Toannouncement to def con make it sound professional. I was rewriting our announcements to make them sound corporate. One of my friends said you know what, throw a real conference. Charge real money. Make it professional. I thought it was brilliant. I was too young. I save my money for a year. Then i started black cat a year later. Every year it has grown for 20 years. Host what is the difference between black hat and devcon . Def con. Sec job. Happen info you are working for General Electric or microsoft. You need to learn something you can apply hands on right away. Im going to go home and defend my company against it. Its very practical but focused on enterprise. On, it is the sense of discovery, learning something new, picking locks. Your corporate job is going to teach you how to pick locks. Hardware hacking, car hacking. Conspiracy theories. You learn that helps how to learn. We ared brought up that teaching the next generation of hackers a way to think. There is the mentality of how to. Ack, which is a skill set then there is a professional hackers. I liken this to an artist. You create when you want to. Or a professional artist, working for a company. You have to be creative day after day. Devcon is all about the people who want to be creative when they want to be creative. Black hat is the transition to a day job. I have to keep up and know the skills i need for my job but i am going to go to def con because that is where my Creative Energy comes from. They have existed well together. They are different. But the people generally started in one and migrated to the other. Host is there a subversive this . Jeff there has to be. That is part of the antiauthoritarian. Even to this day a lot of what hackers are told is you cant do that. That is not possible. We dont believe you. The Voting Machines are secure. It takes rebellious nature to say i think i can break into the Voting Machines. No me your cell phone does have some problems. People who areut good at streak speaking truth to power tend to be a little bit rebellious. The other thing is companies are telling you what the problems are. The governments are telling you what the problems are. The criminals are telling you how they are breaking in. It comes down to hackers and academics to tell you what is possible. When a hacker started messing ,emotely with a medical devise the manufacturer said that is not possible. Only when the hacker it district distributed it did the manufacturer say ok, we will listen to you. Was that subversive or is that a public good . Consumers now know, dont buy that bottle and put the fda on notice, they should be testing. There is a generation of medical devices that are not safe. Maybe the fda doesnt like it. But maybe they are not doing their job as well as they could. You never make anybody happy. A lot of times, they are doing this creatively. They dont care. They are doing it because it is there. Host where did the names come from . Jeff people get black hat confused. It is black hat briefings. The idea was, we are letting you know what the bad guys are doing and how to prepare. It got shortened down. It turns out that all these hackers and academics are a crystal ball. You would talk to your friends and say what are you working on . I found this little edge case with routing. Them, itinteresting to is a problem in the future for everybody else. They are the canary in the coal mine. Years ago, saying the internet of things was going to be a problem. Now it is a problem. Companies who want to get a head start, way maybe there is a problem, then go build a product and sell it. People come for different reasons. Now we are seeing more government appearances. Regulators, Law Enforcement. They are trying to figure what is coming next. Def con was originally a party. Everything was online. There was no internet. It was meant to put a face to a name. There was so much misinformation aat it was no sense of factual well when you could learn the truth. Everything was wordofmouth. There was so much misinformation. If i put a disclaimer on my Bulletin Board that said no Undercover Police officers allowed it is entrapment if they sign then. That doesnt make sense. That doesnt sound right. The first def con we had a prosecutor speed. And a lawyer talk about the liabilities if you are trained through virtualreality that you are taught a mistake and reality you exercise the mistake. Who is liable . The vr manufacturer . We were looking at these issues a long time ago. T became known as def con my favorite movie, wargames. The main character is from seattle. Def con plays a big role. In the early days i was a phone freak her. The number three key on your telephone is the def key. I was living with a hiphop producer. Im talking about this hacker convention. A hiphop guys dont know about hacking. As an describing the party one says that sounds def. It all came together perfectly. Def con. Host what is a phone freaker . Jeff the phone freakers exploited the telephone network. Steve wozniak, steve jobs, bill gates, these people who produce blue boxes that would allow you to place free phone calls. Back in the day the phone network was the Largest Network in the world. If you wanted to explore you basically were exploring that network. At work hackers were exploring the precursor. Moviers specialized in copy protection. Game, crackers learned how the game was protected, reversed engineered it and then got around them. Was the three main communities. They had a different interest. Telecommunications, software protection. Now the line is blurred. On, as criminals ,ntered, it wasnt just a game and joy of discovery. It became money. Criminals came in and borrow techniques from anywhere they could. They used to try to recruit hackers. The criminals send people to college and university. They make a lot of money from these campaigns. They have giant research and development agenda. They dont need the Hacking Community anymore. We are trying to figure out what they are doing. They are doing this as a fulltime moneymaking enterprise and the put in a lot of resources. I think what is going on now is the press did not know how to explain the criminal use of technology. They borrowed the term hacker, which was describing a skill set and use that to describe criminals using computers. Instead of saying they broke into the bank, the hackers broke into the bank. That caused the schism. Would still refer to themselves as hackers. To the outside world, we were security professionals. It was too long to have this conversation about what a hacker is or isnt. It is a skill set just like you have a criminal plumber, or a great plumber. The skill set is the hacking. The motivation is what differs. Hackers that white hack and black cat hackers . Jeff that was attempting to describe motivation. Criminal hackers were going to be called spiders. Then the World Wide Web got invented. We are going to call them crackers. The cracking community was like that is us, we are not criminals. Became colors of your hats. You could tell who the good guys were by the color pats. That is how it came about. Hacker, it isical really muddied. I just stick with criminal and not criminal. Host who attends this . Jeff black hat, hard to say. Probably around 15,000 people. It is a long program. There is training and the main conference. Some people come just for the conference. , 25,000. Pretty big. It is interesting. For black hat to me you can preregister. For def con it is all cash. There is no credit card records to subpoena. It is optimized for speed of registering people and not being a target for Law Enforcement. When we told people we were coming out here, turn off your phone. Dont use a money machine. Electronic when you are down there. Jeff that is the myth. Now, it is remember pretty hostile everywhere. Haveevery airport seems to a fake cell tower. If youre going to steal somebodys login why not at the business lounge . That is where highvalue targets are. If you monitor, you will see these fake stations. D. C. Has a fake cell tower. This is the way that it is. If you are a criminal and you can build a backpack to intercept information, that is so much more low risk than trying to rob a bank. Bad guys will try to do that. You have hackers who want to test things out. They know it is a freeforall. They will be fake cell towers. People trying to detect the fake towers. Law enforcement trying to detect people. For intelligence. Foreign intelligence. E had a film document recruit they were french born legion, actually intelligence trying to identify who the people are they cared about. Thatd our own intelligence were following around their intelligence. Im sure there was another. That ire so many layers have learned not to be surprised by anything. Glimpses a fascinating of behind the curtain. How does Technology Work behind the curtain . What do other governments do . Winds and def con somebody came up to me and said i want introduce myself. Im with the Defense Intelligence agency. What are you doing here . Arent you supposed to count typewriters . What are you doing here at a hacking conference . He said im trying to figure out if other countries are trying to recruit our hackers. That sounds important, that how . Theres a room with 500 people in it. Who is trying to do what . What i do, i lean against this wall and watch for other people watching and Pay Attention to the watchers. Fascinating. Learning aear i love little more about how the world works. Host you had Michael Rodgers out here. Jeff no, the director before him. Keith alexander. That was fascinating. It took you years to get him out here. That position. We have gotten people from the dod. We have gotten a lot of other people. Never the director of the nsa. It was right before the snowden revelation. It was at the very peak of goodwill between the Hacking Community and Law Enforcement. After that it has been downhill. Host why . Jeff a couple of reasons. There was a sense that we were all working together. We were all trying to make the world a better place, trying to protect networks. Have fun while we were doing it. The intelligence folks had a bit of mystique but we knew they were using the same technology we were. It was an alien technology. They were just using it differently. We could relate. Over the years, whether it was dhs or fbi, in cips, they were interested in what they were doing. We were sort of becoming friends. Of you neverot really let on you were monitoring the citizens so severely. Hackers felthe that was too extreme. Whether it was because of government oversight lacking, maybe it is not their fault. Oversights fall. Whatever. Webers fault it was. A lot of people felt like trust was betrayed. A guy was telling you something it confidence and it ended up here. That is not why i told you about this. I told you about this to protect government systems, not to do something else. There is a huge coolingoff. That next year i asked the fed to please dont show up. Not that they were welcome. But there was going to be drama if they showed up publicly. There were angry people. I didnt want people fighting. I didnt want to have a scene. Tensions were hot. Since then things have cooled down. Intelligence agencies have engaged. He fcc, the ftc we get some people from dhs trying to do some stuff on smuggling. Parts, thegood noncontroversial parts. Trying to stop rowboat laying, make home routers more secure. Things everybody can identify with. I think dhs was talking about u. S. Cert and outreach to companies. Had we help learn what bad guys are doing. It will be a well before intelligence agencies are going theynvince hackers that are not impartial, but they have their cards on the table. That is just the way it is. Some people said it is better this way. We preferred the gray areas. It was getting too much light on us. I think it will be a pendulum. Would you like to have anonymous out here . Jeff they are here all the time. Anonymous is anonymous. Im sure there are hundreds. Organized crime people, intelligence pupil. That is the interesting thing. There is a lot of Law Enforcement from a lot of countries here learning. Theres a lot other people here learning. Academics, people who want to make movies about this. We have creating graded a melting pot. In the early days, vegas acted as a filter. We are not in the middle of san francisco. You have to get on an airplane and fly to vegas in the summer. You only came here if you were really interested. You didnt just hop on a train and come down. Yearshad a good formative of people who cared about this. That became the core for the conventions now. Now it seems people think they have to come because it is a big event. It went from Network Security people to telecom. Then marketers had show up because their customers were here. At its heart, at its core are these technologists, hackers trying to figure out how the Technology Works and how what to do about it. As long as you can keep that, the heart of the conference will keep beating. Host are you glad it is growing . Jeff i love the growth. I hate the growth. It is both. Im conflicted over it. When i started def con, there were two other hacking conferences. They were invite only. I wasnt invited. Or i couldnt get there. I was too young and wasnt traveling to atlanta. I decided if im doing a conference its going to be open to everybody. That led to problems. If it is invite only, how many people are going to show up . Had you plan for something when you dont know how many are going to show up . If you dont know who is showing up, what prevents 100 Law Enforcement people from showing up . You cant control the demographic. On the other hand, they are interested. They care enough to show up. Maybe they will add and contribute. That is how it has worked out. People the first year, to 25,000 people this year. Isis bigger that it reflecting the changing demographics. More women are involved. More artists are involved. More large enterprise. In the early days we were hacking on two or three technologies. You couldnt get there without the growth. Some conferences are still invite only. They stay small. There is absolutely a place for that. Consciously i wasnt going to be that elitist. I was going to let anybody show up. I have to live with the conscious the consequences. Keep anthe tenets or open door policy. Host when did you start hacking . Jeff when i was 12 or 13. It depends on hacking. I didnt think i was a hacker until 14 or 15. In hindsight, i probably was. I was copying games, reverse engineering protection. More about overclocking to make your computer go faster. Trying to get more out of your pc. Phoneon i was into freaking. I caught a hacker breaking into my Bulletin Board system. When i caught him, he was like id dont know what you are doing, the you are doing something. , you caught me. This is how i did it. As soon as it is explained to me , it turned on a light ball. Of course you can do that. Why had i never thought you could get around my limits by just changing one number . Of course you can do that. That made me change before that moment. Before, Technology Just kind of worked. And then i questioned every assumption. They are clearly not doing what i thought they were doing. Host did you ever get in trouble . Jeff no. But back then come a there were no laws against any hacking. Different than today. Im worried about the current generation. These federal sentencing runmums, you could automated tools and get more jail time than driving drunk and killing someone. Sentencing guidelines are crazy. You see this sometimes. I want to participate in civil disobedience. Im going to tos that evil bank. He has a felony conviction now and is in jail for a number of years. His employment options are destroyed. Or participating im not saying that is right for legal, or should be legal. Im saying the panache punishment is disproportional to the harm. That didnt exist when i was a kid. Back then, there wasnt really anything online that you could harm. The mentality was look but dont touch. It came from ham radio operators. You can listen into people, whatever you hear wirelessly is legal. If you act on it, that becomes illegal. This is an fcc law. If you go to their house and still cash, it is an additional crime that you learned it and acted on it. That is where this came from. Explore these networks. Even if you break in. Dont touch anything. You are there as explorers. Still of that old oldschool hackers still think that way. The problem is the Computer Fraud and abuse act now really treats just even looking as a crime. With some bizarre results. In the late created 1980s. So, it is predicated on this concept of permission. If you run a Bulletin Board you permitting me to login. You are not giving me permission to break in. If you read that law, any time you connect to a website, you are not hitting permission. Getting permission. This islot of what tripped up aaron swartz, his downloading of legal documents he had permission to download. They claimed we didnt give you permission to download all of them. He took that permission to mean i will automated and download everything. Charged and he was a zealous prosecutor was trying to give him federal maximums. Eventually he committed suicide over that. ,ownloading a lot of documents maximum sentencing. These problems are still working through as a society. Isse changes in technology our what is forcing the issue. Orot of folks intentionally unintentionally are people at these conferences. They are pushing the technology. They are seeing what it is capable of. A lot of times you run into the law anyway the law never intended. Host besides yourself on the convention floor, who else will be a rock star to the folks attending . Jeff i dont like the term rock star. Theres a lot of people. As a community we have done a good job of trying to mentor the next generation. There are some rock stars that left on a show. One of the greatest was barnes. Barnaby jack who passed away. He was famous for hacking an atm machine onstage. He hacked it and made it spit hills out on stage. The makers were saying that is not possible. If he is going to show you that it is possible hes going to do in the most spectacular way. Spent a celebration, he months trying to figure out how atms work. It took him a year of work and it common aided in 40 minutes. You get a lot of that. I have been working on this for two years. It is all going to come out in minutes. My years of effort. When you see what you see on stage you have to respect this work that has been done before. All the other people who made it possible, they are standing on the shoulders of giants. Nobody here just invented it. It is like a musician. You are always on the shoulders of those before you. Some people are more famous than others. Charlie miller, chris bell a check famous for hacking smart cars. They did it in spectacular fashion. I remember him trying to get Warranty Service on his car. What happened to this car . Nothing. People, and a of lot of are really getting involved. I find that the most interesting. As a Tech Community and Hacking Community we are just not good upbringing and other ethnicities and genders. For a number of reasons. 11 of attendees are women. That is may a person or two higher than the Tech Industry but lower than others. When you think about why is that, well, in the security field you are pretty much on call 24 hours a day. Something goes wrong, you are to blame. Defense, youing dont get a reward when you keep the hack around . You dont know when you keep the hacker out. It is kind of thankless. If you are a salesperson, you immediately know when you made a cell. The company is happy because you sold more product. Insecurity, you dont get those kind of feedback. I dont think a lot of people, when you are in college and evaluating where you want to go, security, maybe, but if you delve into it, the first years are brutal. It is sometimes a pretty thankless job. Host what threats are here today that werent here 5, 10 years ago. Jeff a lot of new threats. It reflects the technology we are bringing into our homes. Three years ago i didnt have to worry about the f ei or a bad guy trying to access my dialogue ory or alexa c three or siri or alexa. Technology is now potentially your spy. Maybe it is not the fbi. Maybe you are in a bad divorce and your wife or husband subpoenas the documents to prove you are cheating. That is not what the technology was therefore. But that is what it is going to be used for. Thermostatse smart and toasters. When was the last time you updated yourself on . Probably the last two years. When was the last time you change your Smoke Detector . Probably never. These devices are going to be in our house for five or 10 years, insecure, connected to the internet. What we are seeing is the beginning of a tidal wave of insecure pervasive the technology. Is greater replacing than the cost of the Smoke Detector. There is the physical labor involved with these devices. That is where we are going. We have a lot of risks we dont understand. We dont accept the risks yet because we dont understand them. , go to ford and ask what information are you sure with advertisers . They are not going to tell you that. You have a lot of risks, whether it is personal or against a lawsuit or financial, or behavioral. You are being placed in a bubble , almost a perfect marketing bubble. You will see the articles you want to see. You will get the radio songs that you like. You are never going to be exposed anything new. Hell will be targeted based on your behavior. You will slowly find yourself in could in a bubble of your own choosing based on your behaviors. The famous examples, i wish i could go to hawaii, and the next thing you know you are getting advertisements for hawaii. Imagine when it is more pervasive. Put your wifi on, they track that. They know everywhere you have been in the supermarket. How long you stood in front of pringles. Maybe we need to change the lineup. Lets adjust how we show products on the pringles ill. , they shareou know that with the next person. This is for totally legitimate purposes. Lets have less waste. The profile they build is amazing. Was happening in the background that we dont even realize is occurring. A lot of times maybe we should have a conversation about it. Instead, it is happening to us. That is going to present itself in bizarre ways. Imagine a president ial election when all of this demographic information is available about the kennedys . If you think now, if you were malicious and you happen to work at uber, and you had access to uber data . You could probably tell what your senators and were driving to. You can probably figure out who is meeting with who, where, and when, and who was cheating on his wife just between your cell phone and your uber. Of could uncover a lot meetings that are not supposed be uncovered. Nobody realizes this. It is there is a tradeoff, i guess. Hackers are more conscious but there is a tradeoff. We are making the tradeoff for usability and easeofuse but we are not doing it consciously. 60, and youre over Steering Wheel starts shaking, this is starting to get dangerous, but it is exciting. But i know i met the edge. With technology, your mouse does not vibrate. You dont know when you are doing anything risky online, and you dont know where the limits are. You blow through them all not realizing. When you do something risky online and it writes you in the its impossible to tell what the bad behavior was. Maybe your credit score is now down. Maybe your credit card has been stolen. Was that something from last month, what was the bad behavior that harmed me . You cant figure it out. You can never create this loop, unlike when you are driving fast and you realize im going to fast. Theres no feedback loop like that online. Host how do you personally protect yourself and your own devices . Jeff im a big believer in simplification. I dont have apps installed. Host do you use uber . Because of the tracking . Jeff why do they need to track me when they are not calling for a car. Apple has been making Good Progress about not allowing apps to geolocate you we were not running the app. Maybe once they put in these protections i will use more apps. Just because i like linkedin doesnt mean i want them to track everywhere i go. That was one of the changes. I stopped using linkedin. I use it for my pc. But is inconvenient decided to make that tradeoff. I dont need everywhere about recorded and monetized. Gettingpain, but i am less of a footprint. Im not getting the big bubble created around me. I block the as that i can. Sometimes there are some websites i cant go to. I cant go to fox news anonymously. I just dont go to fox news. I go to the other news sites that allow me to browse anonymously. I am missing that a little bit, but i think im getting more than i am losing in the bargain. Host do you use wifi . Jeff i am using wifi but i use my own vpn. To me it is an onramp. I use my own network to get to credit trusted systems. With this neutrality deregulation, a lot of ifps whether they do or dont legally, if they want to watch her traffic, see what you are doing and inject advertising into webpages you go to, or watch the websites you go to, and sell that. You are browsing your Favorite Sports Team and next thing youre getting sports advertising. Maybe your isp is trying to you areut never mind paying 50 a month. They are trying to make the or . 50 off of you. I will find a way to bypass it. I will get away from my local isp. That isp does not know who i am. They dont know my address. Yes. They know there is a vpn user that likes a sports team but they cant type that back to me. A lot of times im just trying to get the last mile im trying to get one mile away from my isp. They are in the position to watch everything i do to monetize it. Joined assange or Edward Snowden ever spoken remotely at this convention . Jeff no. Host would you want to have them on . Jeff we keep thinking about inviting them but i dont think so. Stealing a bunch of secrets doesnt make you a hacker. People can steal things and release them to the press. That doesnt make you a hacker. I will buy you a beer and listen to your stories, but that doesnt mean what are you going to tell hackers . To the press. We figure that out. T is unclear they have spoken at every venue they can speak at. They are not going to be revealing anything new. Thatheres a lot of people feel that was a violation of trust. Ofre are other avenues revealing what snowden could have revealed. Super controversial. Nothing new technically. So, give the stage to somebody else that is doing something. Host often at a convention one or two themes emerge. Ces severalnded times. There is always a theme. We have been hearing social engineering, liability. Are there things developing . Jeff i think you are right about liability. I have been speaking about liability for years. Car,u have a car, a smart and something goes wrong with the software, there is liability. And itmake a database sits in a server room and it crashes and you use lose millions of dollars theres no liability. What is the difference . One has liability, the other doesnt. They are just software. At some point the competitive disadvantage, oracle gets a free pass because they have a shrinkwrap license. Tesla doesnt get a pass because they have a person in the vehicle. Data on thet, the oracle server is affecting lives. To say that one gets no liability and one does doesnt make sense. I think what you are going to see is pressure from Companies Using software with liability to make the whole industry have liability. As soon as the toaster burns down a house, and kill someone, there is going to be liability. Right now the only thing running software, my phone, my tv. When it is running your whole house and something goes wrong you are going to be impacting not just geeks. You are going to impact average consumers that are not interested in the back story about why there toaster burn down the house. The industry has been resisting and resisting. Regulate, it self is quite to be like every other industry. Government is going to fix it for you. That ifn this period the industry cant figure out a way of guarantees or liability protections, if they dont figure it out by the government is not going to like the results. Im not going to like the results but there is no other avenue. Software is going to be so critical that they are not going to let there be no liability. Host two Companies Come here and recruit . Jeff oh yeah. Expensive recruiting. People come here looking to change their jobs. They are always looking for a new challenge. You tend to define people for sticking in their jobs for three or four years, then they are looking for green fields. Especially if they want to do something new. Industries. Rt car people trying to get to spacex or blue origin. There is always something new going on. Medical devices. There is a lot of action in that. You have these black boxes. These algorithms that are trying learning,ne machine based on your behavior. What time you wake up and go to sleep. When you are driving. They are trying to figure out ways to calculate new tables to insurance. On they have all this new data. It is an innovative time whether you like it or not. We are in the golden age of data. It is going to impact everything about us. You asked an earlier question about theme. I didnt think would be so popular, voting machine hacking. A couple years ago i started the temp tamper evidence village. They have the evidence bag and they tear it open. Got tothinking, youve be able to get around the evidence folder. Or the money back. Or you see on your meter a little led crom it that looks very roman. I figured how hard is it to get around that stuff . I bet these hackers do. I started a village, had you defeat evidence, unseal and below envelopes, get past seals. Nobody was doing that before. Now there is a whole body of knowledge about how you defeat these. I was looking at something new. Voting machines are in the news. Im sure people have been beating these things up. You can find them on ebay. I looked around and couldnt find information. Hackers have not been beating on these things. Academics have a few publications. I was like him a i dont know about these either but i that i can buy some on ebay and invite the hackers and. This year it is exploded. We have all these Voting Machines. ,e have county commissioners election officials, dhs. A crazyurned into semblance of anybody interested in hacking on these Voting Machines. The more you learn more scary it becomes. There is excitement because it wasnt done last year. Host you have a ba degree in criminal justice. Jeff the first graduating class in graduating in criminal justice at gonzaga. I thought i was going to be an fbi agent. We were getting all these talks and speakers. An fbi agent told this incredible story about chasing these bad guys. Unbelievable. I thought that was what i want to do. I didnt know any better. I took Computer Science classes. I never really knew what i wanted to do. I was enjoying sociology and criminal justice us as area i graduated, during the federal hiring freeze. Assess the only hiring was the fbi. Her the. I typed up my 20 page application and send it in. Crickets. Nothing. They said we lost that. Can you file that again . This is a secret way, they are going to compare the results from my first one. I sent it in again. A week later, two weeks later i get a call. I Start Talking to special agent murphy. Tell me about your vision. Well, i want to help people. He said note might your eyesight. Ok. 2020 in 19, 2060 and the other eye. He said that is not good enough. Sorry. Ok, sorry. That was it. No chance to have a career and the fbi. Six years later i tell an fbi agent that story. Said that is caught on to she said that was bogus. You should have caught on to that. Tosaid i bet if you applied the office in seattle you would have been fine. They probably just didnt want to deal with your paperwork. My whole life to one decision. Host where did you grow up . Jeff the bay area . Host for your parents in tech . Jeff no, teachers. Im the only business person. I always have the weird business stories. They have the weird academic stories. Host how many areas hours a day do you spend in front of a screen . Jeff you find in tech as i progressed in my career, do more advisory work, i do less handson. Just the nature. To stay connected, to feel i am , i still maintain the def con servers and update the systems. I spent a fair bit of time defending our network other people attacking it. That gives me enjoyment, and it is a huge pain in the ass. You have to do one to stay current. Now. More on mobile emails i can do quickly. Youre working on servers, you need widescreens, a lot of screen real estate. Host a black hat, with it be a badge of honor . Aff def con was hacked couple of times. Another hacker buddy saved up his exploit for nine months, waited until the convention to deface the website. Made a tongueincheek fun thing. Hat is when i took over eversons then i ran our servers. Decided i will not let anyone else write this stuff. Host does this will make you paranoid . Paranoid,uldnt say because everything is based on fact. It is not paranoid if they are really out to get you. People posting challenges online, warrants, you know they are out there. Yesterday i tweeted, someone is trying to break into my account. I kept getting all these emails. Whoever is trying to break in, please stop. I need my twitter account for the next week or so. Maybe afterward. But cut it out. And they stopped. Dont call it paranoia if they are really out for you. Paranoia comes in when people ascribe too much importance, may be to what they are doing. Task a is not going to 50 million satellite to spy on you going to the supermarket when the local cop can just follow you. That level of disconnect would be paranoia. If youre being a criminal, dont be surprised if Law Enforcement is after you. That is a little crazy. There is a lot of that sense of importance. Ets say you are a hacker you are starting to do something in the gray area. Maybe something that could be criminal. People always say, they are not coming after you. I am not doing anything. Ok, but they dont know you are not doing anything. They dont have some magical presence where someone is not doing something. Sometimes people feel it is unfair they subpoenaed me. But look at how you were behaving. Look at who your friends were. Way they are going to know if youre a bad guy is if they stir the pot. That was a lot of how lawenforcement in the early days would catch people. They would stir the pot, bust one person. Roll everybody up. It is not rocket science. Us with a dark market the police had one dark market, gathereded another, those peoples information. Just basic Law Enforcement tactics. I dont know where i got off on that route. Maybe the paranoia question. Host do you presume everything you put out there, everything on your phone is public . Host jeff you have to, i think. I am protected as best i can, but i am not going to be surprised if one of my questions comes back at me. , it was a pretty highprofile job. We knew our ceo was targeted. I remember talking to him about that, how is he thinking about this . He said every time i write and email, im writing for three audiences. Who im sending the email two, to the foreign nation states or spying on me, and the congressional inquiry if i ever have to testify. That is the job of the ceo. What kind of consulting work did you do at dhs . Jeff i am still involved. Us, we advise the secretary or whatever the secretary wants. It has been on how the department accelerates their cyber skills. How they develop in their workforce better skills . It could be resiliency in government. We did a task force. How can we minimize that . Wait fory, we just challenges dhs might be facing the question out and we go ahead and do that. Im involved in the atlantic thecil, bringing to def con cyber caucus. Week day and the timing the caucus can travel at of congressional time can only come on the weekend. We are always looking at the global governance. Where is this going from an International Perspective . 25 years ago, now you are advising governments and companies. There be a Data Protection agency . Canada has one. Privacy is not enumerated in the u. S. Constitution. Dhs is one of the only agencies has a privacy officer. That should be a standard thing. Should be a factor in whatever legislation you are proposing. That is too bad. As we see in the internet age, whatersonal information is is the value. Uber makes almost as much money selling Demographic Data on its riders as on rides. He is the creator and founder guestck cat and he is our. Cspan, where history unfolds daily. Was created as a Public Service by americas cable companies. Ofa discussion on the future data analytics. We will hear remarks from a scientist and Data Scientist to talks about the method he developed for analyzing an traitsuals personality based on their social media activity. See it tonight at 8 00 eastern on cspan. Right after that, the naacp hold a discussion on the criminal Justice System in the u. S. We will learn what changes need to be made to close such gaps. Cspans washington journal. Coming up, an attorney who specializes in the foreign registration act. Pollster a republican and democratic pollster talk about Public Opinion and the key issues facing the trump administration. Latestrth koreas intercontinental test. Be sure to watch washington journal. Join the discussion. Newsmakers, john yarmuth discusses health care and the 2018 budget and appropriations process which included defense spending. He currently serves as Ranking Member on the house budget committee. Next, President Trump awards medals of valor to five police thecers who responded to shooting that left skis the lease steve