of space shuttle endeavour, making its final launch into space. thanks for watching. we will be back tomorrow. gue >> we start with live coverage of a roundtable discussion on cyber security. it is moderated by the chairman of the fcc. participants include industry and government leaders. it gets under way -- underway in 30 minutes. the american enterprise institute host the event. -- hosts the event. >> and a panel discussion on military operations approved by congress under the war powers act. the event includes the former deputy assistant attorney general during the george w. bush administration. that is at 4:00 p.m. on c-span. there is some "book tv" program to tell you about. edmund hull is live and on line at 11:00 a.m. eastern. >> i am newt gingrich. i am announcing my candidacy for president of the united states. i believe we can return america to hope and opportunity. >> with the field of republican presidential hopeful starting to take shape, look back at their careers on line at the c-span video library. search, clip and share. it is what you want when you want it. c-span. we cover american history, politics, and books. by our content anytime 3 c- span's video library. we take c-span on the road with our digital bus and local content vehicle. it is washington your way. the c-span network. it is available in more than 1 million homes. created by cable. provided as a public service. we will have live coverage of a roundtable discussion on small business and cyber security at 10:30 p.m. -- 10:30 a.m. eastern. until then, your phone calls from this morning's "newsmakers ." -- "washington journal." dy, dominique strauss- kahn, the head of the international monetary fund is going to be arraigned today on a charge of sexual assault. he is expected to plead not guilty. the front page of the guardian talks about the debt crisis and the imf chief. after dominique strauss-kahn was arrested and charged with attempting to sexually assault a maid in a hotel, he was taken off of a flight at jfk and police formally arrested him. the charges to create a leadership vacuum at the imf, the overseer of the global economy. this ends the hopes of the french socialist who was favored to beat nicolas sarkozy in next year's french election. we have lots more to go through today in just a minute or two. the debt story is a leader today as well. the treasury is urging action on the debt ceiling. senior officials have issued their starkest warnings yet that if congress does not act quickly to raise the debt limit to avoid a default, investors will punish the country and further damage its fiscal position, certainly in the context of the global recovery, this is something we cannot afford to let happen or let people think will happen. that is the front page of "the financial times." john boehner said everything should be on the table. here is a little bit more of what he had to say on the sunday shows yesterday. >> i am not going to walk away from this moment. we have a window of opportunity to act. if we do not act, the market is going to act for us. our creditors are going to act for us. host: that was john boehner yesterday. president obama has said that failure to raise the debt ceiling might disrupt the global financial system and plunge the nation into another recession. by the way, the "washington post" writes that the treasury is going to tap federal retiree programs to fund operations. urgency toing compromise over the debt. we will talk about that more in about 35-45 minutes. in brentwood, california, we have a republican caller. what is most important to you today? caller: the debt ceiling, perhaps. if something is not done to fundamentally restructure our budget, then our federal social programs will simply cease to exist for the next generation if something is not done now. we have the trustees report this week that said that social security and medicare were going under a lot faster than we had thought before, and yet if you look at the party in power, they have not produced a budget in two years. you know, where is the leadership? host: new gingrich is blasting the house gop medicare plan. he is calling it right wing social engineering. what do you make of that headline? caller: who cares about new? the washington post reported yesterday that hud had found hundreds of housing programs where money has been completely wasted. they are filled with weeds in them according to "the washington post." and the gao on march 31st reported that half a trillion dollars of money was completely just misplaced, just lost. most of that was in 2009-2010, and going forward. no more money for people like this. we do have a revenue problem in this country. our tax revenues are through the floor, property taxes, income. the solution is growth. we have to get some growth going on. host: we want to get some other voices in here. we go to florida and the democrat line. caller: 1, i just got a report that the social security asked the united states government to pay back $2 trillion that they borrowed from social security. second, if you people would stop and think how much money was borrowed from social security and medicare for the iraq war and afghan war, this would tell you the truth about what is going on with social security and medicare. the gentleman the called in before me said it was mr. obama's fault. he has a big problem with social security, medicare, and three wars, i iraq, which is still going on, afghanistan, and now libya. why doesn't anybody stop to think? to buffalo, new york and republican line. what issue is most important to you these days? caller: the issue that is always important is a strong military, a strong economy, and children. at this time, the economy is number one on my list. the guy who called the first time is right. we need some leadership. where is the budget? it is spend, spend, spend. nobody seems to care in this government about our economy and our spending problem. all over europe they are trying to control themselves. even increase, for crying aloud. -- even in greece, for crying out loud. they're trying to control their stuff and they're spending and their economy. the guy who called, he is right. who does care about you? we need some leadership. -- who does care about newt gingrich? we need some leadership. host: we have a caller from chicago. you are getting a new mayor today. caller: yes, we are. we have all of these cuts to all of these sectors, but what about these political salaries? why cannot they be cut? host: all right. this headline talks about palestinian storming into israel. thousands of demonstrators clashed with israeli demonstrators -- israeli forces on sunday. 15 people were killed. if you go to the baltimore sun this morning, you will see the spirit israelis -- you will see this. palestinians killed while crossing the border. the date marked the founding of israel. same photo here. israeli troops fire as marchers reached borders. they say the marchers confronted israeli troops and more than a dozen people were reported killed and scores injured. pennsylvania, democrats. what issue is most important to you this morning? caller: the previous editorial that said the government is now going to tap the federal employees' program. it is so outlandish that it almost appears to be a joke? host: is this the headline you are referring to? caller: yes. host: tell us more. caller: i think the urgency is that the government should stop accepting money from lobbyists. they should just think of the taxpayers as the lobbyists. they should not tax taxpayers any more. they should not put us into any more debt. they should just take money from the people who have it, the millionaires and billionaires, who are not paying their fair share. it is so outlandish that they would now go to the federal employees benefit program. i can think of is that our government is going crazy. that is it. that is really all i have to say. host: a little bit more on the story. treasury secretary geiger has warned for months that the government would soon -- treasury secretary timothy geithner has warned for months that the government would soon reach its debt ceiling. he has already suspended the program that helps state and local governments manage their finances. he will begin to retire -- he will begin to borrow from retirement funds from federal workers. they are legally required to reimburse those funds. democratic line, a chase. caller: we have a spending problem, but the five big oil companies were talking to congress about $2 billion in tax relief. isn't that a spending problem? people are saying that obama- care is not bipartisan, but mitt romney past obama-care in massachusetts. host: speaking of oil, the senate bill that you might want to look up is a bill to repeal tax breaks for these large oil companies. there is no firm agreement to bring this up, but the majority leader says if he can not reach an agreement with senator mcconnell, he might call cloture to proceed with the bill at some point this week. we do expect debate on the floor of the senate. in the meantime, republican line. what is on your mind? caller: ending the drug war. please do not cut me off. you have before. i am a libertarian republican. prohibition of alcohol, when that law went into effect, the murder rate went up 70%. they repealed it, it went down 70%. they passed the drug laws, the murder rates went up 100%. the repeal those laws, the murder rate would be cut in half in this country. it said on the history channel that every police force in the united states spends half their money or more on the drug war. 30% of the prisoners in prison, and over $40 billion a year on the drug war. my stepfather was a state parole officer. he told me year after year, if a parolee told him you could buy drugs in prison from the inmates, but you got a much better deal from the guards. one of the prisons here in indiana checked the guards. 38 different cards came up with illegal drugs in their system. some sold it and did not use it, just for the profit. host: i do not think it is something that would ever happen. caller: the murder rate would be cut in half. marijuana is the number one illegal selling drug in the world. if that were legalized, it would cut the murder rate, because it is the no. 1 seller. to florida.go independent line. what story is most important to you today? caller: what bothers me the most is the way our government is run. it is politicians in both parties. it was not 300 million people that brought this country to its knees. it was big business and wall street. they run the government. host: how has your perspective affected your voting most recently? caller: i voted democrat for obama when he talked about if you were in his administration you have to wait four years before you become a lobbyist. i think that is because of all of our problems. when lobbyists were allowed last year to bring $3.5 billion to congress to buy boats for their constituents, how are we supposed to run this -- buy votes for their constituents, how are we supposed to run this country? i think if we were to tell of bringing any money to congress, i think that would be an immediate -- if we were to outlaw bringing any money to congress, i think that would be an immediate start to ending all of our problems. host: various viewpoints on the stories today, including this one on the economy. president obama tells john boehner no more cuts. u.s. senator john kerry was set to arrive in islamabad sunday with a firm message to uproot terrorism or face losing vital aid. canada is on the line from arkansas, dump -- kenneth is on the line from arkansas, a democrat. caller: yes, i hope you will let me finish what i have to say because this is very important for the american people. there is a case before the united states supreme court. there is a corrupt federal judiciary operating in this country right now. there is a fellow in little rock, arkansas. what he did, he took the case where his wife has a former employee as a defendant in the case and his wife's employer is the attorney in the case, the arkansas attorney general. he took the case and dismissed his wife of the case, and the defendant never made an appearance before the court. the united states supreme court denied a hearing on the matter. they know about this. the united states supreme court knowing about a corrupt federal judge in this country, and we're not doing anything about it. we have a serious problem here in the united states. i am going to file more papers with the united states supreme court, but we should have a federal grand jury looking into this. in georgia, there is the website about nine federal judges that a man is suing right now. he is trying to have a grand jury looking into it. we need to have the justice department look into what is going on, and i am not going to wait. we're not going to give up because we need to clean up this corruption, because when you have the main arbitrator, the referee that will look the other way. when you have a federal judge doing this type of activity, we need to do something about it. host: thank you for your time. dana is calling from cincinnati on the independent line. what is on your mind this morning? caller: i have tried to collin before and never been able to get through. right when i dialed the phone, a guy from california called in and said exactly what i want to say. if we ended this war on drugs, it would solve all of our problems. it would put the cartels out of the -- out of business, health care, etc. etc. host: make is on the line in cincinnati. caller: this thought or theory that the rich do not pay their fair share of taxes is laughable. look at who pays the most tax in this country, the top 1% of the 75% of all they is tax paid. it is just laughable. the only way to get a handle on the debt is to stop the spending. when you have your congress and senators and president of showing -- just throwing the money out there like it is not in their own pocket, it is never going to change, no matter what you change the tax rates to. host: you are saying cut the spending. where exactly would you cut? what would be at the top of your list? caller: entitlement programs. the federal aid to, you know, indians. they pay out some ungodly figure. all of these entitlement programs are just, they are, some of the march as laughable. -- some of them are just laughable. it does not change the standard of living whatsoever. they just did a documentary on that on 60 minutes. they were going around and showing the living conditions that some of these, what they call reservations, and you look at the money that is spent or lobbied for for that, and it is done absolutely nothing to change living conditions. host: much more in the papers this morning. continuing coverage of the raging mississippi. here is a national guard specialist packing dirt into a dam. many are evacuating the head of the flooding. people are told to get out. many in cajun country head to higher ground and prayed for mercy. as we know, it takes many hours, even days for the water to head downstream and hit that 20 feet in a few weeks. deputies warned people sunday to get out as the mississippi river water gushing from a floodgate crept ever closer to communities in louisiana cajun country, filling a river basin like a giant bathtub. also, chicago tribune, rahm emanuel becomes mayor today. his first order is a freeze on spending. the mayor-elect team is exploring options to fill the budget hole. it is expected to grow larger than $587 million next year. on day one, he will put a freeze on everything except paychecks and bills cutting -- bills coming due. we will have some of his speech later today on tape. it happened around 11:00 eastern time. it is about a one-hour ceremony. we will have some coverage for you later. republican line, good morning. what is most important to you this morning? caller: i think our biggest problem is the lack of honesty coming out of washington and even local government. host: give us an example. what particular issue with someone or something or they dishonest about? caller: people make up their own fax. they should not be allowed to make of their own facts. they can have their own opinion, the politicians stand up in a state some fact like, from a previous caller, that the rich do not pay their fair share, that they should pay more. well, we know that the top 1% pay almost 40% of the taxes in this country. fair share, plus, plus, plus. that is a fact, but nobody calls these politicians on the fact that they are not honest about that. they just repeated as a mantra and then the people pick it up. your callers are a prime example. i listen to your show and i hear not facts, not facts, not facts. i have to say that before this date, the media, has not been doing its job -- the fourth estate, the media, has not been doing its job in years. they have become a wing of the democratic party. we listen to cbs or abc, and they are just reading press releases. they're not doing their jobs. host: more from the sunday morning programs. here is what dick durbin had to say on the debt ceiling. >> this is critical. it is about the reputation of the united states and its economy. if we play games with it, play politics with it and default on our national debt, we could plunge this country back into recession with even deeper unemployment. nobody wants to see that happen. host: eric pianin will be here in about 50 minutes to talk about the debt ceiling. parties are at odds on the living matter of whether to raise the ceiling. a line of demarcation is being established between those who want to raise the ceiling and many tea party backers who do not. it is an uncomfortable schism and has the u.s. chamber of commerce working overtime. the party freshmen are disinclined to raise the debt limit absent strong curbs on future spending. lexington, ky. good morning. independent line. caller: i just would like to say to the lady that was on before, i have to disagree with what she says about the government and the media. i would have to agree with the facts in the story. this is the way control has been made since the beginning. i think the american people need to realize that the world is changing. when the world changes, our leadership, our money, our policies, everything changes. i am in the industry, and now there are three more laws online that allow people to get three streams of income. i am watching the tax. there is no way to track it. i think people need to get ready for what bush called it 15 years ago, a new world order. we are not moving toward the type of employment that is going to be required in 2020. in 2015. i went to two colleges, and everything i went there for almost nine years, i do not make a penny off of it. instead, i make almost two and did $50,000 a year doing stuff online. this -- $250000 a year doing stuff online. host: an ap story coming in in just a few minutes. the international criminal court has asked judges to issue an arrest warrant for libyan leader muammar gaddafi and two other leaders for crimes against humanity, accusing them of deliberately targeting civilians in their crackdown against rebels. the prosecutors say gaddafi, his son and intelligence chief ordered, planned and participated in a legal attacks. he said that they attacked civilians in their homes, shot at demonstrators, showed funeral processions and deployed snipers to kill people leaving mosques. new have to see evidence before they decide whether to confirm the charges and issue arrest warrants. what story is most important to you this morning? caller: 1 is our debt ceiling, which is coming to the floor today, supposedly. the second is where we can start making some important cuts in how we spend the money. i know the last few months have been filled with people proposing cuts here, cuts there, but there is an article in this morning's raleigh news and observer by a former state supreme court justice, robert orr, who says very specifically that we spend a lot of money on kids who have committed first- time offenses and they wind up in a prison system and penalty system that penalize their futures. it makes them felons in criminals before they even have a chance to go into the work force. we need to have an across the country reform. i know officers do not like all of the reforms. we need to get the law- enforcement community to recognize that we're better off having some of our kids become better citizens, more productive, by removing some of the blight, some of the pain that goes from being from a broken home or committing your first offense when you are 16 or 17 and thereby putting yourself as a ward of the state. this is not good. host: >> we are leaving "washington journal" right here. panele going to the discussion on cyber security. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> we are live this morning at the headquarters of the federal communications commission. julius genachowski is hosting a roundtable discussion on protecting small businesses from cyber attacks. this is part of the kickoff of national small business week. speakers include industry and government leaders in cyber security. they will talk about the challenges small businesses are facing in protecting information. we expect this to start in a couple of moments. while we have a moment, we will tell you about some programming we have come up on the c-span networks. later, the focus will shift to detainee interrogations'. it is set for 1:30 p.m. eastern. also today, former cia director porter goss will take part in a discussion at the woodrow wilson center. that is that poor -- 4:00 p.m. eastern. now back live to the fcc. >> i appreciate everyone joining us here today. this is being strained live on c-span. i appreciate all of you joining us. this is an important topic for our country. that me get a special thanks to each of the participants who are here as part of this forum and panel. they will each be introducing themselves. i want to particularly thank michael chertoff for joining us. a unique experience and background. you stay engaged in these issues. we are fortunate to have you at the sec as part of this forum. -- the fcc as part of this forum. as many of you may know, this is national small business week. we have gathered to talk about an issue that is critical to our economy. small businesses and their ability to seize the benefits of new technology and protect against cyber security threats. the fcc is releasing a tip sheet for small businesses and lodging -- and launching a page on our website to help them protect themselves against threats on the internet. american small businesses are key drivers of innovation, economic growth, and job creation in our country. small businesses employ more than half of all private-sector workers. they generate 2/3 of net new jobs over the last 15 years. at a time when we have to focus on job creation, making sure we have technology platforms that are conducive to small businesses creating jobs can make a big deal in our economy. small businesses drive innovation, whether it is small businesses here in d.c., or in cities around the country or in rural america or in silicon valley, small firms produce 13 times more patents per employee than larger ones. broadband information technology is increasingly important for the success of our economy, to jobs and to the future of small businesses. broadband is high-speed internet. online business tools. we are using a lot of terms that you're going to learn more about on this panel today. all of these tools and information that are available online, can enable businesses to grow and jobs to be created anywhere. they allow small businesses to market their products and reach customers in the next neighborhood, in the next city, in the next stage. it is not just limited to big businesses. this can be small businesses as well. it is not just small businesses in big cities. it is small businesses in rural america is as long -- rural america as long as they have been activity. blue valley meats doubled its employees and boosted its sales force to% even in the rough economy of the last few years after setting up a website and starting to sell its beef onl ine. there are many examples of that. there is a cup cake bakery in washington, d.c. that has been able to go from zero stores to over ten stores employing new people with each new store. when i asked the owner of the shop how he was succeeding even though the economic was so challenging, he said the answer is technology. you have got to go to where the customers are. the customers are online. you've got to reach them there. that is what i am focusing on. he has 10 stores in the washington, d.c. area. another thing. cloud base services, internet based services can lower the cost for a small business, increase efficiency for a small business and boost a business' bottom line. this could be products to run customer relations management or run others that we will hear examples of from the panel. lower costs from cloud based services that are more expensive, more profit, more jobs. having a broad band connection makes a $200,000 per year positive difference our revenues for small businesses by helping them reach new markets. the opportunities for broadband for small businesses are real and so are the challenges. we are here to focus on the cyber security challenge. it is not the only challenge we have before us. we are working on the of d.c.. -- the fcc. we have a deployment gat. we are -- deployment gap. we face a expect from -- spectrum gap. demand for spectrum is the increasing -- is increasing exponentially. the demand for spectrum is outstripping supply. we have to do something. we don't, it will affect our economy. small businesses are saying, i can use some of these devices to communicate with my sales force. i can use these mobile devices to move more people out onto the road to respond more quickly to service calls, to respond more with -- more quickly to sell a product and to communicate directly with a client or each other. a plumber who is at someone's house who can take a picture with his ball and have people at the office looked at it and say, i cannot figure out what is wrong with this. to be able to check inventory. all of these uses of mobile technology can help drive the efficiency and productivity with small businesses as long as we have enough spectrum to do all this. it is going to be a challenge. this is why we are working with congress to free up more spectrum. that is the stuff we are not talking about today. we have convened this round table to discuss what of the biggest challenges our country faces, a growing threat to cyber security. almost two years ago, the president declared that securing cyberspace was a vital strategic goal. the white house delivered a road map to protect critical u.s. industries from cyber threats. this afternoon, there will be more announcements on government-wide cyber security efforts. there was a new position created by president obama two years ago. his name is howard. i would like to it knowledge the axle of work being done by the leadership at the department of homeland security -- acknowledge the excellent work being done by the leadership at the department of homeland security. they are working to tackle these threats that require the expertise and participation from a number of agencies around government, including the fcc. congress is looking at doing its part, which is important. congress has been considering legislative proposals that would include increased information sharing between the government and the private sector to rapidly respond to cyber security threats and attacks. it is vital that small businesses be parts of the cyber security equation. -- be part of the cyber security equation. they have the most to gain by addressing the cyber security threats and increasing the trust on this platform. small businesses that do not take protective measures are vulnerable targets for cyber criminals. a recent study found that american businesses louis billions of dollars annually through cyber attacks -- businesses lose billions of dollars annually through cyber attacks. the average cost to these attacks is about $200,000 per attack. in a moment, you will hear from a local businessman. he will talk about the benefits of the internet and about how his r criminals hurt is ♪ construction business. 42% of small and medium businesses reported a loss of continental and private data in the last 12 months. or is it% experienced a net across as a result. -- 40% experienced a loss as a result. we are here today to help small businesses overcome the security challenges and sees the benefits of online commerce. i expect today's discussion will reveal many small but significant steps that small businesses can do to protect their company and their customers. let me announce a number of steps that the fcc is taking today to help in this educational endeavor, to promote a safe and secure internet and to promote security for small businesses. we are launching a small business security page on our website. you can go to the front page of fcc.gov and you will see a place you can click. we will be releasing a one-page tip sheet to help businesses understand cyber security precautions. we are working with macafee and symantec and s.c.o.r.e. we have a representative from s.c.o.r.e., mcafee and the national urban league. s.c.o.r.e. did a great job interacting with small business all over the country. we did a national broadband plan. we developed a successful partnership, bringing our complementary expertise to the table to help small businesses around the country accelerate their moves online. we are focusing on how small businesses can protect themselves. we are working with s.c.o.r.e. to distribute this material in the effective ways s.c.o.r.e. has developed over many years. we have partnered with organizations like the national urban league, the national black chamber of commerce, the national hispanic chamber of commerce to distribute these materials. we have a partnership with an organization called n.i.c.e., which runs the stop, think, connect campaign, designed to raise awareness about the need to strengthen cyber security and generate and communicate new approaches and strategies to help americans increase their safety and security online. all these initiatives are collaborations with the people in this room. as the fcc's broadband plan emphasize, there is tremendous power in the government and private sector coming together to help solve some of our nation's toughest problems. ciba security for small businesses is an area where i am -- cyber security for small businesses is an area where i am convinced we can make a difference. i want to thank all of our partners for their partnership. i look forward to working with you to protect small businesses and our economic. we are going to move to our panel. what i would like to do first is ask each of our palace -- our panelists to briefly introduce themselves. we will jump from there into a discussion. why don't we start here. dr. phyllis schneck. >> i am dubie chief technology officer for the global public sector of mcafee public sector. >> i am dave notch. i work with thomson reuters. >> i am the vice president for national security at the u.s. chamber of commerce in washington, d.c. >> good morning. thank you, mr. chairman, for having us here. i am michael chertoff. i am the chairman of a group called chertoff group. i was the homeland security secretary. >> i am chanelle hardy. >> good morning. i am ken yancey. i am the ceo of s.c.o.r.e. >> my name is maurice jones. i am been ceo up a local construction company. we have experienced a situation with ciba security. for our company, i want to let you know that what is out -- without the broad band, we would have suffered a lot of inefficiency without being able to communicate with our superintendent and things of that nature. without the benefit of high- speed technicians -- high-speed connections, we would lose money in ways we would not be able to quantify and i would not be here in front of you today. with that being said, cyber security has its growing pains. one of the issues we experienced was due to those growing pains. our experience started with getting a phone call first thing in the morning from a reporter asking us if we knew we had experienced a financial loss. at that time, we had no idea what happened. as the present and i started to sit down and go through certain things, we realize the bank had been attacked by a cyber criminal. to give you an idea of what happened, there was an e-mail that came. we thought the e-mail was coming from a valid source. on clicking on things related to the e-mail, we gave the cyber criminal act the way to access our database. by the time we realize it, we were missing quite a bit of funds. by working with different organizations, we were able to recoup some of the losses, but not all of them. we experienced financial losses without the benefit of broadband technology. we would not be able to function today. these things are essential for us to grow without we depend on businesses and things of that nature. we have come to a better way of doing business, interacting better with the broadband technology with our structure and style -- structure inside the company. hopefully, we will not be a part of that type of financial loss again. >> thank you. i want to ask you one question and then open it up for broader discussion. talk a little bit about the ways that you use the internet to help grow your business. >> sure. of course, we use the website to attract new customers, new clients. it is a way of expressing to people what we do, a way of reaching out to bigger general contractors. we are a subcontractor. at the same time, we use the technology to constantly send information. without being able to send information on line, we would really behind -- be behind the business curve. we would not be able to sell applications online, submit financial data. we can log onto bank accounts and verify information now in real time. without it, we would really be at a loss. it allows us to take a business that might take 15-20 people to run to be run with 10 people from an overhead iperspective. we can come out positions that are dire, especially during times when costs are so hard to control. sometimes, the revenue is out there -- is not out there, so the best thing you can do is try to control costs. >> thank you, and i'm going to ask you to keep on engaging in the discussion. we're going to move to a broader discussion. i want to let our audience know both here and online, feel free to submit questions in the room. if you're on-line, and there should be a place to click to submit questions. we will try to get to as many of them as we can. secretary chertoff, let me move to you. you have many years of experience in this area. you have seen both the opportunities and the threats develop. you continue to be directly engaged in this. can you give us an overview of the most common threads that small businesses have to worry about? >> first of all, i think this is a very valuable program you have launched here. for a lot of people, particularly small businesses, even though they've read in the newspaper about dramatic compromises of cybersecurity, they may feel it is something only very sophisticated companies or institutions have to worry about. as mr. jones illustrated through his own difficulties, this really touches everybody. at the same time, it is important to recognize that what we are talking about here is managing cyber risk, not eliminating cyber risk. there will never be a program that will eliminate all possibilities of cyber threat. the only way to do that would be to get off the network, and that would cause an enormous loss of some of the great potential that we have using the internet. you have to look at the balance. a lot of this has to do with the nature of your business. different businesses will have different sets of concerns. at one level, there will be basic concerns about the integrity of finances and customer information that will apply to almost every business. and the other hand, when you're worried about your intellectual property, for example, being stolen, that could be of more concern to a high-tech business than a bakery. i am sure bakery recipes are important and proprietary, but probably not of interest to bad actors in other parts of the world purify everybody will have -- parts of the world. everybody will have different concerns. the particular technique mr. jones talked about, which are called fishing -- phishing, where you open a device or tool that allows people to steal your information, that is a very common device. there is a whole spectrum of the tax that you deal with insider that can range from actually a -- spectrum of attacks that you deal with in cyber that can range from stealing loaves of information to stealing passwords. -- loads of member nation to stealing passwords. there are several categories of information. first, you want to be concerned about how you protect transactions that might reveal sensitive financial information about your own business. q1 to be concerned about proprietary business data, what -- you want to be concerned about proprietary business data. if you deal with customer information, credit cards and things, you owe it to your customers to ensure that that is not compromise. you have to be concerned about intellectual property. that is a very big target for people who steal things over the internet. you have to be concerned about criminal groups that try to extort money from you by threatening to attack your system. often they do that by overwhelming your network with bogus messages. that, of course, shuts off the network to legitimate customers and also creates somewhat of a crisis of trust with customers who may be engaging over the internet. finally, you have to look for those who maliciously attacked you. we have had two experiences recently where a group referred to as anonymous will attack institutions because they do not like what somebody is saying or they are a -- or they do not like a client or customer of the institution. those are all things to be concerned about. this forum is not only about education, but about empowering small businesses to know that there are steps they can take to deal with these kinds of problems. >> very helpful. i want to turn to h p. very interesting position when it comes to this, because you offer a whole array of products to help small businesses sees the benefits of the internet. you also, particularly in your job paula have a real view and insight into the securities sought -- in your job, have a real view and insight into the security side. every technology can offer benefits, but also brings with it some risks. with something like internet access, you can eliminate the risks by not going on line. from a competitive standpoint, that is not a good idea because other businesses are going to be on line and the opportunities for growth and lower costs would not be there without it. it is not what we're advising people to do, to turn it off, just the opposite. i would like to us to talk both about -- as concretely as you can -- remembering that a lot of small businesses are on line, but a lot are not, what are some practical ways you can see for small businesses to expand their markets and lower their costs. then, on the security side, what are concrete things small businesses can do to protect themselves? >> it is true that small businesses are today cyber- dependent. they cannot operate effectively or grow effectively without having cyberspace at their disposal, yet cyberspace's continually threatened, not only by individuals out to extort money or ideas, but also multinational and crime syndicates that are there as well. each of these threats are apparent to not only small businesses but to governments as well. the resources to deal with them are different at each level. i think it is important that small businesses work toward establishing security relationships as well as they would establish relationships with other kinds of suppliers, relationships with the people that will bring you the piece is the need for the product to make. likewise, you need to establish relationships with the folks that support the security of your company. it is important you have folks on stuff that understand the privacy of the information's your handling. how you process, store it, what you are doing with it when you're done with it. that will protect you from losing in the nation, and also protect you in the long term from being accountable for losing that information. it is very important to make sure that the survival of your business is something that will happen after a cyber attack. as secretary chertoff mentioned, cyber attacks are going to happen along the way. the question is, how prepared are you, and how invested are you in knowing that this critical portion of your business is protected? with that, there are several products available at many levels that can help. a lot are available from small business value added resellers. they come packaged with the equipment that you might buy. it is important that you understand what you're buying, because you might not have to make secondary investments. a lot of this is available freely to you because you're dealing with sophisticated vendors. likewise, there are relationships to establish with organizations like info-guard, so that you can understand what is happening in the broader environment and get some great in vice -- great advice. now, the other thing you have to look at is how my going to survive in the face of threats? just like you have to deal with weather and traffic, the price fluctuations in materials, you also should say i know i have to deal with the security of my information and i know it will not be perfect. i now have to plan for it and deal with reality as it comes. look at the tools you have, the processes you have, the people you have, train them and leverage them to the greatest ability. no small business can be outside the cybersecurity business. they have to intersect at some level and understand investments they have made, and try to leverage those investments toward the most important piece of their business which is to survive in the event of an attack. >> i want to ask you a similar question. you're one of the largest information based companies in the world. what do you see both on the benefit side and on the risk side? also, talk about your own experience at thompson reuters that could be helpful. >> from the benefits standpoint, we use the internet for distribution. obviously, many of our customers connect to us a rare the internet. it is a very good way to reach a very broad -- connect to us over the internet. it is a very good way to reach a very broad audience. mr. jones alluded to the risks that come in through e-mail and malicious code. we also see that often over web browsing. those are the two main channels. everyone is susceptible to those, both small businesses and large businesses. we see that very often. secondly is just direct attacks on your system itself, whether it is a hacker coming in and perhaps stealing credit card data off your web server or serving at -- or stealing a database. those are the two main risks we see. today, those are what occur more frequently than most. just to comment on an earlier comment made about services, i view causes services as a way for small businesses to leverage the purview of large businesses. you can get good e-mail, ceram and process knowledge at a cost service and not really have to build the infrastructure yourself. i think that can give small businesses a step up as to what has been available in the past. >> ann, talk about small businesses today. what did they know in terms of opportunities, and what did they know in terms of risks and threats and what they should do? >> 97% of our membership is small business, so we do deal with them a great deal. as you can imagine, using the internet as a small business is a wonderful tool. you can reach the world. the downside is, you can reach the world. the bad guys are watching you. if i were to sit down and talk to you about infrastructure and railroads and banks, i think you'd be surprised at how well they are protecting their infrastructure. i think events like this and cybersecurity awareness month in october all help to raise awareness, but we need to do more. i think it cannot just be one month out of the year. we need to have a campaign much like the stop, think, connect. it is a culture change. it is going to take a long time, much like wearing seat belts, not smoking, and getting people to not click on a link or not open an e-mail if they do not recognize it. basically, yes, the internet is a great tool, but you need to protect yourself. it is about the bottom line. you can really hurt your brand. you can end up in a lot of legal trouble if you're not protecting yourself. that is key, and we are trying to get the message out to our members. >> thank you. i am going to take a minute and mention that we are releasing today tend cybersecurity tips for small businesses. en cybersecurity tips for small businesses. i am going to move on, but i would like you to comment on these. let me review the headlines quickly for people listening and people here. then i will ask our representatives from symantec and mcafee to comment. one, train employees and security principles. two, protect information, computers and networks from viruses, spy where and other malicious code. three, provides firewall security for your internet connection. four, download and install software updates as they become available. five, make backup copies of important business data and affirmation. 6, control physical access to your computers and network components. fi enth, secure your wif- network. eighth, secure individual user accounts for each employee. ninth, limit employee access and ability to install software. 10, regularly change passwords. comment on any of those. help small businesses understand what they can do to immediately improve their security online. >> how much time do we have? [laughter] first, i want to thank you and thank our audience and panelists. it is important that we understand these risks. the way we do that is by a hearing from everybody else. it is a little bit like the cbc. we learn about the disease not from its popularity, but by how it spreads. we, as the good guys, especially in small business, have to remember how important that small business is. we are two-thirds of the job creation and 60% of the gdp of this country. we have to focus on not just one bit of information. other governments and other companies are very interested in what is in every single small business in this country and around the world. they will find ways to get it. instant messages a new one. mobile is a growing one. when you think about these things, i can pull a couple out. physical access -- very often we see an insider threat. you can secure your perimeter. it is shiny objects. when someone offers you a free gift, heaven knows what happens when you click on that. you have to protect your brand. you have to gross sales and help your employees eat so that you can grow sales and build value. when you lose the quality of your brand, that will go away. it is a people think. regularly change passwords. a cyber event could cause physical damage. that is one of the many attacks we see at their worldwide. the nuclear passwords were the easiest to get and the hardest to change. resilience is key. be as flexible as you can be. another quick point to mention, at mcafee we say safe never sleeps. we see 14 million new machines become compromised every day. these attacks will overwhelm your network. you can be part of that, if you are compromised, hurting other companies, or used as a compromise machine. i commend the fcc and this program in putting out some tips that help smaller businesses leverage the power of the internet and make your business and your customers safe. thank you. >> thank you. cheri from symantec, similar question. what jumps out at you as far as actionable steps he thinks small business owners could take right away to significantly -- you think small business owners could take right away to significantly improve security? >> as you mentioned, semantic conducted a study released in 2011 that actually surveyed small business owners and customers around the world. what we found through that was that 50% of small businesses do not have a plan. more shockingly, 41% said it never occurred to them that they should have a plan. 40% also said the data protection was not a priority for their business. when you think about this, 40% of small businesses saying data protection is not important to their business, that is kind of a shocking statistic when you think about it. data, as mr. jones indicated, is what your business runs on. it is why your customers trust is dependent on, in how you conduct your business. from the standpoint of the 10 cybersecurity strategies for small business that the fcc is releasing today, we think it is a great list. we are delighted to announce that we will be posting this on our small and medium business website that is dedicated to that particular segment of the communities of the week and try to get that awareness out to them. i would also like -- so that we can try to get that awareness out to them. and also like to mention that as customers of small-business owners, we found that not being prepared can also go have significant impacts. 44% of small-business customers have actually seen a small business vendor shutdown due to an attack. that cost as customers roughly $10 a day. here is the kicker. more than 54% of those customers actually switched vendors were switched to another small business owner because they did not believe they could continue to rely on that small business owner. so this can have, cybersecurity can have a bottom-line impact steerer survival as a small business, and frankly those security -- impact to your survival as a small business, and frankly the security in packs can -- in packs can be the key to your customer's business. >> you spend a lot of time with businesses run by people from disadvantaged backgrounds, minority communities. do you see any unique issues among the businesses you work with that we should put on the table? >> i would not say unique, but i would say that if you look at the most recent poll out from ew, there is an indication that there is greater discussed -- greater distrust among the community about internet security. perhaps the slows down ways in which minority owned businesses begin the process, but as others have discussed, it is critical to take that risk. it is one of the reasons the national urban league is excited about working to spread the information about cybersecurity for small business, because we know that is critical to the growth of urban small businesses. speaking to the secretary just a moment ago, up we were speaking about the importance of having some natural suspicion and being able to spot the kinds of things that cause problems for small businesses. i think there is a little additional skepticism, but overall, a recognition of the opportunity. >> ken, could you describe sc ore a little bit? i will admit, i did not know about it before we partnered with score. describe what you do, and what you are hearing from small businesses around america about the internet, good and bad, and your thoughts about what they should be doing. >> thank you. thank you for having me and for having this panel, and thank you for your partnership. for those that do not know, as gore is a volunteer organization of mostly retired -- a score is a volunteer organization of mostly retired small-business owners who mentor people who would like to start a small business. we speak about any topic that relates to growing, managing, buying or selling a business. our volunteers are well-trained and very knowledgeable, and anxious to be of value to these would-be entrepreneurs and existing entrepreneurs. we partnered with the fcc recently on a new e-business initiative where we're working to train these business owners on the values of broadband technology. how can they grow their sales? how can they manage internally more effectively by using these tools? a natural extension of that would be to talk about security. when we started the e-business now initiative, we did do some focus groups, and most of those that did not have a web presence or a web presence that included the opportunity to do e- commerce, they did not because they were concerned about security. there are so many tools and so many opportunities to mitigate and manage that risk as secretary chertoff said, it is really something all small business owner should be aware of. small-business owners are busy. they're wearing multiple hats, and they often do not take the time to think through some of the issues that relate to a web strategy, internet strategy and cybersecurity strategy. i think the list you're putting out -- and congratulations on doing that -- no. one is critical. you need to have a plan and communicate that plan. that is not hard to do. this should be part of your ongoing business plan as a small-business owner. this should be something you review a couple of times each year, maybe when you set your clocks forward and backward. don't just check the batteries in your smoke detector, also review your business plan for security. people need to know about opening some drives, sharing passwords, leaving their computer on. talk to them about securing data and data back up. in a natural disaster or a man- made disaster, business is that lose their data, 90% of them never go back into business. we saw that with katrina, and i'm sure that with some of the tragedies we are experiencing today, we will see that going forward. we work at score to educate through our volunteers, the web, and other vehicles, to really break down the steps that business owners can take and actually make a difference. talk about the plan. 50% of small businesses do not have a plan. secretary chertoff, let me ask you about that. how concerned are you about that, and how can this give us a broader perspective of what we need to do as a country on cybersecurity? >> what emerges from the conversation we have had here, there are really two parts to solving this issue. one is to educate people. if you are a business engaging in transactions on line and you have a date to a breach and a loss of -- and data breach and a loss of information, it is important to realize your customers will probably not reach engage with you. the second part of this, and what is important about the program you are rolling out here, is that you are empowering people to understand that they can actually address the problem. it is complicated, particularly if the look of these high-end kind of attacks. people walk away. the message has to be there is a lot that business can do to protect itself. we have talked about some. blogging the correct, the products to protect yourself -- buying the correct kind of products to protect yourself. also, buying the correct kind of products. you're not going to get the updates, you may find things embedded in that hardware or software that could be malicious. being careful about making sure you are buying their products to protect yourself is an important part of your plan. resiliency. how to make sure you have back up your data? how you make sure you can reconstitute? what some of us call computer hygiene. how you train yourself and your work force in basic principles that minimize the risk that you'll have a compromise of risk of your data. on the issue of passwords. passwords that rely upon your spouse's name or other kinds of very available personal information are not likely to be useful or protective. educating people and how to select an change passwords is important. common sense is a great tool. we have talk about tony e-mails that come to you and induce you to click got -- we've talked about phony e-mails. a common one going around is summit will going and get an address book and it will get everybody's address book -- everybody is addressed and it will send e-mails out to everybody. usually is something like, sorry to bother you, i'm stranded in paris. can you send me money? often this is from somebody you may have seen yesterday and they were not planning on going to paris. educating your employees about that is important. flash strives -- drives. the was a report outlining what had been one of the major security breaches in the defense department. it began when an individual officer picked up a u.s. peace stick -- usb stick of uncertain origin and a major intrusion occurred. -gen -- hygiene. you do not pick up and eat everything off the street. this is very, very important. >> a couple of themes. we started about talking of being on-line can help small businesses and guarding against it is necessary. having a cyber security plan is a competitive advantage. not having want is a competitive disadvantage -- not having one is a competitive disadvantage. if you do not have a plan, you're more likely to get distractions. having a plant is a competitive advantage -- having a plan is a competitive advantage. the stuff is complicated and technical. i wanted to come back to maurice jones. you're not using talking about on panels at the fcc. you have explored this issue. what are the best ways to communicate about these issues with small businesses that are not technology businesses, but that are starting to use the internet to grow their business and lower their cost? what have you seen in your work be effective in talking to your own employees, talking to other companies in similar businesses? >> sure. thank you again. using the system itself, e- mails. when you get anymore, check the validity. if you received something that does not make sense come pick up the phone and call. make sure things make sense to you. having small meetings. the monday morning meetings. we may talk about things like this. sit down and let people know, if you have a problem with your e- mail or blackberry, let somebody know. communication is always the key. people felt the victim. it is about communication. checking the e-mail, picking up the phone, calling supervisors and making sure people are what they seem to be. >> it starts with a lot of small businesses, especially ones that are offline business is starting to embrace on-line opportunities. is this all too complicated? how can we make sure that what we're doing is actionable for small businesses? >> i think you're right. the assumption is that this is an i.t. problem. if you lay out simple steps that are inexpensive, businesses will do that. i like the top 10 list that you put together. i have a prop. we didn't internet security essentials for businesses. security an internet essentials for businesses. educating your employees, making sure they have strong passports, designating someone to handle security, taking control of your network, making sure you of someone who is watching the flow of traffic or the e-mails. then we put into policies and problems. identifying and prioritizing your business information. what is important to your business? defending your company computers. to not be plugging in those free things you get at conferences. that is a terrible idea. think about when you're buying new computers, what are you doing with your old computers? having a plan to deal with if you get attacked. who'd you call? do you know the groups out there that can help you? a third part is defending your data on the go. for folks who travel abroad, make sure they protect their blackberries. backing up your computers regularly. not just participating in cyber security month, getting information from the chamber of commerce. make sure your folks know what they should do and what they should not do. >> chanelle hardy, can i ask you the same question? what suggestions on how to break through the common concern that technology is for other people, we're not in the technology business so it is not our problem. >> i think a lot of that gets to who was providing the information and making sure that organizations, individuals that are trusted. part of the rule that the national urban league plays, we have developed services to 36 states, working with small businesses through things like our entrepreneurship center, where we have been in the committee for a long time and they know the information that we're providing is safe and tested. when we can partner with the sec and disseminate that information, then there recognize that we are giving them the same types of useful tools that we provide in our direct services world. >> i want to put a topic on the table. often we talk about small businesses at forums like this. we have a picture in our head and small business or other offline businesses that are starting to think about the internet to expand their business. more and more, there are small businesses that are on line only. hp, if 100% of those online start-ups are doing everything they can to protect themselves, are they, or is there more work to do among all line -- online start-ups as well? >> there is a good chance they are already ahead of the game. there is a good chance they don't run their own networks. a certain level of security. their culture is in and they are partnered with folks that have the broad responsibility to party do the security and the availability aspects of the security -- of that business, they are well off in terms of security, but there is always more to do. they have to have a way to switch business to another provider of those services if that provides to be susceptible to a threat like that. it is not like they can turn off the need to pay attention to what is going on, but in general they are more prepared than somebody who is running a less technology intensive operation. >> then the ask dr. schneck. we have heard about startups and the often struggle to raise money and a very focused use of capital. some of them are young folks starting at of college. how important is it that even young entrepreneurs just starting out, how important is it to stop and say, do have a cyber or security plan as part of my business? so that i am protected. >> i think ann nailed this. this is an overall risk. there was a report that showed around the world a huge increase in awareness of all the attacks that you mentioned today, and then some. within that increase of spending, some plan was responsible for that. if you look at the spectrum of companies, i had a small company when i was young and i was part of a slightly larger company after that appeared in both cases, security was not a profit center. that was over 10 years ago. the role of a small company is to make revenue and to grow. it insures your trust. it says you're building an infrastructure that is responsible. you are part of the entire infrastructure. we're all connected. if you don't do your part to keep a healthy network, you're endangering all the other companies, big and small. a lot of those online start-ups that leveraged, some managed security providers we have seen have had issues with break-ins and personal information being shared where it should not be. you do need that plan to shift over. venture capitalists are looking at what your infrastructure looks like. who is your idea guy? how are they locking this down? that is part of the insurance echoes into venture capital. >> i will ask you a similar questions, cheri mcguire. ift of what we're hearing you're a small business and a growing -- whether you're an offline business using on-line, it is important to think about these issues early because you are not immune from the threat and also because it could become even harder and more expensive to wait and then deal with an infrastructure and try to superimpose security. if you could each, and what you're seeing -- if you could each comment on what you're seeing. >> what i see a lot of is -- more contacts. we serve a number of market verticals. we have numerous security departments across those verticals. in many cases, they are not the same. here is the requirement that you have from your customers and your regulators and this is how you build it into your business and your products and services going forward. we see the numbers a different way, whether it is is developing products for services, it is always cheaper to build it in upfront. that is critical. the complexity of the problem -- we seek well-regarded security companies are having issues. it is complex and it may seem like something we'll never get past. i like the list of 10 items. there is no end of the information that you can find on the internet about how to secure your systems but little that is summarize that can be useful. another interesting statistics. there is a well-regarded data -- that was just appalls. 96% of bridges could have been avoided by doing a medium ever in security measures -- 96% of breaches. they could have been avoided. >> any small business and those that are working online have to recognize there is a risk. you cannot transfer the risk away just because you have a vendor or someone providing services to you. you still own at risk when it comes to providing a service for your customer. a break in the trust can have a detrimental impact to your bottom line and the survival of your business. from that standpoint, you really need to know what questions to ask of small business owners of your vendors. what kinds of security protections do they have built into their class services, for example? how do they handle things like data breach that you may be paying them to provide service for profit those kinds of questions that a small business owner should ask. >> what is the class -- what is the cloud? >> the cloud is storage in the cloud. it is a remote way to access your data comes to back up your data, secure your data, to use various applications such as, you know, word-processing, accounting, those kinds of tools that you can access, pay a service provider for, access them from pretty much everywhere. it provides opportunities for small businesses as well as lower cost. they don't have to manage those prophecies, updating of those applications over time, updating the security. it is all being done at another layer by a provider this small business owner does not have to do it anymore. it is a way to simplify your business, gain efficiency, perhaps reduce costs, be more secure. it is something small business owners need to recognize. there's a risk associated with that. the need to manage that risk. >> there are terms that i think we all use ourselves that we know very well like cloud and malware, phishing, and i'm wondering and i will ask our team in partners to follow up on whether we should pursue ways to develop a glossary, usable glossary that mr. jones with tell us, this could be helpful. that is something we will follow up coming out of this. lemme think some of the staff that has worked so hard on this. animal jimmy barnett -- admiral jamie barnett. tom reed. our main point of contact for small businesses. the staff of our consumer bureau, also very focused on these issues. a number of folks who worked very hard on this. i want to thank all of you for putting together something that i think has been and will be very productive for small businesses. secretary chertoff, then the ask you a question -- let me ask you a question. it came to us online. more and more malicious attackers are compromising small business web sites by leaving the compromise site unaffected. attackers -- redirecting others to malware. the owners have little resources to scan for and correct security breaches which dealt primarily affect their sights. is there a role to discourage these? that is a great question. dr. schneck touched on this earlier. they are controlled remotely and can turn them into an attack. this is a challenge that we have in cyber security. obviously there is an incentive to protect your own system against being compromised or degraded in some way because there is an economic loss that you want to avoid. what do you do when the attack on your system will not actually result in a negative consequences on your system, but rather a negative consequence on a third-party either because it is used or sicken or remotely or because it becomes a way to embed malicious code in the network of the third-party? this may not have an incentive because it is not feeling the consequences. the consequence is being felt by a third party. this is an area where people may find themselves facing lawsuits because the victims may wind up suing or complaining about the website the was the source of the attack, even if it was in a sense. -- even if it was innocent. liability exposure and even some regulation to make sure people are properly incentivized so that their own networks to not become a weapon against some innocent third party. >> a very practical question. al kinney. this is from someone in our audience here. if my business is under attack, and who'd you call first? -- do you call private experts? a very practical question. >> thank you. the first thing is to make sure that your business can still run. that business is important to you. the employees that you have. once you look at that, the technical experts that you have established relationships with during the course of planning for your cyber security and next, those are the people that you need to call. law-enforcement needs to be broadened in concert with that to this problem. -- needs to be brought in. there are some immediate things that you should do with that information to make sure that you preserve it for law- enforcement but also provide continuity for yourself. so you should switch over to your backup systems. if you have another place the year of made an agreement with to help you with your business. you need to switch over there quickly. theneed to perhaps unplug internet from that system. unplugging from the internet can provide some protection for you so that you don't continue to bleed information over the internet. you need to find a way to enact your plan of communication. the customers know that something is going on and you have the responsibility to protect their information and describe for them the types of risk that they may be incorrect because of this problem. it is an integrity issue that every business wants to make sure that their brand is top notch on a good day and a bad day. be honest up front. >> excellent. dr. schneck. for companies that use smartphones for employees, or whether any special precautions to take? >> thank you, mr. chairman. i was in georgetown a month ago -- smartphones are an extension of every other piece of technology that we use. they have an address. they do have additional information as to where you are. precautions go to consumers asian -- consumerization. shiny objects that everybody would like to use. they play and reedbirds -- they play angry birds. what we're facing right now is a huge increase in malware is directed to mobile in this country. and then start looking at how we can lock those phones down but make them adaptable. make it so the consumer, the small business consumer, the military, all those can work with the smartphones and still be secure. everything with an i.p. address, you are connected. and they are connected to you. on the plan to respond to a breach, the fbi and secret service have done an amazing job of our reach to the private sector. as part of your plan, build in a relationship with law enforcement, secret service. having that law-enforcement in that list of cell phone numbers on a first name basis on who to call so that you could help drive the investigation. you know when you can unplug stuff and you know when to preserve that information frantically. >> if i could just add to that. we have seen an explosion with the use of mobile devices. the simple thing is to make sure you have anti-virus or security virus installed on your smartphone. that is a simple thing you can do to protect yourself. second, use the same kinds of common sense precautions that you use when you use your laptop or your desktop at home or at worked. do not click on those e-mails that you do not know where they came from for sure. do not go to those websites that maybe are not totally trusted. use the same kind of common- sense principles when you're using your smartphone. >> that is very helpful. this is been very productive. i thank you all. we're getting near the end. i like to ask each of the panelists to provide one piece of takeaway advice to small business owners who are watching this panel or will come to later. we have our tip sheets. i'll start with mr. jones and go round the table and then we'll skip secretary troth -- secretary chertoff.