we should address? >> not really, no. you're a politician. >> yeah. okay. i'm being pulled away. you know, we turned down another interview for this. >> where are you going? you're leaving? absolutely extraordinary, dare i say it, surreal moment. christine o'donnell, one-time tea party darling walks out of my studio rather than answering straightforward questions. you've heard all about the fuss. and if you missed it, tonight we're going to reair the whole interview all over again. i'm going to get some of the smartest people in politics and media to weigh in with their verdict. was it christine's day? or was it mine? >> all right. are we off? are we done? >> i'm not. i'm still here. decide for yourself. this is "piers morgan tonight." good evening, i'm here in san diego where i'm doing an interview with presidential hopeful jon huntsman and that will air at monday night 9:00 p.m. eastern. but right now tonight, it's all about the scandal involving me and christine o'donnell and that interview and that walkout. we thought it'd be a good idea to bring you up to speed by getting correspondent joe john to do a wrapup of what's going on over the last 48 hours since she memorably left the studio. it would appear that the interview has just been ended. >> reporter: it's amazing what walking off the set of a national prime time tv show can do for someone who is trying to sell a book based on a losing senate campaign. >> i'm just asking you questions based on your own public statements and now what you've written in your own book. it's hardly rude to ask you that, surely. >> well, don't you think as a host, if i say this is what i want to talk about, that's what we should address? >> not really, no. you're a politician. >> yes. yeah. okay, i'm being pulled away. you know, we turned down another interview for this. >> where are you going? >> reporter: for one thing, after christine o'donnell walked off the set, she didn't have to talk much more about the campaign or the book. but now she's trying to make it all about the talk show host. telling a fox station that what got her upset was not piers' question about gay marriage but the line of questioning about sex in general. >> he had a decidedly inappropriate line of questioning leading up to that that, many people, what the bloggers are saying is borderline creepy. i was not there to talk about sex and he would not stop trying to talk about sex. >> reporter: then there are the tweets. piers, thanks for the invite. schedule is already packed. maybe another night. no hard feelings, you cheeky bugger. the whirlwind media blitz peaking today on nbc's "today." >> you know, he put me in a position that was very awkward and very uncomfortable and we were late. getting the wrapup signal off camera because we had a roomful of republican women and c-span waiting for me, and the interview was over and he wasn't letting go because he needs the ratings, which is why he's exaggerating what happened. i didn't storm off. his sound person is the one who took off my mike. >> reporter: and who was that that stepped in front of the camera? she says it was one of her staffers. for all the tension here, this is plain old-fashioned buzz building. the likes of which o'donnell probably hasn't seen since the political ad that propelled her to fame, or perhaps infamy. >> i'm not a witch. >> reporter: and while she claims it's all about the ratings for the talk show host, few would deny the real ratings boost would only come after christine o'donnell's call to take off the mike. joe johns, cnn, washington. >> trying to explain all this is editor at large at media and founder of change the ratio, senior writer for ""time" magazine" and gloria allred. i've been charged with sexism, am i guilty? >> piers, in this instance you are definitely not guilty. i thought your questions were appropriate. certainly germane and i still can't understand why she chose that particular moment to walk out, but in this case, no. you're doing okay. >> well, it's a relief, obviously. and when you watched it, i mean, it seemed to me she was perfectly comfortable and was joking and laughing about the earlier exchanges, which she now claims were so offensive. it was the direct question about gay marriage, which got her to leave the set. and i got the distinct feeling in that moment it's because she felt uncomfortable giving any kind of answer. did you think that? >> that was the impression i got as well. you showed the clip, referencing her former stance against masturbation and it was the gay marriage she didn't want to address because it would have engaged actual policy. >> let me bring in james. what was your view as a man? we've all been guilty in the past of sexism in some form, did you think i was crossing a line? >> speaking for all men, i absolve you from sexism on this as well. we had a conclave and reached that agreement. i can understand if christine o'donnell were sensitive on this point, because from what memories of her campaign that i haven't refrpressed, there was fair amount -- there was some sexist coverage back then. and i don't think that the general point about the way that women candidates are sometimes treated and treated on gender issues and sex related political issues, you know, there are elements of that. and there have been in the past around her. >> what i would say to that is i interviewed mitt romney recently. i'm here in san diego today having just interviewed jon huntsman. i asked both of those gentlemen about their view on gay marriage and had they made public statements on television shows about dabbling in satanic witchcraft or saying that masturbation is a sin and should be avoided, i think i would have asked them if they'd written this all in a new book and covered it again, i would have asked them the same questions. i mean, just to remind everybody, she was on this show to promote a new book, an autobiography in which she talks about all the issues i raised. i don't see how you can possibly promote a book and then simply refuse to answer questions about the content of the book, and more than that, accuse a host, who has the audacity to ask you, of being creepy, sexist and harassing you. what do you think, james? >> i -- i think that's probably -- i think it's probably true, that if you're going out to promote a book you should be willing to talk about the book. and i, you know, you know, i join the members of this panel that you have accepted in approving your behavior in that interview. i will say this, it's a bit bizarre we're now on the third day of round the clock intensive piers morgan coverage of the piers morgan interview of christine o'donnell. >> i suppose my response would be she was on "the today show" this morning making pretty serious allegations about me and my integrity as a host and journalist, calling me creepy, sexually harassing her and all this kind of thing. i think under those circumstances i've got no choice but to respond and to fend my honor and that of cnn. because i felt the questioning was completely appropriate. >> i think the larger issue here is the way christine o'donnell has torn a page from the playbook sarah palin made famous which is the media exists to promote the platform that i want to advance. i do not have to answer questions that i do not wish to address. i do not have to say anything specific about policy, and when i feel like i've been backed into a corner i will lash out against the media. that is sort of textbook sarah palin. christine o'donnell took a page from that during her campaign, and she's doing it again here. so that, to me, is the larger danger of blowing this off as one small specific example. it's a rather new phenomenon of public figures thinking that the media only exists to provide them with a platform and not to actually vet them and kick the tires. >> i agree. and, gloria, you're the one i'm really fearful of because you are the legendary attorney here. did i breach her civil rights? was i a sexist pig? what's your damning verdict? >> well, piers, i do represent probably more sexual harassment victims than any other attorney in the country, and i will say this. not guilty. you are not guilty of sexual harassment. first of all, i'm really, really upset with her. i practically lunged out of my seat and into the television screen when i was watching the interview. and the time by the way later that she accused you of so-called borderline sexual harassment. first of all, it's not severe, it's not pervasive and it was not most of all unwelcome, which is what is needed for sexual harassment. she not only welcomed it, she has begun the conversation many years ago, continuing in the book, about sexual behavior. so this is nonsense, and i really resent, and i'm angry, when anyone claims sexual harassment when they were not truly a victim of it. it's like the boy who cried wolf. and then when true victims of sexual harassment are harassed and say they were, no one's going to believe them, because it's been so diluted. so, christine, you need to take that back. that was wrong. even if you were saying it to promote your book, you shouldn't be trying to make a profit out of increasing your numbers, your profit by accusing piers morgan of sexual harassment. that's wrong. >> yeah, i actually do feel it was a bit of a cheap shot and under any other circumstances, borderline actionable, to quote one of her phrases. to accuse someone of sexually harassing you when they're actually asking you about stuff you've written in a book that you are there promoting i found just completely ridiculous. let me come back to you, james -- >> also, you're not her employer. >> well, that's sexist, piers. frankly. >> james, back to you. >> yeah, you know, i'm not going to dispute anything that was just said there. i will say i think somebody has to make the point that, yes, christine o'donnell was promoting a book here. i think it's also possible for, you know, a couple of parties in this action to benefit from this promotion, and i think there's a certain -- i think it may be redowns a bit to piers morgan and cnn's benefit that we're all on here talking about, you know, this controversy that apparently everyone's talking about, piers morgan, he's dangerous. he's cheeky, watch out. who's going to walk off next? well -- >> well, i'm not going to deny that. >> this isn't quite the nixon/frost moment, you know, it's being played on on this channel presently. >> let me -- let me take it on the chin. >> as well, to have this conversation, because the public then needs to have an understanding and has a better understanding of what truly is sexual harassment or is not sexual harassment. and knows who is doing it and who is accusing people of doing it without any true basis whatsoever. >> and more broadly, to have a recognition that not just harassment but that there are double standards, that there are instances where women are treated differently in the media and are, you know, treated as sexual objects or there are lines that are crossed. and in this case it's very clear that piers did nothing wrong. but in terms of covering the media and certainly flashbacks of the 2008 election and primary and coverage of hillary clinton are coming up, so there are often issues. and it's good to be aware of them and to address them as they come up. >> well, i think there are good issues to come out of this, agree with gloria. you've got to be careful when you use phrases of sexual harassment over such trivial issues as this. there's a bigger issue about politicians who want their cake and eat it too, choose what they want to talk about and won't talk about. that's unacceptable. and i plead guilty this has been very good for me, for my show, for ratings, and if there are any other politicians who want to walk in and walk out under ridiculous circumstances as these, i'm your man. thank you very much for coming on, and long may we all be talking about me. when we come back, we'll reair the entire interview between christine o'donnell and me. for anyone who missed it the first time or is still unsure about exactly what was said and the context in which it was said. here it comes, warts and all, unedited for your eyes only, after the break. ♪ [ male announcer ] they'll see you...before you see them. cops are cracking down on drinking and riding. drive sober, or get pulled over. happened to come across quicken loans online. 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[ male announcer ] hurry into crabfest at red lobster and savor 3 crab entrees under $20 like our crab and seafood bake... or our snow crab and crab butter shrimp. my name's jon forsythe and i sea food differently. two of the most important are energy security and economic growth. north america actually has one of the largest oil reserves in the world. a large part of that is oil sands. this resource has the ability to create hundreds of thousands of jobs. at our kearl project in canada, we'll be able to produce these oil sands with the same emissions as many other oils and that's a huge breakthrough. that's good for our country's energy security and our economy. is best absorbed in small continuous amounts. only one calcium supplement does that in one daily dose. new citracal slow release... continuously releases calcium plus d for the efficient absorption my body needs. citracal. i've been conductingibili conductingibiliticonductingibi u are views withpublic figures for 25 years. i've her had anyone walk out on me until wednesday night when christine o'donnell left the studio stage left. we thought it'd be a good idea to reair the whole thing in its entirety, unedited so you can make your own mind up if i was as she claims, creepy, inappropriate and bordering on sexually harassing her. christine o'donnell, how are you? >> i'm doing well. good to see you, piers. >> i couldn't help but notice you did a sign of the cross as you sat down there. are you a bit nervous about the interview or? >> i do that off camera. i didn't realize you were watching. i do that just because before i -- ever since my very first tv interview i just pray. you know, ask for god's blessing on what i'm about to say. >> well, i was quite relieved. i was expecting some sort of devil worshipping sign. here's your book "troublemaker" and what i was struck by is a description on the back, a quote from you. they call us whacky, they call us wing nuts. we call us the people. i've met lots of people who are wacky and wing nuts. you can be both, can't you? >> oh, yeah, it's an exciting time right now what's going on in the political establishment and the political process right now, but that's a quote from my introduction which is a quote from a speech that i gave reminding the reader, reminding the audience, that as the establishment pushed back and say they're extremists, don't listen to them, i remind them they said the very same thing about our founding fathers. they said the very same thing about the ab lishennists who wanted to end slavery, they're unrealistic, naive about the establishment in the political process. but these folks were committed to a vision, they were committed to the greater good and they sack filrificed and they didn't up. and they turned these bad times in american history into major breakthroughs. and, you know, the foreign press corps has called this time the second american revolution. and we need to keep moving forward and remember that if we want to enjoy the same fate as the first american revolution, we have to not listen to the name-calling and the harassment and the malignment that they might throw our way. >> you certainly got plenty of that. you were this star of the midterm elections, you were the hottest thing the tea party had produced in probably ever at the time, and then it all went horribly wrong, didn't it and you got hammered all over the place. >> yeah. >> when you look back on it, what was the thing you look back for not your downfall but your hiccup? >> i like the way you say it's a hiccup, thank you for minimizing that. >> my pleasure. >> but i think it's a combination of things, and you can't point to any one thing, but rather a perfect storm. and it started with the fact that our party wouldn't unite. the day that i won the primary, you had major national republican figures going on national television, slamming me. when instead, what we needed to do is what they did in kentucky, where they, you know, mitch mcconnell railed against rand paul, but as soon as he won the primary, this he were arm in arm saying, let's take this guy to the finish line, and the strength of that united party is what ultimately won a victory. we had none of that in delaware. instead, as soon as i won the primary, you had, you know, the white house, barack obama personally came to delaware to campaign against me. you had of course the whole democratic machine coming against me, slamming me, and then i had my own party, you know, some of those ousted leaders were actually telling people to vote for my democratic opponent. so it was a very heavy lift for a grassroots, mostly volunteer-based campaign. and without the strength of the united party, it was difficult. and then of course, as i admit in the book, we made certainly a lot of mistakes, some of those were self-inflicted wounds, as i admit that i definitely regret. >> listen, why don't we just jumped in there. >> okay. >> and remind you. i'm sure you'll be thrilled about this. i'll remind you of one of the self-inflicted wounds. so have a little look at this. >> i dabbled into witchcraft, i never joined a -- >> wait a minute, you were a witch? >> i didn't join it, let's get this straight. >> wait. i love this. you go, i was a witch. wait a minute. >> that's exactly why, because -- >> how were you a witch? >> because i dabbled into witchcraft, i hung around people who were doing these things. >> having fun? >> i'm not making this stuff up, i know what they told me they do. and. >> wait, i want to hear about this. >> one of my first dates with a witch was on a satanic altar and i didn't know it. there's a little blood there and stuff like that. >> a date? >> yeah. i went to a movie and had a little midnight picnic. >> what was that, a sacrifice? >> my first date was with a satanic ritual. >> did bill maher pay you to play his show? again, as i painstakingly detail in the book, it was a different time in my life and perhaps i was a little too candid for television, but my goal wasn't to go on the show just for the sake of going on national television. i went on the show to try to reach a younger audience with a message that, you know, when i was 16, by the way, this was 25 years ago, you know, i, too, was trying to find my way in the world. and ultimately i did. and you know, people have said do you regret making those comments, and i go into detail about what my thinking was. but the more self-inflicted wound was how we chose to respond. and the ad was a big mistake. >> that brings me -- yeah, that brings me -- >> oh, don't tell me you're going to play that ad. >> i'm afraid we are. >> oh. >> let's have a look at how you made a small problem ten times worse. >> i'm not a witch. i'm nothing you've heard. i'm you. none of us are perfect, but none of us can be happy with what we see all around us. politicians who think spending, trading favors and back room deals are the ways to stay in office. i'll go to washington and do what you do. i'm christine o'donnell, and i approve this message. i'm you. >> you see, the weird thing to me watching those two clips is on the first clip you seem like a fairly naive, if you don't mind me saying, slightly silly young woman who's having a bit of fun about witchcraft. >> right. right. >> in the second one you look like a witch. you look really creepy. and so oddly, i'm starting to believe you might be a witch, when i saw this creepy commercial. >> it was -- you know, as i write in the book, as soon as i saw that line, i said i don't want to do this. this is the wrong direction. what our campaign ads should be doing instead is highlighting who i am now, what my platform and position is, the reason why democrats, independents and republicans are getting behind my campaign, and we didn't go that route. and we should have gone on the offensive and start to expose the many lies my opponent was saying about his own record. but instead, you know, i -- i didn't listen to my gut. and i tell that story, and i relive it as embarrassing as it is, to watch it and -- but i do so so that perhaps the reader can relate and might have confidence in their own gut. because the mistake that i made was that, you know, it was my gut, and the instincts of many disenfranchised voters in delaware who got us through such a tremendous victory in the primary, and then what did i do? after we won the primary? i listen to the so-called experts, who had been losing election after election. so again, i try to tell that story so that the reader might have confidence going forward, propelling the second american revolution, to listen to your gut. and the experts aren't always experts. >> well, here's the thing. you and i -- we had a little tea party in new york soon after your departure from the political stage, we had a breakfast where i taught you how to make proper english breakfast tea. >> right. >> making the tea party tea, had a certain irony to it, and i remember thinking at the time at least you were pretty positive about all this, you seemed to have worked out where you'd gone wrong and i thought we'll see more of that lady going forward. and now we have a situation where the tea party is becoming ever more credible, ever more popular. we have sarah palin, michele bachmann and others leading the charge here. i would have thought there's a pretty good chance you could make a pretty good move back to the political stage, isn't it? >> well, i hope to stay in the political arena. maybe not necessarily as a candidate or in an elected office, but i wrote this book so that it can be, you know, not just a tell-all or setting the record straight, while trust me there's plenty of juicy gossip in it, but i close the book with what i hope to be a practical application about how people can get involved, and with what i think are the policy solutions we need to engage moving forward. i have a whole chapter that i call the freedom food chain where i talk about what the proper role of government should be, and i call for a radical ideological reawakening of the principles that made our country great. and it's republicans and democrats who have had a grave departure from those principles and we need to get back on track. and i'm glad that you see that the tea party is credible. because i believe that the tea party is at a crossroads. and the fact that the balanced budget amendment was such a huge part of the debate, and we didn't just raise the debt ceiling blindly as we have done in the past, is completely credited to the impact of the tea party movement. so what do we have as a response? instead of congratulating them for this wonderful impact and bringing common sense solutions back to the political process -- >> but the problem, if i may just jump in, yes, you are credited with not having the debt ceiling raised but at the same time you were credited with total paralysis in washington. i think there's an emerging credibility for the tea party. >> right. >> but there's also an emerging issue about can it continue as a party to be ever more forceful, but don't do anything to compromise. that is going to paralyze america. >> well, that is why i say the tea party is at a cross roads and i don't think that compromise is the issue. i think we have to not, not take the bait, as we have joe biden calling us terrorists and extremists. again, remember, they said that about the abolitionists. our whole economic system rested on the slave trade. and they were wrong headed establishment minded arguments and we have to remember again, they tried to say the same thing about the founding fathers at the birth of our country, and they're trying to do the same thing now. because the reality is, our country is going bankrupt. our country is on the brink of collapsing. our economy, our currency is being deval oohued. we need real solutions. we need to get back in a very radical way to the principles on which our country was founded. if your family got in such a difficult economic situation such -- you know, such an overextension of your finances, you're not going to continue to go to the country club, you're going to not -- you're not going to take these elaborate vacations to martha's vineyard, you're going to have drastic cuts in your family's budget so you can get back on track. and it means downsizing. that's exactly what we have to do right now, because this is very serious. we might not continue in the next couple years. it's a very serious situation that we're in. >> okay. well, we're going to discuss this further after the break. we're also going to talk to you about sex, you'll be pleased to know. >> great. when we come back, it will be part two of my extraordinary encounter with christine o'donnell and this, trust me, is where the real fireworks start. 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[ male announcer ] new bayer advanced aspirin. extra strength pain relief. twice as fast. test our fast relief. love it, or get your money back. we need to address sexuality with young people. and masturbation is part of sexuality but it is important to discuss this from a moral point of view. >> the bible says that lust in your heart is committing adultery. so you can't masturbate without lust. the reason you don't tell them it's the answer to aids and all these other problems that come with sex outside of marriage is because, again, it is not addressing the issue. >> that was on the mtv special "sex in the '90s." i'm going to ask you a ge i don't ask most of my guests, do you still think masturbation is wrong? >> let's not go there. >> you went there. >> i address it at that time in my life. my goal was to reach out to young people and there was a show "sex in the '90s" on mtv where it touted the philosophy that anything goes. and there's no doubt i don't think anyone would disagree there's a little bit of a crisis when it comes to whether it's aids or sexually transmitted diseases or teenage pregnancies. so my goal at the time was to reach out to young people and try to present a view of sexuality that they weren't getting. and again, i go into detail about where i was at that time in my life and why i chose to go on that show and do that interview. >> sure, i get all that. but your views on sex and stuff are relevant if you're going to be a politician. >> well, they're not, because there aren't laws outlawing sex. and if there are, they should be on the local level as i make the case for local control, as opposed to federal control. >> so, am i right in assuming your views have evolved over the years? >> well, i am a practicing catholic, and i support what the catholic church teaches, but, you know, would i as a -- i was about to say my age, but as an older woman, go on that show again? no. i wouldn't go on that show again, and nor would i choose to do an interview about that subject again. again, it was a different time in my life. i was excited and passionate about this new belief that i had had, this new faith that i'd found and i was eager to share it with my peers. >> but are you still a supporter of total abstinence, even if you're on your own? >> are you the promastubation talk show host? >> yes. why not. >> good for you for taking that stand. >> if the option is to be the anti, i think i'd be in the pro department, yes. and i'm not afraid to say so. so over to you, miss o'donnell. >> well, what i'm going to do and what my goal is now is to fight for the freedom of speech in america that allows you to say that. i mean, that's what's my focus right now, is to fight for the constitutional principles that made our country great, because we do have a movement in washington that is completely abandoning it, and -- >> can i ask you, have you -- have you committed lust in your heart and, therefore -- >> let's not -- let's not even go there. let's get the conversation back to the book. that's why i'm here. >> yeah, but this is -- to me it's a natural extension to ask you for example. very relevant questions of any politician. for example. >> i address it all in the book. >> what is your view of gay marriage, for example? >> well, i address that stuff in the book. >> you can't keep -- you're only here to promote the damn book, so you can't keep saying it's all in the book, you've got to repeat some of it. >> i am here to talk about the book. >> yes, i'm talking about the book. you keep saying it's in the book. >> why don't you ask me about the chapter called our follower in chief where i criticize barack obama? you know, why don't we talk about -- >> because right now i'm curious -- right now i'm curious on whether or not you support gay marriage. >> you're borderline being a little bit rude. you know i -- >> really? >> i obviously want to talk about the issues that i choose to talk about in the book. >> do you answer that question in the book? >> i talk about my religious beliefs, yeah. i absolutely do. >> do you talk about gay marriage in the book? >> what relevance is that right now? is there a piece of legislation -- i mean, i'm not voting on anything. >> michele bachmann's views and others, it's obviously a highly contentious political issue, i'm just curious what your view is. you keep saying it's in the book so i'm bemoussed to not just say it. >> because i don't think it's relevant. it's not a topic i choose to embrace, it's not what i'm championing right now. i've been there, done that, gone down that road. right now, what i'm trying to do is to promote a book that i hope to be a very inspirational story to people who are part of the tea party movement so they can continue, you know, in this movement to bring america back to the second american revolution. that's my goal. that's my focus right now. >> so would you agree with michele bachmann that we should maybe repeal don't ask, don't tell? should we restore that? >> i'm not talking about policies, i'm not running for office. ask michele bachmann what she thinks. ask the candidates who are running for office what they think. >> why are you being so weird about this? >> i'm not being weird about this, piers. i'm not running for office. i'm not promoting a legislative agenda, i'm promoting the policies that i lay out in the book that are mostly fiscal, that are mostly constitutional. that's why i agreed to come on your show. that's what i agreed to talk about. i'm not being weird, you're being a little rude. >> i think i'm being rather charming and respectful. i'm just asking you questions based on your own public statements and now what you've written in your own book. it's hardly rude to ask you that, surely. >> well, don't you think as a host if i say this is what i want to talk about, that's what we should address? >> not really, no. >> yes. >> you're a politician. >> okay. i'm being pulled away. you know, we turned down another interview for this. >> where are you going? you're leaving? >> well, i was supposed to be speaking at the republican women's club at 6:00 and i chose to be a little late for that, not to be, you know -- >> wrap it up. >> yeah. not to endure rude talk show hosts, but to talk to you about my book and to talk about the issues that i address in my book. have you read the book? >> yes, but these issues are in your book. that's my point. you do talk about them. >> okay. all right. are we off? are we done? >> he's still there. >> i'm not. i'm still there. >> he says he still wants to talk to you. >> well -- >> it would appear that the interview has just been ended, because i have the audacity to ask questions based on stuff that's in this book. anyway, it's a good book, it's called "troublemaker," i think we now know why it's called "troublemaker." >> troublemaker, indeed. when i come back, i want to talk about the one issue that i think triggered her departure and that was gay marriage. 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"the new york times," frank, am i missing something here? it seems to me christine o'donnell walked out of the interview at the precise moment i confronted her about a big issue of the day, the issue of same-sex marriage. and she's now pretending it was something else. but when you watched it, what did you think? >> i mean, i thought it was odd that she walked off, but what i saw was someone doing what i see too many politicians doing today, which is deciding at this moment in time a kind of thing i've talked about in the past no longer serves me, no longer interests me, so i'm going to divert the conversation a completely different way. we've recently seen michele bachmann say my views are known about questions like gay marriage that she's engaged in the past, because it's not convenient for her to talk about them now. that's what christine o'donnell was doing. it's not convenient for me now, it's not what i want to do now, so i'm not going to do it. i was particularly amused when she said you're the host, i'm the guest, i get to do what i want to do. it's not a dinner party, it's a news show. >> well, exactly, and i felt that was a particularly fatuous argument of many. i felt in the moment she didn't want to give any comment about same-sex marriage for the precise reason that it's no longer quite a bigger vote winner for a republican tea party candidate as it may have been two years ago. and i think they're beginning to realize this, that bigotry is beginning to go out of fashion, i'm afraid. >> right, but you can't just decide something that i've crusaded about, not the christine o'donnell crusaded about gay marriage in particular, but she certainly associated with sexually conservative positions. you can't decide that doesn't serve me so well anymore so i'm going to wipe clean that part of my record and say let's talk about other things. if you're in the arena of politics you have to answer for your entire record over time. and in christine o'donnell's case, one of the reasons she is famous or notorious or whatever word you want to use is because she has taken such sexually conservative positions like about masturbation. so that's why she has an invitation on your show. that's why she's a newsmaker. she can't cut that whole part of herself off from the discussion and expect to sit in news programs and have an invitation. >> just to remind everybody, christine o'donnell has said in the past that gay people suffer from an identity disorder. today, when she was asked again about gay marriage she said that her position on same-sex marriage is it states churches have the right to handle such issues for themselves. what do you make of those two comments? >> that doesn't sound entirely consistent. i think we're seeing in society the opinions about gay marriage changing so rapidly that i think politicians who once got a lot of traction with a very anti-gay, anti-gay marriage stance are now softening, changing the discussion. i think it's no longer convenient and so they no longer want to sound distrident about it. >> i think the debate is wider than me having a spat with christine o'donnell is the tea party candidates or politicians who now seem very, very, i wouldn't say unwilling, but certainly wary of repeating comments they said in the past on these issues, because they can sense the changing mood that you alluded to. >> the person to bring up here, the important analogy here is michele bachmann. a lot of her political career before she was a presidential candidate was a crusade against gay marriage. she was famous for that in minnesota. and now when she gets the question on news shows, now that she's trying to tack to the center and get the republican nomination she says my views are known, i don't want to talk about that. you can't do that. when you're in the political arena, when you're asking people to give you an important leadership position, you have to own up to everything you've done in the past and you have to explain why you feel the way you do. >> i completely agree. thanks very much, frank. >> thank you. coming up after the break, an exclusive preview of my sit-down interview with presidential hopeful jon huntsman. [ male announcer ] this is the network. a network of possibilities. excuse me? my grandfather was born in this village. [ automated voice speaks foreign language ] [ male announcer ] in here, everyone speaks the same language. ♪ in here, forklifts drive themselves. no, he doesn't have it. yeah, we'll look on that. [ male announcer ] in here, friends leave you messages written in the air. that's it right there. [ male announcer ] it's the at&t network. and what's possible in here is almost impossible to say. muammar gadhafi could be preparing to make a last stand in libya. u.s. officials fear this could include a military offensive against civilians. we have reporters on the ground in tripoli and outside the city. what a campaign to take tripoli could look like from retired commander general wesley clark syrian ambassador of the u.n. claimed on this program last night that world has it wrong, that security forces are actually protecting protestors, not shooting them. tonight we'll hear from a syrian who was in a crowd today when he was fired upon. those stories and an updating on the missing american in aruba, robyn gardner. and more piers morgan in a moment. ee®? only superpages®. wherever you are, wherever you're going, you'll find the super business you need. so next time, let the good guys save the day. get the superguarantee®, only at superpages®. in the book ... on your phone or online. on monday my exclusive interview with john huntsman, the republican candidate. we conducted it here in san diego and it's pretty explosive. hear his views about his other republican candidates, particularly what the tea party members are up to and what he this of how they behaved over the debt deal. >> i thought its with the height of irresponsibility. the height of irresponsibility where 25% of the world's gdp, the united states of america that has never defaulted before just let it go over a cliff. you can imagine what the marketplace would have done in response. then the marketplace is trashing everybody right now. i mean, assets are underwater, 401 ks, retirements, you can only imagine what this country would look like today if we had defaultded. it was complete lunacy. >> do you have sympathy for barack obama who's been a friend of yours personally? do you have sympathy for him in the position he found himself in where you have such an intransgent part of the republican party really just refusing to compromise? >> he appointed me and i stood up and took the appointment to serve my country. i love this country. you serve her. but in terms of any personal relationship, there's not a personal relationship. you work for your president when you're asked to serve. he had 2 1/2 years to get this country right. he had 2 1/2 years to do the most important thing demanded by the american people. fix the economy. create an environment that is con dues tentative job growth. and he's failed us. he's a good man, he's earnest. but he has failed us on the most important issue of our day. >> that's jon huntsman, a surprisingly revealing interview on monday. we'll be right back. 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[ both ] ♪ emma, emma bo-bemma ♪ banana-fana-fo-femma ♪ fee-fi-fo-femma ♪ em-ma very good sweety, how do you feel? good. yeah? you did a really good job, okay? let's go back to drawing. the pictures coming out of somalia these past few weeks have been absolutely shocking. tens of thousands of children starving to death. victims of famine and more, spreading to kenya and ethiopia. one group founded by a 2010 cnn hero is working to help the youngest victims there. anderson cooper has more on this. as millions struggle across the drought-ravaged horn of africa in what the u.n. refugee agency is calling the worst humanitarian disaster in the world, cnn hero magnus barrow's organization is in the middle of the crisis. >> we've seen it worsen steadily. today around one-third of the children are malnourished. so we have a real situation of life and death. and because of that, we're trying desperately to expand our program to reach more children at risk. >> since 2006, mary's meals has been feeding thousands of young children in school across the region. >> the mission of mary's meals is about linking food to education. for that education to be the ladder out of poverty for their whole community. >> in recent weeks the organization has responded to the drought crisis by feeding an additional 6,000 children daily. 24,000 in all. the kind of important global work for which magnus was named a top ten cnn hero last year and received an order of the british empire from queen elizabeth. but magnus remains laser focused