Transcripts For CSPAN Justice Department Officials Testify On Foreign Agent Registration... 20170729

Kinship between the pope and the president. Now they are really worried about it. All weekend every weekend on cspan3. Next Justice Department officials testify on Foreign Agent Registration Requirements. Horowitz discusses a review his Office Conducted looking at the Justice Departments enforcement of the Foreign Agents registration act and outlines rich outlines recommendations for enforcement practices. This is an hour and half. I want to think the witnesses here today scheduling this hearing. I know some of you had to change her travel plans and the committee appreciates your cooperation. To postpone this hearing while trying to schedule to schedule two new witnesses and of taking the cooperation of a was first invited on july 5. Unfortunate one on cooperative witnesses cause unnecessary inconvenience for those of you who are easy to work with. After he failed with Dean Committee in good faith. I issued a subpoena and cooperation with senator feinstein to Glenn Simpson for his appearance today. About number one his involvement in creating the trump dossier and interactions with df dei. Thehis alleged work with Foreign Agents who met with trump family. Regarding mr. Manna fort, that Ranking Member feinstein and i , and irking on with him issued a subpoena for his appearance. Following consultation with the Ranking Member and document production for mr. Manna fort, i withdrew the subpoena and we continue to negotiations for a future transcribed interview. With respect to mr. Trump he agreed early on to cooperate, produce documents into a voluntary transcribed interview. Then will not appear on panel to today. Todays topic is as important now as it was in 1938 when congress enacted the law. There are two qualifications to be considered a Foreign Agent under the Foreign Agents registration act. The first is working directly or indirectly for a foreign principal. A foreign rinse a poll be a Foreign Government, cooperation or single individual. Is tocond involvement influence u. S. Policy either as a publicity agent or lobbyist among others. The basic idea is foreign propaganda should not lurk in the shadows but should be fully transparent. The Foreign Agents registration act does that by requiring agents to register with the Justice Department. People should know if Foreign Governments or Political Parties are trying to influence policy or Public Opinion. And other efforts to influence our elections, this law has never been more important it appears the justice fbi lack innd the the foreign registration act and for a long time. In the past 12 years the department has sent only 178 to people he believes should register as a Foreign Agent. Letters with 15 what the Justice Department thinks they happen to think i send more letters than that in one week. Fulltimepeople work to enforce this law and monitor potential unregistered Foreign Agents. It is no surprise 400 Foreign Agents are only registered. Does anyone seriously think only set aside money for prn lobbying work. Investigators or Justice Department officials cant even agree on what makes a good case for enforcement on this law. It is no surprise that the Inspector General found there is no comprehensive department strategy. Between 1966 in 2017 the Justice Department not only seven criminal faith criminal cases. It has been 26 years since the Justice Department used civil injunction relief. Why comply when the Justice Department clearly doesnt treat this law as a priority . I wrote about efforts to influence u. S. Policy by leveraging his close relationship with secretary flynn. Records reported that mr. Blumenthal transported documents to secretary clinton on behalf of a Political Party and the country of georgia. The Justice Department never explained why did not require if the Justice Department did nothis at tiffanys require registration, it should simply say so. Particularly when the Trump Administration requires Michael Flynn to retroactively register under the law in a large part because he wrote an oped for the hill newspaper. It also required Paul Manafort to register for their work on behalf of the ukrainian government. There has been a lot of Foreign Agents attempting to influence u. S. Policy. A group of unregistered agents allegedly worked to undermine the act. Act was passed in honor of who uncovered. Assive financial fraud he was then arrested by the same corrupt officials and later died in prison under suspicious circumstances. The act allows the president to sanction individual human rights abusers and freeze their assets and the use s and freezes their assets in the u. S. He was mr. Browders lawyer and and in 2016 he filed a complaint with the Justice Department enforcement unit. He alleged that a group of unregistered agents would overthrow half of the russian government to get rid of the new law named after his late friend. He said these unregistered agents lobbied congress. He said take organized a screening of a propaganda video with staffers and state department officials. Video smeared them. What this represents is a pretty cute operation. The Foreign Agents also published have again that news outlet. As we learned after this hearing they probably lobbied even the Trump Campaign and trump family. Department to not require any of them to register as Foreign Agents. One of them is Glenn Simpson. I have been asking about the who are working to smear mr. Browder and undermine the act. His company is the same firm that oversaw the creation of the unverified trump dossier. Helped ame time they campaign to repeal the magnetic ski act. There are public reports that the fbi used the dossier to kickstart the russian investigation. Does the fbi know they pitched propaganda . Will what they say about its reliability if it was represented to any court . Two other individuals have been in the news lately. Lawyer. T is the russian name we will just referred to her as russian agent xyz or something. A Russian Company we see millions of hours connected why. He crime the other is not mentioned. Americanussian lobbyist. The New York Times described him as a master of the dark arts. These two where reportedly at the meeting with the Trump Campaign and family members last summer. They reportedly offered dirt on the opponent to get a meeting and made their pitch against the act. Was it a come was it a clumsily great and switch . Someully we will get answers from mr. Trump and mr. Manna fort on that point. Details ofo produce mr. Simpsons role on this event. Knowing exactly who is acting on behalf of the russian government is vital. Thats why pharaoh must be enforced consistently and evenhandedly. Other words it wont be taken seriously. To discussing with the witnesses. To turns my pleasure the table over to my Ranking Member. Thank you for bringing everybody up to date on a discussion on the witnesses that were on the schedule here but not at the present time. The Foreign Agents registration act, or what our chairman correctly set is called it is an important issue, particularly at a time where we face interference by a certain country. It was enacted in 1938 a long time ago. It was enacted to ensure that the public was aware of efforts by the German Government and not the party to use the network of United States citizens to sway Public Opinion and United States policy in germanys favor. The law requires an individual foreignon behalf of a government or foreign interest to register with the department of justice. Whenquires disclosure activities are directed. Because of the high profile cases involving Michael Flynn, who registered retroactively for work he did under the turkish government. At the same time he was advising the Trump Campaign. Former Campaign Manager Paul Manafort also registered in 2017 for nearly 17 million for lobbying work on behalf of the prorussian party of regions in ukraine between 2012 and 2014. Unfortunately, late registrations under fara are not a new problem nor are they limited to these two examples. In september of 2016, the Justice Department ig reported that 62 of the registrations that it had reviewed had been filed late. 50 were incomplete. Ill let you draw your conclusions from that. My conclusion is that our authorities dont take the law seriously and we need to change that. There appears to be no meaningful penalty for late or incomplete filings and over the past 50 years the Justice Department has prosecute edd only seven fara cases. Instead, where violations are discovered, the department encourages compliance, creating a system where there are no consequences for failing to follow the law so i look forward to hearing from our Witnesses Today about whether and if what changes should be made and whether the current law is adequate so once again i thank you for solving our problems with the other witnesses and i look forward to the testimony. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Well, we sides your thanking me, youve been very cooperative and appreciate it very much. Thank you. Im going to introduce the witnesses and then ask you to stand and be sworn. Adam hickey is Deputy Attorney general for National Security division, doj. He manages the National Security divisions efforts to combat National Security threats from 2013 to 2015 mr. Hickey was the acting deputy chief of cyber for the counterintelligence and export control section of the National Security division. Mr. Hickey was also a federal prosecutor. Thank you for being here. Mr. Priestap is an assistant director for the Counterintelligence Division at the fbi. He previously served as Deputy Assistant director of Intelligence Operations Branch in the directorate of intelligence at fbi headquarters. He has worked at the fbi since 1998. Thank you for being here. Michael horowitz has been a frequent witness before our committee, is an Inspector General for the Justice Department. He was confirmed april, 2012, and oversees a nationwide work force of more than 400 employees. Immediately preceding this post he was in private practice and also previously worked for the Justice Departments Criminal Division division. This mission is to promote economy and efficiency and deter waste fraud and abuse in the department of justice. We thank you for being here and would you stand now at this point so i can ask you to do your do you affirm the testimony youre about to give before the committee will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you god . They all affirm mr. Hickey would you start out and well go to mr. Priestap and then to mr. Horowitz and then well have fiveminute rounds for questioning. Questioning. Good morning chairman grassley. Ranking member feinstein and distinguished members of the committee. Thank you for providing me the opportunity to testify on behalf of the department of justice concerning the Foreign Agents registration act. The department appreciates the committees interest in fara. I know the committee already has my written testimony so i wont repeat it here. Ill cover a few key points about the law and its background how we enforce and administer it and how theyve responded to last years report by the Justice Departments Inspector General. Fara is a disclosure statute that requires persons in the United States who engage in specified activities as agents of foreign principals to register with the department. The acts purpose is to ensure the American Public and our lawmakers know the source of information that is provided at the behest of a foreign principal where that information may be intended to influence u. S. Public opinion, policy or laws. The statute finds you must register with a Foreign Agent. It exempts certain types of Foreign Agents from the Registration Requirements and among other things it requires agents to preserve their books and records and make them available for inspection. Because fara is designed to encourage transparency in public speech and political activities, not to discourage that speech and activities, it differs somewhat from other provisions of the criminal code such as those that punish espionage and other clandestine conduct. Instead of prosecution, the primary means of achieving that transparency is by encouraging voluntary disclosure in compliance with the act. The department will, of course, approve criminal prosecutions under farrah if theres sufficient admissible evidence of a willful violation of the statute. If theres sufficient admissible evidence of a willful violation of the statute. But the high burden in proving willfulness and exemptions available under the statute make criminal violations for fara difficult. Its handled by dojs National Security divisions fara unit. A regular part of the fara units work is attempts to identify people who may be subject to fara but not registered. If credible information suggests that the individual should register under, the fara unit will send an individual of the letter advising them of the registration. If the individual does not respond or the response seems incomplete, we will follow up. In some cases we may decide a criminal investigation is appropriate and involve the fbi. Often the recipients of those letters of inquiry will register. Fara unit staff carefully review registration filings for deficiencies, seek amendments and conduct inspections to ensure continued compliance. Fara unit staff also provided a visesory opinions regarding the application and requirements of the act and other tasks that ive describe misdemeanord in more detail. I will now respond to the 2016 report of the Inspector General. The report made 14 recommendations, nsd agreed with all of them, has implemented most of them and is working to implement the few that remain. As a result, in february, 2017, the oig informed nsd that six of the recommendations were closed. Nsd plans to file its next Progress Report in august at which time we anticipate the oig will be in a position to close nearly all of their remaining recommendations. I want to thank the committee for giving me the opportunity to discuss these issues and im happy to answer any questions you may have. Mr. Priestap . Chairman grassley, Ranking Member feinstein and members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to appear before you. My statement for the record has been submitted so rather than restating it, id like to explain why the issue before us is so important. The Foreign Agents registration act, or fara, is critical because we need all available tools to combat todays counterintelligence threat. Unbeknownst to many americans, the threat posed by our foreign adversaries is growing, both in volume and complexity our country is under Relentless Assault by hostile state actors and their proxies and add adversarial nations arent just using their Intelligence Services to conduct these assaults, they are using a wholeofgovernment approach, pursuing their goals on economic, technological, military, diplomatic and intelligence fronts. They use people from across their governments and from all walks of life in pursuit of their desire to gain strategic advantage over the United States in whatever ways they can. The lack of understanding of the scope and scale of the counterintelligence threat combined with the fact the threat is the a gradual one leads tom people to underestimate it but make no mistake. Our economy, our National Security and our way of life are being actively threatened by state actors and their proxies today and everyday. Its just one example of this, a number of our adversaries engage in activities designed to influence u. S. Public opinion, policy, and laws by requiring these activities to be conducting in an overt manner, by requiring Foreign Agents to disclose their relationship with foreign principals the American Public in the u. S. Government can better evaluate the information these agents provide, however when Foreign Agents dont disclose their relationship with their foreign principals, we are more susceptible to being unduly influenced influenced. This is why Foreign Agents who willfully fail to disclose their relationship with foreigners may be pursuant to criminal charge. We live in an age in which we are bombarded with information so its more important than ever that we understand its source, otherwise we cant fully understand and evaluate it. Fara matters because it requires Foreign Agents to publicly disclose for whom they speak. Fara also matters because in the counterintelligence realm the United States needs every weapon in its arsenal. While the fbi is the ledo midwest i can counterintelligence agency, the only way to effectively combat wholeofgovernment threats is through wholeofgovernment responses. The fbi is committed to working with the department of justice to enforce farah and any other statute that could be used against our adversaries. The fbi is equally committed to working with other u. S. Government components, the private sector and foreign partners to do the same. In closing, thank you very much for holding this hearing. As doing so raises awareness of the counterintelligence threat and one of the tools that can be used to fight it. Thank you, now mr. Horowitz. Thank you mr. Chairman, Ranking Member feinstein, members of the committee. Thank you for inviting me to testify at todays hearing. The Foreign Agents registration act is an important statute that Congress Passed to ensure that the people of the United States are informed of attempts by foreign principals to influence u. S. Public opinion, policy, and laws. In september, 2016, my Office Issued an audit report on the departments efforts to enforcesce fara and its administration and monitoring of fara registrations. We found that the number of fara registrations has declined significantly over the last two decades and that criminal prosecutions and Civil Enforcement actions are rare. Additionally, we determined that over half of the initial fara registration wes reviewed were untimely and 50 of registrants filed at least one recurring sixmonth supplemental registration late. In light of the information we reviewed and evaluated, we identified four general areas of concern. First, the department lacked a comprehensive enforcement strategy for fara and we heard about significant disagreements between the National Security division, the fbi about how such investigations were being handled and reviewed. Second, the National Security division was having difficulty gathering the necessary information so that it could identify when Foreign Agents failed to register as required under fara. Third. The National Security division needed to improve its monitoring and oversight of registrants, including ensuring registrants were complying with applicable Filing Requirements and doing so in a timely manner. And fourth the department had not made an assessment of the reason for the sharp decline in fara registrations over the past two decades, including the impact of the lobbying disclosure act exemption and whether any legislative changes should be sought. As a result of our findings, we made 14 recommendations to the department and they agreed with all of them. Five of our recommendations related to enforcement efforts. Since our report was released, nsd has taken significant actions for the oig to close, the three regulations related to updating training for investigators and prosecutors, providing more timely communication with fbi agents and federal prosecutors on the nsd decisionmaking process and working with the fbi regarding classification codes for fara and section 951 cases. Our recommendations that the nsd develop a comprehensive enforcement strategy and better track fara cases remain open, although were told by nsd it is working to address those two recommendations. Seven of our 14 recommendations related to improving nsds oversight of its Foreign Agent registrations. Two recommendations have since been closed because the nsd has begun posting anonymized advisory opinions on its fara web site and because its expanded its sources of information that it collects so that it can better gather information on possible foreign registrants. The other five recommendations remain open with notices to registrants that have not filed documents, the tracking of file closures, resolution of inspection reports, filing fees and the use of its email system, efile system to address timeliness. Weve been told by necessary deesd it is working on that as well. Finally, we made two recommendations to possible legislative changes we heard about, the first, which is now closed, related to the statutory 48 hour time limit for filing materials with the department which our report found was not being met, to address this recommendation, nsd told us that it is seeking to amend the statute to lengthen the time period for agents to file information with the department. Our other recommendation that remains open was for the department to conduct a formal assessment of the impact of the foreign disclosure lobbying act on fara enforcement and whether changes should be sought legislatively. Weve been told by nsd that it is continuing its assessment of that issue. As to each of these eight remaining open recommendations, my office will continue to monitor the departments progress to ensure that they are fully implemented because we believe they will further one of the primary goals congress had in passing fara, namely, Greater Transparency for the public about efforts by foreign principles to influence Public Opinion and public policy. This concludes my prepared statement. I would be happy to answer any questions the committee may have. I think all the members know that the twohour rule has been imposed so that mean weve got to get through this panel and the next panel in an hour and a half so anything that anybody can do to shorten their questioning period would be helpful because one of our witnesses came from out of the country to testify. Mr. Chairman, may i ask, do we know whos invoked the twohour rule . I find it hard to believe any United States senator would block our ability to inquire into this important subject. Do we happen to know . I do not know. I hope some members of the press find out and ask why they would want to block this important hearing. Im well have fiveminute rounds. Ill try to cut mine short if i can to get the question in. According to the Inspector General, im going to mr. Hickey, main justice and the fbi are not adequately communicating with each other and have struggled to figure out what qualifies as a proper fara charge. Since 1966, the Justice Department has only brought seven criminal fara cases in which only one resulted in conviction and two pled guilty. So why would doj expect people to register and be transparent when they arent really punished for failing to register . Thank you, mr. Chairman. Let me begin by saying how appreciative i am both of this hearing and the members for holding it and also to the Inspector General for his report. I took my current position about a year ago and that is the first time i became responsible for the fara unit and its very helpful when you take on a new position to have a road map of someone that someone has put together that issues spots where you need to focus, problems that need to be addressed and so let me express my gratitude publicly for the Inspector General for that report. As the igs report lays out, there may be an element of terminology misunderstanding in some parts of the bureau in the Justice Department which we are trying to rectify which is i think many agents and prosecutors refer to a different provision of the criminal code, namely section 951 of title 18 which also has the words agent and Foreign Government in its title, as fara instead of referring to the act were discussing today. I dont think at least sitting here today based on the work we have done over the last year there is a misunderstanding. Weve worked hard to train prosecutors and agents in the field what fara looks like, what a fara violation looks like and to bring cases to us and in recent memory im aware of only a single case in which a u. S. Attorneys office haas proposed a criminal charge that nsd has not approved by that case was prosecuted around different statute and a conviction obtained. So i think we have made great progress towards educating our field on the importance of these cases and the need to bring them. Thank you. Now to mr. Horowitz. Have the Justice Department and the fbi adequately addressed how fara fits into the departments overall National Security efforts . If so, explain and if not, please explain what else must be done. Well, we have not closed our recommendation regarding the need for comprehensive strategy. Were looking forward to the august update that we are due from nsd about that and it our review highlighted this disconnect and the lack of a comprehensive strategy, both based on our discussions with assistant u. S. Attorneys, fbi agents handling these cases as well as the National Security division folks because not only were there disagreements about the number of cases and what classification they fell in and what which were fara cases and which were not but the absence of prosecutions and the absence of records to see what had happened with reviews that we heard complaints about. Mr. Hickey, leading into your next two questions im going to ask you, the department recently required the Podesta Group and mercury llc to register for engaging in Public Relations campaigns to the benefit of Foreign Governments. Public reports show a foreigncontrolled company hired fusion gps and glen simpson to do propaganda work in an effort to reveal the magnitsky act. They prort they reportedly dug up dirt about mr. Browder and his company. This covert negative Publicity Campaign would principally benefit the russian government. So without reference to that particular case, if a Company Engages in a Publicity Campaign on behalf of a Foreign Government to influence u. S. Law, does that generally create an obligation to register under fara . Ill get the hang of it. Thank you, senator, for the question and thank you for acknowledging my inability to comment on particular investigations or potential investigations today. Let me describe our practice. Where we see credible investigation to believe someone is acting as an agent of a foreign principal, we face a choice at that moment. In most cases we dont have indications of willfulness, meaning we dont have indications that the individual is deliberately choosing not to register but aware of their on ligation and in that case we would send a letter of inquiry and solicit more information, however if we had indications that the agent was acting willfully it may be more appropriate to go directly to a criminal investigation. I think in your question, sir, you used the terms on behalf of. I want to be precise, the statute applies to agents, so those working at the direction or control of a foreign principal. One of the challenges we sometimes face is that independent groups may have interests that overlap with or coincide with Foreign Governments and that can be a challenge to other determination that theyre acting at the direction or control of the foreign principal. Senator feinstein . Thanks very much, mr. Chairman. Mr. Horowitz, youve always been a straight shooter and thats very much appreciated. Ive been reading your remarks bottom of page three and top of page four where you have a number of recommendations. Yes. And you begin by saying nsd officials have difficulty procureing information from people that may be agents and therefore theyre but suing Civil Authority from congress to help enhance the nsds ability to assess the need for potential agents to register and you go on and talk about including controls and oversight and you also speak about ensuring the statutory 48hour time limit for agent filing of informational materials. I think its pretty clear that we need some legislation in this area. Would you be prepared to work with us on a bapt basis to strengthen this . Absolutely and i think my folks who did the audit have a fair amount of understanding about where some of the fault lines are here. Could you just sort of prioritize if you were us where you would go first, second and third . I think first and foremost is what you and the chairman have identified which is putting teeth into the statute and making sure that the fbi, the National Security divisions believe they have the tools to ensure that people voluntarily comply. It shouldnt be the case that youre found out through google searches or otherwise, told to register and then you register. There are no consequences to registering, why not wait for the knock on the door rather than come up voluntarily and do it . So i think thats first and foremost. Second, obviously, to do that prosecutors and agents need to get the information to see who isnt voluntarily complying and thats where the civil investigative demand comes in and third its the question that has been raised and we talk about in our audit about the impact of the lobbying disclosure act. What we heard over and over again was the exemption in fara for folks who are complying with the lobbying disclosure act has impacted and is a major reason why theres been is substantial drop over the last two decades in the number of filings. The problem we had when we went in to see if that was true is that the department wasnt tracking information and didnt know, in fact, if that was true, it was a supposition but there werent records to show it so i would suggest those are the three areas where we should first and foremost focus. Just to comment. Will i dont know a time when the United States feels more invaded and by this i mean 21 States Election systems were pierce in this last election we believe by russia and thats a a pretty sovereign interference and interference with our sovereignty. So there are two of us here that serve on the Intelligence Committee so we know some of these things and it seems to me that the time has really come to tighten this act up to know who is in the country, to see that they formally apply, to see if they violate its prosecuted and that it has become a priority for us. Would you agree with that . Absolutely. Gentlemen, do you have a comment to make on what i just said . Senator, thank you for ask what other tools we might require. Im aware of at least two proposals, one that may have been introduced for legislative changes and we are working hard to coordinate views across the administration on those proposals and i too in the Department Look forward to working with congress on this important question. Can you give us the name of the legislation so we can find it . I know senator shaheen has introduced one bill. There is another bill in the house, cob tan did im not sure if it has been introduced publicly so i dont want to exceed my writ and ive heard talk of other potential bills but i know of two were working on right now. Thank you. And well talk with mr. Horowitz and you. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Senator hatch . Welcome to the committee, were happy to have all of you here. I come with one simple message, lets be fair, lets judge both sides of the political divide, both parties by the same standards and there are few things i take more seriously than the allegations of foreign interference in the 2016 election. Actually, for foreign influence actually, foreign influence would be an i greejs you violation of our sovereignty, even the plausible allegation of it can, if left unaddressed, seriously undermine Public Confidence in our institutions. Weve heard pretty serious accusations of foreign influence over the Trump Campaign, whether here in the senate more to the media and, frankly many of these allegations have been truly outlandish. Most have been politically motivated and all have been taking their toll. Even the most outrageous accusation repeated often enough will slowly acquire a false ring of truth, especially in todays media environment so to the extent that there is anything to these allegations, republicans are stepping up. There are investigations under way by both the house and the senate Intelligence Committees before the appointment of special counsel by the department of justice, the House Oversight committee was investigating around now the Senate Judiciary committee is investigating. All are controlled by republicans so i dont want to hear anyone complain we arent standing up and doing what is necessary here to get to the bottom of these things. As to todays hearing, a critical part of the investigation in this committee will be the application of the Foreign Agents registration act. Its a critical part of the equation. I want to commend chairman grassley and the Ranking Member as well for holding this hearing and leading the way but i want everyone in the media, the democrats, our constituents and republicans to hear me and hear me clearly. While these allegations may be too serious to ignore, they are also too serious to be left incomplete and too serious to be used for partisan ends. If were going to get to the bottom of this, we need to investigate the whole story. That means looking at more than just foreign influence over the Trump Campaign. It includes looking at serious allegations of foreign influence over the Clinton Campaign and the Democratic National committee as well. After all, if this National Controversy is going to be brought to a legitimate conclusion we have to treat it as more than just fodder for partisan gamesmanship and more than a headlinegrabbing attack on the president. We need to explore both sides of the story. According to the Committee Staff report and as numerous reports in the media have revealed, there are serious questions about whether foreign actors wanted to hurt not help the Trump Campaign and there are serious questions about whether foreign actors wanted to help not hurt the Clinton Campaign. Many suspect that foreign actors wanted to help Neither Campaign but they wanted to hurt our electoral process as a whole by sowing chaos and confusion so there are question this is committee needs answered. Im pleased that the Trump Campaign individuals have agreed to be interviewed but it doesnt end with them. Fusion gps, for example, the Opposition Research firm, has a lot of questions to answer. The Democratic National committee has questions to answer and the Clinton Campaign has questions to answer so in conclusion we have heard democrats level grave often outlandish accusations at the Trump Administration and family. Weve seen the media pursue it relentlessly but weve heard far less about the rest of the story. Mr. Chairman i applaud you and the Ranking Member for scheduling this hearing and i implore my democratic colleagues in the media to join the Judiciary Committee to get to the bottom of this. We must ensure that these Investigations Center with an opportunity protect our institutions not merely as an excuse to attack our political opponents. Our constituents deserve better than theyve gotten and we can start by fixing this today and doing what ought to be done in this particular area so i want to thank you three gentlemen for appearing with us as well and just say i hope we can be fair in these matters a and treat the Trump Administration as fairly as we want our personal interests to be treated. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you, senator hatch, appreciate your remarks, Senate White House . Gentlemen, welcome, i will try to move through my material quickly to obey the chairmans injunction that we move along. First, do sflif any doubt whatsoever that russia interfered in our 2016 president ial election . None. Okay. Just to be clear, let me just i only know what ive read in the newspaper, we are not involved. Understand that because youre the ig. Yeah. So the Foreign Agent regulation sakt you will all agree, i hope, has as its purpose to identify Foreign Agents seeking to influence u. S. Government policies, correct . Correct, yes . Yeah. Is that an important purpose . How important a purpose and in very brief words. Very important, senator. Agreed. Agree. Can Foreign Agents seeking to influence u. S. Government policies use Shell Corporations to obscure their identities . Senator, i can certainly conceive of situation wheres agents acting here for foreign principals could use other firms or measures to hietd connection to the principal. And the use of nontransparent corporate prus forms, does that help or hinder your ability to investigate foreign influence in u. S. Government policies . It would be part of the challenge i referred to earlier, senator, of the difficulty in proving direction or control to the ultimate principal. So Greater Transparency as to who is behind a Shell Corporation would be an advantage to Law Enforcement . I think so, senator, yes. Similarly, can could Foreign Agents use anonymous political contributions, say, through 501 c 4 s or through identity laundering devices like donors trouft donors trust to obscure who was making the political contribution . Senator, im not so much an expert in Campaign Finance or contributions. What youve said sounds right to me, but i dont want to mislead you that i have any particular expertise in the matter. Lets put. This way. If your purpose is to identify foreign influence being brought to bear on our government and election money is pouring in and you dont know who is actually behind it, that creates an avenue for foreign influence to influence our government, correct . That sounds right to me, senator. Can business relationships be used and rb, indeed, is it not well send it that russia tries to use business relationships to facilitate or as cover for foreign influence operation . Ill defer to the fbi to speak to russia specifically. I know that one of the challenges, senator, that we face is that theres often an economic or commercial cast to the activity here. But, in fact, the Foreign Government may be the principal beneficiary or the activity may not be private or nonpolitical in nature and thus, i registration. And its established through both the kremlin handbook report by the sif and the Kremlin Trojan horses by Atlantic Council that russia actually uses business relationship to corrupt and to influence people in other tries where theyre seeking influence, correct . Mr. Predeveloper youre familiar with that . Im familiar with both reports and in my experience that is true. So in an investigation into a Foreign Agents effort to influence u. S. Policy, being able to understand business relationships could be vital to understanding the influence scheme, correct . Absolutely. And that effort, are an individuals tax returns potentially very significant, indeed often obvious investigative material . A variety of financial records pertaining to any of the individuals orient ent ties involves. Including tax returns. Including tax returns which widely pursued in drl investigation theres actually a whole section on the u. S. Attorneys manual devoted to the simple process for investigators getting access to tax returns, correct . Yes. Im not an expert on tax returns, but they can be of investigative value. Thank you very much. My time has expired. Senator cornyn. Thank you, mr. Chairman for holding this very important hearing and i hope some of our democratic colleagues have objected to the continuation of this hearing beyond two hours a will reconsider and withdraw that objection because what were doing here is simply too important to the security of our country. Mr. Prestep, thank you for making what i think say really important point. We tend to focus on the trees instead of the forest and here, of course, the immediate concern interrussian is about russian involvement in our elections. But they will use a range of activities both overt and covert to underminus in a variety of ways. And of course for now were just talking about the Foreign Agents registration act, which would be more of an overt means ever doing so. By fear that violations are happening around this time all the time, meaning Foreign Governments are attempting to expert power over u. S. Policy and we simply dont know about it. I experienced this recently many my work on the justice against sponsors of terrorism act which say law that gave americans tools to fight terrorism and bring justice to victims that had the overwhelming support of congress notwithstanding the veto of president obama. Opponents of the bill warned that any number of consequences would occur with our relationship to saudi arabia which was not named in the bill but none of those have resulted, but of course but even though , they were wrong, the debate was a real one and the kind that ought to accompany any bill. But along with healthy debate, the kingdom of saudi arabia reportedly undertook a cloaked campaign to gut the legislation and involve ghost written letters and ghost written legislation, involved threats to american companies. It involved, as of october 2016, saudi arabia paying american lobbyists and Public Relation firms to undermine or overturn the legislation. They paid them 1. 3 million each month to fight against the right of american victims of terrorism to sue Terror Financing nations. But the worst part of this campaign was the use of veterans to persuade members of congress. According to press reports, agents of the saudi government recruited American Veterans, flew them to washington, wined them and dined them and then put them up in fancy hotels and provided them with false information to provide to members of congress. They didnt tell these american heroes that who was sponsoring them, in who they were serving, not only did these agents apparently violate fara, they put our American Veterans at legal risk. Veterans waited the organizers concealed the sponsorship of their trip, and a number of firms do not file under fara until outraged veterans and press reports revealed their activities. This kind of conduct should gall every member of the senate and it proves that other countries will go to great length to undermine the United States government. Unfortunately, they can do so unchecked, and with little threat of punishment, and that must change. Gentlemen, i would like to ask you when the lobbying disclosure enacted, there was a corresponding drop in Foreign Agents registration act. Current law allows an individual who represents a foreign individual or commercial entity, but not a Foreign Government or Political Party to register under this lobbying disclosure act instead of the Foreign Agent registration act. And of course, there are instances where companies are either or informally controlled by Foreign Governments. We can think of a number of them. And theres an open question of the level of government control of any company in china, for example, which is all subservient insubordinate to the subservient and subordinate to the communist party and the government of china. I would ask each of to you comment, should the lobbying disclosure act be amended so that all foreign commercial entities would likewise file under the agent registration act. And how do we consider the fact that many Foreign Agents use state owned or stateaffiliated enterprises to conduct their for policy . Should we think about fara in that light as well . How long is the company or enablers search willing to find climate interested in avoiding fara . I know there are a number of questions, but i would be interested in your brief comments given the considerations of time . Senator, ill be a succinct as possible. Reporting repealing the have correlated , demonstrator views on that question later. I know two things from managing the fara. The number of administrations dropped precipitously after the lda was passed. At the time, the department expressed the view that that might happen, that the exemption should work a different way, maybe be exempt from lda but not fara. One of the challenges we faced one of the challenges we face is that the Companies May not be controlled, or at least not on paper, but a government. They may in fact be a wellconnected corporate enterprise not under the direction or control of Foreign Government, but whose interests overlap, and who under our regs are doing work, a principal beneficiary for whom is the Foreign Government. Those folks are still supposed to register so we searched the database and find those registrants and find out if it is really the government or Political Party, but its a challenge for us. Thank you. Thank you very much, mr. Chairman. Thank you to you and senator feinstein for this hearing and while its disappointing that some of our witnesses are not here today, its important to move forward in a bipartisan way , and im going to focus on the issues at hand here. Cosponsor mr. Hickey, i am cosponsor of Bipartisan Legislation of Foreign Agents registration modernization and enforce meant act to give federal prosecutors a civil and investigative demand authority they need to investigate foreign entities in helping sure they follow the law. They could make them turn over relevant documents before initiating a civil or criminal proceeding, and i understand that obtaining this authority has been a priority for the Justice Departments National Security division. Can you explain my this type of authority would be so helpful to prosecutors . Thank you, senator. As i mentioned earlier, im not in a position to call for any particular legislative change today. I simply dont have authorization do that. But as i think youve noted, twice in the past i think, waund in the past the federal , government has proposed civ thwart for nsd for exactly that purpose. And so while i wont advocate one way or the other today, ill simply point out that that authority would create a middle ground between resorting to a criminal subpoena, which you would not necessarily have the bases to do a be in the right position to do, and the voluntary letter of inquiry that we rely heavily on now. Ok. Thank you. And then a more detailed question on russian tv. We know our intelligence agencies have found that russia tried to interfere in our election. Releasedl, the office a report documenting some of the ways they tried to do this, including through news outlets russia, rty that america was explicitly set up to , avoid the Foreign Agents registration act because its registered as a nonprofit instead of a government affiliate. Can one of you mr. Hickey, mr. , prestep, can you elaborate on why rt is not currently registered under fara . [inaudible] i probably shouldnt comment on any particular individuals or entities, but it strikes me that when Congress Passed fara or amended it recently, maybe in the s this amended it recently, he carved out media organizations. What that tells me as a prosecutor is that it intended to capture potentially, others or not u. S. Owned. Reporting youve referred to, im familiar with the reporting youve referred to, and im familiar with that provision of the statute. Very good. Well, it would be good if we could pursue that line, if, in fact, the statute says that, that they carved out a u. S. Owned from foreign own and it might not just be russia it could be another government as well. Do you think this is just to the panel whoever wants to take this one. Do you think that the fara requirements in current law adequately reflect recent technological advances, would technologicals advanceors would other standards up dating the hour rule for facebook and updating the 48 hour rule for facebook and twitter help the fara do its work for effectively . I know you cant comment on exact legislation, but are there tools out there that could be helpful to you . Thank you, senator. I think the internet does present a challenge for us because the statute is limited to individuals acting within the United States. 1940, theearly as attorney general, the thenattorney general, issued an opinion if you mail materials into the United States even if youre not here youre acting within the United States. So, i see the challenge with the internet is both a technical one, but also a question of jurisdiction. Even if you are quoteunquote subject to fara because youre acting here, how will we reach the agent who is physically located in another country . I see that as a significant challenge. Ok. Do you want to add anything, mr. Prestep to any of my questions . No. I just think mr. Hickeys exactly right and thats the true challenge. And im not certain how you legislate that. Ok. Anything . No, i think the internet presents some new challenges and thinking that has to occur in the 48 hour rule in the requirements. It just seems like we may need to update this law in lieft everything that weve seen given another election is around the corner. And everyone in america wants to have their vote count, and that means not having influence from other entities. So, i want to thank you very much. Thank you, senator klobuchar. Now senator lindsey graham. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I would like to add my comments to you and the Ranking Member for conducting the reorganized way forward in terms of dealing with the threats we face as a nation, and changing our laws consistent with those threats. I am too disappointed that we a twohour rule, something thats important, two hearings i know have been canceled. We cant agree on healthcare but we should be able to agree that this is important. So heres the deal. Aipac, are you familiar with aipac . American Israel Political Action Committee . Ive heard of it, sir yes. Ok. They come up here in droves , lobbying congress to do things in their view, good for the u. S. israel relationship. I know they have a lot of contacts in israel. Should somebody like that be a Foreign Agent . Sir, its probably not appropriate for me to comment on a particular entity, but i think you have hit on something very important to us, which is right now, we rely principally on public reports for the bases to send voluntary letters of inquiry. I would love to receive for information in whatever form anyone can give it to me about whats occurring behind closed doors. So, we are able to take steps to investigate it appropriate to investigate it, if appropriate. I am not suggesting aipac is doing anything wrong, quite the contrary. Theyre a group of americans who banded together to maximize their influence to speak about something important to them that involves a foreign ally. So, i think the aipac model is a good thing, and that is not my concern because they are vary transparent. They have conventions, and we all know how the game is played there. So i want to make sure that lobbying on behalf of a foreign u. S. Relationship with a Foreign Government is not a bad thing as long as you do it right. And i have some friends of mine who represent Foreign Countries that come into my office all the time, talking about the countrys below whatever we are doing. Nothing wrong with that as long as you are up front. An example of what would bother me, general flynn who i admire his service to our country but he wrote a piece saying we alant, ixtradite mr. Gsl guy that erdogan hates so much. I didnt know at the time he was receiving hundreds of thousands of dollars from a group that was representing turkey. Thats the kind of thing we want to get a hold of, is that correct . We did advise general flynn that we believed he had a registration obligation, sir. Ok. But that kind of conduct is what were all worried about. Or may have. May have. So lets get back to what , senator klobuchar was talking about. Youve got russian bots that are actively pushing fake news and news helpful to one candidate, harmful to the others come into our political system. So, you got all these russians making up crap, and sending bad articles to key districts to influence outcomes of an election. This time it may be against the democratic party. It may be against the republican party. Next week it could be iran or , north korea, it goes on and on and on. What happens or what power do we have if somebody in the United States coordinates with them, some platform or website begins to coordinate with content that originates outside the country , being disseminated in a political fashion within the country . If somebody coordinates with them, or becomes an ally, what status with they have . Senator, i would have to look at all of the facts and circumstances of a particular case. Fara reaches conduct when the person acting within the United States is doing so under the direction or control, or as the agent of the principal. In this circumstance, the generated content is coming outside the country. Its being delivered in the country for a political purpose, and any American Organization within the country that alludes es withem, that collud them, for a lack of a better word, should we have laws that deal with that . Under fara i think one question youd have to ask is whether that person here is acting as the agent or under the direction or control of those foreign individuals. If they are, should they register . Thats one of the principal fillers that youre an agent acting under the direction or control. Our laws give good enough answer to my question or should we change our laws to deal with whats the reality of the future . Senator, i dont feel prepared to answer that question today, im sorry. Thank you. Senator franken and then senator kennedy. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you, gentlemen for testifying. In the director of national january, intelligence released a classified report, detailing interference in last years election. The report states unequivocally, quote russian president Vladimir Putin ordered and influenced campaign in aimed at the u. S. President ial election. Mr. Hickey and mr. Prestep, youre here today representing the Justice Departments National Security division and the fbis Counterintelligence Division. Have you read the declassified intelligence assessment of the russian operation . I have, senator. Thank you. I have as well. Good. Have either of you read the classified version of the report . I have. Ok. Thank you. Im not sure, sir. Ok. Do you have any reason to doubt the intelligence communitys assessment that the russians interfered in last years president ial election . No, sir. No, sir. Well, for some reason President Trump remains unwilling to accept the fact that russia interfered in our election. We saw this during the campaign when he dismissed reports of russian meddling by suggesting that the hacking could have been carried out by, quote somebody sitting on their bed that weighs 400 pounds. But now, six months into his presidency we continue to see , that reluctance to acknowledge the truth. Mintedst week, the newly White House Communications director Anthony Scaramucci appeared on cnn and he said you knowe somebody said to me yesterday, i , wont tell you who, that if the russians actually hacked this situation and spilled out those emails, and you would never have seen it. You would never have had any evidence of them, meaning, that theyre super confident in their deception skills and hacking. The host of the show asked just who that somebody was . Admitted aramucci and mr. Scaramucci admitted that it was President Trump who explained that if the russians had, quote hacked the situation that the United States would not have evidence of that hacking because of the russians superior intelligence capabilities. Do either of you know where President Trump that that idea . No, sir. No, sir. Well, ill tell you. President trump believes that to be true because Vladimir Putin told him so. The New York Times later confirmed that putin was the source of that information. The times reported that President Trump emerged from his meeting with putin to quote tell his aides that the russian president had offered that moscows cyber operators are so good at covert Computer Network operations that if they had dipped into the dncs system they would not have been caught. Now, let that taken for a moment. The president of the United States is taking the word of Vladimir Putin over that of our nations intelligence agencies, which demonstrates a stunning lack of confidence in the men and women who put their lives on the line to keep us safe. And the president of the United States then goes on to repeat that russian lie to the American Press and to mr. Scaramucci , effectively spreading russias misinformation for them. Have experience in counterintelligence. When thenfbi director comey appeared before the house Intelligence Committee in march, he described the russian operation as, quote unusually loud. He said, quote. He said he said, quote its almost as if they did not care that we knew. Their loudness in a way would be counting on us to amplify it by telling the American People what we saw and freaking people out about how the russians might be undermining our elections successfully. Do you agree with former director comeys assessment was the russian operation unusually loud . Yes. Mr. Hickey, youve managed the National Security divisions efforts to fight cyber attacks. Do you agree with director comeys assessment, former director comeys assessment . In my position as a lawyer, sir, i would defer to director comey on that question. Let me just i can have a few seconds . So, it seems fair to say that not only did russia interfere and last years election, but that russia likely was trying to fly under the radar, contrary to what putin may have told President Trump. It would seem that russia actually wanted americans to find out about its efforts, that our knowledge of their operation and the unease it continues to cause to cause us was, in fact, central to undermining americans faith in democracy. Thank you for your indulgence. Senator kennedy. Chairman, are we going to get bouder today . We will stop here at as the 11 30, rules require and then mr. Brouder will be here tomorrow at 9 00. Ok. Well recess the hearing until tomorrow. And thats because of the twohour rule . Yes. Id like to join senator graham and senator cornyn. Id like to know who invoked the 48 hour rule. Its essential their right but i think they owe it to this committee and to these witness, some of whom traveled a Long Distance to explain their reasoning. And he came from overseas to be here. And has to stay now an extra day. He is willing to stake him and i dont know why the two hour rule was invoked, but if it was invoked so we could not talk to him, it can happen tomorrow and nine at. So, because overcome, if that is the rationale. If mr. Brouders here id like to apologize. I think he will be in the anteroom if you want to apologize. I will do that. Mr. Hickey, according to media reports, mr. Sidney blumenthal lobby, former secretary clinton to show support. He was asking secretary clinton to show support for a Prime Minister candidate in the country of georgia, according to media reports, mr. Blumenthal allegedly passed along personal letters to secretary clinton from the leader of Opposition Party and transmitted a memo from any to her acquaintance by the name of mr. John kornblum. The letter urged secretary clinton to support the same Opposition Party in the georgia election. According to media reports, and i guess could you check as a matter of fact, either mr. Blumenthal nor mr. Kornblum have registered under fara and id like to know why doj has not required them to register . Thank you, senator. Unfortunately, consistent with Longstanding Department of justice policy, i cannot confirm or deny, or comment on particular individuals or entities or investigations or potential investigations. Ok. You ever heard of a group called fusion gps . I have, sir. I think its cofounder is mr. Glen simpson. I have seen that in media reports, sir. Has he registered under the statute fara . I have not searched for his name, sir, so sitting here today i dont know for sure. I think the answer is no, but again im not sure. , was anybody at the department of justice searched for his name . I dont know that, sir. Is somebody looking into that . I cant comment on that, sir. General horowitz, why i think you testified that two faraes ago, enforcement of became less of a priority. Why was that . Well, what we saw was about two decades ago, a significant dropoff in the number of filings. One event was the lobbying disclosure act. But actually preceding that by two years was the imposition of fees for filing. But if you look at our report and the chart that weve done and the graphic that weve included in the report, it shows the cliff actually starts occurring in 1993 after fees were imposed. And one of the challenges we had when we went in and did our audit was trying to determine what was the impact of lock in the disclosure act . And the problem we had was there really had never been an assessment done by the department and the folks administering the program to determine if that was, in fact, the cause as opposed to what do you think . You have studied this issue, general. What do you think the cause of was . It looks tok a combination both, potentially, as well as we talked about earlier, the need to have a strong enforcement policy, and a mechanism to ensure that folks understand that are real consequences to failing to register. And i think one of the concerns our team had, and i had into looking at this, is in 50 years in 50 years of doing seven criminal cases, five of which resulted in convictions and three of which involve fara charges over 50 year period, doesnt necessarily send a message out there that theres real keep on this legislation. Id like to you think on this too to let it sink in all three of you what you allow is whats going to continue. Now, i understand that the Justice Department cant talk about investigations and i respect that. And i think its a good rule. But im general, i hope that you will continue to monitor this, because its clear that failing, and ia dont know what metric we have to understand whether it has been fixed. We will do that. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Senator, if you use your five minutes then ive got to inform senator cruz you might only have two or three minutes for you. And then with the twohour roll, we will have to adjourn. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Despite conducting significant lobbying on behalf of foreign interests, Donald Trumps former National Security adviser Michael Flynn and former Campaign Manager Paul Manafort , only filed with fara after their activities were publicly disclosed. Doesnt that undermine the purpose of fara . Good morning, senator. Unfortunately, i cannot comment on particular cases. What i will say is we do our level best to identify conduct through every source we can and act on it by sending either a voluntary letter of inquiry or opening a case. So, regardless of whether you can comment on particulars, im getting to the delay in registering under fara, and i am delay in whether a registering, at some can amount point, to a willful violation of fara . I think thats a good question, senator. The statute makes clear that if you register late, that does not preclude a prosecution, and there may be a number of facts and raise an inference of will for nass an inference of willfulness. Certainly the goal of the statute is to ensure that agents register immediately, essentially, upon becoming agents or principals or i think its within ten days. That is what the statute defense. , so perhaps we need to strengthen that part of the law because i think, at some you point, mentioned there needs to be a showing of willfulness and to show a violation of fara and i would say that substantively at some point i delay in registration amounts to a willful violation. Another question during the republican convention, the Trump Campaign insisted on a change to the National Republican platform making u. S. Policy on ukraine , much more favorable to the russian government. At that time, Paul Manafort was the Trump Campaign chair and at that time he had been paid 17. 1 million in unreported payments from the party of regions, the prorussia party, and ukraine. He had also had extensive business dealings. The ukraine and with well paid russian ala guard yet he did not register until later this year , and never disclosed this work. Wasnt this the activity on behalf of a Foreign Government that fara registration is meant to disclose . Im sorry, senator, i dont think i can answer that question. We have advised, we previously advised as demand for it. We believe had he an abgation to register and is he registered. I think that answers my question. Would this raise any red flags for you or your investigators, mr. Prestep . Im sorry, i cant comment on that. You cant even comment on whether or not an action lets just take out names. It somebody does this, wouldnt this raise red flags for you . Im sorry, i just dont want to comment on any individuals or entities or fact patterns associated in any way with potential or current investigations. Would it be fair to say that this kind of fact pattern wheres theres nondisclosure, nonregistration, this is not necessarily unusual and so this happens. We have a concern in this committee that there be the enforcement of fara and whatever may arise out of a violation of fara. So, regardless of whether you can, and are not, i would hope that the fbi and this kind of factual circumstance would look into what is going on. There has been some discussion about the what happens with the lda, and the fact that there has been such a decrease in registrations under fara after lda. Im wondering whether mr. Hickey, you said that the doj searches the lda databases for people who may not have appropriately registered, so my question for mr. Prestep is does the fbi search the fara databases for potential violations of law . Not that i know of, maam. Why wouldnt you . We depend on the department of justice to, in effect oversee , this area. As mr. Hickey i believe mentioned previously, this is a regulatory or disclosure statute. It is not a criminal statute and department of justice is mainly responsible for the administration of it. Well, its just we understand that fara is merely a disclosure law and its the fbi that gets into any criminal activity. And since fara requires a lot more disclosure than the lda, one would think and hope that the fbi would pursue looking at the fara databases. So, its an editorial comment. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Let me echo the concerns a number of folks have raised that i think its unfortunate that the democratic, angry resistance has extended to the level of obstructing nominees across the board, and now, shutting down committee hearings, as this one will be shut down into minutes. I think that is unfortunate. You have senators not willing to do the jobs they were elected to do. In the minute and a half we have, mr. Horowitz, your Office Conducted an extensive review of the National Security division. This included a review of the enforcement of fara or perhaps as more accurately described the nonenforcement of it. In your opinion, is nonenforcement a result of a conscious decision, or merely a lack of coordination within the department of justice . What what we saw as a lack of coordination and that concerned us and the fact that there were a handful of cases over a 50 year period, raised concerns for us about what message that was sending to the community out there that should be registering voluntarily. Now, if its a lack of coordination, where is the process breaking down . Well, we saw very different opinions among ausas and agents and the nsd over what it meant to handle these cases. And i think as was just mentioned, the National Security division, as the attorneys responsible for the regulatory scheme, really have to take the lead on coming up with an enforcement strategy, coordinating with the fbi to move forward to make sure that folks are registering voluntarily, and if not registering voluntarily, that there are cases and investigations that result from that. Now that far off fara registration unit focuses on voluntary compliance and yet there are u. S. Attorney offices bringing criminal cases whats the differential . Theyre seeing the failures to file are looking at these cases, and believe there are willful failure to file, and that again was a point of dispute with the oversight that. Was going on with the division of those cases they need to at the nsd approve those cases in order for them to be brought. We heard from and we heard from and we heard from ausas concerns about that. How that was going on reviews of evidence, concerns about jury appeal that prosecutors thought they were in the best position to determine based on their districts, and what they knew about their districts, and that was an area of concern for us as it would be that kind of dispute between prosecutors in the field and folks at main justice. Thank you. And i think the committees time has now expired. The twohour rule goes into effect right now. I thank all of you for participating, and the hearing will be recessed tomorrow, and be able start out with mr. Brouder. It will be 9 00 tomorrow if i did make it clear. Yeah. It will be 9 00 tomorrow if i did not make it clear. [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2017] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] [cheers and applause] the light we will hear from a psychologist and scientists who talks about the method he for analyzing an individuals personality traits based on the social media activities, and how those profile seven used in business and politics. The event was hosted by the Computer Science museum in mt. View, california, and you can see it tonight at 8 00 eastern on cspan. Naacp willhat, the hold discussion on the u. S. Criminal Justice System. We will hear about the state of the Justice System for people of color, the disparities and judicial outcomes based by black citizens compared to their white counterparts, and what changes need to be made to close such gaps. That event starts at 9 00 eastern, also on cspan. Q a, he talks about his book. One of the longest and bloodiest battles of the vietnam war. That battle shocked me because the saigon military withnd was so out of touch the reality of what was happening in the streets. They got a lot of Young Americans killed because what the general denied is that the city had been taken. It was affected he continued to deny it for the whole time the battle was fought. As a consequence, would never concede the sheer number of enemy forces that were in the city. So, small units of marines and troopers were being ordered to attack positions that were held by overwhelmingly superior enemy forces in entrenched positions could sunday night at 8 00 eastern on cspans q a. Sunday and at afterwards, connecticut democratic congresswoman rosa delauro talks about her efforts to cut social programs in her book the least among us. WhenSocial Security Social Security reaches lowest point, we had Ronald Reagan and tip oneill who came together, enacted, and congress acted to make Social Security solvent. Ringing of hands about Social Security and being insolvent can be solved immediately by lifting the gap. Much afterward sunday night watch afterward sunday night