and many cbp customs and border protection high-level officials have told members of congress and the public that they're concerned about terrorist and known as what we call k asts, known suspected terrorists, and people in the no fly list sneaking across the southern border because of the the volume of individuals that are coming and the number of countries are coming from. >> i mean, this is exactly what we've heard from republican critics of the southern border and how it's being handled at this moment is a concern that this something like this could happen and the system not working yeah, it's always a concern, especially when we would call them up the gottaways. so if you look at if one in every hundred thousand individuals who get away is a known as suspected terrorists. you can have dozens or hundreds of individuals that could potentially threats and so this is a wake-up call to all yeah. >> it certainly is marvin southern border. your connection broke up a little there at the bet, but a great point and we'll keep watching this denial, harvard. thank you for that. thank you all so much for joining us. state a news night with abby. phillip starts now republicans tried to eat their cake and have it too that's tonight on these nine good evening. >> i'm have you fill up in new york tonight president biden and his family are huddling together in delaware. after a jury convicted his surviving son on all three federal gun charges. it is the first time in american history that an immediate family member of a sitting us president was convicted of a crime. now the moment, of course, creates the split-screen of conservatives who just 12 days ago were slamming the rule of law, slamming the judge, the jury, and the verdict in donald trump's manhattan trial some even claimed the conviction was the end of the republicans. we know it but tonight, they seem to be singing from a completely different tune this is a new error in america, and i think it goes against the elc of who we are as americans and our faith in the criminal justice system in the end, this juror, jury of ordinary people from delaware, we're not intimidated and by that family and they recognize that this was a clear cut case and that clearly no one is above the law. this is a very political exercise. and you have to say that it accomplish what it set out to accomplish. but i would say this abet judge noreika, i think she ran a very fair courtroom. she ran a very fair brian, i guess we all need to shop at banana republic from now on because that's what it feels like. yeah, a banana republic for years, the bikes have been able to escape any legal accountability for their sleazy corrupt conduct but today they're luck ran out, at least hunters did. >> power is all they love. >> and they're willing to do anything to cling to it. they're willing to destroy the rule of law the republic has been wounded by week lawyers and talent less political bloodhounds gave me a little boost of confidence in the american legal system although they still have a lot of work to do to win me back, i believe that there was a conscious collusion of allies that came together it's pretty obvious with a private strategy to eliminate a common shared adversary, a hundreds going to jail. so joe doesn't have to and when he comes out, he'll be rewarded for his loyalty, like a made man and a biden crime family. this is a distraction from the influence, peddling and the kickbacks yes. >> these are two different trials under very different circumstances. hunter biden was federal trump's was not the crimes and the evidence all completely different. but you can't claim the justice system is dead because of a single conviction, while also praising it for another you can't claim president biden is weaponizing the justice department to go after his enemies. when that same department just convicted his own son but in a world of maga, perhaps you can prominent conservatives are trading baseless conspiracies, for another now they're claiming that hunter biden's trial was a sham to give cover to biden. >> charlie kirk. kirk says the democrats will use the conviction to claim that the system is fair. vivek ramaswamy, he calls it a smokescreen to deflect attention from biden's other crimes republican senator tom cotton says, it's a way to insulate joe biden who is guilty of corruption trump's campaign calls the case a distraction from the quote biden crime family. now remember, this is the same biden that conservatives claim can't walk, can't talk or think on his own but just so we're clear, biden has no power over a state-level prosecution but the same federal government that he actually runs just prosecuted his own son and the system we're supposed to believe is rate that just makes no sense we're gonna get to all of that in a moment. but first, tonight joining me now is reverend dr. christopher bolick. he is a spiritual advisor to light and family and the pastor at canaan baptist church in new castle, delaware. reverend, thank you for being with us. >> it's good to be with you, abby. god bless you. thank you for having me. >> thank you for being here. you spoke last night or before this verdict, i should say, with hunter biden how was he when you last spoke with him? >> he was upbeat. he was positive and but he understood the gravity of the situation and the nature of the trial. so he is well aware of what the possibilities where uncertainty disappointed in the verdict. however, things did not go on his favor does not mean that the favor of god is not a ban him. we believe that his faith is strong course is family is strong and width him. and i encouraged him to look to the heel from what's come at this help? all of his help coming from the lord. but he's focused and we know that things are going to work out in the end a hunter biden has talked about his addiction. >> he's talked about what that has been like for his life, but i wonder on this particular issue or the set of issues that he was charged, it has now been convicted of has he ever expressed remorse for what led to all of this? >> i believe that he's aware of every step of his journey and remorse is a part of the process therefore, he is prepared to move forward knowing that god is a forgiving god he has said in his own words that he has hurt people along the wake but we know that the power of prayer, the power family, the power of faith can change him and any situation listen, abbe this addiction issue is a disease this impacted millions of americans regardless of race, creed, or color, phd, no, d, g, d, md jd. this disease is real. and we know that it's a journey and it's a season in his life and this season will hopefully in, in a way in which we've been endured for night, but joy will come in the next season i cnn spoke earlier today with one of the jurors in this case. >> juror number ten, i want to play for you. what he said about the defense i felt i felt bad that they put naomi on trial on witness i i think that was probably a strategy that should not have been done no. no daughter should ever have to testify or again, sir, dad you know, this family wow. was it a mistake for the defense to put a hunters own daughter through that i think they had to make some critical decisions. they had a particular strategy and they were going for what would work for them, what would give them favor in the face of the jury at all? the judge at all who are concerned. it was painful. but we understand that the fence had a strategy. they believe it would work. and we know that this family, again it has gone through was going through a lot and at the end of the day, it's all about what's in the best interests of hunter and the biden family we saw those emotional images of president biden hugging his only surviving son can you tell us what this has been like for him going through this trial? >> a different kind of trial compared to some of the other trials that he's gone through in his life with the loss of his late wife and several of his other children president, my friend and brother is a man of resilience. a man of deep faith a, man who understands the hand of god when god's hand moves in, his life. and he said that, let justice play out and whatever the decision was of the jewelry, he would respect and accept the decision. but when i saw him come home tonight and embraced his son i saw the power of love let me say this. abby love is greater than politics the bible says, loves the more excellent way love indu, with all things, believes all things love is patient. love is kind and the script it talks about that. nothing can separate us from the love of god, the love of god is in that family our president and first lady. they love onto and we love him and we will continue to walk alongside him with the ministry of presence. my role has been the past of presence in the courtroom. we prayed three times in the courtroom. we brought the church house to the courthouse. we prayed openly we prayed, we hugged, and he knows the power of prayer and god always has the last word. and i just think something good is going to come out of this in the end. and god will use this moment for his glory on his own time reverend dr. christopher bullock. >> thank you very much for sharing all of that with us god bless you. >> thanks for having me abbe and for more. let's bring in our panel here, former clinton white house aide, keith boy can also with a cnn political commentator, s. >> e. cupp and reason editor at large, matt welch asieh, that at the end there is basically what the message from the biden world is going to be about this, which is that this is a story three of a family, a family like any other, where someone has messed up. and the father loves the son. nothing more. do you think that that is going to work in this situation? >> i think everyone can relate to some parts of this. >> i don't find a hunter biden to be a terribly sympathetic figure, not because of his addiction, but because he's messed up a lot. he's broken the law and i don't think he's been a great family man, but at the end of the day, this is someone sign that someone happens to be the president. and for the president to say, i'm not putting my finger on the scale for this one. i'm not i don't even want to talk about it. i can't imagine how you do that. i can't imagine as a parent, how you disassociate from that. and i think that will look very noble and good to a lot of democratic voters. >> there's also a possibility that this completely doesn't matter to voters at all yeah i'm one of the people who thinks it doesn't really matter to voters. >> hunter biden is not running for president and i don't know if that's a newsblaster. anyway, but donald trump was convicted and he is running for president hunter biden is a son of a candidate for president and the president himself refused as estee pointed, to, put his thumb on the scale of justice. he refused to intervene, he refused to stop the prosecution, refused to condemn the judge and jury. he refused to promise to pardon hunter biden after the conviction that's a stark and dramatic contrast from everything adopted. trump has done since donald trump has been on trial attacking everybody involved in his trial. okay. let me play this from the speaker of the house, mike johnson. he was asked by our own manu raju about the way that republicans are responding to a hunter biden versus how they dealt with donald trump. listen mr. speaker, you've been saying two tier system of justice for some time. >> here's the president's son being convicted on three counts. that undercut your client. >> it doesn't every cases different and clearly the evidence is overwhelming here. i don't think that's the case and the trump trials and all the of charges that have been brought against could have been obviously brought for political purposes. a hunter biden as a separate instance that's a separate instance, but the other thing about the hunter biden is that this is not the only hunter biden trial. >> we'll see. there will be another one. it come this fall. so are we going to go through the motions again? i'm saying everything hot? that happens to hunter is aboveboard. anything that happens to trump is not i think that the way that we should think about this is to try to get ourselves as individual consumers out of the non-stop political consideration. >> let's look for the republicans. there's at least one thomas massie. i saw him do this in congress today. say this is ridiculous. he, let's, we shouldn't be convicting someone and sending him to 25 years in prison for doing one thing, he lied on an application. >> there's no victim in this crime. >> there's no victim and trump's crime either, right? so if we we have a sickness of in the criminal justice system in this country, we have so many people in jail. >> we have so many victimless crimes. >> harvey solar relate the great civil libertarian writer has had a book called three felonies a day. that's the average that us very law-abiding citizens on this panel commit everyday because there's so much in the criminal code. right. so that puts everything up to the discretion. question of prosecutors. >> and we're sitting around and if we're republican, we cheered hunter biden getting locked up or a convicted for democrat would share donald trump, i say as americans, let's work back. >> is there a victim if there's not, let's stop sharing i listen. >> i'm glad it for ones we are talking about the ways in which perhaps this country over criminalizes people, 20 people in prison. i just never thought that it would come up because of donald trump and hunter biden. >> but let me just as a gun owner. >> okay it's a crime to lie on a gun application for a reason. and there could have been a victim to this crime that's why you don't lie on a form or purchase a firearm. there wasn't that's lucky. but it's bad for every law abiding gun owner when people break the law in an attempt to buy a gun. >> i mean, i think that should have been i understand both your points, but i thought the point matt was making surprise. i agree with you and this is that even if we think that that hunter biden did something wrong, he broke the law which the jury found that he did maybe we shouldn't be putting him in jail for them. i'm not sure if that's what you're making your knife. maybe you're making definitely a point. maybe you're making whether we shouldn't be prosecuting him. i think we should prosecute people when they when they violate the law, then maybe we shouldn't put everybody in jail and incarcerate everybody when they aren't found guilty. many people think have committed unlawful drug use while filling out a gun applicant probably 20 million. well, if they look at the number of gun owners in the number of people who smoke pot 20 million people and very few get prosecuted. almost all of whom who do have less material advantages than 100 biden does. are we thinking about that joe biden go to jail? >> i mean, he might not serve. >> i'm saying we shouldn't be prosecuting people who smoke, break the law, who break. we should i say, this is man, granted, this is a weird libertarian thing to say, but i think that if you would expect nothing less, if the victim is the government's yeah. and you smoke pot and it filled out an application. you can get punished and not go to understand to properly understand the gun the part i take very seriously. >> do you think that this is an example? look, i mean, if we're talking about tonight, okay. maybe the argument is donald trump would not have been prosecuted where he not president hunter biden, would he have been prosecuted where he not the president's son? >> i don't think he might have been prosecuted. probably not. and he certainly wouldn't have had this thing here where we discovered new felonies only after the plea agreement fell down. think about this, like months ago were like cool with him walking free. and now we're like maybe he should go to jail for up to 25 years this is also a trial penalty, right? this is the reason why 98% of all criminal cases never go to trial because they're always stacking up of charges to scare the bejesus out of you so that you'll plead guilty and then you'll walk or maybe you'll go to jail for a brief period of time. >> can i just ask a case i mean, i think that's a very good faith argument that we're hearing here for matt. would you even consider applying that same argument to donald trump in terms of the crime that he was convicted of, new york absolutely. i don't believe in i don't believe in incarcerating everybody, including donald trump i know i've never wanted to lock him up people i've said that as a joke on my internet feeds but for the most part, i don't think we shouldn't be blocking anybody got for nonviolent white-collar crimes are non-violent offenses in general, i think we should find other forms of ways to freak to treat with, to deal with the situation of crime without incarcerating people. and we don't do that. and our country where there's donald trump or hunter biden, let's be fair, but i agree with you on that. >> all right. well, we have a lot of agreement at the table here. i appreciate that everyone stick around breaking news tonight from the pioneers having mccarthy's revenge tour against her pop blinken's who ousted him, plus the justice department takes the extraordinary step of debunking one of trump's most common conspiracies. and as concerned for this plot, a second trump term, democrats are now making moves of their own for 2025. this is news well, it's hard besides dad is a legends that his legendary moves might be passed down to you. ancestry dna can show you which traits were inherited where they came from and who he shares them with? but get moving. this sale is only for a limited time, introducing new advil targeted relief. the only topical 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than expected and is helping the entire world the fbi reporting that violent crime in america has shown historic declines with the murder rate showing the sharpest drop they also come as a group of house democrats are now launching a counter to the infamous project 2025, put forward by conservatives that's the heritage foundation's plan for a second trump term, which proposes eliminating, for example, the justice department, the homeland security department, and the fbi. now, even though it's only june if democrats, for example, our delta good hand politically the question is, are they capable of actually playing it i mean this is the big question. if you've got an economy that is actually humming along, you've got crime that is going down that is a reversal of fortunes for democrats. and yet americans are still sauer. can they reverse that? is that messaging? is it something else? they're not feeling it yet. americans are not feeling this american economic large jess, they don't care that we're helping the world. most americans feel like i helped my my own bank account, helped my wallet helped me at the pump they're not feeling they're feeling more unsafe. they're not feeling like crime is going down. so the numbers are important. but you can't tell voters that what they're feeling is wrong. and so the messaging is very complicated for joe biden and democrats to say, look how great the world is. but i know you're still hurting on this stuff is like a lagging indicator in a way sometimes i actually don't know if that characterization is right. i see because according to the polls, i've seen, the public actually, they do feel that their personal economic situation is better. >> i just talking two according according to the polls, this is they don't feel like that the country has as a whole other, everyone else is doing as well, but they individually feel better about the, about their economic situation according to the polls, i say maybe i'm incorrect, but that's what i've seen. >> i think and i think trump voter one of the major reasons is they feel like this economy is terrible and inflation has been bad for them personally. >> well, i think the reality is that because people's wages have increased faster than actual inflation has increased, people have a stronger economic position and they would be otherwise we also know that more people have jobs 15.6 million people have jobs now for the african american community, we've had the lowest black unemployment rate in history. >> we also complaining about that. >> no you're not playing. i know i know. but i think also i don't want to be the person to make this argument, but i'm going to make it anyway. the media, we have a responsibility for his for doing this too. >> we can we continue to say this is reporting the facts. >> the economy is doing well or crime is going down. we say the economy is going well and the crime is going down. but this isn't really playing for the american people. why is it playing for the american people? because we keep asking this question the way that makes it a question instead of a fat, it is that the current that crime is going down. we're talking to the fact the kind of thing, but that's a direction as opposed to like an overall real-world thing. >> we had an incredible insane spike in the year 2020 in everything 2020, we lost our marbles and yes, things trend better since 2020, but a lot of people remember 2019 and that's not like a, like a trump nostalgia bit. >> they just remember when prices were different, when interest rates, which is a huge thing that almost never gets discussed about home prices. it is really, you can feel that and see that prices are just higher than they were in 2020 or 2021. and it's not gonna be good messaging to say you're just not understanding how great the economy you want to get to project 2025 for a second here, because this is something that i have noticed. i don't know if you've noticed this. i see a lot of more liberals talking about this. it's kinda wonky, but it's become real fodder for democrats to say here are the extremist plans for a second, trump administration is this a wound that republicans have opened up for themselves? >> no, it is an election year, democratic party branding exercise, and it's not actually very serious if your project is to stop pop bad people from exercising government power. >> if you were actually interested in saying, oh no, trump might be in power, we should do something. maybe you would've spend a minute. i don't know over the last four years or eight years, we're filling whatever timeline you want. actually reducing the power in the presidency, actually reducing power in government. i don't think elizabeth warren has been like, how can i reduce whose power in government? >> joe biden signed an asylum executive order last week that he knows is probably illegal that trump used that was thrown out by the courts because he was probably illegal. it's not about the use of the power is about the abuse of power and democrats don't have the power and have never had the power to be able to unilaterally make these decisions. because of the way you have a complicated system of government with the senate and the house and the filibusters know that. >> i think that the problem is that would project 2025 does is it takes us back in time. >> it reverses it reverses basic the 20th century. it takes us back to a time. the civil service rules don't apply. where protections for lgbtqi people don't exist, protections for women don't exist protections for minorities and immigrants and african americans don't exist. rev, voting rights are decimated, would become a christian nationalist country. and this is all weaponized because donald trump has no policy issues that he talks about. it just talks about his personal grievances. it's the only thing we have to go on is project 2025 and the heritage foundation and the conservative scholars who are putting this out there are letting us know that this is the plant they will implement if trump is elected. >> well, i'm just glad that democrats are taking this seriously because i hear a lot of denialism from the left people who say the polls aren't wrong. joe biden is going to win, don't worry about this. i am glad there are democrats in the house who are very seriously considering what will happen when trump wins. yeah, we will see what kind of turnout mechanism this product 2025 turns out to be for democrats, keith asieh and matt. thank you all very much. and extraordinary step for the doj. now, disproving a conspiracy theory, i'll explain what the attorney general merrick garland said about that next. plus liberal tv host rachel maddow says that she is afraid the trump who jail her and other americans. bryan stelter joints plus results are rolling in now when key states across the country tonight, we'll have the latest on tonight's primary elections just to the most anticipated moment of this election and the stakes couldn't be higher. the president and the former president's one stage moderated by jake tapper and dana bash, the cnn presidential debate thursday, june 27th, nine live on cnn and streaming un-backed see idp disrupts the idp derails. let's be honest sucks but living with the idp doesn't have to. >> when you sign up at shining through cid p.com, you'll find inspiration and real patients stories, helpful tips, reliable information mentioned, and mower cid peak can be tough. but finding hope just got a little easier. >> sign up and shining through cip.com. >> be heard, be hopeful the darkness of bipolar depression make me feel like i was losing interest in the things i love. then i found a chance to let in the light, discover, capitalize unlike some medicines that only treat bipolar one capital letter is proven to deliver significant symptom relief from both bipolar one and two depression. and clinical trials, movement disorders and weight gain. we're not 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including this one that the biden administration coordinated with the manhattan da's office by sending an official there to target trump and now joe biden has weaponized law enforcement to interfere in our elections. >> matthew colangelo. it colangelo's should know. >> he faces years in prison. this was planned from the biden white house, is top person called angelo and some others i've been placed into the da's office to make sure they do a good job of election interference. >> the number three under merrick garland at the department of justice, he left that cushy job at the department of justice to go be a line prosecutor in a city office that shows how coordinated this is. >> these are all biden trials because let's call angela works for biden. >> can you imagine they take a guy out of doj and they put them into the attorney general's office and then the manhattan da's office. >> to go after trump. >> alvin bragg, who not only met with joe biden, joe biden's lawyers in the white house. he took one of joe biden's lawyers from the department of justice to have him bring this case back collegial was obsessed with trump before mac collegial worked for letitia james michelangelo knows that democratic operative, he seems obsessed with trump. so now he comes back there to revitalize this case. well, angelo is a radical left from the doj, who was put into the state working with letitia james. and then was put into the district attorney's office to run the trial. hello. against trump. >> give us the communications if they exist, if they don't tell us, but he won't say which leads anyone with common sense to believe there was communication going on all right. >> well, let's talk about those communications according to the justice department, they don't exist in a letter to the judiciary committee, the doj says that they looked and there was a 00 email communication with the manhattan da's office nor any communications between colangelo's and the da's office? the doj calls their effort to dispel these conspiracies as extraordinary, which seems now like the new normal joining me is brian stelter. he's the author of network of lies. he's also a special correspondent for vanity fair brian, is there any amount of fats? given right to congressman jim jordan that would change this web of conspiracies, web of lies. lies, and there are not, there are not. and it's because of what cast sudden see wrote 15 years ago for the harvard law review, he said, this self-serving the self-sealing quality of conspiracy theories is what makes them so dangerous for government directed attempts to puncture the conspiracy theory causes the people who believe it to just fold all of that does debunking into the theory itself self-sealing. that's the problem with these theories. >> i want to play when we had dr. phil on the show and this came up but just listened to this exchange you really think that party politics don't cross state lines federal versus state leinz, that there aren't meeting some people talk about this and make decisions about what's best for the party if you think that there aren't politics that goes into some of these decisions. i think that would be a naive position while luck, all i'm saying is that there's no evidence that that happened one way or another. he doesn't have any proof. he said it right there. i mean, the dpp sayyed that you saw me take there. i felt like i had to take another one now salted when i would walk is very difficult to rationalize when the people you're talking to acknowledge there's no there's no there there. >> and it's interesting to think about what is dr. phil doing? why is he motivated in that way? what is jim jordan thinking? i think they're trying to make sense of a complex world. conspiracy theories help simplify complexity, but they do so by taking shortcuts and real world and real life with real-world thinking, there are no shortcuts that's these guys are trying to take shortcuts, trying to use code words and buzzwords and propaganda in order to satisfy an audience by taking shortcuts. and there are no shortcuts in this real complex. >> we're just as a point on civics. the complexity is the point that is actually how the system is designed to work so that it doesn't get rigged up so that i do want to move on to what msnbc host rachel maddow has said she said in an email to cnn's reliable sources i am worried about the country broadly if we put someone in power who is openly vowing that he plans to build camps to hold millions of people into root out what he's described in sub-human terms as his enemy from within for that matter, what convinces you that these masses the camps, he's planning are only for migrants. so yes, i'm worried about me, but only as much as i am worried about all of us she she makes a point that this is not just about migrants if he's really to do it for them, why not you or me are the enemy of the people are joe schmo walking down the street. but this has been shorthanded as matt, i was afraid which is gonna be thrown in jail. >> and unfortunately, her comments were nuance and thoughtful to cnn. a lot of the dialogue, i think ever since has been anything but nuance and thoughtful. she's raising something important i think it's valuable to think ahead to what may happen in a second trump term. this is frankly speculative nonfiction because we use the words that trump and his allies have said, and we use them to talk about the future future jail, of course, is a extreme part of the spectrum. imprisonment is an extreme part. but think about irs audits. think about government pressure on media companies. think about other forms of government interference. there are a lot of pressure points and frankly, rachel maddow is not the only member of the media thinking about this. i've talked to the heads of news organizations, ceos, and media companies that are thinking through not in dramatic fashion, not because they're afraid of going to jail, that because they want to know what could trump due to use his power in the second term to punish the media. and it's also now a real question whether the voters actually take that information and believe in i also want to note that that a great interview with matt i was conducted by our own oliver darcy over at reliable sources, you're hold stomping grounds. >> bryan steck, that she's bringing it up because we need to think through these issues even though it can sound a little bit out there talking about it. yeah, absolutely. bryan stelter. thank you very much and polls have just closed in nevada where a key senate races now up for grabs. we're going to have the latest results coming up and also coming up next, our new audio from justice samuel alito, liberal activists lauren windsor shares new excerpts from her secret recordings live night 11:00 p.m. eastern right here on cnn devastating and sudden power of tsunamis happened in faraway lins, and it's easy to think. >> it can't 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republican at this particular point. for them to get control. but i want to also take a look at some other cute primaries let's go to the palmetto state, south carolina where trump made a bunch of endorsements as well. we'll go down to charleston. and what do we see here? nancy mace, who of course is kind of gone back and forth with trump, right? but he endorsed her this time around. of course, kevin mccarthy was on the other side of this particular battle, but nancy mace with a very wide margin, 57% of the vote, way more than needed to avoid a run-off. she is going to win that republican primary. there are much stronger performance. then she had four years ago, let's go up to greenville in the north west part of south carolina this is a very interesting race. were william timmons, the incumbent, has been sort of angered some freedom caucus folks, donald trump though endorsed him right now. we have not called this race to my knowledge, but blamed timmons does in fact have an advantage right now of a little bit less than ten percentage points. so this could be trumped two for two on the evening. and of course, trump's so far has not lost a single race in which he's endorsed into their the congressional sayyed of the group and notorious but one other interesting house race that i'm going to take you to. we're going to go away from the south and we're gonna go to the north. we're gonna go to ohio and we're gonna go to the youngstown area. and what do we see here? this is a very interesting race, right? we see the republican. he has won their 55% to about 45% for the democratic candidate. but what's the key thing that's going on? yeah, this is a very republican district. trump won this district by 28 points. and of course this margin right here is a little bit less than ten percentage points. this is another example of these special elections were democrats or app performing their 2020 baseline, i think democrats are hoping when actual people vote come the fall that you'll continue to see that type this is not a presidential battleground, but an important senate race. we will play out here in ohio, which will test exactly this neighborhood of ohio, youngstown, very enten, thank you very much i trump vp contender is doubling down on blaming democrats for creating social programs. he says are hurting black people. reverend william barber join me next to win one i want to be working in which and to be with my family welcome to the show i just love being out there with you guys the thing that matters to me claw read the door no streaming exclusively on max start your day with nature. me. >> the number one pharmacist recommended vitamin supplement brand what the biggest companies, the liver is an exceptional customer experience what makes it possible is unmatched connectivity and biji solution from t-mobile for business t-mobile connects 100,000 delta airlines employees, powers tractor supplies, stores nationwide with reliable by beam is this internet 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fireworks, separation, or any other anxieties, thunder shirt can help. thunder shirts find at retailers like pet smart and petco my next guest has spent his entire life trying to lift up the poor in this country. >> and he's co-authored a new book called white poverty, how exposing myths about race and class can reconstruct american democracy reverend william barber is a professor and founding director of the center for public theology and public policy at the yale divinity school. he is also a spokesperson for the poor people's campaign. reverend barber, thank you for joining us tonight. >> thank you so much for having me in this book. >> you focus on the depiction of poverty in this country. >> how we talk about poverty, how we show poverty, and you say that black people on the edge of poverty, they're called pour, while white people in the same low-income situation are called working class and getting rid of those stereotypes you argue would help people of all colors, all colors, and races. how would you say that? that would actually happen well, first of all, what we hope to do in this book, and i hope to do is to take to america. >> the way we measure poverty in government official power measurement is, is a lie, it's distortion, it does not count all of the poor. i want to see america deal with all of her pool. we're talking about 135 million people were talking about 41% of adults and over 50% of our children and the fact that the matter is they're 26 million for low wage black people 60 some of black population. but there's 30% of white poor people. and that's over 66 million when you, when you, when you frame it as being poor people or black, other-focused but working what you're doing is dismissing millions of poor and low weight white people. and it has been down through history, a form of mythology designed to keep black and white people from working together who really are allies and unified when it comes to the experience of poverty in this country. >> reverend barber, i want to ask you about something that i'm sure you've seen. this is representative byron donalds. he's been making some pretty stunning claims about black people during the time of jim crow and even just today, he doubled down on it when it comes to the social welfare programs and he says are hurting black people in particular they don't want to acknowledge that jim crow was, was, was an era ushered in by democrat politicians and a south who still wanted to segregate and subjugate black people in this country. >> and they also don't want to acknowledge that is lyndon johnson's great society also heavy democrat policy? that actually lead to fathers not being at home i wonder what your responses to that well, he's doubling down on ignorance. first of all, democrats of that day were not the democrats are today have today, and republicans of that de, well-linked republics, they're not, we're not kind of trump and other republicans today. so let's give it back, but more so what he's dismissing its the same mythology to suggest that the war on poverty was just about black people went. in fact, the war on poverty cut poverty in a major way. and most of the measures in terms of raw numbers help white people, particularly white people in the south the king said in 1965 to the greatest feat of racist oligarch or the puppets like this young man is the fear of a mass number of four and poor white folk coming together, reframing the voting electric in order to change the economic architecture of the country right now in this country, 295,000 poor low-wage people that every year, 800 a day that we cannot dismiss, that, we cannot say that is all right. the fact that we can have presidential election after presidential election debate, after debate, and not even talk about 135 million poor low-wage people who by the way, makeup 30% of the electorate and non battleground states and over 40% in so-called battleground state. poverty is an american crisis. i'm arguing in this book, let's talk about all the poor, how it is contrary to our fundamentals about democracy, like establishing justice and promoting the general welfare. let's talk about the 55 million people who make less than a living wage in this country. and let's start fixing policy. to abolish that is unnecessary scourge of poverty low way that does not have to exist in the wealthiest country in the world. >> yeah, you know, the idea of building a coalition based on class as opposed to race, has been around for a long time. i mean, going back to reverend jackson's rainbow coalition famously tried to do that, but one of the interesting things about this era is that you see this unique dynamic happening in the election where the white christian right has really we attach itself to donald trump, and that has been the frame by which they look at american politics. i want you to listen to what congresswoman marjorie taylor greene said just a couple of days ago in las vegas the democrats in the fake news media want to constantly talk about, oh, president trump as a convicted felon. what you want to know, something the man that i worship is also a convicted felon as a as a pastor, as someone who is a student of history, what do you make of this worship of the former president among the evangelical christian right? >> most mostly hey, the white christian right. >> well, first of all, i don't call it christian is religious nationalism. that's the first day because you wouldn't be applying white is the operative word. >> secondly, you can't talk about christianity and not be concerned about the poor. the first sermon that jesus preached, he said, you must preach good news to the poor and, jesus was crucified for standing with the pool. he was crucified for lifting those who are on the margin. that is not in any way comparison to what trump is doing, but more importantly the most of those folks that she's talking about are not the poor, are poor, and low wasteful. this is a moment in history that we say, we can no longer allow an american crisis to be marginalized or treated like an anomaly and that's what this book is about. it's about the stories of pot from appalachia and folks from the east kentucky that cannot be denied or dismiss. >> yeah, that often don't get told. that's fascinating what you're saying there again, the book is called white poverty. how exposing myths about race and class can reconstruct american democracy. reverend dr. william barber. thank you very much for joining us thank you and thank you for watching news night. laura coates live starts right now tonight a. >> new batch of secretly reported audio supreme court justice samuel alito, the activists behind the reporting's will share it with us in just minutes from now, plus, hunter biden convicted the new reporting about the reaction from inside the trump campaign and say it ain't. so why joey chest that's reign as one of the top dogs at coney island is coming to an end. good evening anja lithosphere now i'll go good evening. >> i'