study, here's what he had to say. >> well, i knew that's why the american people are having such a hard time. that's why the idea of selecting as a campaign slogan forward is object sushd. >> mitt romney seems to be placing the blame on president obama. there's no doubt that that 40% drop is terrible. but what's lost in the comments is the fact the three years we're talking about are from 2007 to 2010. president obama didn't take office until 2009. so president obama and his supporters say you can't blame him, you have to look at the situation he inherited. you can agree with that or disagree. but in case you think i'm siding with president obama here, let me point out that president obama seems guilty of similar tactics. in a new campaign ad he zings governor romney for some bad ads in massachusetts. it could also be blamed on what he inherited when he took office. >> that is the key to all of this. if you ignored who the candidates were, here's the 2010 figure, $77,300 according to that study of the median family worth and by comparison what it was before in 2007, if you just look at those two numbers, this looks huge. it looks obviously like things were better here and here, but the key is you have to go beyond that and look at what's happening beyond it which is the question of this. what were we losing money on? the simple truth is we lost money on our jobs, we lost money on our savings because people weren't expecting that either, but the big loser is over here in the question of savings f home ownership, right there. that's where the big, big, precipitous fall came in terms of what people were owning and where they lost all of their family value. and look at this chart when that happened. if you look at u.s. home prices, the number one driving force in changing that change in value of net value, median home value, happened right in here. president obama didn't take office until about here, so you can see this gigantic climb in home values, huge fall off the cliff. he wasn't in office until here. so you're absolutely right to suggest that somehow it's his policies that lead the way to all of this is simply not true. the numbers say that's not the case. >> and mitt romney is certainly saying also that obama hasn't done enough to help get home prices back up, get people out of the water not fast enough. we mentioned tom in this intro that the obama campaign is now going after governor romney's massachusetts record using the same criteria they're crying foul against. >> absolutely. and you're right. republicans have a fair complaint to say that maybe the president should have stopped this sooner, he should have turned it around sooner. that's an absolutely valid complaint. but on the other side, the democrats are coming back at the republicans with the same tactics. they're saying romney the figure they love to driet over and over again, that he created fewer jobs when he was governor than any other governor in the country. they're right but what they're not bearing in mind, when he was in office from here to here, it's a one % gain. what they're not counting is the nature of the economy in the massachusetts. massachusetts was also hit by huge recession right before he took office, one that hammered technology companies and massachusetts has a lot of them. so the simple truth is both sides are using the same trick on each other. there may be more or less blame either way, but it's the same trick and it's equally unfair on both sides. anderson. >> joining me now to get into the raw tol particulars kevin madden and democratic strategies. would someone who heard the answer i gave this morning be able to tell that? >> well, i think that the governor is talking more about the divide right now between the president's posture on the economy, some of the rhetoric that he's using. and the real, the perceptions i think and the realities that americans are feeling every single day in this economy. the president has talked about that we're making progress and that the private sector is doing fine, but people are feeling very real anxieties about everything like tom said about housing prices and the amount of savings that they had as well as the rising costs that they're seeing whether it's at the gas pump or food prices or everything from health care costs to energy costs to education costs, all of those are rising right now. and that the president's policies right now. done enough to get us out of the economic doldrums that we've seen over the last four years and that's the reason we're having this election, we're putting a contest right now in our vision for the future and how to fix the economy against president obama's record and policies for the last three years. >> just for the record gas prices have been falling. >> they're still very high. >> the obama campaign is saying you should look at job creation under obama. shouldn't the obama account -- do the same thing. >> i think when we judge mitt romney's record in massachusetts, have you to look at what he did in massachusetts. the same sort of policies that he put in place in massachusetts are the same sort of policies talking about putting in place right now which is doubling down giving massive tax breaks to well think individuals by while raising fees. in our last 16 months we've had positive job growth in the private sector, for the last 16 months we've lost jobs of teachers and first responders and firemen. those are middle class jobs that count also. tactics aside, it's about the policies that mitt romney would implement if he were president, giving breaks to the wealthy. >> let me ask you about something that cornell referenced. the obama campaign has jumped on those comments that mitt romney made, saying that he wants to fire police, firefighters and teachers. romney is saying it was taken out of context. i want to play what he said. >> he said we need more firemen, more police men and more teachers, did he not get the message in wisconsin? the american people did. it's time for us to cut back on government and help the american people. >> isn't the implication there we don't need more firemen, police men and teachers and to cut government that's where you would fire. >> no the implication is we have different world views on how to spr economic growth. romney has made clear we need to put more faith back in the american people. >> when you say cut government and he's citing -- >> but he's citing teachers and firemen and police. >> we help spur the economic growth by putting federal taxpayer dollars into growing the size of government and hiring more government workers. the problem here in order to get the local tax base, the other thing to remember too, localities, local city governments and states, they're the ones that hire first responders. they're the ones that are primarily responsible for education funding. so what happens is we're not going to have a federal government write a check. what happens when that money is gone sm if you have a one-time hit, what happens when you don't have a local economic growth. if you don't have a growth in the local economic base, you can't sustain teach, firemen and police officers. so you have to grow the economic base. >> it sounded like romney is saying we don't need more teach, firemen or police men and we've got to cut government. is he saying to fire some? >> no. i think he's saying that when we're looking at growing the economy, the most important thing to do is grow the private sector. because when you have a very robust private sector, then you can sustain the jobs of firemen, teachers and police men. look, that's an important point that governor walker even made. >> is that what you think romney was saying. >> i think what you see is two different visions in all due respect to the other side on this. you see one vision where president obama is saying you know what? we've got to invest in those things that are going to empower the middle class. the idea that we're going to cut teachers and police officers and somehow that's going to lead to a more prosperous and stronger and safer future for americans, you have to scratch your head. what kind of thought process is it if i cut back on teachers i have less kids getting into college and cut back on first responders, somehow that's going to help our country grow and be successful. with all due respect, you have two very different visions. what about investing in those things that help the middle class grow and what about cutting the things that cut away the middle class in order to profit the wealthy. >> let us know what you think, send me a tweet. prosecutors calling two of their most powerful witnesses to the stand. the penn state coach who claims he actually caught sandusky in the courthouse. plus the latest on the deadly fire in colorado. 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customers didn't like it. so why do banks do it ? hello ? hello ?! if your bank doesn't let you talk to a real person 24/7, you need an ally. hello ? ally bank. no nonsense. just people sense. graphic emotional testimony today in the jerry sandusky trial coming from two of the prosecution's star witnesses. it started with the now 18-year-old accuser whose allegations first triggered this entire criminal investigation against the penn state assistant coach. in court documents, he's known as victim number one. he's described meeting sandusky when he was just 11 years old and detailed how their contact escalated from kissing to repeated sexual assault. jurors also hear from the mike mcqueary the former member of the coaching staff at penn state. says he witnessed san ducky in the middle of a sexual act in the locker room. prosecutors allege that former penn state vice president gary shultz who's facing perjury charges in the case withheld information during the investigation. our national correspondent jason carroll, who's covering the trial. also cnn contributor sarah gannon, who won a pulitzer prize for her coverage. also, former federal prosecutor jeffrey toobin. one of the most powerful witnesses was accuser number one. what did you hear today? >> based on courtroom reaction, anderson, it was extremely compelling. this is an 18-year-old young man. when he walked into the courtroom, he looked vulnerable. quite frankly, he looked scared. when he sat down and began to testify, he really became emotional when he described the abuse which he says began in 2005 at the hands of jerry sandusky. mostly occurring in the basement of sandusky's home. anderson, he said it always began the same way. started with a back rub. he went on to say, quote, after rubbing and cracking my back, putting his hands down my shorts and blowing on my stomach, he, he had -- then they paused for a moment, broke down and began crying. before he could finish, he looked directly at jerry sandusky who was sitting in the front of the courtroom. jerry sandusky looked at him. then he went on to say, he put his mouth on my privates. at that moment, i looked at the jurors who were sitting over to my left. juror number 9, she's an elderly woman in her 70s. if you recall, during jury selection, she was one of those who said, i feel as though it's my duty to protect children. she had her hand over her mouth during this testimony. so it clearly had a major impact on her. >> sarah, the sandusky defense attorney, joe amendola really pressed witness number one. inconsistencies in his grand jury testimony. how did he handle that? >> honestly, anderson, he broke down at one point. and looked directly at the prosecutor and asked him for help. he say, please make him stop asking me the same question. you know, it was interesting, because during cross examination, joe amendola was harping on the fact his story changed slightly. accuser number one said on the stand -- he was quite honest, i thought, with jurors. he said, look, i testified three times before a grand jury. i told my story to multiple police officers. every time, it was someone new. i didn't feel comfortable with someone new. i was embarrassed and i was holding back. i'm hear today telling the truth. amendola kept coming back at him with the same question. he just broke down at one point. you know, he's 18 years old. and he looked at the prosecutor. he got no help. he gathered himself. he answered the question one more time. then they moved on. >> how does that play to a jury? he's pressing a witness about apparent inconsistencies. is that a winning strategy? >> often it is. in this case, i doubt it. given the magnitude of these charges. given the number of accusers. given how embarrassing the information is. it would not be surprising if an 18-year-old kid told the story somewhat differently. look, amen dola is doing his job. i don't begrudge him that. think about how horrible this testimony is. what's mike mcqueary's incentive to lie here? he looks horrible. he's the one who didn't go to the police when he sees jerry is an san dusky r paing this kid. why would he lie about this? yes, it's possible someone would could have told inconsistent stories. but when you have so many witnesses, it just seems overwhelming. >> what did mcqueary say on the stand today? >> mike mcqueary has basically been saying a lot of what we've been hearing all along. basically, he said he went into that locker room during that alleged incident. heard rhythmic sort of slapping sounds. skin on skin count he says he allegedly saw jerry sandusky embracing a young boy. the young boy with his hands up against the wall. at one point that really seemed to grab the juror's attention. was when prosecutors put up a huge video screen and showed actual pictures of the show. and then put mannequins to position it exactly where sandusky was standing and where this young boy was standing. at a certain point, the defense tried to poke holes into mcqueary's theory. what sort of specifics were you telling others about this, university officials. but mcqueary seemed to stand by his story. saying all along i know what i saw. >> what about these allegations of new documents that were released today that alleged that officials at penn state withheld the evidence that was subpoenaed by the grand jury? >> it was actually part of the response that prosecutors filed because one of those officials, gary shultz, is trying to get his charges dropped. so prosecutors filed this response that said, look we just obtained these new documents that show more evidence in your case. they're using it to bolster their case. they're saying he kept some kind of file. we don't know the contents of the file. only it was some kind of file about allegations made against jerry sandusky. we know shultz, this defendant, is one of the only people that knew about several different allegations. because he was the director of the police department. and there had been a report to police in 1998. and then he was also involved in the report that mike mcqueary is involved in. >> i understand we just got a response from his attorney. >> that's right. i'm reading it to you right now. it's just come to me on my blackberry. this comes from tom ferrell. he represents shultz. he said, mr. shutz did not possess any secret files. all his files were left behind after he retired and were available to his secretaries and his successor. the only, quote, secret, information revealed was the privileged grand jury information inaccurately described by unidentified law enforcement sources to the media. that statement coming to us just a few moments ago from tom ferrell, gary shultz's attorney. anderson. >> how long do you think it's going on? >> a few more weeks. he said -- the judge has said he's going to do this quickly, in a couple weeks. i just find it hard to believe it's going -- you can get that much testimony in that quickly. >> do you think sandusky will take the stand? >> i think it is out of the question. i just don't see how he can possibly respond to all this testimony. >> jeffrey toobin, appreciate it. coming up next, stunning new report levels some serious allegations against the syrian government, saying they're specifically targeting children, torturing them, killing them, using them even as human shields. details ahead. corporate caterers showed how to better collaborate by using a mobile solution, in a whole new way. using real-time photo sharing abilities, they can create and maintain high standards, from kitchen to table. this technology allows us to collaborate with our drivers to make a better experience for our customers. 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[ female announcer ] neosporin® plus pain relief starts relieving pain faster and kills more types of infectious bacteria. neosporin® plus pain relief. for a two dollar coupon, visit neosporin.com. george zimmerman's wife is arrested. ♪ [ male announcer ] for our families... our neighbors... and our communities... america's beverage companies have created a wide range of new choices. developing smaller portion sizes and more low- & no-calorie beverages... adding clear calorie labels so you know exactly what you're choosing... and in schools, replacing full-calorie soft drinks with lower-calorie options. with more choices and fewer calories, america's beverage companies are delivering. for months, we've reported on allegations by the regime of bashar al assad in syria. a new report by the un documents shocking abuses of kids. really unprecedented attacks on children in this conflict. saying the pro regime forces have used children as young as 8 years old as human shields. eyewitnesses say children of suspected dissidents are being captured and tortured. i want to repeat that. adults who have simply spoken out against the regime have had their children arrested and tortured. beatings, blind foldings, stress positions, whippings with heavy electric cables. cigarette burns. at least one incident, an electrical shock to the genitals. this is on children that we're talking about. the u.n. peacekeeping chief now calling the conflict an all-out civil war. thugs are physically preventing monitors from observing a cease-fire. a cease-fire that doesn't exist, it's in name only. rugsia and china have blocked the security council from taking any significant action against al assad. clinton accused russia of sending damascus helicopters like this one. the video shows regime forces firing rockets over northern alepo province. >> we have confronted the russians about stopping their continued arms shipments to syria. they have from time to time said we shouldn't worry, everything they're shipping is unrelated to their actions internally. that's patently untrue. and we are concerned about the latest information we have, that there are attack helicopters on the way from russia to syria, which will escalate the conflict quite dramatically. >> human rights watch is begging the u.n. security council to tighten economic sanctions and impose an arms embargo on the syrian government. this war photographer spend more than two months under siege in homs. last week we showed you devastating footage from a makeshift hospital. robert king has made his way out of the country. he joins me from beirut. i'm so glad you're safe. and that you've been able to focus world attention on what's happening inside syria. the u.n. now has this new report. they say the assad regime is targeting children as young as 9 years old. they're the vitims of killings. became detention. children used as human shields. we've been documenting. we've seen this for last 15 months. the u.n. special representatives on children and conflict says she's never seen such targeting of children it you've seen it firsthand. you saw children, correct? >> yes. it was horrifying. saw more children than i've seen in 20 years of covering conflicts that have been wounded by this butcher, this regime. and their only crime is they're children of the revolution. >> have you ever seen that in other places? have you seen children directly targeted? at this level? >> no. in fact, it's horrifying. there's no real words to describe the type of war crimes that are taking place. it is just one small city, town. in syria. but may represent what's taking place all across the country. >> the u.n. peacekeeping chief says syria is now in full-scale civil war, do you agree? >> i think it's still an ethnic cleansing process. i don't think the army has enough weapons to conduct a civil war. to have a civil war, both sides have to be relatively armed. against light weapons, against heavy weapons. i don't think there's any room for reconciliation. i think that line has been crossed. so the next phase of this conflict would be an all-out civil war. whether it's starting now or a week from now or a month from now. i don't know when that will take place. but it's obvious the country's heading in that direction, if it's not already there. >> but this is ethnic cleansing to you? >> yes, you know, they're killing the revolutionaries. then they're going after their children to kill them. the reports of them raping the women. so you're wiping out two, three generations of people and to me that is -- describes ethnic cleansing. >> clinton said today the u.s. is concerned russia is shipping attack helicopters to syria. how would that change the dynamic on the ground? just yesterday we had reports of helicopters being used, which is clearly, if true, an escalation of the conflict. how would helicopters change the dynamic? >> yes, they are using. they're already using helicopters. i've heard from the people of alcaser yesterday that they were using airplanes. >> you saw a lot of death very up close. you're now out. sometimes when you leave a conflict zone, i know you haven't had much time to reflect. but, you know, you have at least a little distance. you probably have a little more sleep than you've had before. what do you think about now? i mean what is it like to no longer be there? what stays with you? >> just the stories. the people. there's a bit of survival guilt. a little bit of remorse. just the friends i made along the way. and -- i want to continue the relationships we've built over this time. but i also have to continue and report on what's going on in their country. >> would you want to go back to syria? >> yeah, of course. maybe not to the same town but, you know, i'm not done there. i'm not going to let our colleagues die in vain. i'm not going to be intimidated by this regime. and i'll continue to do my work. >> well, robert, i really appreciate you talking with us. again, you've taken so many risks to try to get these images out. i really just -- i thank you for that. >> okay, thank you, anderson, i really thank you. >> very brave reporter. coming up, a story we've been following for years that keeps getting, well, more intense. a school in massachusetts that uses electric shocks on its students. students with severe developmental behavioral problems. autistic students. report from human rights organization goes into graphic detail with what they say are horrifying claims recently, students from 31 countries took part in a science test. the top academic performers surprised some people. so did the country that came in 17th place. let's raise the bar and elevate our academic standards. let's do what's best for our students-by investing in our teachers. let's solve this. ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 let's talk about the cookie-cutter retirement advice ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 you get at some places. ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 they say you have to do this, have that, invest here ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 you know what? 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advil® for a headache. it nips it in the bud. and i can be that mommy that i want to be. ♪ [ male announcer ] take action. take advil®. another keeping them honest report. it's a story of a school called the judge rosenberg center in massachusetts. a school where students are given electrical shocks to try to control their behavior sfim sometimes they're strapped down with restraints and shocked. the school says it's the last refuge for some students no other facility will take. there are parents who stand by the school and say it has saved their children's lives. there's public outcry over what's going on at the school. the jrc for short. reached a new level when a video was released showing the so-called aversive therapy technique the school uses. the school fought to keep the video from getting out. i want to warn you, it's hard to watch. it shows a then 18-year-old student named andre mccollins being shocked 31 times over the course of seven hours. [ child screaming ] the video is from 2002. mccollins is no longer at the facility. his family recently settled a lawsuit against the jrc. now, as we said, nearly every time we dig into this story, we find new elements. we uncovered this report from a group called mental disability rights international. a human rights organization that advocates for people with disabilities. in 2010, the group issued an urgent appeal, saying the severe pain and suffering perpetrated against children and adults with disability at jrc violates the u.n. convention against torture. the report quotes former students and teachers from the school. their accounts suggest the treatment goes far beyond the electrical shocks you just saw. some of the treatment is called behavioral research lessons. one former student quoted in this report described them like this. they try and make you do a bad behavior and then they punish you. the first time i had a brl, two guys came in the room and grabbed me. i had no idea what was going on. they held a knife to my throat and i started to scream and i got shocked. i had brls three times a week for stuff i didn't even do. it went on for about six months or more. i was in a constant state of paranoia or fear. it was more stress than i could ever imagine. horror. the jrc denies that any student has ever been threatened with violence to elicit an unacceptable behavior. in a moment we're going to hear from the attorney for the school. the school compares the shocks to a bee sting. in this report, a former student says it's much worse. i got the shocks for swearing. saying no, leaving a supervised area without asking, and even for popping a pimple any noncompliant behavior. i had one electrode on each arm. it was the worst pain, like a third degree burn. they tell people it feels like a bee sting but they lie. also described in the report, systematically withholding food. as a form of punishment. being deprived of food all day. in the evening, in their behavior improve, getting some sort of mashed food sprinkled with liver power. here is a lawyer for the jrc. also dr. louis craus. roush university medical center in chicago. doctor, as a child psychiatrist, you say treatment like this is tantamount to using cattle prods on autistic children. aren't there some kids who simply can't be controlled any other way? that's what the school officials say. and have been rejected by other schools. >> you know, that's ridiculous. as though this is the only school in the country that takes care of very difficult children. their probably isn't a state in our nation that doesn't take care of kids like this. but they don't use these types of adversive treatments. there are many other treatments that have research bases to them. that can be used often in a multidisciplinary-type way. often bringing in consultants when necessary. but not using aversive therapy >> why is no other school in the country -- and we can't find anyone else in the world using it? >> the schools that say they don't use it, that treat the tough kids, the very difficult behavior disordered students that they can't treat without the adversives, they come to jrc. so jrc is treating the most difficult cases of behavior disorders in the nation. the toughest cases are at jrc. >> doctor, do you buy that? >> i don't. i've worked in several residential facilities. i worked at the illinois state maximum security youth center in joliet for years. i just don't buy it. developmental pediatricians that work in very tough facilities. with kids that do really disastrous things. in taking care of them. there are other techniques. simply because somebody has a no refusal policy doesn't mean they're necessarily taking care of the toughest kids. it means they want to get as many kids as they can. >> michael, the thing -- even the toughest prisoners in this country are not allowed to be, you know, strapped to electrodes and have shocks given to them to control their behavior. even the wildest animals are not systematically shocked. so why is it okay to do this to kids? some of whom who can't even communicate? >> well, it's just an absurd comparison. >> why is it an absurd comparison? you have prisoners who have violent, a threat to others -- >> anderson, let me answer your question. you wouldn't perform any treatment on a prisoner if they didn't need it. you wouldn't do dentistry. you wouldn't give them chemotherapy. you wouldn't amputate a limb. you don't give any treatment to a prisoner. you give treatment to someone who needs a treatment. the students at jrc, the clients at jrc, they've been trying. all these other programs, they were expelled from these programs. >> why is it humane to do this to a child when it's not humane to do this to a hardened criminal? >> why is it humane to just let them bash their heads till they have a stroke? why is it humane to give them so much antipsychotic medication that they are catatonic? >> it's not just severe behavior. sometimes it's done to prevent, like with the severe behavior, you know, noncompliant behavior. if a student gets out of seat, they can be shocked. >> it's false. all of this treatment is approved by the court. it's approved by the parents. it's approved by physicians. those are just false statements >> mccollins when he was shocked more than 30 times over the course of seven hours and strapped down in four-point restraints that was all priorly approved by the courts? >> yeah, he had attacked a staff person earlier that day. he was struggling with the staff. the staff were doing everything they could to help him. >> so you're saying he needed -- but you're saying he needed to be shocked more than 30 times over the course of seven hours? >> well, at the trial, the expert for the plaintiff, mrs. mccolin, testified thatted an averse i haves are needed for some people adversives were needed for andre mccollins. his opinion was on that day they should have stopped after five applications. this is something that happened ten years ago -- >> that doctor who is saying they should have stopped -- you just said this stuff is all court approved. and doctor approved. you just talked about somebody who said no, this kid did not need to be shocked 30 times over seven hours. >> no, this is the plaintiff's expert at the trial. you're missing the important point, anderson. avenue verse -- adversives, he testified, adversatives are needed for some tough cases. adversives were needed for andre mccollins. on that day with that severe behavioral outbursts, he would have stopped after five application. this is ten years ago. this is now how jrc would handle it ten years into the future, which is where we are now. is there a place in the treatment of these types of kids for shocks? i mean, can you image any situation where shocks would be valuable? >> i cannot imagine any situation where using this type of shock treatment or any type of aversive treatment would be a reasonable approach to help these kids. when you look over the report among some of the kids that are accepted into this program, you've got kids with posttraumatic stress disorder. the concept of shocking these kids. if you look at the practice parameter for the american academy for child and adolescent psychiatry the treatment of children in residential facilities. this just came out. they're very specific about not using adversive treatment. they're very specific on using multidisciplinary approaches. and this -- there's no construct of this occurring. you know, this is all based on antiquated theory. from skinner that basically has been debunked many years ago. human beings are much more complicated than simply behavior. >> michael this report from this organization you say what, that it's -- it's just false? >> well, they're -- no, it's a joke. i mean, that agency never told jrc they were doing an investigation. they never came to jrc. they never asked to come to jrc. they only talk to people on the internet, on record, being against aversives. it wasn't an investigation. the report isn't worth the paper it's written on. the fact of the matter is i've been representing the school for over 20 years, anderson. i see these people. they are on so much medication they can't even open their eyes. they can barely walk. they're drooling on themselves. they're coming from the institutions that say they can treat these behavior disorders without aversives. guess what, they can, they just sedate them. thee parents want something better for their kids. they see these kids getting less applications a week. the behavior's gone. they're in the classroom. they're learning. that is far more humane than what this doctor is talking about. >> doctor, do you agree this might work to control behavior? it seems like what you're saying this is just unethical, just inappropriate, whether or not it actually can control some behavior. >> there are a couple of issues here. number one, aversive treatment at best is painful. at worst is potentially a torturous process. it is not research based. it is not peer reviewed. this type of treatment was used prior to sensory integration modalities with occupational therapy. prior to different types of medication managements. prior to more intensive speech and language work. prior to positive behavioral treatment plans being implemented. some would take -- most of my work is with child advocacy. i certainly use psychotropic medications in my regimes. it's one small part of what we do. the reality is -- >> but it's what these kids -- >> excuse me, i would -- >> let him -- >> -- these kids with behavioral disorder, that's what they get. they get that small part of the doctor's practice he's talking about. they get the drugs. massive doses of drugs. saying you guys dope these kids up. >> i understand. he's cutting me off. he apparently didn't like what i was saying. the reality is the child psychiatrists really don't dope kids up. there are medications. clearly tranquilizers that can potentially be used. that is not what we do in the great majority of children. >> okay. >> when medications are used. the point is -- you know what -- >> small majority of students -- >> you're a joke, sir -- >> we get the small majority of students this doctor is talking about. the doctor's not familiar with the literature. in the last five year, there have been several peer reviewed articles -- >> michael, come on, if this thing worked, it would be used more across the nation. it would be used in some other country. no other place uses this. the guy who runs your school and came up with it had to resign. >> no, it's being used in other countries -- >> didn't the guy who created the school have to resign? >> he retired, okay -- >> under -- to avoid prosecution. >> well, you come to the school, anderson, you'll see these kids, you'll see how -- >> again, you're not answering -- >> yeah, but anderson -- >> destroyed videotapes -- >> are we here to talk about the treatment? is that the issue, anderson? >> you're talking about how this is peer reviewed and is so widely approved. if the guy who created this destroyed documents and had to resign to avoid prosecution, that's part of the story. >> i'm talking about the peer reviewed articles. that say shock is appropriate and necessary. the kids that you're forgetting about, anderson, you're not focusing on. >> i appreciate you being on and doctor as well. >> if i could establish, i'm not aware of any peer reviewed articles but so much again. >> the doctor needs to look more closely. >> send us all your peer reviewed articles. >> i'd be happy to do that. up next, the latest on the deadly wildfire in colorado. if there was a pill to help protect your eye health as you age... would you take it? 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[ male announcer ] ocuvite. help protect your eye health. colorado's massive fire now covered 68 square miles. about the washington, d.c. the fire's claimed its first victim. a 62-year-old woman whose body was found inside her burned home. officials hoped to send 30 field crews in tomorrow. it's so big, you can see the smoke from denver 60 miles away. evacuated pets are being housed at the county humane society. some people are refusing to evacuate. want to go to meteorologist chad myers for more. what is it going to look like tomorrow, chad? >> it's going to look bad. the western flank. this is roosevelt national park. the problem is, we talked about this a little bit yesterday, in that national park, 70% of the trees are dead because of a beetle infestation. so this isn't burning live trees. this is burning just dead timber that's just ready to burn. the good news is not many people live out that way because it is national park. this thing grew about 10,000 acres. 7,000 to 10,000 acres overnight. that's about ten square miles. and today was a good day. the winds weren't bad. winds were down. tomorrow, they pick up a little bit. even at this point in time,gust s only 16 miles per hour, anderson. you get higher elevation though. higher up towards estes park. we have gusts to 22. that's the danger category. that's when sparks can fly. we won't get those winds tomorrow. they will die off. thursday, we could see thunderstorms. that sounds like a good thing. except for the lightning part. but very little rain. saturday and sunday, the winds could be back to 40. they need to get a handle on this tomorrow. a lot more following. let's check in with isha. has turned himself in to tonight. he is accused of killing three people. >> george zimmerman's wife, shelly, is free on bail tonight, after being arrested on a perjury charge. prosecutors say she lied at her husband's bond hearing about their finances. due to those accusations, a judge ordered george zimmerman back to jail earlier this month. meanwhile the parents of trayvon martin are calling on a florida task force to change or repeal the state's stand your ground law. they delivered more than $340,000 petitions today. eric holder rejected a kul for his resignation. he aaccused of what he and other top justice officials knew about the gun running operation in mexico. and here's your chance to own a piece of american history. george washington's copy of the bill of rights and the constitution. it's expected they'll fetch up to $3 million. sweet! 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