a racial slur as he got out of the suv to follow trayvon martin. it is important, because the federal government is investigating this as a possible hate crime. and the audio in question could be a major piece of evidence. the fbi is certainly treating it that way. they're doing their open analysis of the -- own analysis of the tape. a warning about the language. if you want to send the kids out of the room, now would be a good time. okay? so about the phrase. some believe they hear zimmerman saying f'ing coons and others hear f'ing cold. listen. >> i don't want to say what it sounds like this time but a lot of people are saying it sounds like, but let's play it a few times so that the viewer can have a hear for themselves. >> f'ing coons. >> you can stop it. it does sound less like that racial slur last time i acknowledged the possibility it could have been that slur. from listening in this room, this is the state of the art room it doesn't sound like that slur anymore. >> but today yet another interpretation. this time, f'ing punks. here's the newest enhanced viewer done by tom owen of owen forensics. >> f'ing punks. >> all right. so what do you think it's not easy to know, well, once again tom owen he thinks he was saying punks and zimmerman's lawyers claim he told them that is exactly what he said. this would seem to be welcome news in the zimmerman camp, however, tom owen is also the expert who contradicts zimmerman's claim he was crying out for help that night, which was captured on the 911 call. it's a claim his father repeated night on fox news. >> george was there yelling for help for at least 40 seconds. it's clearly him on the tape. there's absolutely no doubt about who it is. a neighbor came, saw what was happening, saw george being beaten. heard george yelling for help. and the neighbor said he was calling 911. >> also when asked about his son that he ever that he knew of used a racial slur, he said none whatsoever. he described george zimmerman as someone who tutored african-american children. mr. zimmerman called it sad in his words that people are not telling the truth about the case for their own agenda, suggesting it's a racial agenda. more now on how big a role race did or didn't play is playing or should or shouldn't play in this tragedy. joining us, professor boys watkins of syracuse university. he's the founder of you're black world.com. and also, carol swain. thanks to both of you very much for coming in. boys watkins, first to you. we don't know for sure what happened the night that george zimmerman shot trayvon martin. we certainly don't know if it was racially motivated. but you think race is a huge part of this story. tell us why. >> because i think that it's quite reasonable to believe that what happened to trayvon that night would not have happened had he been white. all of the things that led to zimmerman finding him to be suspicious, to chasing him down, and eventually killing him related to the fact that he was a black man with a hoodie on in a neighborhood in which some people felt he didn't belong. so part of the reason that this case has sparked so much controversy around the world actually is because there are millions of people who can identify with that. millions of black men including myself and women as well who know what it's like to look suspicious even when you haven't done anything wrong. to somehow extract race from the case of trayvon martin, it would border on the delusional actually. >> carol swain, you say the whole discussion about george zimmerman shouldn't racialized shall we say. explain what you mean. >> i don't believe that the black leaders should be using race in the way that they have and encouraging young black men to wear hoodies. those hoodies feed into the stereotype and unfortunately in american when you look at the crime rate among young black men, wearing those hoodies, all of that raises the suspicion that causes them to be viewed, you know, as potentially criminal. and i am a mother and i raised two black males and we lived in predominantly white neighborhoods. so my children, you know, they were trailed, they were stopped by the police and they had to learn how to carry themselves and how to dress in such a way that they wouldn't raise suspicion. i think we should be teaching our young people how to present themselves in such a way that they don't necessarily feed into the negative stereotypes. >> professor watkins, some including yourself have called for an economic boycott of sanford, florida, if george zimmerman is not arrested. tell our viewers why you support this. >> i support the boycott as of right now. because when you look at what's going on in sanford and what has happened in sanford, it's not a stretch to think there could be serious corruption going on there. if you look throughout the history of george zimmerman you find this man who was a son of a judge has been allowed to walk free on many offenses that would have landed a guy like me in jail. so i think that there are some people shaking in their boots in the sanford government that realize they've been complacent in allowing this man to escape punishment for things he's done in the past. i think everyone should be investigated. i think his father should be investigated. i think that all of these individuals who may have obstructed justice now and in the past should be dealt with because the prosecution of george zimmerman is really just the beginning. and the last many point i'll make is that the hoodie is not on trial. trayvon martin is not on trial. >> the stereotypes are. the stereotypes are. >> but if i want to walk outside and wear a hoodie, nobody has a right to kill me because i wear a hoodie. that's like saying a woman who wears a short skirt deserves to be raped. that would be highly inappropriate thing to say. so trayvon wearing a hoodie is not the issue. >> that's over the top. that's over the top. that's part of the problem. >> i don't see why it's over the top. >> as long as black men have -- young black men have such a high crime rate and there are a lot of crimes that we could be talking about, it feeds into that stereotype. and the economic boycott, all that's going to do is hurt the community. it will hurt black people, it will hurt white people, hispanics. it will hurt the businesses. nothing good will come from that. >> you're saying dr. king was just a big trouble maker. when he organized the boycotts. he was making things worse. you're sighing when he organized boycotts -- we can't be doing that. >> you cannot begin blaming the victim. we can't do that. >> the crimes, look at the black-on-black crime rate. we know the crime rates. we have a problem in the black community. >> yes. >> and the only thing they have done is boosted the sales of hoodies and skittles. they need to teach them how to comport themselves in such a way they don't draw attention to the negative stereotypes. >> let's be clear. go ahead. well, let's be clear. many of us go around the country and talking to young black men how to conduct themselves and we can't -- >> good, good. >> so we can't presume that's not happening. but you must also -- >> that's not what some of these other people are doing. >> al sharpton is not the focus of the discussion. >> all you're doing is racializing every issue. and it doesn't benefit the black community. >> nobody racialized this issue, madam. >> it's been use in an opportunistic fashion. >> that is not true. >> and it has to do with trying to boost black turnout for the next election. i think it's part of the electoral politics. >> that is not true. >> i hope not. i hope it's not true. >> to identify trayvon as being suspicious. when zimmerman made that decision to chase down this black man he felt was suspicious, and shot him in cold blood, that racialized the issue. >> you're both talking and it's hard to understand what's going o. professor watkins, explain why an entire community, sanford, florida, families, business owners, white, black, hispanic, everyone, none of whom had anything to do with the death of trayvon martin, should be punished by a boycott because of the actions of george zimmerman. >> because the boycott is sending a message to say that whatever is happening in that government, that corruption that is oppressing so many people that's harming so many people needs to be dealt with. and, again, when you have a boycott, when you oppose economic sanctions there are going to be people who are affected who didn't have anything to do with what actually happened. but what has to happen is there has to be some sort of action to persuade the citizens of the city and that that government to shake itself down clean and sort of deal with some of these issues. a good, serious discussion from both of you. we can go on. but i think you both made your points and you made them both well. appreciate you very much. appreciate your coming on. so whatever role race may or may not play in the martin case, recent history at sanford and elsewhere gives many in the african-american community reason to suspect and, in some cases, fear the police. on his blog, tyler perry describes a tense traffic stop he had in atlanta. and the disappearance in florida of two men whose last known encounter was with a now fired but never prosecuted sheriff's deputy. details from randi kaye. >> marsia williams hasn't seen her son in eight years. do you have any hope that your son is still alive? >> i don't believe terrence is alive. at this point i have to find out what happened to him. >> what happened to terrence williams is anybody's guess. he was last seen outside this naples, florida cemetery on january 11, 2004, with this man, sheriff's deputy steve cocins. investigators say the story about meeting terrence williams here at the cemetery just doesn't add up. at one point, he said he pulled terrence williams' car over because it was having problems. when he called his friend in dispatch, he reported the car had been abandoned. he never let on he had had any contact with the driver, terrence williams. >> i got a homie cadillac on the side of the road here signal 11, snag 52 nobody around. >> maybe he's out there in the cemetery. he'll be coming back in his car. >> but if the driver was not around, how then was deputy calkins able to run a background check, using his name and birthday. >> last name? >> williams, common spelling. >> date of birth? >> 4-1-75. black male. >> yet just four days later, calkins claims to remember nothing of the car or the driver. listen to what he says when a sheriff's dispatchers calls him at home. >> you towed a car from vanderbilt and 111th monday, a cadillac. do you remember it? >> uh, no. >> do you remember? you said it was near the cemetery? >> cemetery? >> the people at the cemetery are telling her you put somebody in the back of your vehicle and arrested him and i don't show you arrested anybody. >> i never arrested nobody. >> isn't that amazing? he's a seasoned veteran and he couldn't remember four days later? >> so you don't buy that? >> no. it's not true. it's not true. >> eight days after terrence vanished, deputy calkins was ordered to write a report. and it's in this report that a different story emerges. the deputy says he drove the 27-year-old father of four to this nearby circle k where he says he thought terrence worked. and it's that version of events that concerned investigators. because just months earlier they heard the same story from deputy calkins about another missing man. 23-year-old felipe santos in october 2003 after he responded to the scene of a minor accident involving santos. he issued santos a citation and are put him in the back of his sheriff's car. santos's brother, who was also at the scene, asked we hide his face out of fear for his own safety. >> did deputy calkins tell you where he was taking your brother? >> translator: the officer never told us anything. later we went to the jail and my brother wasn't there. >> when calkins was questioned about santos, an undocumented worker, he told investigators, he dropped santos off at a circle k. sheriff's investigator kevin o'neill. >> and we have no independent corroboration of anybody telling us that they saw williams or santos at one of these circle ks. that's strictly carkins's testimony. and i think we can add up where we can put his testimony at this point. >> o'neill says neither of the missing men was ever seen on circle k's security cameras. and there's more. about a month after terrence williams disappeared, steve calkins gave a sworn statement during an interrogation. he told investigators he had called this circle k where he said he dropped terrence williams off. he told investigators he made that call from his work-issued nextel phone. but when investigators said they pulled his phone records and told him there was no record of a call to this circle k from his cell phone he brushed it off saying simply, quote, i don't know what to tell you. you've been doing this for a long time. you know when something doesn't smell right. do you think the deputy had anything to do with the disappearance and possible death of these two men? >> he's absolutely in the middle of the investigation. everything points right back to steve calkins. >> months after santos and williams went missing, calkins a 16 year veteran, was fired for lying in connection with the investigation of terrence williams. calkins hasn't been charged with a crime because no criminal evidence was ever found. in the case of terrence williams, investigators say the deputy's car was searched and described as immaculate. calkins' home was never searched because according to investigators they didn't have the evidence needed for a search warrant. we wanted to ask steve calkins some questions but couldn't get past this woman. >> hello? hi. sorry to bother you. i'm randi kaye from cnn. i'm looking for steve calkins. >> he's not on your property? >> bye. >> is he here? >> bye! >> in 2006, calkins did tell a local paper he didn't do anything wrong, blaming the coincidences of the missing men on very bad luck. he suggested maybe they ran away. >> if terrence was alive, terrence would have had somebody contact his mother. i know for sure that's one thing he would do in a heartbeat. call my mama. >> randi kaye, cnn, naples, florida. let us know what you think. we're on facebook and google plus or follow me on twitter. tonight, a question, is president obama trying to muscle the u.s. supreme court with his remarks on the health care case, or are conservatives just freaking out, including a federal judge who took action that our normally low key legal analyst calls and i'm quoting him now, a disgrace. jeffrey toobin is standing by along with jay s.e.c. ula. that's coming up. [ male announcer ] if you believe the mayan calendar, on december 21st polar shifts will reverse the earth's gravitational pull and hurtle us all into space. which would render retirement planning unnecessary. but say the sun rises on december 22nd, and you still need to retire. td ameritrade's investment consultants can help you build a plan that fits your life. we'll even throw in up to $600 when you open a new account or roll over an old 401(k). so who's in control now, mayans? >> announcer: this is the day. the day that we say to the world of identity thieves "enough." we're lifelock, and we believe you have the right to live free from the fear of identity theft. our pledge to you? as long as there are identity thieves, we'll be there. we're lifelock. and we offer the most comprehensive identity theft protection ever created. lifelock: relentlessly protecting your identity. call 1-800-lifelock or go to lifelock.com today. a very strange chapter in american history is unfolding right now. and jeffrey toobin is right at the center of it, along with the president of the united states. we'll explain why in just a moment is, shall we say, a little ticked off. >> what these judges have done is a disgrace. what president obama said was entirely appropriate. there is nothing wrong. there's nothing controversial. he said i signed a law that was passed by the democratically elected congress and i think it's constitutional. and they give the justice department a homework assignment, a three-page letter, single spaced, explaining what the president said. they don't have to explain what the president said. that was a perfectly appropriate comment by the president. and it just shows how some of these republican judges are just deranged by hatred of the president. >> here's what he's talking about. president obama's defense of the health care reform law now before the supreme court. >> i'm confident that the supreme court will not take what would be an unprecedented extraordinary step of overturning a law that was passed by a strong majority of a democratically elected congress. >> harvard law professor laurence tribe said president obama obviously misspoke and not gave people enough legal context to understand the point he was making. and the republicans pounced with mitch mcconnell saying and i'm quoting him now, the president crossed a dangerous line this week. and judge jerry smith, a reagan appointee on the fifth circuit court of appeals demanded and got from the justice department which is arguing a health care case before his panel. three pages, single spaced, showing president obama understands that judges do in fact, have the power to review and strike down laws. something a high school student should know since 1803. jeff toobin is joining us with jay sekulow from the center for law and justice. jeff, first to you. can federal judges be distressed by what the president said without being characterized as deranged by hatred? >> absolutely not. this is a phony controversy from day one. what obama said in its full context is completely appropriate and uncontroversial. of course the president knows that judges can declare laws unconstitutional. his own administration is asking the courts to declare the defense of marriage act unconstitutional. they declare laws unconstitutional every year. every first year law student, most college students know that. obama didn't suggest otherwise. he simply said other the -- under the precedence of the commerce clause which is relevant in the health care law, he thinks the supreme court should uphold this law. there's nothing wrong with that. >> jay, i know you disagree with jeff on this. if politics and ideology permeated the judiciaries to really damaging levels at least in some instances. >> well, look, the damage here was the president of the united states chastises in essence the supreme court of the united states on a case i heard the week before. it was my friend jeff toobin who said last week that the administration had a train wreck on one day and plane wreck the next day in oral arguments. and the president defending his position calls justices that would overturn an act of congress, a law signed by the president judicial activists. the rest of the quote said unelected judges. the fact of the matter is this. a, the fifth circuit, did they have the right to ask for that letter brief? sure. i've had cases where we have had an oral argument. during the question they will ask for additional briefing on a point. are a lot of judges upset about this? they don't like to be called what the president did. and the unprecedented aspect of this in my view, wolf, is the president not only talked about judicial philosophy but a case currently before the court that was argued, voted on last week, opinions being written and we don't know which way the case is going to go. i think it will be close, i suspect. and i think lawrence tribe was right. i understand you want to take it to a broader context, which is what the administration tried to do on tuesday and wednesday. but the fact of the matter is the president acted and made that statement as if it was shocking that a court might overturn a decision or a law signed by the president passed by congress. by the way, that was mistake number one. of course the court can do it. mistake number two, this is not legislation passed with wide support. i mean, who are we kidding here? this was closely divided in congress and closely divided the supreme court. >> it was along partisan lines, but the democrats in the house and the senate had a significant majority. >> jeff tribe, a constitutional law scholar, ally of the president, he said the president should generally refrain from commenting on pending case during the process of judicial deliberation. do you think the president regrets making those comments? >> well, i couldn't speak for barack obama. i don't know what he is thinking right now. i think the point is those of us who are watching, those of us who are trying to be fair here, recognize this is a huge case, a huge issue. this is the signature piece of legislation that he has signed as president of the united states. and you bet he thinks it's constitutional. and he has every right to say that. i think this idea that the constitution and judges of the -- are these delicate flowers that you can't criticize, you can't say anything. they are very powerful people. the constitution sets up a system where they are insulated from political pressure. what can barack obama do to the supreme court justices. he can withhold invitations to state dinners. >> why did he make the statement? >> because he's the president of the united states. this is a pressing national issue. >> do you know another president of the united states during a case that was argued and pending that made a statement about how the outcome of the case can be and talking about unelected judges. and calling someone that would strike the law as unconstitutional judicial activists? can you name a president? >> a lot of things. there are a lot of different pieces of your question. >> just the one. >> the recent president bush, used to talk about judicial activism all the time. >> sure. >> judges not legislating from the bench. >> not on a particular case, which was pending. >> so what? >> right. i think that's a big difference. i mean -- wolf, they are co equal branch of government here. >> exactly. coequal branches of government that are not insulated from criticism. >> guys, we're going to leave it right there. >> criticism on a case that is pending? please. >> hold your thoughts. plenty of time between now and june when the supreme court rules on this for us to continue this conversation. thanks for coming in. an 80-year-old wisconsin woman is getting kudos from experienced pilots. she had to take over when her husband collapsed at the control of the cessna. the plane was almost out of fuel. she doesn't have a pilot's license but nerves of steel. plenty. listen. >> i've go at to land pretty quick. my gas gauge shows nothing. >> okay. we'll get it the next time around. [ artis brown ] america is facing some tough challenges right now. two of the most important are energy security and economic growth. north america actually has one of the largest oil reserves in the world. a large part of that is oil sands. this resource has the ability to create hundreds of thousands of jobs. at our kearl project in canada, we'll be able to produce these oil sands with the same emissions as many other oils and that's a huge breakthrough. that's good for our country's energy security and our economy. [ male announcer ] get it now at red lobster's lobsterfest. 12 tempting choices like lobster lover's dream or maine lobster and shrimp. but only for a short time. now at red lobster. i'm laura mclennan and i sea food differently. the chevy cruze eco also offers 42 mpg on the highway. actually, it's cruze e-co, not ec-o. just like e-ither. or ei-ther. or e-conomical. [ chuckling ] or ec-onomical. pa-tato, po-tato, huh? actually, it's to-mato, ta-mato. oh, that's right. [ laughs ] [ car door shuts ] [ male announcer ] visit your local chevy dealer today. now very well qualified lessees can get a 2012 chevy cruze ls for around $159 per month. e.p.a. estimated 36 miles per gallon highway. not in this economy. we also have zero free time, and my dad moving in. so we went to fidelity. we looked at our family's goals and some ways to help us get there. they helped me fix my economy, the one in my house. now they're managing my investments for me. and with fidelity, getting back on track was easier than i thought. call or come in today to take control of your personal economy. get one-on-one help from america's retirement leader. [ traffic passing ] ] ♪ [ music box: lullaby ] [ man on tv, indistinct ] ♪ [ lullaby continues ] [ baby coos ] [ man announcing ] millions are still exposed to the dangers... of secondhand smoke... and some of them can't do anything about it. ♪ [ continues ] [ gasping ] helen collins is alive tonight and that is nothing short of amazing. this is one of those stories that makes you wonder what you would have done in the same situation. could you have pulled off what helen did. there are two things you should consider. helen doesn't have a pilot's license, though she has flown many years at her husband's side. she's also 80 years old. once again, here's randi kaye. >> good thing helen collins was paying attention all those years flying around in small planes with her husband. on monday, 2,000 feet above the ground, helen's husband, john collins, who was piloting the plane, had a heart attack and lost consciousness. with her husband slumped over the controls, this 80-year-old wisconsin grandmother did what most of us probably could not. she took control of the twin engine cessna. low on fuel and without a pilot's license, helen began to maneuver towards cherry land airport, 150 miles north of milwaukee. her heroic efforts were recorded. one thing she makes clear right away she needs to land fast. >> you better get me in there pretty soon. i don't know how long i'm going to have gas. >> if helen was nervous she hardly let it show. friends on the ground at the airport were alerted to the emergency and quickly made contact. >> hi, helen, this is cathy. >> hi, cathy. hell of a place to be. >> okay, helen, we are going to launch another aircraft. it will come up and it will fly right next to you and give you instructions. >> within seven minutes, the pilot was in the air in another plane. helen had herself a wingman. everything he did, she did. >> she was confident. she wanted to know if i was confident in her confidence. and i said, well, if you're confident, i'm confident. i think we can do this. >> despite the fact that helen hadn't had a flying lesson in years, he said she was familiar with some of the switches. but he thought she was coming in too fast and too high so he had her do some practice runs. but when her wing man asked to close the road, she questioned his confidence in her. >> it's going to be a little bit of a flight lesson. but you'll enjoy it. >> what do you mean by close the road? >> i'm talking to the people on the ground, helen. >> don't you have any faith in me? >> i do. i don't trust the drivers on the road. >> the final approach was tricky. an eyewitness caught it all on tape. >> turn left. turn left. left turn, left turn. helen, turn left. keep the nose up. that's it. that's it. >> not only was helen out of fuel, but her right engine was out. her wingman shouted urgent commands. >> nose down. nose down. turn right a little bit. turn right. okay, bring the nose down, nose down. come, on get down. get down. bring the power back. power back. reduce the power. reduce the power, over. reduce the power. nose down, over. helen, do you read me? >> i read you. >> about 45 minutes after this nightmare began, helen landed best she could. >> she did a great job, came down and landed a little less than three points. landed on the nose. >> her plane bounced hard off the runway and then skidded about 1,000 feet. >> power off, power off, power off. okay. you're down. great job, helen. great job. >> helen escaped with a few minor injuries. all those years of flying with her husband paid off. he was later pronounced dead at the hospital. but no doubt he would have been proud. >> guys, you saw helen collins had a wingman to help guide her down. he's joining us right now. truly amazing story. talk about when you first made radio contact with the woman. >> okay, well, we got to the airport, helen was talking on the airport frequency. and the airport manager was conversing with her and my wife and i we quickly made an analysis of the situation, along with the manager, that we had to maintain contact with helen at all times. and my wife is very good at flight instructing and human factors of calming people down and allowing them to be very receptive to instruction. i thought -- i thought after watching helen fly the cessna that we were going to need a different perspective and that from the ground. my wife opted to help manage the radio and conversing with helen while i procured an aircraft, which happened to be helen and john's second aircraft. a beach bonanza, and went airborne to see what was happening with the aircraft as far as performance goes. >> was there ever a moment when you scrambled to get into the other plane that you thought this was not going to necessarily have a happy ending? >> that's -- you have to think positive. and i've been -- it's been claimed that i might be overly positive, but i find one thing in aviation. if you're not thinking of a positive outcome and working very diligently at a positive outcome, that's when it becomes very difficult. so i just keep a positive attitude and worked toward a successful outcome and it worked -- it worked that way. in fact, when i was talking to helen, i could tell her in her voice that she was as determined as i was to get her on the ground safely. >> and her landing, and you have said this, it was more than just successful. explain. >> the landing, in fact, i was discussing it with one of my aviator friends when i was flying, and i had to fly out to los angeles, and we were on a red eye flight. i was sitting at the entryway to the north -- north side of the airport, east/west runways and i saw a delta md-11 came in and make a landing identical to hers. i told her, she's a hero in my book, she did exactly textbook for a very, very low-flying pilot or nonpilot i should say. it was outstanding how she kept the aircraft under control at all times and stayed with it. never gave up. that's the secret of successful outcome in aviation. >> it certainly is. robert, thank you very much and thank your wife as well. appreciate everything you did. >> oh, you're welcome. 80-year-old grandmother. what an amazing story. tonight, in our ground breaking special report on kids and race, we hear from parents. their teenagers told us how they felt about interracial dating and they didn't mince any words. just ahead, what parents had to say about statements like this. >> do you think your parents would be fine if you decided to start dating a black girl, brought her home? >> um, honestly, my parents probably wouldn't be too happy because if i was to marry that girl, you're connected to their family now and who knows what her family is really like. but it's not always easy. at regions, we have the tools and expertise to really help you find your balance. like the freedom to access and monitor your accounts anytime, anywhere with online and mobile banking. sfx: bike bell you're just about to treat your kids to ice cream when you get a regions mobile banking text alert that your checking account is on "empty" - bummer! then you realize you can transfer funds and cover it before you get mauled by a pack of 5-year olds. unbummer! sfx: bike bell we're talking once again tonight about the intersection of the trayvon martin killing and racial attitudes. tonight we continue our ground breaking "ac 360" special report. "kids on race: the hidden picture," with a look at interracial dating. teens spoke about it freely. instead of a racial divide it exposed a general racial divide. all of them said they would date someone of a different race. according to the expert to the study, it's not only common for parents to discourage interracial dating but the anxiety about it could seep into the messages they send to their kids about race when they're much younger. anderson and soledad o'brien sat down with the parents of teens who talked about international dating and the harsh realities of racism that this youngest generation continues to face. take a look. >> first of all, thank you very much for doing this. i want to play something jimmy said about a joke he had heard in school. i want to play that. >> it was like saying racist jokes. >> okay. >> and what were some of the jokes? >> how do you get a black person down from a tree? yeah. you cut the rope. i didn't find that one very funny. i didn't find any of them very funny. >> it was surprising those jokes were being told. does that surprise you? >> it really does. i remember that day. and he came home. he was really upset about it. and it was shocking. it really was. because, you know, i don't think racism, even though it's not a part of our home, i don't think it will probably ever go away. we wish that it would. i think somehow it will just be around. because some people cannot get past a person because of their color. >> i tell them, you know, son, stay away with from the those kind of friends. if that's how they are talking that racist stuff like that, stay away from them. because i don't want it in his head. me and my family, i grew up. my mom, alabama, where she's from, i cannot remember her ever speaking about us hating a different race. ever. so we don't promote it in our home with our kids ever. >> any of your kids have boyfriends and girlfriends? >> definitely. >> 13. that's so young. >> a lot of conversations about interracial dating. it was really interesting. i want to play a little clip first from jimmy. here's what he said. >> do people start dating in middle school? other people have couples? >> yes. >> do you have a girlfriend? >> no. >> if you were to have a girlfriend and she was a white girl and you brought her home, what would your mom or dad say? >> i don't know. it's just when i tell my parents i had dated a white girl and they said well -- they're not racist, but they said why not your own kind? so yeah. >> so they are not that excited about it. >> it's not like you need to choose a black girl just why a -- why do you like white girls? no reason. >> tell me about that conversation. >> i remember that conversation. i remember that conversation well. you know, like you said, we don't care. but when you see your kid always steering towards a different race you want to make sure that he doesn't have a problem with his own race. that's basically why we sit and drill them and talk to them about you have a problem with your own race. you know? because we never seen them with a black girlfriend. >> which brings us to luke. we asked him also about interracial dating. here's what he said. >> do you think your parents would be fine if you started to date a black girl, brought her home? >> my parents honestly wouldn't be too happy because if i was to marry a black girl, you're connected to their family now. and who knows what her family is really like. >> so they probably wouldn't be that excited about it? >> probably not. >> where do you think that comes from? >> we have an older daughter. she came home one day and informed me she started going out with an african-american young man or a black young man at the school. the young man we liked a lot. it wasn't that we didn't so much want them dating because of race per se, we didn't know if she really thought about some of the cultural differences there may be. so we talked about it in that respect. in fairness and to be honest, we do recognize that sometimes there are cultural differences. and we did talk about that. not that it's right or wrong, good or bad, but just different. and we played the scenario out with our daughter in that respect. and we have several friends who are married that are in interracial marriages and they have great marriages. they also shared challenges at times. we try to be as open and honest as we can in talking about those kind of issues. again, not to dissuade or to discourage but just to get it out there on the table and to make sure we have talked about those kind of things because they're real. so i think that's more of our conversation than with our 13-year-old, with the older children. >> but they listen. they always listen. >> they do. >> let's talk about chantay. chantay says she has a double standard. listen. >> if i were to date a white guy, a lot of people really wouldn't have a problem with that. but if my brother were to bring home a white girl, there's definitely going to be some controversy. >> from whom, your parents or you? >> from me. from me. >> isn't that contradictory? you can date a white boy but your brother, forget it if he dated a white girl? >> really it's more of a problem for people when a black man brings home a white woman. because it's been like that for years. oh, you know, you know, a black girl and black guy just broke up. he left you for a white girl? you know, that's just really what people say. >> so it would matter to you? >> i think it would, unless of course she were not to act so quote/unquote white. >> what does that mean? >> you know, flipping the hair. oh, my god. ha, ha, they're so ghetto. no. >> so she has to be the right kind of white girl? >> i guess so. >> wow. so much to go to on that. >> which way you want to go? >> where do you think that comes from? >> i think when she speaks about if her brother were to bring home a white girl, what it says, i think, to our kids, our black kids is are we not good enough for our black brothers. what's wrong with us? you know, why -- do you like the silky straight hair? i can press my hair. it gives them a sense of, you know, like they're not -- exactly. exactly. i think. >> did it surprise you to hear her say that? >> absolutely not. >> it was so funny. >> i just wasn't surprised. it doesn't say anything about, you know, how she feels about the other cultures or ethnicities. it just says more i think about what she thinks about herself. this would definitely spark a conversation for us. ignite -- to touch on some issue, because it never dawned on me to ask her specifically if she felt a certain way about her brother bringing home another race. i didn't think she cared. >> i think listening to luke's comments there that we will be more purposeful and intentional about talking about it. i feel like we tried to be over the years with our other children, but i think probably there may be some questions he would have for us. i would not want him to think we would be displeased if he came home and had a black or korean or filipino friend or girlfriend. i wouldn't want him to think we'd be upset or wouldn't welcome her less than anyone else. >> will this change the conversation at all? >> i think so in our household. we don't talk negativity about racism. they don't have a negative view because it's not coming from us. i see the joy in them. i figure if you're a racist or if you've got it in you, at some point you're going to be miserable. if he encounters something, we'll address it, we get past it. we'll tell them straight, okay, that's just that one person. it's not everybody of that color. >> yeah. well, thank you so much for taking part in this. we really appreciate it. >> thank you. i appreciate it as well. truly, eye opening. in other news tonight, we'll show you the face of a monster, the face of a real monster. new photos of convicted mass murderer charles manson. [ male announcer ] a car is either luxury or it isn't. if you want a luxury car with a standard power moonroof, your options are going to be limited. ♪ if you want standard leather-trimmed seats, you're going to have even fewer. ♪ and if you want standard keyless access, then your choice is obvious. the lexus es. it's complete luxury in a class full of compromises. see your lexus dealer. i'm a wife, i'm a mom... and chantix worked for me. it's a medication i could take and still smoke, while it built up in my system. [ male announcer ] along with support, chantix is proven to help people quit smoking. it reduces the urge to smoke. some people had changes in behavior, thinking or mood, hostility, agitation, depressed mood and suicidal thoughts or actions while taking or after stopping chantix. if you notice any of these, stop taking chantix and call your doctor right away. tell your doctor about any history of depression or other mental health problems, which could get worse while taking chantix. don't take chantix if you've had a serious allergic or skin reaction to it. if you develop these, stop taking chantix and see your doctor right away as some can be life-threatening. if you have a history of heart or blood vessel problems, tell your doctor if you have new or worse symptoms. get medical help right away if you have symptoms of a heart attack. use caution when driving or operating machinery. common side effects include nausea, trouble sleeping and unusual dreams. my inspiration for quitting were my sons. they were my little cheering squad. [ laughs ] [ male announcer ] ask your doctor if chantix is right for you. [ roger ] tell me you have good insurance. yup, i've got... [ kyle with voice of dennis ] ...allstate. really? i was afraid you'd have some cut-rate policy. [ kyle ] nope, i've got... [ kyle with voice of dennis ] ...the allstate value plan. it's their most affordable car insurance -- and you still get an allstate agent. i too have...[ roger with voice of dennis ]...allstate. [ roger ] same agent and everything. [ kyle ] it's like we're connected. no we're not. yeah, we are. no...we're not. ♪ the allstate value plan. dollar for dollar, nobody protects you like allstate. i'm susan hendricks with the 360 news and business bulletin. new developments in the new orleans saints bounty scandal. greg williams was caught urging the players to hurt the 49ers. he pointed out at frank gore as a target. listen. >> kill the head and the body. we've got to make sure that we kill frank gore's head. we want him running sideways. we want his head sideways. i want to show you this. the california department of corrections releaing the first photos of charles manson in three years. greg mortensen settled a lawsuit alleging he fabricated stories in "three cups of tea." he'll repay $1 million to the charity he cofounded. fans of "the hunger games" can own a big piece of the hit movie. the town in north carolina which served as the set for much of the film it's up for sale. it's up for sale for $1 million. stay put. we'llright back.