ground zero where it was heavily damaged. the white spots turned gray. it had rips and tears. all this year jeff and his group, new york says thank you, have been going around the country repairing it spot by spot with flags that have flown over other disaster sites and things like that. this portion of the flag flew over pearl harbor when it was bombed. this section right here, this flew at martin luther king jr.'s funeral. that was the georgia patch. you can see on the far side there there's active duty military people. they are sewing a part of the flag that flew over the pentagon on september 11th. and, you know, the spirit here, nobody here is talking about terrorists or war or anything. everybody here is talking about the day after september 11th when we saw so much unity and so much bravery by first responders. and that's really the spirit i think that what they want to do is reclaim that from history and be able to have that be as much a part of the story as terrorists or war or anything along those lines, anderson. >> jim, i appreciate that. one of the things we were talking about before is i do think on this day and in the years ahead it's not the names of terrorists that americans remember, nor necessarily are they important. they have disappeared in history and will. tights victims here whose names should be remembered and the names, obviously, of the victims etched in bronze here. there's been another memorial observance going on further uptown in new york. special correspondent at the firemen's memorial in new york. it's about seven miles north of the world trade center site. we'll take you there next. soledad o'brien joins us now. soledad, is the memorial still going on there? >> reporter: you know, it's interesting. the memorial itself has wrapped up, but what we have here are firefighters who have driven in, in many cases, on their motorcycles to be part of the celebration here. it's almost remarkable. they did this convoy of motorcycles right down riverside drive, where you're right, anderson, about eight miles north of where you are. so after the memorial ended and many of the firefighters from the fdny went off to church, folks from, you know, every state, literally every single state, plus i've seen firefighters from germany and from france and canada and australia, are here and taking an opportunity to check out the firefighters memorial, which is really the centerpiece of the event that was here today is remarkable. we wanted to tell the story today of a woman named regina wilson, a firefighter whose story we tell in a document that we have airing tonight at 10:00 p.m. on cnn. we wanted to look at the role of women at ground zero who served and as part of our documentary we told the story of regina wilson. take a look. >> my name is regina wilson, and i am a firefighter for the city of new york. >> good morning! >> who here knows what a firefighter does? >> these manhattan kindergartners are too young to have witnessed the terror or the heroism of 9/11. >> if you want to do anything at all, you can do it. >> regina's challenge is convincing these girls that the value of serving is greater than the danger. >> these are all women. they're holding -- see this hose line here? >> brenda berkman fought for that right in 1979 when she sued the fire department for gender discrimination. >> ready to go? >> ready. >> let's get that over the edge. >> 12 years ago, regina joined engine 219 in brooklyn, a beneficiary of brenda's lawsuit. >> sir, can you please put your arms around my neck? >> she became the first firefighter in her family. >> this is not an easy job. >> right. >> and it's a scary job and it's a job where you could die on the job. >> right. >> why is it something that you fought to be part of? >> because i think it's a cause worthy of that. everyone needs somebody to look out for them. and i think, like, the purest part of my job is when i'm in uniform because you can't tell my race, you can't tell my gender. >> regina hopes more women will follow her into firefighting. yet ten years after 9/11, the fire department has fewer female firefighters. how many female firefighters are there in the city? >> 29. and there's a little closer to 11,000. >> 29. >> so we're not even a percentage. hi, i'm regina. >> the fire department recently launched a recruiting drive. regina is always looking for new female firefighters. >> i always feel like i'm doing something for my community. >> reporter: regina has now left her firestation temporarily because she's focusing full-time on recruiting because only every four years do they give the firefighters test. she wants to make sure her face is out there so many other women will see her face and realize firefighting is a great job for women, as well. >> anderson? >> how "stuff" is it for a woman to join the new york city fire department? is it the same test that male firefighters have to go through? >> reporter: it is. and what's interesting, when you talk to regina and see her workout regime -- she said many people think the job is just physical, and it is, but it's physical and a woman who's strong can do it, and she is a strong woman. we follow her through her workouts and see that she is able to do exactly what everyone else is able to do. what's also interesting is the changes in the last ten years in the fire department, which is there's much more emphasis placed on book learning. keep in mind the massive amount of experience that was lost when 343 firefighters lost their lives on 9/11. that was tons of experience. so the idea of learning on the job, which is the way things were done, you know, ten years ago and before that, that's really changed. the focus has changed. there's not the people we were told that really could do that across the board at all the firestations. they focus much more on training people before they go out and start the job. it's not learning on the job. things have changed a lot to a large degree in firehouses across new york city. >> soledad, is there a theory as to why there are so few women? i'm certain there are a fewer number of women who apply compared to men. >> they believe it's completely about recruitment, especially here in new york, where firefighting is a job that is often passed down from father to son, father to son. they really want to get more women's faces out there so we can see that women are doing the job. there are some cities like san francisco and the city, miami-dade, for example, that had as high as 15%, 15% of the firefighting force is female. so they believe those numbers are changeable. it's just going to be a matter of really aggressively recruiting women for what is a terrific job. [ applause ] that noise, by the way, over my shoulder at the memorial here at riverside is a number of speeches now and people making presentations. literally one of the most beautiful memorials in new york city, the firefighters memorial, which was placed there in 1913, and the last ten years it's where firefighter have come to pay their respects to the 343 firefighters who died. i hope they all have a chance to watch our document tonight at 10:00 p.m. eastern, "beyond bravery: women at ground zero." >> soledad, thanks. >> thanks, soledad. we want to remind our viewers, "fareed zakaria: gps" is still to come in its entirety when we wrap up our coverage here. just ahead, canine search-and-rescue dogs were a common sight here ten years ago, sniffing through the wreckage of the world trade center on september 11th. next up, a memorial commemorating their contributions. ♪ [ doug ] i got to figure this out. i want to focus on innovation. but my data is doubling. my servers are maxed out. i need to think about something else when i run. 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[ trapp ] creating an experience instead of just a meal that's endless shrimp. my name is angela trapp. i'm a server at red lobster and i sea food differently. you are looking at pictures of the president of the united states and first lady michelle obama at shanksville at the memorial there. talk about your pastoral scene, it gives you a sense of how far away. we had two cities attacked and then here where that was that horrendous fight in the cockpit that went down in rural shanksville, pennsylvania. >> president obama and michelle obama were here at the world trade site earlier this morning along with former president bush and his wife, laura, and their daughters. they'll also go to pentagon with first lady michelle obama for a commemoration ceremony there. survivors of the 9/11 terror attacks tell remarkable stories about finding their way to safety. michael hayden looks inside the world trade center but never saw neigh because he's blind and got out with the help of his guide dog. he told the story to cnn's alina cho. >> reporter: the images are sered in our collective memory. for michael hingson, 9/11 was not about what he saw but what he heard. blind since birth, he was working on the 78th floor of the north tower when 18 floors above him the first plane struck. when did you first realize that something was wrong? >> instantly, because what happened was that we heard a muffled explosion, the building shuddered and then if you imagine my arm as the tower it just started tipping and it kept tipping and tipping and tipping. we moved about 20 feet. >> reporter: he knew he had to get out. he also knew he needed help. so he turned to his lifeline, guide dog rozell, his constant companion for 12 years. >> i took her leash, i told her to heel, which meant come on my left side and sit, which she did. about that time the building dropped straight down about six feet. >> reporter: with time running out, hinkson made his way to stairwell b and began his decent. 1,364 steps. >> that's what i calculate. i don't count stairs. but 77 flights, i calculated 1,463. >> reporter: along the way, a critical clue -- a familiar odor. >> it wasn't something that i expected to encounter in the world trade center. finally i realized that's what i smell when i go to an airport. >> reporter: jet fuel. >> we assumed we were hit by an airplane, but we had no information. >> reporter: scared for his life, somehow he remained calm. so roselle wouldn't panic. >> if i started acting nervous, if i started sounding fearful, that would have made roselle nervous. she depends on me to be focused. her job is to make sure we walk safely, not to know where i want to go. so i have to give her commands. the more confident i am, the more comfortable she is. >> reporter: his calm helped keep his co-workers focused, too. >> david kept shouting, we have to get out of here. i said, slow down we're going to evacuate in an orderly way. you have the picture, right? the sighted guy seeing all this stuff going on and the blind guy saying we'll get out of here but in an orderly way. at one point on the stairs we all stopped because a woman near us said i can't go on, i can't breathe, we're not going to make it out. we stopped and had a group hug. >> reporter: what haunts him the most ten years late rer memories of running into firemen who were headed up into the hell above. >> he petted roselle. she gave him some kisses, which was probably the last unconditional love he ever got in his life. if he made it out, i never heard it. >> reporter: 45 minutes after he began his escape, he made it to ground level. this is video his colleagues shot as they fled the north tower. by late afternoon, he and roselle found refuge at a friend's apartment. your story resonated with so many people around the world becau because of what people perceive to be the extraordinary nature of your escape. i don't sense you feel it was any more extraordinary than anyone else's escape. >> i think it was a miracle that so many people got out, how so many people worked together in the face of so many odds and working with roselle was one example of teamwork. >> reporter: alina cho, cnn, new york. >> extraordinary that so many people were able to get out alive. on that day we all worried about the numbers of potential casualties, body bags, 30,000, i think, body bags. thankfully the numbers were not nearly that bad. many four-legged heros in the aftermath of 9/11, canine search-and-rescue dogs a common sight sniffing through the wreckage of the world trade center. a lot of photographs of the dogs that worked. the dogs worked tirelessly to find and recover victims. many of those dogs are being honored today in new jersey. professionals who served during the 9/11 disaster. let's listen in to some of the reading of the names, the final reading of the names this morning. this afternoon at the world trade center site. >> andrew sergio paulos. >> peter vega and my late husband, james patrick ladley. we were blessed to have you in our life, jimmy. we will miss you and will never forget you. thank you for my two beautiful children. i honor your memory by keeping them close to heart just like you. alan l. busineiznowski. god bless america. ♪ i will remember you will you remember me don't let your life ♪ ♪ pass you by weep not for the memory ♪ ♪ i'm so tired but i can't sleep standing on the edge ♪ ♪ of something much too deep we feel so much but cannot say a word ♪ ♪ we are screaming inside we can't be heard i will remember you ♪ ♪ i will remember will you remember me i will remember ♪ ♪ don't let your life pass you by weep not for ♪ ♪ the memories remember the good times that we had ♪ ♪ don't let them slip away from us when things got bad ♪ ♪ once there was a darkness a deep and endless night ♪ ♪ you gave me everything you gave me light i will remember you ♪ ♪ i will remember will you remember me i will remember ♪ ♪ don't let your life pass you by weep not for ♪ ♪ the memories don't let your life pass you by ♪ ♪ weep not for the memories ♪ ♪ i will remember you generations do not cease to be born, and we are responsible to them because we are the only witnesses that they have. the sea rises. the light fails. lovers cling to each other. and children cling to us. the moment we cease to hold each other, the moment we break faith with one another, the sea ungulfs us and the light goes out. [ "taps" is played ] >> crowds have begun to thin out, family members, though, still remaining, "taps" is played. it has been an extraordinary several hours here at the site of the world trade center. the new towers rising. the foot prints of the old towers still remain. wolf blitzer is at the pentagon. soledad o'brien is at the firemens memorial further uptown in manhattan. soledad, a different ceremony you are witnessing today but extremely emotional, as well, for the hundreds of firefighters who attended, thousands, probably, to honor the more than 340 firefighters who lost their lives during 9/11. >> reporter: yeah. you know, they really wanted the event today here at 100th and riverside to be not about speeches and not about politicians. they told me that several times. they said this is about firemen, firefighters honoring firefighters and remembering firefighters. and so that's what they did. they had a simple and very beautiful ceremony, and it was not punctuated by anyone talking or anything other than people just really ek pressing their remarkable support for the heroic actions of the 343 firefighters who lost their lives on that day. the last ten years they've come to this firefighters memorial to hold, you know, a kind of mostly sort of private event, really, just for firefighters and their families. and they say they'll be back again next year doing the same thing, remembering people in a very simple way because that's ultimately what it's all about. anderson? >> and, wolf, at the pentagon, where president obama will be arriving later, again, another solemn memorial. >> reporter: very solemn, very moving. ten years, hard to believe, anderson, it's been ten years since 9/11. that moment when we first learned what was going on, something all of us who lived through it will never forget. you know, i'm struck by the fact that during these ten years something didn't happen that i assumed would happen often over the ten years, another spectacular terrorist attack against americans in the united states. that has not happened, and all of us are grateful for all those who prevented that from happening over this past decade. at the same time, i'm also haunt fw ed by fact there are still individuals out there, terrorists out there, whether lone wolves or organized groups who hate the united states, who hate america, and would like nothing more than to once again undertake this kind of terror attack against the united states, perhaps even something more dramatic, even something more deadly. so even though al qaeda may be on the ropes right now, there are still people out there who hate the united states and all of us, of course, have to appreciate that as we go forward, which will be for a very, very long time with the so-called constant concern about terrorism. anderson? >> and today we also want to keep in mind the day -- this was a day of work for thousands of new york city police officers, port authority personnel as well as national guard personnel. and our thoughts and our appreciation go out to them and owl the members of our fighting forces who are serving overseas, keeping us and many around the world safe. >> now 2,977 people died ten years ago today. i know there will be a time moving forward in history where this day doesn't have the emotional attachment, the personal emotional attachment and sadness that it has. but ten years is not nearly long enough. >> yeah, it certainly is not, nor likely will it ever be. for candy crowley, wolf blitzer, john king, soledad o'brien, and all our correspondents, thank you for watching. our coverage for our viewers in the united states. "fareed zakaria: gps" is next. and becky anderson takes over the memorial coverage for our international viewers. thanks very much. thinking about what had caused the attack, what had explained this monstrous evil. that's how 9/11 was discussed and analyzed at the time, mostly with a focus on them. >> and the people who took these buildings down will hear all of us soon. >> who are they? why are they so enraged? what do they want? what will stop them from hating us? >> but if 9/11 was focused at the time on them, ten years later the discussion is mostly about us -- what is america's position in the world today? are we safer? are we stronger? was it worth it? some of these questions are swirling around because the u.s. is mired in tough economic times and at such moments the mood is introspective, not outward looking. some of it is because of the success in the war against al qaeda, the threat from islamic terrorism still seems real but more manageable and contained. but history will probably record this period not as one characterized by al qaeda and islamic terrorism. >> against al qaeda training camps. >> that will get a few paragraphs or a chapter. the main story will be about the fate of the united states of america. 50 years from now, we might even look at 9/11 as simply the beginning of the decline of america as the world's unrivaled hegemony. on the day before 9/11, the united states was at peace, had a large budget surplus, and oil was trading at $28 a barrel. today the united states is engaged in military operations across the globe, has a deficit of $1.5 trillion, the largest in its history, and oil is at $115 a barrel. few people remember today what the ball war was about, but what they do know is around that time at the beginning of the 20th century, great britain spent a great many of its resources and, more important, its attention policing the world and neglected to focus on maintaining its industrial and economic competitiveness, strength, and energy. america is not fated to follow that path, but it's time we focus on the big challenges that we face -- staying competitive in a new global era -- and make the hard changes and adjustments we need to at home. you see, the danger comes not from them but from us. for more on this, go to our website at cnn.com/gps. letget started. joining me now is the former secretary of defense twice dover donald rumsfeld. what memories do you have now of that day when american airlines 77 crashed into the pentagon? what's the most vivid recollection? >> i was in the pentagon when it was hit, and we had the two planes hit the world trade center before that, minutes before. and the first plane hit, it was obviously an accident, and the second plane hit and it obviously was not an accident. and then the pentagon shook, and the it was clear that america had been attacked. and i went down the hall and -- until the smoke was so bad i couldn't go any for the. i went downstairs and outside, and there out on the lawn, the apron around the pentagon, were just, you know, thousands of pieces of metal, little pieces, not -- it's not like that plane stayed together. the plane just was pieces everywhere. and people coming out with burns, and people going in and helping them out. i ran into a lieutenant colonel who said to me that he saw an airplane hit the pentagon. i had no idea if it was a bomb or what had happened. but it was a day we'll all remember throughout our lives, and after a decade certainly we remember those who were killed and their families and their friends and what a terrible, terrible day for america. >> so when you look back now, ten years later, osama bin laden is dead, many of his deputies are dead, there has not been a significant attack not just against the united states but really a significant attack for several years, though there have, of course, been -- >> other countries. >> madrid. but in the last five years, remarkable outside of places like iraq and pakistan how few there have been. do you think we have won at least an important phase of this war? >> oh, i think so. i think that the coalition that was put together of, i don't know, 90 countries by president bush and the sharing of intelligence, sharing of information about bank accounts and the pressure that's been put on terrorist networks has been helpful and helped to protect the american people. but, you know, a terrorist can attack anyplace, anytime, using any technique and you can't defend everywhere at every moment against every technique. and they only have to be right once. you can thwart five or six, and if they do it well you can have a september 11th or you can have something much worse. you can have instead of 3,000, 300,000 with a smallpox vaccine or some other weapon of that nature. so the margin for error is small for the leadership in free countries today. they can't be wrong. they've got to be right, because the lethality of the weapons is is so great. >> when you look back over the ten years and you look at where we are, doesn't it strike you that the iraq war was at the very least an enormously costly distraction? a trillion dollars at the least. thousands of lives. and it's not clear that it -- if you look at all the things you listed as the reasons why we are succeeding, it doesn't seem to have been crucial. >> well, it's hard to know. i think the world's certainly a better place with saddam hussein gone. >> be, that's not the question. the question was, was it central to the war on terror. >> there's no question that al qaeda and zawahiri and people were in iraq. theying a regatded there and they -- >> largely after we invaded. >> exactly. exactly. >> but that -- if we hadn't invad invaded, they wouldn't have been there. >> we don't know that. you don't know that. i don't know that. >> but they went in to fight us. so since we weren't there, why would they have gone into iraq? >> why have they gone into yemen and somalia? why do al qaeda go anywhere? they go where it's hospitable. >> right, and iraq hn been hospitable. saddam hussein had not -- >> zawahiri had been there. >> but, look, looking back at history, you've got to think in your heart of hears, if you could do it over again, this was a wild distraction. >> there are people who try to make the case that iraq distracted things from afghanistan. >> i just mean our energies. >> oh, energies in the aggregate. >> in the aggregate. >> well, clearly, it's been costly, no question about that. >> without much benefit. look at iraq today. iran is able to influence its foreign policy. it's cozying up to syria even as assad is butchering his people. is this what you had hoped for. >> of course not. one would hope that things would turn out perfectly, but in life they rarely do. your suggestion implies that the world's not better off with saddam hussein gone. >> no, no. i just said it wasn't -- the cost. >> let me make my statement. i think the world is better off having the iraqi people, an important country, with a constitution they drafted, with a government that's respectful of the various diverse elements in that country. is it perfect? no. are people still going to be killing each other from time to time in that part of the world? you bet. and -- but it is, i think, a situation that is better today than it was then. now, it's taken time. it's taken money. it's taken lives. and that is always not predictable. i've watched your migration on the issue. and it is -- it's an understandable migration. >> i just think the costs have -- everything in life is a cost-benefit analysis. you can't pretend otherwise. >> mm-hmm. >> and at some point the costs overwhelm any potential benefits. and it just seems as though in terms of the energy we have devoted, if you look back, and what we got out of it, it's tough to make the case that you would do it again. >> there are unintended benefits and unintended consequences, as well, but, i mean, the fact that gadhafi watched saddam hussein come up out of that hole and made a conscious decision he would give up his nuclear program and called in the west to dismantle it was a good thing. >> that was an unintended benefit. >> exactly. >> but let me ask you, because you started out your tenure as defense secretary in this case with a very clear sense of what the american military posture should be in this world. we should be light. we should be heeley that will. we should be flexible. i was very taken by it, and i actually still think fundamentally it is the right way to go. but then we got involved in these wars in iraq, in afghanistan, and we developed this massive new doctrine, counterinsurgency, which is really basically about occupation and governance of these societies. all i'm saying is that's not the light, lethal, flexible military that donald rumsfeld talked about. >> no, it's not. that's right. not just donald rumsfeld but george bush. he spoke at the citadel, let's bring in the 20th century. that's what i was working on. then 9/11 came. >> we'll talk about this and more when we come back. and transfer between accounts, so your money can move as fast as you do. check out your portfolio, track the market with live updates. and execute trades anywhere and anytime the inspiration hits you. even deposit checks right from your phone. just take a picture, hit deposit and you're done. open an account today and put schwab mobile to work for you. okay, so who ordered the cereal that can help lower cholesterol and who ordered the yummy cereal? 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(in chinese) ask me why i never want to leave my ergo. ask me why i'm glad i didn't wait 'till i was too old to enjoy this. start asking real owners. ask me how to make your first move... find out more about the tempur advanced ergo system! call the number on your screen for your free dvd and information kit. to find an authorized dealer near you, visit tempurpedic.com. tempur-pedic. the most highly recommended bed in america. try capzasin-hp. it penetrates deep to block pain signals for hours of relief. capzasin-hp. take the pain out of arthritis. and we're back with donald rumsfeld talking about 9/11 and everything else ten years on. >> let me make a comment about 9/11 and today. today with a debt crisis and a deficit crisis we're about ready to make the same mistake we've made after world war ii, after vietnam and korea, and then after the cold war. pare down our intelligence, cut the budgets in the defense department, and think we can get away with it. we got away with it in earlier years. it's inefficient. you then have to crank it back up, which is what president reagan had to do after the carter years and what president george w. bush had to do after the george herbert walker and clinton years, after the end of the cold war. if we make that mistake again, it seems to me we're doing it in an environment that's notably different. the margin for error for political leadership in our country is different today because of the lethality of weapons. and if we do what it look like the congress is going to do, think they can balance the budget off the pentagon, i think it will be a tragic mistake for the country. >> we're still spending more than the rest of the world put together. we're still spending six to eight times more than -- >> would you rather have somalia spend more or sudan or -- >> no. but my point is there's room -- you ran the budget up so high that there's room to come down without sacrificing -- >> when i was in the navy and when i went to washington and eisenhower was president and then kennedy and then johnson, we were spending 10% of gdp on defense. what are we spending today? 4%. 3%, 4%, 5%, in that range. >> largely because gdp has gone up so much. it's a testament to america's economic strength. >> we are committing a -- less than half as a percentage of gdp today than we were then and we can afford it just fine. now, there are people who think we're living in the post-american world, to coin a phrase. there are people who believe that we should step back and lead from behind. i personally think that the role of the united states has been a good one in the world, that it's been a healthy thing, that it's contributed to a more peaceful world, and it's not an accident that people all over the world want to come here and they're standing in line to get a green card to come to the united states. and the order that the united states contributes to, peace and stability in the world, by our strength is significant. i mean, dwight eisenhower had the phrase right -- it's peace through strength. it's be a deterrent, have those capabilities that dissuade people from thinking they can do things they ought not to do. weakness is provocative. we done want to provoke people. >> but eisenhower believed very much in having a military industrial complex that was manageable. he worried a great deal about overspending. he worried even after sputnik that it was going to be -- he is if anything a story about somebody who felt that you don't need, you know, to spend more than the rest of the world put together, which is what we're spending. i just want to say on your bait that -- >> that phrase. >> all the nice things you said about america are what attracted me to come to this country in the first place. >> and we're glad you came. >> but i've got to get back to something, back to your conception of the military. you must regard general petraeus and all this counterinsurgency and the way it's taken the military as all a big mistake. >> no, i don't. >> you can't have it both ways. you can't say you were in favor of this light, flexible military and then praise what petraeus' vision for the military is, which is entirely different. >> i can. and i'll tell you how. it's true that there are countries where we need to have strength that would dissuade them from conventional-type activities. we also need capabilities that dissuade countries from insurgency-type activities. >> leadership is about choice. you can't have everything. >> we're spending 4% of gdp on defense instead of 10%, which we spent during the eisenhower period. >> do you want us to spend 10%? >> no, i don't. but i do think we're about ready to make a big mistake and the people who go around saying, oh, you don't need to worry about defense, i worry about our intelligence capabilities. this is a complicated world. it's a dangerous world. we've got problems of proliferation of weapons of mass destruction. >> we spend all this money and miss saddam hussein's weapons of mass destruction, we miss the arab spring, miss the breakup of the soviet union. what are we getting out of all that money? >> intelligence money, it is very worrisome that we miss those things that our intelligence capabilities, despite the fine people trying hard, it is -- it is not like you're looking at the soviet union for 40 years and you get to understand it pretty well, although we made mistakes there, too. >> i was going to say, we didn't realize they were collapsing. >> exactly. we also didn't realize they were spending 18% of their gdp on defense. >> the two things were related, i would say. >> a smaller gdp than we thought. >> you've been very chairable to the kind of point of view that is different from yours, they're not so charitable towards you, max boot in "commentary" magazine, very conservative magazine, speaks of you. gates' predecessor, donald rumsfeld, has been discredited along with most senior generals for pursuing wrong-headed policies in iraq, including insisting no more troops were needed. do you think that's how you're going to be remembered by those people? >> oh, i don't know. there are people who write things all the time that are right and some are wrong. when you do something, somebody's not going to like it and you just expect that. there are people who write, they have to write something so, they write something. i hear things all the time that aren't correct. >> do you have any regrets looking -- >> of course you have regrets. of course, my goodness. that's the typical journalist question. every sournlist says, oh, tell me what you did wrong, what are your regrets. i'll tell you what is hard. and that is that these wonderful men and women who volunteer to serve our country, and some of them get injured and some of them get killed. and it is heartbreaking. what do you say to their family, and what do you say to their friends? i always come away inspired by them. >> that's a sense of sadness. i'm asking you about regrets about decisions you make, or are you saying that you're regretting that the grief comes from the fact that these deaths were unnecessary? >> no, of course they're not unnecessary. >> when i ask about regrets, we all have grief about the loss of these brave people. but i'm saying what do you look back on your -- you know, on your tenure and tenure and say would have done it differently. >> i think we've done a not very good job of -- we've put a lot of pressure on terrorist networks but for whatever reason americans are very reluck ant to talk about radical islamism and islamists, we don't want to be seen as against a religion. the bush administration didn't do a good job. we were careful and words were always sensitive and we never -- you can't win a battle of ideas a combination of ideas unless you describe the enemy, say who it is, say what's wrong with it and say what we do and why that's what's right. we did that in the cold ward and defeated communism and we were tongue tied over this and the obama administration is much worse. they won't even use the word in their hearings, the attorney general doesn't want to discuss it. >> but he killed os sam ma. >> the president -- did he do a good job on that? >> of course, how can you ask a question like this. did you want him to live? >> i'm asking given the choices you face to not use drones, you've been there. >> absolutely. >> they are not difficult decisions but he did the right thing, absolutely, the right thing. >> they are not difficult decisions? >> in this case the question as to whether you use a drone and don't have certainty or you use the s.e.a.l. team and have those enormously trained and brilliantly equipped people do what they did, i think the correct choice was selected and i don't think it's that tough a choice. myself. i think he did the right thing. they thought about it and discussed it and made the right decision. and the world is a better place because -- >> i hate to leave it at this, but i'm hoping we can entice you back. >> good, i'd enjoy it. >> pleasure to have you on. >> we will be back. now for our what in the world segment. let me tell you about the most influ enshal book to be published since 9/11. it's actually not a book but a report, a u.n. report written by a committee. i'm talking about the arab development report published in 2002. after 9/11 in the midst of the discussion of what was happening in the arab world, why was the source of this terrorism the u.n. development department's head brown commissioned a study of the arab world but insisted it be researched and written by arabs. so there was no accusation of an outsider's bias. the result was a brutally frank document that was a sensation. it was downloaded off the internet 1 million times. the report documented the stunning decay of the arab world. if you want to explore the conditions that produced al qaeda, read this report. take a look at some of the most dam s statistics a broad range of political and civil rights arab countries came last. look at the economy, the report highlighted the entire arab league put together, 22 countries including saudi arabia and egypt had a smaller gdp than spain. 15% of arabs were unemployed compared to 6% at the time. then there's education, in 200,6 65 million arabs were it literal. for the few arab readers the entire region was translating 330 books a year. one fifth the amount greece translates every year. they showed how the arab world was worse other than everywhere except subsahara and africa. much in the report is unchanged or barely changed. the raw number of arabs who can't read or write has increased. other indicators have worsened too. somalia is suffering from a dead dead deadly famine, one could go on. in case you've been keeping track, the only real indicator of the arab world health that has improved is its gdp. the arab league's combined gross domestic product has quad drupled. but here's the rerevealing statistic. the price of oil almost rose at the same rate. and that kind of oil produce growth doesn't trickle down and doesn't help the tons of millions of arabs in the region's most populist countries that have little oil. according to world bank data, it has taken three decades for the average arab person's income to