about a few weeks ago that would be more likely to garner bipartisan support and actually get done? >> the problem the president is facing republicans have said no to basically everything so far. i think they will agree to certain provisions, certain tax cuts in the president's plan but it's going to be like pulling teeth for the president. when i said republicans want a lousy economy on election day, i certainly didn't want to paint with too broad a brush. it's not every republican. but undoubtedly the just say no policies of the republican party do tend to lead one to believe that a lot of republicans wouldn't mind a bad economy on election day because that is almost a sure way to get rid of president obama. >> there is a danger, though, with that. if this economy, which is shaky right now, takes another turn, another clear turn down ward shall the next president of the united states, if it is not barack obama, is going to have a worse situation that they inhair ilt that they might not be able to get out as easily. >> that is true. but presidents, generally speaking, like to have a very bad economy at the beginning of their four years or their eight years, because that usually means, given the business cycle by the time their four years are up, the economy is much better. we may have a new normal. that is after the great recession, it may be unemployment is going to stay up at 9 or 10% for a very long time. that's absolutely right. it is a great danger politically but also a huge danger to the economy and to our society, because i don't think that is sustainable socially. >> all right, robert. hang on. peter is a professor at the university of maryland school of business. economists surveyed by bloomberg believe president obama's jobs plan not only reduce unemployment but keep the u.s. from sliding into a recession in 2012. first of all, do you believe that? because if you do, that would be something we should all support. >> i don't know how many jobs it will create. it certainly will create some providing states with additional money to pay for school teachers while you subtract money on the health care side, trim medicaid or medicare in some way to pay for it, doesn't help a great deal. where we really have a difference of opinion between the two parties is whether spending more will get us out or whether taming the budget deficit will get us out. the republicans were elected last time to tame the budget deficit. they see what the president is proposing is something that -- >> let me ask this. you're right. you're absolutely right. that's what they got elected on. that doesn't mean that's the answer. >> absolutely not. cutting the deficit right now would not be good medicine for the economy. if they want to move forward, though, i think they will have to look outside the government for real stimulus. the president's program may provide some. to really get the economy moving, they have to find a way to get to private sector spending. for example, opening up more oil and gas that provides the same spending construction does. >> bob, let me ask you this. most economists, smart people agree, raising taxes right now will not ideal but that taxes will have to be raised, not only on the rich but possibly on the middle class down the road. maybe stimulus is not a bad idea right now. cutting deficits and budgets are going to be a better idea down the road. why is that not a normal part of the discourse coming from moderate republicans and moderate democrats? why are we having discussions on the extremes, particularly on the republican side? >> one problem, ali, we don't have many moderate republicans. not that many moderate democrats. certainly more moderate democrats than moderate republicans. if we had a normal political dialogue right now, politicians would certainly be in sync with economists and policy analysts would say don't cut the deficit. spend more. don't impose taxes. later on impose the deficit and taxes. it's a sequencing, right now growth and jobs. >> good point. a sequencing thing. good to see you. bob reich former labor secretary, california of berkeley and author of "aftershock." peter, stay there. i want to bring diane swonk into the conversation. she is the chief economist at mesereau financial. what do you see at the biggest roadblock? we like to blame washington but there is only so much influential the government has over the economy. what's really holding us back? >> we have over a trillion reasons to stimulate on corporate balance sheets. we just validated for not using, redeploying funds they have been hoarding in august and september because of the political gridlock and political malfunction we've seen. although i don't think government is the only solution, it can certainly help on the margin one direction or the other. when your economy is only growing marginally and a crisis of confidence it can play a major role. in the larger debate, stimulus versus austerity, if we had a credible plan where we had vision going forward on what the deficit and austerity program would look like over 10 to 15 years, credible plan, knew what potholes were, businesses can do that as long as they knew where they were, changes in spending coming, so could households, that would free up in the near term some room for stimulus debate we're talking about. the rush to cut and offset any spending increase or any tax cut immediately with spending cuts immediately with spending cuts is really dysfunctional. the gridlock in washington is having a much outsized effect because the economy is so marginal. >> the work needs to be done to fix this economy outside of washington in the private sector. the idea there is a road map, there is some destination and some agreement as to how to get there is the thing that is going to help businesses make those decisions to employ people. ultimately the gridlock you're saying, diane, is a large part of the problem. peter morici. what's the logical fix to that? >> the fact of the matter is we're going to see marginal action on the president's plan. even the democrats in the senate are putting it off. my feeling is there will be a package. it won't be nearly as comprehensive as the president likes. a basic problem we have is when the republicans win, they think they should get everything their way and the democrats think they should obstruct. when the democrats win, they think they should get everything their way and republicans think they should obstruct. the reality is folks want government. americans are moderate. they want things in the middle. until politicians are willing to do this, we're going to have this seesawing in elections. that's all there is to it and we're going to be a country divided. there are real solutions getting the private sector going. we haven't had a clear vision from the white house how to do it beyond stimulus. frankly on the republican side, cutting taxes and deregulating doesn't warm me up. >> we're going to talk about solutions. diane and peter, stick around. the solution we need is unemployment. we're going to talk solutions when we come back. you're watching "your $$$$$." so here's five bucks to help you buy v8 juice. five bucks. that's a lot of green. go to v8juice.com for coupons. you can count on us. hey, jessica, jerry neumann with a policy question. jerry, how are you doing? fine, i just got a little fender bender. oh, jerry, i'm so sorry. i would love to help but remember, you dropped us last month. yeah, you know it's funny. it only took 15 minutes to sign up for that new auto insurance company but it's taken a lot longer to hear back. is your car up a pole again? [ crying ] i miss you, jessica! jerry, are you crying? no, i just, i bit my tongue. [ male announcer ] get to a better state. state farm. i promised you we'd talk solution s, let's talk solutions. tax reform, do we need tax reform for economic growth and subsequently job creation. senator pat toomey, republican member of congress, he's on the super committee and charged with reducing deficits. he thinks tax reform is the answer. listen. >> this the most pro growth thing we can do is fundamentally reform our tax code. >> peter morici, is he right? >> it's important. the corporate tax is too high in the united states. there are too many loopholes. a lower corporate rate with fewer exclusions and loopholes would be beneficial. america fundamentally is held back by a lack of demand, due to credit overhang from the housing crisis and debt people have and trade deficit and so forth. those are largely problems that need fixing in the private sector that requires public initiative to get there. i'm not hearing that from the white house. frankly i'm not hearing a lot of that from the republican candidates as well. >> diane, this is going to become a catchphrase for many, many months. we've heard it about comprehensive tax reform. as peter says american corporate taxes are high. a lot of americans believe that some companies don't pay taxes. on behalf a lot don't pay taxes, we have loopholes. corporate tax could mean different things to different people. we know the president wants to expand the payroll tax cut which he says is going to save the average american family about $1500 a year. now, from an economists perspective, how direct is the link between tax cuts like that one, or others, and job creation? >> well, the issue on the payroll tax cut is if you don't extend it, it would be a payroll tax increase for americans at a fragile time for the u.s. economy. it is one of the things that would affect demand issues. the problem with tax cuts we're not sure how many americans at the wealthiest level would save or restructure debt and spend. the demand issues peter is referring to i think are important. i do believe in fundamental tax reform. i think we need to dramatically change behavior, lower tax rates, broaden base, do changes to corporate tax rate as well. that's not the single issue, i agree on that. the biggest issue, you cannot move forward on the economy until we heal from the fundamental thing that got us here, the housing market bubble and bust. >> that's sometime away. >> it is. but there is some opportunity for changes in policy that can help accelerate our process through that that we're not doing at all. >> let's talk about this for a second. federal reserve chairman ben bernanke referred to unemployment as a national crisis this week. peter, would you say this is the time for infrastructure projects? what's the kind of stuff we should be doing if it's not fundamental tax reform to get things going? >> well, infrastructure projects are a bridge to the future. they give you a temporary boost in employment. to get us going, we need to do something about the debt people have. we have helped out the banks. we need to start to restructure these mortgages, writing down debt by perhaps making the banks partners in the house where people are underwater so they can refinance. we really do need to develop more domestic energy. it's great to develop alternative vehicles, electric vehicles and all that but they are not going to solve energy dependence right away. we have a lot of oil and gas. we're using oil and gas we need to develop that now. a trade deficit with china. the issue of regulation on wall street. we've added to the cost but i don't think we've solved the problem. there's got to be a more effective and efficient way. >> ultimately as you and diane both point out, sure, there's things holding businesses back, creating uncertainty and not permitting them to hire. the other side of that equation as you just eluded to, diane, is demand. the $1500 that president obama says the tax cut -- the payroll tax cut is going to give people, ultimately we need something that is going to cause people to say i need to pay down my household debt, get my debt situation under control and spend enough to create demand. what's that sweet spot? >> there is no -- we've been saying this for ages. if it was a silver bullet, it would have been shot. we're still working through this process. i do think peter makes an important point about changes, what we could do to move forward, correction in housing. foreclosure. we've not changed foreclosure laws yet. this is a major problem in the united states. i think they take your first child in sweden if you don't make your payment on your mortgage. that's an exaggeration, of course. the reality is we don't have the kind of recourse here. we have to change the incentive structure, heal and do it productively. i also agree regulations thrown without a lot of thought behind them, we have not consolidated regulatory agencies. there's going to be a huge surge in s.e.c. filings for hedge funds. they are not staffed for that. i hardly see anyone spending money to have s.e.c. be the hirer of last resort, increased funding from hedge funds, regulatory issues they have to deal with there. we've got a lot of things that are just mismatched in the economy. we need to think more holistically about the consequences. >> think holistically about the consequences. that's not exactly what i think about when i think about what congress is up to these days. >> congress doesn't do that. >> one of these days we'll have you two making decisions. that will help us a lot. >> diane swonk and peter morici, good to see both of you. some people think is a solution, can chris christie save the republican party and american economy? we'll check it out next. an accident doesn't have to slow you down. with better car replacement, if your car is totaled, we give you the money for a car one model year newer. liberty mutual auto insurance. [ boy ] hey, i thought these were electric? uh, it is, yeah, it's a chevy volt. so what are you doing at a gas station? well it still takes gas to go farther. but you're not getting gas. true. not this time. uh, don't have to gas up very often. so you have to go to the bathroom? no. yes you do. thought these were electric? yes, it's a uh, a chevy volt. so what are you doing at a gas station? yeah, let's check out the horses under the hood! show me the carfax. show me the carfax. horsepower, foxpower, same thing. just show me the carfax. before you buy a used car, get a carfax vehicle history report. see accidents and service reported to carfax and a price based on the car's history. ask your dealer or go to carfax.com. just say, show me the carfax. the world needs more energy. where's it going to come from? ♪ that's why right here, in australia, chevron is building one of the biggest natural gas projects in the world. enough power for a city the size of singapore for 50 years. what's it going to do to the planet? natural gas is the cleanest conventional fuel there is. we've got to be smart about this. it's a smart way to go. ♪ i tell you what i can spend. i do my best to make it work. i'm back on the road safely. and i saved you money on brakes. that's personal pricing. welcome back to "your $$$$$." chris christie running for president speculation does not seem to be dying even though the new jersey governor said several different ways he won't be running. editorial reporter with "wall street journal," stephen, what is the fascination with chris christie? he's fiscally conservative, we get that part. he made major budget cuts in new jersey. not entirely loved in his home state for making those moves. the idea he's a budget slasher, is that what's appealing to you conservatives? >> ali, it's sort of like remember when you were a teenager and you went on a date and said, not this one. another date, not this one. that's the problem with republicans. they are not enthralled with the current choices. there is a lot of fascination with other choices. the one i hereby far the most is chris christie. in addition to the things you said about him, i think he has a couple of characteristics that are appealing to conservatives. by the way, he's not as conservative as ronald reagan by any means. number one, his toughness. he's plain spoken, stood up for fiscal responsibility, something conservatives would like to see with $1.2 trillion deficit. the other issue about chris christie, i've been around politicians for 25 years, ali, i would say he's a political phenomenon, he has a special gift of communicating with people that's very much like ronald reagan or bill clinton. i think he's of that caliber and that's what republicans are looking for. >> he's unvarnished in some ways which is very appealing. in the current race those candidates unvarnished somehow say things that are a little shocking. things that are a little shocking. those that are a little too varnished don't say the things necessarily appealing. he lives in the middle ground as do a lot of people who haven't won a presidential race or committed to running. it's different when they are in. let's bring in joe. "new york times" columnist. chris christie has fiscal conservative directions, socially relatively moderate. he doesn't wear his religion on his sleeve. used to be pro-choice, flip-flopped when his wife was pregnant, for civil unions, for gay people, against gay marriage. he's got no foreign policy experience. is this economy so bad budget slashing and deficit reduction is the kind of stuff that trumps everything else? >> it may well be. we're in a process right now where the country is basically coming to the conclusion, urged on by the tea party and most conservative elements in the republican party that the thing that matters most deficit reduction, cutting government spending and reforming entitlements. whether they are right or wrong, it has become the preeminent issue with the possible exception of jobs. here you have a generally blunt spoken governor who has done that in his home state without fear or favor. the fight as always in a presidential election is for the independents. independents turned against obama largely. they are looking for a candidate. they are not going to find rick perry appealing, certainly not michele bachmann. they could well find chris christie appealing. >> moreso than romney? >> well, romney is the default candidate. they are looking for somebody else to fall in love with. romney has been a while. people don't feel like they are going to fall in love with him. they are going to grudgingly accept him as their nominee, if it comes to that. but in the meantime -- >> they are worried about chris christie being in the race, should they be worried and start to appeal to moderate independents who barack obama used to appeal to? >> yeah, look, i think one of the things that's interesting about chris christie, in addition to the things joe was saying, if you listen to the speech he gave this week at the reagan library, he talked about solving problems, you know. he said, look, we solved problems in new jersey that haven't been solved in washington. that's a practical message. not a conservative message, practical message. don't forget one other quick thing about him. he represents a blue state. if republicans can win in a place like new jersey, they can win anywhere. >> he did bring that point up, joe. he said in new jersey we have made divided government work, because so many americans think the whole concept of divided government is one that can't work. what we used to think of as fantastic about checks and balances seems to be coming back and biting us in the ankles. >> americans right now find the idea of a pragmatist appealing because that is not what's happening in washington today. the question whether chris christie could go to washington and be a pragmatist just as obama thought he could go to washington and bridge the partisan gap certainly remains to be seen. running a state, creating consensus in a state, in a state where every state by law has to balance their budget, a very different ball game. by the way, i think chris christie is doing the right thing kind of staying away from this and saying -- i know he made speeches lately that made him appear more presidential. the fact of the matter he hasn't been governor very long. there is a question, in my mind at least, whether he's jumping in before he's really ready for prime time. >> let me ask you this, stephen, because "the wall street journal," you guys had an editorial where you put together a good endorsement of a particular plan by jon huntsman, economic and energy plan by jon huntsman. sadly that didn't move the needle. the folks you're influencing aren't the people who vote in primaries for the republican party unfortunately. that is to say people who come forward with good solid economic plans, relatively moderate, as jon huntsman, almost all of his policies are, are not catching fire in the republican party. >> yeah, but the guy who is catching fire this week is herman cain. he has quite an ambitious plan out there right now. my reading of the electorate, joe is right. people want problem solvers. i agree with that. i think the american people think these problems we're facing as a country are bigger than the politicians do. they see these as supersized problems that need supersized solutions. that's one of the things whether you like what herman cain is saying about this 999 plan or not, it is a bold and radical plan and he's rising in the polls. >> i thought you were going to say stephen need supersized people, which is, of course, what chris christie alludes to now and again. >> he does face up to it. he talks about his struggles with his weight a fair amount. he's making so much sense to people, they look right by it. >> you guys have put it really well. the fact chris christie reflects so much of what so many of us are in america might actually be some of his appeal. who is actually to blame for everything going wrong in washington and with our economy right now? our two guests are back right after this. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle...and go. you can even take a full-size or above, and still pay the mid-size price. i'm getting an upgrade. [ male announcer ] as you wish, business pro. as you wish. go national. go like a pro. now through january earn a free day with every two rentals. find out more at nationalcar.com. even though i'm a great driver and he's... not so much. well, for a driver like you, i would recommend our new snapshot discount. this little baby keeps track of your great driving habits, so you can save money. amazing! it's like an extra bonus savings. hah-hah! he's my ride home. how much can a snapshot discount save you? call or click today. americans criticizes the government for being broken. at the same time american people are pretty divided on what they want from washington and what they think is best for the country. stephen moore still with me. how much weight do you give this whole notion that the divided congress is a reflection of a divided nation. in other words, when we are mad at washington, should we be mad at ourselves? >> no question the congress does reflect a big divide in the country in terms of where to take it. you see it in the polls. the democratic party has moved to the left. i don't think there's any question under obama. the republican party is more of a conservative party than it's been at least since the 1980s. that does reflect divisions among the public about what to do about this country. it's interesting, normally when you have divided government in washington, usually the economy does very well. the economy usually likes divided government. >> checks and balances that brings things toward the middle which is where most people live. in this case we have gridlock that pushes us to the edges. >> right. the deals aren't getting done. there's no progress. what you've got is paralysis now not deals. >> it's not even paralysis i think. i think it's worse than that. i think the debt crisis, so utterly avoidable had a destabilizing effect on the economy, on the way other countries thought about our own stability and it caused s&p to lower debt rating. >> strangely an unexpectedly, it lowered our borrowing costs in the united states. i will ask you this, joe, what is it that we're supposed to do? you almost said it under your breath a little earlier ago. you said this whole discussion about the debt made the debt and deficit and budgets the most important in this country, most important issue save perhaps for jobs. jobs still should be the most important issue? >> they certainly should be. certainly if you're president obama and going into election with 9% unemployment, you've got a big, big, big problem will putting politics aside, people need jobs. people want jobs. i look at our discussions about the debt and deficit. i know stephen is going to disagree with me here. i think about 1930, 1931 when that's all herbert hoover talked about. meanwhile the economy just collapsed. do we need to do something about entitlements, yes. do we need to get the debt under control. yes. do we need to be free spending in sanely, no. the notion we should tighten the vise on government right now when we're in trouble doesn't agree with me. >> number one, president obama hasn't really put anything on the table as a conservative that i believe would actually create jobs. that's why there's gridlock. >> let me bring in roland. roland martin, cnn contributor. we feel bad, my friend. an aggie got into the national presidential race, got the national stage for about 72 hours, started to flame out. now, we're all talking about chris christie. are democrats worried about chris christie and should they be worried about chris christie attracting, as joe said, the very independents that barack obama used to be very attractive to? >> this is very simple for any republican watching. stop wasting your time with somebody who is not in the race. the problem with this conversation from day one it has been -- first it was will newt run. he gets in. then it said, will pawlenty run. he gets in. will palin run? will trump run? will christie run? i swear, literally, if they could somehow go into a shop and create a ronald reagan, they would try to create a ronald reagan robot. it's a ridiculous conversation. you don't have a discussion until somebody is in the race. here is the deal. perry on paper looked great, wonderful. when you go into a debate, it's a whole different deal. i remind people also, you can be all concerned right now. the reality is this, at this juncture in 2007, obama was down 31 points to senator hillary clinton. 31 points to hillary clinton. things change over a period of years. bill clinton in iowa, he was dead on arrival in new hampshire. what happened? he rebounds. republicans need to stop trying to find a perfect candidate and say let me deal with who we have. if christie gets in, great. but he's not in. so suck it up and deal with who is in front of you. >> i will tell you this. i will tell you this. what i like from what i hear from chris christie, unlike so many people who are in the race, who are just about being mad and blaming in extreme situations, christie says he wants to come in, he's been in a place where there's divided government and can somehow get through this. what is the solution? >> he can say that right now. >> you don't want to say anything nice while your aggie friend rick perry is in the race. >> easy to say that when you're not in the race. >> oh, yeah, i'll come in and do this and do that. >> you're not in the race either and i want to know what you think is going to help this economy get further, because we're in a mess. >> i recall president george w. bush coming in in 2000 saying i want to end partisanship in washington, d.c. what happened? i heard president obama, then senator obama, say in 2008, i want to come into washington, d.c. no politician, democrat or republican, they have to be able to confront the problem that you have few moderate republicans and you have a decreasing number of conservative democrats. as long as you have people who are on the extremes, you cannot bring folks together. we still are a split nation. that's the fundamental problem that we have. >> that's exactly where this conversation started, joe. we are. so how do we, who vote for these governments that are divided, how do we expect a solution? what is that solution likely to look like because we've got about 14 months to solve this? >> we're not going to solve it in 14 months. the actual solution is prosperity. if we had a growing economy and people felt like they had job prospects there would not be a tea party. >> let's get there. the actual solution is prosperity. prosperity comes to most people in three different ways. there are two extra ways, you can marry rich or rob a bank. but to most people it means the value of your stocks or investments going up, the value of your home going up or the value of your wage increasing. joe, none of those are consistently happening. >> that's correct. i think the failure of obama to get its arms around a reasonable sense i believe housing policy, to help restart the housing economy is the single, most negligent thing the administration has done. >> they tried, joe, a lot of housing -- no, no. >> they tried a lot of small bore solutions. in terms of figuring out what do we do about fannie and freddie, how do we restart the housing mark kit? how do we keep housing from continuing to drop? >> interest rates if you're trying to buy a house and have good credit, what more can they do. >> ali, here is where the fundamental problem was. have you to go and say, look, we bailed your butt out. you have fattened up your bottom lines. it is time to restructure these loans that were absolutely crazy. you can't just keep sitting here saying, oh, we're going to hold on to the assets until things get better. if you don't force the bank's hands you have no shot at doing it. joe is absolutely right. they failed to do so. the current foreclosure program of the obama -- >> i'm looking at stephen moore. he looks very sad right now. this is not a guy who is going to want further intervention into what happened. robert reich was on the show before you guys, said the same thing joe is alluding to, same thing roland is alluding to, that is at some point, stephen, we have to deal with existing mortgages, underwater mortgages, better mortgages and help people out from the situation they are in. >> i think, ali, housing foreclosures is more a symptom of a bad economy than the cause of the bad economy. look, when people get back on jobs they can pay. you'll see a big drop and houses rise. something we write about at the journal, $2 trillion businesses are sitting on, ali. they want some incentive to invest. they want this anti-business atmosphere in washington to go away. >> it's going to come from demand, come from people with jobs saying i'm going to spend something. joe. >> i thought cross fire was not on the air anymore. >> those were the good old days. >> where do you get growth? where do you get growth? government can work on the margins, a huge amount of capital on the sidelines. i don't think it's because of anti-business sentiment or anti-business climate, i think it's because there's not enough demand. it's such a chicken and egg thing. i think the government should be doing everything it can on the margins to help create jobs. i also think the organic economy itself has to start to revive on its own. there's only so much government can do. we can't expect government to come in and fix everything. it would help if the government could create programs that made people feel like there's hope. >> stay tuned. we have to take a break but cross fire will be right back. ♪ whoa, watch out, little man. ♪ [ male announcer ] when you take away the worry, it's easy to enjoy the ride. hey, bud. hey, dad. [ male announcer ] introducing cadillac shield. the most comprehensive suite of owner benefits offered by any luxury auto maker in the world. backed by the superguarantee®? find a business only& suonline.s®. on your phone. or in the book. go to superpages®. and let the good guys save the day. welcome back to "your $$$$$." chrystia freeland with digital editor and joe with us. let's talk about markets. to say the market has been volatile would be an understatement. one day up 300 points, the next day down 200 points. wild swings. to understand the markets these days, i don't know whether we need an analyst or a shrink. >> and do we need to be in new york or london or berlin. i think part of what's going on is we understand the world economy is very interconnected. there are lots of big things happening outside the united states. i think the big driver of the latest volatility has been europe. people have realized what's happening in europe has the potential to be another lehman. they have also realized there is the possibility of a political solution. i think the markets are following that very closely. what you're having is people thinking, okay, europeans have it figured out. oh, no, they don't have it figured out. >> that's right. european markets, operations markets up on the hopes there might be a looming solution to the european budget crisis, next day markets down, why, because we're wondering what's going on in europe. make some sense of this for us. >> no question the potential for contagion is there. not just in europe for europe but to jump the atlantic. no question. it happened in the 1930s, austrian bank folds in 1931 domino effect causes problems in the united states. >> we were less connected then than today. >> if greece is lehman and the ongoing bailout is their version of a.i.g., which was a back door bailout of many banks, the prospect of a lehmanlike failure is very, very scary. volatility like this even on an up day is bad. it's bad psychologically for investors. it signals a kind of unsureness and instability by market participants. it's just very unhealthy. >> they should be unsure. it's not just about, you know, if they all did a lot of yoga. if all traders did yoga, everything would be okay. there is a lot of uncertainty in terms of what's going to happen to europe. what i would add to what joe was saying, it's not whether european banks survive this crisis, it's more existential, it's about whether the euro will survive this crisis. people need to focus on the fact that the collapse of one of the world's three major currencies, that be would a very big deal. >> people working, unemployment high, over 9%. housing market as we discussed in this show continues to be troublesome. very little growth in the economy. a little more than we thought there was but still slow. the cost of employer-sponsored health insurance went up 9% for families according to the kaiser family foundation. joe, let's talk about this. this is a major, major problem in a time of slow growth, slow economic growth where we've got all sorts of challenges for middle class families and private health insurance you continues to get more expensive every year. >> because health care gets more expensive every year. as a country we realize in intellectually, that we need to hold down health care costs but individually nobody wants to hold down their own health care costs. why would they? >> the only reason i'm going to stop you there, when you say why would they? i think there is a fundamental intellectual mistake that americans make about health care. they have this view that more health care is like more shoes. so i personally think i can't have too many pairs of beautiful shoes. if i could afford an infinite number, that would be great. you can have too much health care. this is what i think is so perverse about america today. health care is wrecking family budgets, it is wrecking company budgets. the outcome is not that great. it's worse than countries that spend less on health care partly because americans are overtreated. >> there is another part of this. >> don't you agree with that? >> i do agree with that. we don't know how to solve that because nobody is willing to step out and say this treatment we don't need. this treatment we don't need. in fact, it's just the opposite. there's so much pressure on the fda to allow 80, $100,000 drugs that extend life for six weeks. these are all drivers. the other way to think about this, the government understands they need to do something about medicare. there's a big move to get that entitlement under control. what is driving the rise in the cost of medicare? it's not the government per se, it's the fact that health care costs are rising uncontrollably. but nobody in the government is saying let's fix the health care problem, they are saying let's fix the medicare problem, which will not fix the ultimate problem. >> part of what you need in america is a fundamental national cultural rethinking of your attitude towards medical care. it needs to be more focused on prevention. >> in theory we were going to have in 2009. in theory, the whole discussion about health care, all of these discussions about health care, it didn't end up being that. it ended up being very polarized. >> very technical and not fundamental. no one has said to americans, you know what -- and to american doctors. you know what, doing every single test you're capable of doing, that's not the best way to have the healthiest people. >> well, doctors do that also because they are afraid of being sued. >> and because they like to get paid more. >> we solved that one for you. >> chrystia freeland and joe, always good to talk to you. thank so much. a clue as to what could drive growth in the u.s. coming up next. marjorie, you've had a policy with us for three years. it's been five years. five years. well, progressive gives megan discounts that you guys didn't. paperless, safe driver, and i get great service. meredith, what's shakin', bacon? they'll figure it out. getting you the discounts you deserve. now, that's progressive. call or click today. ♪ ♪ ♪ when your chain of supply ♪ goes from here to shanghai, that's logistics. ♪ ♪ chips from here, boards from there ♪ ♪ track it all through the air, that's logistics. ♪ ♪ clearing customs like that ♪ hurry up no time flat that's logistics. ♪ ♪ all new technology ups brings to me, ♪ ♪ that's logistics. ♪ welcome. kristin. kasey. come on in. kasey, kasey! kasey, what about the new edge drew you to it? the look of it. i love the sleek design. i like the rounded edges. what does the technology in your edge make you think of ford? it just makes me think that ford is in it to win it. ford is trying to get to the next level. you really have to make yourself stand out, and i think ford has done that. looking over there, how does your car look? is this my car? (laugh) (laugh) two of the most important are energy security and economic growth. north america actually has one of the largest oil reserves in the world. a large part of that is oil sands. this resource has the ability to create hundreds of thousands of jobs. at our kearl project in canada, we'll be able to produce these oil sands with the same emissions as many other oils and that's a huge breakthrough. that's good for our country's energy security and our economy. we know the uncertainty about the economy makes consumers hesitant to lend money and companies less likely to expand. what does it mean for the auto industry? i sat down with the president and ceo and asked him about the strongest influences in the american car market right now. >> i think without any doubt, one of the reasons for which the market is growing again is because there is a lot of innovation. i mean, new styles, new concept. at the same time, the cars are much more efficient. competition is picking up. it's a very exciting time to be in the car industry today in the united states and the choice which is being offered to consumers is tremendous. this is going to only increase in the next year. >> let me take you back into your global ceo perspective for a second. when you look at what's going on in the world. tell me a little bit about your concerns for the united states. >> mainly uncertainty. that's all. there's no particular concern that -- the u.s. is growing, not at the level we would love. we think one is the fact there is not enough jobs created. we know at the end of the day, it is affecting consumers. these are situations we don't like. if you take the year 2011, 2011 for the car industry has been a year of growth compared to 2010. and in any scenario, we are foreseeing the year 2012 in the u.s. higher for the car industry, higher than the year 2011. so we're doing fine. now, we are far from the potential. this market sold 16 million, 17 million cars a year. we don't expect this it come back. >> because it's a mature market. >> we are very far from it. we're expecting this year to be around 12.8 to 13 million cars. and next year we'll see another growth. so that means no particular serious concern for the u.s. market, but some preoccupation that this uncertainty should not stay a long time. >> all right. we've talked in the past about how sometimes it's uncertainty about individual jobs that stop people from buying a new car. but lately it's been just the lack of availability of credit. are you -- what are you seeing? are you seeing creator availability of credit for people who have the money and are employed in the united states who want to buy a car? >> i don't think credit is a problem in the u.s. i don't think there is -- about the functioning of the financial system. line in 2008 and 2009. this may be a concern in europe, as you know, because of the latest scares that everybody had. no, the u.s. -- the only major question is about, you know, when are we going to have a little bit more significant growth for the u.s. market? that's the main question. >> why a double dip recession, if it happens, will be felt differently by each of you out there. i'll explain next in my xyz. can a trading site help make you a sharper trader? mine can. td ameritrade can. they've got trading specialists i can call for help. and paper trading. free practice trading that helps me hone my technique. complex options. and free tutorials. online or in person. can a trading site really make a difference? if it can't, why are you trading there? number one in online equity trades: td ameritrade. trade commission-free for 30 days, plus get up to $500 when you open an account. time now for the xyz of it. i won't predict whether we're headed for a double dip recession. economists are raising the odds lately. what i can tell you is this. a double dip will not be felt equally across this country. you see, there are currently two u.s. economies at least. one for people with good jobs and good credit. one for people who have neither. if you're lucky enough to count yourself among the first group, you might not realize it, but this lousy economy actually presents some opportunities. yep. the stock market's recent plunge has been painful, but it also means that wall street's on sale, giving you the chance to snag quality stocks that pay good dividends at a discount. secondly, despite low mortgage rates, home prices can't seem to find their bottom. so scooping up property now, if you're prepared to sit on it, could bring big returns when the housing market eventually comes back to life. well, that's the story of the haves. the story of opportunity. if you're living in the have not economy, as so many of you are, yours is an entirely different story. bargain stocks and cheap real estate don't do you much good if you're struggling to get by. instead, do what you can to protect yourself. build that emergency fund. even if it means cutting 401 contributions for a while. don't take on any new high-interest debt. and even though i know it's daunting, consider relocating or retraining. there are jobs out there. they may not be in your backyard or your specialty. you have to find them. you may have to retrain for them. no matter what, keep this in mind. if this economy does take another leg down, we're not likely to count on washington for help. the political will just isn't there. we've all have to forge our own path forward no matter which economy we live in. that's it for me. thanks for joining the conversation on "your money." catch christine romans on "your bottom line" saturday mornings at 9:30 a.m. eastern. stay connected on twitter, my handle is @alivelshi and the show handle is