ew right now, on "showbiz tonight" big news breaking. a jon and kate shocker. jon gosselin fired today from "jon & kate plus 8." tonight, the great mystery. was jon fired because of his partying and apparent womanizing? "showbiz tonight" has to ask, should the whole show be cancelled? the outrage over roman. legendary director roman polanski fights back after his arrest. can he ever be forgiven for having sex with a minor? tonight, big stars speak out and say, leave roman alone. >> we hope today, this latest order will be dropped. >> tonight, the explosive great debate. should roman polanski be forgiven? plus, have a city over the kardashians. chloe kardashian marries a big nba star. the big bucks battle over their wedding pictures. the obsession with the other kardashians. tonight, the big kardashian case of being famous for nothing. tv's first most provocative entertainment news show starts right now. hello. i'm a. jrngs hammer broadcasting tonight and every night from new york city. tonight, jon gosselin, you're fired. really. you're fired from your own show. jon gosselin was fired today from "jon & kate plus 8" after months of nonstop reports of partying, womanizing and basically, not acting like the kind of guy you'd want to leave your kids boy scout troop. why now? will kate go on? what about the eight kids? all burning questions that led to big news breaking today. hey, jon, don't let the door hit you on the way out. jon gosselin canned. today, it's a brand new bombshell announcement in what was a summer of jon and kate bombshells. first they announced their divorce in a dramatic episode of "jon & kate plus 8." and then jon's reported womanizings can paids are plastered on magazines around the world. but wait. there's more. then women start coming out of the woodwork claiming jon is a major player. >> it's ashame that he's a liar. >> and today, tlc announces we won't be seeing much of jon gosselin anymore. tlc announced as of november, "jon & kate plus 8" will be reinvented to become "kate plus 8." bye-bye john. >> i think this is a pretty big shock in a lot of ways because people really grew to love this family as "jon & kate plus 8." >> tlc says they are just evolving with the family. in a statement today they say -- will people miss their incessant bickering and constant drama? if the ratings are any indication the answer seems to be "yes." in june at the height of their drama when they announced they were getting divorce, almost 11 million people tuned in. as they settled into their separate lives and drama died down, viewers tuned out big-time. by september, ratings dropped 84% to just 1.7 million viewers. >> it's interesting also in their statement from tlc, they say they are working on a kate project for 2010. so perhaps she's trying to streamline this into a talking head or a talk show personality. >> kate's been flying solo for a while now. in august when she gave interviews like this one on nbc's "today" show '. and then there are reports that she shot a talk show pilot with celebrity chef, paula dean. and we can't forget about her gig as a guest co-host on abc's "the view." and joe bayhar was very interesting. >> her appearance on "the view" didn't generate a lot of cheers from a lot of critics. but the fact is, people do seem to identify with her. i think she does have a fan base. >> and as for her spurned ex-love, tlc says jon won't be totally out of the picture. he'll pop in every now and then to hang with the kids or pick a fight. what is she going to do with his career? aside from what appears to be his main gig as international man of mystery and father of eight, he's not ruling out a new reality show with michael lohan about divorced men dad clubs. >> are you going to do it? >> i don't know. contracts and all this stuff. that's why i have a legal team and management. they'll have to work it out. >> but tlc may have another plan for him and they stressed that jon still worked for them and says, quote -- today's announcement raises so many brand new questions about the future of jon gosselin's career of reality show king and whether the reinvented "kate plus 8" will be as successful without jon there to generate drama. >> i think people will give this show a chance. it get to 10 million viewership numbers again? probably not. >> so is jon gosselin in deep trouble here? joining me tonight from hollywood is kim, a senior editor for "in touch weekly" on news stands right now. and we've got hilo. tlc giving jon the boot. i'm not surprised this came down like this, what about you? >> the show needs a shakeup. when you lose that much of your viewership you have to do something. i don't necessarily think the show's in trouble. you have two parents raising eight kids. how do you top that? how do you bring in bigger ratings? a single mom raising eight kids. i think the show has potential to go back up again. >> i think it's something a lot of people can relate to more than all the drama from the tabloids. were your surprised, kim? kate rhymes better with eight than jon does. >> that's true. they should have done that in the beginning. i was surprised. although you look at the way the raidings have dropped. an 84% drop in ratings. that's huge. people were not tuning in and they didn't care so much about the kids cooking with emeril or playing with the american chopper guys. they cared about the conflict between jon and kate. people wanted to see the friction. they didn't care about them separately or kate doing a movie on the lawn for the kid. they wanted to see the fireworks. so i think people will tune in initially but i just don't see it ever being as huge as the "jon & kate plus 8" '. >> and this news has struck a big cord with people. as soon as we posted the news about jon being fired we put it on the "showbiz tonight" facebook page. it was like a firestorm. the responses were instant and unbelievable here's some entries -- >> what do you think? did jon's wild behavior and the fact he was hanging out with several different women since he and kate split detract from the image he had on the he to the point that people couldn't separate the two? >> absolutely. those 10 million viewers, i think it was an unrealistic number to maintain throughout the course of the show. it's still one of the highest-rated shows for tlc. if they keep it there and take him away a little bit and keep that hard-core audience, that's what they have to cater to and that's what they are trying to do. the jon gosselin spinoff is coming in some form or fashion. tlc is clear they still own the rights to them. he'll be fine. they'll bank on him as well. >> i bet there's some betting pools in vegas about how soon until jon poppingst up on his own reality show. it's inevitable. we got a lot of comments that were like, right on. and a lot were targeted at kate. here's a face book -- people are outraged that tlc is continuing with the show at all, kim. are they right? do you think that this is the signal that kate gets the boot as well and they call it quits? >> it doesn't sound like they are calling it quits. as they say in their statement they are also working on a kate project for 2010. maybe this is a "view" type of show that she's interested in. people will care about jon and kate for sure but this is their cash cow. this is how they make a living and how they pay for their kids and the beautiful house they live in. this is how they pay for everything. so i think, you ow, to criticize it as just a cash cow is kind of silly. this is their job. they both admitted that. they can't stop doing this because this is how they make money. >> there's plenty of jobs out there for people. the economy is rough but there's ways to make money. people do it every day with big families. >> but they spend time with their kids this way. >> kate is not oblivious to what's going on. she's not in the dark when it comes to comments like the one i just read. when she co-hosted the view, she addressed the fact that people think she should stop doing the show because of the sake of the kids. >> some people say, stop, pull out. >> could you? >> no. i could stop and i'd still have all the flack and lack of paycheck. let's face it. i have to take care of my children. i'm a single mom and i need to be out there working hard. >> all right. do you think right now kate is out there celebrating tonight? she gets rid of jon from the marriage. she gets rid of jon from the show. and most importantly, she keeps her paycheck and stay on tv. >> careful what you wish for. if the numbers stay steady or go up then this was the right move and she can celebrate. if the show goes downhill without jon, her relationships of going downhill without jon, might not have been a good move. >> good point. hila, ken, thanks. over to you. here's our "showbiz tonight" question of the day. jon fired from jon and kate. should the show be cancelled? also, big news breaking. outrage over roman polanski, the legendary director fighting back over his arrest. big stars are speaking out saying leave him alone. but is hollywood out of touch? should polanski be forgiven for having sex with a minor? this is is great "showbiz tonight" debate. and why do so many people go crazy over the kardashians? chloe marries a big nba star and there's a big battle over their photos. what is the obsession? anyone? why are they famous for nothing? and did you see this? the little spied they are crawled up the pope's arm. >> as the proper spoke, the spider kept reappearing, going down the pontiff's arm and then back up again. >> you can't make this stuff up. the pope versus the spider, caught on tape. this is "showbiz tonight" on hln. here's more stories from the "showbiz tonight" newsroom making news right now. e tonight." i'm a.j. hammer. first it was obama versus the fly. and now the pope versus the spider. a spider actually hitched a ride on the pope while he was giving a speech in the czech republic. it was all caught on tape and now the story is being spun all over the internet. here's jeanne moos for tonight. >> substitute "pope" for water spout and you'll have the picture. only in this case no rains washed him out. as he spoke in a medieval castle, the spider kept going up and down his arm. and then back up again. ♪ the it see by the see spider went up the spout again ♪ >> when the spider's dimensions were so mesmerizing, could you call it it see by the si or whatever, when he crawled on the face and headed for his ear, he swatted at it and the camera cut away and missed it. probably a good thing for the pope's image not to pull an obama. of course, the spider that made a papal visit was endlessly revisited on youtube, folks adding music from "jaws" or some misspelled commentary gave way to arachnophobia. and not since an arachnib made such a impact. the pope had no problem that the spider wanted to take a walk on him. it actually even walked out with him. whether you find spiders scary, or cute, at least the pontiff didn't spout this. >> i got the sucker. >> that was "showbiz tonight." that wasn't the last of the it see by the see spider. the spider seen hanging from a web as the pope left the castle. a ton of calls have been coming into showbiz on call all about director roman polanski being arrested and possibly being shipped back to the u.s. to face a sentencing hearing for having sex with a 13-year-old girl. a hearing he skipped out on 30 years ago. we got a call from dan in arizona who thinks this is all a waste of time. >> caller: to heck with the escaped felon garbage. that witch hunt by the state of california and hollywood. they want to make an example of him. the girl doesn't want to press charges. therefore, there are no more charges therefore, it's ridiculous and makes us all look like fools. and wasting tax dollars again. >> and we heard from mike calling in from california, mike thinks that roman should definitely be held responsible for what he did. >> i think roman polanski should come back. what he did was terrible. and i don't trip it's right that people should just be let go because they ran away and now they've got away with it. he should come back and face the music. he should have done it years ago and it would have been over with. >> thank you, mike. call us at showbiz on call and let us know what you think or anything else on your mind. call the number on your screen. and tonight -- big news breaking about roman polanski's arrest. big stars are speaking out and defending him. >> we came to honor roman polanski as a great artist. but under these sudden and arrest kaying circumstances, we can only think of him today as a human being, uncertain of the year ahead. >> a lot of people are saying that hollywood is out of touch. roman had sex with a 13-year-old girl. why are so many stars rushing to support him? it's the great "showbiz tonight" debate. also making news, sarah palin's brand new attempt to make oodles and oodles of money and she's going rogue to do it. i'll tell you all about palin's new ven chir. you've got to hear this. and adam lambert, the runner-up on this season's "american idol." tonight i can tell you adam is beating out madonna and beating out the beatles. >> this is "showbiz tonight" on hln. more stories from the "showbiz tonight" newsroom making news right now. . welcome back to "showbiz tonight." i'm a.j. hammer. carrie prejean, calendar girl. she was the former miss california who got caught up in the miss usa same-sex marriage scandal. i can tell you carry is in the great american conservative women calendar, miss october. and columnist, michelle malkin is also in the calendar. kerry is wearing a whole lot more than she was during this whole black spider girl halloween costume showoff that she did. also making news, barbara streisa streisand's revelation about appearing in public. babs is out with a new cd and this morning on "the today show," she opened up about why she decided to come out of retirement and get back on the stage. >> we were skiing and we were at donna karan's house, my friend. liza minnelli got up to sing. i thought, how could she do that? get up in a living room and sing? this was very conscious and very challenging. i thought, why can't i do that? and so, i really set about, not trying to sing in a living room because that i don't think i ever could do. but it started me thinking that i should go back to performing on the stage again. >> i just think that's remarkable. barbra streisand's album is called "love is the answer." as soon as i posted the news on the facebook page that jon gosselin was fired from "jon & kate plus 8" our wall lit up. look at all the posts that keep coming in nonstop. while a lot of you are saying this was a good move i'll share a couple of other posts. t that c writing - writing -writing -- -- lee k. adds -- i'd like you to sign up to be a fan of the "showbiz tonight" facebook page. and follow us on twitter. we send out entertainment alerts as soon as they happen. time for our showbiz lineup. roman polanski strikes back. big stars are speaking out. they are defending him. should roman be forgiven for having sex with a 13 year old girl? it's the great debate. and also, chloe kardashian gets married and there's a huge big bucks fight over the pictures. why do so many people go nuts for the kardashians? aren't they famous for nothing? and sarah palin's new venture. she could make tons and tons of money off of this. and now, your showbiz news ticker from the "showbiz tonight" newsroom, making news right now. we placed leah's sofa in this glass box... full of black cats... hey, wait... no! to demonstrate the cleaning power of our newest pledge product. i'm gonna clean my couch with this pledge? not that pledge, leah. use the pledge fabric sweeper. it's quick and effective, removing as much pet hair... as 145 stinky lint roller sheets. wow! it really works! ooh, that is one big hairball. ( cat meows ) pick up pet hair. that's the beauty... of the pledge fabric sweeper. you'll find it where you find pledge. s.c. johnson, a family company. we came to honor roman polanski as a great artist. but under these sudden and arcaying circumstances we can only think of him today as a human being uncertain of the year ahead. now on "showbiz tonight," roman polanski strikes back. hollywood's biggest stars speaking out defending the legendary director. should he be forgiven for having sex with a 13-year-old girl? tonight, the great debate. and crazy over the kardashians. the battle over the pictures of chloe kardashian marrying a big nba star? why? what's up with kardashian mania? and the shocking facebook threat suggesting that president obama's life could be in jeopardy. and more stories breaking from the showbiz news ticker, tv's most provocative entertainment news channel continues right now. . welcome back to "showbiz tonight." it's 30 minutes past. hour. i'm a.j. hammer broadcasting tonight and every night from new york city. the worldwide outrage over roman polanski's arrest in switzerland and why are so many hollywood stars rushing to support a man who pled guilty to having sex with a 13-year-old girl over 30 years ago? here's the big news breaking. legendary director filed legal papers today to be released from a jail in switzerland. he was arrested on saturday under a extradition request from the united states. more big news breaking tonight -- some of hollywood's biggest stars organize a huge petition to set him free. but big backlash as they were accused of being out of touch. the great debate. should roman polanski be forgiven for having sex with a minor? here's the results from late today. we have carlos diaz, the correspondent for "extra." and we have a former l.a. crimes sex attorney. this is spreading like wildfire. as we know, polanski was heading to a zurich film festival to get a lifetime achievement award. this is what was written -- carlos diaz, off to you first. fair to compare roman polanski to a pedophile priest? >> any time you use the word "pedophile" anything after "pedophile" doesn't matter. that's bad enough. i think it's wrong because of the fact that pedophile is one of the things you can be, if not the worst thing you can be. a priest exemplifies the truest form of innocence that you can try to attain. so those two things, they are not good. being a pedophile in general is bad enough on its own. >> i hear what you're saying. robin, i want to get your take on, at least, the analogy. i think it's a pretty fair analogy for this reverend to be making in this blog about roman polanski? >> i absolutely agree. roman polanski, if it wasn't him or a teacher or gardner or anyone else, there would be a huge outrage. not just about the award but it's about absconding and evading justice. and then have the entertainment business come together and rally around and support that? you would never see that in any other case. >> playing into the reverend's argument is that so many people in hollywood, according to him, seem to have their heads up their you-know-whats's. >> and today, some of hollywood's biggest stars and director is circulating this petition demanding that he is freed from custody. let me read a few nameless. woody allen. martin scorsese. and over at the zurich film festival where polanski was supposed to be honored, you have actress deborah winger speaking out on behalf of a five-member film festival journey 123450 we came to honor roman polanski as a great artist but under these sudden and archaing, we can only think of him as a human being, uncertain of the year ahead. we hope this is dropped and it's based on a three-decade old case that is all but dead except for a minor technicality. we stand by and await his release and his master work. >> three decades old but he still had sex with a 13 year old. a lot of people will say hearing that and seeing the petition, this whole outcry show that too many in hollywood are out of touch. what do you think? >> i think it's like if you had a co-worker at "showbiz tonight" or headline news and you knew him well and found out some deep, dark secret about him, you might not want to defend this person. i do not think and i'm in no way saying what he did was right. it was a terrible, terrible thing. i might not want woody allen on that list. i might say, yeah, exactly. but the fact of the matter is, hollywood, these people aren't out of touch, they are just defending their friend. >> i hear that as well, but when you really stop to think about it, they are defending their friend against the crime that he admitted, having sex with a 13 year old. and this was from film giant, harvey weinstein. he says -- we're calling every filmmaker we can to help fix this terrible situation. robin is it just wrong to show such forgiveness to a man that had sex with a 13 year old, no matter how much time has passed or how legendary a filmmaker he is? >> you can forgive anybody you want but it's a lot better to forgive them once they accepted responsibility. the fact that these people coming together and rallying around him and using the power of the media, which should be here to support victims. should be here to hope that people come forward and instead, are using the power to defend someone who committed a crime. admitted to committing the crime. and also got a benefit of a fantastic deal that he should be jumping up and down and taking right now. >> and everybody's talking about this. we're getting a good sense here at "showbiz tonight" of how you, the viewers are feeling about this. late this afternoon we received this -- an unusually large response. we asked this on air and online. as you see, look at that, only 23% is said "yes." 77% no, he should not be forgiven. carlos, do you get why so many people are unwilling to forgive him and even to so many are willing to put this behind them including the victim? >> i completely agree with the poll. he should be behind bars for what he did. but on robin's point about the media being involved in this. the media got involved in 2003. larry king put the victim on his show and the victim in this case, who is now into her 40s, said she doesn't think and didn't think at the time, that roman polanski should spend any time behind mars. she didn't seem maladjusted by the encounter. i know people will say, how can you say that? you're not a psychiatrist all i'm saying is that she's come forward on several different occasions and says that she forgives him for what happened on that one particular night. >> and they says she just wants it to go away because every time it comes back into the news a lot of attention is thrust on her family. she's living quietly without this now and so you can understand where she's coming from as far as all the attention. the debate is playing out. let me play crystal from texas, who says polanski should be free. >> caller: if than man served time, regardless, he served his time. it's done. it's over with. i understand there's no statute of limitations on this. he's served his time. it's done and over with. let it alone. leave him alone. he done served his time. >> crystal i appreciate your call. i'm not sure, robin we're hear this from a lot of people but does the caller have it right or is she way off? >> that's incorrect. he only served 42 days in jail and pled to a crime that had a range of 16 months or three years in the state prison. and it was up to the court and everybody else at the time, to decide what amount he was going to get. and once the day of sentencing came, which would have been the day he would have found out what his sentence was and then would have had to turn himself in, that's when he absconded. so he hadn't paid the time. >> we'll be debating this for days. it's important to know all the facts in the case. tonight, sarah palin is hoping to get really rich by going rogue! the startling news revealed today about the former governor of alaska's next great venture. could this be just the ticket for her to become the top of the next republican presidential ticket? all right, you know me. i love the stars and i love star weddings. can somebody please explain to me what is the deal with the kardashian wedding frenzy. chloe kardashian marries a big nba star and now there's a big money issue over their wedding pictures. the bizarre fascination for the family famous for knotting. >> and the facebook point about president obama's life being in danger. time for our showbiz news taker. more stories from the "showbiz tonight" newsroom making news right now. go big stories breaking today. we know the cause of d.j. a.m.'s sudden and tragic death. the medical examer from new york city confirmed that adamgold goldstein died of an accidental overdose of drugs. he dated mandy moore and nicole richie was found dead. and mel's startling claim. mel gibson asking a judge to wipe his record clean of the 2006 drunk driving arrest that spawned his infamous antisemitic rant. mel's lawyer got the ball rolling saying actor has kept his nose clean during his three-year probation and deserves to have the nasty incident erased. he poll guidesed and begged for forgiveness for his rants after he went out on a cop when he got stopped for speeding saying jews are responsible for all the wars in the world. welcome back. the kardashian craziness. i got to ask -- what the heck is going on here? an all-out war erupted over the wedding pictures of reality star chloe kardashian and nba star lamar odom. why in the world would those pictures be worth up to half a million dollars? and while i'm at it, what is the deal with the obsession with the kardashians. chloe, kim, courtney, are they the ultimate example of being famous for nothing? we have kim from hollywood, senior editor for "in touch weekly." and hila. i brought you both here to help me understand the whole kardashian craziness. chloe kardashian getting married to lamar odom in this lavish, star-studded wedding. they've known each other a month. we'll see this on e "keeping up with the kardashians." and the paparazzi seems to follow them everywhere they go. are the kardashians the perfect example of being famous for doing knot something. >> i want to say congratulations to the newlyweds. second of all, they are famous for being really, really good at self-promoting themselves and marketing, and not to mentioning with being sexy. anyone who says they don't have talent, they don't know what they are talking about. that's their talent and they are good at it. most celebrities in hollywood would be die to be as skilled as they are at self-promoting. good for them. >> well, that's a really diplomatic way of saying they are basically famous for no real reason that one should be famous. kim, help me out. >> hila is right. they resectiony and beautiful and they have the bruce jenner connection. so they have the sports connection and the o.j. connection in their family. they have a reality show and they are good at promoting themselves. and they are willing to let us, the viewers, in on the detailed and very intimate parts of their life and that's what makes them so fascinating. these days when celebrities are doing that when tmz comes along they just open themselves up and willing to put themselves out there and let us all in so we feel like we're part of the kardashian clan as well. >> i just want to point out -- say that again, hila? >> brad pitt wasn't famous at one point. same thing with julia roberts and tom hanks. this show made them 235i house and this is why they are famous. don't take that away. >> it's confusing to me. you referenced their late father who was a part of the whole o.j. trial in the '90s. we should give credit to the kardashians, a suppose, for what you're saying, chloe is selling these wedding photos that could get up to half a million bucks. sister kim gets paid to show up on any red carpet. and court knee makes money off of her unexpected pregnancy. so i guess they laugh all the way to the bank, aren't they? >> exactly. i had no surprise that the day of the wedding, all of a sudden news hits the blogs that kim and reggie bush are back together again. very calculated. the drama with the pictures, i'm sure, is very calculated. i won't hold anything against them for trying to make a buck and make it in hollywood. >> good for them. let's move on. another big story breaking. sarah palin goes rogue. we learned sarah palin's memoir being rushed into bookstores on november 17th. the title "going rogue, an american life." they already preprinted over a million copies for release. this is just going to make her superrich, just what she's always wanted, it seems. >> they are apparently printing 1.9 million copies, same as ted kennedy's autobiography that was released. so here we have sarah palin, that nobody heard of up until about a year ago, going up against ted kennedy. people have been wrig writing sarah palin's political obituary since the day john mccain hired her. even if you hate her, even if you love her. the fact is republicans would love to have her at their fundraisers. talk show hosts want to interview her. wherever she goes she makes news. whether she'll be president, that's up for debate. >> how long she'll be around is up for debate, too. >> and this morning on "the view" they suggested that the book's date was moved up so 350e78 could get interested in it before she disappears. >> this keeps her name out there since she resigned as a governor, so now she's -- >> finished it quickly. >> you think maybe she's trying to beat some other book by somebody else? >> of course. it's 400 pages or something. i didn't know she had that much to say. >> quickly, do you think people will have that much interest in what palin has to say? >> 100%. political aspirations i can't speak on that. but in terms of hollywood, she's a home run. give her a talk show and she could rival oprah winfrey. i guarantee you. >> thanks, could rival oprah winfrey, i guarantee it. and this is unbelievable! the "american idol" runner-up debut is not out for two months, but he is out selling madonna. the sales have been beating madonna and the beatles for the number one spot. could adam be the next jennifer hudson? tonight we have the disturbing facebook threat targeting the president's life. this is unbelievable. we have the details and outrage over the shocking threat. plus the message the secret service has for facebook fans. more stories from the ticker making news right now. welcome back to "showbiz tonight." there is a target against president obama. somebody posted a poll on facebook asking should a obama be killed? and there were disturbing choices. maybe, if he cuts my health care. and it's against federal law to threaten the president on facebook or anywhere, and tonight the secret service is not messing around. there is a major investigation to find the people behind the poll. if they are busted, they are in hot water. now, michelle obama, her biggest weakness is piz. it's tough to say no when you can have anything you like. for me it's about setting up new boundaries. what michelle says really balances things out is what she calls her inner jock. she is up at 4:30 every morning to workout. and at 45 she says she is in the best shape of her life and has her family to thank for that. on monday we asked you to vote on the showbiz question of the day. moments ago we had the final results. roman polanski arrested: should he be forgiven for having sex with a minor. 23% said yes, and 77% no. don from tennessee says this. that is it for "showbiz tonight." remember, you can always catch "showbiz tonight" on the 11s, at 11:00 in the morning and then in the evening at 11:00 eastern. rejected two amentments to run a public insurance option, and the only compromise health bill so far. the chairman max baucus says they will filibuster anybody that will get a health care reform bill that will survive a full senate vote. that's the british navy sinking a fishing boat. it had $384 million worth of cocaine hidden on it. and tense moments on a bridge in ohio last weekend. a man threatened to jump. thankfully he was safely taken down. that's a look at the news. zb does what happened in zurich stay in zurich? and the devine bette midler will be dropping by the student. and my new bff, sarah palin has written a book. this is a family of literary lions, just like the buck laez. welcome,everybody. glad you are here for my opening night. make yourself at home. we have a lot to cover in an hour so let's dive in. when sarah palin quit her governor's job, people wondered what she had up the sleeve of hers, and turns out it was a book. it is called "going rogue" and it's over 400 pages. and bay, let me start with you. is this why she quit, to write a memoir? >> no, she had the book before the hand but she moved the whole schedule up because she resigned and had time to work on the book. i think she resigned because there was so many lawsuits being filed against her. people in alaska were trying to stop the progress she was making. >> why did she use the word rogue in the title? why not maverick? >> as i understand it, that's basically what the mccain started to feel, that she was a rogue and moved out on her own and did her own thing and was not staying within the campaign limits of what they placed on her. >> do you think it's negative to say rogue? >> i think going rogue is when somebody doesn't stick to the plan. i think that's what she means. i don't know. >> it has not hurt her, has it? she has 1.5 million until first edition. >> obama's book "dreams of my father" 165 million advance. hillary clinton $8 million and she got $7 million. and somebody paid $63,000 to eat dinner with her. she made a boat load of money in china. have you to give her a little credit, don't you? >> i don't know if i have to give her credit, but she is certainly a good fund-raiser, i guess. she inspires people to give her money. i think she has an i iconic status. >> well, you know, the reason is she is somebody that is attracted enormous attention, and exciting and electric trau fiing? >> i had not been on such an exciting convention from when she went on the stage. we were uninterested in this ticket, and john mccain picked her and just overnight sensation. we were just thrilled to death. >> are you as thrilled with that? >> i don't believe john mccain picked her. somebody advised her to do so. it would have been joe lieberman, which would not have been an electricfing ticket. >> no, it would have been a bust. >> what i do find interesting is how well she handled being thrown out there and could do it. to be put out on a stage so quickly, and i'm assume she did not have a lot of notice she would be picked. >> do you think the that's the reason she seemed tongue tied in conversations. she doesn't seem to be able to make a coherent point in many opinions, and i have seen her many times. >> yeah, joy, i agree with you where she has been caution and i think they programmed her, you can't say this and you have to say it this way and not that way, and that's not who she is. she is better at being herself. she wanted to be a good team player, so she did exactly what the mccain people wanted. they should have had her on talk radio where she could work through these issues. >> but she is hiding from the media now. she has free reign to come out and be as smart as she wants to be? >> yeah, and she will come out. >> we will see her in the interviews for the book, and whether she is articulate enough for president. do you think she wants to run, is that what her plan is? >> i don't know if she wants to run or not run. i think she enjoys public life and being involved in the process. i don't know why anybody would want to be president, to tell you the truth. it seems to me to be one of the most unpleasant jobs in the world. i would also say some of the inarcti inarticulatene inarticulateness. i don't know that she has a wide breath of knowledge. >> do you think she is curious? >> i think she is extraordinary competent, and i think she is a quick study or could not have gone up against joe biden in that debate and held her own. she did a really fine job. i think she is a quick study as well. but i do agree on one point, and she has come back to the east coast and been on television, and she doesn't seem prepared as if she has her lines down, and i don't know if she really thinks that she can say anything she wants and it works. but she needs to be more disciplined -- >> she doesn't seem to be wanting to do her homework is what you are saying? >> maybe this book as helped her. maybe things will turn around. she has plenty of time. i agree with you, she will have to be far more disciplined, and focused on the issues, and coming up with clear ways of making her point. >> i want to show you what david said this morning on morni"morn joe." >> one thing we know, people get less educated. it causes people to shift away from the republican party. >> basically he is saying as you get smarter and more educated you go away from the republican party. respond to that? >> i have a couple things to say about that. i don't think it's about book smart to tell you the truth. i think what makes a person on democratic or republican or responsive is emotionally responsive. today's republican party has moved so far from lincoln, but today's republican party is ant anti-intellectual. it's a very narrow focus. >> there is music in my ear. >> yeah, because we ran out of time. don't go away. president obama would like for the olympics to be held in chicago in 2016. jack, you are not happy about the trip. why not? >> i am not unhappy. i wonder how it's going to play in peoria. last week they had the meeting where they thought the global warming was the death of us all. and where do you suppose the footprint is to fly there for a night and come winging it back. two 747th and air force one, and another that looks like it, and then, you know, this is -- this, to me, is not the message that was communicated to the other world leaders last week in pittsburgh about how the united states has to cut down on its carbon footprint. >> this is just one big fairy tale to you. why do you think it's important for him to go? >> i don't know. he has got no health care reform. there is no jobs. we don't have any reform of the clowns on wall street that took us down the sewer about a year ago. maybe when the going gets this tough you go to denmark? i don't know what the reason is? >> does he have to go and be in america to do work? >> well, he could do a tesatelle appearance, without the dog and pony show. >> what about obama just in general? do you think he still has his mow joe, or is it getting to be where people think of him as another president? he came in on a sea of hysteria of warmth and love on the american people, and it doesn't seem like it's holding up right now. i don't know if it will change again. >> i think he is in trouble. i think health care reform bogged the country down over the summer. i think jobs are the issue number one in the economy and getting the economy back on track and regulating the banks and the wall street firms. those things have all taken a backseat to the increasingly acrimonious debate on health care reform, and i think it hurt him? >> you have to break a few eggs to make an omelet, right, jack? >> i guess so joe. >> is whoopie going to be on? >> she will at some point, and she will break a few eggs and legs, jack. thank you for coming on. some of the opposition to president obama has come down right scary. look at this poll. it asks should obama be killed. what is your reaction to the unchecked rage, ladies? >> the poll itself is an outrage. it should have been pulled down. i suspect the fellow behind it will be talking to his attorney soon. as for the rage, true anger in the country, joy. it's very legitimate. i saw it with the amnesty battles. americans feel they are losing the country and they are losing what they know to be good. and they see a washington not responsive to their concerns. they are bankrupting the country and becoming more and more involved in their lives and the lives of their families. that's what they are up in arms against. >> i disagree entirely. i wish that was true what you are saying. what this rage at obama from the tea partiers to the 9/12ers, this is racially motivated. this is race. there is the increasing -- i guest the post millennial generation. this is a country increasingly multicultural. there is so much racism that has come to the surface because of obama. there is racism and not about taxes or health care. >> how do you know? that's not something you can prove directly? >> you could take a look at a lot of signs being held up at the rallies. secondly, it's all while people. if they were upset about taxes or bloated government or dishonesty, the bush administration would have been a prime target for all of these things. >> you are nodding. she is agreeing -- >> no, i am nodding because there was enormous anger at the bush administration. i was out there at a number of rallies for the bush campaign. and i was wondering why do you think they threw out all the republicans. 75% of the americans disagreed where we were going under bush and the republicans. that's why they gave a chance to obama. and it has nothing to do with his race, but it's his policies and it's an outrage to suggest that the americans who truly love their country and are willing to express themselves publicly and want to see change, and this is the only way they know how to do it, that they are suddenly racists because they disagree with a liberal president. >> well, the posters are racists posters. >> that's happening in liberal rallies. >> nobody had a poster that he was a white boy. >> well, what about the amnesty days, when the left was out there with anti-american signs. >> give me an example. >> they turned the american flag upside down. what does that say? >> this negative thing, and i know you have a lot of ties through your brother's campaigns -- >> or maybe myself. >> but -- i was saying from the capacity of a political advisor, i know that you know what i am talking about, and i know that you, like many people, don't want to address this. i don't know why. there is nothing wrong with discussing racial issues. there is a real problem. there is 5% of people in a poll recently where they were asked would you ever vote for a black candidate, and the answer was no. that's millions of people translated into the aggregate. >> 70% supported obama in january. there were a whole lot of white people and were proud of the fact -- >> we are not talking about that. that's not them. they are not tea bagging? >> no, they are. >> no, they are not. >> i am joy. we were talking about the assassination poll on the enter knelt. we have never seen that for any other president? >> did you hear what was said about bush? >> but nobody said let's kill him? >> there were terrible statements about him. and i don't think all liberals thought that. i think they disagreed with the policies. the key is there are certain elements that say if i disagree with the health care or cap and trade or the war policies, somehow i am a racist. >> if it were about policy -- >> maybe you are not, but some people are. i think she is saying some are. not everybody. >> is there some racism left in the country? absolutely. but you cannot say the entirety party movement -- i do know these people -- >> you can't know all of them. >> i was out there on the border and i knew those people, and it was inspiring to see the great americans out there working. >> our own department of homeland security that racial hate crimes and right wing race-related groups are on the rise. now i know we will never get through this and you and i will never see this, but this is racists. >> are you a little scared of the fact that a lot of these people are carrying guns? >> that's the american way to carry a gun. why shouldn't they carry guns? >> somebody could have a drink and take it out and shirt. >> what if groups of black people showed up armed? we would be on lock down with martial law? >> if obama is in the front and there are rallies out there, and there is a vigorous dialogue going on in the country. >> yeah, and they want to see his birth certificate and he is going to kill old people. >> they disagree of obama's health care, and they don't want it and congress will try to push it through. they have a right to express themselves and not be called names because of it. >> i have to end it there. coming up, "jon and kate plus eight" minus one. good luck, joy, i love you. for everybody else, take a little time to enjoy the joy. call me almost like a lame fish. excuse me, i was taking care of the kids. i took a lot of abuse from her. > that was john gosselin on "good morning america" earlier this month. she won't have to worry about that whole being abused thing on tv anymore. because tlc has announced that "jon and kate plus eight" will be renamed to "kate plus eight." janet, what a dumb title. kate plus eight, couldn't they do anything better than that. >> when i was at the magazine, we knew this was going to happen. eventually he would do himself in. this is a man desperate to get out of the show. he did everything he could to embarrass him, embarrass her, embarrass the family. and we had been hearing he wasn't even showing up to work on time. they kind of were left with no choice, but i also think that his off-camera antics got so embarrassing, so ridiculous, that for them to call themselves a reality show anymore is impossible if they're not incorporating those elements. the best level of abuse you could give to them now is to just get rid of him all together. >> did she really abuse him? there was talk of her being, how shall i put that, bitchy, is that true. >> she was bitchy. >> when you have eight kids to feed and clothe and -- >> i have two kids and i'm a little bitchy at times also. that's why american women could get behind the show. they didn't like her, they didn't like her behavior, but there's elements they didn't like about themselves. >> now that she has the show by herself now, "kate plus eight." she carried eight kids. can she carry the show? >> the ratings are down, the ratings are way down. >> it went from 10.6 million to 8.6 million that's quite a drop. >> the -- is it going to survive without the tension and the fighting? >> it's never getting back up to 10 million viewers. >> maybe that's why kate wants to do another show. she has a pilot with paula deem. >> you can only milk those children for so long. when they're 14, it's not so cute. >> they could have a food fight, that could help. >> somebody will throw something at her, i will guarantee you. >> then "in touch" reflects that john is apologizing, he wants to put the divorce on hold. he says he doesn't know now. does he regret throwing her under the bus? >> he's thrown her under the bus so badly, you can't pick that course up. see, i kind of doubt he wants back in. you don't go on national tv and say that you're 23-year-old pot smoking new woman is your soul mate and your wife never was. he said some things that you cannot take back. >> what about that other one, sanford when he said he found his soul mate. it's one thing to go and have sex with another woman but don't say it's your soul mate. >> yeah, yeah. >> why do we care about these people? i blame you mostly. >> yeah, i'm sorry. >> you and "us weekly." who hyped this thing up for us? >> i started "us weekly" it was a good little story. i didn't mean for it to become the summer of jon and kate now. >> it's like the summer of sam. thanks very much for coming on. bette midler joins me a little later. stick around. ññññññññññ today, legendary director roman pollansky is sitting in a swiss jail and fighting extradition to the united states. maybe he should have thought of all this before having sex with a 13-year-old three decades ago. joining me to discuss this is my guests. is he going to jail? >> here's a guy who has pled guilty. she has admitted that he had unlawful sexual intercourse with a 13-year-old. absolutely he should go to jail. but the question is whether or not the swiss authority also allow the united states to extradite him back to be sentenced on the crime that he already admitted his guilt to. remember, he was facing the sentencing in 1978. he flew the coup. he flew the cooperate. he left the country. >> it's not that simple. he served time. >> how much time did he serve? >> he served 43 days and they thought they had a deal and they were told that the judge was going to renege on the deal and based on knowing that the judge was going to renege on the deal, there was an excellent documentary about this. the case went over to his side now and is telling what happened. there's a lot that went on that we don't even know about. >> if they're going to renege on the deal, what happens is they allow you to withdraw the plea. he didn't want to go to trial. he applied a 13-year-old with alcohol and quaaludes and had sex with her. he was charged with rape, and he could have gotten 50 years and plead to eight years. >> he admitted to having sex with a minor. >> let's listen to what he said in an hbo documentary. >> i run away because i think i was very unfortunate to have a judge misuse justice, and he was playing with me for a period of a year. >> do you know what the shame of this is? if you admitted to having sex with a child, you now say the judge is unfair. last year he brought a motion in california, and the judge said if you think the judge was unfair then, submit yourself to the jurisdiction of the united states and i will consider it. that's all he needs to do is come back to the u.s. and face the music. >> he doesn't want to go to jail. >> who does? >> don't you believe if you do the crime, you should do the time, no matter when it was? >> sometimes yes. and in this case, the woman, samantha giemer who's 45 years old and is a lovely person, she said she doesn't think it should go on. she said everybody should put this behind them. do you want to show the clip. >> check out what she said on larry king in 2003. >> i got over it a long time ago, i mean it's been a long time and i wasn't prepared to carry a lot of bad feelings with me. and further damage my life and continue, you know, the -- just the trauma of all of it, and today, i mean, i don't know, he is a stranger to me. >> good for her. she's moved on. but that doesn't mean that the criminal justice system should. it is not her against roman pollansky. >> was she paid off? >> there was some settlement. there was a settlement. but even a settlement would not require her to keep doing this defense. that was not a part of the settlement. so what's happened is, as the years have gone by and there's been efforts to bring him back to the united states and exonerate him, she's become more entrenched actually. i interviewed her in 2003 and last year when the documentary came out. she's become more entrenched in her position that he should be let go. >> it doesn't matter t truth is the man had sex, he is a pedophile with a 13-year-old. the fact she's forgiven him and she's moved on, good for her. it's the people of the state of california against polanski. >> war criminals should be tried and executed. >> i'm not saying that she's a war criminal. if you're a child and you're being sexual assaulted by someone who's 45 years old, that is a war crime, isn't it? >> but this isn't a typical case of pedophilia, there were a lot of stories, she will tell you herself, there were a lot of stories about the extenuating circumstances. >> why did he plead guilty?. why did he admit his crime in a voir dire. he admitted that he put his sexual part in hers when she was 13. that is rape as far as i'm concerned. >> it's not rape, he wasn't tried for rape, he wasn't convicted for rape. >> unlawful intercourse with a 13-year-old? >> did you hear the word rape in there? no. >> why didn't they call it rape? >> because he used all of his favors back then. he could have faced 50 years and he was going to get 18 months. come on. >> he used all of his favors back then because he's a celebrity, they gave him a plea bargain, he could have faced 18 years, they were giving him 15 months. >> listen to how hollywood is dealing with this. deborah winger reacted to pollansky's arrest, listen. >> we came to honor roman pollansky as a great artist, but under these sudden and arcane circumstances, we can only think of him today as a human being, uncertain of the year ahead. >> they're all rallying around him. >> they're all rallying around. >> there's a petition demanding his release and it's being signed by woody allen. hello! david linch, jonathan deming. tilda swenson, the actress. >> when the film came out, i think they had 100 directors who signed a support letter for him. >> what's their rationale? that's a great artist? >> the directors have been asked that he be let go. in that case, it's 31 years, he has never been any kind of -- >> that we know of. that we know of. >> that's true. he has a very good 20-year marriage. this was an isolated incident. >> out of 75 years, he only had a 20-year marriage? the guy's been doing something for 55 other years. >> you remember, he was married to sharon tate. she was murdered. >> that brings me to my last thing on this. do you feel any sympathy for him jeanine, the fact that he escaped the holocaust, that his family was killed in the holocaust, that sharon tate was despicably killed by the manson family, and he had to live with that. do you have any feeling about that? >> of course we do. you don't say to somebody that you can get away with murder and get away from taking a 13-year-old 13-year-old's innocence, because you're in pain. that's why i believe they said we're going to move on from this, we'll give you a few months and that will be the end of it. >> let's talk about what's happening now. >> let's talk about what is happening now. since the beginning of the year, his lawyers, based on the movie, have been in court trying to overturn the old case, bring in evidence, and also samantha geimer made her own motion to have the case undone. at the same time, there's a documentary filmmaker, the same one, who's been in court filming all year, and they have made the court crazy in los angeles. what it's done is aggravated the court. you know as a prosecutor, if you had all these people in your courtroom trying to overturn the system, people would be angry. >> no. >> i'll give you the last word really fast. >> they have been trying to get him for 20, 30 years, 12 different countries. >> thanks to both my guests. up next, the divine ms. m. )d this lady made tv history and won an emmy as johnny carson's last guest. ♪ >> one of the great moments in television and now she's my first guest. here's hoping the magic continues, bette midler, thank you, honey, for coming on my show. it sort of tears us up when we see that, doesn't it? >> for you. for me i'm all smiles. once in a while i get misty eyed. he's a wonderful guy. he did so much for me, he did so much for so many people that i know. >> not me, i never got on his show. >> too bad. >> i'm sorry he's dead and everything. >> but here you have a show of your own, congratulations. >> yeah, let's not talk about him. >> he was a great guy, you're going to have a great run. >> i hope so, i'm glad that you are my first guest and you were his last. one more question about him, do you think he really wanted to ever leave? does anyone ever want to leave? >> i think some people want to and some people don't. i think there's some people who work in television today who will have to be carried out feet first. >> no names. no names. >> and there are others who just have had enough. and it's hard work. if you're a certain kind of person, a curious person, it's like gee, i've been doing this for a long time and every day is pretty much the same. those kinds of people usually say, you know, i have had enough. >> what would you do if you were not in vegas? >> i wasn't talk about me, i am not retired and you can't make me. >> you'll never retire? >> if i were going to retire, i wouldn't announce it, i would just back up into the wings and walk away. why would you say you're going to retire? what if you announce it, and then if you change your mind. >> yeah, like chchlt cher, she always has a comeback tour. >> let's talk politics for a minute. i know that you stumped for obama. was that the first time you stumped for a president? >> i stumped for all the democrats since the late '70s. >> they have been calling him a lot of bad names from a fascist to a socialist, which are the opposite. what do you think? >> i think it's a new low in the political discourse, and it's very distressing. i think people of goodwill are very distressed by it because it's so ugly and it's so wacky. >> what should people of good should do? >> i think people of goodwill should talk rationally and politely in a civil tone and people should be willing to listen to the other side and the people that you're speaking to should be willing to listen to your side. that seems to be gone. >> well, we're trying to do that. but someone like glenn beck has made gazillions of dollars for being out there and being hateful in many ways. he calls himself a clown and a comedian. do you think he is funny? >> i don't think he is funny even a little bit. i find him terrifying. he's like an old school demagogue and it's really frightening. if you look around at the rest of the world and what this kind of behavior has done, like in rwanda, where as a demagogues got on the radio and fermented all that hate between the two, it's horrifying. i'm not for censorship. but i also feel like, be a human being. >> but you can't stop people from freedom of speech because they have the right to say it. it's the first amendment. >> i think that people who are educated to be civil are civil. that's all there is to it. people who are not educated in any way, who are just a little on the barbaric side. what can you do? but that's the fault of the education system, i think, and the way they were brought up. >> speaking of that, what do you think of sarah palin? >> i think she's a really interesting character on the american scene. >> do you identify her? >> i do not identify with sarah palin. according to levi johnson, she's never picked up a fishing rod or cooked. >> do you believe him? >> you know what. that article is so fascinating because it, the sound of it, the voice in the article was seen as so legitimate, that i thought it could go either way. >> so you believe him over her? >> it's interesting. >> was very interesting -- >> those people laughing are alcoholics anonymous, they are here. go ahead. >> i don't know many journalists. i don't know how they do what they do. i don't know how they manage to elicit all that information from someone like levi johnson. >> you don't know if he's telling the truth in "vanity fair." there is no way to know ever. >> it's gotten to that point where you've those father figures, walter chroncrite, he's telling it like it is. where is walter? >> he died a few weeks ago. >> i know that. but that's what i mean. >> you have mentioned two dead people in this one conversation to far. >> and we could go on. this was a very bad year. and i am dying right now. >> no, you are not. you and i are constantly being -- they think i am you and you are me. >> separated at birth. let's just look at the camera together for a second. there's a picture. look, do we look alike? >> i have a look on my face like buy are you pointing that camera at me, and you're like, hey, here i am? >> no, i'm pointing at something behind me. >> in this right here, we have had photographs taken before where we look very, very much alike, especially when i had red hair. but i have not had red hair for 30 years, so there you go. >> i went on a cruise when i was on "the view." i walked around the boat and i did a show. and i heard someone say, how could they afford bette midler? >> i was on a holiday not too long ago. i was in paris, not so long ago. >> did you see roman pollansky? >> i did not see him. i was looking for the loo. and a lady turned to me and said you look like bette midler. and i turned to her and said i bet you wish you had her money. >> i love your work, i saw you in vegas, i saw you in theaters in new york, in the old days, when you were first starting with barry manillo, all those great years, and i have all of your albums. i am gushing now over you. but you are not really blue. >> i do, i work blue. >> i would say you are body. >> what does blue mean? >> you are swearing, and you might drop the f-bomb sometimes, and you can do that in a concert. >> i do, i work blue. >> i would not say that was blew. >> you have to tell the audience at home what blue means. >> they love it. >> my husband says they pay to hear you swear. and i was almost like offended, but now i think he's right. over the weekend iran fired two missiles after the united states, france and england told them not to. now, which part of no doesn't mahmoud ahmadinejad understand? it's one thing to tick off the u.s., england and france, so we'll have less this year, so what, who cares? but you don't want to tick off israel. they already have nuclear weapons. they might use them and they're 15 minutes away from you. not to mention their prime minister, beebe netanyahu is not a which and will not be pushed around by a psychotic holocaust denier such as yourself, mahmoud. mr. ahmadinejad, don't think you're such a big shot. i never liked you anyway. you were boring when you spoke at colombia, annoying on larry king and you were tedious at the u.n. even gadhafi thinks you're a hack. the world is watching you and they don't believe a word that comes out of your mouth. as my mother used to say -- [ speaking foreign language ] which i'm pretty sure translates to "never trust a short man with a long-range missile." that's just me. ♪ >> that was the divine bette midler performing at cesar's palace in las vegas. she's back here for dates in october and november. >> yes. >> very exciting. what are you going to do? >> two weeks in october and take a week off and do my halloween party. >> the hulaween. >> a hawaiian halloween. then i'm going to go back for two weeks in november. >> tell the audience who the party is for. >> it's for my organization. i founded it 14 years ago, new york restoration project. we clean parks in underserved neighborhoods. we are the owners and designers and care takers after 55 community guarders. we teach children's environmental education. >> very good. >> we teach rowing programs. we teach, teach, teach. >> you're very good. do you have ocd or something? >> i think i do. >> ha do you have that causes you to want to clean up new york? >> i think it's a compulsion. i really do. i was brought up in the most beautiful spot in the whole world. >> hawaii. >> hawaii. when i came to the continent of the united states, continent of north america, i said, why are the clouds brown? why -- >> that was california, right? >> that was california. why is there garbage on the street? i didn't understand that. it really disturbed me. that was my mission. i got on that path and never left. i never i would be still picking up garbage so many years after i stopped dating it. >> that's a good line. >> thank you. >> okay. so, vegas, how do you like vegas? >> i like it. i like it a lot. i've actually gotten to know the town a little bit. i have friends there. i have relationships. >> you have friends there of normal people? >> normal people. there a lot of normal people there. i learned poker. i can't play blackjack but i can play poker. i have my thing i carry with me all the time so i can memorize. >> how does your husband like it there? >> he doesn't mind it. >> he's a performer, too? >> he is a performer. >> i saw him at your birthday party. he did a performance arts thing. >> he's extremely charging and he's brilliant. just brilliant. >> so you're going to keep him? >> well, 25 years. >> yeah. >> yeah. so he loves all this. he's seen the show 40 or 50 times and cries and laughs every single time. >> oh my god. >> he's crazy. >> he's a keeper. >> he is really crazy. >> he is really nuts. you should keep him, though. >> i got him. >> okay. bette. i'm happy you came to see me. >> is that it? >> we are done. this was my first show. i had a wonderful night with all my friends here tonight. >> hulaween is on october 30th this year at the waldorf historia. be there or be square. crosby is going to be entertaining. i'll probably serve chicken pot pie. >> you usually sing. >> i always sing. we're honoring the mayor. >> mayor bloomberg. >> yes. >> my special guest, bette midler and my panel for joining me tonight. i'll be back right here tomorrow. good night, everybody. got through day one! breaking news tonight in the search for a 2-year-old florida girl. six months of searching culminate when skeletal remains found in the heavily wooded area 15 houses from the anthony home confirmed to be little caylee. a utility meter reader stumbles on a tiny human skeleton, including a skull covered in light-colored hair. the killer duct taping and placing a heart-shaped sticker directly over the mouth and then triple-bagging little caylee like she's trash. bombshell tonight. as we go to air, wading through over 1,000 police documents released in just the last hours, we confirm high-tech fbi testing reveals the outline, a stain. it's the silhouette of a little child. a child curled up in the fetal position, discovered in tot mom's car trunk. air samples already confirm human decomposition in that trunk. but now a virtual picture. a picture of little caylee dead in her own mother's car. and tonight another bombshell. duct tape wrapped around caylee's skull matching duct tape in the anthony home, determined to be extremely rare. torpedo to the prosecution. was all the testing on the duct tape, the tape wrapped around caylee's skull, ruined at the fbi lab? we learn a female lab tech's dna ends up on that tape, the tape on caylee's skull. we also discovered the defense so-called wish list. a list of people the defense p.i. was to investigate as potential scapegoats, someone else to point the finger at in court. hundreds of e-mails surfacing between grandmother cindy and the anthonys' private eye, secretly compiling charts to dig up dirt on key people connected to the case. and in a stunning twist, months after caylee's memorial, grandmother cindy still wants the p.i.s to search for a living caylee, insisting this photo of a little girl being investigated as a possible caylee sighting in puerto rico. and tonight a key witness emerges. possibly the last person to see caylee alive outside the family, placing her at a local walmart with tot mom casey anthony. >> it smells like there's been a dead body in the damn car. i need to find her. i don't know what your involvement is, sweetheart. you're not telling me where she's at. >> because i don't [ bleep ] know where she's at. are you kidding me? >> there was a bag of pizza for, what, 12 days in the back of the car full of maggots. it stunk so bad. my husband's a deputy sheriff years ago and the first thing e thought was human decomposition. i'm a nurse. i thought human decomposition. maybe somebody put a body in the car afafter it was towed to the tow yard. she is not a murderer. there is no evidence that casey ever did any harm to her child. >> i as a mom, i know in my gut there's a feeling as a parent, you know certain things about your child. you can feel that connection. and i still have that feeling, that presence. i know she's alive. >> i got within three feet of my daughter's car and the worst odor that she could possibly smell in this world. and i've smelled that odor before. it smelled like a decomposed body. and tonight police on high alert for two little sisters, just 12 and 11 years old. the 12-year-old nearly months pregnant. the little girls allegedly taken on the run by their stepfather. why? north carolina police are still looking for a 12-year-old girl who is nearly nine months pregnant. she is due. she disappeared from her morrisville home along with her younger sister and adoptive dad. >> matthew hess left his estranged wife a note saying he was taking keara to lakeshore middle. she became suspicious when keara didn't make it to her doctor's appointment. >> i'm told 12-year-old keara intended to keep the baby. she may have already delivered. investigators say inside this home where she lived with her father there are plenty of baby supplies and equipment. >> police are worried that 12-year-old keara, due to deliver a baby any day now, isn't getting the medical attention she needs. >> please just drop them off. i just want the girls. okay? >> time may be running out for keara's baby. good evening. i'm nancy grace. i want to thank you for being with us. as we go to air, wading through over 1,000 police documents released in just last hours, we confirm high-tech fbi testing reveals the outline, a stain, it's the silhouette of a little child. a child curled up in the fetal position. discovered in her own mother, tot mom's trunk. >> if you say "her remains," sir, one more time, i'm walking out. how dare you say that about my granddaughter? how dare you? how dare you? >> they have all of their information from me. yet at the same time they're twisting stuff. they've already said they're going to pin this on me if they don't find caylee. >> i believe there's something that day. i smelled in my own gut. there was an overpowering smell. >> there was no odor in the car when it was towed down to the towing company. no odor. >> maybe my daughter ran over something. >> air samples don't mean anything. >> if we continue to look at evidence that hasn't been verified, you guys are going to put caylee in a coffin because eventually something's going to happen to her if we don't find her. >> they find hair samples in the back of the care similar to the length and color of caylee. >> person in the back of my granddaughter's car is not my granddaughter! >> that's an odor you never forget. >> there's something wrong. i found my daughter's car today and it smells like there's been a dead body in the damn car. >> the stain that was in the trunk of my daughter's car, i opened up the trunk. we had the windows rolled down, the sunroof open. instantaneously that gets in your house, just like that. >> straight out to kathi belich joining us from wftv there in orlando. kathi, what can you tell me about the results of these high-tech fbi tests? >> well, if you're referring to one of the fbi investigators notice then another agreed the mysterious stain that was in the trunk of casey's car actually took on the shape of a child in the fetal position and they said they could actually distinguish the back area from the bottom area from the leg area. and they did further testing on that. they were trying to get that video enhanced so that you could print it up and see it rather than just look at it on a computer screen. >> to ellie jostad, our producer on the story, joining us from l.a. tonight. ellie, what can you tell me? >> well, nancy, we also found out more about the hair that was found in the trunk. one of the fbi investigators writing that this hair is consistent with a dead body. she also says that it matches hair on a hair brush they knew was used to comb caylee's hair. she also points out that the hair does not match casey anthony. now -- >> stop right there, ellie. hold on. so the hair found in the trunk we know is from a dead body because the hair -- see if you can pull up that shot we have depicting a death ring on a hair? a dark-color ring comes -- appears on a hair near the follicle, near the root, postmortem. so this hair had that death ring on it. we can also tell from either nuclear or mitochondrial dna that it belonged to either tot mom casey anthony or her daughter, caylee. then it was ruled out. tot mom's ruled out because the hair wasn't treated with dye or bleach. this only leaves little caylee. now what are you telling me about the hair? >> well, nancy, now we're saying that this is a less sophisticated test. it's not dna. it's a microscopic test that indicates the hair matches the hair on the hair brush and it does not match samples of casey anthony's hair. >> so bottom line, this is the baby's hair. this is caylee's hair. i want to go back to the silhouette. the silhouette found on the trunk -- tot mom's trunk lining. what can you tell me about that? i mean, i already know that the hair belongs to caylee. i already know that. >> well, nancy, there is e-mails in between, going back and forth between fbi colleagues. one of them says a very interesting photo exists which you have, there's a large stain. if you look closely at this photo, there appears to be an outline or a silhouette of a child in the fetal position. now, this fbi investigator asking a colleague what can they do? can they enhance the photo? can they send the trunk liner to the body farm for further testing? can they figure out what made that stain? >> we are taking your calls live to beverly in new york. hi, beverly. >> caller: hi, nancy. i'm sorry, but you already answered my question. i wanted to know if the hair had ever been positively identified. >> well, let's just run back through that. nikki pierce, wdbo radio, nikki, i know they did either nuclear, which is from the root of the hair, or mite chondral tna testing on the hair. now, am i correct? was it determined it was either caylee's or casey's? >> it was determined that it was either casey's or caylee's. but we can see now from these new documents that in appearance it does not match casey's. it looks like it came from the hair brush that cindy had given them, grandmother cindy had given them earlier when fbi investigators requested a brush and she said casey and caylee used that brush together. and that piece of hair does not match casey's. >> unleash the lawyers. susan moss, new york. bill sheaffer, orlando. raymond giudice, atlanta. daniel horowitz, famed attorney out of san francisco. ray giudice, this is a virtual snapshot of little caylee lying there dead or dying in the fetal position in tot mom's car trunk. what more does a jury need, ray? give it your best shot, friend. >> i'll read to you the second e-mail your reporter left out from the fbi that says we cannot draw any conclusions as to what caused this image. it is too speculative. when the prosecution's fbi expert on the stand is saying too speculative, that's a defense lawyer's dream. >> okay. to sue moss. you know, i don't think a jury when they see what the fbi has, when you look at a silhouette, i don't need an fbi lab tech to tell me what i'm seeing. if i see a silhouette of a child in a fetal position and that silhouette is found in the trunk of the mother's car, do you even have to make a closing argument? >> absolutely. this stain can explain who is to blame. don't look at this piece of evidence, alone. look at it in total with all the other evidence. the smell of death in the car, the fact that that hair was found in the car, which is a hair of death, which shows that somebody who had that hair had died. when you look at this in its entirety, that's when you see how powerful it really is. >> there was no odor in the car when it was towed down to the towing company. no odor. i thought rotten whatever it was. something decomposing in there. maybe someone put a body in the car after it was towed to the tow yard. air samples don't mean anything. they are saying that. they're saying in the trunk of the car. there was a bag of pizza for, what, 12 days in the back of the car full of maggots. it stunk so bad. you know how hot it has been. that smell was terrible. >> tracy sargent here with her detection dog cinco. both from homeland security. tracy, do cadaver dogs actually alert on food ever? >> no, ma'am, they do not. that's one of the training things we do with these dogs, that any distraction we might find out there, they are trained off of that. they are only to alert to human remains scent. >> there's something wrong. i found my daughter's car today and it smells like there's been a dead body in the damn car. >> the crime scene investigators are working on the car, trying to determine where the smell is coming from. they also found a stain inside the trunk of the car that came up under black light that's questionable and we need to process. >> it started around that time when two dead squirrels crawled up under the hood of the car, you know, and they died in there. >> 911. what's your emergency? >> i called a little bit ago. the deputy sheriff. i found out my granddaughter has been taken. she has been missing for a month. her mother finally admitted that she's been missing. >> okay. what is the address that you're calling from? >> we're talking about a 3-year-old little girl. my daughter finally admitted that the babysitter stole her. >> straight out to the calls, everyone. in case you are just joining us, tonight we learned technicians at the fbi lab have identified a silhouette. it's a stain. it is a silhouette of a child's tiny body curled up in the fetal position in tot mom's trunk. a virtual picture of little caylee as she lay dying. unleash the lawyers. susan moss, bill sheaffer, raymond giudice, daniel horowitz. bill sheaffer, you're there on the scene joining us from orlando. what do you make of it? >> it's very damning. it's another strong piece of circumstantial evidence. the problem with the defense is that every time they pop one of these chains there seems to be another piece of evidence to take its place and reinforce it. and this evidence is consistent with what was found in the trunk, indicating that this is where little caylee's body was. and the other thing is her body in that car, alive or dead, in the trunk, that is significant. that child should not have been in the trunk in any respect. >> daniel horowitz, you've tried so many murder cases as a defense attorney. give me your best shot to defend against this. >> i don't think the forensic evidence is that strong. if the jury already believes she's guilty, then they'll give a lot of credence to it. but really it's an ink blot test. one person's curled-up body in a fetal position could be another person's pizza that just rotted in the trunk. the science of the hair and the ring of death is very dramatic, but there's not very much background or backup for it. so bottom line is this is dramatic evidence but it's not really persuasive evidence all by itself. >> good stab at it, horowitz. i thought that either you or giudice would try to compare it to those magic eye photos where you have to squint your eyes to really see the picture. but apparently, people at the fbi can very clearly make out the silhouette of a child in the fetal position. celia in alabama. hi, celia. >> caller: hi. how are you doing tonight? >> i'm good, dear. what's your question? >> caller: why is it the courts won't require the rest of the family members to undergo a polygraph test, if for no other reason but for credibility in court? >> i'll tell you in a nutshell, you cannot force anyone to undergo a polygraph test, especially if it goes against their self-interests. in this case also -- well, in every case, celia in alabama, polygraphs are not admissible in court unless both parties, defense and state, agree up front before trial that regardless of the outcome it's going to come into evidence. and believe me, both sides in this case are not going to agree on anything. to brenda in west virginia. hi, brenda. >> caller: yeah. >> hi, dear. what's your question? >> caller: hi, nancy. yeah, i have one quick question and one quick comment. can you tell me if this precious little baby has been either cremated or buried yet? and -- >> okay. what do we know about that, kathi belich, wftv? >> from what i remember, the family had caylee's body cremated and it is somewhere that they are not divulging. >> it was an overpowering smell. i'll admit that. at first glance you thought this may be the smell of a body or decomposition? >> possibility, yeah. i mean, maybe my daughter ran over something. when i arrived, go through the garage door like i typically do -- i just went oh, [ bleep ]. like i just -- i couldn't even describe it. i'm just worried that the police are not following up caylee as a missing person and they're trying to build a case against my sister, like, for a homicide. >> who took her? and then casey goes, the nanny did. she was kidnapped. i believe everything that my sister tells me. >> straight out to kathi belich, joining us from wftv. regarding this stain, i understand that the anthony family's response is it is an old stain, that the car had gone through a lot of people. >> i don't know a whole lot about that. i do know that their attorney, brad conway, plans to make some sort of a public statement tomorrow in reaction to all of this. we did ask him to speak today, but i guess he hadn't seen all the discovery. >> ellie jostad, what do you know? and also, what can you tell me about the fbi allegedly destroying the duct tape evidence, the duct tape found wrapped around caylee's head? >> right, nancy. well, about the stain, yes, the anthony family has tried to explain this away, saying it was there before caylee ever went missing. about the duct tape, two big problems with the duct tape that we just learned about today. number one, they found some unknown female dna on that tape. they couldn't figure out who it was from. not from caylee, not from casey anthony. they eventually went and -- it looks like they tested female fbi agents, other female technicians involved in processing the tape. they were able to determine that the dna on the tape matched one of the technicians. the other problem with the tape. there was that heart-shaped residue that we've heard about on the non-adhesive side of the tape. apparently, only one technician observed that. no photo that we know of was ever taken of that heart shape. and the tape, itself, was destroyed -- or the marking on it, rather, was destroyed during the testing process. so the jury's not going to be able to see what that image looked like. >> okay. there you have the defense on a silver platter. to you, daniel horowitz. getting an fbi lab tech's dna on this crucial evidence, the tape wrapped around the child's head, is a torpedo to the state. >> it shows sloppy work, nancy. i could see innocent ways that it could happen. you probably are dissolving the things on the tape in acid -- not acid but alcohol and extracting. and dna can fall on it. but that missing heart, the evidence that may be manufactured, that's a tremendous concern. that could be fatal to the forensics in this case. can someone let me -- come on! >> that distinct odor, that's something you never forget. >> there's something wrong. they found my daughter's car today and it smells like there's been a dead body in the damn car. >> my entire life has been taken from me. everything has been taken from me. >> i believe something was placed in the back of that trunk. i don't want to believe it was my granddaughter. >> i'm going to hang up and just walk away right now. let me speak for a second. dad, i let everybody talk. >> i don't want to believe it's any other kind of -- any other thing but that pizza. that's what i want to believe. deep inside my heart i feel it's not. >> i can't even swallow right now. it hurts. >> i opened up the trunk. i was glad because my daughter or my granddaughter weren't there. i'm thankful for that. but there was a trash bag. i don't know what size gallon. it's a kitchen type trash bag. it was white in color, almost transparent. inside of it i could see a pizza box. i couldn't make out what pizza it was. but there was pizza full of maggots and all kind of stuff. and odor. it was very, very, very rong. >> straight back to nikki pierce, wdbo. nikki, what can you tell me about cindy anthony wanting investigators to investigate a recent photo of a little girl taken in puerto rico? a living caylee, she believes. >> nancy, we just learned today that cindy wrote a an e-mail in july to her attorney, brad conway, showing him a picture and saying i believe this could be a live older caylee. she was in puerto rico with somebody named zenaida. so that had been forwarded on to dominick casey perhaps for an investigation. and we received that today. it seems to lead one to conclude that cindy is still looking for a live child. >> what do you make of it, ellie jostad? >> well, nancy, there's other interesting e-mails between the family and their investigator dominic casey. aparticipately they were trying to dig up some kind of connection between richard grund, the father of jesse grund, ex-fiancee of casey, trying to connect his father to roy kronk, the guy who found the remains. also looks like the investigator was trying to find other people, persons -- he didn't call them persons of interest. i believe he called them characters of interest. other people that they were trying to investigate, do background checks on it. those were all released in the documents today. >> i want to go now to leonard padilla, bounty hunter, included in many of the anthony family private investigator notes, as you recall. he first bailed tot mom out. then came off the bail. he's joining us via skype from sacramento, california, where he is a bounty hunter. leonard, thank you for being with us. what do you make of all this? especially the silhouette in the car that looks like a child in a fetal position and this recent photo that cindy anthony is having private investigators investigate that it's a living caylee in puerto rico? >> well, if you were to believe cindy thinks that you would have to do away with all of the forensics and all of the studies that were done at the body farm and the fbi lab in quantico. as far as the stain or the indentation in the trunk of a child in the fetal position, that first came up the very first night that we met with george and cindy. they said there was a stain in the car that the cops were alluding to being something -- decomposition, but it was there when we bought the car for lee years ago. however, the -- it doesn't necessarily have to be a stain. it could be an indentation in the napping of the carpet inside the trunk of the car. and therefore, there might not be any dna. it may just be the body did an indentation like a footprint in your carpeting at home. so it doesn't have to have dna like a lot of people are speculating. >> out to the lines. melissa in california. hi, melissa. >> caller: hi, nancy. we love you. my 6-year-old loves watching along with me. >> thank you. thank you for watching. and thank you for calling in. what's your question, dear? >> caller: i wanted to know, do you think that maybe casey tried to clean up the stain by using something that contained chloroform and that's why it was found in the trunk and that would explain her web searches, to see what chloroform is used for? >> to dr. patricia saunders, clinical psychologist joining us from new york. you know, dr. saunders, you've seen it all. now, i understand melissa's thinking. but we also have in those computer searches conducted by tot mom searches for household items used as weapons, neck breaking, all sorts of sinister and nefarious-sounding google searches. >> i don't think there's any way out for casey anthony really that even if she used chloroform to clean up the body there was a body there and there's pretty much overwhelming circumstantial evidence. the whole family engages in let's call it creative reality. they see things, interpret it the way they want to. casey just flat-out lies. >> to dr. marty makary, physician and professor of public health joining us from johns hopkins. he's in washington, d.c., tonight. dr. makary, can you imagine -- i mean, you deal with children all the time. any circumstance that a child should be lying in a car trunk? >> not at all. and you know, a hair cell and a stain may sound trivial, but it is a treasure trove of forensic medical evidence. you can tell not only the color and the treatment down to the shampoo or conditioner used that day but the root describes whether or not it's been pulled, naturally fell out, or sloughed off from blood flow being cut off from someone's death. same with the stain. there's mold, fungus, and moisture that builds up without dna that can outline any body, given the pressure of a person in that position. >> explain. >> well, a person in that position is going to have an indentation simply from the pressure, and moisture will form an outline. that moisture will then be co-infected or, as we say, colonized with bacteria and fungus that will form a periphery or rim around that silhouette. and that's what investigators can look at without any dna evidence and make a pretty strong conclusion that that was a body. >> well, doctor, you have just very beautifully demonstrated why you are the m.d. and i'm just the j.d. it makes perfect sense when you say it that way. to john lucich, former criminal investigator, president of high-tech crime network, joining us from new york. john lucich, the stain, the silhouette of the child in the fetal position is not -- that we know of now. they're not telling us what the moisture is. but they're not saying it's dna. how do you think they first noticed? i mean, what tests were they conducting on it? >> well, they saw the image. i think that's what brought their -- everybody saw the stain right off, but only they saw the image. i think what they're going to have to do here, digital imaging forensics is a very complex science, but they -- >> wait a minute. wait a minute. digital what? >> digital imaging forensics. >> okay. >> they can actually take a photograph and digitize it, bring it into a computer and they can do things with computers. they can do the color balancing, they can illuminate dark areas and see clear shadows. they can refocus if the image was off, and they can actually increase the resolution. in one case that i read about they had a fingerprint against the plaid background. they were able to smooth out that plaid background just to be able to recognize the fingerprint and compare it to something and the case got solved. so digital imaging forensics is something that's been out there for a while and i think it's going to be key in solving this stain problem. >> let's go to the defense lawyers and susan moss on this. to raymond giudice, digital imaging forensics. yes, they can do it. they can also paint a portrait of the last supper on the side of that car. but that doesn't mean it's going to come into evidence. >> that's right. >> just wait. try to go down the middle of the road, giudice, all right? >> i will. >> do you believe that digital imaging forensics that lucich has just told us about would come in at trial? i think it might. >> i do not as based on what i hear now, which is i'm looking at the e-mail from the fbi that says -- >> yes/no, please? just spit it out. >> we can't tell whether this outline was caused by blood, fluids or decomposition. they can't tell. >> can you answer yes or no -- >> i did -- no, it's not coming in. >> what about it, horowitz? yes/no? >> it's not coming in. it's like michael jackson's ghost that we saw on cnn. you can see lots of things when you play with digital photography -- >> i guess that's a no from you. what about it, sheaffer? >> no. prejudicial impact outweighs the probative value. too speculative. >> susan moss, throw me a bone here. >> they will try and it might fly. i think it might come in. if they can say this is a generally accepted way of doing this type of method, i have a feeling it's going to pass both albert and the frye tests. >> there was a bag of pizza for what, 12 days in the back of the car full of maggots. it stunk so bad. you know how hot it's been. that smell was terrible. sierra and keara are believed to be in the company of their adoptive father, matthew hess. >> hess apparently left his estranged wife a short note saying he was taking one of the girls to school. police say he may have abducted them. the pregnant girl is in immediate need of medical attention. >> apparently, there were some other complications with her pregnancy. and we don't know if he realizes that. if he realizes that she needs immediate medical attention. >> investigators suspect the girls may have been taken to tennessee. >> they're going to have to surface at some point in time. they're going to need food. keara's going to go into labor. they're obviously going to need baby supplies. so i feel at this point, yes, that we're going to find them, that they're going to be hopefully okay. >> straight out to adam hicks, reporter with newstalk radio 1200 wxit. adam hicks, you've got a 12-year-old and an 11-year-old little girl, sisters. the 12-year-old is about 9 months pregnant and the stepfather, now adoptive father, takes off with both of them? >> that's right, nancy. now, keara, she's the 12-year-old who's 9 months pregnant. she was actually due to give birth to the child over the weekend. and the mother, janet, she works nightshifts. she said the last time she saw the children was about 9:00 wednesday night before she went in to work. she got off work about 4:00 that morning and she got up at 8:00 later on in the day to -- 8:00 a.m., and she found a note from her husband, matthew hess, saying that he had taken the girls to the store to pick up some supplies before school. >> some supplies. tell me, how long have they been married? nine months? >> no. the two have been married -- this is janet hess and matthew hess have been married for about ten years. and keara hess and sierra hess are both adopted. >> okay. adam hicks, give me that timeline one more time. >> jeanette hess, she works the nightshift. so she went in to work at 9:00 on wednesday night. before she went in to work she saw the two girls at home and safe. she got off work at 4:00 that morning and then she ended up waking up for thursday at 8:00 a.m. on thursday, and that's when she found the note from her husband saying that he had taken the girls to the store to pick up some supplies before school. >> okay. joining me right now, lieutenant julie gibson from the iredell county sheriff's office. lieutenant, thank you for being with us. lieutenant, do we know who the father of the baby, the 12-year-old is carrying is? >> we do not know who the father of her child is. >> had there been any tensions or arguments between the stepfather and the mother? >> no. we've talked to the mother about that quite a bit. prior to her going to work that night everything was fine. she had no indication that's there were any problems at all. >> so you've got a 12-year-old little girl that's nine months pregnant, and the parents can't get the identity of the father out of the child? >> that was investigated by another agency. they moved to our county in july of this year. so as far as that investigation, we were not involved in that. >> do you believe that would have some bearing on what's going on here? >> there's a lot of questions that we'd like to ask once we locate them. but our primary focus is just finding them, getting the recovery, making sure keara's safe. >> understood. lieutenant julie gibson joining us from north carolina. to clark goldband, our producer on the story. apparently, this 12-year-old's life is in danger. a 12-year-old little girl 9 months pregnant on the run with her stepfather and her 11-year-old little sister. go ahead, clark. >> and law enforcement is concerned, nancy, that these two may be in extreme danger because the 12-year-old girl who's pregnant has missed an important medical appointment that she was supposed to attend. also mom -- >> well, forget the medical appointment. the baby's due, clark goldband. the baby was due this past weekend. >> and the mom has also spoken out in the press saying that in fact it is so important that this procedure was to take place. mom has also said she's asked the 12-year-old girl who the dad is and she's responded that it's a, quote, young person, according to published reports. >> okay. do we have any idea? out to adam hicks, wxit. the motivation of the stepfather for taking the children away? >> no, nancy, they haven't heard any kind of motivation from any of the authorities or any of the published reports for that matter. >> everyone, the tip line, 704-878-3100. this is a case that is baffling everyone. take a look at this vehicle. a green '93 ford explorer. back right passenger window broken, covered with plexiglas and duct tape. you can't miss that. tag number "y" yellow, "t" texas, "e" 8014. please, look at this vehicle. again, tip line, 704-878-3100. to dr. marty makary, what tests could be so crucial this late in the pregnancy? >> maybe a test for diabetes. but quite honestly, the big concern here is that in a 12-year-old that pelvis is narrow, the labor is for sure going to be protracted, long, and drawn out. the person's going to be at risk for dehydration, malnutrition, bleeding and infection. so there's a high risk here. >> you know, dr. makary, you kind of glossed over the risks associated with delivering. if he is on the run with these children, it's very likely he's not going to take them to a hospital. he may have her deliver this baby in some sleazy motel room. >> all the more reason. >> and a lot can go wrong in pregnancy. i was at one of the best hospitals in the world for pregnancies and deliveries, and the three of us nearly died. >> child birth was the number one killer of women before modern obstetrical care. without good care she may very well bleed to death during the labor. >> to patricia in maryland. hi, patricia. >> caller: hi, nancy. how are you? >> i'm good, dear. what's your question? >> caller: first i want to say your book is excellent. >> well, thank you for buying "eleventh victim." >> caller: and my next question is has there ever been any at all whatsoever domestic violence in the home? >> what do we know, adam hicks? >> we have heard reports from an interview with the next-door neighbor that there is maybe a possibility of some mental abuse from the father, the stepfather of the family, but no physical abuse, no reports of that. >> mental abuse on whom, adam hicks? mental abuse on whom? >> we've heard that from the stepfather matthew hess, we have heard from the neighbor that he may have been saying some negative things about his wife, jeanette hess. from a report we have from the next door neighbor. >> talking to a neighbor about your wife -- >> no, no, talking to the children about his wife. >> oh. talking to the two stepdaughters about their mother. dr. patricia saunders, that puts everything in a whole new life. >> yeah, it does. one possible scenario is that he abducted these girls to punish the mother, to deprive her of a potential grandchild that looked like it was planned. the girls were packed up, they went. or maybe she wanted to turn the baby over to the state and he said no way, that the girl wanted to keep the baby and he was going to go with that. >> everyone, we are going to break. we are taking your calls live. but a special happy birthday to arizona friend ginger gebbert. she's fighting and winning the battle against stage 4 breast cancer. with breast cancer awareness month around the corner she wants you to know you don't have to stop living after a cancer diagnosis. her attitude and faith is an inspiration to others, especially those battling cancer. her therapy, rescuing stray dogs and spending time with her two puppies. happy birthday, ginger, and stay strong. and tonight, a special congratulations to liberty united methodist church in macon, georgia. hearing the call to serve others. they are building a beautiful playground, redesigning, painting, and kicking off their very first parents' morning out to serve their community. love in action. break a leg, liberty united methodist church, and god bless the little children coming your way. a shocker, jon fired but why? should roman polanski be fired and will sarah palin go rich byg rogue? >> joining me right now, special guest from moorsville, north carolina annette ragula, the next-door neighbor of the family. miss ragula, thank you for being with us. are you surprised the stepfather has allegedly taken off with this little girl and her little sister? >> no, i'm not surprised at all. >> why? >> there's -- he's had a relationship with those two older girls that didn't seem normal to me. he always talked negative about their mother, which i couldn't understand. she didn't deserve to -- her children being turned against her. >> in what way? what would he say about the mother? he would be saying this to the little girl? >> yes. that she wasn't any good, that -- they didn't like their mother. they talked very poorly to her. they even used profanity, cussed at her, and he would never, ever correct them. >> with me is annette regula, the next-door neighbor of this family. what is the mother's response to the children being taken, hijacked by the stepfather? >> she's very upset. she wants her girls back. she knows that the oldest one needs to have her baby. she knows she needs to have immediate medical attention -- >> with me is annette, all i know is that the two girls are missing. let's stop and remember army private first class, chad moss, 20, killed iraq. enlisted as a student, buried next to his father, who he lust. being a cop back home, leaves behind mom, janet, sister lori and renee, brother jerry. chad moss, american hero. thanks to our guest, but especially you for being with us. i'll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp eastern. until then, good night, friends. in new york, here is some of what we are covering for you tonight when we get things underway at the top of the hour. big news, jon gosselin fewered today from jon and kate plus 8. should they cancel the whole show now? also legendary director fights back. tonight, big stars speak out. plus crazy over the kardashians. kloe maries a big nba star. and how sarah palin is hoping to get rich by going rogue. the news about her new venture. that is your news break. firing up tuesday night at the top of the hour here on hln. ññ

Related Keywords

Alabama , United States , Chad , Alaska , China , California , Washington , District Of Columbia , In Court , Nord Pas De Calais , France , West Virginia , San Francisco , Liberty United Methodist Church , Arizona , Hollywood , Sacramento , Czech Republic , Switzerland , Chicago , Illinois , New York , North Carolina , Iran , Iredell County , Texas , Florida , Quantico , Maryland , Rwanda , Zurich , Züsz , Colombia , Georgia , Morrisville , United Kingdom , Puerto Rico , Iraq , Tennessee , Denmark , Israel , Ohio , Orlando , Paris , Rhôalpes , Hawaii , Americans , America , Hawaiian , British , Swiss , American , Harvey Weinstein , Johnny Carson , Tom Hanks , Carlos Diaz , Joe Biden , Brad Conway , Jon Gosselin , Susan Moss , Brad Pitt , Jon Kate , Mandy Moore , John Gosselin , Julie Gibson , Michelle Malkin , Larry King , Casey Anthony , Jeanette Hess , Nicole Richie , Streisand , Lamar Odom , Cindy Anthony , Joe Lieberman , Max Baucus , Sharon Tate , Adam Lambert , Johns Hopkins , Marty Makary , Reggie Bush , Michael Jackson , Bruce Jenner , Patricia Saunders , Las Vegas , Bette Midler , Tracy Sargent , Hillary Clinton , Devine Bette Midler , Dominick Casey , Raymond Giudice , Samantha Geimer , Kim Courtney , Mel Gibson , John Mccain , Jennifer Hudson , Janet Hess , Leonard Padilla , Michael Lohan , Dominic Casey , Tilda Swenson , Julia Roberts , Chloe Kardashian , Beebe Netanyahu , Richard Grund , Los Angeles , Jeanne Moos , Carrie Prejean , Mahmoud Ahmadinejad , Martin Scorsese , Levi Johnson , Oprah Winfrey , Liza Minnelli , Barbra Streisand , Michelle Obama , Roman Polanski , Ray Giudice , Sarah Palin , Madam Hicks , Jesse Grund , Daniel Horowitz , Matthew Hess , Glenn Beck , Jonathan Deming , Ted Kennedy ,