Transcripts For CNNW Anderson Cooper 360 20110714

a democratic source telling it differently, saying the president challenged mr. cantor for what the source called" talk out of both sides of his mouth". they'll be back at the table tomorrow. the stakes could not be higher. moody's today put america's credit rating on review hinting at a possible rating drop. ben bernanke says defaulting on the debt would be catastrophic. jessica yellin is at the white house with what her sources are telling her. what have you heard from these differing accounts? >> reporter: democratic sources say that bottom line is that the president was schooling the crowd in the room when eric cantor changed his position. all along eric cantor as you have said, the house majority leader, had endorsed doing a deal that did reduce the deficit and that had some of these various components we talked about. but when he supported the short-term deal which as you've pointed out the president has made clear he opposes, the president sort of told the entire group that this is exactly what americans think of as washington at its worst, washington catering to the base, catering to politics, putting their own political future ahead of doing important things and taking on the big issues. and that he called on the group to take on this challenge and then called the meeting to an end. no matter how you read that, it's clearly an increase in tensions on day three of these debt negotiations with no sign of real progress with the clock ticking. and i do have it confirmed that this president really did say with my presidency at stake i will not yield on this issue. >> you know, there have been some reports and i think the "wall street journal" did an editorial about this suggesting this has all been kind of part of president obama's plan, that he's been very kind of calculating in the way he's gone about these talks, intimating or letting the republicans talk about spending cuts and then only later on really being aggressive and pressing for revenue razors, for tax increases down the road. how does the white house respond to that? is there any truth to that from the white house perspective? >> reporter: if this were part of a plan he'd have a deal by now. no president wants this kind of debt threat hanging over their head. he cannot benefit from having any kind of default at this point in his presidency. so you could accuse the white house of playing tactics instead of having a strategy. you could accuse the president of going out and using this for his own political advantage to the extent he can. but laying this entire scenario out as some sort of grand plan is nothing that anyone would do, i'd argue, for their own political advantage. the problem is at this point what we see is instead of progress, each side sort of digging in and taking a step backward at the very point when they need to be making -- locking in deals and moving forward. >> and no sign of that. jessica yellin, appreciate the reporting tonight on a fast-moving story. joining us now is former mccain and palin advisor -- a novelist, the author of "18 acres". senior political analyst david gergen is with us as well, on the phone democratic straejt paul vegala. paul, what do you make of what happened in this meeting and signs of potential progress? >> what we thought was no drama obama sounds like a pretty dramatic meeting. i do think the only way you can get to a deal is if both sides want to deal. and the only way you get that is if the republicans believe that president would walk away if they don't meet him halfway or at least part of the way. it does seem to me untenable for one side to say, well, we'll even put social security on the table which apparently what the president has done and the other side says we won't put a nickel of revenue even from corporate loopholes on the table. it does seem like it's a pretty unfair negotiating strategy for the republicans, and it looks like maybe it's blown up in their face. >> david gergen, your take on this and especially on this day where moody's is talking about reviewing a potential downgrade of our credit rating. >> anderson, i think the fact that meeting broke up in the way it did is extremely unfortunate, not only for trying to solve the debt ceiling but trying to solve the underlying problem of the mounting debts, the debt crisis that we're approaching. and i don't want to aportion blame here. i don't agree with paul's analysis but i don't want to get into the blame sort of situation. what it does seem to me is this. that the president and the leaders all have to come out of their corners and arrive at some sort of deal in the immediate future that averts a default on the national debt. that's the single most important thing. and whatever that deal is. the president says he does not want a short-term deal. i know personally that he feels very intensely about that. but his own top economic advisor, larry summers, wrote today in his financial times, he's got to get any deal is better than no deal. we have to get past the default crisis and then we can deal. unfortunately we have to postpone this but then we can deal with the underlying issues of the mounting debts. >> nicole, you were in the bush white house where the debt ceiling was raised a number of times. now that you're in new york and you've got some distance on d.c. how do you see this? >> i'm glad i write fiction now. but look, i don't know that we've ever seen a negotiation go from such highs where just days ago they were talking about a historic deal that would have a generational benefit and impact to bullying each other and cramming peas down each other's throat, pushing back from tables and digging in. so i think this deteriorated much more dramatically and much more quickly than anything else. and i think when you get out of washington, i think it's a cumulative thing with the public. the public is so beyond disgust with the leaders in washington. and i think even republican voices like shawn hannity understand and are arguing in favor of making sure that country does not default on its debt. but i think what republicans feel like they've contributed if you will or what their part of the compromise was agreeing to let this country get deeper into debt. >> but from a republican perspective, nicole, where do you see the possibility for compromise? is compromise possible? i mean, if republicans are saying the line in the sand is absolutely no tax raising, how do you increase revenues? >> well, i think republicans are against raising taxes for some pretty good reasons. one, we're not an undertaxed country. two, raising taxes doesn't actually get at the cause of our deficits. our deficits are in part as large as they are because we haven't had any growth in years now. so i think republicans will make the case, and it will play out if not in washington, then in the presidential campaign in the next year. this debate about how to grow our way out of these deficits. but look, what's at issue at the moment is getting a deal done. and i think as unfortunately so often happens in washington, something small, something temporary and something that both sides are unhappy about is probably what will ensue. >> paul, is a compromise possible? >> well, it's essential. it's absolutely necessary. but you do have what i think the sense planners would call asymmetrical warfare. there's nothing more central to a democrat than protecting entitlements like social security and medicare. the president has apparently put them on the table the. there's no big trump card he has as a democrat to say i'm a democratic president. >> but the republicans have to come with some taxes. >> paul, republicans have been saying in this meeting to the president that he hasn't been specific about what spending cuts he's talking about. >> i'm not in the room but i think we know what social security is, we know what medicare is and we know what no is. the republicans' position is untenable. we have both a spending problem and a revenue problem. it's obvious. several tax revenues now are only 15% of gdp. federal spending is 25% of gdp. both of those lines need to come to meet. you can't do it with spending alone nor with taxes alone. it's actually a very obvious deal. it's just that one side won't give an inch. and that's the republicans. >> david? >> well, that's one way of looking at it. i must say, look, there's some very strong ideological differences on this. the republicans are committed to lean government. they do want a smaller government. they want it much less than 25%. they believe the democrats are addicted to bigger government, and they believe a lot of what's being offered in these talks are gimmicks or are illusory in terms of budget cuts. that's why they're saying let's put, mr. president, put your budget out on the front of the public. let us see what you're proposing. you've never really propose add serious budget. we have. we proposed o'brien budget. where's yours. but that's not the big point right now. the critical point is as moody's is warning, as ben bernanke warned today and congress, the critical point is this country must not go into default on august 2nd. and they need to reach some minimal agreement to avoid that. that should not be hard to do. now, what they can get beyond that is really important, but it's not as urgently necessary as making sure we get this done. then we can move to the more moderate term crisis or the moderate crisis, moderate term crisis which is the huge deficits. we do have to solve those, but not before august 2nd. we have to get a deal to avoid a catastrophe on august 2nd. >> so nicole, for republicans tomorrow, do they need to change strategy, given what happened today? or what do they do going into this meeting tomorrow? >> look, it was barack obama who stood in the rose garden just a few months ago and talked about -- when he signed into law the extension of the bush tax cuts, he seemed to understand that raising taxes is not the right thing to do at this time for our country. so i think republicans, the difference between putting social security reform on the table and tax increases on the table is that social security and our entitlement programs are on a road to disappear. they're not going to be there if we don't do something about them. taxes don't have to increase. most people believe that we pay plenty of taxes, that we are not an undertaxed country. so they're being treated with a moral e equivalent lens because there's an intense negotiation taking place and our legislators have guns to their head to meet this deadline. but i don't think when the dust settles that they'll be treated as comparable items. and i think that where the tea party, the establishment republicans and the independent voters of america are the most closely aligned is in their belief that the size and the costs of the federal government is way too much. >> nicole wallace, david gergen, paul begala,thank you very much. let us know what you think. we're on facebook. on twitter @ anderson cooper up next, a fascinating story, a man who claims to be a former islamic terrorist traveling the country advising law enforcement about terror. there's one catch. cnn's found no evidence he was ever actually a terrorist. and actually there's another catch as well. your tax dollars, our tax dollars, are going into his pocket. find out what happened. our drew griffin confronted him with questioning and later, very close call for cnn's ben wedeman and his crew in libya. about as close as you can get to being caught in the middle of a fire fight. take a look. >> wait. >> wait. wait! >> wait wait wait! >> wait until you see what happens next. this goes on. we'll talk with ben. he was all right and his crew was already all right the at end of it but incredibly tense moments that will get your heart to 1206789 we'll talk to ben and show you the rest of that video. first let's check in with isha sesay. >> reporter: new developments in the halle berry case. her alleged stalker had a court date today. we'll tell you how he pleaded and what the court had to say. that and more when 360 continues. members of the american postal worker's union handle more than 165 billion letters and packages a year. that's about 34 million pounds of mail every day. ever wonder what this costs you as a taxpayer? 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"say the tan's foot steps" and why i left jihad". we found him speaking at the south dakota conference on homeland security. he was addressing 300 police officers and first responders. his message was american moslems need to be profiled. all islamic organizations from doctors to engineers to students ought to be investigated and mosques in the u.s. should be considered terror centers, not houses of worship. he says terrorism and islam are inseparable. >> you want them to say that islam was hijacked, it was not hijacked. islam is islam is islam. >> well, full disclosure, at one time or another cnn and other networks have turned to shabat for his perspective on the war in terror, an apparent look from the inside. but keeping them honest tonight, we're discovering has his story doesn't seem to add up. cnn's drew griffin of cnn's special investigations unit. >> i think we are at war with islamic fundamentalism and islamism which stems from islam. no historian can deny that islamists basically invaded kristendom. >> walid shubat's mess eningage is the epitome of good versus evil. he has a pedigree that makes him an expert. islamic terrorist turned ultraconservative christian. a u.s. citizen because his mother is american, he is a darling on the terror circuit, the church and university circuits, and yes, he believes the war on terror is a holy war. he pore trace himself as a man converted and on a mission. once a jew-hating, bomb-throwing terrorist, now a devout christian convert warning the world islam is out to destroy you ♪ >> that's how you recite the koran. i know the koran inside out. english. if you meet the unbelievers, then submit off their next. what part of "submit off their next" do you americans don't understand? >> his message before a largely positive crowd of cops and emergency responders at this south dakota homeland security conference, trust no moslem, especially those who organize. >> know your enemy! know your enemy! all islamist organizations in america should be the number one enemy. all of them. islamist organizations. islamists in north america should be focused on. >> reporter: he is being paid $5,000 plus expenses to speak here with your tax dollars. he was also given a rapid city police guard during his time in the city. a nice day's work. and judging by his web site where he highlights more than three dozen speaking engagements, shubat gets a lot of work. being a terrorism expert has become a cottage industry since 9/11. the department of homeland security has spent nearly $40 million on counterterrorism training just since 2006. dhs doesn't keep records on how much he's spent just on speakers. but some of the so-called experts who go around the country teaching and in some case preaching about terrorism and the dangers of islam are not quite what they seem. people, it turns out, like walid shabut. >> what was the purpose of your talk this morning to these cops and emergency responders here in south dakota? >> well, being an ex-terrorist myself is to understand the mindset of the terrorist number one. >> reporter: an ex-terrorist. it's his claim to fame. a terrorist, a plo member, who bombed a branch of an israeli bank in bethlehem square, throwing a fire bomb on the bank's roof. the problem with the story, with a lot of shubat's stories, there's no evidence for them. and despite cnn's many requests, neither shubat's nor his business partner have provided us with any. >> bombings in bethlehem square, you specifically said you threw. >> the bank was in bethlehem square. >> you threw explosives on top of that bank. >> yes, i did. >> no record. >> reporter: cnn's jerusalem bureau went to great lengths trying to verify shubat's's story, finding the general location with a branch of bank l,mi once stood but not finding anyone who could remember a bombing. we contacted the bank headquarters in tel aviv, asking officials to search records. no records found. and israeli police found no record anyone ever threw a bomb at the branch of the bank. >> why would the bank not have a record? why would the israeli police not have a record? >> the israeli police not have a record? i don't know. i don't know where you checked, dates, all these things. >> reporter: there's another part of his story that doesn't check out. shubat's says he was arrested and spent two weeks in an israeli prison. >> there's no record of you being in prison. i think there would be at least an arrest record. they held you for two weeks. did the united states know you were in prison as a u.s. citizen? >> you go to the prison and exact the records. the records are there. >> would you be willing to do so? >> reporter: we did. and the israeli detention center could find no record of detaining anyone with the name walid shubat's. >> you obviously can see why people are critical of your claims. there's a whole lot of gaps in your story. >> there's no gaps. >> we don't have a bank bombing. >> and we don't have a terrorist. because it turns out walid shubat's even on his own admission was never charged. >> i was in prison four weeks. >> was there a charge? >> no. i was a u.s. citizen, remember? i was born by an american mother. the other conspirators in that ended up in jail. i ended up being released. >> reporter: there's another problem. his family. in the neighborhood where walid shoebat grew up, relatives say he was just a regular kid. and dyud shubat's says he is walid's fourth cousin goes even fumplt>> translator: there were only two banks in bethlehem district, lumi and -- walid never had any connection with those two banks. not a close or a distant connection. i tell you this is out of experience. i am one of the people who are considered a responsible man in bethlehem. i have never heard anything about walid being an mujahid or a terrorist. he claims this for his own personal reasons. >> you're saying he claimed this for his own personal reasons. what personal reasons? >> reporter: there's a big person reason here, it's called money. anderson, classic investigative reporting you follow the money. his background, how walid shoebat is now making that money is about as mysterious as his past. >> the walid shoebat foundation, is that a charity? >> it's part of the ffmu. >> what does ffmu do? >> basically we're in information and we do speaking and we do also helping christians that are being persecuted in countries like pakistan. and we -- >> on of your business? that's interesting. investigation continues tomorrow night. what are we going to see tomorrow? >> reporter: tomorrow how he makes a business out of his expertise. how these donation toss his cause end up with a so-called foundation owned by his business partner. and also the bigger question, anderson, why are our taxpayers going to pay this guy? he can say whatever he wants, but where are the people vetting these so-called terrorism experts that are suddenly making a lot of money in this country? >> that's interesting. drew, fascinating. we'll continue to follow up. we'll have that report part two tomorrow. coming up, you may not have been following the war in libya recently. but tonight you are going to get as close to the come bass as anyone can. our ben wedeman and his crew caught in the crossfire today. and the video of it is heart-stopping. >> guys? alec? as fast as we can. we can't tell who the -- >> going to show you the full video what happened. we'll talk to ben. he was able to get out, his crew's okay. how he and his crew got out alive. we'll talk to him about that also should the man accused of shooting congresswoman gabrielle giffords, should he be forced to take medicine for his states friend yeah that would make him competent to stand trial and face the death penalty? the court has ruled. we'll tell you what they decided today. to 55 million more americans, many in small towns and rural communities, giving them a new choice. we'll deliver better service, with thousands of new cell sites... for greater access to all the things you want, whenever you want them. it's the at&t network... and what's possible in here is almost impossible to say. but now i see the splash.,... ♪ i wanted love, i needed love ♪ ♪ most of all, most of all... ♪ [ male announcer ] you don't makeby pressing a button.cken it takes a cook. we're kfc and we've got a certified cook in every restaurant freshly making the colonel's original recipe, today and every day. 11 herbs and spices, hand-breaded, hands down the world's best chicken. today is a kfc day. so bring home a real meal -- 10 pieces of that famous chicken, 3 large sides and 6 biscuits. enough real food to feed a family of four or more, just 20 bucks. today tastes so good. in libya, eight opposition fighters that gadhafi regime were killed and dozens wounded in the western part of the country. rebel forces regained control of the village of qawalish in a five-hour battle. rebel leaders say da dau fee's forces have been bringing in weapons from africa using a highway from tripp tripoli. ben wedeman and his crew were ambushed by gadhafi loyalists and caught gunfire. take a look. >> you guys, wait! >> no, wait. wait! wait! wait! >> wait wait wait! >> okay. just calm down. >> get down! get down! >> okay. we're leaving this area because there's gunfire all around us. and we believe that gadhafi's forces are doing a roundabout movement so we are rushing out of this area. >> i've watched that, ben, i've watched that video now multiple times. every time my heart is still racing. everyone in your crew is okay, yes? >> reporter: yeah. everybody's fine. in fact, that was just the beginning of a very long day. and there were other instances where we had to hug the dirt as we came under bombardment from rockets and mortars because this battle went on for a long time. eight were killed, at least 30 were wounded. in the court of it. so everybody's fine. but it was a very long and difficult day, anderson. >> so for you and for the fighters, too, how do you know where the -- where the da dau fee forces are? it seems like you were saying they were kind of circling around to try to kind of entrap you or the fighters. >> reporter: well, one of the problems in this part of libya is there's no cell phone communications. few of the fighters have any walky talkies. so we got to the edge of this village. there were just two young guys, maybe 17, 18 years old, supposedly manning the checkpoint. and they didn't seem to know what was going on. so our drivers went to the top of a hill overlooking the town. and when they got there, they saw just about 150 meters away from them two cars full of gadhafi soldiers. so they came running down the hill. that's really when the gunfire began. so you really, it's very hard to know the situation on the ground. and you can just sort of turn a corner and find yourself face-to-face with the wrong people. and you may recall that when those four "new york times" journalists were kidnapped or captured by gadhafi forces, the first thing they did the gadhafi soldiers was kill the driver. so that explains why the driver was in such a hurry to get out of the area. because they know that journalists might be spared. the libyans were not. >> and how are the forces opposed to gadhafi, how are they doing? early on for weeks we talked about their level of training and the disorganization. i assume that's gotten better. how much better has it gotten? and how much progress and/or lack of progress has occurred? >> well, in this part of the country they do seem to have made progress. they've expanded the area. they control quite dramatically. so there are some areas you can drive for an hour and still be in rebel-held territory. but they may have reached the sort of the edge of the zone that they can effectively control. increasingly they're coming upon towns that are not rebel -- they're not at all in favor of the rebels. in fact, they're progadhafi. and so every one of those towns they run into, the battles can be quite bloody and the aftermath quite messy. you saw the human rights watch report indicating that in towns that were known to be loyal to gadhafi there were lots of instances of vandalism, of burning of houses, of in some cases mistreatment of prisoners. so that sort of atmosphere is going to make it very difficult for them to really make progress towards tripoli unless of course there's an uprising in tripoli itself. and of course we've heard from people in tripoli that that's not something -- that is something that could happen. but it's just a question of when, anderson. >> when and how. ben wedeman, appreciate it. remarkable day today. i'm glad you and your crew, mary and everybody are okay. the latest on some other stories that isha sesay is following for us tonight. she joins us now. >> reporter: afghan president hamid karzai wept at his brother's burial today in the family's ancentral village. he was assassinated in his kandahar home yesterday by a family security guard. the same-sex marriage law signed last month by new york governor andrew cuomo has caused the town clerk to resign. a republican from new york says she'll quit on july 21st, three days before the law takes effect, to avoid compromising her "moral conscience". a california man charged with stalking actress halle berry has pleaded not guilty. richard anthony franco was arrested after allegedly trespassing three times in three days on berry's hollywood hills estate. at his arraignment, franco was ordered to stay 500 yards away from the actress. and a 360 follow, it started as a bet. anderson, remember marine sergeant scott moore? he's currently serving in afghanistan and he made a video asking actress me la kunis out on a blind date. she agreed to be his date at this year's marine corps ball after some encouragement from her friend, costar justin timberlake. happy ending? according to "hollywood live" she'll be busy filming two movies in november and she can't go after all. she says she's meal in private with sergeant moore. >> well, that's good. >> no. i think you should join me in urging her to reconsider. >> i tell you. i met her once and she's really cool. she seems super nice. so i'm sure she would go if she could. but at least she's going to meet the guy. so that's cool. >> i'm being a fan of love here. >> oh, you think there's actually going to be love her now. >> i'm a woman. i'm fast forwarding it to love and happiness. >> wow. slow down there, isha. >> okay. i'll slow it down. whatever. >> all right. time now for the shot. one of our interns spotted this on youtube. an embarrassing moment caught on tape during a recent broadcast of bbc breakfast. charlie state is talking about 3d movies with cohost susanna reid and suffered i guess an epic memory failure. let's take a look. >> i saw a 3d film recently in which someone just took the glasses off quite early on and said it made no difference whatsoever. >> that was me when we went to see -- >> okay. >> i can't believe that. >> we went to see a film recently. >> yes. a screening at the green lantern in fact. >> halfway through i turned to you obviously it was you who was with me at the film. you didn't have your glasses. >> that was three days. have you seriously forgotten we went to the cinema together three days ago? green lantern. you've forgotten it. >> yeah. and he forgot it was green lantern again. >> and forgot he was with her. >> that is a classic. >> i'm just put it down to early mornings, breakfast television. >> yeah. or she seems to have kind of remembered all the details. it doesn't really surprise me the guy is like i was at the movie with someone. i can't remember who it was. >> she probably like me had fast forwarded. >> she thought this was a big night out. >> she did indeed. >> oh, well. >> yeah. >> great moment. a lot more ahead tonight. serious stuff coming up. crime and punishment, the ruling that some are calling infuriating is going to keep jared lee loughner, congresswoman gabrielle giffords's accused shooter from facing trial anytime soon. dr. drew pinsky and sunny hostin weigh in on whether he should be forced to take medicine to treat his schizophrenia which would allow him to be ruled competent to go to trial. plus oprah winfrey is getting a new role at her struggling network. details ahead on that. you haven't left yet. no. i'm boarding now... what's up? um...would you mind doing it again? last time. 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[ female announcer ] nourish plus. only from aveeno. in crime and punishment tonight, a controversial ruling that will ensure that congresswoman gabrielle giffords's alleged shooter will not face trial anytime soon. a federal appeals panel has ruled that jared lee loughner can until his next hering in late august, refuse anti-psychotic medication, the very drugs that right now are the only thing standing between him and a jury. in may, loughner who has schizophrenia was ruled incompetent to stand trial in the january shooting rampage that killed six people, wounded 13, congresswoman giffords among them suffered the most serious injuries. she was shot point blank in the head while meeting with constituents at a shopping mall. loughner is being held at a federal mental hospital. his lawyers argue that prosecutors wanted to medicate their client merely to make him able to stand trial rather than to keep him safe. their argument worked. but it also means a very sick man is not getting treatment that he obviously needs. i talked earlier with sunny hostin, legal contributor for "in session" on trutv and dr. drew pinsky, host of hln's "doctor drew". >> from a medical ethics standpoint are you comfortable with this ruling? >> well, i'm not -- i'm uncomfortable with most of this entire situation. i mean, the fact is the physicians that are involved in this case are in a double bind on almost every front. on one hand they have a gentleman who is dangerous, who has been a killer, who is acting out dangerously and they can't treat him. he is diagnosed with schizophrenia and they can't give him the routine medications you would give somebody to frankly make them feel and be better and also make it possible to keep them from endangering themselves or other people on the unit. they're not being able to do that because of another ethical issue which is, what rights do people have to render somebody improved and competent in order to have them stand trial? now, mind you, somebody who is psychotic when they committed their crimes making them better to stand trial for a possible death penalty case. it's really a problematic situation for the doctors. >> but sunny, it did seem that authorities were saying, well, look, he threw a chair and he acted out in his room, and therefore we need to medicate him. he was being a danger to himself and to others. there are those who say, well, look, plenty of patients do that and don't get forcibly medicated. they were trying to do an end run basically around the system. because if they could say he needed to be medicated for his own protection, they didn't have to go through an entire court hearing to get him medicated. they could just do it with an administrative hearing where the rules were a lot easier. >> that's right. and i think that's why this appellate court did the right thing. because the defense argument is kpeming. they're saying if you want to make him competent to stand trial, you need to meet the more robust requirements that supreme court has set out. and that is as you mentioned, have a full hearing and say what it is. this means you don't want to really protect him from himself or others. what you want to do is make him competent to stand trial. and i think that is really where we're going here. we're going to have another hearing apparently to determine the medical issues but also the legal issues. and really the legal issue here is, are you trying to make him competent to stand trial or are you really just trying to make him safe for himself and others? and i don't think that appellate court bought that argument. >> dr. drew, from what you know publicly about the public information that's out there that he threw a chair, does that seem to reach the level that he is dangerous enough that he needs to be forcibly medicated? >> let's think about this for a second. it's across a six-month window that he had these outburst. i understand that people are skeptical that there were a couple of outbursts across that period. this is a man who killed six people. witness today have killed six people with a diagnosis of schizophrenia who must be miserable. and these doctors cannot do their job. but the door interestingly has been left open to do things that were not allowed to do, we at least try not to do out in the community. they have left the door open to leather restraints and takedowns and emergency tranquilizers which are the worst practice of medicine. that's harm. that's really putting this guy in harm's way as opposed to giving him the routine medications that would make him better, alleging all the while that somehow that's going to endanger his life. nonsense. >> well, i want to disagree a bit with dr. drew. and that is because, listen, this is an issue that has been around for decades. can you forcibly medicate a pre-trial prisoner? a pre-trial detain yi. and i think it makes us feel bad, right? because in these united states you can't forcibly medicate any adult. it's sort of your fundamental right to refuse medication. people refuse medication all the time. they refuse medication for cancer. >> except when they're in a danger to themselves and other. except in that situation which is what we seem to have here. >> let's face it. isn't there a more or rather a less intrusive way of protecting him? he's been in isolation. he threw a chair against a wall. >> now now are practicing medicine. >> he spit on somebody. that doesn't mean he's a danger to himself under the law. [ overlapping speakers ] >> that does not stand up to scrutiny. >> it stands up to supreme court scrutiny. it absolutely does. >> the fact is, this is what's so difficult about practicing medicine. you put the doctors in binds on every front. the standard in the community is, you avoid restraints. you avoid emergency tranquilizers. >> but you can't forcibly medicate anyone. >> when they're a danger to themselveses in an emergent situation two doctors can do that. and when they feel so much better [ overlapping speakers ] >> is he really a danger to himself? >> sunny, this is not just some guy who was talking to himself on a subway and was arrested. this is a guy who was witnessed -- not convicteded in a court of law, presumed to be innocent, but there were witnesses who saw him shoot people. >> sure. >> trying to kill people. and in fact killing people. >> but the question is, is he a danger to others right now? he's in isolation. he's separated from everyone else. and when you look at that fact -- >> is that appropriate for him? is that good care for him? that's the kind of care you want to avoid. that's cruel care. as opposed to giving him the routine things that would make him better. >> but you can't force him to do it. [ overlapping speakers ] >> it's about force inly medicating someone. >> you're absolutely right of course. but that's the bind the physicians are. in by the same token then you're asking them to render this guy competent so he can stand trial when he was known to be psychotic when he committed the acts. i can understand the doctors not wanting to do that as well. >> it is a fascinating case. dr. drew, thank you very much. sunny hostin as well, thanks. >> it's a tough call. we're debating right now on twitter @ anderson cooper. should severely obese kids be taken away from their parents for their own good? a doctor and harvard researchers say yes. we'll explain that. and the ridiculist an foo fighter lands on the list. 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[ male announcer ] want to pump up your gas mileage? come to meineke for our free fuel-efficiency check and you'll say...my money. my choice. my meineke. coming up, a foo fighter's concert go egoer lands on our ridiculist. we'll explain why in a moment. first isha sesay joins us with a 360 news and business bulletin. >> reporter: three senators are calling for a federal investigation into whether rupert murdoch's media empire went too far here in the u.s. they want to know if any americans had their voice mail hacked by a news corps newspaper. the allegations are already under investigation in britain where the scandal began. the struggling oprah winfrey network is getting a new ceo, oprah winfrey. she'll take the top post this fall. and she's combining the new los angeles-based channel with her chicago-based production company, harpo studios. winfrey says she wants to "unleash the full potential of the network". parents in some cases should lose custody of their severely obese children. that's a suggestion from a doctor and researcher at harvard university. they say the move may be justifiable because of the health risks to the child and the parents's chronic failure to address them. that controversial idea is in the journal of the american medical association. and hare potter and the deathly hall lows part two has already racked in $25 million in the u.s., and it hasn't even opened yet. it's all from presales. the movie opens friday. so cooper. >> yeah. >> have you been holding out on me? >> why? >> i just want to make sure that you haven't been passing yourself off as a wizard. let's put up a short. we'll explain. do you see the -- >> oh, right. that's creepy. >> i want to make sure you haven't been pacing yourself off at draco malfoy. >> yeah, no. that's very creepy. enough. >> it is very creepy. >> it's like the ghost of christmas future and past. >> all rolled up into one big mes mess. >> but no, i'm very excited to see the movie. are you? >> i am very, very excited to see the movie. i just wanted to make sure to see where you've been because you have been mia recently. >> that is true. i was shooting a story in cuba. >> not casting spells? >> no, no. yeah. i want to see the movie in 3d, though. >> i do, too, actually. >> i'm the biggest geek around. >> time now for the ridiculist. tonight we're adding a guy who i like to call the foo fighter fool fighter. we don't actually know his name. all we know about the guy is he went to a few fighters concert in london last night, apparently got into some kind of dust up in the audience during the show. dave groll this he's an a hole. his agitation amp goes to 11. take a look. >> hey, [ expletive ]. stop stop stop. no, no, no, no. you don't [ expletive ] try to [ expletive ] my show, you [ expletive ]. who's fighting right now? who's fighting? let me see. that guy in the striped shirt right there. high, [ expletive ], look at you. look at me. hey in the striped shirt. look at me right here, [ expletive ]. look at me. keep the camera on my show right now. keep the [ expletive ] camera on my show. get the [ expletive ] out of my show right now. >> you might almost feel sorry for the guy in the striped shirt if i hadn't spent a lot of time in london where on any weekend night you are bound to see two guys punching each other outside pubs after they have urinated on the street and or themselves and or their urine. i know. it's disgusting. so i got to go with dave groll on this one. it's a good opportunity for us to review some basic concert-going etiquette. a few rules, don't fight, don't push, don't stand on your seats so the little kid behind you can't see. don't get drunk and sing off key at the top of your lungs. unless you're courtney cox in a bruce springsteen video, do not try to get on stage and dance. also can we stop yelling free bird, please? it's just not funny anymore. even if you think you're being ironic, the irony is you're not. whatever you do, this is very important. come here a little closer. come here a little closer if you can. listen carefully. do not talk on your cell phone in the front row at a tori amos concert. believe me. don't let the whole willowy piano-playing fool you, she well pull out the f bomb faster than you can say -- >> get the [ expletive ] out of my show. it's a privilege to sit in the front row. get the [ expletive ] out. >> thrown out of a tori amos concert. that, my friends, is a walk of shame. another word of advice if you're at a faith hill concert and her husband tim mcgraw is playing, too, don't touch tim's mcgroin. >> you don't go grabbing somebody else's -- somebody else's balls. you listening to me? very disrespectful. >> first of all i love faith him. ill also love how the band is still playing and she's still kind of dancing as she gives a serious southern smackdown to the package handler. let's sum up. no talking in the front row, no crotch grabbing and please no foo fighter. >> you don't come to my show and fight. you come to my show and [ expletive ] dance. >> that's right, you a hole. dance. dance like you never danced before. and try to avoid an encore on the ridiculist. we'll be right back. a vacation on a budget with expedia. make it work. booking a flight by itself is an uh-oh. see if we can "stitch" together a better deal. that's a hint, antoine. ooh! see what anandra did? booking your flight and hotel at the same time gets you prices hotels and airlines won't let expedia show separately. book it. major wow factor! where you book matters. expedia. we inspect your air filter, cabin filter. there's bugs, leaves, lint, crud. you'll be breathing that. i do believe it's part of a locust. make sure your alignments good. your brakes are good. you've got all sorts different things that you check off. your fluid levels. pretty much everything you could need. it gets done. it gets done quickly. and it gets done correctly. the works fuel saver package, just $29.95 or less after rebate. only at your ford dealer. you're a doctor. you're a car doctor. maybe a car doctor. we begin tonight with breaking news. high tension at the white house. house majority leader eric cantor saying that when he proposed a short-term deal, something the president opposes, mr. obama got agitated and said he'd sat there long enough. a number of sources say he then asked, would ronald reagan be sitting here? i've reached my limit. this may bring down my presidency but i will not yield on this. congressman cantor says mr. obama told him "erik, don't call my bluff. i'm going to the american people with this". finally cantor says the president pushed back from the table and left. now, a democratic source telling it very differently, saying the president challenged mr. cantor for what the source called "talking out of both sides of his mouth". they'll be back the at table tomorrow. the stakes could not be higher. moody's today put america's credit rating on review. . jessica yellin is at the white house tonight with what her sources are telling her. jessica, what have you heard from these differing accounts? >> reporter: anderson, democratic sources say that bottom line is that the president was schooling the crowd in the room when eric cantor changed his position. all along eric cantor as you have said, the house majority leader, had endorsed doing a deal that did reduce the deficit. and that had some of these vary krause components we talked about. but when he supported the short-term deal which as you've pointed out the president has made clear he opposes, the president sort of told the entire group that this is exactly what americans think of as washington at its worst, washington catering to the base, catering to politics, putting their own political future ahead of doing important things and taking on the big issues. and that he called on the group to take on this challenge and then called the meeting to an end. no matter how you read that, it's clearly an increase in tensions on day three of these debt negotiations with no sign of real progress with the clock ticking. and i do have it confirmed that this president really did say -- >> part of president obama's plan that he's been very kind of calculating in the way he's gone about these talks, intimating or letting the republicans talk about spending cuts and then only later on really being aggressive and pressing for revenue razors for tax increases down the road. how does the white house respond to that? is there any truth to that from the white house perspective? >> well, look, if this were part of plan he'd have a deal by you because no president wants this kind of debt threat hanging over their head. he cannot benefit from having any kind of default at this point in his presidency. so you could accuse the white house of playing tactics instead of having a strategy. you could accuse the president of going out and using this for his own political advantage to the extent he can. but laying this entire scenario out as some sort of grand plan is nothing that anyone would do, i'd argue for their own political advantage. the problem is at this point what we see is instead of progress, each side sort of digging in and taking a step backward at the very point when they need to be making, locking in deals and moving forward. >> and no sign of that. jessica yellin, appreciate the reporting tonight. joining us now is former mccain and palin campaign advisor nicole walsh. she also served as director of communications for the bush white house. she's also a novel it, the author of "eight teen acres kwmt". on the phone democratic strategy it paul begala. what do you make of this meeting and any potential signs for progress? >> what we thought was no drama obama sounds like a pretty dramatic meeting. i do think the only way you can get to a deal is if both sides want to deal. and the only way you get that is if the republicans believe that president would walk away if they don't meet him halfway or at least part of the way. it does seem to me untenable for one side to say, well, we'll even put social security on the table, which reported lit president has done. and the other side says, well, we won't put a nickel of revenue even from corporate loopholes on the table. it does seem like that's a pretty unfair negotiating strategy for republicans. and it looks like maybe it's blown up in their face. >> david gergen, your take on this and especially on this day where moody's is talking about reviewing a potential downgrade of our credit rating. >> anderson, i think the fact that meeting broke up in the way it did is extremely unfortunate, not only for trying to solve the debt ceiling but trying to solve the underlying problem of the mounting debts, the debt crisis that we're approaching. and i don't want to apportion blame here. i don't agree with paul's analysis but i don't want to get into the blame sort of situation. what it does seem to me is this, that the president and the leaders all have to come out of their corners and arrive at some sort of deal in the immediate future that averts a default on the national debt. that's the single most important thing. and whatever that deal is, the president says he does not want a short-term deal. i know personally that he feels very intensely about that. but his own top economic advisor, larry summers, wrote today in the financial times, he's got to get any deal is better than no deal. we have to get past the default crisis, and then we can deal. unfortunately we have to postpone this but then we can deal with the underlying issues of the mounting debts. >> nicole, you were in the bush white house where the debt ceiling was raised a number of times. now that you're in new york and have got some distance on d.c. how do you see this? >> i'm glad i write fiction now. but look, i don't know that we've ever seen a negotiation go from such highs where just days ago they were talk about a historic deal that would have a generational benefit and impact to bullying each other and cramming peas down each other's throat, pushing back from tables and digging in. so i think this deteriorated much more dramatically and much more quickly than anything else. and i think when you get out of washington, i think it's a cumulative thing with the public. the public is so beyond disgust with the leaders in washington. and i think even republican voices like shawn hannity are arguing in favor of making sure the country does not default on its debt. but i think what republicans feel like they've contributed if you will or their part of the compromise was agreeing to let this country get deeper into debt. >> but from a republican perspective, nicole, where do you see the possibility for compromise? is compromise possible? i mean, if republicans are saying the line in the sand is absolutely no tax raising, how do you increase revenues? >> well, i think republicans are against raising taxes for some pretty good reasons. one, we're not an undertaxed country. two, raising taxes doesn't actually get at the cause of our deficits. our deficits are in part as large as they are because we haven't had any growth in years now. so i think republicans will make the case, and it will play out if not in washington then in the presidential campaign in the next year. this debate about how to grow our way out of these deficits. but look, what's at issue at the moment is getting a deal done. and i think as unfortunately so often happens in washington, something small, something temporary and something that both sides are unhappy about is probably what will ensue. >> paul, is a compromise possible? >> well, it's essential. it's absolutely necessary. but you do have what i think the sense planners would call asymmetrical warfare. there's nothing more central to being a democrat than protecting entitlements likes social security and medicare. this president has apparently put them on the table. there's no bigger trump card he has as a democrat to say, okay, i am a democratic president. i'm going to cut social security. >> they're saying the president hasn't been -- >> but the republicans have to come with taxes. >> republicans have been saying in this meeting to the president that he hasn't been specific about what spending cuts he's talking about. >> i'm not in the room. but i think we know what social security is, we know what medicare is and we know what no is. the republicans' position is untenable. we have both a spending problem and a revenue problem. it's obvious. federal tax revenues now are only 15% of gdp. federal spending is 25% of gdp. both of those lines need to meet, you can't do it with spending alone or taxes alone. it's actually a very obvious deal. it's just that one side won't give an inch and that's the republicans. >> david? >> well, that's one way of looking at it. i must say, look, there are some very strong ideological differences on this. the republicans are committed to lean government. they do want a smaller government. they want it much less than 25%. they believe the democrats are addicted to bigger government, and they believe a lot of what's being offered in these talks are gimmicks or are illusory in terms of budget cuts. and that's why they're saying, let's put, mr. president, put your budget out on the front of the public. let us see what you're proposing. you've never really proposed a serious budget. we have. we proposed oryan budget. where's yours? they're going to clash over. this but that's not the big point right now. the critical point is as moody's is warning as ben bernanke warned today and congress, the critical point is this country must not go into default on august 2nd. and they need to reach some minimal agreements to avoid that. that should not be hard to do. now, what they can get beyond that is really important, but it's not as urgently necessary as making sure we get this done. then we can move to the more moderate term crisis or the moderate crisis, moderate term crisis which is the huge deficits. we do have to solve those, but not before august 2nd. we have to get a deal to avoid a catastrophe on august 2nd. >> so nicole, for republicans tomorrow, do they need to change strategy given what happened today? or what do they do going into this meeting tomorrow? >> look, it was barack obama who stood in the rose garden just a few months ago and talked about -- when he signed into law the extension of the bush tax cuts he seemed to understand that raising taxes is not the right thing to do at this time for our country. so i think republicans, the difference between putting social security reform on the table and tax increases on the table is that social security and our entitlement programs are on a road to disappear. they're not going to be there if we don't do something about them. taxes don't have to increase. most people believe that we pay plenty of taxes, that we are -- don't think that when the dust settles that they'll be treated as comparable items. and i think that where the tea party, the establishment republicans and the independent voters of america are the most closely aligned is in their belief that the size and the costs of the federal government is way too much. >> nicole wallace, david gergen, paul begala, thank you very much. we're on facebook, follow me on twitter @ anderson cooper up next, a keeping them honest investigation. this is a really fascinating story. a man who claims to be a former islamic terrorist traveling the country advise, law enforcement about terror. just one catch, cnn's found no evidence he was ever actually a terrorist. and actually there's another catch as well. your tax dollars, our tax dollars, are going into his pocket. find out what happened when our drew griffin confronted him with questions and later a very close call for cnn's ben wedeman and his crew in libya. about as close as you can get to being caught in the mid of a fire fight. take a look. >> wait! wait! wait! wait! >> wait wait wait! >> wait until you see what happens next. this goes on. we'll talk with ben. he was all right and his crew was all right at the end of it but some incredibly tense moments that's going to get your heart to stop. we'll talk to ben also and show you the rest of that video. first let's check in with isha sesay. >> reporter: new developments in the halle berry case. her alleged stalker had a court date today. we'll tell you how he pleaded and what the court had to say. that and more when 360 continues. 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[ tony ] serving those who serve us all... one more way quicken loans is engineered to amaze. a man who claims to have unisneak insight on terrorism because he used to be a terrorist. walid shoe bought claims to have bombed an israeli bank, been a member of the plo who attacked israeli soldiers and grew up a moslem who hated jews. now converted to christianity he travels around the country lecturing police on islam. "god's war on terror". "satan's footstep," and "why i left jihad". he was in south dakota addressing more than 300 police officers and first responders. his message was american muslims need to be profiled. all islamic organizations from doctors to engineers to students ought to be investigated and mosques in the u.s. should be considered terror centers, not houses of worship. he says terrorism and islam are inseparable. >> you want them to say that islam was hijacked, it was not hijacked. islam is islam is islam. >> well, full disclosure, at one time or another cnn and other networks have turned to shoebat for his perspective on the war in terror. keeping them honest tonight, we're discovering that his story doesn't seem to add up. here's cnn's drew griffin or cnn's special investigations unit. >> i think we are at war with islamic fundamentalism and islamism which stems from islam. no historian can deny that islamists basically invaded christendom. >> wall lead shoebat's message is the epitome of good versus evil. he has an advertised pedigree that makes him an expert. islamic terrorist turned ultraconservative christian, a u.s. citizen because his mother is american, he is a darling on the terror circuit, the church and university circuits, and yes, he believes the war on terror is a holy war. he portrays himself as a man converted and on a mission. once a jew-hating, bomb-throwing terrorist, now a devout christian convert warning the world islam is out to destroy you. >> ♪ that's how you recite the koran. i know the koran inside out. english. and if you meet the unbelievers, then smite off their necks. what part of smite off their necks do you americans don't understand? >> reporter: his message, before a largely positive crowd of cops and emergency responders at this south dakota homeland security conference, trust no moslem especially those who organize. >> know your enemy! anoth know your enemy! all islamist organizations in america should be the number one enemy. all of them. islamist organizations. americans should be focused on. >> reporter: he is being paid $5,000 plus expenses to speak here with your tax dollars. he was also given a rapid city police guard during his time in the city. a nice day's work. and judging by his web site, where he highlights more than three dozen speaking engagements, shoebat gets a lot of work. being a terrorism expert has become a cottage industry since 9/11. the department homeland security has spent nearly $40 million of counterterrorism training just since 2006. dhs doesn't keep records on how much it's spent just on speakers. but some of the so-called experts who go around the country teaching and in some cases preaching about terrorism and the dangers of islam are not quite what they seem. people, it turns out, like walid shoebat. >> first i want to ask you what the purpose of your talk this morning to these cops and emergency responders here in south dakota. >> well, being an ex terrorist myself is to understand the mindset of the terrorist, number one. >> reporter: an ex-terrorist. it's walid shoebat's claim to fame. a terrorist, a plo member, who bombed a branch of an israeli bank in bethlehem square, throwing a fire bomb on the bank's roof. the problem with the story, with a lot of shoebat's stories, there's no evidence for them. and despite cnn's many requests, neither shoebat nor his business partner have provided us with any. >> in bethlehem square you specifically said you threw -- >> the bank was in the bethlehem square. >> you threw explosives on top of that bank? >> yes, i did. >> no record. >> reporter: cnn's jerusalem bureau went to great lengths trying to vary fight shoebat's story, finding the general location where the branch of bank lumie once stood but not finding anyone who could remember a bombing. we contacted the bank headquarters in tel aviv, asking officials to search records. no records found. and israeli police found no record anyone ever threw a bomb at the branch of the bank. >> why would the bank not have a record? why would the israeli police not have a record? >> the israeli police don't have a record, i don't know. i don't know where you checked, what dates, all these things. >> reporter: there's another part of his story that doesn't check out. shoebat says he was arrested and spent two weeks in an israeli prison. >> there's no record of you being in prison. i think there would be at least an arrest record. this he held you for two weeks. did the united states know you were in prison as a u.s. citizen? >> how about you and me go to the prison and exact the records? the record are there. would you be willing to do so? >> reporter: >> you obviously can see why people are critical of your claims. there's a whole lot of gaps in your story. >> there's no gaps in my story. >> we don't have a bank bombing. >> reporter: and we don't have a terrorist. because it turns out walid shoebat even on his own admission was never charged. >> i was in prison for a few weeks. >> was there a charge? >> no. i was a u.s. citizen, remember? i was born by an american mother. the other conspirators in the actened up in jail. i ended up being released. >> reporter: there's another problem, his family. in the neighborhood walid shoebat grew up relatives say he was a regular kid. his fourth cousin goes even further. >> translator: there were only two banks in bethlehem district, lumie and discount bank. walid never had any connection with those two banks. not a close or a distant connection. i tell you, this is out of experience. i am one of the people who are considered a responsible man in the area of bethlehem or beth sahur. i have never heard anything about walid being an mujahid or a terrorist. he claims this for his own personal reasons. >> drew, he's saying he claimed this for his own personal reasons. what personal reasons? >> reporter: there's a big personal reason here, called money. classic investigative reporting you follow the money, like his background how walid shoebat is now making that money is about as mysterious as his past. >> yeah. thewoman shoeb the walid shoebat foundation is that a charity? >> it's part of the ffmu. >> what does the ffmu? >> we are for information and we do speaking and we help christians that are being persecuted in countries like pakistan. and we help christians who are suffering all throughout the middle east. >> how do you do that? >> none of your business. >> none of your business? that's interesting. our investigation continues tomorrow night, right? what are we going to see tomorrow? >> yeah. tomorrow, how he makes a business out of his expertise, how these donations to his cause end up with a so-called foundation owned by his business partner. and also the bigger question, anderson, why are our taxpayers going to pay this guy? he can say whatever he is wants. but where are the people vetting these so-called terrorism experts that are suddenly making a lot of money in this country? >> that's interesting. drew, fascinating. we'll continue to follow up. we'll have that report part two tomorrow. thanks, drew, a lot coming up, you may not have been following the war in libya recently. but tonight you are going to get as close to the come bats as anyone can. our ben wedeman and his crew caught in the crossfire today literally. and the video of it is heart-stopping. >> you all right, guys? alec? >> everybody is fine. >> we're going as fast as we can. we can't tell who the -- >> going to show you the full video what happened. we'll talk to ben. he was able to get out. his crew's okay. how he and his crew got out alive we'll talk to him about that also should the man accused of shooting congresswoman gabrielle giffords, killing and wounding others. should he be forced to take medicine for his schizophrenia that would make him competent to stand trial and face the death penalty? the court has ruled. tell you what they decided today. hey can i play with the toys ? sure, but let me get a little information first. for broccoli, say one. for toys, say two. toys ! the system can't process your response at this time. what ? please call back between 8 and 5 central standard time. he's in control. goodbye. even kids know it's wrong to give someone the run around. at ally bank you never have to deal with an endless automated system. you can talk to a real person 24/7. it's just the right thing to do. ♪ [ cat meows ] ♪ [ whistles ] ♪ [ cat meows ] ♪ [ ting! ] [ male announcer ] travelers can help you protect the things you care about and save money with multi-policy discounts. are you getting the coverage you need and the discounts you deserve? for an agent or quote, call 800-my-coverage or visit travelers.com. somewhere in america, a city comes to life. it moves effortlessly, breathes easily. it flows with clean water. it makes its skyline greener and its population healthier. all to become the kind of city people want to live and work in. somewhere in america, we've already answered some of the nation's toughest questions. and the over sixty thousand people of siemens are ready to do it again. siemens. answers. in libya, eight opposition fighters that gadhafi regime were killed and dozen, wounded in new fighting tonight today in the western part of the country. rebel forces regained control of the village of qawalish in a five-hour battle. rebel leaders say gadhafi's forces had been bringing in weapons from africa using a highway leading from that village to tripoli. senior international correspondent been wedeman got a look at the fighting first hand when he and his crew were ambushed by gadhafi loyalists and caught in gunfire. take a look. >> you guys, wait! wait! wait wait wait! wait! >> wait wait wait! >> okay. just calm down. get down! get down! >> okay. we're leaving this area because there's gunfire all around us. and we believe that gadhafi's forces are doing a roundabout movement, so we are rushing out of this area. >> i've watched this -- ben, i've watched that video now multiple times and every time my heart is still racing. everyone in your crew is okay, yes? >> yeah. everybody's fine. in fact, that was just the beginning of a very long day. and there were other instances where we had to hug the dirt as we came under bombardment from rockets and mortars because this battle went on for a long time. eight were killed, at least 30 were wounded in the course of it. so everybody's fine. but it was a very long and difficult day anderson. >> for you and for the fighters, too, how do you know where the gadhafi forces are and it seems like you were saying that they were kind of circling around to kind of try to entrap you and/or the fighters. >> well, one of the problems in this part of libya is there's no cell phone communications. a few of the fighters have any walky talkies. so we got to the edge of this village. and there were just two young guys, maybe 17, 18 years old, supposedly manning the checkpoint. and they didn't seem to know what was going on. so our drivers went to the top of a hill overlooking the town. an when they got there they saw just about 150 meters away from them two cars full of gadhafi soldiers. and so they came running down the hill. and that's really when the gunfire began. so you really, whether you have -- it's very hard to know the situation on the ground. and you can just sort of turn a corner and find yourself face-to-face with the wrong people. and you may recall that when those four "new york times" journalists were kidnapped or captured by gadhafi forces, the first thing they did is the gadhafi soldiers was kill the driver. so thaeks plains why the driver was in such a hurry to get out of the area. because they know that journalists might be spared. the libyans will not. >> and how are the forces opposed to gadhafi, how are they doing? how is their -- early on for weeks we talked about their level of training and the disorganization. i assume that's gotten better. how much better has it gotten and how much progress and/or lack of progress has occurred? >> well, in this part of the country they do seem to have made progress. they've expanded the area. they control quite dramatically. so there are some areas you can drive for an hour and still be in rebel-held territory. but they may have reached sort of the edge of the zone that they can effectively control. increasingly they're coming upon towns that are not rebel -- they're not at all in favor of rebels. in fact, they're progadhafi. so every one of those towns they run into, the battles can be quite bloody and the aftermath quite messy. you saw the human rights watch report indicating that in towns that were known to be loyal to gadhafi, there were lots of instances of vandalism, of burning of houses, of in some cases mistreatment of prisoners. so that sort of atmosphere is going to make it very difficult for them to really make progress towards tripoli unless of course there's an uprising in tripoli itself. and of course we're heard from people in tripoli that that's not something -- that is something that could happen. but it's just a question of when. anderson? >> when and how. ben wedeman, appreciate it. remarkable day today. i'm glad you and your crew, mary and everybody are okay. let's check the latest on some other stories from isha sesay. anderson, after began president hamid karzai wept at his brother's burial today in the family's an chris tral village. walid karzai was one of the most controversial men in afghan. the same-sex marriage law signed last month by new york governor andrew cuomo has caused the town clerk to resign. mora a republican from new york says she'll quit on july 21nd, three days before the law takes effect, to avoid compromising her "moral conscience". a california man charged with stalking actress halle berry has pleaded not guilty. richard anthony franco was arrested after allegedly trespassing three times in three days on berry's hollywood hills estate. at his arraignment franco was ordered to stay 500 yards away from the actress. and a 360 follow, it started as a bet, anderson, remember marine sergeant scott? he's currently serving in afghanistan. and he made a youtube video asking actress me la kunis out on a blind date. it worked. she agreed to be his date at this november's marine corps ball. after some encouragement from her friends with benefits costar justin timberlake. a happy ending, right? not so fast. according to actors hollywood live mila will be busy filming two movies in november and she can't go after all. >> oh, no. >> i know. instead she said she'll meet in private with sergeant moore. >> that's good. >> no. no. i think you should join me in urging her to reconsider. >> i tell you. i met her once and she's really cool. she seems super nice. so i'm sure she would go if she could. but at least she's going to meet the guy so that's cool. >> aren't you a fan of love? i'm being a fan of love here? oh, you think there's actually going to be love here now. >> i'm a woman. fais fast forwarding it to love and happiness. >> wow. slow down there, isha. >> okay. i'll slow my roll. i'll slow it down. whatever. >> all right. time now for the shochlt one of our interns spotted this on youtube. an embarrassing moment caught on tape during a recent broadcast of bbc breakfast. charlie state is talking about 3d movies with cohost susanna reid and suffered i guess an epic memory failure. let's take a look. >> i went to see a 3d film recently in which someone i was with just took the glasses off quite early on and said it made no difference whatsoever. >> that was me when we went to see -- >> okay. >> i can't believe that. >> we went to see a film recently. >> a screening at "the green lantern". in fact. >> midway through i turned to you because obviously it was you who was with me at the film. and you didn't have your glasses. >> three days. have you seriously forgot snn we went to the cinema together three days ago. >> what was the film? >> "green lantern". i just said that to you and you've forgotten it. >> already forgot it was "green lantern" again. >> and he forgot he was with here. >> that is classic. >> what can i say? i just put it down to early mornings, breakfast television. >> yeah. but she seem to have kind of rememberedal the details. it doesn't really surprise me the guy is like i was at the movie with someone. i can't remember who it was. >> she probably like me had fast forwarded it. >> she thought this was a big night out. >> she did indeed. >> oh, well. >> great moment. a lot more ahead tonight. serious stuff coming up in crime and punishment. the ruling that some are calling infuriating is going to keep jared lee loughner, congresswoman gabrielle giffords's accused shooter from facing trial anytime soon. dr. drew pinsky and sunny hostin weigh in on a complicated issue. should he be forced to take medicine to treat his schizophrenia which would allow him then to be ruled competent to go to trial plus oprah winfrey is getting a new role at her struggling network. details on that ahead. how does it do that? well, to get there, a lot of complicated engineering goes into every one. like variable valve timing and turbocharging, active front grille shutters that close at high speeds, and friction reducing -- oh, man, that is complicated. how about this -- cruze eco offers 42 miles per gallon. cool? ♪ whose long day starts with arthritis pain... and a choice. take tylenol arthritis and maybe up to six in a day... or choose aleve and two pills for a day free of pain. happy chopping. t the motorola expert from sprint. its powerful tools help you work faster and smarter so you can get back to playing "angry birds." it lets you access business forms on the go, fire off e-mails with the qwerty keypad, and work securely around the world so you can get back to playing "angry birds." it's the android-powered phone that mixes business with pleasure. so let's get our work done, america, so we can all get back to playing "angry birds." the motorola expert from sprint. trouble hearing on the phone? visit sprintrelay.com. so every year my family throws this great reunion in austin. but this year, i can only afford one trip and i've always wanted to learn how to surf. austin's great -- just not for surfing. so i checked out hotwire. and by booking with them, i saved enough to swing both trips. see, hotwire checks the competition's rates every day so they can guarantee their low prices. that's how i got a 4-star hotel on the beach in san diego for half price. ♪ h-o-t-w-i-r-e ♪ hotwire.com in crime and punishment tonight, a controversial ruling that will ensure that congresswoman gabrielle giffords's alleged shooter will not face trial anytime soon. a federal appeals panel has ruled that jared lee loughner can until his next hearing in late august refuse anti-psychotic medication, the very drugs that right now are the only thing standing between him and a jury. in may, loughner who has schizophrenia was ruled incompetent to stand trial in the january shooting rampage that killed six people, wounded 13, congresswoman giffords among them suffered the most serious injuries. she was shot point blank in the head while meeting with constituents at a shopping mall. well, loughner's being held at a federal mental hospital, and his lawyers argue that prosecutors wanted to medicate their client merely to make him able to stand trial rather than to keep him safe. their argument worked. but it also means a very sick man is not getting treatment that he obviously need. i talked earlier with sunny hostin, legal contributor for "in session "on trutv and dr. drew pinsky, host of hln's "dr. drew". >> dr. drew, from a medical ethics standpoint are you comfortable with this ruling? >> well, i'm not -- i'm uncomfortable with most of this entire situation. i mean, the fact is the physicians that are involve in this case are in a double bind on almost every front. on one hand they have a gentleman who is dangerous, who has been a killer, who is acting out dangerously, and they can't treat him. he is diagnosed with skit friend yeah and they can't give him the routine medications you would give somebody to frankly make them feel and be better and also make it possible to keep them from endangering themselves or other people on the unit. they're not being able to do that because of another ethical issue which is what rights do people have to render somebody improved and competent in order to have them stand trial. now, mind you, somebody who is psychotic when they committed their crimes, we're making them better to stand trial for a possible death penalty case. it's really a problematic situation for the doctors. >> but sunny, it did seem that authorities were saying, well, look, he threw a chair and he acted out in his room. and therefore we need to medicate him. he was being a danger to himself and to others. there are those who say, well, look, plenty of patients do that and don't get forcibly medicated and they were trying to do an end run basic will he around the system. because if they can say he need to be medicated for his own protection they didn't have to go through an entire court hearing to get him medicated, they could just do it with an administrative hearing where the rules are a lot easier. >> that's right. and i think that's why this appellate court did the right thing. the defense argument is compelling the they're saying if you want to make him competent to stand trial then you need to meet the more robust requirements that supreme court has set out, and that is as you mentioned, have a full hearing and say what it is. this means you don't want to really protect -- to determine the medical issues but also the legal issues. and really the legal issue here is, are you trying to make him competent to stand trial, or are you really just trying to make him safe for himself and others? and i don't think that appellate court bought that state argument. >> dr. drew, from what you know publicly about the public information that's out there that he threw a chair, i mean, does that seem to have reached the level that he is dangerous enough that he needs to be forcibly medicated? >> let's think about this for a second. it's across a six-month window that he had these outburst, i understand that people are skeptical there were a couple of outbursts across that period. this is a man killed six people, witness today have killed six people with a diagnosis of schizophrenia who must be miserable much and these doctors cannot do their job. but the door interestingly has been left open to do things that we're not allowed to do where we at least try not to do out in the community, which they have left the door open to leather restraints and takedowns and emergency tranquilizers which are the worst practice of medicine. that's harm. that's really putting this guy in harm's way. as opposed to -- >> i want to disagree a bit with dr. drew. this is an issue that has been around for decades. can you forcibly medicate a pre-trial prisoner, a pre-trial detainee. and i think it makes us feel bad, right? because in these united states you can't force inly medicate any adult. it's sort of your fundamental right to refuse medication. people refuse medication all the time. they refuse medication for cancer. >> except when they're in danger to themselves and others, that's what we seem to have here. >> dr. drew, let's face it. isn't there a more or rather less intrusive way of protecting him? he's been in isolation. he threw a chair against a wall. >> you now are practicing medicine. and i'm telling you [ overlapping speakers ] >> that does not stand up to scrutiny. >> it stand up to supreme court scrutiny. it absolutely does. >> the fact is, this is what's so difficult about practicing medicine. you put the doctors in binds on every front. the standard in the community is, you avoid restraints, you avoid emergency tranquilizers. >> but you can't forcibly medicate anyone, adults. [ overlapping speakers ] >> when they're a danger to themselves in emergent situation two doctors can do that. >> that's the issue. is he really a danger to himself? [ overlapping speakers ] >> wait a minute. sunny, this is not just some guy who was talking to himself on a subway and was arrested and wound up in jail. this is a guy who was witnessed -- he has not been convicted in a court of law. he's presumed to be innocent. but there were witnesses who saw him shoot people. >> sure. >> trying to kill people. and in fact killing people. >> but the question is, is he a danger to others right now? he's in isolation. he's separated from everyone else. and when you look at that fact -- >> is that appropriate for him? is that good care for him? that's the kind of care you want to avoid. that's cruel care. as opposed to giving him the routine things that actually make him better. >> but you can't force inly -- it's about force inly medicating someone. >> you're absolutely right. but that's the bind the physicians are. in by the same token, then you're asking them to render this guy competent so he can stand trial when he was known to be psychotic when he committed these acts. i can understand the doctors not wanting to do that as well. >> it is a fascinating case. dr. drew, thank you very much. sunny hostin as well, thanks. >> it's a tough call. we're debating right now on twitter @ anderson cooper still ahead tonight, should severely obese kids be taken away from their parents for their own good? a doctor and harvard researcher say yes. we'll explain that. and the ridiculist. a foo fighter fighter lands on the list. we inspect your air filter, cabin filter. there's bugs, leaves, lint, crud. you'll be breathing that. i do believe it's part of a locust. make sure your alignments good. your brakes are good. you've got all sorts different things that you check off. your fluid levels. pretty much everything you could need. it gets done. it gets done quickly. and it gets done correctly. the works fuel saver package, just $29.95 or less after rebate. only at your ford dealer. you're a doctor. you're a car doctor. maybe a car doctor. captain, unidentified object -- detergent chamber. that's a cascade complete pac. the best of cascade powder and gel combined in one vessel. brilliant. we're gonna need it! lasagna pan -- lower rack! fire! 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[ male announcer ] time to check your air conditioning? come to meineke now and get a free ac system check and a free cooler with paid ac service. meineke. we have the coolest customers. 8 coming up, a foo fighter's concert goer lands on the ridiculous. first isha sesay. >> reporter: anderson, three senators are calling for a federal investigation into whether rupert murdoch's media empire went too far here in the u.s. they want to know if any americans had their voice mail hacked by news corps newspaper. the allegations are already under investigation in britain where the scandal began. the struggling oprah winfrey network is getting a new ceo, oprah winfrey. she'll take the top post this fall. and she's combining the new los angeles-based channel with her chicago-based production company, harpo studios. winfrey says she wants to "unleash the full potential of the network". parents in some cases should lose custody of their severely obese children. that's a suggestion from a doctor and researcher at harvard university. they say the move may be justifiable because of the health risks to the child and the parents' chronic failure to address them. their controversial idea is in the journal of american medical association. and harry potter and the death lay hall lows part 2 has already racked in $25 million in the u.s. and it hasn't even opened yet. it's all from presales. the movie opens friday. >> i want to see the movie in 3d, though. >> i do, too, actually. time now for the ridiculist. tonight we're adding a guy who i like to call the foo fighter fool fighter. now, we don't officially know his name. he went to a foo fighters concert in london last night. apparently got into some kind of dust up in the audience and dave groll thinks he's an a hole. his agitation amp goes to 11. >> hey, [ expletive ], no, no, no. you don't [ expletive ] try to fight at my show, your [ expletive ]. who's fighting right now? who's fighting? >> let me see him. is that that [ expletive ] guy in the striped shirt right there. hey, you in the striped shirt. look at me, your [ expletive ]. look at me. get the [ expletive ] out of my show right now. get the [ expletive ] out of my show. get the [ expletive ] out of my show right now. >> you might almost feel sorry for the guy in the striped shirt if i hadn't spent a lot of time on london where any weeknight you are bound to see a couple of drunk guys punching each others outside pubs after they have european nighted on the street and on the street and or themselves and or their urine. i know. it's disgusting. so i got to go with administrative groll on this one. it's a good opportunity for to us discuss basic concert-going etiquette. a few rules. don't fight, don't push, don't stand on your seats. don't get drunk and sing off key at the top of your lungs. unless you're courtney cox in a bruce springsteen video do not try to get on stage and dance. it's not funny anymore. even if you think you're being ironic the irony is you're not. whatever you do, this is very important so come here. just come here a little closer. come here a little closer if you can. listen carefully. do not talk on your cell phone in the front row at a tori amos concert. believe me. don't let the whole willowy piano-playing wood sprite image fool you. she can pull out the f bomb faster can you can say. >> get the [ expletive ] out of my show. it's a privilege to sit in the front row. >> thrown out of a tori amos concert. that, my friends, is a walk of shame. another word of advice, if you're at a faith hill concert and her husband tim mcgraw is playing, too, don't touch tim's mcgroin. >> somebody needs to teach you some class, my friend. you don't go grabbing somebody else's -- somebody's husband's [ expletive ]. >> first of all i love faith hill. i also love how the band is still playing and she's still kind of dancing as she gives a serious southern smackdown to the package handler. okay. so let's just sum up. no talking in the front row, no crotch grabbing. and please, no few fighting. >> you don't come to my show and fight. you come to my show and [ expletive ] dance. >> that's right, you a hole. dance. dance like you never danced before. and try to avoid an encore on the ridiculist. we'll be right back. here at quicken loans, we like to go the extra mile for our clients. with the wassman family, it was 2,500 extra miles. we're the wassman family from skagway, alaska. livin' so far out and not havin' a bank within 90 miles... i was runnin' into dead ends. happened to come across quicken loans online. 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