Transcripts For CSPAN2 After Words Kellyanne Conway Heres The Deal 20221007

An author political strategies for decades you have been a pollster to our political leaders. Our corporately does nonprofits you have been in the limelight in the spotlight, but all of a sudden you decided to write a book what prompted you to tell you a story and you missed something in my bio big fan of donna brazil. Thank you for interviewing me today. So this is my memoir which seems a little bit odd at 55 because god willing i have decades of life left donna. Yes, but people are always interested in the story behind the stories say, where did you come from . Did you go up in a political household was your father political was your mother running for office . What was it . Like what inspires you to be . How did you learn to say all that stuff on tv . And what is donald trump really like how was it to work in the white house as a woman for a President Trump, so i try to answer all of that and more and i felt ironically as somebody has spoken as you have donna brazil millions of words it public. I felt that people were speaking on behalf of me or at me or about me and not really knowing me or and or i was speaking on behalf of other people including a president and a white house and a nation. So it was truly my turn in some in some instances to set the record straight and others to really just pull the curtain back not just on the Trump White House because this is not a tellall and bore most like so many of these other books. This is really my story and in some ways. Its a very unique story about the circuitous path being raised by a single mom and a house of all Italian Catholic women going all the way to the white house being a working mom before School Age Children all the while. Im doing that job, but in other ways, its really an everyday story. Its every girl and woman story in this country because it does show that still if you have faith if you listen to the people around you if youre willing to say yes and accept no as your career unfolds if you put family first and you allow Everything Else to old around that and you get a little lucky as i have all along great things can happen. So you are raised as a jersey girl southern jersey between philadelphia atlantic city. I believe atco very good go as you mentioned catholic family with italian irish italian roots, but your mother diane was a very special was a very special woman. I should say. Special in the sense that she took good care of you. She understood your needs she supported you she was a working mom. But there was a early on in the book you talked about that moment when your mother caught you saying a couple of bad words and she walked in and she put that big gold cross and she had managed you. What was it like to grow up not just what a single mom, but also growing in a family with with your aunts and your grandmother. I mean, what was that like donna thankfully my mother is still with us diane she lives with us and shes a great everyday present force in the life of our four children, which is amazing. You know, my mother was a original forgotten woman and i think President Trump talked about many years later. She was forgotten by feminism forgotten by her husband left at the age of 26. No child support. No alimony for us and she just dusted herself off like so Many American women have and figured it out went back to work never thought she would with her High School Diploma. Wanted to be a stayathome. Mom of six or seven. Im an only child so life got it. Life happened and her best laid plans didnt work out so she figured out another way. And she really devoted her life to me never remarried. Never had other children and in making me the center of her life. Thought it would be best for both of us to move back to the Old Homestead with her mother and to her mothers unmarried sisters. So i always say these four adult women and one child and then we turn the pyramid upside down. Its like one woman and four children now and so my mother in devoting her life to me gave me a great example. Of what it means to be committed to be loyal and to have faith family and freedom. I dont remember her ever having a political conversation that i can recall, but she voted it was her civic duty her constitutional right . She just missed the ability to vote for president. John f kennedy. She wasnt old enough just as i just missed voting for president Ronald Reagan, but i know that they were all inspired by this handsome young camelot catholic president. Tragically taken from us too young but there was my mother one day with my best friend michelle. I was visiting we were freshman in high school and it wasnt i said a few bad words. It was that i violated. One of the Ten Commandments is that i took gods name in vain. Yes, and she came around the corner with the gold crucifix off her neck and with a spoon the ladle and the pot of gravy as we call it tomato sauce to the rest of the world. What did you say and i said, i dont know. What did i say, dont you ever take gods name and then out of her mouth this wonderfully gentle woman with the gold crucifix shining out of my mothers mouth where f bombs and f bombs, you said dont you ever take gods name in me again . So it tells you an awful lot about i think in some ways how progressive the women who raised me were ironically they talked about abortion adultery. They talked about inflation. They talked about everything you can imagine except politics and because the matriarch of our extended family my grandmother and two in it lived in that house. That swing screen door had just a flotilla of constant traffic of people who knew if they had a problem or just needed a warm meal or an open ear they they can come there and do exactly that and so i grew up. I think that georges often told me that the world is like your focus group and i think it started right there around that wooden table and little atco new jersey where i would sit underneath and listen to adult conversation the gift of my professional life. For decades donna was going out literally around the country and listening to people night after night around larger wooden tables like this and focus groups and learning to appreciate the essential wisdom of americans and no they werent all just republicans or conservatives. I was talking to i was deeply interested in what everybody had to say this story what motivates in their stories, theyre frustrations their aspirations and you know, as well as i do. That the essential wisdom of americans is often lost on people in this town in washington dc and if we put them in charge of representing their their states their congressional districts, they would do a pretty solid job. They have thought this through again and again, and we should all be listening more to them. Echo was a small town. I think you lived off the highway, which i was interested in knowing a little bit more about so i had to google your town but as i got deep into the first couple of chapters about your childhood and growing up and and that environment i learned something that i didnt know about you that you pick blueberries, right . I packed blueberries in the packing shed you you packed and yes they pack them which meant that there are 12 planes in a crate and we would take out each pint put a piece of cellophane a forum to smash it down and then a rubber band and i was the fastest that i had ever been because we were told the fast you were the more you get paid but the pay was as follows. It was 16 cents a crate. So 16 cents for 12 pints packed and then by the time i left eight summers later don, it was 25 cents, but i made a few thousand dollars back in the day ages 12 to 19 packing blueberries, and that was legal. Then everybody calmed down. Its been outsourced now to machines do that work now, yes, but to grow up and literally have a summer job as a teenager where you have to show up and be ready to go by 8 am work until four or five pm an hour break for lunch with your friends and your family members to appreciate the value of teamwork punctuality a work ethic pride in your work that youre not just there for the money or there because youre making a difference for someone somehow i credit that Blueberry Farm for an early Early Education on what it means to be a hard worker that plus i grew up around Small Business owners my aunt and uncle had a roadside farm market 30 yards. To my house then it expanded into frozen italian Food Specialties because they would feed people who came to buy a buck a creative blueberries or a bucket of peaches. They say, what do i smell . Oh sit down have some brazil have some subways you just made fresh ravioli and people would encourage them. So thats america you said let me take my skill set. And expand that into a commercially profitable business, so i grew up around Small Business owners and entrepreneurs my mom took jobs. That allowed her to be with me in the mornings before school. Pick me up after school and and i just credit her for day after day showing me the value of of work of hard work and honest days wages for an honestys work and thats really the backbone of this country. Yes, but soon kellyanne would discover that there was life outside of southern, new jersey and you decided to come the washington dc to attend College Trinity college. Tell us about that experience and that drive down and and that first moment that that you arrived here. What what caught you what what made you decide the dc was to place to be so my parents did not go to college again. I think fairly typical for somebody maybe of my age and stage in that area and my mother drove me down here herself, and i know it was very hard for her to just leave for only child in washington dc in the storm. Im sure she cried the whole way home. Thank you, mommy for allowing me to spread my wings and do that. I really wanted to be in washington dc. I wanted to be a car ride away from home three hour car ride. I had been accepted at Boston College and it was the year after. Doug flutie won the Heisman Trophy and the applications were way up. We went to see Boston College lovely campus fabulous school, of course, but i really wanted to be in washington dc. I thought even early on i had this a little bit smitten and bitten by the political bug donna and i think a lot of that had to do with meeting Ronald Reagan very briefly, but you were just being in his company ferraro. Thats i wrote that i said, wait a minute you you were excited about Geraldine Ferraro until you met Ronald Reagan. I was indeed, so just to back up this a summer of 1984. Youll remember it. Well, yes, and its the republican and Democratic National conventions are going on now the democrats my party out of power. And i was so enthralled with geraldine for i thought well there she is just like the women who raised me in Italian Catholic woman. She was a congresswoman from queens walter mondell the democratic nominee tapped her and shes going to give her prime time speech and accept that nomination as the first woman ever on a Major Party Ticket and i listened to her and i thought she was a great messenger, but the message really didnt grip me the way president reagans message the next week at his convention with me. Peace through strength calling out communism. I think he just had a very joyful way of communicating free market capitalism of communicating why its important to invest in military strength why its important to going back to an honest days wage for an honestly you were attracted to this message or we were you attractive to the fact that you had a sense that he could lead his instincts. What was it . Oh, he was both of the above and indeed. There was a big sweep that election cycle. I mean, obviously he won every every state including geraldine. Ferrars new york. He went every state except walter mondales minnesota in the district of columbia, but i got to meet him because at that time republican president ial candidate seoul new jersey is competitive and they came and campaign and here is Ronald Reagan and hammonton, new jersey in september 1984. It was code captain of the Field Hockey Team is a senior and i had been blueberry princess, so i got to meet him. It was only a brief encounter, but you know how that goes and youre hooked, and i know you know that because you have you been the counselor the consultant for the advisor for so many strong leaders in your party, but across this country, and i know now you mentor so many young people and so youve seen on both sides and we have to remind ourselves that those chance encounters can be so incredibly important to people and it was to me but you grew up and before we get into candidates and theres so much in your book that ive learned about not just the Republican Party, but also some of the individuals that you consulted with i mean, it was a very well balanced book in terms of telling us about not just your journey, but also to journey of the Republican Party, so i want to go back to that moment you lived in an area of with democrats. Yes. Definitely. Were probably raised being catholic in new jersey with a lot of democrats. I was but in Ronald Reagan you saw Something Else a lot of other democrats so that but at the time you were not registered to vote right . I was not registered to vote i missed voting for Ronald Reagan by two and a half months. Thats right because youre born in january 20th, and thats right being able to vote for him. I was still 17 for his reelection. Youre absolutely right the first words in my entire book. Heres the deal donna, you know, by every imaginable metric. I should have been a democrat and liberal and a feminist and probably a man hater too. My father left the men in my life my uncles my cousins. They expanded family members all these great male role models in my life who stepped in and and stepped up for me. They pretty much were all members of the private trades carpenters and welders and iron workers plumbers and who you know graduated high school with their skill certificate and their High School Diploma went to work right away and have had those jobs for decades being able to support themselves and their families the most wonderful people so, you know, they tend toward the Democratic Party irish and Italian Catholics at that time. I think, you know not to over generalize. They absolutely had an affinity to the Democratic Party. Obviously john kennedy and it was the height of feminism. No fault divorce rover versus wade, so i talk about that and Ronald Reagan not on like many other people in my generation inspired me with a very optimistic i also felt he wasnt fall toward other people. He was very inclusive in his words and i grew up in a house where people came through that back during my aunt marie. God rest her soul for whom quality is named claudia marie. Shes my mothers oldest sister the only one to ever go to college and a big mentor. My life died suddenly at the age of 66 20 years ago, and its a huge loss for our family, but she packed so much life and i just told my kids, you know, heres a woman you never met always ready for the next adventure always off key singing and dancing with gusto the way you should with abandon, but she was very progressive. She was an eighth Grade Public School math teacher and she had run the Family Business and she got mad at the George Herbert walker Bush Campaign and him in 1992 for saying that and bill clinton was a draft dodger. She said in vietnam. She said well if that were my nephew, i would drive him to can i would help him get out of that. She i believe she was prochoice. She was you know, shes sort of a feminist icon in the way. She was very vocal. Yes, and and yet so i had every sign and she had you know, she would bring friends over of all backgrounds and all affiliations and you know looking back. We didnt know that people felt comfortable to be in my house and nobody felt the need to say and im this on that they just all felt comfortable and welcome. I love growing up that way because i tell young people now down at the very worried about not being able to speak up or not being able to say who they really are that goes for right left and center in many places and spaces. I tell them listen. Well god hath made no man, or woman can ever cancel you hold your head high and you be who you are and you be proud of that and you make sure that you let your light shine down ever let anybody dim or diminish your light. I learned that in that house. I didnt learn in any book or any any conversation your family had such a well they were role models, but more importantly they were your friends. I got to know your family by reading the way you guys would drive the three hours down the washington dc packed. It just reminded me of my family. Maybe its something catholic about us that you always have to, you know, make your own sandwiches and and bring you on food. Is that the people in the next town didnt cook as well and i love that. I say, my mother would have loved your your mother and your grandmothers, but i want to talk about you. Youre in washington dc. Youre clearly becoming more and more interested in politics of public service, but it wasnt until you went to law school and graduated that you really got into poland you met frank lance whos another friend of mine bill worth lynn neil you you got into the business, but i kept reading reading and reading and im like was all men someone to my own background that when i finally got to washington dc. I had paul tully. I had all of the guys but there were no women there. No women no women at the table. What was it like for you on the republican side being the only woman in the room, especially at that age just starting your career where you have a discourage that you ever just want to just walk stand up and walk out. I read in a book that you were very patient, but god knows im sure theres some there were some days that you just wanted to walk out. Theres no question about that and there were many days that the men in the room would have preferred i walk out of it. No, yeah there and thats why you cant if you know your skill set and you know who you are and that youve got something to add to the conversation and to the consideration to the analysis then you do that i learned early on that. I had some gifts and some insights that maybe others did not just because im a woman but because i was listening to women and there i was as an unmarried. Nonmother as many women are and choose to be in this country for many many years. I got married at 34. I had my first children at 37. I had charlotte and vanessa in my 40s. I say, oh there are no eggs left in your 40s. I said, well there were two rolling around in there the names of charlotte and vanessa, but thats really thats the growing percentage of women in this country too. The point is because i learned to listen to women specifically i was able to draw on that in these different conversations and tables that only included men and i started to do that and because so many those men in the old and particularly the new boys network. Were excluding me from being able to pitch certain business at the Republican National committee or in this company or that company it forced me to go and find work elsewhere. So i had major clients like Martha Stewart living on the media or Major League Baseball or American Express at the time major clients, and that allowed me to listen not just to what likely voters were saying but to what all of america was doing are you making your decisions of how you spend your time . How you spend your money . You show me what you do in a weekend. Are you going to a professional sporting event a kids sporting event . Are you as i was a woman who doesnt have children of her own. I guarantee you a woman like that because you and i have been there are spoiling the heck out of other peoples kids given them some money given them a lot of guidance and mentorship and life lessons. So i learned to not put people in these neat demographic political boxes either so sure we can all slice and dice the electorate by gender by race by age by political affiliation by associate economic status by geography, but thats not the beginning or the end of the story for any of us. You let people tell you who they are and what motivates them and you you learn to appreciate so sure there were many times but you know cnn plucked me out of wilderness and gave me a tv contract. Yeah, i want and it transformed as you know, it transformed my relationship with america and with a lot of washington because no longer could the guy say doesnt know that much shes you know, shes she is not going to show up. Is she is she a tv star . She really a poster all of a sudden senators in canada are saying i saw you on cnn, thats a great point about how tax is affect Kitchen Table economics. You know, i i said you did a lot of things in life before becoming a pun debt with and i love the way you spell the p u n d e t t e i had to i wrote that down punditry without the talking points. Being a being a political talking head we used to call ourselves talking heads before they gave us an actual title pundit, but you were effective and and that role because you had an opportunity not only to talk to the country, but also listen. But i also believe you impressed a lot of people within the republican establishment. What did you give the republican establishment that they did not have at that time, and i thought when you described it in a book about what you brought to the table, it was something that would lead you eventually to become an Donald Trumps Campaign Manager as well as the first the first republican woman ever manage a campaign, but also the first woman to win a major president ial campaign you had something and i want you to say it because i know what it is because i often whenever you and i were on tv together. I will look at you and i say huh . Okay, i get it now. Two things they call me sally soundbite. I think its my ability to distill complex information into simple easy to understand phrases and ideasmith and word smith, and and i hone that skill at my 8 an hour job at the worth in group. Ronald reagans pollster and then for franklins not much more than eight dollars an hour. Love you frank, but and you know, he really i credit franklins with really giving me my great opportunities to get back into polling after i had a law degree, but donna i had Something Else that i brought to the table the men which was they all talk like pollsters they all talk like people have data what do the day to mean and even over the decades of having my own polling companies. I would say to my team. Okay, thats the data when youre writing the analysis stop every two paragraphs and ask yourself. So what what does it mean . How do we communicate it to people . What are they telling us . Ill give you a great example. I saw. And erase that you were the Campaign Manager i saw early on in 1997. I believe it was or even 1997 or so this ridiculous ridiculous polling question. That asked. Which of the following would you vote for president . Al gore or George W Bush . Now 19 the summer 1997 is closer to the 1996 election and the 2000 election. Why are you asking people this and how do you know who the candidates are going to be and the answers at the time were 48 and 47 and of course everybody goes on tv and says, oh my god, its tighter than a tick gore and bush are both under 50 its at one point race because you didnt have your calculator that day. You dont know 48 minus 47 is 1 and i looked at totally different. I said, come on. You telling me in 1997 or 1998 that only 5 of the countries undecided 48 plus 47 equals 95. I thought 5 of the goren bush families were still in decided let alone the rest of us, i learned to respect. When people say i dont know im not sure. I need to know more information. Thats a rich insight most of the mail posters were never willing to take. I dont know for an answer. They say well which way do you lean . I dont well which way if you had a guess if you had to say right now and eventually you just surrender you say okay, eileen gore eileen bush. Thats youre not a committed voter. Youre somebody who was right the first time. I dont know. I need to suss it out and watch for the next couple of years. So i learned to appreciate and make people feel comfortable to say, i dont know. Is this a quiz . Its not a quiz. Its your opinion your opinion matters because you matter and the last thing is i was able to distill republicans would say to me. How do we get more women and i go through this long war and peace and i thought you know what . I hadnt need an elevator pitch as well and i say, you know what women tend to think more republican more conservatively when they get marriage motherhood mortgages mutual funds and then one day i realized and then i had a longer version for it and then one day i realized well, i have a mortgage. An imusual fund i dont have a marriage or mother and then i realize wait a second women are choosing which of the four ends one two, three four zero whatever it is that they want to do in whatever sequence and then i started to realize that women are product of their choice is not victim of their circumstances that we should be holding them up and you know, respectfully i thought at the time the democrats were always back, you know, putting republicans in a corner on just abortion. I said, excuse me women we women dont talk to us just from the waist down. You got to talk to us from the waste up. Thats where our brains ears eyes heart and mouths are and i would do clever things like that as well that would outrage some people and engage other people, you know, i engage some and rage others, but at least it was memorable, but you were all so telling the country the story of women women were evolving and as women voters became more and more active in the electorate as as vote is after the year. Thats so called a woman in 1992. I think you were one of a posters and and tv know this who got it right about the needs of women and why they were making the choices in the electorate. So lets talk about a choice you made and i kept reading them like, i mean, i know theres a george wheres george . Wheres george didnt come into your life until you and your 30s. Yes introduced to you by ann coulter. I cracked up because ive known and for a long time. Ive known matt drudge some of the people you mentioned in the book. Of course. I know i didnt know there relationship to you and i had no idea that in persistent on trying to get you to meet george and finally you decided you would take a day off not a weekend off and go to the hamptons where he had rented a house he has so tell us a story of George Conway so i of course dated a guy named Earl Fernandez for the better part of a decade on and off, but and also i meant hes a great mentor of mine. He was my immediate boss when i was an intern and jack caps Congressional Office and rolled to this moment is a very dear friend of mine. Hes happily married to a wonderful woman have three great kids, but he was a great mentor of mine. So i really wasnt interested in dating. I was focused on my business my welsh corgi jesse. Yes running i taken up running and had talked to at the time with Chris Matthews who we both know. Well, he said, you know, how do you keep your weight down . I see the only thing ever helped me was running. So anyway, i was disinterested. I didnt want to date anybody. I always said to my friends, its not them, its me. Im sure theyre nice, but i am persistent and she introduced us i drove up from new york city to quague. Thats a beautiful hamlet in the hamptons. George was renting a house that august of 1999, and we finally met were supposed to meet in january of 1998 and didnt so 19 months later. I certainly was still available. I was in dating and luckily george was or was again, and i call it intrigue at first sight. I thought he was very curious and mysterious and i enjoyed his company, but you know george then persisted. I thought what was different about him was that he he came up with charming ways to court me and he wanted to come to wash and eat it fancy rush. I was like good god i did that all week long with clients. I just want to sit here and pet this welsh corgi watching this crazy movie eating out of my ben jerrys containers, but then he wanted to go to sports sporting events. Im a big as you are a big sports, but helped me to really bond with the men in my life as i was growing up. My uncles later my father my cousin jay certainly and so george and i would court at Yankee Stadium and he had tickets in the neighborhood world series tickets, and then we went to eagles games so we fell in love and and we married we fell in love and we got engaged about a year later for two minutes later got married six months after that and you know, weve been married for 21 years and people really focus on the parts of the book. George is the tweeter donald trump is a tweeter george and whats happened now me thanking him at the end of the book for his love bringing me to marriage and motherhood, but me also saying i just dont know what happened. Ill never understand. I have consternation some frustration. Were real constellations sadness that i feel i was, you know traded in for twitter, but george and i we spent a lot of years together building our family very much in love as as a great couple and also just staying out of the public. I believe it or not like sure ive been on tv here and there but we werent household names we werent well known theyre Kellyanne Conway was a house owner named kelly and conways husband was in a household name and so all that changed almost immediately and ill tell you this donna you could not find many pictures of us and our kids online anywhere. Ive never been on instagram. Ive never been on facebook. I dont regard to those who are thats a wonderful way to communicate but i never aspire to be an instagram. Mom whos showing the world how happy we are we just the end and so its all been very jarring in that way. But you know, we we also i think george and i separately had focused on our careers. We got married. I was 34. He was 37 all four of our children were born while george was in his 40. So were older wiser parents and im grateful for all that a lot of the book meant a lot of times i mean, first of all, i dont know george, but i follow him on twitter. Im one of his followers. I didnt know george. Ive known you for a long time, but i never got to know george. I know there was a george because it was killing in fitzpatrick and then she became kellying conway. So something happened clearly. Thats something was george. So i got the back story on George George also went to a law school. Hes a lawyer like kelly and conway. He worked at a very prestigious firm. He was a partner. He was wealthy and well off, but youre also wealthy and well off. What a Beautiful Life in virginia while he had a Beautiful Life in new york sports sort of brought you two together. First of all, i was a little jealous of all the games. She went to im not gonna talk about that. But seriously, i mean the man took you to all of the best games and that just the world series, but the super bowl i mean, come on he has good taste. Yes, and he treated you very well. But this is also in addition, you know, youre married youre in love, but im reading about the the pregnancy but the twins right . Ive never been pregnant but here george throws a party and then announce that i yeah a mothers day that you two were expecting twins how and then he was in the hospital he was with you at every birthplace a barely made it at the last birth. I mean you guys barely maybe you wanted to get to new york, but this is your friend your husband your person your your confidant and you know, its its a little painful as an outside. Im never involving anyones marriage. Thank god, but im reading your book and its it gets really personal. Yes. Its its so much of it. Its a loving nostalgic. Look backward at george and mind life together. Theres no question and those were great times. Obviously, he was by my side and very funny stories donna. First of all, thanks for actually reading the book, you know, some people interview me, and they asked me questions that they could have asked me without a book a 500 page memoir or that suggested me. They havent even cracked it open. So i appreciate you reading it. So yes, i mean this is this is a love story and a family that has nothing to do with twitter and thats what george became famous and as Kellyanne Conways husband on twitter and now i guess on tv occasionally on tv and look i just want to make very clear georges vows are not to donald trump or any Political Party or there. They were to me to love honor and cherish, but we moved to washington dc as a couple as a family both having accepted big jobs from President Donald Trump and people seem to want to forget that or never know it or gloss it over. Its very important part of the story of george kelly. You tell the story. I mean look and i really should get to the part because should just stop now and say you and i also have another thing in common, which is the reason why i couldnt stop reading a book and that is your exboss like my ex boss called me into a room with nobody in there. Look me and i say, you know, can you run this thing . Can you be my Campaign Manager and you basically say would you think about it you and call me back . Yes. I saw that. I also saw that in the book and im like, oh god, then i wrote on the front page. I had to go back as i as i started to read this book. I really wanted to call you invite you over to sit on my porch in a white rocking chairs drinking one. I saw so much. I will be there. But i cant go i want to go back. Youre right about george. George had a big job, and he declined it. Well, he accepted it and Donald Trumps white house and in his administration. He wanted to be solicitor general. He received the big nomination from President Trump that he did accept and it was for to be the chief of the Civil Division of the department of justice big job. He had started interviewing staff. He went to see his offices. This was not sort of just a conversation and i was the one reluctant to common work in the white house right about in the book first and foremost. Its the kids and moving four kids down to washington dc who at the time were 12 12 eight and seven and it was particularly hard to move in seventh grade at the time, you know, Washington Post reporter said, hey, we see claudius got this change. Org petition. Stop. The comic is moving to washington. Whats out about i said, well claudius brilliant, obviously an objectively brilliant and beautiful i said, but she also is shes also honest about the fact that she like most americans dont change we all pretend we like change in revolution and new things and we go to mcdonalds every night in order number three in the minivan, you know, were creatures of habit, but she also and they said, you know, she doesnt want to go to washington to be known as kelly and conways daughter. So i told her will you cure cancer and ill be known as Claudia Conways mother deal and she probably will one day because shes brilliant like her three siblings, but you know, george is the one who wanted to come to washington come to washington. Donald trump was his way to do Something Different from the law firm retire from there and do something totally different and then he changed his mind about donald trump and i cant just have ruin my kids. We just left. Well, hes a member the Federalist Society remember im pretty sure and was in his blackmail mega person. Yes. Hes in his black maga hat on Election Night crying saying she did it. She did it about his wife and donna i couldnt, you know people i write in the book people say without Kellyanne Conway his Campaign Manager. Donald trump could not have won in 2016 thats debatable, but what well never be in doubt, is that without George Conway encouraging . Need to take my shot as hamilton and eminem tell us all to do. To take my shot in 2016 and say yes to that Campaign Manager manager offer and position that donald trump offered that gave me. I could not have been Campaign Manager that level because george said ill help more with the kids you have to do this. He can actually win with you kellyanne and george had witnessed a lot of the new boys network in the republican consultancy a walking recover violation of folks always giving each other money on the gravy train. He had witnessed many of them denying me and sidelining me and trying to diminish me. He had heard my pitch so many times. So what i would do if i had ever gotten my shot he said here it is take your shot. And and you know, george is the only one i told that night that donald trump offered me the Campaign Manager job and then and then george still was my person all through that campaign through those very fraught days after access hollywood. He said youre not leaving that position. Why would you do that . We dont want hillary to be president. He went to the debates he flew to the las vegas debate 12 days after access hollywood came out took the back, he drove me to trump tower the day that i was the only woman in the room at trump tower in the residents after the access Hollywood Tape came back. He drove me back the next days. I boarded the the black suv with Donald Melania trump to go to st. Louis. So he was all in and he was all in not just for his wife, but for donald trump as president now he changed his mind but not after a full year of visiting the white house as a guest at Donald Melania trump. Im doing cool things with his kids there. We went to dinner at jared and ivanka kushners house a whole year later. Thats all fine. But the facts matter the facts matter and you know, what donna i just do not choose to live my life online. I choose my life to live my life offline, and i dont think people who dont know you on social media are necessarily your friends. I mean lots of them want to be your enemy, but theyre not your friends and i just i just take for my friends and my family offline and thank god, you know, ive got a great a great policy of them, you know, we more and more deeper into this conversation about the tweet and george and and the former president referring to him is you know, mr. Kellyanne conway. I mean theres a lot there that i didnt know you were enduring. Just it must it must be gratifying that youre away from. Some of that stress but its also still public. The tweets um george calling the president narcissistic and youre working for the president. You have to get up every day and get to work and your colleagues must be what snickering behind your back. Im sorry for me face. Summer snickering and some werent working overtime to get the president to get rid of me to bounce me from the white house. I give donald trump a ton of credit President Trump for not ever coming to me which he could have and saying kellyanne. We love you. You always be part of this extended political family, but i gotta worry about kim jongun and vladimir putin. I cant worry about George Conway tweets in part because he wasnt worried about George Conley suites. He was being the president. He mentioned george to me probably three times. Specifically and frankly when you quote the president about george that was also very sparing as opposed to georgia send over 100,000 tweets and counting 100,000. I think when President Trump left the white house, it was about 20 or 30,000 is certainly wasnt 100,000 and hes still at it and this is a free country and george can tweet if he wants but theres a cost to spending your time a certain way and you know, i choose not to spend my time that way i dont want to i dont want to regret living so much in my life online at now. Let alone with these four kids alone later, but but look its a hell of a way to try to get your wife. Lets always love george but madonna, so can you all men its a hell of a way to try to get your wife to leave her job to try to force her out of her job. You think he did it to get attention to get you home . I think he did it to get attention and he got attention, but people should not confuse, you know popularity of notoriety. Youre fame with infamy. George changes mind about donald trump, i guess change his mind about me and and what the media did was what i wasnt really ready for and i write in the book about is sort of the cult of George Conway, you know, all these wine nonmoms sending goofy packages to our house as if they know him youre weird and thanks for the dark chocolate folks like dana bash and others to actually why i dont know what the time if it was fair because that was a particularly newsy week and i like donna a lot. Shes a friend and i respect her work. Shes another one like you and me whos, you know, just she i think she started as an intern at cnn practically runs the place i think is one of the best people the best reporters there, but donna, you know, i dont know that it was fair because it was a very newsy week and it was a cheap shot and i didnt ask dan about either of her marriages or her, you know, i im sensitive to the fact that her son jonah may be watching so i dont say certain things and i wouldnt do that but look all of this comes back to a very simple principle we should be looking out for each other at some level and no i dont think every question is fair game. I dont and i think people dissecting me my hair my looks my voice my marriage my child. Its its inappropriate at some level because youre distracting from me from you distracting from the news of the day, too. I dont think my marriage. Is anybody elses business and its usually being just dissected by thin skin terrified trouble People Living in glass houses. Have you noticed i also think theres this unspoken pact among civilized people that we look out for each others kids. You know, i know you do. I know you do you need to be a mother to care about peoples kids. Its not even its not even an affirmative criterion in my book. I give huge shout outs to the nonmoms out there who i know were spoiling other peoples kids, but donna i need to say because i dont know how close we are to being at the end of this interview people who are watching this need to know how i feel about you. I wanted you to interview me because America Needs to see two women at the height of their careers at the tops of their game sitting at this table are 50 is 50 one half of the women who have ever been asked to run a us president ial campaign the other the other two are not here two other democratic women. Were the only ones and i feel like women its a great time to be a woman in american so many ways if you look at the statistics, but whats really missing is that representation not just in politics because thats a choice if people want to run and more and more women are in both parties, but but actually as the practitioners as the people who are in the ears of the folks who are actually going to run the country or want to run the country. I think thats whats incredibly important. I want to know how much i want you to know how much i admire you and also how much i learned from you you Allison Cameron at cnn told me the day after donald trump mimi campaigner said, you know, youre the first woman to ever do this free public. I said, i literally sent a life to you. I didnt know that, you know a third woman ever i said, well i know the other three, but i know donna brazil the best shes a friend of mine, but look you smoothed over a craggly path for me and for a lot of other women and people need to know that i know Joe Biden Donald trump others say lets unify the country. This is how you do it by talking to one another. Yes and by learning from other one another and i think something that you learned when your friends would come and visit you at your home by listening not yelling but listening, but sometimes yelling can be quite entertaining and informative and i learned that about your family too. Trust me you and i should have been neighbors because i would have been over here and with the why i got to tell you in the time we have left and weve got enough time to talk about this the road to 2016 now, its a democrat. I read this one way. Its a political strategist. I really absorbed a whole nother dimension and some i wrote this down on one of my notepads and you basically said voters are really the media is looking for who can win. Im paraphrasing you but voters want to know who can leave. Yes. Thats a difference between electability, which is this fictional game played by pundits and medium all kinds of media and the politicians themselves. Can you win can she win . Can you win and that question particularly the Republican Party . Has diminished and denied so many great candidates from rising farther. Why because if you ask who can win . Youre missing the question that voters ask which is who can leave and their definitely definition leadership has nothing to do with political viability has to do with where are you in the economy . Were in national security. What are you going to do about education healthcare . Do you hear me . And will that be part of your plan and your governance . So i told donald trump on august 12 2016 when he offered me the campaign managing job. He said can you do this . And i said mr. Trump, i would need three things in return. I wasnt sure he would give me any of them. Let alone all three because no one ever had and he agreed to all them immediately because hes a smart savvy business guy who makes crack decisions like that. He knows, you know when to take a risk and where the reward is and one of the things i asked him was we need to shift away from electability, which youve already blown to smithereens because everybody said you cant win you cant win you cant win and focus on Electoral College focus on Electoral College, which is how you do or dont win the presidency and he agreed to that immediately and was willing to take that and go to states and cities and states that were definitely part of hillarys blue wall that republicans had not once since 1988 1994, pennsylvania, michigan responses. Now, whats going to ask you about . How did you understand the blue wall you also again going back to what ive learned in this book the hidden trump voter that we didnt see you did crack the blue wall. And then also this whole notion that you figured out that the Republican Party at least was frustrated with the status quo with the establishment and you you took key messages from both the tea party and the Mega Movement to understand that donald trump would not just have a campaign. But a movement thats a lot to put and one question but heres the question. What gave you those insights . You . Tell us a little bit in a book, but there are some things that i want to know that sauce because you talked about that sauce and defeating Hillary Clinton you and again i thought these insights in my judgment as a political strategist tells us something about the electorate. Were going to face in 2022 and 2024. So what was that hidden sauce . Why was trump the perfect messenger . And why is that movement here to stay all excellent questions wrapped into one. Wow, so very quickly 2016 witnessed the convergence of a couple of factors that helped donald trump get elected president one was him his messenger and elevating into the public consciousness to the top of the issue set. Issues like illegal immigration and trade which had been nowhere on the radar particularly trade if you think about a guy standing up and saying were going to take on china theyre eating our lunch and were going to recalibrate these trade deals and make them more fair to the american worker. Were going to put America First by making sure we have a Manufacturing Base by making sure that were not shipping our jobs in wealth legally overseas by making sure that mexico and canada and the United States have a modernized fair trade deal and so other people really want to touch that donna because its not high in the polls. It doesnt make you electable. So he was willing to do that number two. President trump was a true political outsider. Most americans see themselves as true political outsiders. Theyre not part of the system, which means theyre not part of the sclerosis in the system either and he had in Hillary Clinton. I think a fairly damaged candidate. Thats not a personal insult. Im saying she had lost to president obama eight years later because he was seen as the outsider fresh face, new blood new ideas was able to stand up and say i was against the war in iraq you voted for and some other things and so she was seen eight years earlier as the establishment and went out of her way in 2016 to basically say well, that just means i have experience. Im now im now ive been secretary of state and ive but i noticed in the Washington Post abc news poll and told president told mr. Trump the day maybe Campaign Manager her blue wall is penetrable if youre willing to go visit the states that are in her blue wall and he was a day in and day out and also recognize that 62. And the abc news Washington Post poll say that they find that Hillary Clinton is neither trustworthy nor honest if you feel that way about a president ial candidate what can possibly follow the but im going to vote for her, but i want her to be commander in chief and the president United States. So what i told him was if we can make this election a little bit more about hillary at least even it out because at that moment the election was about trump all about and he liked that way and hillary sure the heck liked it that way so we tried to even it out a little bit and remind people when you go into that ballot box, its not gonna say trump or not trump its going which many people saw it in 2020 is trump. Were not trump by the way true, but i also coined the term in july of 2016 the undercover hidden trump voter. I said it to the equivalent of nbc. I think its channel 4 so in london, and it was to international ridicule. Oh the hidden trunk border will still be hidden on election day, but that was my way of explaining that people who dont seem or look to users as would be trump voters or nonhillary voters are going to vote for donald trump. They want to voted for mitt romney or maybe jeb bush or maybe even ted cruz or john mccain. Certainly. Theyre going to vote for theyre going to vote for donald trump because he truly is the political outsider who comes preverified as a job creator and businessman whos making these promises and is showing up in your community. Why did i say . Well, i noticed Something Else trump was doing that when he would campaigned on it in every nook and cranny in this country. He would give local interviews the National Media missed it. They were already in their media chorale saying how long is it going to take him to say fake news and make fun of me me, right . He was in the back giving interviews to local print radio and tv reporters meaning if you lived in that community if you were in waukesha, wisconsin if youre in macomb county, michigan, youre gonna have interviews with him to get you through the week. So so i think they miss that. And what i noticed was he was willing to take his message directly to the people and the people were showing up. So he really transformed the way political campaigning happens. It definitely got cut off in 2020 because covid of course prevented him from doing a lot of that type of campaigning, but when i said the undercover hidden trump voter, its not people feeling theyre embarrassed to say they vote for donald trump. Its hispanics and African Americans and women and young people and and people who had never voted or hadnt voted in a long time or never would have Republican Union members for sure, you know here in certain states not majorities, but 3 more here 5 more. There are seven percent were there and that was building a coalition of folks who said you know what i think ive had enough now, i think without the i think without the country voting for president obama in 2008. They took a huge chance on somebody different this certainly they elected the first africanamerican president , but even beyond that milestone was the fundamental chance that people took on somebody who really didnt have a ton of experience in washington. They were willing to do it and then did it again now . They reverted right back to the guy joe biden whos been in washington for 50 years and most of the polls will tell you that people feel to date. That was not a very fruitful indeed. Its been a failed experiment so i will know more about that and after the midterms but in those four years with donald trump, you were in a lot of important meetings discussions. I read about bringing your kids to the white house the kind of fun enjoy that your family would have but i dont want to talk about the White House Events there a lot there and im sure they they had a great time. You were there during some momentous. I mean some big moments. Big occasions and he relied on your voice your leadership. What could you have done differently . Unless use one or two examples. We know that the president celebrated the tax cuts, but he probably didnt like the returns on during the midterms in 2018. We know covid hit during this moment. So what looking back at your experience in the white house . What would you have done differently . What would you have tried to change in terms of and you describe a lot of it in a book and god knows . I can like i say covid threat there were so many things you had to deal with. There were when i remember most and admits all that there were supinas and investigations in russia collusion. I mean a lot of logs thrown in our policy path and just trying to you know forge ahead and focus on the commitment he made to the people and i believe that in this first few years particularly before covid when you see the economy that was rebuilt the Energy Independency Unemployment Rate being the lowest ever for African Americans hispanic americans Asian Americans women. I felt that it was a it was a White House Administration Trump Pence Administration donna that helped the job creator the job seeker, but also the job holder, which is always been in my sites, you know people talk about oh, you didnt build that job creator entrepreneurs, thats fine. But thats what 7 of the country and then maybe seven percent lower now people who are job seekers, but the vast majority of american households are the job holders and thats how donald trump got elected and his commitment was to say to them. Hey you youre not even looking. Job, or worrying about replacing lost job, but we have two three jobs in the house. It doesnt feel like enough. How did that happen . So really trying to relieve the burden on the cost of Energy Regulation Small Business formation and thriving and certainly the economy and i also think the president , you know trying to hold china to account or iran to a count or kim jong unto just trying things other people werent trying the Great Strides he made on the drug crisis he in first lady melania trump, who is his original counselor to the president. The one person i say in the book that he actually reserves fear about he confides and and consults us, but he fears harry cares very much what she thinks and so an amazing relationship to hold really and so what i would have done differently i thought about this i wasnt involved in his 2020 Reelection Campaign and all 1. 4 billion dollars. They should have won overwhelmingly and outright to the point where nobody even has to question the election results. It should have been more reagan 84 frankly, then its then then what it was you felt you were pushed out a little bit. I felt that look i was offered late in the game my own plane my own staff leave the white house. I was told its going to be don jr. Ivanka the Vice President and you who have your own team and i did i did not do that because it wasnt my campaign and i was already leaving i was about to leave for my family and that was not going to change i couldnt shift over from the job of senior counselor the president that i love to go and actively campaign, but one thing that i think should have been done differently. I think that campaign should have been more reflective of what the president was able to accomplish including on covid instead of hoping and pretending that the economy is going to come in as the big issue recognize that women particularly as a chief health care offic. A households distant proportionally a majority of the Health Care Consumers and providers were very nervous about covid. The kids were home from school. The women were pushed out of the workforce. Particularly. Even the men if there were men in the household. They were home working from home. So it really transformed the country and people were not just frustrated. They were worried and i felt that with the president was doing early on with covid that the surgeon supplies the ppp the ppe the gowns the masks the covering 100 of the cost for testing and then treatment for uninsured americans the supply 95 million meals to School Children who rely upon them, but were in school to receive them. I mean so many great things that your viewers are going to hear about this first time from me not standing up and saying that and doing that and sticking with it and i think too many people at covid on an egg timer. Okay, were done with that now, you know the virus a way of persisting but i think donald trump, you know. Developing therapeutics and vaccines and record time is one of his greatest accomplishments along without taking with taking out soleimani and maybe i should have spoken up a little bit more about i think that behind the scenes friction, you know, i dont like to be the whiny woman like, oh they dont have me in this mean or oh theyre ignoring this great work stream that somebody has put together not me. Somebody else is put together over a series of months. You should really look at i think it was a lot of gamesmanship that way so and i know kelly and in the time we had we could not really talk about the media some of the controversies and you you and i both know that if you are out here in the public youre going to make news and you have been a news maker. Youre a troublemaker too, but were not going to talk about the personalities in the white house. Thank you for confirming what i thought you know, whats the truth about certain of your colleagues and ill leave them nameless and also you know as you begin to put the end of this book, which was really remarkable. Because of your journey the moments the final moments, which your dad in the hospital talking about sports the eagles. Um talking about your upbringing and the final months you really describe a period of hell and as i was finishing up the book. It led to january 6 it let it led to another encounter or a lunch or dinner with the president. I forgot if i think it was a lot december 22nd. Yes. It was a lunch. And here we are now. Some two years away from the next president ial election. Were just a few months from the midterm elections. What what gives you hope . So much first of all, this is america. For all of our scars and our battles and our divisions our cultural cleavages our political divisions. Its a beautiful country filled with amazing people. And as i tell my own children. Dont we have to stop worrying about people who have more thanos we have to start wearing more about people have less than us. And that gives me a lot of hope for the future. Im also hopeful that the 74 million americans who voted for trump pence in 2020, and were not at the us capitol in january 6th who like me had nothing to do with that never saw it coming to participate in it are still in shock and not in all not that people should be languishing in in prison in jail not knowing what their fate is. But i am hopeful that this is america and were resilient and we need to be optimistic, but i am very worried that people are suffering right now and theyre suffering. Because of policies that are harming them. If they have an energy job, or if they are relying upon filling up a couple of trucks for their Small Business filling up that gas tank. Im worried that babies right now arent getting infant formula. Im worried about problems big and small and you saw these problems as a senior white house counselor to the president. Yes. So kellyanne. Heres the deal a memoir a very personal a very deeply in my judgment spiritual book about your life your struggle with your family, but also the rise the rise in american politics to lead a win in president ial campaign your guidance advice to the president. And of course your thoughts on the future of america including what happened on january 6, so this is a