Transcripts For CNNW CNN Newsroom With Fredricka Whitfield 20150523

Personal bias. I was disappointed no doubt about it. However, he relied on the law. And the inputs which are the charges and the indictment which he could not control, dictated his output. I think that it was an inappropriate charge from the start there were many other officers there and there could have been charges that would have implicated the other officers who did set this chain of events which caused death, into motion. Which is exactly how and why mr. Brelo was acquitted. So joey one thing that the judge pointed out, is that causation was a real problem in this case. And it appears that thats one of the things that that led to his decision of not guilty on both counts. He did indeed joe. You know its interesting, though whenever a judge acts as a finder of fact in addition to a concluder of law, the judge of course is placed in a position as a jury would be placed in. Its interesting because the judge certainly could have gone another route had he credited expert testimony. And remember what the judge said he evaluated and took the unusual step of getting off the bench, demonstrating as you see with the dummies that were there. The trajectory angles. What bullet caused what. You know and essentially what he was saying joe, was that you know at the end of the day, it was a fatal shot that was fired by brelo. But there were other fatal shots as well. And whos to say that those shots were not equally in terms of causing the death, responsible for causing the death. Had he concluded that the expert is the expert said that brelos shot was the cause of death, he certainly cover went the other way. Did not draw such a conclusion. And as a result of that said that it was not the straw that broke the camels back. Causation could not be established and as a result he would be found not guilty. Well the hope now is that things will stay peaceful in cleveland, but of course remember this is coming after a twoyear Justice Department investigation that found Cleveland Police used guns tasers pepper spray and their fists excessively, unnecessarilior or in retaliation. And this particular case was part of that investigation. So to look further into whats going to happen from this point on and to examine it we want to send it over to our colleague, fredricka witfield, who has been sitting here with us watching this whole thing unfold. Were going to continue the conversation. Walter madison is going to stick with us as well as joey jackson now talking about the equital of officer Michael Brelo there in cleveland, ohio. Its 11 00 on the east coast. Hello, everyone. Welcome to the news room and Avery Friedman in cleveland with us now. The breaking news a continuation of the discussion a Police Officer found not guilty of voluntary platte anywhere the deaths of an unarmed man and woman. That of Timothy Russell and Melissa Williams. The verdict read just moments ago from the judge. There you see the tearful brelo there, hearing that he is acquitted after being one of 13 officers who fired 137 shots. Killing Timothy Russell and Melissa Williams after a police chase back in november 29 2012. Brelo jumped on to the hood of the car and fired into the windshield. And you heard the judge there saying while one of his shots, if not at least one of those shots may have led to a fatal injury. It appeared based on medical examiners report that likely the prior shots are what caused the deaths of those two people. This is what the car, you saw the image of the vehicle with the bulletriddled windshield thats what it looked like after the shooting. There again, the vehicle that they were driving. Ryan young is also live in cleveland, hell be joining us a a reporter there on the scene. So lets talk more about how the judge rendered this decision. Again back with me attorney Walter Madison, hes also the attorney for the tamir rice family out of cleveland, ohio. That investigation still ongoing. Avery freeman with us as well and joey jackson. So walter and joey weve been hearing from you all this morning. I want to hear from you as well first, avery this right in your back yard as well. This was an unusual style. Here were talking about a saturday and a decision rendered by this judge. It was Michael Brelos decision not to have a jury trial. But instead one commandered by the judge. And the judge didnt just read his verdict. But he he really set the stage, did he not, with the justification, as to why he rendered the decision. And these live pictures right now of people reacting outside the courthouse. Upon hearing. In fact think we can hear what theyre, what theyre saying lets listen in. No peace no peace no justice why . Why . [ crying ] why, why, why . Clearly a real disappointment there and sadness that the officer would be found not guilty of the deaths of Timothy Russell and Melissa Williams. Avery to you, the style of the judge as to set the stage as to why he was rendering this decision. How unusual was this or how necessary in your view might this have been . Well i think what judge John Odonnell was doing, fredricka, was putting this case first of all in a national perspective. He talked about ferguson he talked about charleston. He talked about new york. And he talked about baltimore. And he explained how important the process involving the rule of law is. And after setting that up what he did, he was very precise in analyzing not only the specifics of what the experts had to say, but then making a determination of accepting and rejecting some of the expert testimony. And this is what happens. Remember if it were a jury we may have seen a very different result. It would have been a clevelandbased jury. But the defendant has the right to waive that so it was on the shoulders of one individual and thats judge John Odonnell and thats exactly what he did. And i think within this community, that verdict is a surprise to many. Because i think the opinion at least, and these are nonlegal opinions of course but the opinion generally in the community is that it was pretty 50 50. Most cut down the middle on whether or not there was going to be a guilty verdict here. And walter if i could bring you into the equation here here are you in the studio with me but cleveland is your town as well. And so was this a surprise to you that a decision would be rendered this way . Even though the judge said based on a lot of medical testimony, he helped set the stage as to what bullet holes did what at what time. To best you know he could account based object the knowledge of the medical examiners . The conclusion and the manner is not a surprise. Cleveland all along has developed a practice and a pattern of releasing information late friday or even on the weekend when it would get the least amount of attention. As the case is brought, the county controlled that. They selected this charge and this particular defendant. Why wouldnt a dozen Police Officers involved why did it fall on one officer, the one who was standing on the hood carrying out the final shots, why would he be the only one facing these. Charges . Thats. In the prosecutors discretion. , but thats the real issue. We cant fault. Judge odonnell for how he opined and found his conclusion. S. Of fact and law here. , for that matter i agree, causation always jumped out at me as a big problem in this case. Officers are. Issued the same weapons, same ammunition you know i dont know how they would have ever established causation on the part of mr. Brelo. Bad input, bad output. Did anyone see that it might present some questions, even after trial, with just one officer, when you had 13 officers who were involved . Well fredricka, i think the overriding concern, concerning brelos conduct was just that his conduct. He was the officer, notwithstanding the fuselage of 140 shots or so approximately being fired. His gun there were 49 that were fired. In addition to that he was the officer who jumped up on the hood and started dischargeing his weapon. Using the victims as target practice. They took issue with his conduct. When you look at the overall judges decision one of the things about the law is that essentially a judge, through reasoned judgment applying lawsuit to the facts, can reach any conclusion that they think is just. And of course whenever a judge puts themselves in a position and i shouldnt say puts themself. Certainly the defendant opted to go with the judge. But the judge is now, fredricka, acting as a finder of fact. Acting in the province of a jury to determine what facts are provable what facts are not. A judge could have gone a different way if he credited certain facts, for example, facts suggesting by medical testimony that brelos shot was indeed the shot that took the life of those victims. He decided that that was not clear to him. And certainly was not proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Programs another judge may have reached another conclusion perhaps a jury would have reached a different conclusion. Based on the expert testimony, him saying that that shot alone did not establish to him, was the cause of the death and that was not the straw that broke the camels back and therefore he opted to acquit. Im hearing you walter and i have avery with your audible noises as to the judges finder of fact i want to get your comments on that in a moment. But first, just moments ago, brelos attorney spoke outside the courtroom. Patrick dangelo this is what he had to say. Having said that, i would like to state that it was my privilege to have represented officer brelo. Coy not have done it without the team that we had of tom shaugnessy Fernando Mack and marissa seraut. They were all equal and important contributors. Its clear to me after a 37year career that the civil rights lawyers that everyone talks about were on display in this courtroom. One of us one of our citizens was taken on by the state of ohio. And the prosecution in this case spared no expense and was in fact ruthless. But notwithstanding that we fought tooth and nail as you saw in this courtroom. It was classically a case of david versus goliath. And at the end, you saw lawyering at i think its very highest level in this courtroom. And i dont say that as a braggert. Im proud to have played a role in this case. And i hope that all the naysayers out there, all the socalled plaintiffs lawyers that claim that theyre civil rights lawyers and never tried one of these damn cases to a verdict. But theyre out there for a money grab all the time. Officer brelo was the judges opinion set forth, risked his life on that night. We regret and we acknowledge that two people died. None of us like that and that in fact was a tragedy. But at the end of the day, that tragedy was brought about by conscious decisionmaking and lifestyles that those two individuals irrespective of their mental states voluntarily took throughout their adult lives this Society Needs personal responsibility. And all of us need to look in the mirror. The naacp has been at the forefront of the fight for civil rights. But the fight for civil rights should not be premised upon the color of ones skin. And many in this community that profess to be civil rights advocates and who claim all these lofty principles of setting innocent people free after theyre wrongfully quicked and prosecuted [ crying ] sorry about that. We were still hearing from the attorney Patrick Deangelo the representative of Michael Brelo. And called this a ruthless act, the pursuit of this one officer for all that took place on that november 29th back with me now, Walter Madison and joey jackson and Avery Friedman both avery and walter youre familiar with cleveland this is your home town. And let me just go to you first, walter. You said this in your view is classic victimblaming hearing from the attorney there who said you know this was wrong, to pursue his client. And that the outcome is fair and just. And you know, i clearly disagree with that and so does the department of justice and our United States government when they wrote that scathing report about the excessive patterns of abuse and violence. Mr. Brelo should have been indicted as well as others. Our focus clearly is on the input here versus the output. I dont disagree with the operation of law. I think the judge came to a reasonable conclusion with what he had to make the decision. You know what he had to base his decision upon. And i have tried cases, hundreds of them. And i can see this a mile away. That causation was going to be an issue. Its unfortunate. Spent a lot of money prosecuting this case and rehashing the injury for this family and who they are and what they are has nothing to do with being shot 137 times. So avery, in your view case closed . You know Involuntary Manslaughter not guilty. Theres an acquittal of this officer. Is there any recourse for the prosecution to pursue any of the other officers the other 12 officers . Well actually unbeknownst to most there are pending criminal cases against a handful of the officers involved. Those cases are of a minor nature. But the case isnt over in terms of civil claims. I heard Patrick Deangelo talk about civil rights lawyers. Well patrick and i actually cocounselled in a case against the klu klux klan. So in a sense patrick was a civil rights lawyer in that case and he he was a civil rights lawyer in a sense for Michael Brelo. His job was to assert constitutional protections and frankly, judge odonnell bought it. So at the end of the day im not sure i understood what he was talking about after that. Im also in agreement with walter and joey that in terms of what judge odonnell did, in carefully looking at expert testimony, looking at the circumstances, thats the call that judges make as finders of fact and it may very well be that it is the end of it in terms of the criminality issue. But i dont think its the end of it in terms of civil potential civil claims. All right. Weve got more straight ahead. I want to continue our conversation with Avery Freeman, joey jackson and Walter Madison and ryan young who is in cleveland will be joining us right after this. If you struggle with type 2 diabetes youre certainly not alone. Fortunately, many have found a different kind of medicine that lowers blood sugar. Imagine what it would be like to love your numbers. Discover oncedaily invokana®. Its the 1 prescribed in the newest class of medicines that work with the kidneys to lower a1c. 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Saying this officer, Michael Brelo was legally excused in his participation in what turned out to be the deaths of these two people. Youre sheing live pictures youre seeing Police Officers in riot gear and youre hearing from many yelling no justice, no peace. But clearly live pictures right now. People very upset with the verdict of not guilty. For officer Michael Brelo. Lets continue our conversation with attorneys Walter Madison of cleveland, but joining me here in atlanta. Avery friedman also in cleveland and joey jackson, cnn analyst as well. Joey i want to hear from you. Because while while the judge even said it is likely that this is a case. That is you know provoking a lot of emotion, not just in cleveland but across the country, and now youre seeing images of people who are upset with this verdict. At the same time theyre being met with Police Officers in riot gear and one has to wonder whether this helps quell, maintain peace, or if this helps instigate. Sure. Fredricka. You know the judges job of course is to assess the facts before him. And make a decision on what those facts were in the court of law. I think there are certainly ways you can disagree with the judges decision if you disagree obviously with what this officer did. And there are ways that you can support it. I think that the judge certainly is mindful of the very National Climate of whats going on now. Thats why he referenced the various other instances throughout the country where you saw police engage in shooting of unarmed people. But i think ultimately another important thing to point out fredricka joey let me ask you to take a pause for a moment. We want to listen in on whats taking place outside the courthouse in cleveland. You see police in riot gear also meeting up with protesters there. Lets listen. They stand their ground here but and can you hear what theyre chanting here no justice, no peace. [ chanting ] and ramona, da nooesenise, theyre not about to let this crowd go into the Justice Center. But they have definitely pushed the Sheriff Deputies back inside. Im not sure if you have any questions for me im not sure if i can hear you. But theres still a couple of security guards left out here. Live pictures images and sound from our affiliate woio outside the Justice Center in cleveland. You saw earlier, Police Officers in riot gear have gone back into the building. But the protesters remain showing they are very upset about this verdict of not guilty of Michael Brelo, Cleveland Police officer who was one of 13 officers who shot and fired at two of passengers in a vehicle, Timothy Russell and Melissa Williams leading to their deaths we heard from the judge, judge john p. Odonnell earlier today, that its difficult to discern whose bullets rendered the last fatal moments of these two. So back with me now, Walter Madison and joey jackson, Avery Freeman and walter as you look at these images whats taking place in your home town there in cleveland. And seeing that people are not satisfied with the judges very lengthy, nearly an hourlong explanation before he rendered his final verdict. Yes. Fredricka, the people you know theyre in just complete disbelief. They know what happened. And in many instances, i dont want to get off this point. Our county prosecutor was once a judge. So he understands from the Enforcement Point of view as well as the judicial point of view. What charges are appropriate. And i wont argue with their discretion, but there was some election at some point to select one individual assign him sole responsibility for the deaths of these two people. How does that decision come about . Well thats a decision that they make exclusively. Thats their discretion they made that decision with whatever input or power there is may be. Thats something he would have to answer and i dont know if the people can particularly point to that input as where this went wrong. So are you inferring that that prosecutor would know about the real viability of that kind of charge on the one out of 13 officers prior to making that decision . We would hope our elected officials would have the experience the temperment and the wisdom and leadership to have known that. And known better. If there is a problem here in cleveland, i think a lot of the responsibility lies on those who selected just one individual. What happened here today was not unforeseeable. Avery freeman, back with us now, youre there in cleveland. Has the discussion been in your view particularly among attorney circles from the very beginning that this charge didnt seem appropriate for this crime . Or that there should have been more . Or that it was appropriate . Actually i think it was appropriate. I watched this trial periodically from the 6th of anticipate all the way up to closing arguments in early may. I saw nothing in terms of the presentation by tim mcginty who was the elected prosecutor and his professional staff, that suggested it was anything other than vigorous and professional and strong. There is nothing that we saw that would suggest anything other than the prosecutor meant business. And i think maybe what walter is saying is that the prosecutor may have known in advance that this case was going to fail if thats what hes saying. I dont agree with that. Avery, hold it right there. We want to listen in on people now taking to the streets there. They were outside the Justice Center in cleveland. Now theyre walking in the streets expressing their disappointment in this not guilty verdict. I wont support the president. [ chanting ] [ chanting ] the whole damn system is guilty as hell. Youre looking at people who are upset about this not guilty verdict for the charges of voluntary manslaughter against Cleveland Police officer Michael Brelo. Brelo as soon as he heard the verdict from the judge, he stood up but he wept and then was escorted out. Meantime people who are waiting the decision outside have gathered and theyre expressing no justice, no peace. Theyre disappointed in the verdict. Feeling that more should have happened here. Joey jackson also with us out of new york. Joey your impressions here of what public sentiment, how it can be influential in a case such as this or perhaps how it only leaves many to be hopeful that there may be more in this process of justice. Sure fredricka, although its speaking about cleveland today, certainly its a larger issue here as we saw in baltimore as we were together there, and we see you know you can talk about in new york and Staten Island and eric gardner and michael brown. But ultimately the other piece to this we should talk about, fredricka, is that this judge not only found not guilty as to of course the voluntary manslaughter charge but also found that the officer was justified on the lesser included which is the felonious assault. That is knowingly causing harm. The officer was apparently according to the judge, in reasonable fear that fear of a perception of a risk to his life was justified, and therefore, he was acquitted as to that too. I think it fuels a larger perception of you know Police Police conduct and the larger discussion of whether police are overly policing overly aggressive. We also have to be mindful to the other point, fredricka. That is that was raised in the defense in this case. That officers have yet split decision does make these actions and to engage in the decision to take a life or not take a life. And whether those actions are reasonable or unreasonable thats a discussion we have to continue to have. Lets take you live to cleveland and cnns ryan young is there. Ryan whats remarkable here too, you have a great mix of people who are protesting but youre also seeing in large part a rather more mature community. Ryan young, are you with me now . I am i got several people talking to me in my ear right now. Just a heads up fredricka. We were in the crowd after the judge talked about what happened inside of court. Once we walked outside, everyone was very angry. Were going to talk to brelos attorney outside and that took a turn for the worse. Right now you can seat officers in front of the courthouse theyre pushing the protesters down in this direction, theyre standing in the middle of the street. Theyre walking back and forth. I want to tell you a lot of people in court were wondering what was going to happen when the judge had the mannequins brought out into court. He gave such detail in terms of each shot and talked about the autopsy that was done. Can you see some Family Members in court kind of like sighing every time he made a point. You could see some people who were behind the officer sort of upset. Not sure what was going on. This took almost 35 minutes for it to go down. In the end you can see the officer start crying. We talked to to his attorney on the walk down as we were going to try to do an interview with him. He said he felt like officer brelo was tried in the media, tried in the public and didnt get a fair chance to talk about what actually happened that night in terms of the decisions that were made by the two people who were fleeing him in that car. So a lot of emotions here. We walked out with that attorney the people who were here who are protesting all mobbed around us and we actually the attorney had to leave this area for his safety and then thats when the shefrgs Sheriffs Department came and surrounded the courthouse. It was an interesting moment nothing violent so far, people just screaming no justice, no peace. Fredricka. When you mentioned that your attempted interview with the attorney for brelo took a turn for the worse. You were outside the courthouse and there were people vocal about their disappointment in the verdict. But that was the extent of it right . That is the extent of it Family Members for the two people shot out here as well. You can understand their emotion as well. And well be talking to Family Members in a short moment here. When the attorney stepped out, his whole idea was in this entire community, his whole point was these two officers or the officers involved with him, 12 all together felt like they were doing their job. They fired shots because they thought they were under risk. So there was a talk about that. He was very calm his whole point was he wants this community to heal. At the same time he wants attorney understand he feels the officers were you treated unfairly in this community. He said you have to look at these cases separately. You know how emotions work when we stepped outside, people got very hot and very upset that he was outside. And obviously just for his own safety he walked back inside. Some of the words that were being hurled at him we cant say on tv and thats people calling white power, obviously hes not a part of that. Ryan young thanks so much. Well check back in with you. I know youre going to be pursuing a Family Member and a cousin of of Melissa Williams and timt timthy russell spoke moments ago and this is what they had to say. Rene robinson . Yes. What do you think about whats happening now. Let me tell yall. Its wrong. That he wasnt charged. But all of themes that was doing all should have been on trial. Im going to tell yall something right now. We cant even call the police because were too scared because they might kill us. We dont know whats going to happen. How can you get on top of this car, and not be charged . And not be charged . You know what you did. You know youre wrong. Thats my family. Thats my first cousin. That was my cousin. That was my baby cousin. Im going to tell yall something right now. We have no justice. They killing kids. They killing women now. They just, they doing whatever they want to do and nobody is not even doing nothing about it nobody youre listening to the first cousin. No justice, no peace. No justice, no peace. Rene robinson. No justice, no peace. Thank you, sister. Yall, yall hold on to her okay . Yall hold on to her, all right . Remember were going on the west side. We going on the west side. Is there carol, carol what do you want the community to know about your cousin . You say what . What do you want the community to know about your cousin the kind of person. You know what they putting her down because she was doing drugs or whatever. That dont mean that you have to kill a person. Im going to tell you something. Why did they test the Police Officers . Why didnt they test them . They come out, they said okay and all these drugs, why yall didnt test the Police Officers. Why yall didnt test them . Let me tell you something. Judges Police Officers even the newscast may do drugs. Everybody do something. But its not, thats not a right. For you to kill them like that do you see what he did . Why is he off . You got on top of the car who does that . Because you didnt care. Now you all, you killed my Family Member he aint never coming back. But guess what he could be with his family. Youre listening to one of the cousins of the victim there is Rene Robinson clearly very upset. Melissa williams Timothy Russell were the two that were in that vehicle november 29th when Police Officers, 13 in all, opened fire and you heard from the cousin there that said all of those officers should have been on trial. It was one officer, one cleveland officer who was on trial, Michael Brelo and you heard from the judge today, who rendered his decision not guilty of voluntary manslaughter. Two counts of voluntary manslaughter. Moments okay our ryan young also caught up with Family Member who is were outside that Justice Center. Right now youre also seeing live pictures of many people who have taken to the streets. Expressing theyre upset about this verdict. Ryan i understand you spoke with a brother . Yeah hes actually standing right next to me. People have taken to the streets. Want to say it has remained peaceful out here. People are upset and they are yelling loudly. You were telling me something just a second ago. You said you will never trust i will never trust a Cleveland Police a deputy sheriff. Never again, i will never skaul them to my house for anything. If somebody come and break into my house, im taking matters into my own hand thats how it is. I know youre the brother of Melissa Williams who was in the car. Tell me first of all, when you heard the decision how did you feel . And did you believe this was going to happen anyway . Im going to be honest i believe that was going to happen. Because you know pat diaz look at all the clean police off here in cleveland, ohio. Hes a crooked lawyer hes been crooked for many years. He been he works for Cuyahoga County. He represent all Cleveland Police officers. His name is pat deangelo. Hes their attorney. When you heard the judge detail all the evidence and the reasons why he decided not to hold the officer guilty what was going through your heart as you were hearing those words . I was so hurt. I didnt know what to do. My mind went somewhere else. You know what im saying . But i hold my composure, you know. So i know where im at. You know im in cleveland so like i told my family if this case was tried in any other city that police would be in jail. Right now. We know it and they know it. So many people in the community have talked about the fact that there were so many shots fired. 137. 137, melissa had 49 bullets in her body. They say into that and until brelo got on the top of the hood of that car, they say if he wouldnt have got on the top of the hood of that car, Melissa Williams and Timothy Russell would still be living to this day. When he got on the top of the hood of that car and let that glock off, he took them up out of here. When you see what happened to the city in terms of people out here supporting your family what do you hope happens now . Because everybody wants peace what do you want to happen in the next 24 hours . Im going to be honest i want peace, too. But my whole thing, i want this case to be tried again. And like i said i would take my i would take my 10 million, i got in my account, to try this case again. In another county. In another city. Because im going to try the case again. Because im, today im going to go home talk to some lawyers, we are going to try this case again. This aint over. This is not over. He got to pay. And it is what it is man. You know he gots to pay. He gots to pay. Speak about the emotions of your family in terms my family hurt. My grandmother just had, my grandmother just fell out. Shes sick over there, she fell out. She couldnt stand up down here. When she heard the verdict. She went ballistic. This man got fault, not guilty of murder . You know there are people in the community pointing the blame at your sister and the guy that was driving the car for putting the officers lives in danger. When you hear that my sister couldnt never have put the officers life in danger because first of all, Melissa Williams wasnt driving. Timothy russell was driving. So that aint got nothing to do with my sister. And by the way, like they said early on the news talking about Timothy Russell would have stopped. They would still be living. No they wouldnt. They was already had bullets in them. They were shooting at them when they was chasing them. So what we got with this . The fact that they didnt have any weapons at all. No weapons at all. Unarmed. No weapons. So how you explain it . What happens next . Thats what i want to know. What happens next. I want to go worldwide and let them see what dirty police do. And thats what they do. They hurt everybody in this community. Im tired of my black folks dying. Oh, what he got shot for . Oh he reached. He reached for a gun or he reached for this he reached for that . Enough is enough man. You know these Cleveland Police get off every time they commit a crime. Every time they murder somebody they get off. Im dead serious, they get off. Because they got pat deangelo. You have no trust in the Justice System . I dont trust them at all. I never trusted them ever. In life. In history. Never. I tell you one thing, dont let me catch them doing nothing, im putting them on blast. Every time i see them, its going to be on youtube, facebook. They better never let me catch them doing nothing. Because theyre going to be on tv. Its real just like that. Alfredo is the brother of Melissa Williams Melissa Williams was killed. Thank you so much hes talking to us. This is a picture hes carrying around. There are several people who have pictures like this walking through the crowd. You can feel his passion, one of the things hes saying is they want to make sure theres peace in the community. The family is saying they want to press forward with their own kind of case against this officer. And i have Something Else to tell you, too. They told when i just beat the not, when i was found not guilty they accused me of threatening brelo and the security guard. They knew i drive a car. If we pull Alfredo Williams over we throw a gun in his car and a bag of dope and say he reached for it and we shoot him. And we never hear about the case. Obviously you can tell the obvious the passion that strong here fredricka, thank you, sir. People are still marching in the street as we speak. But again, so far, the officers are keeping a soft perimeter, theres no mixup in terms of anybody pushing each other right now. And can you hear the passion in his voice about his sister. And whats happened with the officers today. Ryan young, thanks so much. Were going to check back with you. Speaking not far from where you are, Cleveland Councilman zach reed. Second location on the west side. But is it more peaceful than you thought it would be . I think theyre in shock. Did you think that two innocent individuals were shot 137 times, more times than bonnie and clyde and at the end of the day, the judge came up with a decision that he came up with . I think theyre still in shock. For us weve got to uphold the law. And therefore, theyve got to uphold the law, we as elected officials have to uphold the law, we cant let this one decision define the city of cleveland. And zach i have a question for ramona. Ill give it to you word for word here. Go ahead, ramona. Ou have followed this closely and how youre always in touch with your constituents. She wants to know what theyre saying to you, and what they were saying if it was going to be a not guilty verdict and what youve heard if anything already from your constituents . Ky say in my community that most people believe that he was going to be found guilty of something. And therefore, now its my job to go back out into my community to hear from them firsthand what their reaction is. But before the verdict was rendered here today, the people that i spoke of saying that they believe that although he may not go to jail for the ultimate manslaughter that he would go to jail for something. And i thought the judge laid out a case that said that when it came to the felonious assault that burden of proof is not as great as the manslaughter. But he then came to the conclusion that we give Police Officers the standard if they ever believe that their life is in danger they have the right to do what brelo did. And thats what the judge said. That he believed brelo believed his life was in danger. So we got to go back out to our communities as elected officials and Community Leaders to say that although we may not agree wholeheartedly with any decision thats laid out, we live in a country of law and order and looting and rioting is not the way that we get to the ultimate goal of law and order and justice. Theres going to be an election in 2016. Theres going to be an election in 2017. Thats the time that we go to the ballot to show where we feel our frustration should be handled. There you go thank you so much. Ramona thank you very much for all your help. Councilman we were listening to Cleveland Councilman zach reed there who is impressing the people out in the streets protesting he said they are shocked. They are shocked about the not guilty verdict, rendered by the judge. For Cleveland Police officer Michael Brelo, who was facing two counts of voluntary manslaughter. As it relates to the shooting deaths of two people in their vehicle. That of Timothy Russell and Melissa Williams. You heard from ryan young earlier who spoke with the brother of melissa walls, who now says there wasnt much trust in the Cleveland Police before this and now at least hes speaking for himself, theres no trust whatsoever. Also with us now, former Cleveland Police chief Patrick Oliver. Chief, perhaps you can speak to the fact that people have expressed they have not trusted, they have not felt comfortable with the police and we know there was a twoyear Justice Department investigation. Which just recently revealed that after this investigation it was found that Cleveland Police use guns tasers fists and pepper spray excessively and unnecessarily. Or in retaliation. Now you have this verdict. What are people to think about Cleveland Police . Police chief, are you with me . Patrick oliver . Yes, i am here. Im wondering if you have an opinion as to what people should think about their continued mistrust. We just heard of one of the brothers of the victims who said he no longer trusts the Cleveland Police and now after a decision like today, hes going to have to take matters into his own hands. Whats your thinking or feeling about the trust or the lack thereof of Cleveland Police and even more so now, after this not guilty verdict . Well as far as the not guilty verdict is concerned. I think thats proper decision because proof beyond a reasonable doubt is about a 95 weight of probability that the person is guilty of the offense. And that type of evidence was not offered in this case. The issue of Police Legitimacy and procedural justice is really the key question. People have a lack of trust in the police when they believe their actions arent legitimate and theyre not appropriate based on the circumstances. So that is the key question here. Especially after this decision and perhaps even after the Justice Departments investigation, a twoyear investigation which recently found that Cleveland Police used guns tasers fists and pepper spray excessively and unnecessarily, or in retaliation. Your response to the kind of problem that Cleveland Police has . Well those certainly are a lot of serious issues and allegations. And the Justice Department in their investigation to determine whether theres a pattern or practice of civil Rights Violations believes that those things have occurred. And the Cleveland Police department. And so now i think the Police Department has to look at all of those things. And they will based on stipulations that are developed to determine how they can change practices in the Police Department to insure that there is procedural justice, to ensure theyre not violating civil rights and to develop a closer relationship with the community. So those are all Serious Problems and allegations, yes. Were there practices and problems that you felt when you were police chief that did not go addressed or needed still to be addressed, how different is it today than when you were police chief . Well thats a little difficult to say. That was about 21 years ago. And certainly there were problems and challenges in the Police Department then. But during my tenure there, i didnt see a number of incidents that rose to this level. So in police circles today, i mean given you were police chief many years ago, but clearly many of your contraries or colleagues are still Police Officers or still very much entrenched in the Police Community. What have been the discussions among colleagues about the state of Cleveland Police . Cleveland police want to get better and they want to work with the Justice Department to try to get better. They are very concerned about improving the relationship in the community. They are very concerned about the very few officers they believe they have that make a pattern or practice of violating civil rights. I know chief williams and his command staff is very concerned about these things and wants to address them. Sandthis decision in your view how does this impact policing in cleveland . I think it has a negative impact on policing in cleveland because when the public doesnt perceive that policingen is done in a legitimate way or that they can get procedural justice, it is going to have a negative impact on policing. No question the Police Department and the community will be negatively impacted based on how many in the communities, minority perceive this decision. This isnt the only case thats put cleveland in the spotlight recently as it pertains to police conduct. There is still the ongoing case of tamir rice the young man who was shot by police he was holding a toy gun. Police thought he was wielding a real gun and that Police Officers who administered that fatal shot still has ha not been interviewed. These two cases are very different. But since that tamir rice case is still ongoing, does this underscore one of the problems or practices in your view that needs reform there in cleveland. Is this systemic . This an example of a systemic problem . I certainly think it needs review. I think the key issue is one of Police Tactics and sort of how do you properly engage Police Tactics during a potential shooting incident. So it is a concern. No question about it. And then what now . We heard that question being asked by the brother of Melissa Williams who said you know i want to know what now . What now when it means a crime or problem has occurred . Can anyone in the community feel that they have the confidence to call Cleveland Police . Can they count on them. In his words, he says hes willing to take matters into his own hands. What do you say to people who feel that way . They need to approach the Police Department. Hopefully the police will engage them to try to get involved in the quality and scope of police services. In the spirit sf Community Based policing it is really a call for police and community to Work Together to prevent, reduce and solve crime. Because crime is a community problem. Police give full time and attention to responsibility that really incumbent upon every person in the community. What do you want to see next . I think that the Cleveland Police would probably benefit from a Police Management audit, a top to bottom review their operations and administration to look at both the quality and scope of police services. And i would like to see them fully engage the community in an ongoing dialogue and make them a part of how policing is done. I think that would be helpful. I suspect that they are at least working on the latter the Community Engagement piece. Do you feel it will mean an outside agency perhaps even outside of ohio . We know the Justice Department released its report recently but is this a matter that a federal agency needs to take part in or do you think this strictly as a contemporary state fellow state that should get involved or third party from some other city municipality. I think it needs to be a third party involved as far as management is concerned. Get Police Practices experts who can do that top to bottom review. As far as the federal government well theyre already involved so they will be negotiating stipulations that will be placed in either a Consent Decree or memorandum of agreement. Former Cleveland Police chief Patrick Oliver thank you so much for your time and insight. Appreciate it. Well have much more right after this. If you struggle with type 2 diabetes youre certainly not alone. Fortunately, many have found a different kind of medicine that lowers blood sugar. Imagine what it would be like to love your numbers. Discover oncedaily invokana®. Its the 1 prescribed in the newest class of medicines that work with the kidneys to lower a1c. Invokana® is used along with diet and exercise to significantly lower blood sugar in adults with type 2 diabetes. Its a oncedaily pill that works around the clock. Heres how the kidneys allow sugar to be absorbed back into the body. Invokana® reduces the amount of sugar allowed back in and sends some sugar out through the process of urination. And while its not for weight loss, it may help you lose weight. Invokana® can cause important side effects including dehydration, which may cause you to feel dizzy, faint, lightheaded, or weak especially when you stand up. 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Leaving your job to start your own thing. Having a kid when you still feel like a kid. Signing a 30year mortgage on a home. Scary sure but no match for our colossal selfbelief. Were supposed to do scary. Without scary, we dont get to be brave. Buy in. Quickenloans home buy. Refi. Power. Hello again, everyone. Thanks so much for joining me. Im Fredricka Whitfield in the newsroom. Breaking news now. A Police Officer in cleveland found not guilty of all charges in the deaths of an unarmed man and woman in cleveland. The verdict read just moments ago. Michael brelo was 1 of 13 officers who fired 137 shots killing Timothy Russell and Melissa Williams after a police chase in 2012. Brelo jumped on to the hood of the car and fired into the windshield at the time. Earlier today judge john p. Odonnell said the officer was legally excused. Here is his verdict. I therefore find the defendant not guilty of counts 1 and 2 as indicted. The state did prove the lesser included offense of felonious assault on both counts by demonstrating beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant knowingly caused serious physical harm to both victims. But the defendant proved by a preponderance of the evidence that he is legally excused from liability for those crimes because he cause kd the serious physical harm of the victims in a constitutionally reasonable effort to end an objectively reasonable perception that he and the others present were threatened by russell and williams with imminent serious bodily harm. I therefore also find the defendant not guilty of felonious assault of the lesser included offense on both indicted counts and the defendant is discharged. Thank you. You see there cleveland officer, Michael Brelo, tearfully relieved there as the judge said he is legally excused from liability. A verdict not sitting well with many people there in the cleveland community. Thats why so many have taken to the streets. Many were right outside the Justice Center and have now taken their protests in the streets. Our ryan young is also there in cleveland. Ryan will also be joined by a host of great legal minds here Walter Madison, joey jackson, Avery Friedman in a moment. But first set the stage for us. Theyre all poised and ready. Ryan set the stage for us and give us an idea what people are saying and where they are taking their protests. Reporter well right now this protest is sort of muted itself. If you look behind me you can see the small crowd thats left here. It was a lot larger about a halfhour ago. A lot more passionate with people in the street. We did see Family Members from both of the people who were shot in that car. One of them joined us live here on cnn to talk about how they have a mistrust for the Police Department. But to set the scene and sit there in the courtroom as we were doing, i was watching Michael Brelo. Most of the time his foot was tapping while the judge was talking. You could see how he was sort of nervous before this judgment was read. Then the judge did something that were seeing over and over now. Kind of a changing of the court system where you see the judge come from behind the bench and actually explain and talk about all the shots that were fired and went through that without a reasonable doubt that he could not show that Michael Brelo had fired shots that would have looked like they were going to cause Involuntary Manslaughter. There were a lot of people in the courtroom who were paying attention to this because obviously when you see him going through that detailed description of what happened you get an idea that this judge wanted to make sure the community understood his ruling. In fact he looked at the courtroom and said he wanted to make sure that the mistrust that is in the black community for the courtroom is not something that spreads in terms of just this case. He wanted this case to be looked at just as this one, not something attached that ferguson not something attached to baltimore or charleston. He mentioned these cities by name. As i step out of the way here this is also the jail facility. We can now hear people inmates who are beating on the windows and people who are in this protest are screaming out loud. But we tried to walk outside. There were people who were obviously wanting to have their voices heard. They started yelling. At one point they pressed towards the Justice Center. Officers standing by here came out and decided to flank the building. Theyre still here. No one can go inside the Justice Center. It did remain peaceful. Throughout the city we havent seen the large number of officers that you think you may see. The chants and everybody who was marching before seemed to have sort of gone away for now. Were told later on there will be another march but not sure of that location just yet. Ryan whats interesting, too, when the officers came out with their riot gear they were met by protesters right outside the door. Then they retreated as if to say, were here were not going to stand in the way of your protests or even show any signs of intimidation. But were here. Then they retreated inside. It seems that that is still the case right now. No presence of the heavily armored Police Officers right out there among the protesters. Right . Reporter well so far, so good. Ill just walk this way, show you this. A police car is right here. You will see officers casually standing by. Theres not that sort of backandforth in the officers face yelling at them. This seems to be more of a concentrated effort was people are standing in the middle of the street. Officers are fine blocking the road here and allowing people to protest in the street here. Once again i have heard people say they are going to take to the streets and try to block traffic in other places. So far that hasnt happened. We have heard there is a command center set up in case anything takes place this evening. But everyone here seems to be not only peaceful but sort of like you can hear the tone has gone away. Chanting is not going on here. Nobody being sprayed with pepper spray or no one being arrested so far. Quickly, ryan is there a final destination for many of the protesters who have taken to the streets who are walking in these downtown streets . Reporter you know we tried to ask that question. It doesnt seem like they are pea a coalition so no one seems to know whats happening next. Checking twitter, seeing what people have been reacting to to see if theres something planned for later. A lot of people were worried about their professional games tomorrow. There is Eastern Conference Finals with the nba. I think the indians are playing. There was talk maybe people would go protest outside those games. Community leaders here have been working with weeks for people to make sure this was calmed down to make sure people remain peaceful. Everyone had even been saying they dont want this to be the next ferguson they dont want this to be the next baltimore. So those words have been said throughout the community and efforts have been put in place to make sure things are really buttoned up here. Especially with the judge taking all that time to explain this. People are not happy about this ones who are here. But you can obviously understand it is a divided Community Whether it comes to this decision because some people are going to side with the officers who were involved in this case. Ryan young, thanks so much. Well check back with you. Joining us right now, democratic congresswoman marsha fudge on the phone with us. Congresswoman, give me your response to this verdict and what you think is next. Well first off, thank you for having me. Let me just say that certainly im disappointed by the verdict. Being an attorney i understand how the judicial system works and i listened to the way that the judge detailed it and i respect his opinion, i just happen to disagree with it. Clearly i think that as we talk about his determination that there had not been proof beyond a reasonable doubt. I think thats probably right. But what happens in our community is that some people get the benefit of the doubt and others do not. I mean we have an officer who received the benefit of the doubt. Where too often people in the Africanamerican Community do not so we are treated very very differently by the judicial system. And it is unfortunate that we are at a time in this country when these racial tensions are so high. And when we can have a Court Verdict that once again holds no one accountable for the death of two unarmed africanamerican people. I think what happens Going Forward is that there will be those who will express their disappointment and their anger. I hope that they do it in a very productive and peaceful way. I want to hear what they have to say. And i would hope that our communities, our Police Officers our mayors would want to hear what these people have to say as well because they are all people we represent. I want to hear their voices. I just want them to do it in a constructive and productive way. We understand the mayor will be speaking at 1 00 so we will take that live. Meantime just to reiterate the sentiment that you just expressed here live earlier you released a statement and saying this in written word the verdict is another chilling reminder of a broken relationship between the Cleveland Police department and the community it serves today. We have been told yet again our lives have no value. By any measure, firing of more than 100 rounds of ammunition by the Cleveland Police department toward twop unarmed citizens was extreme, excessive and unnecessary. While you say you do respect the opinion of the judge, you say you are disappointed and you talk about that benefit of the doubt. So moving forward in your view do you see a real push for reform so that as you see it the benefit of the doubt is extended not just to Police Officers but to citizens . Oh absolutely have to see that you know we have to hope that we can make a change. Any time a Community Weeks ago our community said he would get off. I mean there is so little confidence in the judicial sis dem in this system in this country as it relation to color and people who are poor. That if we dont find a way to build some confidence we have more and more of these situations and then we see more anger. We have to find a way to reform the system. We talk about criminal Justice Reform all the too imin washington. We have to make it happen and we need Police Officers as well as the citizens to come together to try to make it happen. Congresswoman marcia fudge, thank you so much for your time. Appreciate it. Well have much more on this breaking news right after this. I am totally blind. I lost my sight in afghanistan but it doesnt hold me back. I go through periods where its hard to sleep at night and stay awake during the day. Non24 is a circadian rhythm disorder that affects up to 70 of people who are totally blind. Talk to your doctor about your symptoms and learn more by calling 8448442424. Or visit my24info. Com. Who. Is this . hi, i am heinz new mustard. Hi na na na na shes just jealous because you have better taste. Whatever. Hey. Keep your chin up. For years, heinz ketchup has been with the wrong mustard. Well, not anymore. Introducing heinz new better tasting yellow mustard. Mmm some weed killers are overzealous. They even destroy your lawn. Ortho weed b gon kills weeds. Not lawns. 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While in cleveland, some people have taken to the streets expressing their outrage, their disappointment in a judges decision of a not guilty verdict for Cleveland Police officer Michael Brelo in the shooting deaths of two unarmed people in their vehicle. We also have some analysis right now of the case and why the judge rendered this decision. The justification that he made. Walter madison is an attorney in cleveland. He happens to represent the tamir rice family. Hes with us now here in the atlanta studio. Joey jackson in new york. Our cnn legal analyst. And Avery Friedman also in cleveland joining us now and momentarily will also be met by cnn Law Enforcement animal cyst cedric ander. Marcia fudge said moments ago there is a benefit of the doubt extended to Police Officers customarily in so many Police Related shootings but the same does not go for the victims who are mostly black in communities in black communities where circumstances are very similar to what we saw here in the Michael Brelo case. Does she make a good point in that reform has to come not just within the Police Department but community as a whole . Municipalities . In state . In Law Enforcement as a whole. Well shes right conceptually. I think what a lot of the politicians have been missing is there will shortly be a plan in place in dealing with Excessive Force, coming out of that 55page Justice Department report. And it is through the United States Attorneys Office through the department of justice, Civil Rights Division. Ultimately there will be a Consent Order in which there will be oversight over the department and it will address Community Policing. It will address relations between the police and the community. And on top of that, fredricka, there are going to be thousands of Greater Clevelanders shortly downtown if not within a day, within a day or two representing black and white churches and Community Organizations rallying for peace. So both in terms of the community itself and the federal government Justice Department u. S. Attorney we are going to see some changes so Something Like Michael Brelo will never happen again at a Community Like this. Joey in new york here you have this decision after a twoyear investigation from the Justice Department and then just days later you would have a decision that we saw this morning. Clearly the Justice Department study did not impact or in any way influence this judge. The judge said especially based on the medical examiners testimony and report it was difficult to discern from whoms bullets caused the fatal blow to these two people. Thats right, fredricka. Of course the other part of this decision it was really in three parts. The first part in saying not guilty as to the manslaughter was saying there is a causation issue. To the extent that i dont know that brelo fired the fatal blow i find him not guilty then of course the second part saying you know what . The people have established, that is the prosecutor beyond a reasonable doubt that he engaged in flowness a essthrowness assault xwlk flownelonious assault. If an officer is at risk for his life can he shoot. There is an awful lot of discretion officers have in patrolling the street. Thats where i think the broader discussion needs to lead to. How can that discretion be used. Certainly Police Officers keep us safe they fear for their lives but those split second judgments can take lives of unarmed people. So when you foster a dialogue between the community, between the police between clergy between elected officials, if you can bridge the gap of trust, if you can have officer do Community Policing respecting the police absolutely but police respecting the community. I think it can go a long way at preventing instances like there from happening moving forward. Cnn Law Enforcement analyst Cedric Alexander is now joining us in the conversation as well. When you hear the judge good to see you. When you hear the judge say that he was legally excused from liability and also underscoring that when an officers life is in jeopardy force may happen. And in this case it did. But what do you suppose a verdict like this especially when you are talkings about two unarmed citizens in their vehicle, a judgment like this. How does it impact the relationship between the community and police not just in cleveland but now nationwide . Well i think it is going to be hard for the general public to understand exactly what that means. How do you interpret it . And how do they interpret it you should the circumstances. Well quite frankly, not being a legal analyst but being able to say from a Law Enforcement perspective i think in some ways i get it. But the laws vary from state to state of course. But in this particular set of circumstances, i think that woo were going to need to do fredricka, is make sure people in the public understands what this means. There are protesters in the streets, these citizens saying we dont understand this. How do you justify how do you listen to testimony and hear the evidence that an officer, 1 of 13 gets on the hood of a car and unloads and in the end 137 bullets fired, two people unarmed. What you just asked is very loaded. It is loaded in this sense. If you look at the circumstances of this case the high drama of it number of shots that was fired, Police Officer jumping on top of a car, firing shots directly into the car with these subjects in it. And at the same time as well too, now here we are with a not guilty verdict. That is what the court has deemed. We must respect that whether we like it or not. We have to respect it. It went through the judicial process. There was due process in this case. Whatever is to be argued afterward will be argued. But to your question though i think it is very important that every community, particularly in cleveland at this very moment is that Community Leaders and those that are attached to that Community Help Community Folks to understand here is what the law means as stated by the judge. People have to get on the ground in that community in cleveland and again articulate and help people understand what happened here this morning in this case. Does it go much further back . When you talk about as we heard from the congresswoman, marcia fudge, who said Police Officers are typically given the benefit of the doubt so there is already this standard of going into this case well they must have been protecting their lives, whereas the two victims in this case the two people who were in that vehicle who were vic tms of the shooting who consequently lost their lives, they werent given that benefit of the doubt. The congresswoman says a message is being sent oftentimes when you have Police Related cases like this. Then there results an eye quital the message is sent that some lives matter more than others. There is a certain protection that Police Officers have. Fredricka, i disagree cedric. You know perception is very important. And quoting Justice Felix frankfurter, he said justice must match the perception of justice for the people. What you see, people do not perceive that theyre receiving justice. So much so that our governor has signed executive order developing a commission to bridge the gap between africanamericans and Law Enforcement. And its necessary because we just dont perceive that were getting the benefit of the doubt or a full justice. Now you take this situation. What people dont understand are the histrionics that go into it. The decision was made to prosecute one individual for Involuntary Manslaughter in the state of ohio. Although there were many others who, as the judge indicated himself, may have actually set this chain of events which is the death into motion. But theyre not here to stand liability. So based upon what the judge has to consider he made the decision to acquit. Thats understandable. But what the people are being failed in this respect of what charges are being all of the officers are being held responsible for. There could have been other charges brought, other officers to stand trial. Moreover there were three witnesses, officers who exercised the fifth amendment, they took the fifth. State could have given them immunity. I wonder if you can respond to that. It goes back to the prosecutor and they decided there was one person but does that send a message instead of a dozen officers who were involved one officer. And if that one officer is the last officer on the scene, and is facing these charges, that it likely a, sends a message about the culpability or the involvement of the others or lack thereof, or it says that this will create a likelihood that this officer will not be found guilty. Well heres the here is the real dilemma were in. Were trying to take this one particular case in cleveland, which is of grave concern to all of us. I get it. I understand that. But were also looking we talk about perception. Were looking at everything thats occurred particularly the last year following mike brown shooting. So were looking through this lens of just Bad Police Behavior period. But you really have to look at each case individually. I cannot speak legally to the process itself. Well the judge brought up all the other cases but really the citizens of cleveland when theyre protesting theyre only talking about this one. Right. Yes and no. Yes and no. Because theyre not immune to the other cases that have occurred across the country, shall prior to their shooting there in cleveland or after. But i think the important thing here ill go back to this again. Youre right, perception is everything. But perception is in the eye of the beholder so i may perceive it one way, you may perceive it another. A lot of that is based on the community you live in what your demographic or what your experience may happen to be. Thats what determines a perception. So not to save an argument because im not going to argue about there. My point is very clear here is that what we have in cleveland at this very moment is a community that must be talked to by its local leadership so that people have an opportunity to better understand what happened in that judicial process there in cleveland. Okay. I want to bring in avery and joey. Theyre still part of this conversation. Avery in cleveland, joey in new york. Avery, based on what youre hearing in this conversation is there a problem that is systemic . Is it a problem of perception in your view . Or is it Something Else . Well i think perception is a critical part of it. And actually, thats part of the 55page civil rights Justice Department report. Unless there is community understanding, police are not going to be effective. The focus in the report in terms of what is on the horizon is better Police Community policing and a number of mechanisms that will connect up and an understanding to try to neutralize a negative perception. Look there are bad cops there are bad lawyers, there are bad everything. But the bottom line here is that there has to be a plan. And as i mentioned to you, the Greater Cleveland congregations churches will all be downtown addressing a rally of peace and more importantly, in terms of solving the problem, the fact that the u. S. Attorney and the Justice Department are essentially going to hold on to the Police Department and bring about those changes will have a lot to do with changing perception. Joey all of these words are great. As cedric put it there are so many different ways in which to look at it. But the bottom line when you hear from those protesters in the street the interpretation is here we go again, another policeinvolved shooting. Unarmed people. Dead. Police officer walks. And thats right. And thats whats really fueling the larger debate and larger discussion about policing about community, about bridging the gap, about what the congresswoman said about the issue of trust. Oh we know hes going to get off because thats how the community feels. So when you get to that level you know something is amiss. But, fredricka, whenever you talk about the issue of perception the problem is that in the law, perception is reality. Why. Because it comes down to an officers judgment on that street. Do you perceive there to be a threat. Well if you perceive there to be a threat that is your reality and then is your response proportionate to that threat. So it comes down to training. It comes down to knowing the community. It comes down to community respecting the police and the police respecting the community. How in the world is that going to be corrected or fixed . That just seems thats just colossal. Were talking about what people are conditioned to believe or see when they see someone, avery, and just as cedric put it it varies as personalities vary. People vary. Everyones going to see someone differently and interpret it. I think were still at a starting place in this country that were going to have to find that beginning. Because very simply police needs, Community Needs police. So yes, it seems like one big heavy lift of all this that continues to come one right behind the other. Today in the minds of many people certainly this is not going to reflect that Law Enforcement as a community is moving forward. It is a challenge that we have to overcome but reality of it is that we have to move towards that. The whole idea quite frankly, behind the whole 121 21st Century Task Force, if you were to look at that document and i encourage people in Law Enforcement across the country to go to the website on the department of justice, pull that document and read it. Because in there is a road map to help us get in this country where we need to be. It is not the end all, the be all. But it is a jumpingoff point. Hold it right there, because were going to take a short break. I want to pick it up just right there when we come right back right after this. No artificial flavors, colors sweeteners preservatives, and no artificial smiles. Because clean dressings, taste better. Here at friskies, cats are in charge of approving every new recipe. Because its cats who know best what cats like to eat. Up today, new friskies 7. Were trying seven catfavorite flavors all in one dish. Now for the moment of truth. Yep, looks like its time to share what our cats love with your cats. New friskies 7. For cats. By cats. I love making sunday dinners. But when my back hurt, cooking all day. Forget about it. Tylenol was ok, but it was 6 pills a day. But aleve is just 2 pills all day. And now, im back aleve. Welcome back. Reaction is pouring in now to the not guilty verdict rendered for this Cleveland Police officer right here Michael Brelo. Youll see in a matter of moments he will be reduced to tears when the judge issued not guilty on two counts of voluntary manslaughter in the deaths of Timothy Russell and Melissa Williams back in november 29th of 2012. They were in their vehicle when more than 130 shots were fired by 13 Police Officers in all killing those two who were unarmed. But in the end one officer with be Michael Brelo, faced two counts of voluntary manslaughter and the judge said not guilty. Now we have reaction from Timothy Russells reaction michelle. This is what she said moments ago. So all of that the police has drummed up a story about the gun, about using the car as a weapon that is not true. I know that 100 . Is not true. And for the judge and for the court and the police to keep relying strictly on the story from the officers is not fair. It is not fair to my family. Its not fair to tim and melissa. Because there is another side to this story which never came out. Were only looking at what the officers have said. Its never dawned on anybody in the courtroom or the judge that maybe these officers arent being honest. Maybe theyre not being forthcoming. Maybe their story is not true. And i just i mean that really hurts me because when he got up there, it made it sound like the officer brelo did everything that he was supposed to do and he did it right. But i know that he couldnt have. He didnt. I feel like they were chasing after tim and melissa that night. They were angry. You cant tell me that those officers were not angry at the fact that tim and melissa did not pull over. Now whatever reason they didnt pull over we dont know. But what i can say is that it they did not deserve to die for fleeing and eluding. Thats not a death sentence. So we dont know why they didnt pull over but i can tell you what i do know. I know that those officers were upset. Adrenalin was flowing. By the time they reached, caught up to tim and melissa in that parking lot, they simply let them have it. And thats why you see 65 cars chasing after two just one with two people. One car. You got 65 officers involved. That makes no sense. The reason being is because they had mob mentality. They were after them with a vengeance. And once they caught up to them thats you heard an officer make a comment, its cowboy and indians now. Why would you say that if you dont have malice or intent in your heart to do harm . They knew that night that once they caught up to tim and melissa that they were going to let them have it and thats exactly what happened. There was no pause or warning, put your hands up get out the car, get on the ground. They didnt offer any of that. They simply got out and started shooting. Thats what happened. All right. Emphatic there, Michelle Russell, the sister of Timothy Russell. He and Timothy Russell and Melissa Williams were in that vehicle unarmed and they were shot to death. But the judge this morning said it was difficult to discern which bullets caused the fatality of these two, and thereby helping to justify that Michael Brelo, the Cleveland Police officers the only 1 of 13 Police Officers who fired shots, he was found not guilty of voluntary manslaughter. The judge saying he was legally excused from liability. Youre hearing from Michelle Russell there who says we were talking about it earlier with our panel of experts the benefit of the doubt. The officers had their version of accounts but those two people who died werent able to articulate their version of events. Back with me now, an incredible panel we have with us. Walter madison, cleveland attorney. He also happens to represent the family of tamir rice. Joey jackson in new york our cnn legal analyst. Avery friedman also in cleveland. And with us now, cnn Law Enforcement analyst cred dick zand Cedric Alexander. It is a perfect segue into perception of the Police Officers saying it is like cowboys and indians. There is a perception with that along with the benefit of the doubt. She underscored that point that you two were about to have an exchange of words on which is the officers have their account. Michelle russell says they were not honest. And it was not fair. Pick up from where we left us cedric. You were making the point about perception and what it is to be an officer in a situation like this splitsecond decisions. Then walter i want you to pick up from where you were about to pick up earlier. Well clearly, one of the issues thats been long standing in cleveland and many cities across america but in this case cleveland this morning, this afternoon, fredricka, is this is that there has been a lot of discontent and separation and not a relationship between that community and that Police Department. That has been long standing. As you may well know theyve been under watchful eye of the Justice Department for a number of years now. So there is a lot of work in cleveland thats going to have to be done moving forward. Because with a statement such as cowboys versus indians is made that is just not the type of statement you make in the day of the 21st century in any regard. Hold it right there. Again, just when you are about to express yourself. This is the prosecutor of the county who imposed these charges had this to say. Whether there is a confrontation. Police now are the ones forced to deal with the mentally ill and disturbed and out of control daily. Exhaustive specialized training protocols and additional Police Officers are needed. Recent cases and lawsuits in this city alone have shown us that there is a need to improve our performance and capability there. It will be costeffective in the lounge run when we look at our lawsuits that have been paid out. The just the confidence and just the fairness and just the humanity of it in not killing the mentally ill when it is avoidable and recognizable. When the hints an signs are there. In the aftermath of this incident mayor jackson wisely invited the department of justice back to cleveland to evaluate its divisional place. These discussions and negotiations continue. But the end results should be a better Trained Police force that looks to deescalate dangerous situations build bridges toss community and embrace a new culture of accountability. Let me say at this point that no one appreciates or loves the police more than prosecutors. Every time i drive through the graveyard i think of the burials i have been to and the friends i have lost and the people who have dedicated their lives to the city. Sometimes lost their lives in the line of duty. Do not mistake this for some antipolice prosecution. This is a pro hispolice prosecution. Pro citizen prosecution and i appreciate are the support that i have received from the great number of police on the job and retired, throughout this effort who recognize that this will make a better Police Department if we had better discipline if we have better supervision, better training and more numbers numbers. Cleveland has agreed to have an independent Police Agency handle future use of Deadly Force Investigations. This office encourages all cities in this county to do likewise. We are looking at patterns across the country. We have patterned from taking cities in the southwest as our actual pattern. Weve already done it successfully. The Cuyahoga County sheriff has agreed to assume this important responsibility for cleveland and a task force has been formed to handle these use of Deadly Force Investigations. We appreciate the funding of Cuyahoga County and the executive boost this has provided this. To do these independent investigations you have seen from this trial and others that it takes a great deal of time and investigation to do the scientific and other investigation necessary to examine a case. The city of cleveland agreed to use the ohio criminal bureau rf investigation to investigate this middle school case. The bureau of investigation did a tremendous job at great time and expense. At times there were 25 to 40 individual detectives working on this case. I want to personally thank attorney general mike dewine and his commitment to justice. It is greatly appreciated. He has shown a commitment to justice throughout this state. Hes been a great attorney general. He has shown his commitment to hes been like no other attorney general in my lifetime. And he has demonstrated money, commitment time and manpower to prosecute whether it be deadly force cases or the rape kit cases which hes made ohio the leader in the nation in solving these untested rape kits. Lesson number nine. Better laws can discourage felony high speed failure to comply chases and their subsequent violent endings by proposing higher and mandatory penalties on offenders. I led a law in the late 90s that made some mandatory penalties. Thats since been reduced. We are seeking to have the higher penalty reimposed. We also need laws that mandate safer policies and more accountability from Police Departments in highspeed chases. It creates accountability and incentive. These laws will introduce dangers to moatists andtorists and Police Officers. Weve never seen a highspeed chase like this before. Lesson number ten, the final lesson ill cite today that we appreciate strong leadership and sound Decision Making within the Police Department by those sergeants and lieutenants who are actually in the field and have responsibility to call off unduly dangerous pursuits is absolutely essential. They have to have control. These supervisors must carefully weigh the risk to the public versus the real danger imposed by a fleeing suspect. Can Police Identify the offender by other means via license plates. Is this a traffic ticket or a murder hes fleeing. Is it day or night. Light or heavy traffic. The distance covered. The speeds. Et cetera. Most important, is the offense or offender being chase kd worth the real risk of killing innocent civilians or other police. These are difficult decisions that must be made in the field. Thats why theres rules and regulations regarding numbers of officers that can be involved and how closely they should be monitored. Each individual Police Officers can call off his or her own chase. In this case many officers did and we appreciate the fact and it should be noted that Police Officers and leaders in the first, fourth and fifth districts refused to allow its own cars to join this massive chase that grew out of control on november 29th. Going forward, the policy this office will continue to be all use of deadly force cases by police in Cuyahoga County will be reviewed and decided by the grand jury as was this case. After a complete and thorough investigation, the results will be presented to the grand jury and any additional evidence from the grand jury grand jurys desire to have additional evidence will be obtained and presented to them as requested. If they that grand jury believes that the civilian death at the hands of the police was not a justifiable use of deadly force under ohio law, and the guidelines created by the Supreme Court of the United States then the grand jury will bring charges against those involved and we will prosecute. This ultimately in all cases or thus ultimately in all cases, the decision will go back to the people. It is also the policy of this office to make public the independent investigations of Police Actions. We did so in this case with the bci investigation. A voluminous accounting of the investigation. Our pursuit of justice for Timothy Russell and Melissa Williams is not over. Five Cleveland Police supervisors have been charged with dereliction of duty by the grand jury and will be prosecuted by this office for failing to control the reckless and potentially Deadly Police clas that chase that ensued in this case. We look forward to presenting another vigorous prosecution on behalf of the state of ohio the people of Cuyahoga County and the victims families. Todays verdict is part of a sea of change that began over two years ago with this case and others across the nation. This case prompted the United States department of justice and Governor John Kasich and the attorney general mike dewine to investigate the patterns and practices of Police Departments including clevelands around the state. These investigations have highlighted areas where help is needed or deficiencies exist, including training, accountability and transparentcytransparency. Although not fully implemented, changes for the better have already begun. There is a different country than it was 2 1 2 years ago on november 29th. The department of justice Investigation Continues and we are confidence practices will improve and benefit the city of cleveland from whatever the results of their findings and agreement is. Our goal is to improve the quality of justice that our citizens receive. This tragic experience has already forced a culture change within the division of police and a needed recompassion of the use of dedzly force. The end result will be less secrecy, additional transparency and accountability. Citizens and police themselves will be the safer for it. This was a challenging case no doubt. But i would not hesitate to do it again if the facts and the law demand it. I was proud of our effort to seek justice in this case and we will continue to seek justice on behalf of the people. I am i do not want to answer questions that are sought to inflame the situation. So i will entertain questions through emails. And if anybody has an email we will carefully respond to it. I thank you for covering this case. Joe frolic will give you the email address to send it to. And i thank you very much and conclude this press conference. Interesting. That from the Cuyahoga County ohio prosecutor Timothy Mcginty who said todays verdict from the judge rendering a not guilty verdict of voluntary manslaughter for the Cleveland Police officer Michael Brelo he says represents a sea change and he says that there have been changes for the better that have already begun in cleveland especially as a result of the Justice Departments investigation. However, he was not going to entertain any questions. He says any questions have to come to him via email. And then there will be followup. Well follow up with a healthy discussion with my legal and Law Enforcement analysts right after we take this short break. Mike fincham was diagnosed with Colorectal Cancer 2 years ago. It was a priority for mike that he continue to be there for his family throughout his treatment continuing to live the life he loves. Thats why he chose Cancer Treatment centers of america. There he found a comprehensive array of Therapeutic Options all under the same roof designed to fight his cancer boost his energy and help him maintain his strength during treatment. Mike and his Clinical Team developed a plan just for him. This is integrative cancer care. This is how mike fincham fights cancer. Cancer Treatment Centers of america. For more information go to cancercenter. Com Appointments Available now. With xfinity from comcast you can manage your account anytime, anywhere on any device. Just sign into my account to pay bills manage Service Appointments and find answers to your questions. You can even check your connection status on your phone. Now its easier than ever to manage your account. Get started at xfinity. Com myaccount welcome back. Breaking news were following. A not guilty verdict for a Cleveland Police officer involved in the shooting deaths of two unarmed passengers of a vehicle. Now you are looking at the setup of a press conference that will get under way ten minutes from now involving the mayor of cleveland, frank jackson. We just heard momentarily from actually youre seeing live pictures again. These are protesters who are taking to the streets who are expressing their dislike. They are upset about this not guilty verdict found today expressed by the judge in the case. Michael brelo waived his right to a jury trial and instead said judge only. And the judge rendered his not guilty verdict today. This on the heels of the Justice Department investigation, a twoyear investigation look looking into the practices of Cleveland Police saying a lot of work needs to be done. You heard from the prosecutor of Cuyahoga County who said todays verdict and this case represent a sea change. Following that Justice Department investigation and now were also hearing the Justice Department will review the testimony and the judgment of this case and for that lets go to washington, d. C. Where athena jones is on that. Athena tell us more about what will happen from that review. Reporter hi fredricka. We havent yet heard a comment from the white house here but we did hear from the head of the Justice Departments Civil Rights Division. Heres part of what she has to say. We will now review the testimony and evidence presented in the state trial. We will continue our assessment review all available Legal Options and will collaboratively determined what if any additional steps are available and appropriate given the requirements and littleationmitations of the applicable laws in the federal judicial system. We note from the same statement that the u. S. Attorneys office the fbi and the Civil Rights Division of the Justice Department have been following this case monitoring this investigation since it began after those events back in november of 2012. One thing i want to add that you mentioned, we already know late last year that a twoyear investigation into the Cleveland Police department by the Justice Department found a pattern of Excessive Force. This is all coming in that context. Thats part of the reason you are seeing some of the protests. This is of course an issue thats really lyly come to the forefront in recent weeks and months years really whether it comes to a series of events whether in baltimore or ferguson Staten Island new york and now here issues over accusations of use of Excessive Force by the police. A lot of distrust of the Justice System when it comes to dealing with that. Athena is that the feeling . This is not customary that the Justice Department would investigate a case following a verdict all of the time. But is it doing so particularly because there was already the Justice Department probe of Cleveland Police. Its unclear right now what all of the reasons are but we do know that this department was under scrutiny. So it is not entirely surprising that the doj would say, look were going to review this. That review may not result in further action but they know that this is an issue that needs a lot of attention. You mentioned this was after the verdict. Of course we saw recently in baltimore that even before any trial has taken place the mayor there asked for the department of justice to get involved in investigating that citys Police Department. So this is an issue that is very much on the minds of not only folks here at the white house but also of course at the Justice Department and in the cities where these problems are taking place, fredricka. Okay. Athena jones, thank you so much. Again, weve been hearing from people relatives of the two unarmed people who were in that vehicle. Weve been hearing from them all morning long after the judge rendered that decision. Here now is more of an interview with one of the Family Members. No violence no hate. You know accept the verdict that judge odonnell said. But you know just keep violence down and if you want to march or whatever protest, do that. But no violence. Please. I know thats something my brother would want. Because he used to get on me sometimes saying dont do that dont do that. I used to be the hardheaded one and the rough one in the family. They used to always come to me when there was a fight or anything. Tim the one got me to go clurnlg. He changed me inside. So and i see. God said if you only let me come into your life and change your ways you know youll be a better person. Ive done that because ive been a lot of stuff, also. Dealing with the police and running from them on my motorcycle. Doing all kind of things. But after that i gave myself to god and he really is the litd ofght of my life. This family is distraught. Thats the brother of Timothy Russell. He and Melissa Williams were the unarmed people in that chevy malibu vehicle which ended up being target practice thats the description that Michelle Russell actually gave the sister of Timothy Russell, on that november 24th. And today the judge rendered a not guilty verdict for voluntary manslaughter in the deaths of those two unarmed people. We want to continue our conversation now about what next how the judge came about this decision the legal road ahead. Back with me now, a very sizable panel. We may have to interrupt because about four minutes from now we understand the mayor of cleveland will be taking to the microphones. At least thats the schedule of events. Walter madison, attorney general in cleveland, back with me now here on the set. A cnn Law Enforcement analyst Cedric Alexander also here with me on set. In cleveland, civil rights attorney Avery Friedman a usual face here no avery. Im sorry. Okay joey jackson in new york with us. Will criminal defense attorney Richard Herman be with us . Hes no longer with us. Weve got three incredible minds with me now. Walter madison, joey jackson and Cedric Alexander. Lets talk about first this Justice Department now probe. Joey you first. We heard from athena. The Justice Department has already completed a twoyear investigation looking into the practices of Cleveland Police. And now they will be looking into the testimony, the real path of this verdict today. How unusual is that or is that expected given that they had already investigated Cleveland Police . You know fredricka, this will be the new normal just based on the climate throughout the country concerning Police Activities and citizens. And really to restore some sense of public trust so that the public knows that Law Enforcement is really looking at these matters with a fine tooth comb. Understand as you mention, the prior investigation from the Civil Rights Division was based upon the pattern and practices of the department itself. This will be specific as to brelos conduct and make no mistake about it what the standard is is very high. You would have to show in any civil rights prosecution, should that be the case after the investigation, fredricka, that there was an intentional deprivation of a civil right. Certainly we have the civil right not to be having used of force that are excessive imposed against you as a citizen. So theyll be identifying was this use of force appropriate. If it was not appropriate, was it predicated upon some act that was intentional, willful and malicious. That will be the standard and well have to wait and see how that investigation unfolds in the months and maybe even longer that lie ahead. Cedric what are the implications in your view that this probe, this second now probe involving Cleveland Police would happen at this juncture after a verdict . Well it is unfortunate for cleveland but they continue to seem to find themselves in this position. I think it goes back to what we heard earlier presented by the prosecutor there and which ive been saying for are a number of months we got to better train our Police Officers we got to do a better job in our selection process. We cant continue to close the barn door after the horse has already gotten out. We got to fix some of these issues. It doesnt sound like a cleveland problem then. You talked about the 21st Century Task Force. Thats nationwide. How is it why is it that so many Police Departments across the country need new Training Need updated training . How is it the case that so many would have so many questions surrounding whether theyre doing the right thing . Its disingenuous fredricka. If i may, i challenged our county prosecutor on his own words. Transparency less secrecy and reform. Well i wonder if there will be a release of the grand jury transcript. But in terms of reform the secrecy of this grand jury process has to change. We have a video it might be to the Justice Department but youre saying that it wouldnt be released to the general public. He can do that if he chooses. The judge can do that. We have a video in this tamir rice case. He died today six months ago. You are representing the family. Thats right. The Police Officer who fired the weapon has yet to be interviewed. No transparency with the interview whatsoever. Okay . Also in cleveland. And so you Start Talking about clanging perception. You have to love the people if youre ever going to serve the people. It just appears to be a lack of concern or empathy for what theyre going through right now. You have a video of a young boy being shot down by an officer, by the way, who should have never been hired because he was fired from another department for his inability to perform his duties. It just seems to be disingenuous and hes talking about more laws. That was the prosecutor who said that. He said more laws. Cedric you are in an unfortunate, and fortunate position actually hold your thought right there because the mayor is now about to carry out this News Conference there out of cleveland. Frank jackson. I do believe we have some clergy in the house. I appreciate them attending and everyone else also. Todays verdict in the trial of officer Michael Brelo is a verdict that will have long lasting effect not only here in our local community, but really in communities throughout this country. It is the first of several complex policing and Community Issue us that will test clevelanders as we move in the days the weeks and months ahead. This is a moment that will define us as a city and define us as a people as we move forward and address not only the issues surrounding this verdict but those things that will will be coming in the near future. It is my expectation that we will show the nation that peaceful demonstration and dialogue is the right direction as we move forward as one cleveland. We all understand and respect the fact that people have the right to protest and let their voice be laerd. However, wile we encourage and support peaceful protests i want to make sure that those who are here that have a different agenda understand that actions that cross the line whether by Police Officers or citizens cannot and will not be tolerated. Moving forward we will continue to address events of november 29 2012 which is the East Cleveland shooting and which officer brelo was on trial today. Now that the criminal court case has been concluded, the disciplinary process will resume for the remaining 14 officers that were involved either in the chase or the shooting. To date we have disciplined officers in a range from termination, demotion and suspension without pay. In addition there will be rulings on the tamir rice case and the anderson case in the future. At the same time the city is in continuing negotiation with the department of justice to reach a consent degree to ensure that there is greater accountability and transparency in the division of police. We have accomplished a great deal as a community. We know that there is much much more that we have to do. Again i want to emphasize that this is a defining moment for cleveland. As we look at this verdict, and we respond to that verdict, and we as a city move ahead in a way that will ensure that whatever injustices may be will no longer happen again. So i want to turn this over to chief Calvin Williams who will go through the process of what we will do post this verdict in terms of Police Action around disciplinary actions. Chief. Todays announcement of the verdict of Patrol Officer Michael Brelo marks a defining time for this city and this Police Department. It is important to note that we still have a lot of hard work to do regarding the events that took place on november 29 2012. I will explain the steps that we are going to take to move forward here. First i with antant to recap actions already taken by both the city and police. In 2013 the division of police convened a Critical Incident review committee to look over the incident on november 29th of 2012. This Critical Incident review committee is comprised of members of the homicide unit the use of Deadly Force Investigation team the integrity control section, the Field Operations section, as well as three civilians. One from the office of professional standards, one from the Community Relations board, and one community liaison, along with a member of the citys law department. The committee was tasked with reviewing the completed bcii investigation that was conducted in this incident. And also to conduct their own independent investigation. All records and electronic data were reviewed. Police supervisors and officers involved in the pursuit were questioned. The route of the pursuit was driven several times by the Committee Members to ensure and determine the accuracy of the officers statements. S upon completion of the committees investigation, the results and recommendations were forwarded to the chief of police. In the interest of transparency and openness to our community, the division of Police Conducted a press conference at which time a power point presentation was given that put all the evidence that the committee reviewed and the conclusions out there for everybody. This review in 2013 focused solely on the officers that were involved in the pursuit and not the officers involved in the use of deadly force. That investigation resulted in the following. 72 officers were suspended without pay with dates ranging from one day to 30 days. One supervisor was terminated and two supervisors were demoted. Three officers had administer perspective charges dismissed due to no finding by the committee of administerrative violations or procedures. The administrative process now surrounding officer brelo and the 12 other officers involved in the use of deadly force will continue with the Critical Incident review committee. Regarding officer brelo, officer brelo will remain on unpaid suspension from the division of Police Police. Upon completion of the Critical Incident committees review their findings will be forwarded to my office where i will review those findings and submit them to our case preparation officer to prepare administrative charges for violations observed by the committee. The case preparation officer will notify the officers involved in writing of those charges, and hearing dates will be set either with myself or the director ever Public Safety for those officers. I stated earlier, this is another step in a long process to move us forward through this incident on november 29 2012. The people of this city can be assured that we the administration and division of police will make sure that any and all violations of our policies and procedures are dealt with to the fullest extent possible. The citizens of this city have set a standard over the last six months in how they interact and force change and the reform of not only Cleveland Division of police but of the criminal Justice System. And i have been proud to be a clevelander during that time. Because our people have come out and demonstrated and voiced their concerns and their First Amendment rights in a peaceful proactive fashion. And weve listened to that. And i want to make sure that people understand that the way we get this thing done is together as a city in the fashion that weve done over the last six months. This is not over. There are still things that the division of police and the city are in the process of doing to make sure that our Community Knows that we are here to protect and to serve them. I want to make sure that people understand that we are out there for our community. And that our officers are part of this community. And day in and day out we go out there to protect and serve. And our community has that right to go out there and voice their concerns and weve done that. And we expect people to continue to do that. At this time calmer heads have to prevail. Cleveland has set a standard and i want to ensure that we continue to set that standard as we move forward. Thank you. Any questions . Yes, sir. [ [ inaudible question [ ] i think ive even said to ow personally on the record that it was my belief that at the end of the day, that as you know when we discipline officers arbitrators overturn those disciplines and that i felt that the charge that was presented to the judge was one that was difficult to prove. And so my expectation i think with a lot of people was that it would be a very difficult appeal battle to get a conviction. And that has borne out. Now my personal reaction to it is that it is difficult to accept just a Legal Definition or legal analysis of something and say that that should be the end of it. Because i dont believe people will accept that. People have a right to disagree with me as mayor, the chief as the chief, the judge as the judge, and the criminal Justice System as the criminal Justice System. And that we fully expect that they will express their dissatisfaction and we are asking them to do it in a way that theyve done it in the past and our expectation is that they will do that. And with all of this said and done having their feet on the pedal in terms of constantly reminding the administration the Police Department and the court in this country as a whole that there is expectation that they believe that we in terms of government and in terms of the criminal Justice System have not met and that this decision is one of those shortcomings in terms of expectation. That is what theyre saying to me the chief and theyre saying to the criminal Justice System. Theyre saying not just in cleveland, theyre saying it all over the country. [ sin [ inaudible question ] i am the mayor so i will maintain mayoral posture in regards to whether or not im disappointed or not. I think ive pretty well explained my sentiments. You can interpret that. [ inaudible question ] first off, we monitor activity on a daily basis. Yes, there are people from outside of our area that are in town. Just for the purpose of engaging and what we hope will be peaceful First Amendment activities. But we really arent too focused on the people that come in from out of town. Were focused on the people in this city that have to live here day in and day out and that know what needs to happen in this city and the people that live here are activists, are Community Partners. They know what needs to happen. And those are people that were listening to those are the people were talking to and engaging with. If theres somebody from out of town that doesnt have that as their focus for the city of cleveland, were not going to single them out, but were going to engage and talk to and make sure that people in the city that live here that have a stake here have a voice in what goes on from here on out. [ inaudible question ] were not going to get into tactics and deployment and things like that. I mean thats a hypothetical situation at this point. But were out there to maintain peace in this community. Were out there to protect everybody in this community, both physically and property wise and we will do that. [ inaudible question ] again, im not going to comment on what the verdict says. I mean people can make their own opinions on that. All i can say is that from the divisions standpoint we still have work to do and the people in this city will know where the division stands where i stand, once we complete that work with the rest of the officers. [ inaudible question sflchlt [ [ [ im not going to go back to that. The people that were at the press conference that we had the night after, they know my feelings. They know the things that i said that night. What was it . Well if a nutshell my statements that night were along the lines of were a better Police Department than to allow not just the end of this incident but to allow the incident to get that far in the first place, and thats what ive worked for since november 12 november 29 of 2012 to correct in this division. And as people will know we havent had a pursuit thats lasted that long. We havent had a pursuit thats resulted in anything close to that since because of the things that we put in place since that day. [ inaudible question ] well i think there are a lot of things different. Again, we dont conduct pursuits in that manner anymore and we havent since that day. And it is evident by i mean you guys can look at the stats. Its just not the policy of our Police Department anymore to allow anything like that to even take hold. Let alone to go on for that duration. That along with our Community Engagement. You see a lot of our Community Partners here today. But what im here to tell people is that im here for the long haul. I know the mayors here for the long haul. We want whats best for this community, this entire community. Not just whats best for the Police Department. Because whats best for the Cleveland Division of police is to police our city in a way that everybody is confident in us. Thats my goal from the beginning. [ inaudible question ] ive had conversation with the governor yes. That type of topic did come up but it just came up and went away. It wasnt like we spent time on it. I mean it is a logical kind of question that he asked me. The real thing is with the chief of police the Highway Patrol the different Police Departments in the area the county sheriff. So he has had extensive dialogue with them and they have had protocol established between them and also some training kind of things going on between the division and the police suburban police the Sheriffs Office the state Highway Patrol. Fortunately weve always had a good working relationship with them and have done things in the past in a joint partnership with them so it is not difficult to adjust to if there is a need for adjustment in an incident like this. [ inaudible question ] you think they would tell you that . No. No. No. The police are the police. And of course they gather intelligence. There are things that they dont tell me. So i imagine they wouldnt today be telling you Something Like that. But they stay on top of it is what im saying. They do stay on top of what they do and they do it in a professional way. Yes. [ inaudible question ] scott, it depends on the situation. Right now im allowing my command staff and supervisors to do their jobs what theyve been trained to do along with our other Law Enforcement partners. So now, no right now im not on the streets. But if it came to it if i thought it would help a situation, i definitely would be out there. I mean you know im a front line supervisor Police Officer for almost 30 years. Thats where ive been. And, again, if the situation dictates of course i will. But, scott, i dont want you to think that the chief is not hes the chief so hes in the command mode now. So hes operating out of the Emergency Operations center where all information comes in. All the intelligence that may be gathered all of the real time things sort of happening on the street. So he is in that command position now. And if something happened where it need be both he and i would respond to it at that time. But right now there are people who are responsible for those things but he is in charge operating out of the Emergency Operations center. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Youre listening to the mayor there, frank jackson. He said yes, in fact there was some acknowledgement. He even referred to his statements early on in the investigation well before a not guilty verdict rendered by the judge today that he said that he knew that it would be difficult these charges would be difficult to prove. Two counts of voluntary manslaughter for Cleveland Police officer Michael Brelo. You heard from the judge today who said that he acted accordingly. Were going to talk more about this now with my panel that has joined us. Hln legal analyst joey jackson, Walter Madison, and cnn Law Enforcement analyst Cedric Alexander all with me now. We heard a few pretty remarkable things coming from the mayor, as well as the police chief, Calvin Williams. From the mayor, just to reiterate his words earlier, he said it is difficult to accept the legal analysis and say that should be the end of it. He says there is more work to be done which in large part underscores why there will now be some administrative charges that the Cleveland Police chief spelled out. What does that tell you about the road ahead for these Police Officers . The police chief even riddled the fa kt thatct that 72 officers have been suspended without pay. Thats from one day to 30 days. There were term nargssinations doo he demotions. And more. There were over 100 shots fired and two people died. Thats hard to explain to anybody. In this particular case one individual could not be charged merely because what court is saying they just couldnt put it on him. There were clearly a series of shots, a number of individuals involved. What happened on that day quite frankly is horrific. Let me be very very clear about that. I think other piece here is if you look in light of what is going on in the country today, it is very hard for people to get their arms around citizens that is get their arms around how do we begin to trust the police. Talking about a sequence of events. You heard the judge earlier, he said people are thinking about what happened in North Charleston ferguson. But at the same time the judge was saying those incidents should not influence the outcome. That is still very difficult to do in the minds of people from their perspective and their experience. This is just not relegated to people feeling this way about it to the Africanamerican Community. Thats across this country. People are raising those questions but here again, going back to the 21st Century Task Force report, fredricka this was imposed, led by first the president of the United States. Thats right. Back in december president obama asked that this task force be formed. We come up with a number of recommendations which we did. If you pulled that document down offline, what you will find is a series of recommendations in there divided into six various pillars that will really give us a road map. Give cleveland and the rest of this country a road map as to how do we get started in terms of trying to create what were some things . One is Building Trust and legitimacy. First and foremost pillar number one. How do we begin to do that . You have to make yourself transparent to that community. Clearly historically in cleveland there has been a lack of transparency and trust that has been developed historically in that department between the community. The Justice Department just made that public in their discovery. Absolutely. The Justice Department is going to go back in here real soon miss gupta who heads justice, heads that division her and her team who are very very talented and have done incredible work. We saw the work that theyve done coming out of fergsz and other places across the country. They have been fair they have been what this country needs if it should arise to them to be able to look into this and provide further insight as to what needs to happen. We did hear from the police chief. We heard from the mayor. We even heard from the prosecutor. Everyone is in agreement, work needs to be done. But why does it seem that is Just Lip Service . It is just talk. Because you cant see it. It is not real. As we speak today, tamir rice six months ago died. He talks of transparency. They wont tell us where they are in the investigation. The officers who killed him have not been interviewed. Just to remind people tamir rice 12 years old. Holding a toy gun. A 911 call comes in. Even the person who called said i think it is a toy gun but when the Police Officers arrived, they treated him as such that it was a real gun and shot him dead. Then they begin to victim blame right away. He looks grown. Hes menacing. Look how big he is. How big was lebron james at 12 years old . The human talent that was lost because of their indifference. Its perception. Absolutely it does. How you interpret somebody. What you look at. How you divide a threat. Africanamericans are always viewed threatening more so than their counterparts. Heres the real point. Tamir rices case. Six months later nothing has been revealed to the public as to where they are in the investigation. Cleveland police say things have been done to help ensure better relations between the community but they look at that case and they say i dont see anything thats changed. Why should absolutely not. People in the Community Trust Police Officers . This goes to my point. I find it absolutely unbelievable that six months into this case in all fairness to that community, to the Police Department thats involved and to the tamir rice family that six months later nothing is being told to the community whatsoever. That cannot occur. That is a big problem. That is a huge problem. Here again it reflects no kind of way any transparently or trying to build relationships in the community. I want to go back to cleveland right now. Our ryan young is there. We have shown pictures since 11 00 this morning how people have been protesting peacefully walking in the streets especially after hearing the judge render his decision. Youve even had a chance to talk to some Family Members, ryan. You even tried to talk with the defense attorney. Then he had to go inside. Whats the latest . Whats happening . What are people saying and thinking about what the mayor had to say and what the police chief had to say . Zbll i think a lot of people are just sort of right now the protest moved on. They are frustrated. We had seen them walking this direction. But it is maybe 50 to 100 people. A small group. Here with pastor jimmy gates, weve been talking about all the efforts in the community to make sure this remained peaceful after that decision. Tell us about some of the work youve been doing in the community. Basically in the city of cleveland weve had training sessions passing our flyers promoting peace and justice here in our city. Theres no problem with peaceful demonstrations. We encourage demonstrations so people have an outlet or venue to vent their frustrations. Just be mindful of the destruction of property life and issues such as that. We want you to demonstrate because people need to have an opportunity to vent their frustrations based on whats going on. Weve had to talk about the stakeholders in. Community being involved in the protests. What were you worried about in terms of what people may do in terms of all the games and everything thats been associated for this weekend . Well this weekend we have the cavaliers returning back in town. Tomorrow is a playoff Game Tomorrow Night at 8 30. There sea also a baseball game here with the Cleveland Indians tonight. There is a number of high School Promise that are going on in our city. Students are graduating from high school. We want them to be able to enjoy their moment. Theyve worked hard for 12 years to achieve this going to the high school prom. We want our children to be safe in our city. Do you understand there is a frustration thats been built up. Youve been working on this for two years for this moment. Talk about the idea of what people want to hear moving forward. Even from the Police Department. It looks like collectively i think everybody wants change. Thats from the collective Bargaining Agreement for the city of cleveland and the Police Department. Social change. Social Justice Reform. Laws that can be changed. The city of cleveland really wants to make some changes overall based on what has happened here in our city. We know that things cannot continue as they are currently going on because were going to continue to encounter issues such as this. You want to see Community Policing here in cleveland. No doubt. Community policing works. We want our officers in the neighborhood that the neighborhood can equate to the officers. They know them. Theyre familiar with them. Theyre Walking Around with them theyre shaking hands with them theyre hugging kids theyre looking out for kids. More they become familiar with those officers the more Community Policing becomes effective. Do you think there is a healing process that can happen moving forward . No doubt cleveland is lurting. Because at one time we did have Community Policing. All of a sudden it went away but it has to change. We need Community Policing back so it can equal the public and Community Trusting the Police Department and the Police Department trusting the community. It is a collaborative efforts on both parts. You have other pastors here with you. What do you plan to do over the next 24 hours . We havent actually defined what were going to do. Right now theres churches across the city of cleveland, East West North and south that are open. Anyone that wants to go in and pray whatever the case may be theyre open. Mosques are open. Community centers throughout the city are open. There is a number of things that were doing in the city of cleveland to accommodate those that feel they need an outlet based on the from us tragss that are going on now. Thank you for joining us. Talking about the outreach efforts here. So many people have talked about what happens next. There is another rally planned for later on this afternoon. But fred i sat in the office of dr. Cedric alexander before and talked about Community Policing. It is interesting now that the community is talking about it in such a wide open array that they want officers who are involved in the community and they want to see something done. At you heard the mayor and the police chief talking about charges moving forward, they want to see some action. People are Still Holding their breath to make sure nothing happens here but so far it has remained peaceful with people walking the street blocking traffic, whether theyre getting a Police Escort so far and theyre not even engaging with officers as they do that. The whats next is the big question. Ill ask my panel when we come back. Cedric alexander still with me here Walter Madison and joey jackson. Well also be joined by the Cleveland Council member zach reid who we heard from earlier on the phone. Well find out whats next and what exactly is Community Policing. Because it seems like a very simple explanation. But still were at this juncture where a lot of folks are kind of perplexed about what does it really mean and why is it that most cities are not exercising it. Well be right back right after this. Why do we do it . Why do we spend every waking moment, thinking about people . Why are we so committed to keeping you connected . Why combine performance with a conscience . 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I mean i dont know my credit score. Dont you want to buy a house. Like, ever . You should probably check out credit karma, its free. Credit . Karma . Free . Credit karma. Really free credit scores. Welcome back. More on this breaking news. Today a judge in cleveland finds a Police Officer not guilty for his part in the shooting deaths of two unarmed people after a highspeed chase. But it is not over. Now not long after that ruling and two years after the shooting the Justice Department says it will review this case. Cnns Martin Savidge looks back at the controversy surrounding this deadly event. Reporter november 2012 when a couple in the car speeds away from an undercover cop, their engine backfires. It triggers a police radio report of shots fired and the chase is on. Investigators say the pursuit involves as many as 62 police cars and speeds of 100 miles per hour. Through the streets of cleveland. It ends in a hail of gunfire killing two unarmed people. An investigation reveals 137 shots fired by 13 Police Officers. But only one, Michael Brelo, is on trial charged with two counts of voluntary manslaughter. He is shooting repeatedly. He is shooting excessively and is he shooting to kill. Reporter prosecutors say the 32yearold former marine did what other cops didnt he reloaded. And when the car police were chasing finally came to a halt, brelo is said to have jumpeded on its head and fired 15 shots directly through the windshield. The prosecution believes those are the shots that killed 43yearold Timothy Russell and 30yearold Melissa Williams. Brelo told investigators he thought he an his partner were in danger believing the couple in the car were shooting saying ive never been so afraid in my life. I thought my partner and i would be slot and that we were going to be killed. Brelo went on at which point i drew my weapon and i shot through the windshield at the suspects. Recorded Police Radio Traffic that night gives conflicting accounts. At one point Warning Police about weapons. Use caution. Occupants are armed. Reporter while other officers on the radio report seeing no weapon. He does not have a gun in his hands. Reporter neither victim in the car had a gun. But Defense Attorneys say officer brelo had no way of knowing that at the time telling the court, he wasnt trying to be rambo. He was just trying to survive. That was cnns Martin Savidge reporting. Lets talk more about this. Im joined now by Cleveland City councilman zach reid. Mr. Reid earlier you said while many people are shocked, you also said that we cant let one decision define the city of cleveland. You heard the Cleveland Police chief underscore however, that this marks a defining time. So which is it and how does cleveland move forward . Well cleveland moves forward by first of all staying calm. Cleveland moves forward by being a model. I mean you got to take into account, weve got two more serious cases that are before the prosecutor. You got a 12yearold boy that was shot and killed by a Police Officer and you got a mentally ill young lady that was killed at the hands of Police Officers. Both of those cases have to go before the prosecutor. So if we blow up on this one case then what signal do we send to the rest of the nation as we look forward to these next two cases . So whats interesting is you have the Justice Department that did this investigation and said that it had to examine the practices of the Cleveland Police and found that in many cases it was excessive. Yet it didnt seem to be timely enough i suppose, to impact the outcome of this case because you heard the judge who said that it appears as though there was legal justification for the act. So how concerned are you about these other two cases . Has the climate of justice in any way changed . Will todays case todays verdict in any way impact those two cases that you talk about, the 12yearold and the mentally ill woman, both killed by the hands of police . Well, lets be clear. Only reason this guy got off is because he had the immunity of being a Police Officer. If you and i had done what this Police Officer did, hed be going to jail today. So we cant look at what the Justice Department was saying was the way that we police in the city of cleveland is not constitutional. They didnt say it was wrong. They didnt say it was not right. They said it was unconstitutional. What the judge said here today, because this person was a Police Officer, that gave him this immunity to be able to do what he did. At the end of the day the Justice Department is absolutely positively right. Do you worry that thats the message on any then policeinvolved shooting there in cleveland . What i want is for the Justice Department to stay here and i want the community to understand that the federal government is here and no longer will we have a Police Department that will have officers out there doing unconstitutional things because we will have a consent dedree ecree in place that will be monitored by the federal government that says that they get outside that box they will be dealt with on a federal level. No more on this local level. When you listen to the protesters who are taking to the streets there and they say no justice, no peace, when you hear from the congresswoman, marcia fudge, who says there was no benefit of the doubt given to ordinary citizens similar to the benefit of the doubt thats given to Police Officers how does todays decision in any way impact that Going Forward or do you see that it may not even make a difference . I think people walk around here saying no justice, no peace, no justice, no peace, and it becomes so much of a cry that people just look the other way. But listen to the words. You cant have Justice Without you cant have peace without justice. In so many of these cases where africanamericans, mostly africanamerican males, are being killed at the hands of Police Officers you cant have peace without justice. Thats the problem that were having not only here in cleveland but across the nation. But im glad to know that the federal government is in here right now. Because no longer because listen what they said in their decision on how bad our Police Department was. They said that they not only dont do Community Policing they said they dont even know how to do Community Policing. So when youre not even doing the basics of speaking to your constituents and the people that you raise your hands to protect and serve in a way thats dignified, thats constitutional if you arent doing that basic thing, then how do you expect to do the bigger things . And thats why i am so happy that the federal governments in here. Because you cannot have peace without justice and thats what the protesters continue to say. Not only here in cleveland but around this nation. Do you believe that that Cleveland Police officers dont know how to Community Police . Forget about what i believe. Its what the federal Justice Department said. In their report they said that the city of clevelands Police Officers not only they dont do Community Policing they dont even know how to do Community Policing. So if you arent doing the fundamental thing of respecting your citizens of talking to your citizens of reacting in a way that you treat them in a dignified way, if you arent doing that basic thing, then the other things fall to the wayside. Thats what that i didnt say that. Thats not what im saying. Thats what the federal government said. Well then as a city councilman though how much confidence do you have when you have the city police chief and the city mayor who say that there will be a pursuit of administrative charges against the other officers involved. Do you have confidence in that and what that means . All those things are good and the police got to do what they do and the mayors got to do what they do and the judge did what he did today. My whole goal is to fix this Police Department. Because the federal government came in and said that the way we are policing in the city of cleveland is unconstitutional. So all those things sound good. What the judge said today before he even rendered his verdict about how black people were treated in the country and all that. That sounds all well and good. The question is what the heck are we going to do about it . And all this we can discipline this Police Officers they got in the chase and they knew they shouldnt have got in the chase. They knew what the standards were and they knew what the regulations were for getting in to the chase. So at the end of the day we can do discipline. We can do all those things and all those things sound good. The question is how are we going to fix a Police Department that the federal government says is was doing Excessive Force and they were running unconstitutional here in the city. The question is what are we going to do to fix it. I got to ask you the question on your question. How do you do that . How does cleveland do that . You got to do what they did and i think the president was there just a week ago. What they did in camden floshgnew york. They brought on more police. They used technology and they did an aggressive Community Policing. And in camden, new jersey you saw their numbers go down. So they did the basics. They did the basics of talking to their citizens. They did the basis of treating their citizens in a dignified way. They did the basics of doing Community Policing. And when the city of cleveland goes back to just doing the basics treating fredricka, at the end of the day when you kill a 12yearold boy, i mean were talking about a 12yearold boy that lost his life and 180 days later the Sheriffs Department still has not given the file to the Prosecutors Office to decide whether or not that officer those officers should be brought up on charges. So for 180 days a 12yearold boy who has been shot and killed by the Police Department by a Police Officers that probably should not have even been on the police force, we still dont know whether or not those Police Officers will be charged in that case. So until you start to treat your citizens in a way that is respectful and constitutional we will continue to have the problems here in the city of cleveland. But im glad that as you and i are speaking right now, theres no rioting, theres no looting, theres no hurting or harming citizens or property. So the city of cleveland has to be a model for if we dont agree with a verdict, you cant go out and loot and riot and cause harm in the city. All right. Councilman zack reed on a mission. Thank you so much for your time. Well have much more from cleveland right after this. [ male announcer ] after John Huntsman was diagnosed with cancer, he founded huntsman cancer institute. To fight cancer in new and different ways like combining 300 years of family histories with Health Records to treat, predict and in many cases, prevent, cancer. With the vital understanding that cancer moves fast. And we have to move faster. To learn more or support the cause, go to huntsmancancer. Org. Welcome back to our breaking news coverage. Protesters are marching in the streets of cleveland right now after a Police Officer was found not guilty in the deaths of an unarmed man and woman. The two were shot after a police chase back inspect 2012. Youre looking at the officer right there as he received the verdict from the judge, not guilty on two counts of voluntary manslaughter. This after officers unloaded more than 130 shots into the vehicle of the two unarmed people that i mentioned. The officer was accused of firing the most shots at the end of the shooting standing on top of the hood of the victims vehicle and unloading his weapon and even reloading. So today after the verdict was read protesters started demonstrating outside of the courthouse peacefully. Here is the moment when some of those protesters came face to face with the Police Officers right outside the Justice Center. Hands up. Dont shoot. Hands up. Dont shoot. Was the most confrontational that it became. You saw the Police Officers then retreating into the Justice Center. Since then many of the protesters have simply spread across the city walking from street to street chanting holding signs. So far everything has remained peaceful. Im joined by hln legal analyst joey jackson in new york and attorney for tamir rices family out of cleveland. And cnn Law Enforcement analyst Cedric Alexander also here in atlanta. Gentlemen, we heard a very passionate Cleveland Councilman zack reed earlier who said at the root of the problem here with this case and several others including the tamir rice case which youre representing the family of the 12yearold who was with a toy gun and was shot because Police Officers thought he was wielding a real gun. You heard from mr. Reed say at the root of the problem is policing. He ticked off several examples to justify his case including the Justice Department twoyear review which said theres a problem. So i remain confused about what does that mean fixing a Police Department. You know how do you get to the root of fixing or reforming a Police Department . How do you have Police Officers looking at themselves and, you know discerning what needs to be fixed. Mr. Reed says theres no Community Policing taking place in cleveland. Theres no positive relationship between police and members of the community. From a person people standpoint the driver of the vehicle where mr. Lowman was occupied and shot tamir, he cost the city over 100,000 because he beat up an africanamerican woman. Officer lowman had been fired from a neighboring Police Department because he was unfit for duty. He didnt have the emotional stability. They hired him. The city hired him. So you asked a question. Theres a problem in hiring perhaps. Well, leadership. At the very beginning. Bottom line leadership. No reasonable person hires a man, gives him a gun and allows him to go out and use the gun, deadly force if necessary, and hes emotionally and mentally capable to do the job. You know anywhere else a citizen commits this offense, theyre arrested. Theres nowhere in the constitution that says mr. Lowman cannot be arrested. So joey if i could bring you into this equation. An interesting sequence of events happened here. You had a verdict rendered by the judge today. Michael brelo waived his right to a jury trial. We heard from the judge. He justified his decision almost an hour before he gave the decision of not guilty. Then we ended up hearing from the mayor of the city as well as the police chief who would then say that their administrative actions that have yet to take place. There will be officers that will be disciplined, many more will be. Can you help explain the sequence here. You have a judge rendering a decision and now you have the city who says were looking to take this even further. Its not just one officer, but a dozen officers who need to own up to the actions that led to the deaths of these two unarmed people. Fredricka, its a very important part of the process. You know when the process began today in terms of the judge issuing the decision the real concern is will there be justice and what does that mean. Justice means Different Things for different people. Obviously the family is sory disappointed. So you worry about the community. Thats why i think leadership is so important in times like these. So for the mayor to remind everyone and as we watch the press conference i think the takeaway was from the mayor and the police chief was accountability. Theres another component to the process. This person mr. Brelo, was not found guilty. However, let me remind you, ladies and gentlemen of the public according to the mayor and the police chief that 72 officers have been suspended and disciplined ranging from one day, ranging up to 30 days. Theres been a supervisor that was fired, another supervisor demoted. And so in terms of the process, its important to remind the public that something is being done here. We dont control, as the mayor, of course would remind the public and the police chief would do the judicial system the judge found and the judge made the determination based on the facts before him as he felt them to be. A different judge could have reached a different conclusion. But it was important for the mayor and it was important for the police chief to reminding the community that the accountability continues. I think weve also seen but does that end up sending a message from the city that they dont have confidence in the judges decision that there is a plan in place to carry out administrative punishment just in case the verdict is not satisfactory to people . It certainly could. Thats a way that you could evaluate it. Another way for you to evaluate it is to say, listen this is an independent component to this. No matter what the verdict would or would not be this is what were doing. Were evaluating this in this Critical Review Committee that the chief spoke about to see what was the conduct that led up to this police chase in the beginning. Why did it have to occur. And then in the aftermath what happened. I think through leadership you want to inform the community that were taking steps that this is not going to be a rogue Police Department. I might add to that fredricka, in your interview of the councilman saying its time now to be calm. Point out to the federal Justice Department and looking at what they determined which were real big problems in cleveland but resolving them in a peaceful way. Earlier ryan young speaking to the clergy member to remind the community that there are outlets to voice frustration and anger and thats not violence. So the process continues. But i think that the leadership being exerted at this point is exactly what we need. And big problems from that Justice Department report saying police using guns tasers fists and pepper spray excessively and unreasonably or in retaliation. Well talk much more about this and the next step for cleveland, the many next steps. Cedric alexander chomping at the bit here. I know you had some comments on what you heard from joey. Joey cedric and Walter Madison will be right back with me. Well take a short break and have much more in the newsroom right after this. 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Ask your doctor if chantix is right for you. Get the complete balanced nutrition of ensure. With nine grams of protein. And 26 vitamins and minerals. And now with. Twice as much vitamin d. Which up to 90 of people dont get enough of. The sunshine vitamin ensure. Take life in. Hello again, everyone. Thanks for joining me. Im Fredricka Whitfield. More on this breaking news out of cleveland where today a Police Officer was found not guilty of all charges in the deaths of an unarmed man and woman. The Justice Department now saying it will review this case. Protesters are outraged over the acquittal and have been marching in the streets. Officer Michael Brelo cried after the judge read the verdict this morning. There it is that moment. He was one of 13 officers who opened fire on a car of that a highspeed chase back in 2012. Both people inside that vehicle were killed. Listen to the judges verdict on charges of voluntary manslaughter today. I therefore find the defendant not guilty of counts 1 and 2 as indicted. The state did prove the lesser included offense of felonious assault on both counts by demonstrating beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant knowingly caused serious physical harm to both victims. But the defendant proved by a preponderance of the evidence that he is legally excused for liability for those crimes because he caused the serious physical harm to the victims in a constitutionally reasonable effort to end an objectively reasonable perception that he and the others present were threatened by them with imminent serious bodily harm. I, therefore, also find the defendant not guilty of felonious assault, a lesser included offense on both indicted counts. The defendant is discharged. All right. Ryan young is joining us now from cleveland. So ryan it looks very placid behind you. Earlier there were a lot of people who were outside the Justice Center and who have converged on the streets marching walking, and at the urging of a lot of city leaders, people were asked to remain calm as they expressed their concerns. What is happening there now . Well fred to be honest a lot of people are holding their breaths to see what happens next because they dont feel the word has spread throughout the community as of yet. We were here as the people were marching through the streets and were told theyre rallying somewhere else right now. Sort of a combination protest. I was sitting right behind the officer in the front row. As each announcement was made i could watch his hand under the table touch both his lawyers. He had that emotional outburst where he started crying. You could tell he started to relax after the verdict was read. The judge brought tout two mannequins and showed where the shots were fired and talked about it extensively. Its now where you see everyone thats an official try to publicly display and talk about the evidence that they have in this case. But the people who are outside, they dont want to hear about that. What they hear is 137 shots and they want to know whats going to happen next with these officers. Of course since then the mayor and the police chief have talked about maybe some changes happening, that the officers will still be suspended and still could be fired from their jobs. The judge did talk about officer brelo when he stood on top of the car and fired those shots from the window that was not a part of Police Policy but he was trying to do that to stop a threat. So a lot of people in this community have questioned. Weve been talking to Community Leaders and Family Members who say they want to see something happen and they believe justice should happen but they want to make sure the streets remain peaceful. Thats a conversation thats been going on throughout the afternoon. And the words here Community Policing. Thats something were hearing over and over again because people say they want a change from the Police Department in this community. And whats so perplexing to so many of those protesters when you talk about that perceived threat that the judge underscored, those two people were unarmed and so thats the underlying question from so many which was how was that threat displayed. Why did the officers feel that their lives were in jeopardy when these two people were unarmed in their vehicle. A lot of talk about that as well. Just in the last five minutes we had a young man walk by us with chains around his hand and say this is the new slavery. His silent protest. Weve seen groups deciding to jump on the front of this building and start screaming and yelling and marching. But the crowds here a lot smaller than what some expected. People now believe that the larger crowds could be headed here much later on. Once again, there is ear protest across town and people think that one could grow. A couple of the pastors are more worried about monday and whether people will have a chance to gather their thoughts get together and hit the streets once again. But its all been peaceful so far and they havent confronted the officers who are outside. Everyone is keeping a safe distance from each other. Ryan young, well check back with you. Lets talk more about what is next for cleveland. Im joined by joey jackson, attorney for tamir rices family Walter Madison, who is joining me here in atlanta and cnn legal analyst Cedric Alexander also here in atlanta right now. We heard from the councilman zack reed who said theres got to be better policing and he underscored the need and importance for Community Policing. So i wonder cedric explain to people what is Community Policing . Because apparently there seems to be some confusion over what constitutes Community Policing how it is beneficial what are the tools involved and why a city should be using it. Let me go back to one or two things that joey jackson mentioned a few moments ago that i thought was very profound in his statements. One is the fact that the chief is providing the type of leadership right now that needs to be done. I had an opportunity to meet chief williams a couple of months back. In fact right here in atlanta and ill meet him again in july. He is admitting that there is a problem, there is reform necessary. Absolutely. He is a new age chief. He inherited a lot of this thats going on. Hes looking forward to change. I think hes going to do everything that he can to do so. Hes open to feedback his willingness and his commitment being a longtime member of that Police Department to move that agency forward. I truly believe from him in my interactions with him hes very committed to do so. But lets talk about Community Policing for a second and we often hear that term but no one oftentimes has clearly articulated what it is so let me make it very very simple is this. It is a relationship that exists between community and police. They working in communities together hand in hand. Police depending on communities what do you mean . Well im going to get to that. Because it sounds like just verbiage but what do you envision . Its this and it takes place in communities across this country. Not in cleveland leerily lyclearly but it does take place. You and i, i as a sworn officer, you as a civilian we have an opportunity to meet. I come into the neighborhood i get out of my car. I know people in the neighborhood, they know me my name. You ask them whats their day like how are their children doing. We take part in things together we do things for young people. It is a relationship that is built on trust and built over time. Its not just driving through a neighborhood and saying this is Community Policing because were presenting and roll down the window occasionally. We know that many of our Police Departments across the country are running from call to call to call because theres a high volume of calls for service. So oftentimes it may not be as easy as Police Departments like for it to be. But at the end, that leadership and that department has to make that a priority because there are many number of things that we can do. I lived in Charleston South Carolina and the police chief at the time, Reuben Greenberg was known for Community Policing. Everyone saw the benefits of it and touted it. I had a girlfriend who became an alexandra Police Officer. He engaged in Community Policing which meant that she had to live in the projects that she was being made available to serve, so to live in the community. That was a long time ago. Why are there major cities that are saying we dont do it we dont embrace. Whats the obstacle . Is it costly . Is it that jurisdictions dont believe its beneficial . First of all, i have not heard of any Police Department in the country saying they dont believe in Community Policing. Why arent they doing it. Weve seen Police Departments not demonstrating and maybe clearly understanding what Community Policing is. Here again i refer back to the 21st Century Task Force report. It gives departments, it gives community an opportunity to understand how to begin to build those relationships. So not to get side tracked. The reason were talking about this is because you have the Cleveland Police officer and the mayor who said weve got to engage and do more especially as a result of the verdict that came out today, not guilty. We dont know if Community Policing would have made a difference in this situation. This was a police chase. Police officers according to the report thought they heard gunfire when it was back firing of this old chevy malibu vehicle. The next thing you know you have 60 squad cars descending on 130 shots fired at these unarmed people. So theres more theres a big problem here when you go from what you think you hear to suddenly someone looks like they are life threatening. They have no weapons that have been wielded or demonstrated and you have a Police Officer standing on top of a vehicle and helping to carry out these fatal shots. So what is really the problem here . Let me say it. Let me say it. Cedric youre absolutely right, in concept thats exactly what we need. But when you have a Police Officer that doesnt perceive another person to be worthy of humanity a Police Officer that doesnt value an africanamerican persons life there is no coincidence that all of these incidents occur to unarmed africanamericans. This type of policing doesnt occur in the suburbs. It doesnt occur where most of us who are doing well or on a different economic status socioeconomic status live. It just doesnt happen. So how can you have how can you serve any person who you dont view as a human being or that you cant even see yourself loving. If you cant love these people you cannot serve them in any capacity. Joey were bringing these things together. You have Community Policing youre talking about a relationship youre talking about perception building. If youre talking about changing the way some people react to some people. So then joey how do you bring these two worlds together . Because youve got the judge who says he sees how this officer was justified in responding the way he did and then youve got city leadership who are acknowledging theres a problem. Now you have these two worlds colliding, but bottom line is you have two people who are dead and then you have some other Police Officers who have been disciplined, whether they have been suspended without pay for a period of time and youve got one officer who walks. So what are people supposed to think, feel and believe and how do they process all of this stuff that just unfolded. Fabulous question and heres the answer. Walter raises very real and legitimate concerns about how life is valued and how its viewed and the discretion an officer has. Could they or should they take your life. Thats the entire point of Community Policing. That is if you know the community, you know the people in it they know you, hey, officer, so and so how are you . Whats going on . Whats everything . Thats just james walking up and down the block. He doesnt pose a risk to anyone. Now what you have is you have a mutual respect. You have the gap that is bridged. You have people that know the areas that theyre patrolling. And so as a result of that theres less fear. I think Cedric Alexander can speak to the issue of officers and their perceptions and how they react in certain communities. And if an officer is fearful, i think that raises a real concern as to whether they will take your life or let you live. We will conversation on that ikt upon. We have to take a short break right now. Remember where we were in that conversation well pick it up on the other side right after this. I love making sunday dinners. But when my back hurt, cooking all day. Forget about it. Tylenol was ok, but it was 6 pills a day. But aleve is just 2 pills all day. And now, im back aleve. Hey mom, you want to live by the lake, right . Yeah. Theres here. Did you just share a listing with me . Look at this one. Its got a great view of the lake. Its really nice mom. Your dad wouldve loved this place. Youre not just looking for a house. Youre looking for a place for your life to happen. Zillow devour food thats good for you, the same way, you devour food thats not good for you. Welcome back. The Ohio Governor has responded to the acquittal of a Cleveland Police officer. The governor just issuing this statement saying in part the court has spoken and we must respect its decision. Everyone must have the right for their response to be heard, including when they are angry and hurt and voicing that frustration in a peaceful way helps us all rise above those forces that would hold us back and tear us down. In ohio we are working hard to rekilled Strong Communities where every voice is heard and respected and were making progress but weve got a lot of work to do. That coming from the governor. Well as a result of the decision by a judge, there have been a lot of people right outside the Justice Center who gathered there expressing their disappointment in the decision. Many others have taken to the streets throughout cleveland and they have expressed themselves in this way. Some of the images are being brought to us by our affiliate, woio. Hrough the streets of cleveland there. Meantime lets talk more about what is happening across the city the kind of reaction how people are expressing themselves. On the phone with us a reporter at with the cleveland plain dealer. Also a reporter with the northeast ohio media group. And so etta give me an idea of what youre seeing. About where are you and what are you eyewitnessing . Reporter so were downtown back at the office now. I was in the Justice Center for the announcement of the verdict. As the verdict was being announced at 10 00 a. M. Protesters did gather at the front of the Justice Center to express their opinions on what was going on. At one point they tried to get into the Justice Center but because technically the building was closed, they werent allowed in by Sheriffs Officers. Theres a couple of protests across various parts of the city focusing on various aspects of whats going on here. A lot of the protesters were there outside the Justice Department. They came really close, face to face with some of the Police Officers in riot gear but then the Police Officers retreated, carefully going right back into the building. Perhaps the message initially was just that we are here but we want to allow you to continue with your peaceful protesting. There havent been any reports of any incidents, right . People are simply going through the streets and expressing their disappointment. Reporter yeah we havent seen any reports of violence throughout the city yet. Theres a protest that was happening outside the Justice Center that moved to other parts of downtown. There was a separate ongoing protest outside the house of the Cuyahoga County prosecutor who tried the case. That protest is headed to the site of the shooting. Another shooting Police Shooting the shooting of tamir rice. And the protesters went to the home of the prosecutor as you mentioned. What happened once they got there . Reporter so they at one point were at a park near the prosecutors house. They did a mock funeral for tamir rice. When they got to the prosecutors house, they left a casket outside the house. Its really sort of their symbolically telling the prosecutor they want to see an indictment in the tamir rice case. They want that process to go forward. The investigation in the tamir rice case is still in the Sheriffs Department so the Prosecutors Office hasnt even gotten that yet, that case. Have any of the protesters said anything about their response to what they heard from the mayor or the prosecutor or even the judge . Is anyone responding verbally to what they heard . Im not sure about specific responses to those individuals but to the judge and to his decision were hearing a lot of people saying that theyre disappointed in it. On twitter theres a lot of action too. Were seeing people say, you know the fact that other Police Officers shot in this incident there were a total of 13 officers who shot in this incident brelo was one of them. Theyre saying because brelo wasnt the only one that fired fatal shots he should not be found guilty of the Involuntary Manslaughter charges. Thats not good enough for some people in the city. And the city says there will be administrative charges that will be imposed on some of the other officers. 72 officers were suspended without pay ranging from one day to 30 days. Is that in any way appeasing some of the demonstrators . Reporter you know im not sure whats going to appease the demonstrators right now in this moment. Brelo might face some sort of internal charges, its unclear. Theres also going to be a trial for five of the supervisors involved in the chase for dereliction of duty. That hasnt been scheduled yet but its supposed to come up sometime this summer. But officials in the city are releasing justice was carried out via the Justice System and theyre asking members of the community to really respect that. All right, thank you so much for your time. Appreciate it. Well have much more of our continuing coverage of this breaking story right after this. Who thrives on the unexpected. Haha shall we dine . [ chuckle ] you wouldnt expect an Insurance Company to show you their rates and their competitors rates but thats precisely what we do. Going up nope, coming down. And if you switch to progressive today you could save an average of over 500 bucks. Stop it. So call me today at the number below. Or is it above . Dismount oh, and he sticks the landing i have great credit. How do you know . Duh. Try credit karma. Its free and you can see what your score is right now. I just got my free credit score credit karma. Really free. To create a more advanced vehicle, you use the most Innovative Technology available. 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Were really working with a variety of content providers, really understanding our audience and the types of things they want to engage in. The traditional way of thinking about music is you like country or r b. We found people are curating music around their mood. We have more than 200 billion playlists on spotify. We found as a result of that that sleep on spotify is a larger category than r b. One thing as a side project, the addition of spotify running. We found that one of the top things that people do with music is they run to it. We basically rebuilt an experience that was made just for runners. And what users will see is a new tab cauldroninglled running. It allows you to pick that genre, start running. Spotify will detect your beat and give you the pace that you want to run for as long as you want to run. Welcome back. Im Fredricka Whitfield. We continue to follow developments out of cleveland today where protesters are now taking to the streets following a not guilty verdict for Cleveland Police officer Michael Brelo. Well continue to keep an eye on those protests. Meantime new developments in the d. C. Mansion murder mystery. Police are looking for more suspects and looking into a witnesss questionable testimony. Daron wint is being held in jail outbond for last weeks killing of three members of a prominent washington family and their housekeeper. Heres what the police chief told cnns jake tapper. I think its pretty obvious that there was coordination to have money brought to the house and to get what he was looking for while he was holding the family hostage. Whether there was someone else that actually took part in the kidnapping and the murder is just its going to take time to get this evidence together. We just dont want to jump to conclusions or draw any conclusions too soon. The attack happened the evening of may 13th when the family was held hostage and then ended the next day when the house was set on fire. Cnns sara ganum is on the case with us. What more do we know about the witness and the testimony of this particular witness . Reporter its this key witness, fred that this Police Report focuses a good bit on. The person is not named, but the person is described as mr. Savapoulos driver and assistant at his job so he would run errands on a daily basis. He got a text asking him to bring a large amount of cash to the home while the family was being held hostage and dropped it off. The key thing that police note over and over again is he told several different versions of the story. For example, he said first that he got that text message on a wednesday im sorry, thursday and then changed it again to wednesday when Police Believe the hostage situation began. He also changed his story over where he dropped the money, whether it was in a locked car or in an unlocked car. He had two different versions of how he delivered the money, whether it was in a manila envelope or in a red bag, which police now believe it was delivered in a red bag based on a text message picture that he sent to someone else. And then there are other discrepancies, fred over whether or not he delivered four bundles of money to the home or two bundles of money and whether or not they had the bank tape still on them. So was that money tampered with before haengd beforehand. Now, police in this criminal complaint,