>> i think there was a very strong-felt need on the part of the church fathers to put women into their place. so by dividing women into madonnas and whores, they could either be all good or all evil. >> these two women wouldn't matter at all, were it not for their relationship to jesus. one as the mother of the son of god and the other, some scholars say, as the messiah's favorite apostle. today, the marys are taking on new identities. while traditional devotion to the virgin mary is experiencing a rebound, there is also a new focus on mary of nazareth as a kind of first century feminist, not the icon so familiar to generations. >> that icon highlights the spiritual angle of a person. but know that that icon is rooted in history, and it's the history of a poor woman in a violent situation who suffered violence. and if you realize that, even the most spiritualized icon is going to make you turn toward poor women in violent situations