Transcripts For CSPAN Key Capitol Hill Hearings 20140710

Overstretched Immigration Enforcement system. And this provides Additional Resources for immigration judg judges, for the Legal Orientation Program, and for counsel for minors. As has been mentioned earlier today on this floor, we have an International Obligation when children fleeing violence present legitimate claims for Refugee Status, to make sure they have their day in court before either repatriating them to their country of origin or allowing them Refugee Status here. This emergency supplemental would increase the funding so that there wouldnt be such an enormous backlog of cases, so that there would be a Legal Orientation Program which has a proven record of success. While it doesnt provide personal counsel to everyone awaiting trial, it gives out basic information so that legitimate claims can be made and illegitimate claims dont waste the time of our Immigration Courts. Last, providing counsel to minor children, its a small portion of this total supplemental, but if youve got a child who is a victim of child trafficking, who has a valid asylum claim, they have to be given the opportunity to present a valid claim. We already know funding in these areas are insufficient to meet this surge in refugee minors seeking the relief of the American Country and court system and i think we have to do both, invest in ensuring stability in the three countries in Central America from which tens of thousands of children are fleeing, and invest in ensuring that our Border Security, our Immigration Courts and the reasonable and appropriate process for separating out those who are legitimate refugees from those who are seeking access to our country illegally is done in a fair and appropriate way. A refugee crisis is not the time for us to abandon our laws or our values. Its the time for us to enforce and abide by those laws fairly and efficiently. And to do so i think, frankly, our best solution would be to have the house take up, consider and pass the comprehensive immigration bill, the bipartisan immigration bill that was taken up and passed by this chamber over a year ago. Frankly, madam president , i think this crisis is in no small part because of a critical opportunity that we missed a year ago to legislate in a responsible, bicameral and bipartisan way, to invest more on the border, to invest more in stabilizing the region, and to invest more in ensuring that we have the resources in our courts to deliver justice in this country appropriately. With that, thank you, and i yield the floor. Coming up, a hearing on protecting the border. G on after that, reducing poverty. Tune into the tv for the harlem book fair. Multicultural book publishing. At 11 45rage starts eastern on book tv. He hearing on Security Issues at the usmexico border and the influx of unaccompanied children from Central America. Officials from several Government Agencies testified before the Homeland Security committee. This is two hours 45 minutes. Let me begin today by calling us to order. And thanking our witnesses for joining us to discuss the current humanitarian challenge that is playing out along our southern border with mexico. Unaccompanied children as young as 4 years old arriving in record numbers almost every day. Before discussing the administrations robust response to this Current Situation, however, i think its important to try to put things into context. Over the past decade, weve made significant progress in securing our borders. Since 2003, for example, weve spent about quarter of a trillion dollars to enforce our immigration laws. More than doubling the size of the Border Patrol along the way. Weve also built 670 miles of fencing and deployed force mu i multiplier multipliers, such as hightech cameras, drones, and other aircraft up and down our border. 2006, just eight years ago, the Border Patrol apprehended more than 1 Million People at the border. Last year, we stopped just over 420,000. Some got through, most did not. While the most recent recession played a role in that drop, i think its clear the investments weve made in recent years have paid off. Although overall, migration is still at historic lows, were now facing a large surge, as we know, in undocumented immigration from the Central American countries, including unprecedented numbers of unaccompanied children and families showing up at our borders. Some are saying that the Current Situation shows that our borders are not secure. I dont believe this is true. Let me be clear. These children and their families are not slipping past our borders undetected. They are being apprehended in large numbers by the Border Patrol, almost as soon as they touch the u. S. , often turning themselves in voluntarily. People from Central America, unlike mexico, must be flown back to their countries. This is a costly process that can take months and sometimes even years. This process is even more complicated for unaccompanied children and families, because our laws, appropriately, require different treatment for these groups. Children must be handed over to the department of health and Human Services and families must be detained in special facilities that include Educational Opportunity for children. Our Border Security system has been overwhelmed by the sheer number of these children and families. The administration and secretary johnson have responded to the situation with what i describe as an all hands on deck approach. The federal Emergency Management administration is coordinating with the department of Homeland Security wide response to the problem. The department of defense has provided space in some of its military installations to house unaccompanied minors until health and Human Services can find a placement for them. And we surged Immigration Judges and other personnel to the border to help process these individuals. Finally, just yesterday, the Administration Proposed some 3. 7 billion in emergency funding to deal with this situation. And while were still trying to drill down on it and understand fully what it calls for, we do know that the department of Homeland Security will receive 1. 5 billion to detain and deport more families, build some temporary additional detention facilities for the Border Patrol, and enhance investigations into human smuggling networks. These resources are urgently needed. Im concerned, however, that while we continue to focus a great deal of attention on the symptoms of the problems along the border, we also continue to focus too little attention in addressing the underlying causes. As i mentioned earlier, we spent nearly a quarter of a trillion dollars securing our borders since 2003. At the same time, only a small fraction of this amount has been invested in addressing the root causes in Central America that are encouraging young people and their families to risk life and limb and make the long and dangerous trek to south texas. Seeking a better life in the United States is nothing new. Most of us here today are here because someone in our family a generation or more ago decided to come here to take advantage of what america has to offer. But for some of those Central Americans, especially, the children and parents, who often send them on their journeys, the decision can be a desperate one. Life in parts of guatemala, el salvador, and honduras is more than difficult today. It can be deadly. Ive seen it firsthand, even this year. Violence has been steadily increasing in the region, with homicide rates in all three countries among the highest in the entire world. Kidnapping and extortion are endemic. Meanwhile, these countries have stagnant economies to create too few jobs and opportunities for their citizens. Faced with this violence and lack of hope at home, people from the region are voting with their feet and risking their lives and a nearly 1,500 mile journey to the United States. I believe that the u. S. , along with mexico, along with colombia, and along with many others, need to do a better job of helping Central American countries help themselves. How . In a large part, by helping them create a more nurturing environment for job creation. Restore the rule of law. Lower energy costs. Improve Workforce Skills and access to capital. And improve the prospects for the young people so that more of them are willing, even eager, to stay home and help build their country up. Im dismayed to hear some of our colleagues suggest that the answer is to cut off funding for these countries. And while im a strong advocate of tough love, i believe in tough love, it strikes me as an extremely shortsighted step to take and one that will likely do more harm than good in the long run. Colombia would be a failed nation today instead of one with a vibrant economy thats become a strong ally of hours. Do our neighbors and their leaders in Central America need to do more to provide a broader future for their own citizens . You bet they do. But this is not the time to abandon them. Do we really think that making things worse in this country is going to somehow improve the situation on our borders . I dont think so. Im encouraged that the administration has included 300 million in its emergency supplemental request for the state department, some of which will be used to deal with the root causes of south american migration. But these funds should be seen as a down payment. This cannot be one and done. If were serious about improving conditions in this region, we need to do more, and frankly, so will others. And i would emphasize this. This is a shared responsibility. This shouldnt be all on americas shoulders. This is a shared responsibility and it includes the mexicans and colombians and other countries in latin america. It includes Development Banks and so far. But keep in mind, plan colombia took more than a decade to bear fruit. I think we face a similar commitment here today. Hopefully not that long, but a similar commitment. And in making that commitment will not only prove ourselves good neighbors, but ensure that we wont continue to face an expensive humanitarian crisis at our borders a decade from now. Addressing the factors that are pushing people out of Central America is important, but we also need to address the factors that are pulling them here in the first place. Some are saying that the current surge in migration from Central America is somehow tied to the actions that president obama has taken, to help undocumented immigrants, who are brought here as children, years ago, come out of the shadows and live without fear. Many of those making this argument are the same people who oppose Immigration Reform and have rejected our Bipartisan Senate efforts to update the outdated immigration laws that often drive people to try and enter our country illegally. From what i have seen and heard, the biggest factor that pulls people to come here is the desire to have a better life. A job in the United States. But a broken immigration systems dont do enough to provide legal avenues for workers we want and need, nor does it provide the most effective tools to ensure the providers dont exploit undocumented workers. The Senate Passed a comprehensive Immigration Reform bill more than a year ago. I would be the first to say, it is not perfect. Other parts, would i like to change . You bet i would. And im sure others feel the same way. It would tackle some of the root causes that are pulling these migrants to come here and live and work by providing them legal avenues to do so and return to their own countries. It also further increases the security of our borders and enforce our immigration and workforce laws in the interior of the country. Lastly, Congressional Budget Office concluded that the Immigration Reform bill passed by the senate would increase our countrys gdp, increase our countrys gdp, but i think, anywhere from 3 to 5 . And increase our budget deficit by almost 1 trillion. 1 trillion over the next 20 years. And yet just last week, we learned that our friends in the house of representatives the not to debate Immigration Reform this year. I believe this is a mistake. I truly hope theyll reconsider this decision. With that having been said, let me turn to my friend, dr. Coburn, and then well hear from our witnesses. I would ask unanimous consent that my remarks be without objection. Submitted. I would welcome each of you here. Ill make some observations, as ive studied this. Number one is that weve known about this problem escalating since january and yet there was no mention of it or any request for it in the president s budget. Number two is the best way to stop the flow is to send them back. I understand our 2008 law, in terms of the trafficking law, prohibits us to do that at this time in a timely manner, but, in fact, if we want to stop this flow. Number three, the root cause of this can be mediated somewhat by our ally, the mexican government. And whether or not weve done everything we can do in that regard to utilize their help in this problem remains to be seen. I want to welcome each and every one of you being here. And i submitted your questions ahead of time so we can get complete answers for the record. Thank you, dr. Coburn. I want to provide brief introductions for our witnesses and listen to you and well have a good conversation. Our first witness is no stranger here, craig fugate. William craig fugate. And mr. Few grait is the administrator of the federal Emergency Management industry. Mr. Fugate has helped coordinate Emergency Management efforts between all levels of government. External partners in the private and Community Sectors prior to joining fema, mr. Fugate served as the director of Florida Division of Emergency Management. Craig, nice to see you. Thanks for joining us and for your service. Second witness today is gale kerlikowske. In this position, he oversees this nations dual mission of protecting national and security objectives while promoting economic security. As commissioner, he runs the largest federal Law Enforcement agency and the second largest revenue collecting source in the federal government. Prior to joining cbp, mr. Kerlikowske was the director of White House Office of National Drug control policy, and as i recall, hes been the police chief in a place or two, maybe in buffalo and seattle, if im not mistaken. Our next witness is thomas minh minkowski. The through the criminal and Civil Enforcement of approximately 400 federal laws governing border control, customs, trade, and immigration. And most recently, he served as the acting commissioner prior to the appointment of mr. Kerlikowske. Next we have mark greenberg. Mark is an acting assistant secretary for the administration for children and families at the department of health and Human Services. Prior to this, he directed the Georgetown University center of public policy. During his career, hes, frequently provided Technical Assistance to state and local Government Regarding Poverty Reduction strategyings. Mr. Greenberg also serves as both the principle deputy, assistant secretary, and the acting commissioner for the administration of children, youth, and families. And our next witness is francisco palmiery, the Deputy Assistant secretary for the caribbean and for the department of state. Mr. Palmieri has served and has led the latin america and Caribbean Program officers where he sponsored over 800 million in programs, including the caribbean and mexican operations in 19 Narcotics Affairs offices throughout the western hemisphere. He serves as deputy executive secretary in the department of states executive secretary. Final witness is juan osuna. Mr. Osuna serves has director of the executive office for immigration review at the department of justice, leading up to his appointment as direct, mr. Osuna served as a Deputy Attorney general working as Indian Country matters and pardons and commutations. Prior to this year, we saw sifl immigration related litigation in the federal courts as Deputy Assistant attorney general in the Civil Division office of immigration and litigation. Hes also teaches immigration policy at George Mason University of law in arlington, virginia. Were delighted that youre here. Thank you all for your presence, for your preparation, for your testimony, and, craig, why dont you lead us off . Thank you, mr. Chairman, senator coburn and other senators the timeline fema is involved actually started about midmay. We were as part of the department in meetings where the secretary had craig, could you bring the mic a little closer . Yes. About midmay, the secretary had elevated the response based upon the number of children that were being held. At that time, fema offered what assistance we could. We werent sure if this was commodities or Technical Assistance. The initial assistance we provided was mainly advisory and Technical Assistance in helping identify some resources within the Faithbased Community for some immediate needs. Towards the end of may, about may 30th, there was a deputies meeting at the white house with the National Security council on this issue that we participated in, as fema. We were asked what else we could do. Based upon authorities that fema had received in the postkatrina Emergency Management format, as the principal adviser to the administration on Emergency Management issues, we felt that there would be some Additional Resources or assistance we could provide. Based upon that, we were asked by the president , through the secretary, to coordinate and again, i want to be very clear about this, a very narrow focus on supporting two lead agencies, custom and Border Protection, and the agency for children and families, officer refugee resettlement, focused on the humanitarian issues surrounding the children that were being held in detention because there was not enough capacity to place them in beds. So our focus has been using the framework through interagency agreements to formulate across the federal agencies existing authorities and existing funding to meet the needs of the humanitarian aspect of these children that were for being days held in detention cells, working across the interagency with everybody from gsa, department of defense, within our own department of Homeland Security, coast guard, and others for transportation resources. And again, the focus of our assignment has been on what we could do to either bring Additional Services in the field at the level that cbp had, or assisting children and families to getting more capacity to house children and process children. So through the interagency and the National Response framework, thats been our role. We have not used our authorities under the stafford act, nor have we used any disaster funds in that matter. Weve used existing funding that weve had. Most of the additional assistance that femas provided has been done through interagency agreements. Thats built in when we respond to disasters thats not stafford act. Similar to what we did in haiti, when under direction from usid, fema provided additional assistance in haiti. We did that through interagency agreements, where the Fund Transfers were done, so that we were performing work under existing funding to agencies that we were authorized to do. Since thime, weve added about 3,000 additional beds for children and families. Numbers have come down, but we still face the problem of too many children that were in detention for more than 24 hours. Too many children that are still in the custody of cdp for more than 72 hours before theyre placed. And although weve made progress, that progress is disrupted when we see sudden influxes of children coming in faster than we can discharge them and we back up. The last week, weve seen our numbers drop, but we have not been, what i would say, successful yet in ensuring that no child is in a detention facility for more than 24 hours and no child is in cdp custody for more than 2 hours. We work diligent ly to make sur were placing all of the youngest children. There was a massive effort to make sure that children under 5 were placed, and then children under 12, to get those children to an appropriate level of care. But the children continue to come across the border. Its a very fluid situation. Again, we will continue our role until such time as the system is stable and children are being placed in a timely manner and we will then, at that point, consider our part of this completed. Mr. Chairman . Mr. Chairman, thanks, mr. Fugate. And gil, please proceed. Gil kerlikowske. Yes, sir. Chairman carper, ranking chairman coburn, distinguished members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to appear before and discuss the role that the United States border and custom protection is doing to address this issue of influx of unaccompanied children. The Rio Grande Valley of texas has experienced a significant increase in illegal entrance, including increased numbers of unaccompanied children and family units. Most of these are from el salvador, guatemala, and honduras. I was confirmed for the position on march 7th and less than two weeks later, i was in the Rio Grande Valley in mckown, texas, to see this for myself and look at the challenge that men and women of customs and Border Protection were facing. Ive since made two return visits and im completely focused on though make sure we do everything we can to address this increased flow of children acrossing the border. The recent dramatic increase is difficult and distressing on a lot of levels. And today at this fiscal year, the number of unaccompanied children encountered by cdp is over 57,000. Its more than doubled compared to the previous year, and as of july 1st, there were just over 2,600 unaccompanied children in our custody. Were working closely with our counterparts to surge every available resource, personnel, facilities, equipment supplies, to quickly, safely, and humanely process these children in accordance with the 2008 Trafficking Victims protection reauthorization act, and to support the transfer of the custody to the department of health and Human Services. Were also surging resources to maintain Border Security operations. In addition, 115 Border Patrol agents were recently added to the south texas area and secretary johnson has also just added an additional 150 agents on top of that. Unaccompanied children are an incredibly vulnerable population. And while theyre in our custody, theyre provided shelter and medical assistance and basic necessities. These may be adequate for a shortterm stay, but cbps facilities are clearly not designed, nor were services put in place to accommodate such large volumes for an extended period of time. Were working with i. C. E. And health and Human Services and fema and others and the federal partner to ease these conditions through the utilization of alternate facilities, the Nogales Placement Center in arizona and a facility recently secured by the gsa for customs and Border Protection to use in mcalan to process and trailer hold children that are awaiting transfer to health and Human Services custody. The Border Patrol has established medical units at our busiest border stations. Were conducting Public Health screenings. We have the assistance of the United States coast guard corpsman and the Public Health services, so that all of these adult and child detainees can receive medical care. Fema has provided hygiene items, shower services, and many other things. Services that have improved the care for these detainees in the past several months. Assistance from nongovernmental and Charity Organizations have had a big impact on the governmentwide effort to accommodate these children. I could not say enough about them. The Additional Support has provided relief to these Law Enforcement agents and officers, who have been taking care of these kids. You know, ive been down there and witnessed firsthand these employees going above and beyond their regular duties. Theyre absolutely committed to making sure these children are treated in the most respectful and humane wait and heartfelt way possible under really difficult circumstances. Were working around the clock to address this issue. I appreciate the opportunity to be here and i would certainly invite all of you to tour and to visit these facilities and to see some of this firsthand and i know that some of you already have. Thank you. Thank you, mr. Kerlikowske. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today about u. S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement role in addressing the rise in apprehensions along the southwest border, namely the Rio Grande Valley, and our response. Mr. Chairman, i would like to thank you for your support and for taking the time this spring to visit mexico, guatemala, and el salvador in order to better understand the underlying causes of this search. Thank you very much. Through the whole government, we are determined to address the situation in a matter that is comprehensive, coordinated, and humane. On may 12th, secretary johnson declared a level 4 condition of readiness, which was the first step to bring the full interagency resources to bear. On june 1st, president obama, prudent to the Homeland Security act, directed secretary johnson to establish a unified coordination group. Craig talked about that. This Group Includes dhs and all of its components, the department of health and Human Services, defense, justice, and state and the General Services administration. When cbp encounters a child attempting to enter the United States, cbp begins the interview process to determine the childs status, review available documentation, and determine if the child is accompanied by a parent or a legal garden. Under the Trafficking Victims protection reauthorization act of 2008, or tbpra, an unaccompanied child who is a national of canada or mexico, may be permitted to withdraw his or her application for a mission and be repatrioted immediately. However, this is not true for the vast majority of children accounted in the Rio Grande Valley, because almost all of them are marbles of honduras, guatemala, and el salvador, and according to tvpra are required to be processed by receiving a notice to appear in order to see an immigration judge. Upon determining that an unaccompanied child does not have the ourpgsd tvpra to withdraw his or her application for a mission, cvp notifies i. C. E. And the department of Human Services offices of refugee resettlement. Once hhs notifies i. C. E. , a shelter bed is available pursuant to requirements of a law. It is i. C. E. s responsibility to transport the child to an oor shelter facility. I. C. E. Transports unaccompanied children villa ground, commercial, air, and i. C. E. Charter flights. In order to speed up the safe transportation of unaccompanied minors to oor shelters, i. C. E. Has leeds additional charter planes and is working closely with the Houston Airport Authority to have i. C. E. Escorting officers fly to houston, rather than making the trip to the Rio Grande Valley, where both inbound and outbound flights are limited. I. C. E. Is also using reverse escorting for unaccompanied children, where i. C. E. Enforcement removal officers from other parts of the country are assisting in transporting the Transportation Needs in the Rio Grande Valley, thus allowing for more escorting capabilities. All 24 of i. C. E. Ero field officers have primary and backup juvenile coordinators, each of who receive annual specialized training with respect to the unique vulnerabilities of children. In addition, i. C. E. Has detailed around 200 officers to the Rio Grande Valley to assist with the increased children and Transportation Needs. In addition, i. C. E. Has surged investigative resources for the prosecution of those who smuggle the children. On may 2014, there were 163 arrests of smugglers along the southwest border. The secretary has directed a 90day surge of i. C. E. Homeland security investigation special agents, 06 personnel, to offices in san antonio and houston that will work with the department of justice to ramp up the prosecutions of smuggling organizations. I. C. E. Is also building additional detention capability for adults who cross the border illegally in the rgb with their children. Recently, we have established a temporary facility for adults with children in arch tina, new mexico, and youre welcome anytime to visit. The establishment of this temporary facility will help cvp process those encountered at the border and allow i. C. E. To increase its capacity to house and expedite the removal or deal with the chirp in a matter that complies with federal law. Finally, we have worked with the government of honduras, el salvador, and gout mallla to repatriate the adults quicker, which has resulted in a quick process of travel documents moving to three days. Within the last several months, we have therefore reduced the expedited removal time of this population for those adults who fall outside the expedited removal process, the repatriation period has also dropped and we are sending them back much quicker than we ever have done before. So with that, mr. Chairman, i conclude my Opening Statement and look forward to answering your questions. Thank you. Thank you, sir, for your testimony. And mr. Greenberg, youre recognized at this time. Please proceed. Thank you. Chairman carper, Ranking Member coburn, members of the committee, thank you for committing me to talk to you about hhs responsibilities the in relation to unaccompanied children. Today i want to talk about the steps to care for the chirp when theyre referred to us. Our responsibilities to identify appropriate sponsors, with which the children can live, while theyre awaiting and enduring immigration proceed skpgs the challenges were facing as a result of the increased numbers of unaccompanied children. Under the law, when an unaccompanied child is in cvp custody, they refer the child to us. We fund shelters through grants to nonprofit organizations, a number of which are faithbased service providers. When a child arrives at a shelter, the child is provided with a complete medical exam within 48 hours, conducted by a doctor or a nurse practitioner. All children receive vaccinations and screening nor tuberculosis. Soon after the child comes to us, shelter staff conduct an initial interview with the child. The interviews are used as a first round of screening to determine if the child may be a victim of abuse, the victim of a crime or a Trafficking Victim and to determine if the child has any immediate Mental Health needs. These screenings determine whether the child need specialized services, a home study, prior to release to a sponsor, and whether the child is a potential victim of trafficking. Children in our shelters receive medical, dental, and Mental Health services, education services, opportunities for physical activities, a legal rights presentation, access to legal services, access to religious services, case management, and clinical counseling. While children are in our shelter, we then seek to place them with appropriate sponsors. Under the law, we have a responsibility to place children in the least restrictive setting thats in the best interest of the child. Today in fiscal 2014, about 95 of children who have left our shelters were released to a parent or relative or a nonrelative sponsor. If there is no appropriate sponsor, the child stays in our shelters until they turn 18, at which point theyre remanded to dhs custody, or in some cases, the child may be repatriated, or may qualify for immigration relief. Before we release a child to a sponsor, we verify the sponsors identity and relationship, if any, to the child. We the staff conduct an assessment of the childs past and present family relationships and the relationship to any nonrelative potential sponsor. There is a background check, including a public records check for a criminal history, interviews with the child to discover any criminal or Domestic Violence concerns, a written assessment of the child and the sponsor, that is completed by case managers and clinicians. A fingerprint check is required if any concerns are raised, including if there are concerns about the childs safety or if the sponsor is not the parent or legal guardian. As part of the process, hhs notifies potential sponsors that they have a responsibility to ensure that the child appears at all appointments and Court Proceedings relating to their immigration case. That the sponsor has a responsibility to cooperate if theres a removal order. Hhs also informs sponsors of the responsibility to notify dhs and the department of justice of any change of address and hhs also notifies dhs of the name, address, phone number, and relationship of the child to the sponsor, prior to the release of the sponsor and notified after the release is taken place. So, for us in recent months, the number of children arriving has increased markedly, straining our ability to place children in shelters, in timely fashion. Were actively working with our colleagues at dhs, department of justice, and other federal agencies through the coordination efforts from the department of defense at joint base san antonio lackland, ventura naval station, ft. Sill in oklahoma. Were continuing in our efforts to identify both public and private facilities. It is a complex situation with a number of challenges. We welcome working with the committee and congress in efforts to address it. Thank you, and ill be happy to answer questions. Thank you, mr. Greenberg. And miss palmieri, youre welcome and we welcome your testimony. Im pleased to be here to discuss the department of states response to the sharp rise in the number of unaccompanied children arriving at our border, with a direct link between this activity and dire economic and social conditions in the region. And what were doing to further the National Security interests of the United States. I appreciate your interests and look forward to working with you on this important issue. The administration is deeply concerned by the substantial increase in the number of children from Central America, who are leaving their countries and attempting unauthorized immigration to the United States. The department of state is implementing a fivepart strategy. We are working on a common approach to the problem, with the source countries of el salvador, guatemala, and honduras and with mexico in its role as a transit country. We are creating an updated public messaging campaign to discourage families from sending their sons and daughters on this dangerous journey. We are helping el salvador, guatemala, and honduras expand their repatriation and resb reintegration effort. Were working with them to interrupt the wellknown smuggling routes used in southern mexico. And finally, were leading a new effort tor address the underlying causes of this migrati migration, especially the security concerns. We know that these children are primarily arriving from el salvador, guatemala, and honduras. Central america faces daunting economic governance and security challenges, which impact the citizen s of the region and the choices they make. Our vision for Central America is a secure, wellgoverned region that creates opportunities for its people within its woerdborders. This is the only path to diminish the factors driving high immigration flows. The political, economic, and social conditions in el salvador, guatemala, and honduras are challenging. With extreme violence, endemic poverty, and weak public institutions. All combining to create an environment that many people want to abandon. Aggressive smugglers seek to exploit the situation. My colleagues from the department of Homeland Security, justice, and health and Human Services are described the scope of the enormous challenges they have faced in processing unaccompanied children, adults with children, and adults arriving at the border. They are working tirelessly to protect our borders, enforce our laws, and meet the pressing humanitarian needs of migrants, especially the children. This effort not only serves to enforce u. S. Laws, but is also the right thing to do to help these vulnerable children. Our diplomatic engagement in support of this effort has been sustained and intense. Last month, Vice President biden traveled to guatemala and met with the leaders to establish that we all must take steps to stem the flow of undocumented migrants. In panama, on july 1st, secretary kerry obtained an agreement on greater collaboration from the three governments. And on july 3rd, all three nations Foreign Ministers traveled to washington to meet with nine different u. S. Government entities at the department of state. At our request, all three countries have increased consulate Staffing Levels at the u. S. mexico border to expedite processing of unaccompanied children. The president spoke to mexican president enrique penneto in june about mexican efforts to improve the security at its southern border. We are working with mexico to accelerate its southern border strategy that will increase mexican inspection and intradiction capacities and reduce human smuggling across mexicos borders. As part of the broader interagency effort, we are also working to increase immediately the migrant repatriation capacity for el salvador, guatemala, and honduras, so that these governments can accept more migrants from the United States each week. Finally, the department continues to focus on a longer term approach to address the systemic issues Central American countries face, and that are creating the push factors behind this phenomenon. Were applying a more balanced regional approach to integrate prosperity, security, and governance assistance in order to reduce the root causes that are driving migrants to the United States. However, we must be realistic. In order to achieve the substantiative change in america, that truly will stem migration flows, all the governments must demonstrate the political will and necessary commitment. As chairman carpenter noted, it must be a shared responsibility. We will continue to work closely with congress on a comprehensive, whole of government approach, that provides the necessary resources to meet this migration challenge. Thank you and i look forward to answering your questions. Mr. Palmieri, thank you so much. And mr. Osuna, welcome and please proceed. Good morning, mr. Chairman, senator coburn and other committee members. Thank you for the opportunity to speak with you today about the justice Departments Executive Office for immigration review. Our agency is responsible for conducting civil immigration removal proceedings throughout our immigration reports throughout the country and our appellate level, the board of immigration appeals. Our case does follow Immigration Enforcement patterns along the border and in the interior of the country. Every individual that the department of Homeland Security formally charges with rebeing removable from the u. S. Results in another case for our Immigration Courts. With nearly 375,000 matters pending at the end of the june, we are facing the largest case load that the agency has ever seen. Overall, we have 243 Immigration Judges and 59 Immigration Courts around the country. Many of our courts are located at or near the southern border, including in san diego, el paso, and texas. Many of our courts are also located within i. C. E. Detention centers, for efficiency reasons, including the border locations of la mesa, california, and port isabel, texas. The highest priority cases have been those involving detaineed aliens, and the agency is focused on the timely and efficient adjudication of such cases. The Current Situation along the border is prompting us to reset our priorities across the entire Immigration Court system, not just courts and near the border, but across the entire system, as along with our federal partners, we respond to the president s request or directive to focus Additional Resources on the cases of recent border crossers. From now on, the following four types of cases will be a priority for the entire Immigration Court system. Unaccompanied children, detained cases involving adults who arrive with children, adults who arrive with children who are not detained because of lack of detention space, and regular detained cases. This means that these cases will go to the front of the line for adjudication, and Immigration Judges will be assigned to make sure these cases are heard promptly and ahead of all others. While in most cases there are already sufficient number of Immigration Judges assigned to hear regular detain ed cases, w will be assigning a significant number of judges to bring to a priority the other cases i mentioned, unaccompanied children and adults who arrive with children in recent weeks. This change has consequences for the broader Immigration Court case load, cases not considered a priority will take longer to adjudica adjudicate. However, given the seriousness of the situation along the border, it is the appropriate response by our agency, a part of the all hands on deck response that you mentioned, mr. Chairman. The utmost priority for every case, however, will remain that every fact is considered and every application of law is correct and that people appearing before our Immigration Judges receive due process of law. We will do these cases quickly, but we will do them right. In order to continue to meet the timely adjudication of cases, with the judges and staff that we need to process cases effectively and efficiently. In 2010, the department and our agency placed a great deal of emphasis on the hiring of new judges, and this was met be significant success, as we were able to ramp up pretty quickly. However, the effects of funding constraints over the last few years resulted in a hiring freeze in 2011 and that has had a worsening impact on eors operations, increasing the number of cases pending and extending Court Dockets further into the future. Earlier this year, the fy 14 appropriations act, and we are in the process of hiring more than 30 new Immigration Judges, that will be coming on board over the next few months, and those judges also, if necessary, will be assigned to prioritize the cases of recent border crossers. In march, the president sent his fifth fy 15 request to coke, for additional funding, and the president s request, once again, includes good funding for eor, that will enable us to hire more than 30 additional judges if that is approved. And finally, i would like to highlight the president s request yesterday for supplemental funding that was transit mi transmitted that includes funding for additional judge teams and additional efficiencies that will make these cases move through the court system more efficiently. And i ask for your support for that request as well. Mr. Chairman, senator coburn, despite the large case load that we face, we continue to meet every challenge presented. And this situation at the border is no different. With your support, we will contribute to the government in wide response that is called for. Thank you for your interest and i look forward to answering any questions that you might have. Thank you for your excellent testimony. Thanks to all of you. I want to start off by going back in time a little bit, but i want to talk about two Guiding Principles for me. All of us have our Guiding Principles that come from different experiences, different places, our parents, our faith. One of my Guiding Principles came from southeast asia. But i remember going into the makeshift office of my Commanding Officer in the navy, my squadron. And he had a cartoon blown up and mounted on his wall behind his desk. And it was a cartoon of a one person, a guy looking pretty disheveled, and on a very small island with one tree, and being surrounded by alligators who were trying to get him. And the caption under the cartoon was, its hard to remember that your job was to drain the swamp when youre up to your eyeballs in alligators. He used a different word than eyeballs, but one of my Guiding Principles is dont just address the symptoms of problems, but lets go to the underlying causes. We need to address the symptoms and theres a lot more we need to do and be your partner in doing that. We also need to make sure that were addressing the underlying causes. The other thing thats been helpful to me in my life is to try to figure out how to deal with a problem or a crisis, to ask the question, whats working . Someplace else. Figure that out and do more of that. Find out what works, do more of that. And if you look at and ive been john mccain was good enough to bring me down to arizona more than a year ago to visit the border of mexico and his state. Ive been from the Pacific Ocean to the gulf coast and weve seen a dramatic change in one, just the people that are coming across. And weve seen a dramatic change in weather coming across. Its kind of moved from west to east. And we there was a time when most of what the folks they were mexicans. A lot of them. And we still have mexicans who try to get into our country illegally, as you know, but not nearly as many as before. In fact, im told that the net migration may be going the other way. Back from our country into mexico these days. And the first question i want to ask in terms of finding out what works and do more of this. Why this shift in mexican migration . To almost maybe an outmigration. Why has this occurred and what can we learn from that . Weve seen those changes that have been very dramatic. By the way, i think every c. O. Must have had that same cartoon. But weve seen those changes, and i think because of the work that i did for the president on the drug policy issues, the safety and security that has increased within the government of mexico, the fact that Economic Opportunities are better now within mexico, and we know that in the three Central American countries that weve been talking about, neither of those Economic Opportunity nor safety and security have been something to write home about. Others, please . Mr. Kerlikowske . Thank you for that question. I agree with what the commissioner has said and i think you just have a whole different dynamic when you look at flows. We know with Central America, the difficulties they have down there with their economy and other challenges. As time goes on, youre going to see other parts of the world, for example, india, migration from india into the United States. And weve already seen spikes of that in the last few years. But the whole flow is changing. I just read yesterday where mexico has signed a 1 billion deal with bmw to build a factory down in mexico. The creation of more jobs in mexico and to the commissioners point, the economy is prospering there. It does come down to, i think, so much comes down to opportunity. And the folks that were encountering on the border, from guatemala, honduras, and el salvador, dont have that Economic Opportunity. Opportunit. Gangs, violence as well as family members here and thats whats driving it. Mr. Chairman, also i think you talk about whats working and the trade integration thats happened in north america between the United States remember canada and mexico has created a growing prosperity in mexico that has contributed to that new migration flows there. We do have a trade agreement with Central America. We need to push these countries to more actively inat the investigate their economies and take full advantage of that trade agreement and expand Economic Opportunity and job creation in their own countries as a way of stopping this as well. Thank you. A couple of weeks the Vice President was just back from guatemala. Secretary johnson is there today, is he not . And i was talking to the Vice President. I asked him trying to find what he learned and one of the things he told me is 80 of the folks, young kids, unaccompanied minors are coming from the worst neighborhoods. The worst communities, most dangerous violent neighborhoods about 80 . Put myself as a parent of adult sons, but put myself as a parent in honduras, guatemala, el salvador and i live in one of those communities with a lot of violence, not much opportunity, not much chance for an education to get a job and i hear that i have some folks willing for a couple thousand dollars take one or more of my kids out of that through mexico, across the border, welcomed there by our Border Patrol who are required by law to do that and accept and receive them, to care for them and eventually place them in a safe setting in many cases with member of their families who may be undocumented. Now, that is a strong magnet to pull young people out of those three countries and send them north through hellacious conditions. Putting my kids when they were 4, 5, 6 years old on top of a train sending them across the country, not in a train, on top of a Freight Train moving for 1500 miles. Who can imagine doing that. These people are desperate. How do we if i were in that situation i might do the same thing. How do we get to the people and change that mindset . How do we change that mindset to turn off the flow. So the parents say i want my kid to stay here, have opportunity and have a future here. How do we do that . I think theres several steps. For instance we talked about some of those. I think weve got to continue to work with guatemala, el salvador and honduras on capacity building. We need to stress to them the importance that they secure their borders. I know during my time in cbp that the Border Patrol and office of Field Operations spent a lot of time in guatemala stressing and showing different training and things of that nature. I have not been down to the border but what i have been told its very porous, very wideopen. We need to build capacity there, and, you know, dhs is the best in the business there when youre looking at already its the borders or detention sites. We got to dont focus in on that. I think the other areas mexico. You talked about that. I think we need mexico to continue to move forward here in helping us. As you mentioned these people are just walking through mexico, using mexico as a transportation corridor and showing up on our door step, and, you know, were america, and we do the right thing for these kids and adults. Nonetheless, it wears on the system. When you do apprehend, then you have to have a policy where these individuals are detained, and brought through the system quickly and a decision is made whether people get to stay here or they are removed. If they are going to be removed they have to be removed quickly so it sends a message, if you will, a deterrent factor. Were seeing that happening now, mr. Chairman in our new facility that we have, we just opened up in new mexico, family units, people saying that didnt realize i was going to detention i thought i was going to be released. We have a flight with the director supporting his judges moving hearings, moving much, much quicker. That begins that process of sending deterrent message. If were going to be successful in my view we have to do that. In my view, guatemala, el salvador and honduras have been good partners for us. I mentioned in my statement we took removal from 14 days to four days and a lot had to do with those three kruns giving us travel documents much more quicker. They have been a good partner in that regard but a lot more work to do to be done. Thanks for that. Im going to stop and yield. Mr. Palmieri, what actually is mexico doing to help us on this problem right now . Dr. Coburn, in the last year mexico has returned over 85,000 adults and children from its territory back to Central America. In the current fiscal the current calendar year they are on pace to return over 90,000 adults and children back to the countries of el salvador, guatemala and honduras. On monday the president announced the launch of its southern border strategy which they hope will increase their ability to interdict and disrupt these smuggling networks. All right, thank you. Mr. Winkowski, i have a question for you. Ive recently spoken to a whistle blower and i. C. E. Agent who shared with us often if we can get those posters up documented examples of terminated notices from unaccompanied alien children which you can see in these posters. The reason for these terminations, they are resulting in any and all removal proceedings, its lutzed as prosecution. Its transmitted back to the i. C. E. Agents. Explain to me, if you would what this prosectorial discretion under notices to appear. Under what policies and procedures does the chief counsel issue these. What is the reason they are issued. What happens to illegal alien children once their nta is cancelled. Is there follow up. Specific examples provided to us by i. C. E. Agent pds were issued for minors. Whats the status of a child given once their nta is terminated. What follow up is conducted to ensure the childs welfare and is the child able to attend school with no status . Well, obviously we have prosectorial discretion. We have the memo thats the document that guides what our priorities are. And lays those out, i think, very, very clearly. Im not familiar with this particular case. If you look at one case, if youve seen one case youve seen one case. Dont know all the details of why the nta was declined to be filed. Ill be more than happy to look into it. But im unfamiliar. Do you have any idea how often this happens . No. With children . No, i dont. I know that all the children, sir, are given ntas entered into removal proceedings. Okay. I would appreciate any feedback you can give me on that. Absolutely, sir. Mr. Greenberg, once the department of health and Human Services releases an unaccompanied child to a sponsor with a notice to appear before an immigration judge does hhs report to the department of Homeland Security on the number of uacs who have been released on their own recognizance . Dr. Coburn, we do not release unaccompanied children on their own recognizance. We only release them to a parents, relative or other sponsor. At the time when we do the rethrees the individual we provide the information about the whereabouts of the child to the department of Homeland Security both immediately prior to and immediately after the release. And the names of who they are placed with . Yes. We provide that information to the department of Homeland Security. After that fact do you track these children to ensure they appear at their imfwrags hearing . We do not play that role after the time we release the child then this subsequent issues relating to the immigration proceeding itself will be the responsibilities of the department of justice. Okay. In a june Conference Call with Congressional Staff hhs stated they are not mandated nor will they be checking immigration status of relatives or sponsors for the unaccompanied children. Im interested in the procedures hhs uses to verify the identity and immigration status of the individuals to whom the unaccompanied child is released. To clarify does hhs verify until Integration Status of the sponsors to whom the unidentified children are released . We verify the identity of the individual thats not the question i asked you. The immigration status. We do not verify the immigration status of the individual. Our focus in the release is first identify the least restrictive setting in the childs best interest. As we do that we also need to look at safety to the child, safety to the community, risk of flight, so we go through the overall process of looking at the individual placement to queen sure that it is a safe and appropriate placement for the child. Let me saw follow up question. Isnt it true that if you place an unaccompanied child with an illegal alien sponsor, that the significant likelihood is they would not want to bring that child to a deportation hearing before an immigration judge for fear they would expose their own illegal status . So, for us as we go through the process of identifying sponsors, we ensure that the sponsor understands they have a responsibility to make the child available for proceedings again thats not the question i asked you. The question i asked you was would it not be likely that they would not comply regardless of whether you tell them thats their responsibility if, in fact, they are an illegal alien to begin with, why would they expose themselves in front of an immigration judge . So, for the child in those circumstances, this, you know, this is about who the child should live with while they are awaiting removal proceedings and during the removal proceedings youre missing my point. My point is, is im all for having the children in the best place. Dont get me wrong. But if youre not checking immigration status of those that you place with them, and if, in fact, they are not here legally, the likelihood that her going to show up before a judge is markedly diminished because it exposes them. So the question i would ask you is why you dont ask for status of the people that you place these children with . So, the specific aspects of what happens in the proceedings are best addressed by my colleague at the department of justice. I one that. Im asking you the question why you dont ask the status of the people with whom youre placing the child . Why you do not ask that question . Because in all likelihood they are not going to show for an immigration hearing. So, for us the focus needs to be on a safe and appropriate placement of the child. Youre not going to answer my question. Why you do not ask that question of those people with whom youre placing these children . So even if we have the information as to the parent or other relatives immigration status we would still at that point need to look at the totality of the circumstances. I dont disagree with that. Im asking why do you not ask that question . Is it the policy of hhs not ask the status of the person with whom youre placing the child. We do not is that the policy of hhs of this country . Yes, it is. Thats the case. Yes. Let me run through the order of those, my colleagues who have come in to participate. Senator johnson is up next. Senator mccain. Thank you, mr. Chairman and thank you for holding this hearing and thank the witnesses. Mr. Greenberg, president of the United States, according to an article in the atlantic met with a group of advocates and others coalition for humane immigrant rights and others. And according to this article he told the groups he had to enforce the law even if that meant deporting hard cases with minors involved. Sometimes theres an inherent injustice in where you are born and no president can solve that obama said but the president must send the message that you cant just show up on the border, plead for asylum or Refugee Status and hope to get it. Quote, then anyone can come in and it means, of course,ively we dont have any kind of system. Obama said quote, were a nation with borders that must be enforced. Do you agree with that statement, mr. Winkowski and mr. Greenberg . Yes. Then i wonder why anyone would question the motivation for young people to come here since the latest information we have that in fiscal year 2013, 20,805 unaccompanied children from el salvador, guatemala and honduras were apprehended by the Border Patrol and in that same year, 2013, 1,669 of these unaccompanied children were repatriatated back to their home countries. If you were one of these children and you were there in one of these countries wouldnt you think your odds are pretty good . Yeah. But there is a a Legal Process. That Legal Process takes its time to make its way through the system and thats part of the challenge that we have that the director talked about from the standpoint of staffing of judges and just the Legal Process that takes place. It takes time to get to a point of removal in some of these cases. But despite what you have to say, mr. Winkowski, and youre sitting in el salvador and one out of ten dont show up with a permission slip, only one out of ten show up before a judge. Isnt that true . Ive heard that number, yes. Youve heard that number. You dontt know . You wouldnt know how many percentage dont show up with a permission slip for the judge . Yeah. Perhaps the chief judge can help me on that. Senator, if i may. Ive heard the 90 number and that number is actually not accurate. What is the accurate number . The accurate number were trying to get better data. The numbers for juveniles we have, we have juvenile numbers and overall numbers. The number that we have is that 46 of juveniles actually dont show up for their immigration hearings. Half the people. Only half the people. No. They are not showing up for immigration hearing carries considerable consequences. Whether youre an adult or a child or anybody that actually is issued a notice to appear and required to appear before an immigration judge and does not appear that judge issues an order of removal and that order of removal can be enforced after them not showing up. In 2013, 1,669 out of 20,805 were actually in that year returned. Thats one out of 20 roughly. So, i mean, the fact is that people show up and they have every reason to believe, according to these numbers and ill be glad to look at your numbers, even if its only half, that there is ample incentive for them to come to this country. The president initially said that he believed the Trafficking Victims protection act which would provide the same status for Central America as we have for mexico and canada, the amendment would be supported. Do you support that, mr. Winkowski . I support a system whether its i just asked if you support amending the bill. Im not asking what if you support amending the bill. Yes. Thank you. Mr. Winkowski, identify been representing the state of arizona for many years. And i have never seen anything like your instructions to signed by your name interim protocol for visitations and tours to cbp detention fasts. Are your telling me when i visit a detention facility that i cant bring a cell phone with me . Are you saying that . United states senator visiting a facility, these are the instructions that you have signed . Is that what youre saying . That the visitors this is a visiting congressional, member of congress. Dont recall saying that. What i recall is let me provide you with a copy. Says see distribution, r. Gil winkowski commissioner interim protocol for visibilityations and tours to cbp detention facilities. You didnt see your own memo . That would be me. Okay. That would be me. I did issue that memo. We have had huge numbers of am i allowed to bring a cell phone with me when i go on the a facility in nogales, arizona. Not take photographs. Why . The children have a the right privacy and thats why were not having their faces shown on i may want to take a photo of something else. If you want to take a photo we would make arrangements for you to take a photo just not of the children. Thats not the instructions you have given, sir. Have any physical or verbal contact with detained children unless previously requested and specifically oh, have any physical or verbal contact with cbp detainees and or staff . Your telling me i cant even speak to staff there snarkts im not telling you you couldnt speak to the staff. Why did you issue these instructions weve had requests by hundreds and hundreds im talking about members of congress, sir, which you said applies to members of congress. Im not asking about the hundreds. Im talking about the responsibilities i have in my own state. It does and we would make special arrangements for special considerations, senator. That is not according to your instructions and when i was there then the Border Patrol and the people there said that they didnt want me speaking to any of the staff or children. I view that as a violation of my responsibilities. Im not familiar with your youre not familiar. They were carrying out your instructions, sir. I want it fixed and i want it fixed immediately, understand. If a member of congress cant visit a facility in his own state, the people of arizona elected me and im not supposed to even carry a cell phone with me, you have overstepped your responsibilities and your authority, sir. And i want those instructions revoked as far as members of congress are concerned and i want it done today. Do you understand . Thank you, mr. Chairman. Our next senator to be recognized, senator johnson. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I come from manufacturing so root cause analysis is in my dna and mr. Chairman i think you asked the right question. How do we stop the flow . From my standpoint what is causing all the ilLegal Immigration in this country is we actually incentivize it. When we pass a comprehensive immigration bill in the senate that includes 262 billion in Welfare Benefits to nonu. S. Citizens that creates an incentive. When we ask money to beef up detention facilities to allow a greater time forced a to adjudication. Near incentivizing parents to put their kids at great risk coming across mexico because they know if they reach the Promised Land they are home free. Were creating incentives. When president obama two years ago issued a memorandum to defer action on childhood arrivals which codified fact we wont send people home were creating that incentive. Were trying to stop human trafficking. Are we actually increasing it because we have smugglers earning 3,000 per child . So i guess i would like to first of all, if were going to solve the problem lets understand the numbers. Mr. Kerlikowske youre the best person to ask this. How many unaccompanied children have come in to this nation since doca was issued two years ago. How many kids . I have the number of children that have been apprehended in this fiscal year of 57,000. I can give you the information on going back to doca. I would like that. Of 57,000 how many have been returned . We only the United States customs and Border Patrol is in the apprehension. So who would know the number of how many of those have been returned . The numbers i have that we talked about, about 1300, 1500. Very low percentage senator mccain was talking about. How many of those are from mexico . 57,000, how many are mexican citizen . The breakdown has been that honduras, el salvador, guatemala contain about 80, 78 to 82 of the people weve encountered. The rest are from other countries including mexico. A smaller number from mexico. The point im trying to get at is in the 2008 bill we created expedited procedures for people from contyingous nations, canada and mexico. If we have Illegal Immigrants from mexico are we actually expediting those procedure . Who can answer that . Department of justice, hhs. Who is doing this . Yes. If i remember the numbers correctly and i stand corrected, i think last year Border Patrol did expedited removal on 11,000 children, i believe. That made its way in on to United States, did expedited removal. Very little activity up in the northern border. I wouldnt doubt that. But, yes. Best of my recollection during my time Border Patrol was using expedited removal. Whats the timeline for deportation . I mean, how long does it take to go through the adjudication process. Lets first talk for the expedited procedures for mexicans and then i want to talk about other than mexicans. My understanding of expedited removal its immediate. Virtually immediate for people that come in. If theres 20 that are basically mexican which is expedited procedures, 20 of 57,000 is roughly 10,000, right . Yeah. 10 to 11,000. Why we only deported 1700. The number of 11,000 the Border Patrol executed from an experiod dited removal standpoint. Under the expedited removal rosees you have to determine a couple of things. So how long does that take to determine a couple of things. Under expedited removal its very quick. Kit be the same day. So, again, if 20 of the 57,000 unaccompanied children are mexican, subject to those expedited procedures it could be the same day how come we only deported what is it senator mccain, 1700 . When the number is closer to 10 or 11,000. I think the number that i was quoting was from the south Central American countries. To include mexico. Try to break them into different buckets here. Mr. Winkowski. Senator, the vast majority of immigrants that are here illegally that are apprehended at the border from mexico are returned almost within the same day and we can so they move very quickly. Unaccompanied children in mexico not counted in your 57,000 . A part of those 57,000 are those unaccompanied children from mexico. Many of them are returned within the same day. Ill be ethiopia give you give me those numbers. Ill be happy how long does it take in terms of other than mexico, other than canadians to actually go through adjudication process and actually be deported . Senator our Immigration Court system has no direct role with the expedited removal process. Let me talk about the process whereby somebody gets brought into the country and put through removal proceedings. We break these down between detained and nondetained. If youre a detained docket about 40 of our dockets are individuals who are detained while awaiting a hearing before an aim integration judge those cases move quickly. I dont have a number. But move within a matter of a few weeks to a few months. If they are on nondetained dockets those take a long time. Few weeks, few months but weve only returned a fraction of the 57,000 were talking about here. Again, what youre saying doesnt add up with what the numbers are. Let me just make my final point because im running out of time. I ran out of time. I cant think of a more humane thing to do, you know, maybe sounds cruel, but then to deter parents from sending their dhoirnl the United States. I cant think of a better way to deter parents from doing that is to literally take these minor, identify where they came from, you know, identify gone online, it costs 207 on a one way trip in terms of plane flight. Put them into a hotel, feed them and return them to the country of or gain because i cant think of a better signal to parents in guatemala and el salvador and honduras to say do not subject your children to the beast. Do not subject your children to rape and murder. Dont send the home the United States because when they get here they will not be allowed to stay. Theres 7 billion people in this country that dont live in america. Many would like to come. We got to come to a decision in this country whether well have totally open borders or a Legal Immigration system which i want to fix this. We have to address the root cause. The root cause literally is we got to stop incentivizing parents and other immigrants coming in to this nation. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Next, senator ayotte would have been next but she stepped out for a moment. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I appreciate our witnesses for being here today on a very important hearing. I want to start with a little questioning on what sort of data and statistics we do have available. I know theres a lot of questions about why. And how long this has been going on. We have some very recent statistics that have been shared. But i would like to get a better sense of whats out there and what you can furnish to us as a follow up to this hearing. And so, i start i know youre fairly new to the post, mr. Kerlikowske. You talked about 57,000 unaccompanied minors this year. Do you collect, in terms of border crossings of unaccompanied minors, do you have can you give us month by month, year by year data going back over several years, and when we sort of declared crisis in recent months but it seems to me that this is of some duration. Youre absolutely right, senator. The increase this year so far and we still have three months left in this fiscal year has doubled from the year before, and that year doubled from the year before. In early 2013 a number of interagency colleagues, defendant Homeland Security, department of justice, health and Human Services all met to begin to address this issue, particularly in the Rio Grande Valley. We can give you details going back month by month, year by year. Okay. I would appreciate that. And then, mr. Winkowski, im curious to know also what sort of data you can provide us. Weve testified in an order of border crossings and then issuance of notices to appear. And then, of course, for unaccompanied minors would be then referred to dhss. Mr. Winkowski, can you provide us with year by year and month by month data on issuance much notices to appear to unaccompanied minor . Absolutely. Yes. Okay. And then mr. Greenberg, you received referrals from immigration and citizenship. Can you also provide and would you characterize for us before providing that specific and more granular data sort of the numbers youve been seeing recently . Yes. We would be able to provide for the children referred to us we can provide country of origin, sex, the age of children and then when the child goes to a parent, relative or other sponsor what the nature of that placement is. Okay. That will be appreciated. And then mr. Osuna, you gave us some very recent statistics on record levels of cases pending. But i would also appreciate, again, a more, a longer timeline and more granular data for us to get a greater understanding than your testimony provided. Would be ethiopia provide that, senato would be happy to provide that, senator. I have a question and i think ill start with mr. Palmieri. What do we know about migration of unaccompanied minors to, from honduras, el salvador and guatemala to other Central American countries or south american countries . What sort of information could you share on that . It appears the primary route that el salvadorian and guatemalan and honduran migrants and unaccompanied children are taking are north. There are reports that some do seek to stay in mexico if they can. Part of the mexican effort at the border with guatemala is they are trying to issue better documentation of people who are entering their country so that they can track those, those visitors in a better way as they move through the country and to see where they are ending up. It is without a doubt the large numbers end up at our border. Absolutely. For mr. Osuna, we know that many of these unaccompanied minors have fled violence. We also know that many have arrived in the United States in the hand of human traffickers. And may have been further victimized on the route to the u. S. Border. Under the Trafficking Victims protection reauthorization act and understanding that asylum officers operate under a Different Department than you, could you still tell us the standards by which those officers and Immigration Judges upon review will determine which children qualify for asylum or special immigrant juvenile status and therefore can remain in the u. S. Under the 20808 law . Senator, the rules for asylum that our Immigration Judges apply in childrens cases in terms of the Legal Standards are the same for all other asylum applicants. They are set in statute and regulation and interpreted over the years by case law. Thats not any different whether the person appearing before a judge is an adult or a child. What is different is the process. If a child is eligible for or appears to be eligible and wants to apply for asylum or special immigrant status the initial jurisdiction over those cases rests with the u. S. Cis. So the judge has to basically suspend adjudication of the case for the moment, refer it to dhs and they make initial call on asylum. You mentioned that the standards were the same regardless of acminor or an adult. What are some of the generally speaking remind us. An provide applying for asylum has the burden of showing that he or she fears persecution, has a well pounded fear of persecution is the Legal Standard based on one of five ground. Race, nationality, political opinion or membership in a particular social group and thats a law going back to 1980. Thank you. Senator landrieu. First let me thank you for calling this hearing. Its extremely important. Very timely. Given that the president is asking for a 3. 7 billion supplemental, which came to congress and the Appropriations Committee members of which im one and the chair of this committee, Appropriations Committee will have to really carefully consider as to how were going allocate these dollars to solve the problem. Number two, i cant think of two better people literally who have, you know, calm thinking about how to figure this out and to get to the root of the problem and then to help us allocate the dollars wisely and hold people accountable for doing the job. You two have roven yourselves and both senator carp per and senator coburn you have been strong on accountability which i would like to join both of you on. But i think first of all, i want to make sure, and it was just said finally, the laws that are governing this, because theres some confusion and i just want to submit to the record what my staff and i have been researching about the laws, because i think we should start there and then policies and rules that may need to be adjusted or changed or perhaps some laws need to be changed. But the basic law, you just said it, is the asylum law of 1980. Could somebody talk for one second not one second, 30 seconds about the asylum law in 1980 and what it said. Go ahead. Via 1980 refugee act which is enshrined in our statutes these days implemented our International Obligations with regard to refugees. Adults and children show up at our borders. Talk about that. Its by the way the same law that our colleagues at the state department apply overseas. But if somebody, anybody who arrives at our shores since 1980. Anybody that arrives at the shores, go ahead. Can seek asylum and they have to say they are fearful. That was passed in the Reagan Administration . I think it was right at the tail end of the carter administration. Carter administration. Thats the law today. Thats correct. Then there was a second law, there was a second law, when the department of Homeland Security was created, senator feinstein had a standalone law. Does anybody want to comment about what that law is because it has a bearing here. It was incorporated in the you should all know this incorporated into the creation of the department of Homeland Security. Is anybody familiar with that law . The Homeland Security act of 2002 correct. If i recall correctly hit to do with the expedited removal it divided the responsibilities for the procession and treatment of unaccompanied minors between the department of hhs and department of health and human service. And then in 2008, in the trafficking against trafficking law, in 2008 which was sponsored by biden and brownback, all of these are bipartisan, there were further there were further additions to this law which basically said children from contyingous countries, mexico and canada would qualify for immediate repatriation and children from. Nonc noncontyingous states could be repatriated. I think before we start getting opinions to get the basis of the law. Do you agree . Amen. If this is not correct i would like to know before the end of the day. Because i do need a plan. It needs to be fixed. That needs to be changed to solve this problem. So this is the law and we should talk about what the law says, what the law we think the law should say and then figure out how were going to deal with this problem. Let me ask you, mr. Fugate, because ive had a lot of experience and you know, a lot of experience with fema and how much i believe in you, your leadership and your ability to solve emergencies. So im glad the president asked fema to step into this situation and try to sort out and give immediate assistance for the immediate crisis on the border which is in senator mccains state primarily and texas i understand why hes very upset. But let me ask you, mr. Fugate, do you have Budgetary Authority over this 3. 7 billion . Where does your authority begin and where does it end, in your mind now . Currently not in the supplemental will i have any Budgetary Authority. You have no Budgetary Authority in the supplemental. No, senator. Do you have any authority for the money being spent now . No, senator. So who does have Budgetary Authority for the money spent now the agency as the budget was passed the authorization and appropriations for those agencies. So with the president s direction i gained new authorities. Unless an agency was authorized to do the work they were doing or had funds or Congress Granted transfer authority within those funds, i had no new authority. Why did president give the authority. Why didnt he give them the authority. Whats in your authority . The Homeland Security act, the postkatrina reform act, a the president and congress on Emergency Management matters. We took the approach when asked to assist this was a humanitarian issue and that we have the ability to work across all agencies. We have authorities within a National Framework to set up and operate under interagency agreements to transfer funds from one agency to another who may have capabilities but not authorization or funding. Again this is what we did in earthquake in haiti where we used federal resources to support usaid. Let me ask you this because my time is short and i want to get to dhh because this is what im very concerned about. I agree that the children need to be handled potentially different than other immigration issues and that health and Human Services has a role but my concern, mr. Chairman, is that i am fairly current and up to date on the very mediocre job thats being done in our own foster care system in the United States today and let me give you some statistics on any given day we have 500,000 kids in foster care. I mean in the United States. 691 new children come in to our foster care system in 50 states. So, with a high caseload by casey and pew, low high turnover rate of social workers, not enough judges anywhere, were getting ready to add to the system thats not the strongest, this group of children that have no paper work. Or little paper work. Many have no birth certificates. So im really concerned about this as all of us are. So im going end because ive gone over my time with just saying what ill be focused on is accountability, who is in charge, what the plan is, who will be held responsible before we spend 3. 7 billion in addition to the 2. 5 thats already in four appropriation bills that are moving their way through the process. So we got a lot more questions to be answered before i think we run too far ahead. Not that let me just speak for myself. I want to be helpful. I absolutely want to be helpful. But do i have quite a few more questions. Thank you. Those are great questions. Thank you for spending some time down in guatemala and we applaud you four concern. Senator mccaskill. I would like to talk about the push factors that are causing families and by the way all these cultures are very family centric and the notion that they are sending their children off on a very dangerous proposition speaks to the real problems they have in their countries, and obviously the root of the problem is the lack of rule of law. In these countries. Now back in 2010 we began a program called the Central America Regional Security initiative called carsi. From 2008 to 2011 u. S. Agencies have allocated 350 million to help the exact countries that they children are coming from with the problems of corruption, gang activity, lawlessness, all of the things that are causing these families to be ripped apart. Now, im assuming and please confirm for the record that both doh and state use contractors for this program, the carsi program . Yeah, thats correct. All right. I have looked and i cant find any i. G. Reports on any of these programs. Are you aware of any analysis that has been done about the effectiveness of these programs . Yes, i am aware that there have been there was a gao report that was prepared on carsi. I did find the gao report. I didnt find the i. G. Report. Are you aware of any i. G. Reports im not ware but will check. The gao report found the state department didnt provided equate in couldnt oversight in other programs that weve looked at. I guess my question is how many in couldnt Contracting Officers representatives do you have for these contracts . I will have to get that number for you. I would like to know also how many contractors we have overseeing contractors on these contracts . Because what we found in the past is the contractors are watching the contractors and sometimes the contractors are hired to come in to testify about the contractors overseeing the contractors. Can you provide us the list of the contractor the scope of the contract as well as the oversight being conducted on each contract managed or comanaged by state, usaid in guatemala, el salvador and honduras. Ill take that back. We have no indicators the money were spending these programs are working. And tens of thousands of children showing up at our border is a metric that what were doing is not working very well. Some metrics have been done. In the limited areas where our assistance is operating particularly the model police precincts, the Community Policing programs, Youth Outreach Centers that usaid is running, we have seen and been able to document with metrics a decrease in violence. A decrease in gang activities. The problem is the limited nature of those programs the scope is not systemic enough. Recently in honduras, the president , new president took office in january. Has put up an additional 600,000 of honduran money to begin replicating some of the aid Youth Outreach Centers because they had an impact. We have some metrics showing that these programs are having an impact on some of the systemic conditions. The problem is replicating them quickly and theyve been limited in scope because of the amount of Funds Available for them. This is a real important issue, getting on top of what were doing now and whether its working in these countries because as my colleagues pointed out, these children, it is it would be much better for them to be reunited with their families in these, in their home countries in an environment that is safe. That is the best possible outcome. So if weve got something thats working, it is time for you tool say hey this, is what were doing thats working and its working here and we can show its working here and thats something, the administration aware that you have programs that are working well in some areas and is that part of their request of this money . Yes. Yeah. How much of the 3. 5 billion is for replicating programs that you maintain are working now . The supplemental request includes 295 million for expanded economic support from programs in the region, most of those most of that money will go to programs that we think are having an impact and that will have an Immediate Impact in the region. Im very anxious to get into the weeds on this. I want to understand what these contracts are, who are doing them daytoday. What are the metrics. How does it indicate they are working and whats the cost replication and i want to track that back to the president s analysis. If we can do it in these host countries as opposed to trying to absorb all these children into our systems that weve already heard is already stressed, it would be a huge, Huge Positive outcome for these children. We agree. One other aspect of the president s request, though, while carsi has been a security driven program, expanding police precincts, commanding Community Policing, providing Youth Outreach Centers as part of antigang activities the request also includes funds because we believe that we need to get more balance in the u. S. Assistance approach to region that weve got to help also on Economic Growth and job creation side. So there are funds in there that also we think will make an Immediate Impact on jump starting the economies because i think well all agree better job opportunities, better Educational Opportunities in this vij way to keep people at home. I agree. Balance is important. We were spending 327 million in mexico. Just to give you a sense of the imbalance that occurred at that time. Finally, briefly, ill take this for the record because i know im over my time, but i think its really important we focus on the structural and systemic obstacles to the backlog of undetained. Ten years ago, ten years ago we had a year long backlog of european detained. And we had 150,000 cases in a backlog prior to these thousands of children coming to our border. So this is a long running problem and the notion that we cant figure out the systemic things that we need to do and a lot of it is fixing the laws that senator landrieu just went through, i think were kidding ourselves that were not going to be dealing with this kind of crisis on an ongoing basis until we get at the systemic problem because this is a backlog thats a decadelong. Not just this crisis backlog. Thank you. Great points. Senator ayotte. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I wanted to ask about the conditions upon which these children are being brought up here by the smugglers. As i understand it there are girls are being raped, as i under it, and boys too. Children being abused. What are the conditions upon which we talked a lot about the conditions in the countries and how bad they are, but what are these children being subjected to, and how much are they subjected to these criminal syndicates who are making money off this and exploiting these children and what are we talking about is happening with these children . Senator, a couple of things that i think are important. One is that almost all of the children that are being brought into the country are being brought through smuggling organizations. Oftentimes the smugglers are juveniles themselves. This is a money profit issue. Often controlled overhead by cartels. Their two modes much transportation we see right now one, of course, has been cited as the train that comes up and people taking that dangerous journey on train. Also a large number of charter buses. Mom and pop charter buses driving up here. Then the children, the people are held in what are called stash houses on the mexican side of the border until they can come. The dangers of abuse including just recently the body of an 11yearold boy found in texas are enormous. So dead little boy, as i understand it, children being raped, correct. Yes, maam. And exploited. And so one of the things that concerns me is that were sending a dual message. So were sending a message, theyve gotten an impression in those countries that if you send your child on that journey, that, yes, youre leaving, obviously, the conditions that we want to work more effectively to improve in those countries, but they are going on this deadly journey in some instances, or just a journey that can change who they are for the rest of their lives because weve said they are getting an impression in their countries that once they get here they can stay. And so what concerns me is that our policies that were sending this message that they can stay is also inhumane in the sense that they children are being put on this deadly journey. So, if you could comment on that in terms of how important it is that people understand from those countries a clear message from the United States of america not to send your child on this journey because of whats happening to your child, but also if they got the message that were going to follow our laws and they wont be able to stay as humane as we all want to be, its inhumane to send them on this journey. Senator, if senator coburn wouldnt mind if we could also show the poster thats an example of one of the posters. Dplees. Thats going up all over in Central America. They are going up in bus placards and overheads on highways. This essentially says, i thought it would be i thought my son would be able to get his papers in the United States, in the usa. Thatstates. That wasnt true. There are other posters, radio spots, Television Spots being broadcasts. These three countries, by the way, working with their embassies are also very supportive in doing their own messages. Two parts. Its dangerous to try and make this journey, and you will not be given a free pass. Well, i appreciate that were doing this Public Information campaign, but our leaders need to be clear. And i saw that secretary johnson on the sunday shows was pressed no less than six times if these minors, if they came here through this deadly journey whether they would be returned to their countries, and he would not answer that question. And so in addition to that, the White House Press secretary was asked that very same question about the ambiguity in which these children would be treated, and he said that the law will be applied but he wouldnt answer the question. So its one thing for us to put up a Public Information campaign, but if the leaders of our country and the leaders in these positions arent clear as to what our intention is and that we intend to follow our law and if we have a system where only as senator mccain asked, only one out of ten are actually going to show up for the proceeding and actually go through the process, then were talking out of both sides of our mouths and were doing a disservice to these children because were sending this message to parents that, yes, please take this risk, send them on the deadly journey, and when they get here, they really wont be permitted to stay, which is contradictory to these messages. I think we need to speak clearly with one voice. I would ask you to comment on that. Would the senator yield for a second . The number one message to stop this is planes arriving in honduras and guatemala with these children back home. That sends the message. This, as long as its less than 10 , wont stop anything. When they see them returning after making this harrowing trip, thats when theyre going to get the message. Until that happens, its going to continue. Well, as a followup, i would ask, you know, our law, as i understand it, one of the issues is the legal treatment is different between, for example mexican, canadian, those children that would come, and the population were talking about from el salvador, guatemala, honduras, and i guess im not clear why we should make that distinction in the sense that one set of children both set of children as we think about it could be as vulnerable to trafficking. So do you think that this distinction in our law should continue to exist . This one that is making it more difficult for you to give the option of returning these children more quickly as soon as they return. I know we have talked a lot about it at this hearing, but whats your position on it . Senator, i know the law from 2008 was passed with all of the emphasis to prevent these children from being trafficked, particularly sex traffic well, now theyre being trafficked. And others. I think that what were interested in is certainly the flexibility. I think it has to be carefully considered because of the reasons that Congress Went to such trouble to spend that time and effort passing that original law. But from our standpoint, from the customs and Border Protection standpoint, the ability to have some flexibility would be very helpful. Okay. Thank you. Let me just make a couple quick points before i recognize senator hooig camp. One, we mounted a Truth Campaign in this country to try to convince kids to stop smoking. Hugely successful. Hard hitting. What we need here is, i think, a Truth Campaign. Im pleased to see theres some money in the president s proposal, i think 5 million, to mount a Truth Campaign. I think it has four pieces to it. Youve mentioned a couple. One of those is to remind the parents down there of the perils they subject their children to if they put them on that train to come up here. Second is reminding them of the reception theyre going to get here. It cant be one with open arms, youre going to stay here for an indefinite period of time. The point that tom raises, the idea that folks can be returned, including young people are going to be returned in a number of cases. The message is this. Its a message of hope in their own country, that they can have a future, that they can have a good life, provide for themselves and live in safety. The fourth piece is important as well. All right. Thanks. With that, senator heidt camp. Thank you. I apologize for not having been here during some of the other discussion. I had to go sit in the chair. This is an issue that im deeply concerned about on a number of levels. Youre hearing kind of a broad scope of concern for the children, the safety of the children, but also concern for the safety of our border. And who are these kids . I know that senator baldwin asked for a number of metrics in terms of the age of the children. She asked a number of questions regarding who they are, male, female. And i think that one of the things we need to be very, very careful about here is our assumption about why these kids are here and why the kids are coming to the border. A lot of us have talked about their parents sending them here for rescue or safety reasons, for a better life. We need to be very careful that not every kid is going to fall into that category. And that not doing the metrics on the front end is disturbing because who are these kids . You have 72 hours to process them. I guess my first question would be to you. I would like to thank you for coming to north dakota. Your work as the drug czar has made a very, very significant and important contribution to my state. So i just want to publicly acknowledge you, and im grateful youve taken on this new level of public service. Kind of from the pot to the frying pan here in crisis. But i want to just ask you, whats your judgment in terms of percentages looking at the numbers . And are your Border Agents trained and sophisticated enough to create categories of kids, whether they are gang bangers coming in here to seek a new level of contribution in terms of the underground and crime. Are they kids who arent just being smuggled . Because theres a difference between smuggling and trafficking. So we just need to make that clear. It doesnt mean that kids who are being smuggled dont eventually become trafficked, but how many of these kids are actually initiated into this process in a trafficking category . And then what are their ages . So can you just kind of give me what your sense is right now . My sense having watched it pretty carefully in mcallen, brownsville, and other places and watching these experienced Border Patrol agents interview and talk with these young people is theyre theyre very sophisticated, these agents at