Them back at this table. Welcome. And i have to say, in interest of full disclosure, we just did Something Like this at Columbia University with 1000 students. There is Something Special about the curiosity and the interest of young people. Wanting to know how do they learn from you, wanting to know, if you were starting over, what would you do, wanting to know about values. You do a lot of this. Warren well, about the friendship, we met on july 5, 1991 and hit it off immediately. Bill was a little reluctant at first, but he got there. Charlie reluctant to come. Warren yeah, definitely. If it wasnt for his mother, we probably wouldnt know each other. And weve had a good time ever since. And weve cooperated on particularly on the giving pledge, but other things as well. And i have to say, everything about it has turned out well. Charlie he sits on your board. Warren he sits on the berkshire board. And we have a lot of fun talking about a lot of things. But the big thing that really came out of one of those discussions really was the giving pledge. Thats worked out so much better than i ever anticipated, charlie. I mean, i thought if we got 30, 40 people, you know charlie and how many . Warren i think we are at 156 or Something Like that. And the people and now weve gone beyond the borders of the United States, which i didnt feel would originally happen. And people are learning more our members about effective philanthropy. They are learning about what doesnt work, learning about how people handle within their families, wealthy families. Its just its worked out so much better than i would have guessed six years ago or seven years ago. Charlie both of you have made the point that, because of success and technology, there are a lot of people with a lot of money who are much younger. Bill yeah. Its a great thing. That these companies are doing so well. And as a group, i would say, its a particularly philanthropic group. I didnt give huge gifts until i was 45. Some of them in their 30s are already doing amazing things. Charlie why if the word is reluctant were you reluctant to give earlier than that . Bill i hadnt taken the time to understand where the huge payoffs were, and i was pretty maniacal about microsoft. And only in my late 30s with some encouragement from my wife, melinda, did i start to study it, talk with her about it. We knew we would do it by the time i was 60, but as we were doing that learning, we decided we should accelerate it, and we found a lot of ways that we thought we could have high impact. Charlie and the principle mission call was that all lives are equal. Bill thats right. And a lot of that outside the United States has gone to save lives and have kids grow up to be healthy. Charlie how did you decide that you would rather give your money to the Gates Foundation than create some foundation of your own and find people to run it and do whatever you wanted to do . Bill well, my first wife susie and i actually started a foundation over 50 years ago. And wed talked about it since we were in our 20s. And i always thought id be rich. She didnt think i would be. And i said to her, if i compound money at the rate i hope to compound money, there will be really large sums later on, and youre good at giving it away. Im good at making it. So, i will make it first and you give it away. And she thought that was sort of half a copout and half logical. [laughter] charlie and probably told you so. Warren absolutely. So, we did something, like i say, we started over 50 years ago. But i really thought that there would be large sums later on and that she was particularly good at empathizing with people, understanding their needs, putting the personal energy into it, and everything. She would be better at giving away money than i would be. And she died in 2004, as you know. So then i had to rethink what i was going to do. In 2006, i decided that, essentially, our five foundations, the bill and melinda Gates Foundation being the largest looking for people that had similar goals with philanthropy that what i had the idea that every life is of equal value is just fundamental to me. You can be lucky charlie and you knew bill would run it well. Warren of course. He had his own money up, which is a big deal. Far more than that, i mean, you have two much younger people, very bright, very hardworking. They work much harder at this than most people do in this country in their jobs. And they were on the same track i was on. Proven quantity. I mean, everything about it made sense. And its continued to make sense 10 years later. Charlie lets talk about melindas influence. You have said to me about susie, your late wife, i was a mess until i met susie. Warren i think thats understating it. [laughter] she changed my life. Theres no question about that. Charlie how did she change her life . Warren well, i was a very lopsided, not welladjusted person, who happened to be very good at one thing. And she put me together. I mean, and it wasnt overnight, either. She just had that little sprinkling can and finally she saw a few sprouts come up. Charlie was it a coming together of opposites or warren no, no. I wouldnt say that. We had very similar values. We were in sync. In a very big way. But she was way more mature than i was. She was 19 when we got married. I was 21. But i was about 12 emotionally. And she put me together. Like i say, it took time, but it changed my life. I mean, i would not have had anything like the life i have had charlie what did Charlie Munger add . Warren well, Charlie Munger, my partner of 57 or 58 years. Hes extremely wise. Hes a wonderful friend. Weve been partners. He is strongminded. I am strongminded. We disagree sometimes. We have never had an argument in that whole time and we never will. Charlie never had an argument . Warren never had an argument. Thats absolutely true. Charlie you must disagree on things . Warren absolutely, we disagree. Charlie but if you disagree, how do you decide . Warren what he says at the end when we disagree, he says, well, warren, you will end up agreeing with me because you are smart and im right. [laughter] warren you know, where do i attack that from . Charlie and youll figure out im right. Warren often, hes right, i have to say. Listen, i respect his opinion enormously whenever he gives it to me. I respect bills opinion. But its more fun doing things with partners. I mean, the most fun is obviously a marriage partner. Thats the most important relationship. But having a Business Partner if id done everything id done, it wouldnt have worked out this way. But lets say i got double the results, its been fun doing it with charlie. Charlie who says no to bill gates . Bill well, melinda, in this case. Warren ive seen it happen. [laughter] bill its great when somebody knows when you might move too fast or be overoptimistic. Or if a team comes in and im pointing out things we havent done and maybe they are not as motivated afterwards. They get me to correct that. I have matured a lot, and i give melinda immense credit. She still has work to do, but [laughter] but i think im getting there. Complementary strengths where you share the same goal is a great thing. I had that with paul allen in the early days of microsoft. I had that with Steve Ballmer as microsoft got going. Now, both in my family life and the foundation, its melinda. Charlie how much time do you spend at microsoft . Bill im there about 15 of the time. I get to work just on the r d part, brainstorming with people, thinking, ok, how are we going to take this Artificial Intelligence and make it understand, help you use your time better. Its a very exciting time in software. There are five companies that are in really strong position. Microsoft is leading in some really cool stuff. Charlie like what . [laughter] bill the way that a business takes information about customers, about communication with customers, looking at data that mission of really using data and ai and getting the productivity of all those workers up because they see more information microsoft is the leader in that. Its a wonderful niche. Its a multihundred billion dollar niche that they are strong in. And that they will be innovating along that line more in the next few years than ever in our history. Charlie you have a passion for Artificial Intelligence, you do. Bill yeah, its the ultimate dream when you start working on software is the kind of deep understanding and intelligence that humans have, so its been the holy grail of when can the computer learn to play games, when can the computer learn to read, when can it understand speech. Things like speech and vision have made such progress in recent years. I mean, you know, youve been tracking this and exposing your viewers to some of it. Because i cant overstate that even for people in the field its a pretty magical time. Charlie and its potential is to do what . Change everything . Bill well, in the first instance, to be the best assistant ever, to look at all your information, help you know in a few minutes between meetings what you should look at or when you are trying to plan a trip, organize things to be a much better assistant than it is today. And then eventually certain mechanical tasks, like warehouse work or driving, that it would take that over. But for intellectual work, it will just magnify the creativity and make your time more valuable. Charlie is a principal criteria for you understanding the business . Warren yeah. I have to understand the business, and there are lots of businesses i dont understand. Some of them may be almost ununderstandable and others are just outside my sphere of confidence. But you do have people who have that expertise . Warren there is a lot of overlap. Itportant thing is not is nice to have a huge circle of competence. As much more important where the limits are of it. You can do very well if you only understand 5 of the businesses in the country. And youll find plenty of opportunities. And you know that youve got the 5 in that circle. Charlie you made a huge purchase in 2016. Precision was bought in 2016. Warren yes. Charlie 37 billion. Warren including 33 billion in cash and the assumption of debt. Charlie is it harder and harder to find an acquisition candidate . Warren sure. Weve got to move the needle. If we make 1 billion, were talking a quarter of 1 . And thats after tax. Thats more than a billion and a half, pretax. So its hard to find things. I would do better percentage if i was working with a much smaller amount of capital. Charlie how do you find them . Warren its interesting. I get a call. Ill be sitting thinking. I mean, different things. In terms of buying private businesses, its because i get a call from a private seller. But occasionally i just decide to act. And we never do anything unfriendly, but in terms of buying whole businesses. Charlie how has knowing bill changed or influenced or enhanced your sense of the way the world works . Warren well, i learn from him. I like to learn from friends in enhanced your sense of the way the world works . I like to learn from all friends. And bill happens to be one of a particularly good source. Listen, thats the fun of having friends, charlie. I dont think i would it would be hard for me to be a friend with anyone that i dont learn something from. Theyd probably get bored with me, id get bored with them. Who is that guy talking about stocks . Charlie and bill, what do you learn from him . Bill an immense amount. He wrote an article for Fortune Magazine that i read before i met him, about that its not necessarily a good idea to leave large sums to your children. That was pretty fundamental. I remember reading that. I was convinced that that was right. It meant, wow, now you have to think of how to give it away. I also remember warren showing me his calendar and warren oh, love that. Bill i had every minute packed. I thought that was the only way you could do things. The fact that he is so careful about his you know, he has days charlie that theres nothing on. Warren absolutely. Thats the best of em. Charlie this is the week of april, of which there are only three entries. Bill you control your time. And sitting and thinking may be of much higher priority than a normal c. E. O. Who theres all this demand and you feel like you need to go and see all these people. Its not a proxy of your seriousness that you filled every minute in your schedule. Warren and people are gonna want your time. Thats the only thing you cant buy. I buy anything i want, basically. But i cant buy time. Charlie and so to have time is the most precious thing you can have . Warren it is. I better be careful with it. Theres no way i will be able to buy more time. Charlie and living in omaha makes that easier . Warren makes it a lot easier. For 50 whatever years now well, for four years, i spent five minutes going each way. Now, just imagine if that was a half hour each way. I would know the words to a lot more songs and thats about it. Charlie it adds up, doesnt it . Warren it really adds up. No. If youre doing an hour a day difference, coming and going, and, you know thats two and a half percent of the persons workweek, you know. That means 40 years, youre talking about a year. Charlie do you agree politically . Bill oh, on almost everything. A general sense that youve got to keep the economy turning up greater output and that you have to allocate it in a fair way. Yeah, that basic framework, we see very much the same. Charlie do both of you believe we can achieve a 4 growth rate . Warren thats pretty high. But charlie just like 2016, i think, the last it was like 1. 6 or something . Warren charlie, a 2 growth rate, if we have a little less than 1 population growth, which we probably will, in one generation, 25 years now people have kids later will add 19,000 per capita, family of four, 76,000, to real g. D. P. So there will be for a foul of four, on average, there would be 76,000 more stuff per family of four in one generation. I mean, we are going to have more the golden goose is going to keep laying more golden eggs. Weve got a wonderful system. Charlie but there are certain things that could get in the way of that. Warren 2 . Charlie youd do 2 . Warren and 2 will produce miracles. Charlie but 3 is probably possible, isnt it . Warren it could be. But thats that would be fabulous. And but 2 will produce. 19,000 per capita, thats greater than the existing than exists in a whole lot of countries. That will be added. The question is, what will we do with it . Charlie how do you see the future of china . Bill well, theyve done a great job on some things. Theyre not a democracy, so it hangs in the balance of how their political system will evolve. But in terms of raising incomes, getting rid of poverty, improving health, its an unbelievable miracle that theyve embraced, in their own special way, the market since really 1990. Theyve done very well. So theyre the second biggest economy in the world. Theyre serious about trade. Theyre serious about clean energy. They are super important. The most important relationship in the world is the u. S. China relationship. Charlie clearly, because of the two biggest economic powers in the world. Bill right. And theyre rising. And were strong and were going to stay very strong. Charlie yes. What could make us not stay strong . Bill theres a lot of strength that we built up over decades, the way we do research, our universities, the way that people take risks and thats why our Technology Companies are still so strong. Our Biotech Companies are still so strong. So the Education System is one that we need to go back and look at. You know, and that is one huge source of inequity, because if you get a great education, actually, the outcomes are pretty good. Charlie your experience has told you its much harder than even you imagine . Bill improving the u. S. Education system. Yes, the dropout rate has gone down a bit. So that is great. But the overall reading scores, math scores, and the inequality hasnt budged much in the last 10 years. One of the goals of our foundation is to, working with partners, change that. And so far, its proven to be one of the tougher ones. We still believe that its super important and its promising, if we look at individual schools. We see great things. So we still believe its achievable. Charlie all the talk about immigration, are we still looking at a situation where some of the best and brightest from overseas come here, get an education, and then go back to india or china or wherever rather than staying here . Bill well, a lot do stay. The most important import the u. S. Has ever had, by far, is human talent. Its been to our benefit that a lot of the hardestworking, best and brightest from almost every country in the world have wanted to come to the u. S. And so if you look at university departments, or, you know, doctors, engineers, people starting up companies, building jobs, its been a huge strength of ours. Weve we havent always made it super easy for that to work. But it has worked very, very well. So the number going back, its meaningful. But net, we are still a huge beneficiary of human talent. Charlie it used to be said, we ought to staple a green card to every diploma. Bill i believe that. Is that a bias, because im from the Tech Industry where we can create multiple jobs around the engineer . Instead of having to do that outside the United States. Yes. I believe that keeping talent in the country is a great thing. Charlie tell us the story, because you told me the story, and i didnt you think the second most important document in americas history, after the declaration of independence, or perhaps the u. S. Constitution or both, you know, is this letter. Warren the letter written by two jewish immigrants. And it doesnt sound like much. But in august of 1939, just before germany moved into poland, leo zolard, whose name is not wellknown, born in hungary, but he went to germany. And he worked in germany with albert einstein. And in 1933, i believe both of them left germany. And where do they come . They come to the United States. And they become United States citizens. And they cosign a letter to president roosevelt. It was a large thing to get einstein to sign it, because he carried more weight. That letter you can see on the internet, not even a full page, says germany is going to im really paraphrasing but germany is going to get a atom bomb and it may work and that we better get to work on one. And the Manhattan Project came out of that. And who knows what would have happened in world war ii . A, if hitler hadnt been so antisemitic basically. Great scientists and everything. And secondly, if those two hadnt chosen to emigrate to the United States. I mean, the United States had welcomed them. And they may have saved this country. They may have saved this country. Charlie so that germany did not get it and we did . Warren and all those v1s and v2s to england, its another warhead from the standpoint of the germans. And if we charted three years later who knows what would have happened . Remarkable men. And they were both immigrants. Charlie you sent me a note a month ago, and you basically said im not worried about the american economy. What i worry about is that somehow, some way well make a mistake in terms of the employment of Nuclear Weapons or some bad character will buy them or steal them, and warren weapons of mass destruction are out there. And the knowledge charlie maybe its a therapeutic warren its a tiny, tiny probability, any given day. But there are people who wish to say there are people who would like to kill millions of americans. And theres some psychotics, religious fanatics. I mean, the world has a certain number of them, and if they get in the wrong position and they have the knowledge and ability, there are people who would like to kill millions of americans. And the weapons are there to do it. Einstein said shortly after the launch of what was then called the atomic bomb, i know not with what weapons world war iii will be fought, but world war iv will be fought with sticks and stones. That probability exists. Thenumber one job of president of the United States is to the extent possible, protect us from weapons of mass destruction. They can exist with individuals but you dont worry too much about that. The intent. But with organizations and maybe even with a couple of nations, and its the only real cloud on america, over time. Well solve the economic problems. But thats number one. Charlie you agree . Bill i agree. And its not just Nuclear Weapons. Charlie no. Bill the bioterrorism piece is also quite daunting. Charlie whats the bioterrorism piece . Bill well, in an extreme case, somebody would reconstruct, say, a small pox virus and have that spread. And it would not only kill millions, it could potentially kill billions. Warren there was an op ed piece in the New York Times i checked with bill, because i dont understand this stuff well enough. He said, yeah, it makes sense, in terms of being feasible. It was basically about reconstituting small pox. There are people in the world, maybe organizations, probably are organizations, that would love the idea of creating a small pox epidemic. Charlie how do you prevent them from doing that . Bill well, you want to have surveillance to catch it as soon as you can. You want to have medical tools where you can create a vaccine and protect people. Science is working on the defense part of this at the same time its making the offense slightly easier. So if were vigilant, theres a lot of steps we can take to make the risk lower, just like minimizing access to materials, meaningfully reduces the chance for a nuclear weapon. Charlie theres some who argue that the next war will not be a nuclear war or it may perhaps be not even bioterrorism. It will be a cyber war. Bill thats a third area. And i you know, i personally think theres only the three. But thats not much comfort. Yes. A modern Society Depends on electricity and communications and information flow. And if you can, for a substantial period of time, disrupt that, then a lot of systems, including how a hospital organizes itself or how food gets moved around charlie financial institutions. Bill or, yeah, an airline decides what to do, or bank accounts. You know, what was that bank account supposed to be . And so a lot of experts in government and companies now are spending time thinking about, okay, how do you minimize that . How do you have duplicates, backups . A lot of sophistication going into that. Charlie can the United States risk a trade war with china or mexico . Warren its not a good idea. Trade benefits the problem of trade is that the benefits are diffused and invisible. You dont walk in and buy a pair of shoes and you just saved 12 because this was purchased someplace. 320 Million People are buying things cheaper than they would otherwise. But the harmful effects, taking somebody out of a job theyve had for 25 years when its too late to retrain them or anything , they are very specific and terrible. What you want to figure out is a way to keep the societal benefits and take care of the people that really they are the roadkill, basically, in this. And there will be roadkill. There is no sense kidding yourself. We start with the textile mill at berkshire. Half our workers only spoke portuguese. They worked in hot conditions, loud conditions, and they spend 20 or 25 years on looms. When textiles moved elsewhere, their economic lives were ruined. Thats going to happen. That is part of trade. And the benefits, you know, somebody buys whatever textiles we were turning out, handkerchiefs, anything, they may buy them a little cheaper. Weve got to keep the trade benefits for everybody, us and them, as a society. It penalizes certain people terribly. We have to take care of the people who are getting hurt, because we have the resources to do it. Charlie take care means . Warren it means that somehow you have to have retraining and all that when thats feasible, but it is infeasible when you only speak portuguese and you are in new bedford and you are 55 years old and you have spent your whole life on a loom. You have to make sure that person has an income that is commensurate. We can do it as a society. We dont want to let the individual case prejudiced against trade benefits for everybody. But we also dont want to say because everybody benefits, to with this guy. We can afford that, and we should do it. Thats how we get a good trade policy. Charlie did you appreciate, bill, the economic insecurity that was out there that donald trump was able to tap into politically . Bill no. Im not an expert on political sentiment, so i was no better at seeing those trends than other people. Charlie or with brexit . Bill again, i was surprised by the brexit vote. Charlie and the notion of the populist uprising taking place, in the sense of feeding off of that . Bill well, theres no doubt that younger people and urban people, in terms of their social mores, being seen to benefit relatively more from the new technology and things that are out there, there is somewhat of a divide there. The fact that that would lead to these political results is a bit of a wakeup call to say, ok, the economic and social issues, can we buy improving medicine, improving the Education System . Can we take what the negative views are there and engage and uplifted their views for the future. To me, the greatest surprise of all isnt how people voted, but, this general question when you say, will your children be better off than you . I believe their children will be better off, but the fact that they dont feel that way, that the improvements in health, the new products that will be available to them charlie and what Technology Enables them to do. Bill right. That is a concern. Because the people dont see the arrow of time pointing towards greater things. The idea of doubling down on more research, taking the best education, getting that spread around, it creates a sense of malaise, where you dont have the guidance. Some things are working. Lets do more of those things. Charlie can america lose, i mean if you look at the day, we have the best military, best economy, best university. Do we have the best talent and the best spirit of innovation and creativity . Could we lose that . Warren i dont think we will. I think the odds of losing that are very charlie this is what you call the special sauce. Warren weve got the special sauce, and weve still got the special sauce. If the rest of the world learns from that special sauce, then its not a zerosum game, that is terrific. It wont deprive us. Overall, in aggregate, our society will be far richer 10, 20, 30 years ago, if you just take in aggregate, our children will live better. The real question is will we continue to leave lots of people behind . A specialized market system will leave people behind. Is 10 s, if somebody below average, their opportunities in this world today have not improved at all from 30 or 40 years ago. The classic situation is, you take the forbes 400 in 1982. Number one guy was dan ludwig. He had 2 billion. Now it would be 30 or 40 times that. 30 or 40 times. And this more highly specialized economy, year after year, different from that agrarian economy of 200 years ago, its going to be more and more people at the very top winning big , big, big time, and it really wont do, absent certain types of programs, it wont do much for the person that doesnt have any special skills for the market. The average person or slightly below average person in terms of particularly market talents is not going to do very well unless we have policies to make sure that they participate in some way, and the guys at the top are going to keep doing better. Pardon me . It has to be government. The market system is this traffic cop. It directs resources, it directs brains, and it does a great job of it. It also directs all of the winnings. It will continuously favor more people at the top. Government came in with social security, and government redirects the winnings so it isnt totally the market system that delivers the winnings. I dont want to kill the market system in terms of producing. We want more and more stuff. But there will be more and more people falling further relatively behind, and thats not a good result. We can do better. Charlie im sure you saw this. There was a report i think last week that suggested it took eight billionaires, and basically said they have more wealth than the bottom half of the population in the world. Warren in this country, if you took the forbes 400, they have 93 billion dollars in 1982, and they have 2. 3 trillion now, 25 times as much as 35 years ago. Believe me, that does not strike somebody thats working 40 hours a week and trying to support a couple of kids on it and finding charlie and their income has remained the same warren they just arent participating. Charlie or they are threatened by Market Forces they cant comprehend. Warren the market system pays more and more, just think, say you are a middleweight boxer. In the 1930s, you were limited , you would not even get on the undercard at Madison Square garden. Then comes cabletelevision and payperview and millions of dollars. At the top, its terrific. If you are the 45th best middleweight in the country, it is pretty much the same it used to be in the 1930s, so the spread gets wider. Frank sinatra is a lot better off with television. Its magnified, but throughout. If youve got a Good Business idea, you can get it capitalized and become worth billions just on the idea. Its just tougher. Whereas, you go back to 1800, and if you are reasonably strong and willing to work hard, you were worth 90 as much on a farm as the very best guy. The differential it will keep , widening. The market system will push it in that direction. Government is there charlie what would you change if you could . Warren i would change the earned income tax credit big time. I am where i am not by myself at all. There are 320 million americans out there. There are a lot of crosses in normandie and everything else. It just, i benefit enormously by having come along when and where i came along, and some people did and some people didnt. Theres nothing wrong with a market system that rewards anybody who makes life better for millions of people. But you have to take care of the people who dont fit well into that particular niche. If this country paid off based on athletic ability, i could study eight hours a day and have all these im still going to get in the ring and, 10 seconds later, im on my back. The talents that get rewarded in the market system are important because they bring us more of the goods and services that the country wants and they make all kinds of improvements in how we live. Just incredible. But they leave people behind, and it wont be solved simple by simply by education. Charlie is it the responsibility of government to do something . Warren sure it is. Charlie go ahead. Bill but the government, you know also has to keep business , in shape that it has the incentive to do things right. Striking that balance, you know, should be at the heart of political dialogue. Warren you need more golden eggs. You have the ferrous island of the world. The two guys living on it are deciding exactly how they should divide up the palm tree, but it wont make any difference. Charlie so, beyond National Security issues, when you what do we have to be fearful of in the future . When we talk about it, some people believe that Artificial Intelligence offers certain kinds of risk. And youve spoken to that, that it could get out of control. You spoken to that and other people have. Whats around the corner that will both benefit us, Artificial Intelligence is clearly one of those things, too, but also offers a scary world, whether it is gene editing or that kind of you think of these things . Bill gene editing is a good one, where the promise of helping with disease, making plants that are more productive, gene editing is playing with the software of life. And yet deciding exactly how to used, you know, if you could make sure your child was thin or attractive or had certain other characteristics, is that an appropriate use of the technology . So, society charlie whos going to answer that question . Warren i will volunteer for the beta testing on that one. [laughter] charlie i am serious though who , will decide that . Is there a balance between freedom and security . Even in terms of getting inside of a phone in which a terrorist might have left future possible terrorist acts . Bill thats another one where, you know, making sure the government isnt completely blind to what goes on, Financial Transactions communications, because you trust the appropriate policy for when and how government ability to see information is used. Thats another one where there will be a big debate about, you know, some extremists might say government shouldnt really see anything. Others would say government should see everything. I think theres the potential for the best of both worlds approach. Charlie if in fact there is some appropriate procedure . Bill right, and we have had procedures. Some people feel that, even so, some things went on, so there are voices out there that would tend towards the, hey, lets not let government see things. Thats another political question. How much do we do gene editing . How much does government have this ability . We need politicians who really draw in great opinions. Running a healthcare care system and deciding when people are inventing superexpensive treatments, should health care demand so much of the economy that investing in education and social services and those things, that will be another huge problem that will be debated in the political arena. Charlie who has health care right . Whos got health care right in your judgment . Bill the European CountriesCharlie Scandinavian or . U. K. Spends about half as much as a percentage of gdp as the United States. Their system has weighting and things like that, but it is hard to express what a mammoth difference that is. Youre talking about almost 9 of gdp difference. That is one out of 11 people who go to work every day are the extra Health Care Activity here in the United States. So, im not saying we should system,e adopt their which is a singlepayer system. There are other really good systems that are not singlepayer. Germany, switzerland, france they do quite well. Its one of the few things, access to medical care is one of the few things that we actually do quite a bit worse than other rich countries. Theres some like education that a lot of rich countries dont do a very good job. Of uniquelysort bad. Charlie health care and education we dont do as well as other people, other industrialized nations . Bill most rich countries dont do that well on education. There are pieces like universities, where we are the best in the world by a lot. So that one, we are more middle of the pack in terms of our achievement. In health care access, you would have to say we look particularly bad. Charlie is there a ticking clock on Global Warming . Bill yes. Fortunately, its not overnight. The really big negative impacts are in the 30year to 70year timeframe, although it has already increased the chance of drought and storms, and we are seeing that. Charlie you can see a direct causation there . Bill yes. The heating effect is already there. Now overlaid with that is the pacific oscillation and normal weather things, so exactly how much of it is the heating signal versus those other things, you can get reasonable disagreement. But theres no doubt that thats there, that global average temperature is rising and that droughts, particularly in places like the middle east or parts of africa, were already seeing some of that. As you go out in time, it gets a lot worse. Changing the energy system, which has a long lead time of invention and deployment, i feel this is one of the most urgent problems. Charlie and is the urgent answer finding alternative sources of energy . Bill finding that magic three characteristics, reliable, clean, and lowcost. And there are many paths to get there. So, we have to encourage lots of innovators trying different , things. If you could take sun and turn it directly into gasoline, that would be an approach, because can be stored 24 hours a day and even moved around very well. There are approaches that involved taking nuclear to a new level of safety and lower level of cost, so that that would be a key part of the system. We need to fund a lot of innovative ideas, both governments and private sector. Charlie is your life today more intellectually challenging than when you were running microsoft . Bill thats hard to compare. Im on a steep learning curve in both cases. I love the fact that i get to meet great people. I get to see things work, see things that fail. For this stage of my life, im in a perfect position. I couldnt be happier. Charlie because you have an influence on microsoft . Not just being a stockholder. Bill i enjoy going over and sharing my thoughts. I get to keep uptodate a little bit. And we are using some of those Digital Enablement things, like to get cheap Financial Services to poor people all over the to look at medical data. Staying uptodate on the digital piece helps me do my foundation work. Charlie you have said something akin to this, the average person today lives better than John D Rockefeller did when he was alive. Bill that is true. Charlie lives better. Warren you live better. In terms of your entertainment choices, your travel choices you could not buy them. Thats in one lifetime. Its amazing. Charlie what brings you the most satisfaction . You could not buy them. Beyond family . Warren well, my greatest satisfaction is just staying in good health. When you are 86, you look at this a little differently. [laughter] charlie you are in good health . Warren oh, yeah. I enjoy every day. Charlie what is it that you enjoy . Warren i enjoy running berkshire, if you get right down to my psyche. Charlie thats what i want to know. Warren its been my painting for some 50 years. I get to paint what i want. I dont have to follow what wall street is telling me to do in that quarter or something. I own the brush and i own the canvas, and the canvas is unlimited. Its a pretty nice game. I dont have to associate with anyone who causes my stomach to churn. If i were in politics, i would have to smile at a lot of people i want to hit. Charlie you just dont talk to them . Billwarren ive got a good dea. Im hanging onto it. Charlie i often repeated the story. I spent too much of my life worrying about what people thought of me, then i only care about what i think of them then. Warren my business im lucky that way. Business is so much easier than philanthropy. Philanthropy may be a lot more important, but in business you are looking for easy choices, youre looking for people that you like to associate with. Youre to an extent, i can create the world around me. Charlie are you saying to me that if somebody walking your door and they want you to buy their company and you saw it as a golden warren a golden goose run by a farmer i like . I would say no. Charlie even though you knew warren charlie, marrying for money is probably a bad idea under any circumstances, but if you are already rich, it does not make any sense at all. [laughter] charlie but the satisfaction whats the metric of , satisfaction . Warren doing a decent job of running a place that gets harder to do because of the size over time, but its working with a whole lot of people on interesting its like Gene Mccarthy said about being a football coach. Its just difficult enough to make it interesting, but it really isnt that hard. [laughter] , well, he had a way of getting people a little irritated sometimes. Well, he had a way of getting people irritated sometimes. Charlie what brings you the greatest satisfaction . Bill i think learning things and making breakthroughs. After all the great family stuff, that is a lot of fun. Every once in a while, its something if something really makes sense and you can teach people about it share an , insight, i think thats also very gratifying. When i sit down with melinda to write the annual letter, ok, what can i share that is succinct that might be helpful to people . Between my learning and being able to share where i see, oh, this is really simpler than i thought it was, that gives me great satisfaction. Warren i would say there are two, charlie. Now at 86, ive seen a lot of people that have gotten older, and ive never seen anybody that is 70 or pagan age who felt good about their children that felt bad about their life. In all my experience charlie youve never seen anybody who felt good about their children that also felt bad about their life. Warren and ive seen plenty of people with lots of money where it hasnt worked out well in the family. Charlie who didnt feel good about their children. Warren or the children didnt feel good about them. Whichever way. They failed at the most important teaching job they had in a personal relationship. Sometimes it happens for extraneous reasons, but i really have never met anybody, regardless of their economic circumstances, who felt their life was a failure charlie if their children had become their children were doing well. Warren absolutely. They brought them into the world. Charlie and they felt like they had equipped them for the future. Thank you, very much. Bill gates and Warren Buffett for the hour. I should mention that on hbo on january 30, there is a film called becoming Warren Buffett, in which you will see a remarkable sense of the evolution of a human being and surrounded by family, but also the lessons and the experiences that 86 years have given him. See you next time. The Trump Administration demands, studying evidence of a Missile Launch and iran. Gold and the yen are on the rise. Yousef kuwait plans big changes as cheap oil prompts and economic overhaul. We take a look at vision 2035