that. this is just -- it's just kind of a baseline idea of how you run a democracy, is that you can fairly count the votes. and if that's what we're struggling with, we've got problems even bigger than the problems of voter suppression that i've been talking about for many years. >> so we were highlighting the embracers of the big lie who are running for state and local election positions. what do you believe happens if they do end up overseeing or being able to influence elections in 2022 and 2024? >> well, i mean, the worst case scenario is that they actually try to manipulate election results. but even if they don't, even if people are watching over their shoulders or they're trying to do the right thing, are people going to believe what they say? so if jody hice becomes the secretary of state of georgia, and he has claimed falsely that the last election was stolen. suppose trump runs again and he wins, he beats biden by a little bit according to what jody hice says. why would democrats believe him?