Transcripts For CNNW The Situation Room 20120626

room". all eyes on the supreme court expected to issue its ruling on thursday on president obama's signature first-term achievement, health care reform. it's a hot topic on the2007 supporting president bush's use of the same authority. >> that's right. and with the supreme court case on health care reform expected to come down on thursday, joe, i think it's going to get a lot hotter. >> jim acosta, thanks so much for that. appreciate it. now we're just going to get a little more on this with cnn chief political analyst gloria borger. the candidates argue over the economy and who has a better plan for the future. when you start looking at the water's edge, it gets more complicated. >> it is very complicated. it's very difficult when you're president to talk about how the rest of the world effects us. because you don't want to look like you're whining. you don't want to look like you're assigning blame elsewhere. but having said that, the truth of the matter is that what's going on in the rest of the world does effect us. and this president's been talking about it. i talked to a senior white house advisor who said to me on the substantiative issues we're fine, and then he said, but that's not always what matters in the end. take a listen to president obama at the g-20 summit. >> today we recognize there are a wide range of threats ongoing global economic recovery and growth. but the one that's received the most focus, obviously, and that is having a significant impact in the united states as well as globally is the situation in europe. as our largest trading partner, slower growth in europe means slower growth in american jobs. >> so there's the european fiscal crisis and its impact on our economy and our banks. and of course that's not even mentioning what's going on in iran. the instability there a question of whether israel would strike iran and how that would effect world stability and oil prices. and the list goes on and on and on. and those things, let's face it, are not in the president's control. >> domestically jobs, jobs, jobs. the president said it right there. that's certainly going to effect the vote in november. >> yeah. and if you ask any pollster, what's this election going to come down to, the answer is of course the unemployment number. and that's sort of the indicator of how the country's feeling. take a look at this. i looked at unemployment back when ronald reagan was running for re-election in 1984 versus president obama right now. and that red line is ronald reagan. you see? it went up to a high in the year of his presidency. but then it started heading downward. the blue line is president obama. and it is that unemployment number is plateauing. and that is a real problem for him. because ronald reagan seeing that number going down could claim it was morning in america. >> absolutely. >> and president obama cannot say that yet. >> but we did get an indicator, what, today? >> we did. consumer confidence. again, not good. down for the fourth straight month. unemployment numbers have been higher than 8% for 40 straight months. now, gas prices have gone down considerably. but that still hasn't been factored in yet by the american people. so i think the big question is when does this sort of pessimism really get cemented? is it now? or does the president have a couple more months over the summer to try and get people to believe we're headed on the right track? pollsters disagree about that. >> and you have some stakes that certainly show some improvement in the job numbers, but nationwide there's an issue. >> that's right. and luckily for the president, a lot of the states doing better are those battleground states that he needs to win. so he may be able to say, things are better in your state and it may be a state that he needs for the electoral college. so, it's difficult to predict. >> gloria borger, thanks so much. >> sure. jack cafferty's here with the cafferty file. jack. >> president obama and congress get a big fat d as a grade when it comes to their handling of the economy. cnn money asked 20 economists to grade these lawmakers. and both the president and congress got ds. hard to imagine any other profession where you could keep your job performing at that level. these experts say congress is more interested in scoring political points than in helping the economy. really? they're also worried about the so-called fiscal cliff and the looming disaster if congress can't get its act together. but congress doesn't seem too worried about any of this. "bloomberg news" reports congressional leaders are talking about delaying the $1.2 trillion in automatic spending cuts until march. these cuts are scheduled to go into effect january 1st. at the same time, they might temporarily extend the bush tax cuts and other tax breaks until march. in other words, kick the can down the road some more without making any serious choices. the d grade is looking a little generous. meanwhile, ordinary americans continue to suffer under a weak economy. a new survey shows 28% of americans have no emergency savings. nothing. zero. the general rule of thumb is you ought to have enough to cover at least six months of expenses in the bank. only one in four people have that. and just last week the federal reserve chairman, ben bernanke, said he expects unemployment to remain above 8% through the end of this year. the real absurdity is congress and the president will look at you with a straight face and tell you how they think they deserve to be re-elected. here's the question, economists give the president and congress a d on the economy, how would you grade them? go to cnn.com/caffertyfile. post a comment on my blog. or go to our post on "the situation room" facebook page. joe. >> jack, i think people are worried on capitol hill that the cuts will be so deep they're going to cause real pain. >> these are cuts they agreed to during that huge fight last summer to raise the debt ceiling. this stuff was passed in the law and signed off on by the government. now they don't want to do it because, hey, it's an election year and it could cost them votes. >> jack cafferty, thanks again. when it comes to health care reform, he may be the decider. we take an in depth look at the supreme court's man in the middle, justice anthony kennedy. also, life saving equipment that comes with a huge price tag. dr. sanjay gupta takes us inside the emergency room and shows us what's behind those outrageous hospital bills. plus, heartbreak in florida as families find their homes flooded by tropical storm debby. we're standing by for an update from the national hurricane center this hour. the future of u.s. health care could be decided this week with the supreme court set to hand down its ruling on health care reform on thursday. one goal of the affordable care act is to reign in soaring costs. and if you've ever received a hospital bill, you know some of the charges can be eye-popping. cnn chief medical correspondent, dr. sanjay gupta, takes us in depth. >> one of the questions that comes up all the time is what about these hospital bills? how exactly do they break down? how do you make sense of it? a question that leaves a lot of people scratching their heads. i want to give you an example by taking you into the operating room. this is the hospital where i work where i'm a neurosurgeon. just a room like this costs about $3,000 an hour. that's for starters. come on in. couple quick examples. if you look at a bill you might see an iv bag charge, about $280 just for the bag. that might strike people as very high. stapler. this is a stapler often used in surgery. something like this costs about $1,200. this is a chest tube. if someone has compression of one of their lungs, they might need a chest tube like this. that costs about $1,100. you'll find examples all over the room like this. suture, something in about every operating room in the world, this costs about $200. if you look at even devices like this is a needle used for biopsy, so if there's a concern someone has a tumor, they would use a needle like this. this is going to cost about $800. it's important to keep in mind if you ask the manufacturers of a device like this, why so much money? they'll say, it took years to develop something like this. the research and development costs are significant. also, the guarantee certain level of effectiveness of this needle. that costs money as well. but something maybe you didn't know, when you look at a hospital bill, it's not just the cost of the supplies, there's also administrative costs that are built-in. there's a cost of covering people who simply don't have insurance or can't pay. that's built into these costs as well. and, finally, keep in mind that what is charged and what is ultimately paid are two very different numbers. >> the typical hospital collects about 4% of every dollar that they -- about 4 cents of every dollar that they bill. so it's not coming out in massive profits. it's coming out as results of underpayment from the government. >> i'll tell you, the cost breakdowns like i gave you on lots of these different supplies, a lot of people simply never see. what we have found is a lot of people don't care as well f. you're insured, some people may not even open the hospital bill. but there are about 50 million people uninsured out there and they care very much about hospital bills like this. and what you can do is you can call the hospital and get a detailed breakdown. while you're on the phone with the hospital, if the costs still seem too high or hard to understand, you might be able to negotiate some of these prices down. >> sanjay is joining us live from cnn world headquarters. $800 for a needle? that's pretty incredible. a lot of this at the bottom is really about paying for the uninsured, isn't it? >> yeah. i mean, people i think sort of generally know this and get this, joe, but there's a thing known as uncompensated care. when someone is uninsured and they go to a hospital and have certain costs associated with the health care, that cost is spread out. it's spread out as the taxpayers, increase taxes, but also spread out in the way i showed you. hospitals charge more money and therefore insurance companies charge more money to everybody else. everyone else who has an insurance plan, their premiums are going to go up to pay for that. i wanted to give you a little bit of an example, a concrete one of how that all comes together, joe. >> i think the other thing we have to talk about just a little bit is this individual mandate which supposedly adds more people to the pot, which president obama says will lower overall costs. but the question here is what happens if that mandate is struck down and whether those prices we're talking about are just going to go up to try to cover the other provisions that end up left in play. >> yeah. you know, it's interesting, joe, i've been thinking about this a long time. as you know, i used to work at the white house and work on issues like this. i think the best way to sort of look at it is, if you don't have a mandate but still have the part of law in place that says you can't charge anymore in terms of premiums to someone who is already sick or has a pre-existing illness, what happens is the people will buy health care insurance when they get sick. they're not going to charge more. why not wait until you get sick? the analogy on a car insurance for example is call the car insurance company and ask for car insurance just after you get into a wreck and your car's on the side of the road. obviously that doesn't work. and this has been tried before, joe, in kentucky, at the state level, they tried doing this exact thing. no mandate, but insurance regulations demanding people wouldn't charge anymore in terms of premiums for people who are sick. what they saw is everybody's premiums went up. everybody's premiums went up by as much as 40%. which is why everyone needs to pay attention to this issue, joe. >> car insurance a very interesting example there because a lot of people say so many states require people to buy car insurance, like this thing we're talking about right now. thanks so much for that sanjay gupta. a stunning revelation about swine flu. a new study says a lot more people died than we first thought. just how many may shock you. if you use a mac instead of a pc, you could wind up paying more for a hotel room? we'll tell you what popular site shows mac users pricier rooms. and john edwards could have gone to jail for the affair he had with rielle hunter. now she's dropping a bomb shell about their relationship. standby. 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[ spokesman ] when you refinance your mortgage with quicken loans, you'll find that our rates and fees are extremely competitive. because the last thing you want is to spend too much on your mortgage. one more way quicken loans is engineered to amaze. ♪ a staggering new calculation of the number of deaths from swine flu. marry snow is monitoring that and some of the other top stories in "the situation room" right now. mary, what do you have? >> hi, joe. well, a new study estimates 15 times more people died from the 2009 h1n1 pandemic than previously thought. the world health organization originally said under 19,000 people died. but researchers now say it's more like 284,000. one reason, some countries lacked the ability to identify the virus. now, the study estimates 51% of the deaths occurred in africa and southeast asia. it pays to be a pc if you're using orbitz.com. "the wall street journal" says mac users spend as much as 30% more a night in hotels because orbitz is steering mac users to more expensive rooms. orbitz says mac users are more likely to book four or five-sta pictures when the dock completely gives out. all 12 people in the lake. yikes. including the bride and groom. at least they'll always have a great wedding story to tell. and it's apparently splitsville for rielle hunter and former presidential candidate john edwards. >> we are a family, but as of last -- the end of last week, john edwards and i are no longer a couple. >> the break-up with hunter described as mutual comes just days after the two were photographed together at the beach. and two weeks after the remaining charges were dropped against edwards for allegedly violating campaign finance laws to cover up their extramarital affair. hunter just launched a tell-all book about the relationship. joe. >> you know, i covered that trial. and after all the stuff that came out in the trial, it's really hard to see how they stuck together as long as they did. >> yeah. so much details and drama in that relationship. >> i know. who knows. all right. thanks so much for that, mary. >> sure. it's among the most influential votes they'll ever cast. how will the supreme court justices split on health care reform? we'll go in depth with cnn's senior legal analyst, jeffrey toobin. and another top democrat deciding to skip the party's convention. we'll talk about that more with hi lair rosen and alex in strategy session. so i can get three times the coverage. 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going in depth now. the supreme court is set to announce its decision thursday in the much-awaited health care reform case. as with most controversial issues, the justices are likely to split on the law's constitutionality. so a court of nine men and women could decide matters of life and death for nearly every citizen. but the vote of one justice may be most in play. he's the man in the middle, the ring-leaning justice often swings left on hot button issues, the death penalty, abortion. now the sacramento native might be the one "time" magazine calls the decider. whose vote in thursday's ruling could make all the difference. >> someone's going to be in the middle. for us that's justice kennedy who's a solid conservative but does vote with the left in a material number of cases. and when it comes to health care, there's every reason to think he'll be right there in the center as well. >> the 75-year-old kennedy asked tough questions of both sides during the march oral arguments over the constitutionality of the affordable care act. and the key funding provision, the so-called individual mandate which would require most americans to purchase health insurance or pay a penalty. the justice wondered whether congress went too far. >> the government is saying that the federal government has a duty to tell the individual citizen that it must act, and that is different from what we have in previous cases. and that changes the relationship of the federal government to the individual in a very fundamental way. >> but some sympathy, too, for the obama administration and the unique aspects of health care in the national economy suggesting perhaps the health insurance market was special enough that he could vote to uphold the mandate. >> this is a question about states rights, which he cares a lot about. it's a question about individual liberty and the relationship between the government and the american public, which he cares a lot about. and so it would be quite surprising if he weren't in the majority in the end. we don't know on which of the questions the court's going to divide five to four, but if it does, then he's likely to be the pivotal vote. >> such influence makes kennedy a target from the left and the right. critics say he lacks an overarching judicial authority and his case-by-case approach has earned him nicknames. kennedy comes from a family of lawyers. a federal judge for 37 years. the last quarter century on the high court. friends say he is a curious civic-minded intellectual with a taste for shakespeare and beloved san francisco giants. let's continue our in-depth look at the health care reform case right now with cnn senior legal analyst jeffrey toobin. >> let me ask a question, is it okay that i'm so excited about this? is it okay that i'm so into this? >> i don't know if the rest of the country is. >> i don't know. >> so, now, we know that you think the court is going to overturn at least the individual mandate, right? >> i want to make a prediction that is correct no matter how the court -- after the oral argument i thought there were five votes part of the law and perhaps even all of the law. i thought the argument went poorly for the obama administration. the conservative justices spoke more hostility than i expected. >> we talked about justice kennedy. what we haven't talked about that much is chief justice roberts and whether he might be persuaded to vote for the mandate. >> all of us going into the argument thought justice kennedy would be the key vote. and that may well be the case. what was surprising to me in listening to the questions that the justices asked, it was that chief justice roberts at times and only at times, indicated more of an open mind about the mandate than i had expected. and, look, this is a case that it will define chief justice roberts' legacy, at least the first part of his tenure as chief justice. i anticipate he is going to write the opinion. >> do you think he'll be concerned about blowbacks, people in the country dissatisfied with the court and knocks the court down a notch in the public's view? >> chief justice roberts is very concerned about the public perception but not enough to vote some different way. he's going to vote his conscience, what he believes. >> does he side often with the liberals? >> almost never. but interestingly he did side with the liberals on justice elena kagan decision yesterday. i don't know what significance it has, but a very unusual split in the court. roberts and the more liberal members. >> yesterday was the immigration decision. >> correct. >> we touched on this a little bit. do you think that immigration decision how the court might move on health care? >> a lot of people in minority world trying to do that today and say, well, roberts was trying to, you know, show he's not a complete republican person. i don't know. i don't think so. one of the things about the justices is they take each case on its merit. they don't trade votes. they don't say, well, i'll vote with you on this one if you vote with me on that one. i don't think there's anything you can really judge about the health care case you can learn from the immigration case. >> how likely is it a punt? look at this and say, well, it's too hot an issue and we need to re-argue. i think they might have done that with citizens united. >> there is an option. there is one very obscure part of this case which essentially says the case is premature. the law hasn't gone into effect yet. it doesn't go into effect until 2014. let's just kick the can down the road until then. that's a possibility. based on oral argument, that doesn't seem like a very likely case. i think they're going to decide the merits thumbs up or thumbs down. >> do you think they'd look bad if they decided -- >> not necessarily. there is a doctrine of law that says you don't decide cases until you have to. i think that is a plausible outcome. at this point i think the obama administration would embrace this possibility of just sort of, let the law go into effect, but i don't think that's going to happen. i think we're going to see a decision on the merits. >> good enough. thanks. i did not mention the fact because i'd heard about it but didn't know for sure. you have a new book coming out in the fall called "the oath". >> the obama white house versus the supreme court. and it's all about these nine justices. >> got it. thanks so much, jeffrey toobin. good to see you. news that could spell trouble for the president. one of his biggest supporters four years ago says she will not attend the democratic convention. how worried should the president be? and could this be the end of a very long road for charlie wrangle? you see us bank on busier highways. on once empty fields. everyday you see all the ways all of us at us bank are helping grow our economy. lending more so companies and communities can expand, grow stronger and get back to work. everyday you see all of us serving you, around the country, around the corner. us bank. our cloud is made of bedrock. concrete. and steel. our cloud is the smartest brains combating the latest security threats. it spans oceans, stretches continents. and is scalable as far as the mind can see. our cloud is the cloud other clouds look up to. welcome to the uppernet. verizon. but they can also hold you back. unless you ask, "what's next?" introducing the all-new rx f sport. this is the pursuit of perfection. joining me for today's strategy session are cnn contributor and democratic strategist, hilary rosen and republican consultant also cnn contributor, alex. president obama is attacking bane capital, but this time there's a twist. >> i know how jobs work. i know how jobs come and why they go. i know how jobs are created and how jobs are lost. i understand how jobs come and how jobs go. >> so you get the idea there. we've seen these attacks on bane capital before. and a lot of democrats have reacted negatively including cory booker. there was so much about that, the mayor in new jersey. this is so different though. this is an attack on outsourcing itself. how does that play? and does it alienate the attack? >> it was sort of about attacking bane and the private company and people objected to that. this is actually very specific. mitt romney's running around the country telling people, you know, i know how to bring jobs back here to america. he's, you know, let china and india take over our economy. and yet when people went back and did the research, actually when he was running bane, he was running companies -- consulting with them, sending jobs overseas. it couldn't be more specifically hypocrite kal for mitt romney. i think this is terrible for him. >> alex, when this thing got started last week, there were conference calls and the romney people put out a bunch of different information which is sort of a laundry list that confused the issue. does this outsourcing attack really sort of get people riled up in either party? >> you know, i think it makes the democratic base happy. but my experience with this kind of thing in campaigns is that there are a couple of problems with this kind of attack. one of them is motive. if you're a business guy, okay, you're supposed to maximize profits and all that. but when you're running for president, people don't think you're doing it for profit. the agenda is different. almost like attacking somebody who's not here anymore. and the second part is they're ceding he's a businessman and job maker. he's a silver medal winner. and this is from the guy who's got the 8% unemployment rate. so far in the bane attacks romney has gone up and obama has gone down. >> we haven't seen the result of the impact. >> $5 million in a couple months. >> they're running these ads in specific battleground states. in midwestern states where mitt romney is saying i will bring jobs back, i know how to do it. yeah, he's a job creator, but he's created the jobs in singapore. >> so the question is really whether we're going to see a two-pronged attack. writing from a liberal writer in new york just today suggesting, first you see the obama attack on character almost. and then it moves over to policy as you get closer to the november election. do you think this is sort of a one-two punch that's supposed to soften romney up? >> i think so. i think right now they're trying to say he's a mean guy and attack him as, you know, the source of all evil. the problem is that mitt romney doesn't seem to be that guy. he's a very pragmatic businessman. one of the problems in the primaries was the republicans didn't see him as a passionate right wing guy. well, that turns out to be a plus in the general where he seems to be a very pragmatic guy. but, yes, here they're going to move onto policy. >> the senator, the democratic senator shown a lot of support for the president now saying she's not going to the democratic convention. she's in a tight re-election race. what do you think that means? >> it's a dis to the president. me associating with you isn't good for me. it's hard to spin that wheel. but we've seen that in every re-election for years. >> conventions are beasts for the extremes of both parties. and if you're in a swing state in the middle, you don't want to be seen with the extremes of your party. you want to be seen with the middle. >> democratic congressman charlie rangel, a guy for years and years we've said he's on his way out and somehow he fights and lives to see another day. do you think today is the end of charlie rangel given the fact he's sort of been re-districted? >> i don't. you know, my colleagues in new york feel that he is just -- you know, he's just a beloved figure in harlem in particular and even in spanish harlem. this guy has devoted his career to public service. he has brought a lot home. he's decided he's not ready to go. and i just don't think the people are going to send him away. >> latino opponent though, right? >> that's the big issue, joe. i think you hit it. the black caucus has had a tremendous amount of power in the democratic party for a long time. now there's a new emerging minority challenging them for power, hispanics. they need to assemble a democratic governing consensus but also vying for power. the republican rangel has is a do min can. but i think hilary's right. i think he'll hang on. >> interesting to see what happens because this is a multip multiple-opponent race and that could water down the opposition for charlie rangel. >> could. a weird hot june day. it's a funny day for voter turnout. >> the biggest liability he has is he's 82 years old. dick luger lost because he just lost touch with his district. that's one of the things working against charlie rangel today. >> thanks so much. and we'll see what happens. >> okay. >> good to see you both. >> take care. a fatal shootout at a very busy airport. police officers open fire on other officers. standby for details on that. plus, say good-bye to big ben, at least as you know it now. the famous london landmark gets a name change. we'll tell you what it is. and the president is no stranger to fast food joints, but wait until you hear the barrage of questions he gets when he visits an atlanta favorite. recently, students from 31 countries took part in a science test. the top academic performers surprised some people. so did the country that came in 17th place. let's raise the bar and elevate our academic standards. let's do what's best for our students-by investing in our teachers. let's solve this. delivering mail, medicine and packages. yet the house is considering a bill to close thousands of offices, slash service and layoff over 100,000 workers. the postal service is recording financial losses, but not for reasons you might think. the problem ? a burden no other agency or company bears. a 2006 law that drains $5 billion a year from post office revenue while the postal service is forced to overpay billions more into federal accounts. house bill 2309 is not the answer. three police officers dead from a shootout at an airport. mary snow's monitoring that and some of the other top stories in "the situation room" right now. mary, what do you have? >> hi there, joe. well, it happened in mexico city at the country's busiest airport. mexican officials say two police officers who were under investigation for their connection to a drug trafficking ring opened fire on fellow officers to avoid being arrested. two of the officers died at the scene. over 47,000 people have died in drug-related violence throughout mexico since 2006. you can say good-bye to london's famous big ben, at least to that name. a parliament official says the landmark will be renamed elizabeth tower. this just weeks after the queen's diamond jubilee celebration. the clock tower was completed in 1859 and got the name big ben from the giant bell inside. a new report shows home prices rose in april for the first time in seven months. the bad news, they're still near record lows down 34% from their peak in the summer of 2006. the uptick did help stocks rally early today. investors remain pessimistic about an upcoming european summit. the dow rose tho 32 points. and president obama lunched where the staff bombarded him with the fast food joint's trademark phrase. in case you're not familiar, they're asking, what'll you have? a question very familiar to those in atlanta. and if you want to know what he actually had, the president ordered five chili dogs or regular dogs and one hamburger for himself and his staff. never been there. have you? >> i haven't. sounds pretty chaotic. i've been to ben's chili bowl here in d.c. thanks so much, mary. >> okay. severe cuts to the federal budget including hundreds of billions of dollars slashed from the department of defense will automatically go into effect next year unless congress acts to stop them or delay them. cnn anchor, erin burnett, has been following the story. she's joining me now with the report. erin, what are you learning? >> it's interesting, obviously these cuts are severe and going to require so many layoffs from the defense area, joe, that by federal law the defense contractors will have to notify people 60 days in advance. of course that means notifying them right before election day. so there is a lot of incentive on both sides of the aisle to delay some of this sequester. there's been a lot of purporting out there that perhaps there's a deal being talked about that maybe in congress they would go ahead and basically kick the can down the road, have the sequester not take effect until early next year, maybe march. we've spent time talking to staffers on the hill. basically it seems there are talks going on right now that would essentially push this out a little bit. but, joe, i think the real problem with that is going to be republicans say, oh, yeah, we're talking about this. we're going to extend the bush tax cuts and get rid of the sequester. democrats going, wait a minute. you can't do that and you can't get rid of those unless you deal with the cuts to services part of the $1.2 trillion sequestration cut. what you will talk about is a delay. bottom line is about 31 days until now and the elections in november when members of the house are actually going to be in session. because they're out campaigning. only about 31 days to do a deal. >> a lot of people are saying these are potentially very dangerous situations when these cuts go into effect. that's why they need to postpone them, at least for a while. >> yeah. and you know what? they're right about that. numbers some bipartisan, some more slanted toward the defense industry give you numbers between 1 million and 1.5 million jobs could be effected by the sequester alone. those are jobs we need right now. so they will make that argument. but when you look at the numbers, you kick the can down the road three months for the bush tax cuts and unemployment and payroll and sequestration, you're looking at a few hundred billion dollars. this money really adds up. we've got to keep raising that debt ceiling. at some point we have to make the tough choice, either really commit, spend it and take what comes with that, or make the cuts. right now it looks like they're not doing either one. that's the worst possible outcome. >> erin burnett talking about a very serious situation that we're probably going to be hearing so much more about in just the next few weeks. thanks for that. we'll be watching for your show tonight. >> all right. see you, joe. thousands of people forced to evacuate their homes. coming up, we'll get the latest official update on the storm that's paralyzing parts of florida. plus, are the u.s. and its allies being tough enough on syria? 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dan in pennsylvania writes both parties in both houses for wrapping dog poo politicizing it as candy and claiming the other side won't vote for their wonderful legislation, i give them all fs. i think the president has tried but he was unable to finish the deal through no fault of his own. i'll give him a c. a for effort, c for results. david in florida writes give the president a d plus on the economy and congress an a for absent or abysmal or asinine. i think these people should reimburse the government for two years of unearned wages. when i look at these people as a group, i'm reminded of the peter principle. promoting someone to their level of competence. these folks in congress have all been promoted far beyond their level of competent. another one, a big fat f. koun graded because the congress can't get anything done. if obama doesn't get asserted with congress, he can kiss a second term good-bye. larry in houston says the president gets a d plus, congress gets an f. at least we know what obama's going to do if he's re-elected. for romney, if he wins, he'll get an elevator and the middle class will get a shaft. and another, give obama a c plus and congress a good swift kick in the a. if you want to read more about this, go to the blog at cnn.com/caffertyfile or through the post on "the situation room" facebook page. >> congress approval ratings just aren't the best right now. >> really? what a surprise. they're doing such an extraordinary job, don't you think? about 17% approve. who are these people? >> i think it's up to 17%. >> the people who approve of the congress should be deported from this nation immediately and not allowed to vote anymore. >> thank you very much, jack. we'll be right back. it's hallowed ground where almost 3,000 people died on one of america's darkest days. so you can imagine the outrage when a group of young people disrespected the 9/11 memorial by littering. cnn's mary snow has details. mary, what happened here? >> well, joe, a brooklyn junior high school has apologized for the 9/11 for being disrespectful at the site. but the father of one of the victims on 9/11 says it's not just the kids to blame, he faults the memorial itself. the 9/11 memorial has drawn 3 million visitors since it opened last year. but it's in the middle of a controversy after a junior high class was kicked out last week accused of throwing trash into one of the reflecting pools honoring those killed on september 11th. jim richies, who lost his son, a firefighter in the attack, calls it deplorable. he's been an outspoken critic of the memorial and blames the people running it. >> you should be talked to, say it's hallowed ground and give a little education. they send them out there, it's a park-like atmosphere, waterfall, trees, people laying on the grass and there's no real control. i find them at fault also. >> the principal of the brooklyn school apologizes but admits in a letter to the memorial, there was not a lack of preparation, there was a lack of decorum and respect. the 9/11 memorial points out that when visitors go online for passes, they are given information and rules on prohibited people reminding people that the 9/11 remor yal is a place of reflection. we asked one worker who didn't want to be identified about visitors to the memorial. >> do you think they feel like it's a special place? >> no. sometimes, yes. sometimes no. there's a lot of people come over here, you know. different groups, different countries. >> a board member who lost her brother on 9/11 sees people on the grass of the memorial a vry differway. lt mean, that was the whole premise behind the type of memorial that we have. all these life affirming elements, water, sky, grass, was to provide that sense of hope. >> the board member you just saw we spoke with says the board is concerned and dedicated to making sure the atmosphere is one of respect at memorial. but she says efforts to educate people will go a long way once the museum is open. and, joe, it's unclear when that will happen. that's been held up. >> mary snow, thanks so much for that report. you're in "the situation room." happening now, thousands of people in florida are knee deep in water and misery. and tropical storm debby isn't done with them yet. this hour a new hurricane advisory on the storm, the flooding and the danger ahead. plus, a powerful u.s. lawmaker and republican fundraiser the target of at least four high-level investigations. now a witness against congressman buchanan is speaking exclusively to cnn about allegations of a money laundering scheme and cover-up. and some people say chicago's become more dangerous than the war zone in afghanistan. we're taking a hard look at gang violence and teenagers who are doing the shooting and the dying. >> anybody want to kill me, i may end up killing you, you and you and not killing me. welcome to our viewers in the united states and around the world. wolf blitzer is off today. i'm joe johns. you're in "the situation room." people who live along florida's gulf coast are used to rain, they're used to hurricanes, but they haven't seen a downpour quite like they've gotten from tropical storm debby. this is what happens when you get hammered by as much as two feet of rain. some of it falling in just a matter of minutes. mandatory evacuations were ordered today for 2,000 homes along a flooded river in the tampa bay area. parts of the main interstate across northern florida were closed today as debby hovered offshore. this very slow-moving storm has weakened. but that's not much consolation for folk who is are bailing water out of their homes or those who may get hit when debby crosses land. john zarrella and george how standing by. do you have the new advisory from the national hurricane center now, chad? >> brand new in my hands, joe. still a 40-mile-per-hour storm. which means it's still a tropical storm. but the latest here, the big breaking news here, the just-in, is that it's now on land. it did cross over land west of gainesville. that will allow the storm to weaken even more. i would say the center will be right about there and travel just to the south of jacksonville. but the problem has been north of that area right along the i-10 corridor. that's where the flooding has been today. and that's where it was yesterday. all of that flooding here south of tallahassee. we'll show you pictures in a minute. you might not believe what you're going to see here with those pictures, how much water in the streets of some of those towns there just to the south of tallahassee. there it goes. there's the rain. there's the thundershower activity. here's the rain we're talking about, joe. we talked about this yesterday where at times five inches of rain per hour were coming downright near the town of sandborn. more like a cross roads. 25 to 26 inches of rain in 48 hours. and it just continues to rain in some of these spots. and the flooding continues as well. we have an on shore flow where john zarrella is. could see a bit of thunderstorm activity, maybe even a small waterspout coming on shore. but the big threat with this is not that kind of weather. the threat is inland, rainfall. we call it freshwater flooding. rain that comes down, gets into the creeks, valleys, streams, and all of a sudden your car, house, whatever you're on, under water. we're also seeing on the i-10 interstate there out of jacksonville and goes west, a sinkhole right on the interstate. the interstate's closed around the i-75/i-10 corridor. i-10, nobody going east to west because of flooding. and now we have reports of that sinkhole. joe. >> ready to say the worst is over for some people at least? >> yes. absolutely the worst is over. although it takes time for the water to go down. even though the rain stops, that doesn't mean your flood's over. sometimes it rains upstream and all that upstream water has to come downstream. you think it's over because the rain stops, but there's still more water to come. >> chad myers, thanks so much for that. florida officials have had to use boats to get residents trapped by flooding. more than 50 people were rescued from their homes in the florida panhandle. cnn's george hall is there. what kind of damages are you seeing there, george? >> reporter: joe, we are seeing homes under water. we are seeing fast rising wifr here in wakulla county. in fact, we were on the other side of this bridge just a few minutes ago talking to a family covering this story. and crews forced us to evacuate to move here to this side, concerned that water would, as it did, overtake this bridge. even though the sun is out, we found many residents still dealing with the fallout from this tropical storm. >> your own place, that's a little different. >> dodging power lines and low hanging branches, we took a boat ride as emergency crews took them through what used to be their neighborhood. >> this road leads to seminole lane. >> i can't believe the current through here. the current is really -- it's ripping. >> reporter: after passing several homes. >> should be just down here on the left somewhere. i don't recognize anything now. >> reporter: the reality of wlast left became painfully apparent. >> we have a utility trailer. who knows where that is. >> reporter: officials say crews had to rescue dozens from their homes. >> the amount of rain we had, the water levels came up so fast, some of the folks didn't have time to pack their things and move out. so they're having to do it after the fact. >> reporter: on the other side of the county, some residents luckier than others. >> i'm praying that it's okay. i'm praying god's taking care of it. >> reporter: these are pictures of her house when the flood waters were rising. she returned to find her prayers had been answered. >> nothing got ruined. even though the water -- i didn't think we was going to get out yesterday. >> reporter: no one expected the water to rise as fast as it did. the water rose to the second floor in some homes. but the pesiks are determined to start over. they can't help look back regretfully at all the hours they put into their house they now have to rebuild. >> we're okay. it's just a lot of investment of time and where you could have been doing other things. that's kind of disappointing. >> all those sunny days we could have been fishing, honey. >> reporter: people keeping an optimistic attitude. a live picture here in wakulla county. keep in mind it's the convergence of all the different rivers and the flow of flood waters flowing out into the gulf and many of these rivers are still rising, joe. >> you know, i look at that video. and the first thing i think of, george, is gators and snakes. i would assume that could be a bit of a problem there too. >> i will tell you when we were out on -- i say river, what used to be a street, but what seemed to be a river, that was definitely a concern when we were dodging power lines. you're also looking for those things out in the woods, the snakes that could be a problem. >> you bet. all right. thanks so much for that. stay safe. i hate gators and snakes. now, to tampa where the flooding and storm damage is raising concerns about what might happen in a couple of months when the republicans come to town. our john zarrella is there. john, what's the situation there right now? >> reporter: well, you know, joe, what a difference a few hours makes. this is bay shore boulevard. it's the main artery here in the tampa area. you can see it's dry. now, you were talking with chad and with george all about inland flooding. what we had here was tidal flooding. and for two days all of bay shore was closed because of that flooding up until just a few hours ago. that's tampa bay behind me there. the water coming across because of the onshore flow they've had constantly building up and pounding on to the roadway and closing it entirely down. but now even though high tide is just a couple hours away, a good sign, silver lining, the water is actually receded here along bay shore and you can see they're going to start to reopen this area pretty soon. but, again, earlier today, just like six hours ago, joe, all of where i'm standing was under probably six inches to almost a foot of water. joe. >> john, you are not far from the site of the republican national convention, which is going to go on there in august. the city's obviously getting ready. and the thing that comes to mind here in washington is, what are they going to do if another big storm hits during the convention? >> reporter: yeah. that's a genuine concern. let me show you, we're about 400 yards where we are now from where the convention is going to be. that building in the distance, the convention center, right next to that is the forum where they will also hold many of the activities for the convention. and i had an opportunity to talk to the mayor earlier today because the convention is right at the height of hurricane season, the end of august. and he told me, you know what, when we bid for the convention, we took that into consideration. >> we actually calculated the odds when we bid on the republican national convention. and it is probably less than 1% chance that a hurricane will hit based on history. that doesn't mean we haven't stopped training, because we have. i don't want to be the mayor when that 1% odd occurs. but if it does occur, we're going to make sure that we get people out and we deploy. >> reporter: what would you do? what are the contingency plans? does the convention get canceled, delayed? >> that depends on the track of the storm, the strength of the storm. the decision to cancel the convention is the republican party. we will get together if that situation presented itself, we will make the decision that's in the best interests of everybody here, whether they're residents or guests. but ultimately that decision will be in terms of saving people's lives and making sure we get people out of harm's way, not a politics for the convention. >> reporter: now, the mayor was telling me that if they had a storm like this hit in august and the power doesn't go out and it's a tropical storm, most likely the convention will go on. that's not going to interfere. the question would be, if you had a severe storm, a more serious hurricane for instance a category two or three, what would they do then? you heard the mayor say they do have contingency plans but life is of the utmost concern and that would be the consideration that they would have to take at the highest level as far as whether the convention would actually go on or not. if they were to have a storm that bad. joe. >> less than 1% odds of a storm hitting during the convention, boy, we're going to hold onto that video and see what happens. thanks so much, john zarrella, for that. they could use some of florida's rain in the colorado fire zone right now. a raging wildfire is spreading closer to some of the state's popular tourist sites including the u.s. air force academy. cnn's jim spellman is near the lines of the blaze in colorado springs. >> look at this. they're working hard from the sky and the ground to make sure that stays the case. this is the edge of the fire nearest the city. they're dropping retardant from planes and using helicopters to drop water on it. try to keep all of the homes safe, they've only got 5% containment. and really difficult operating conditions here. high temperatures, high winds, low humidity are making the fire incredibly active here during the afternoon and incredibly difficult for firefighters to try to get the upper hand on. we've called in more crews and more equipment they say can take up to three weeks before they have the fire fully contained. jim spellman, cnn, colorado springs. tension between syria and turkey just keep ratcheting higher. could it lead to another conflict in a region already reeling from bloodshed? plus, a powerful u.s. congressman and republican fundraiser is being accused of a money laundering scheme and cover-up. now, the key witness against him is speaking out in an exclusive interview with cnn. plus, jerry sandusky's adopted son, matt, on tape talking about being sexually abused by the convicted child rapist when he was a boy. 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what about the public who pays the teacher salary? aren't we entitled to know who's cutting it and who isn't? yes, we are. credit the political muscle of the teachers unions with another stifling yet another attempt to restore some accountability to the public school system. here's the question, how can we restore confidence in our public schools? go to cnn.com/caffertyfile, post a comment on my blog. or go to our post on "the situation room" facebook page. makes a lot of sense, joe. they rate these teachers, give them a performance grade or rating of some kind. then they keep it a secret. they don't want anybody to know what it is. >> that doesn't make very much sense, does it? >> not at all. >> well, government. thanks so much. back at you in a minute. new question today about whether the u.s. and its allies are tough enough on syrian president bashar al-assad. the alliance meant to discuss the shootdown of a turkish fighter jet over syria and what it could mean from a region already reeling from the syrian uprising. here's our pentagon correspondent, barbara starr. >> nato did exactly what the obama administration wanted. talked but made no military commitment. at nato tough talk after the meeting to discuss the syrian shoot down of a turkish jet. >> we consider this act to be unacceptable and condemn it in the strongest terms. >> reporter: but turkey did not demand any sort of immediate military response from nato members. instead, the turkish prime minister said his military is changing its rules of engagement. >> translator: any military approach deemed to be a risk to the turkish border from the syrian side will be perceived as a threat and dealt with accordingly. >> reporter: u.s. military officials say they accept turkey at its word that it could decide to attack unilaterally. >> turkey is our ally. we're prepared to look at any requests that turkey wants to make. >> reporter: but should bashar al-assad be worried? >> you have a relationship gone from normal military cooperation a year and a half ago to all sort of military confrontation. this can escalate very quickly in ways that neither country wants. >> reporter: but the lack of military response could encourage syria's president. >> he has no incentive to change his course of action. >> reporter: senior u.s. intelligence officials believe what is happening inside syria is now essentially a seesaw battle. in the last several weeks there's evidence the opposition is getting better, hitting government checkpoints, engaging in hit-and-run tactics. but regime forces are improving as well. even though the u.s. hopes and believes assad will go, both sides essentially are stalemated for now. the u.s. believes bashar al-assad has only hardened his resolve to remain in power. in the face of that, u.s. policy remains unchanged. it is focused on diplomacy. joe. the ceos of some of the biggest banks in the world raking in annual pay hikes of more than $12 million. up next, details in the findings of a stunning new report. plus, one man gives new meaning to the term good samaritan returning almost $13,000 to its rightful owner. and you won't believe where he found it. the first trade route to the west, the greatest empires. then, some said, we lost our edge. well today, there's a new new york state. one that's working to attract businesses and create jobs. a place where innovation meets determination... and businesses lead the world. the new new york works for business. find out how it can work for yours at thenewny.com. i've been fortunate to win on golf's biggest stages. but when joint pain and stiffness from psoriatic arthritis hit, even the smallest things became difficult. i finally understood what serious joint pain is like. i talked to my rheumatologist and he prescribed enbrel. enbrel can help relieve pain, stiffness, and stop joint damage. because enbrel, etanercept, suppresses your immune system, it may lower your ability to fight infections. serious, sometimes fatal events including infections, tuberculosis, lymphoma, other cancers, and nervous system and blood disorders have occurred. before starting enbrel, your doctor should test you for tuberculosis and discuss whether you've been to a region where certain fungal infections are common. don't start enbrel if you have an infection like the flu. tell your doctor if you're prone to infections, have cuts or sores, have had hepatitis b, have been treated for heart failure, or if, while on enbrel, you experience persistent fever, bruising, bleeding, or paleness. 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[ doctor ] enbrel, the number one biolog medicine prescribed by rheumatologists. there's a new report revealing an almost 12% annual pay hike for top bank ceos in the u.s. and europe. our mary snow is monitoring that and some of the other top stories in "the situation room" right now. mary, what do you have? >> hi, joe. the research jump in financial times showed an average increase in pay last year of more than $12 million for a second year in a row. despite wide spreads in profit losses. at the very top, jpmorgan chase's jamie dimon recently hit with a $2 billion pay package. the federal government is suing wyndham hotels for allegedly stolen credit card information. s.e.c. documents allege the hotel's lacking security policies allowed russian hackers to access more than 500,000 accounts between the year 2008 and 2010. an injunction could force the hotel giant to implement new security measures. facebook appears to have pulled a controversial feature from its website following an internet uproar. the friends nearby feature later dubbed the stalking app by one site allows users to get a digital list of other facebookers nearby. many consider it an invasion of privacy. the company says it's merely a test of the feature. not a formal release. and a tennessee man is giving new meaning to the term good samaritan. after finding almost $13,000 in cash and giving it back to its rightful owner. our affiliate, wkrn says the money was in a wallet inside a bag in a convenience store trash can. he couldn't track down the owner so he called police. turned out the 51-year-old owner suffered a medical condition and left the bag at the store. great story, joe. >> boy, you can't imagine how lucky he was for the one guy to find it that would actually turn it in. that's pretty incredible. >> it is incredible. and this guy says many people have come and gone and nobody noticed it. >> wow. what a story. thanks so much for that. the key witness against a powerful u.s. congressman is talking to cnn about allegations of a money laundering scheme and cover-up. standby for that exclusive interview. and the young gang members turning the streets of chicago into a war zone. >> i will probably see 18. i'm a gang banger. our cloud is made of bedrock. concrete. and steel. our cloud is the smartest brains combating the latest security threats. it spans oceans, stretches continents. and is scalable as far as the mind can see. our cloud is the cloud other clouds look up to. welcome to the uppernet. verizon. at liberty mutual, we know how much you count on your car, and how much the people in your life count on you. that's why we offer accident forgiveness, where your price won't increase due to your first accident. we also offer a hassle-free lifetime repair guarantee, where the repairs made on your car are guaranteed for life, or they're on us. these are just two of the valuable features you can expect from liberty mutual. plus, when you insure both your home and car with us, it could save you time and money. at liberty mutual, we help you move on with your life, so get the insurance responsible drivers like you deserve. call us at... or visit your local liberty mutual office, where an agent can help you find the policy that's right for you. liberty mutual insurance, responsibility -- what's your policy? cnn has confirmed that a powerful republican congressman and party fundraiser is facing at least four congressional and federal investigations right now. cnn tried to catch up with third-term congressman vern buchanan, but he didn't want to say much about the investigation that could possibly put him behind bars. buchanan is a self-made florida millionaire who sits on the powerful house weighs and means committee and is in charge of fund raising for the republican congressional campaign committee. investigators are looking into his business practices, his campaign finances and his alleged attempt to try to stop a witness from talking. now, that witness is stepping forward in an exclusive interview with cnn investigative correspondent, drew griffin. >> sam kazran is a former business partner of congressman vern buchanan. the partnership started here at a weed-filled lot, a former auto dealership in north jacksonville, florida. eventually the two would own four dealerships together. >> what kind of guy was he? >> you know, mr. buchanan -- i respected him, i believed him. >> kazran admits he says he was naive. he says the man was just interested in two things, money and power. can you make a judgment call? do you think this guy should be in congress? >> you know, let's put it this way, mr. buchanan is a very selfish person. and in my opinion folks who go to congress got to do good for the people they represent. >> reporter: kazran presented to cnn the same information, documents and testimony he's now given to federal investigators. the two men had a falling out over finances. they've been suing each other for years. for his part, buchanan says kazran is a disgrunted partner and lied about what's happened. at the center of kazran's allegations is a cash swap scheme used to finance some of buchanan's campaign. employees forced to write checks then reimburse with cash drawn from buchanan's car dealership. >> it was to a point where i said, chief, we can't give you this kind of money. and that's when he went to the corporation. >> and what did that mean you? run it through the corporation? >> what he said to me, get people to write a check to the campaign and pay them back through the corporation. and that's what i did. >> that's what he said? >> yeah. he said run it through the corporation. absolutely. >> reporter: kazran did and was soon calling in people who never even gave money to campaigns suddenly writing big checks to buchanan for congress. and according to to kazran, getting reimbursed from the dealership. >> he would say i need more money. >> it added up to almost $70,000 at kazran's dealerships alone. >> as a matter of fact, i remember one of the partners, says, boss, you have all the money in the world, why do you want us to pay you the money? he would say, well, it doesn't look good if it comes from me. >> reporter: he took his details allegations to the federal election commission, already looking into buchanan's finances. investigators there now wanted to know not only about how the cash swap scheme worked, but if the congressman knew about it. >> this was absolutely his idea? >> correct. >> the f.e.c.'s initial report found reason to believe that congressman buchanan knowingly and willfully violated the election law. but then in a later report they pulled back saying it found credibility problems with both kazran and buchanan and not enough corroborating evidence to back up kazran's testimony. the fec dropped the investigation but fined kazran for $5,000, why? because he admitted to reimbursing for contribution. while the congressman says that proves he's innocent, the findings at the fec were more convoluted stating it came close to supporting a finding that it is more likely than not that buchanan violated the law. and that's where this gets much more serious for the congressman. during the fec probe, congressman buchanan pushed to settle a lawsuit kazran had brought against him. and at the last minute with a $2.9 million settlement offer from buchanan dangling in front of him, kazran said he was given this. >> they wanted me to sign this affidavit. >> according to kazran, the congressman and his attorneys were asking him to sign a statement that was a lie. that buchanan knew nothing about the cash swap. >> in short this thing did happen but mr. buchanan had nothing to do with this. >> kazran refused to sign and took the affidavit to federal investigators. now cnn has learned congressman vern buchanan is being investigated for attempted to tamper with a witness in a federal investigation. after repeated requests for interviews from the congressman were ignored, we decided to find vern buchanan as he emerged from a hearing. i wanted to ask you about this deal with sam kazran. did you make him sign this after or try to get him to sign this affidavit? >> no. >> you didn't do that? >> try calling my office. >> i tried calling your office. they said you were unavailable. you didn't hold this over his head for the $3 million settlement? in a recent report released quietly several weeks ago, the office of congressional ethics wrote, there is substantial reason to believe that representative buchanan attempted to influence the testimony of a witness in a proceeding before the fec in violation of federal law and house ethics codes. now, a full house ethics committee is looking into it. cnn is also learned the fbi and the irs are conducting their own investigation. are you concerned at all about the irs and fbi now investigating this fec and oce complaints? his office did respond to our interview requests with a statement saying that charges are politically motivated. the congressman did nothing wrong and, we are confident that the justice department and house ethics committee will reach the same conclusion. >> we reached out to congressman buchanan for an interview. his office never returned our calls. chicago's murder rate is exploding. and for some young gang members, it's just another day of shoot or be shot. >> i see people get shot, killed, robbed. i've done all that. it's crazy. >> we'll take a hard look at gang violence and the casualties. and the disturbing reporting of jerry sandusky's adopted son talking about being sexually abused by the former penn state assistant coach, now a convicted child rapist. i have to know the weather patterns. i upgraded to the new sprint direct connect. so i can get three times the coverage. 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[ chirp ] four dead and at least 30 wounded in another weekend of gang violence in chicago as the city's murder rate climbs. cnn's ted rowlands talked to two gang members about their way of death is a way of life. ted joining us now from chicago. >> reporter: hi, joe. bottom line here is numbers are very concerning. murder rate 30% higher this year compare today last year here in the city of chicago. and the people that live in the effected neighborhoods, and they are select neighborhoods, say they are sick and tired of it and want something done about it. his family wants you to take a good look at something you may need to brace yourself for. his body in an open casket. this, they say, is what violence on the streets of chicago really looks like. the 20-year-old had recently return today chicago from college in georgia. he was gunned down in what police are calling a gang shooting. >> he's a handsome young man, too. very handsome young man. >> reporter: the funeral was friday, a few hours before the start of another violent weekend in chicago. >> i won't probably see 18. i'm a gangbanger. i ain't going to lie. i'm going to keep it real with you. >> reporter: they are both 16, both are associated with a gang and say they wouldn't be surprised if they were shot today. >> just walking down the street, you never know. it could be your time to go. >> you always got to look behind turning your back. anybody want to kill me, may end up killing you, you and you and not killing me. >> reporter: the kids are matter of fact about the things they do and what they've seen. >> i've seen people get shot, killed, robbed, i've done some of that -- all that. it's crazy. >> reporter: according to chicago police, the murder rate here is up 35% compared to last year. people living here say that gangs have taken over. some say they'd like to see the national guard come in. >> we need help. we need help. that's the only way i can put it. >> reporter: there are no jobs and people have no idea how hard tsz to survive. >> have they ever had to wear the same clothes week in and week out -- >> a week straight? >> wash your underwear out in the sink and hang it up so your school clothes will be ready. not knowing when your next meal will come. >> reporter: they would like to finish high school and get a good job. the dropout rate in chicago's schools is a staggering 40%. and maurice and silas say they know it's very possible they'll end up in prison or in a casket. joe, of course the big question is, why has the murder rate gone up? chicago police say there's a number of different reasons or theories. one is after the housing projects in chicago were mowed down a few years ago, gangs splintered out. you have two to three block areas, more gangs, more borders, more violence. guns were rampant in the street last weekend. they had a gun buyback program here, an astounding 5,500 guns were picked up just over the weekend in a buyback. they say that's not even putting a dent in it. the other thing they do say may be a cause here is the weather. it was such a mild winter, people were out and about more so than in other years. that will play itself out as this year goes on. bottom line, people very concerned here in chicago. >> well, that weather certainly's got to play into it at least. thanks so much for that report, ted rowlands. it's a bill that's supposed to help veterans pay for school. but are schools actually the ones profiting with billions of dollars of your money? ahead, details on some disturbing new allegations. plus, whatever the supreme court decides on the health care law, it's clear one gop senate candidate is ready with the response. up next, the youtube blunder that has democrats pouncing. with scottrader streaming quotes, any way you want. fully customize it for your trading process -- from thought to trade, on every screen. and all in real time. which makes it just like having your own trading floor, right at your fingertips. 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[ all ] i'm with scottrade. but they can also hold you back. unless you ask, "what's next?" introducing the all-new rx f sport. this is the pursuit of perfection. just $14.99. start with soup, salad and cheddar bay biscuits then choose one of 7 entrees plus dessert! four perfect courses, just $14.99. come into red lobster and sea food differently. turning to the child sex abuse conviction of jerry sandusky. a new audiotape obtained by nbc news of an interview his adopted son, matt sandusky, gave to police. he now admits being abused by his father. and on that tape he's apparently agonizing about the grand jury testimony where he denied the molestation. he thought testifying in the trial could help set the record straight and that potential testimony eventually led to jerry sandusky's decision not to testify in his own defense. >> with like the showering, with the hugging, with the rubbing, with the just the talking to me, the way he spoke. >> you said at the beginning of our interview last night that things happened to you, but that you can recall there was no penetration or oral sex, is that correct? >> yes. at this time i don't recall it. >> matt sandusky said he was coming forward now so his family would really know what happened. >> so that they can really have closure and see what the truth actually is. and just to right the wrong, honestly, of going to the grand jury and lying. >> matt sandusky's attorneys released a statement saying the tape demonstrates matt's tremendous courage and strength. susan is joining us now. it sparked quite a meeting today? >> it did. subject of a hastily called meeting. attended by several people including prosecutors and defense attorneys, even the judge overseeing the grand jury that's been investigating the sandusky case. according to a source of knowledge of the meeting, but no one owned up to who was responsible for sharing that audiotape. it's expected that the tape would be used by the grand jury that's still considering the sandusky case. and if anymore victims wind up being charged, it's unlikely that would happen before sandusky's sentencing expected in september. >> do we know anything more about what it's like for jerry sandusky now that he's been locked up? >> well, we do, joe. for one thing, we have a quote from jerry sandusky. i asked his attorney to ask sandusky a question for me when he visited him. and what he wanted to tell the jury. and sandusky said, i'm innocent. i didn't do it. according to his lawyer. and the lawyer also said that sandusky says he doesn't regret not taking the stand. he says i didn't do this. he does say that after consulting with his attorneys, he didn't take the stand. but we know now, joe, that if he did, his son matt could have been called to testify against his father as a rebuttal witness for the prosecution. sandusky is still under suicide watch. he was put there protectively until sandusky can get a psychological examination. the cell itself is only about 8 by 10 feet. there's a glass window in the door. and i'm told a guard sits there 24/7 to keep an eye on sandusky. and he's wearing a yellow tunic that's designed to prevent him from hurting himself. although he's not threatened to take his own life, joe. >> susan with new details on this very, very sad story that simply doesn't seem to go away. thanks, susan, sadly for that. at least 18 people dead and devastating landslides. mary snow is monitoring that. mary, what do you have? >> officials in uganda fear tha higher as countless more could be missing. heavy rains and mud pummeled the village leaving at least 15 homes from being destroyed. the red cross is working to relocate more than a thousand people. a senate committee is slamming for profit schools alleging they're cashing in on the gi bill that covers some tuition for veterans. the va paid out more than $4 billion for tuition and fees from 2009 to 2011. for profit private schools raked in 37% of those funds, but educated just 25% of veterans. the white house has also accused some of these institutions are engaging in misleading recruiting practices. a spokesperson for private sector colleges and university says for profit schools are working with congress and veteran organizations on solutions in many areas of concern. indiana's republican senate candidate is getting heat for a string of videos prematurely uploaded to youtube ahead of the supreme court's anticipated health carey form ruling thursday. the four videos feature richard mourdock's reaction to different potential outcomes. his campaign told our affiliate, all campaigns prepare comments ahead of time for decisions like this. no guessing his reaction, joe. >> that's unbelievable. technology can be tough to candidates running for office. >> can't erase that. yeah. >> thanks so much, mary. time to check back with jack cafferty. jack? >> how are you going to follow that? what kind of a looney tune does that. i have four different responses. i'll upload them ahead of time. >> that's totally late night comedy material. >> question this hour, how can we restore confidence in our public schools. we used to have good schools in this country, used to know how to do this stuff. no longer. as a former high school teacher, i know what happened and who's responsible. our schools were ruined by the same catastrophic liberal experiments that ruined our families and larger culture. we won't fix the schools until the liberal mindset is swept aside. tom in texas writes stop selling war and buying every piece of military hardware on the planet. cut the defense budget in half, reallocate those funds to education forever. we will still have a bloated military, but then those in the military will be able to read operating instructions of the equipment they buy. mark in houston. my wife was a teacher with three advanced degrees for 45 years when she had the right to run the classroom, there was seldom a problem. students that didn't behave were disciplined. students were taught to think, not just take tests. no child left behind changed all that. now if a student does poorly, no matter the behavior or family support, it is the teacher's fault. education if that's what tgs still called is nothing more than a concept that places the blame everywhere than where it belongs, the students. steve writes we can start by teaching the basic reading and writing skills. and susan in california. stop using the school for baby-sitting, leave the technology at home. if you need your parent, the school will call them, like back in the dark ages when i was in school. if the parents make excuses for their children's poor behavior, they will become poor excuses for adults. you want to read more about this, go to the blog, cnn.com/caffertyfile, or through our post on "the situation room" facebook page. as always, it has been fun. >> it has. thanks. see you soon. a muppet on a rampage, frightening children and disturbing adults in new york. jeanne moos shows us elmo gone wild. so you're no marathon man. but thanks to the htc one x from at&t, with its built in beats audio, every note sounds amazingly clear. ...making it easy to get lost in the music... and, well... rio vista?!! [ male announcer ] ...lost. introducing the musically enhanced htc one x from at&t. rethink possible. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ assure my patients get evthe very best care.ake but look at our health care system. everyone agreed we needed reforms -- but this new health care law -- it just isn't fixing things. president obama promised my patients that they could keep me -- but what if because of this new health care law -- i can't keep them? i've looked at this law. i know the consequences: delayed care and worse yet -- denied care. studies show the president's health care law is projected to add hundreds of billions of dollars to our deficit -- and increase spending by more than a trillion dollars. and the truth is -- we still don't know how much this law will eventually cost. i don't want anything to come between my patients and me -- especially washington bureaucrats. we need real reform that improves care, and the president's health care law just isn't it. it just isn't worth it. this is where health care decisions should be made. not in washington. here is a look at this hour's hot shots. in india, a farmer plows his field before heavy monsoon rains. in italy, residents await the arrival of pope benedict as he visits areas effected by earthquakes. in california, a photographer captures a los angeles skyline from a movie premier in the hollywood hills. and in england, workers sew par chute material in the oldest hot air balloon factory in europe. hot shots, pictures coming in from around the world. a new york city impersonator is trying to give the furry monster we have come to love as elmo a bad name. jeanne moos looks at his recent central park rant that had children and adults scrambling to get away. >> when you think of elmo, you think of warm, fuzzy hugs, getting kids to eat vegetables. singing happy songs. ♪ la la la la la, elmo's song. >> reporter: this is elmo's curse. a guy dressed as elmo has been ranting in central park, yelling anti-semitic slurs. >> jews will harass you. >> reporter: raid against hindus. >> say [bleep] you hindu. >> reporter: elmo needs his mouthwashed out with soap. >> filthy stinking [bleep]. >> that is the scariest elmo i've ever seen in my life. >> reporter: it was such a weird sight that everyone stopped to take pictures. >> people didn't want their kids to see that coming from elmo. >> reporter: it has been going on for months, documented by videos posted to youtube. watch mom grab her kid. >> [bleep]. >> reporter: it was too much for another performer wearing a drum. he started pushing elmo around. >> do i look like i'm playing with you? go home and stop cursing around kids, man. >> reporter: in times square, a guy dressed at shrek shoed him away and was applauded. but minutes after his rants, elmo cozies up to some unsuspecting kid, characters pose mostly with tourists for money, and there are good elmos out there. so how do you tell good elmos from bad elmo? look for the bag and knee pads. >> reporter: that's for all the kneeling he does with children. this past weekend, things came to a head. tickle me elmo. make that handcuff me elmo. the ruckus he caused prompted police to put on the cuffs, as police led him away, the crowd cheered. aspiring journalist kathleen loftus whipped out her camera in time to capture this. >> his big red feet are popping out. >> reporter: elmo was not arrested, he was taken to the hospital, probably didn't press on his belly. jeanne moos, cnn, new york. >> i guess there was no mugshot. that's it for me. thanks very much for joining us. i am joe johnson in "the situation room." the news continues next on cnn. tonight, campaign rhetoric. major escalation intention between syria and turkey. the turkish military gets new rules of engagement. syria's leader talks of war. the government wants your doctor to worry more about your weight and nudge you into counseling if you need to lose a few. we begin with a bare knuckles day on the campaign trail. in iowa, one of seven states cnn classifies asbestosups. vice president joe biden was in attack mode in a highly personal way, taking aim at mitt romney's tenure at the private he can quit firm bain capital. >> here is the bottom line, folks. bain and their companies, they made a great deal of money facilitating this outsourcing and offshoring american jobs. yeah, they made a lot of money, but in the process, they devastated, they devastated whole american communities. you have to give mitt romney credit, he's a job creator, in singapore, china, india. >> governor romney was in battleground virginia, among the tossup states. >> what we're witnessing is failure of the president's policies. he did not deal with immigration, with regards to obama care, he put that as a higher priority than our economy, and as a result, we have had 40 straight months with unemployment over 8%, the economy is not working, immigration is not working. this president has not been working in the right way for the american people. it is time for that to change. >> president obama is in another tossup, florida. earlier he was in georgia, stopped there to raise money. at that event, he said he has been true to his 2008 promises. >> i wake up every single day and fight as hard as i knew how for you. [ applause ] i fight as hard as i knew how. for all those folks that were doing the right thing out there, all those people who kept the faith with this country, and you know what, i kept that promise. i have kept that promise. i believe in you. i hope you still believe in me. >> busy campaign day. cheap white house correspondent dana young and our political analyst. this is the toughest attack, personal attack from the vice president. he and tomorrow campaign strategist david axelrod along for iowa. >> the president's campaign aides believe they can drive home a powerfully negative message about mitt romney with swing voters by convincing them he is driven to support economic policies that will help the wealthy and not the little guy. that's the bottom line, and key words like outsourcing and layoffs, that they really hit home with swing voters. their basic thrust here is to dispel this motion that because mitt romney was personally successful in the private sector that he is in some way a master of economic policy, and that he could personally turn around the economy, and they think these words outsourcing and layoffs and that his past record on this are really key to making this argument, john. >> and do they worry outsourcing or offshoring part of the global economy for better or worse, do they worry they will sound too anti-business? >> a lot of critics said they sound anti-business and are not just republicans, and his top aides tell me they're not worried about it. they're doubling down on this message. not only did the vice president deliver it and the president has said it to some extent, even the campaign went up with an ad delivering the outsourcing message as well. they're adamant, they want to drive that message that romney is not a master of the economy just because he was personally successful in business. they say that's the theme, not an anti-business theme. >> that's their make it a choice, not a referendum. jim, romney campaign responds to the vice president saying look in the mirror, cited a study that said $1.5 billion of obama stimulus money went to foreign makers of wind turbines. do they think that's good enough or do they think the bain outsourcing attacks could take hold. >> it is interesting, romney campaign responded to those attacks from the vice president in that ad by circulating an article that it checks out, shows the obama campaign sfent thousands on a canadian firm to do calls on behalf of the campaign, telemarketing calls on behalf of the campaign. i am told by a democratic source that the obama campaign and democrats expect to see in the next 24 hours new poll numbers showing bain attacks are working, which explains over the last month we see the bain attacks continue, while the romney campaign can respond saying wait a minute, the obama campaign are guilty are outsourcing as well, a lot of this goes back to the 1974 senate campaign against ted cam knee. they savaged mitt romney in that first run for political office on his private business career at bain capital. during that time period, mitt romney didn't respond forcefully to those attacks, and right now, up until this point, mitt romney has not sat down for an extensive interview to deal with outsourcing questions, other questions about his business career, bain capital. the question becomes as the attacks continue, can he continue that approach, can he keep doing that. you heard him on the attack on healthcare and supreme court case with respect to immigration. he is going to continue to do that, try to tie cases to president obama's inability to get the economy rolling. but at the same time, as long as the obama campaign continues bain attacks, the question becomes at what point does he respond and how. >> are they frustrated that those at the company don't do more? we have seen more from time to time, one tough statement criticizing the president's campaign strategy, but as you know, a lot of romney supporters in bain and obama supporters raising money for the president. i know some democrats are unhappy, but aren't able to speak publicly. does that bother romney? >> i haven't had a chance to ask him that question, he hasn't taken a lot of questions about bain and what his business colleagues feel over there. some have done interviews where they sort of objected to all of the media scrutiny. i will tell you democrats are confident this works. i got a democratic source e-mailing me awhile ago saying that sherrod brown, running in a hotly contested race in ohio, he says let the bain attacks continue. don't listen to cory booker or bill clinton, these are working in ohio because there are working class people in the automotive industry that list tone that message when it comes to the bain attacks and find them effective. so i think they're going to continue. >> jim, thanks so much. gloria, cnn confirmed claire mccaskill, in a tough re-election campaign, will skip the democratic convention. we are at about ten, at least ten democratic governors decided to skip the president's big party in charlotte. that's a modest number taking it as a whole, but high profile people, many in tough re-election campaigns in anti-obama states. eh or some message? >> i think these people don't want to be seen in a high profile embrace of president obama, so like claire mccaskill, they'll be metaphorically washing their hair that night during the democratic convention. look, claire mccaskill in her own defense says look, only in washington would the republican operatives get the entire press corp ginned up over the notion i am going to be home campaigning instead of going to a bunch of worthless parties at a convention that's only going to be held to do something we all know will happen anyway. fair enough. in 2008, claire mccaskill was kind of attached at the hip to president obama, so you've got joe mansion of west virginia, he is far ahead, but barack obama, not popular in that state. john tester, state of montana, very tight campaign, president obama not so popular there either. why would they show up, right? >> i don't want to get into, i understand senator mccaskill's point, time home probably better spent. but one reason vulnerable people show up there, there are a lot of fund-raisers, people to help you raise money. if you're in trouble, you get money. as she said there are no reasons to be there, there are just as many or more reasons to be there. >> there are reasons to be there. all of the big funders are there in one particular place. but if you're afraid of that iconic photograph of you with president obama or you with other top unpopular democrats, maybe harry reid, whatever, you're going to stay away, you may make a point during the democratic convention of being in high profile events in your home state saying i care more about you than i do about high profile democrats. >> i bet you a dollar she's in the southern half. >> i think you're right. >> john mccain carried missouri in 2008, a big democratic year. senator mccaskill probably looked at the numbers telling her the smart thing to do. stay away from the president. >> for the record, it happened to george w. bush, too, with lots of republicans. goes both ways. when you're a president, unpopular in some parts of the country, you've got to expect this. >> happens every cycle. thanks so much. experts want your doctor to start nagging you about something you probably won't want to do, but maybe you should. our own dr. sanjay gupta will be here. and the possibility of a wider conflict in syria. ♪... ♪... ♪... choose the perfect hotel without bidding. would you mind if to be i go ahead of you?omer. instead we had someone go ahead of him and win fifty thousand dollars. congratulations you are our one millionth customer. people don't like to miss out on money that should have been theirs. that's why at ally we have the raise your rate 2-year cd. you can get a one-time rate increase if our two-year rate goes up. if your bank makes you miss out, you need an ally. ally bank. no nonsense. just people sense. delivering mail, medicine and packages. yet the house is considering a bill to close thousands of offices, slash service and layoff over 100,000 workers. the postal service is recording financial losses, but not for reasons you might think. the problem ? a burden no other agency or company bears. a 2006 law that drains $5 billion a year from post office revenue while the postal service is forced to overpay billions more into federal accounts. house bill 2309 is not the answer. ♪ you want to save money on car insurance? no problem. you want to save money on rv insurance? no problem. you want to save money on motorcycle insurance? no problem. you want to find a place to park all these things? fuggedaboud it. this is new york. hey little guy, wake up! aw, come off it mate! geico. saving people money on more than just car insurance. if you're packing on extra pounds, some new recommendations could push your doctor to tell you guess what, go on a diet. the u.s. preventive taskforce, group of independent medical experts supported by the federal government released a report recommending they screen for obesity once a year and rer them to weight loss programs and counseling. good idea? dr. sanjay gupta joins me. is it a good idea, you listen to dr. david grossman, he said some weight loss programs work and often the gateway to finding the right program can be through your physician. a kick in the tail from the doctor, is that the way to do this? >> it can be, but there are a few caveats. hard to believe, one of the points being made that half of doctors don't discuss the issue with their patients at all. so a patient is overweight, obese, doctor doesn't bring it up. it is a message to the medical community as a whole. to your question specifically, what they found that the counseling is intensive, and typically means counseling sessions at least once a month, it can have an impact. person can lose about 6% of their body weight on average. some have more success, others less. 6% on average, which can be significant in terms of reducing risk of heart disease and risk of diabetes. so it can be pretty significant. but a lot of doctors simply aren't trained in this. a lot of patients only see their doctors once a year. what they're suggesting as part of the taskforce is a more intensive engagement with patients that are obese. >> with the link between obesity and diabetes, obesity and heart problems and other issues, it stuns me you say many doctors don't even discuss this. for the doctors that do, they judge you, you get on the scale, get your weight, get your height, and get your body mass index. is that the right way to do this? >> it is not perfect, but the best way probably now. body mass index looking at height and weight. if you're a short person that weighs a lot, you have a high body mass index. if you're tall person, don't weigh as much, probably don't. people that have a lot of muscle mass register high on body mass index but may not have much body fat. a doctor has to use it as a measure, but it is not perfect. i think it is the best they have right now. >> 36% of adult americans are considered obese. heart disease as we mentioned, stroke, type two diabetes, cancer, risk for being overweight. $147 billion spent now on obesity related health care. if new recommendations are followed by most doctors, will costs go up or down? >> in the short term they'll go up probably, but hope is as with a lot of health care, they hope the costs eventually come down. the programs don't come for free. there's not enough primary care doctors to care for the number of patients that want to see their doctor, that shortfall could be more pronounced if you have more insured people, if this law is passed, so i think it is a little of a double edged sword. in the long run, costs money, the hope is if people lose that body weight, if the chronic diseases subsequently decrease, you lower health care costs. it could be more than a decade before you see those cost benefits. >> health care costs are a big thing as we await decision by supreme court. we will get it thursday morning. one of the big questions, will the court say the mandate at the center of the obama health care plan, requirement that all americans, most, go out and get their own health insurance. if that mandate is ruled unconstitutional, what happens in the world of costs and trying to keep the program going. >> i will preface by saying i've been thinking about it. i worked at the white house, talked about this issue in the last decade. so the basic issue is this. if you don't have a mandate, but still require people to provide health care insurance without discriminating because someone is sick and they get charged the same price whether they have illness or don't have illness, what happens, what they're worried will happen at a federal level, already seen it at state level, people won't buy health insurance until they get sick. it would be like calling the car insurance company with your side on the road having just gotten into a wreck. you can imagine it doesn't take a lot of figuring out to see how that raises costs overall. to your point, john, in kentucky, they tried this in 1994. they said there's not going to be a mandate. they are also telling insurance companies you can't discriminate because someone is already sick. they saw everyone's health premiums went up, not just uninsured, everyone with health care insurance, premiums went up by as much as 40%. it is an important point. a lot of people are watching what's happening in washington and say it doesn't apply to me. this isn't about me. i am insured, i am okay. it matters to everybody. >> we will make another house call once we know what the court thinks. >> thanks. the truth about the long distance debate about health care between president obama and romney. next, tropical storm debbie makes landfall. high schools in six states enrolled in the national math and science initiative... ...which helped students and teachers get better results in ap courses. together, they raised ap test scores 138%. just imagine our potential... ...if the other states joined them. let's raise our scores. let's invest in our teachers and inspire our students. let's solve this. i have to know the weather patterns. i upgraded to the new sprint direct connect. so i can get three times the coverage. 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[ chirp ] an accident doesn't have to slow you down... with better car replacement, available only from liberty mutual insurance, if your car is totaled, we give you the money to buy a car that's one model-year newer... with 15,000 fewer miles on it. there's no other auto insurance product like it. better car replacement, available only from liberty mutual. it's a better policy that gets you a better car. call... or visit one of our local offices today, and we'll provide the coverage you need at the right price. liberty mutual auto insurance, responsibility -- what's your policy? i tell mike what i can spend. i do my best to make that work. we're driving safely. and sue saved money on brakes. now that's personal pricing. welcome back. here is mary snow with the latest news you need to know now. hi there. >> hi there, john. tropical storm debbie made landfall over northwest florida this afternoon. parts of the panhandle and big ben got more than two feet of rain before it blows away. thousands of homes are evacuated, parts of interstate 10 is closed. president obama phoned rick scott to be sure help is getting through. near colorado springs, 5,000 are displaced from their homes in a largely uncontained walled oh canyon fire. the flames have charred 4500 acres and threatens the tourist sites, including the summit that inspired the song "america the beautiful." red flag warnings are issued across neighboring states. consumer confidence fell the fourth straight month and more consumers think business conditions will keep getting worse. on a positive side, home prices are up for the first time in seven months. the national average is about what it was in early 2003, but still down one-third from where home prices peaked in 2006. and mac or pc. your answer could determine the price of your next trip. the site orbits shows mac uses more expensive hotels finding they outspend windows users, according to "the wall street journal." orbitz says nobody is charged more for the same room, you can rank hotels always by price. john, goes to show you, everything is being tracked. >> they know everything about you. and they can say they're taking advantage. big brother, big brother, big brother. i don't like it. >> scary. up next, ominous threats from the leaders of syria and turkey. and later, mitt romney's latest attempt to turn the supreme court's immigration ruling into a weapon against president obama. @@ this half hour, the syrian president, bashar al-assad said his country is in a state of word, tough words as tensions with turkey rise higher. mitt romney and the immigration. i ask a strategist why she's frustrated. later, boston boos president obama after he makes a wise crack about the red sox. the white house says you'll get to hear it, your ears may be deceiving you. the leaders of turkey and syria, after a special meeting with nato leaders to discuss the shooting. the turkey prime minister says the military is on alert. >> translator: if there are military instruments or troops from syria coming to the turkish border in the form of threat, they will all be perceived as military threats. >> in damascus, the syrian president, bashar al-assad delivered a blunt message to his cabinet. >>translator: we are in a state of real war, in every aspect of the word. and when we're in a state of war, all our politics has to be concentrated on winning this war. >> just this confrontation with nicholas burns, former undersecretary of the state, and nato, start with that, an organization you know quite well. turks went there appealing for help. what can nato do, what will it do? >> i think what turkey was looking for under article 4 of the nato treaty was a meeting where nato would be united in sending a stark message to the syrian government that what happened last week in syria, shooting down a turkish fighter jet is not happening in the future, the entire alliance, 28 countries rallied around turkey in display of alliance and solidarity. that coupled with the prime minister's blunt message is really a proverbial, rhetorical shot not to do this again. >> there were words, assume it doesn't happen again, does this mean this happened, there are more tough words? plenty of tough words from leaders of the united states and other western leaders, tough words from united nations, but it hasn't changed any of assad's behavior. >> if i were president assad, the statement i would pay attention to is the prime minister's statement that he played in this program. he is a very determined, willful, proud person. this was a carefully worded statement. i took it to mean, john, that if the syrian military uses force against turkish aircraft or soldiers, there will be response by turkey. knowing the turkish government, i would expect them to back up that threat. >> and when you hear president assad saying we are at war, and only one choice, to win that war, what do you make of it? >> i took at the was really referring to the internal war, the civil war in syria itself, where there's an opposition fighting for months now. i think that's what president assad has to worry about. if i were the syrians, i would look at the nato meeting and the prime minister's statement in turkey and i would say it is just not worth it for syria to risk a retaliatory response from turkey in the future. john, what happened today is that nato didn't promise to go to war for turkey, it just promised political support, it is the turkish statement i think is actionable and very important. >> so if assad is careful and syrian forces don't shoot at any more turkish plains and united nations mission is suspended because of security, if they don't have provocation against turkey, can he continue to do what he pleases within his borders? >> well, i think this is a big question that the nato countries, united states and arab countries have to answer in the next month or two. is there any way the international community can prevent use of force by the syrian government against these innocent civilians who are being killed by their own government, and so far, united states and other countries concluded it is not in our interest to go in, it would be too difficult for any number of reasons. as this violence proceeds and civil war intensifies this summer, it is going to be more difficult for the united states and other countries to say we're going to sit on the sidelines, and turkey is a front line state, a bordering country. there's now been a provocation. so the turks of course, the saudis have been very sympathetic, perhaps in assisting the rebel army. i would watch that space as a potential change in this situation this summer. >> appreciate your insights. republican presidential candidate mitt romney on the trail in anniversary today. he spoke for a bit about what he called a busy week for the supreme court. busy, governor romney says, because of president obama's failures. >> i think all their work highlights the leadership failures of our current president. when he was running for office, said he would make it his priority, first year agenda, to reform our immigration system, make it work for the american people and for those that want to come here legally. he did not do that. >> another sharp criticism there from the governor about the president, but is he saying enough about his own views on immigration. joining me cnn contributor ann a navarro, hispanic co-chair for john mccain's campaign. you say you're frustrated. i want to go to the source. you think governor romney should be more clear, specific, direct about what he would do if he wins the election. want to play a bit of an exchange. here is what i think began the frustration. when bob she ever from face the nation tried to get governor romney to answer this question. the president issued a temporary order allowing illegal immigrants to stay in the country and get work permits. if you win the election, what would do you about that. >> well, as you know, he was president for the last three-and-a-half years, did nothing on immigration. >> but would you repeal this? >> well, it would be overtaken by events, if you will, by virtue of my putting in place a long term solution with legislation. >> to make sure i understand it, would you lead this in place while you worked out a long term solution or repeal it. >> we will look at that as we reach that. zble pointed the fijer at barack obama's leadership failures. the president has failed to deliver on his promise to latinos. but that's half the story. the other half is that mitt romney now needs to show leadership. he needs to tell us what he would do. until now, the only specifics i heard on immigration from mitt romney is what he said in the primary, and he said things i did not like. i think he went unnecessarily to the right. he needs to dig himself out of that hole, and he will not do it by perfecting the art of saying nothing. he needs to say something because if not, john, the story becomes less about what he said and more about what he left unsaid. >> let's talk about what he did say yesterday. some people, the governor is cautious sometimes. i think sometimes when he does say something, we don't notice it. supreme court ruled about sb 1070, threw out three provisions, left one in place. governor romney said this in scottsdale. i would have preferred to see the supreme court give more latitude to states, not less. there are states under this decision with let's authority and latitude to enforce immigration laws. he is saying quite a bit there. he is saying he believes states should be able to make these zeegsz, even i assume if he disagrees with what the states want to do. is it that you don't think he is saying enough or is it that you don't agree with what he is saying? >> i think he is not saying enough. i almost, to tell you the truth, i would rather disagree with he's saying but know what he's saying than not know what he's saying. i think the american people deserve to know where he stands on this. he needs to grab the bull by the horns. this is going now beyond immigration and beyond being a latino problem. i think it is showing a lack of leadership. and let's be clear about something. the american people do not like precedents that show equivocation, that show vaccination ladies and gentlemen, that don't show clarity. we don't like folks that speak in ambiguous terms that need a decoder to figure out what's being said. his campaign, for example, told me that he did not say and he has not said and he did not mean that he wanted sb 1070 to be a national model. i would love to hear mitt romney say that himself. i would have loved to have seen him say that yesterday in arizona. it's amazing, john, he was flying to arizona, he landed in arizona, as this was the biggest story of the day, and said nothing on camera, and did not address the issue on camera. we need to see leadership. this is his chance to show spine, to show backbone, to show conviction and to tell the american people what he believes in. >> anna, if a latino friend came up, maybe a republican not afraid to vote for a democrat, maybe an independent, maybe a democrat not terribly happy with president obama, doesn't know what to do, if they said should i vote for mitt romney, what would you tell them? >> i would tell them look, you have two choices and it is your choice to make. you can vote for barack obama who speaks real pretty, says real nice things, tells us all of the things we want to hear and then he doesn't deliver and has is aus 11% unemployment rate or a guy that doesn't tell you what you want to hear. tells us things that are hard to interpret. may have told us things we don't like to hear, not making big promises but a change from what we have. those are the two choices. >> i suspect if anyone at the romney campaign is watching, they'll be in touch with you soon. we will talk to you. 13 three days ahead. appreciate your time and help. coming up here, less than two days from knowing whether president obama's signature health care law would stand or fall. what it could mean on the campaign trail. ( whirring and crackling sounds ) man: assembly lines that fix themselves. the most innovative companies are doing things they never could before, by building on the cisco intelligent network. assure my patients get evthe very best care.ake but look at our health care system. everyone agreed we needed reforms -- but this new health care law -- it just isn't fixing things. president obama promised my patients that they could keep me -- but what if because of this new health care law -- i can't keep them? i've looked at this law. i know the consequences: delayed care and worse yet -- denied care. studies show the president's health care law is projected to add hundreds of billions of dollars to our deficit -- and increase spending by more than a trillion dollars. and the truth is -- we still don't know how much this law will eventually cost. i don't want anything to come between my patients and me -- especially washington bureaucrats. we need real reform that improves care, and the president's health care law just isn't it. it just isn't worth it. this is where health care decisions should be made. not in washington. just about 40 hours, we'll know if the president's signature first term achievement passes its supreme court examination. tonight, we know thanks to an nbc "the wall street journal" poll, 37% will be pleased if they rule that health care plan unconstitutional. 32% would be disappointed. neither president obama or mitt romney know what the justices will decide. both claimed to speak for the majority. >> i understand we don't need to refight this battle over health care, it's the right thing to do. >> and i'm going to get rid of that big cloud of uncertainty, that's hanging over all sorts of small businesses, that want to add unemployment. i am going to get rid of the cloud of obama care, return us to personal responsibility and states' rights as relates to health care. >> if the law is thrown out, it will be a huge defeat for the president. >> the first three-and-a-half years of this president's term will have been wasted on something that hasn't helped the american people. >> now, that's true. the president spent a ton of political capital on the health care fight. it is also true a court ruling that tossed it out will raise tough questions for governor romney. would he push republicans in congress to move immediately to forbid insurance companies dropping patients with pre-existing conditions or push them to make sure younger people can stay on their parents' health care plans a few more years. but there's a bigger political question. will the high court decisions on health care and immigration both polarizing political issues drive the election? truth is, the best guess is probably not as much as it might appear this week. don't get me wrong. the immigration ruling does and health care ruling will raise important policy questions for the country and for its candidates for president. those questions are part of a bigger debate. is the economy recovering or stalling. economic anxiety is the driving force in our politics. if there's any significant change there for better or worse over the next 13 three days, that will shape the race much more than any court ruling. here to talk truth, national journal editorial director and a political analyst. democratic strategist and cnn political contributor, hilary rosen, and former santorum and bok woman spokeswoman, alison stewart. let me start with you, when you look at the "the wall street journal" poll, if the individual mandate is found to be unconstitutional, will it hurt your family, help your family, make no difference. 25% say hurt, 18% say help, 55%, no difference. regardless of your politics, not sure that 55% is right because i have health insurance, thanks to my job. if the mandate is thrown out, whether i am for it or against it is irrelevant, it will effect me, because the market will get a jolt. >> it will have a huge impact on americans across the board. recent polls show about 52% of americans want to see obama care overturned by the supreme court. people don't want the government in between themselves and their doctors, don't want a huge tremendous government overreach. you mention whether this will be a defining issue in the election, the economy is the big issue in this election, and obama care has a big factor on the economy 75% of job creators say is bad for business. nonpartisan cbo says obama care will cost 800,000 jobs a year, it is not just bad health care, it is bad for business and people don't want it. >> how much do you think that health care and immigration ruling, obviously the biggest stories this week in politics, not just in this town. look at the nbc "the wall street journal" poll. have the president's policies helped or hurt the economy. look at the numbers. 33% hurt, 32% helped, 32% not much difference. >> very divided. >> two things. one, on the big narrative, it is possible an issue that hasn't been in a presidential election in a couple years may come back, which is one of the most important thing a president can do is appoint supreme court justices. haven't seen that as a big thing in the last two elections. the other pieces, what alice says, i think the reason we have terrible numbers on obama care as i call it, obama cares, is because the republicans and insurance companies did a really good job tying the current economic woes to this health care bill, which actually has nothing to do about putting doctors between individuals. it is about reigning in insurance companies and what they can do to people and getting more people covered. i think the president ends up with a problem, but i think the republicans have a bigger problem for the reasons you said. what are they going to do when the people who don't want it repealed, who will be hurt, even if it is only 25 or 30% of the country, they're going to be hurt, who's going to help them. >> if gu to the romney website, there's a specific health care page. more specific than most candidates for president. whether you agree or disagree with the politics, i give him credit for being specific. just like oon the temporary immigration policy, what would you do next week if the court says all of it, gone. >> actually, he is specific, but the best estimates, the core idea that romney has is to make individual purchase of health insurance tax deductible for those without coverage. best estimates cbo has done is that would have a minimal impact on number of uninsured. we have 50 million uninsured today. the projection is without this law, 60 million. by 2020, may be even higher. this would only shave it by 3 or 4 million. this is really one of the core differences here. as a country, can we afford to do this or not. cover the uninsured. political goal, policy for the democrats since the 1940s. a key goal to convince the middle class government can do something positive for them, they failed on selling that message. never got a majority to say this would be good for me and my family. at their best, even split on what's good for the country. >> we will continue the conversation. erin burnett at the top of the hour. erin, is it true, congress is going to maybe delay decision? >> woe, that would be breaking news of epic proportions. we are talking about sequestration. everyone knows the $1.2 trillion are purposely designed to be awful. doesn't immediate we don't need to cut 1.2 trillion, just where it was cut was supposed to be awful. now it appears congress is having conversations that could delay those cuts all together. we are joined by super committee senator toomey about whether that's going to happen, what the alternatives are. plus, i love mcdonald's fries and cheese burgers, but i pay for it the next two days after i eat them. you will be interested to see what incredibly amazing athletic talent is sponsored by mcdonald's. the largest mcdonald's in the world is being built. >> i love the french fries, i also call them the gateway drug. of the bag. >> that's so not fair. always one more in the bottom of the bag. isn't there? >> there's one for you. a little stub. >> i got a pen, you got a fry. great. you win again. all right, erin, we will see you in a few minutes. enjoy the fries. big ben gets a new name. what prompted the name change for the famous tower. and my hometown. don't poke fun at the red sox. what president obama said that made some of his own supporters start booing. ♪ [ male announcer ] ok, so you're no marathon man. but thanks to the htc one x from at&t, with its built in beats audio, every note sounds amazingly clear. ...making it easy to get lost in the music... and, well... rio vista?!! 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[ spokesman ] when you refinance your mortgage with quicken loans, you'll find that our rates and fees are extremely competitive. because the last thing you want is to spend too much on your mortgage. one more way quicken loans is engineered to amaze. ♪ ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] you've been years in the making. and there are many years ahead. join the millions of members who've chosen an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company. go long. 133 days until you decide who gets to be the president of the united states come 2013. brand-new poll from the "wall street journal" tells us we have a close race. obama 47, romney 44. wow. that's about as close as you can get. alice stewart still with us, and hillary rosen with me. alice, when you look at the number, the president is leading, but that's a statistical tie. to you, what is the critical thing for governor romney to do to reverse the number to put him on top? >> well, continue doing what he's been doing and focusing on the economy. that's the 73% of americans say the number-one issue in this election is the economy. and they trust that governor romney is the candidate that will be able to turn things around and create jobs. we have president obama has an abysmal record. his policies have failed to make things better for the american people. we have 23 million americans out of work, housing foreclosures up, more adult children moving back home with their parents. this is not the economy that people want. and owe governor romney's policies will be able to turn things around. >> is that a good number for bad number? you always say if you're the incumbent, you want to be above 50. we elect presidents state by state. is the glass half empty, half full? >> there will be some good battleground numbers out of that. let's stay optimistic. i think right now it's probably a good poll. if everything alice just said were true, romney would be way ahead. and he's not. and i think that's for two reasons. number one, i think that people are still giving president obama the benefit of the doubt. because things have gotten better, as he said. but you know, not good enough. and they know hes it's not good enough. and the second thing is, everybody laughs at these, you know, attacks on capital or whether or not there's this divide who is for the middle class and who is for the wealthy. i think that's sticking. and so these -- you know, these unemployed folks or these independents who are undecided and unhappy, you know, are not so sure that mitt romney is their guy. because he's not for them. >> the obama campaign is spending the gross national product of some countries every month on polling. so i assume they wouldn't be doing these things if they didn't see some evidence they either are or can work over time. so if this a competitive race like this, why senator claire mccastel who was velcroed to the president saying i don't want to go to the convention? >> it's a misperception. modern politics, you can run, but you can't hide. the level of -- share of voters split their ticket today between a presidential candidate of one party and a senate candidate of the other is at the lowest level since 1960. in 2010, obama's approval rating was at 48% or above in ten states with senate race. democrats won nine. he was at 47 or below in 15. republicans won 13 of those 15. these candidates are linked to him. and his success, whether they like it or not. >> earlier today, i said i thought this was a dis, that senator mccast ankle is doing. but she clarified two things. one, she invited the president to come to missouri. she said she would stand with him. and when she was running for governor, you know, in 2004, she didn't go to the convention either. i don't think this has much -- >> john, i disagree. we're seeing more and more democrats distancing themselves from the president. and mchaskell was one of the main supporters of obama in '08 if you go back and look, there was a get out the vote video where she said this country needs obama to help our economy. right now we need governor romney for our economy. and the democrats realizing that linking themselves to the president is not going to help them or this country. >> i've got to call a time-out now. we'll continue this conversation and give senator mchaskell a chance to come here if she wants to explain herself any time. thanks, hillary, ron, alice. hillary snow is back. >> hey, john. tough senators reached a deal on freezing student loan rates for another year. majority leader harry reid and mcconnell announced, they figured out how to keep the loans from doubling to 6.8%. the deal still has to make its way through the house. but a spokesman for speaker john boehner says he'll take a look. the white house is defending president obama's decision on executive privilege against attorney eric holder. it says past presidents have is done the same thing. house oversight committee chairman darrell issa is slamming the president for not turning over documents related to the bat to the botched fast and furious situation. a new nickname for london's popular landmark. big ben will be renamed elizabeth tower after the queen. david cameron says the change is a fitting recognition of her service of 60 years. nice gesture, not sure it's going to take. >> they have to redo the chevy chase movie, "vacation." elizabeth clock, parliament. never mind. tonight's moment you may have missed. president obama poking fun at my red sox. and in boston. here's what happens. here's what happens. listen. >> i just want to say, thank you for youkilis. [ laughter and booing ]

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