Transcripts For SFGTV Government Access Programming 20171123

The San Francisco Public Utilities commission. So unfortunately the project manager is not present here this morning to speak to these two aspects or to the bond measures for the emergency Fire Fighting water system. I should tell you that is the new monicor of the system. It is done in part because of the historic system, sort of the city well for over 100 years at this point. But through further engineering oversight, the experience or facility pushing water through pipes determined there was kind of a different approach they would assume for delivering pumps for this system which is a more modern, i would call it interpretation. Having said that much, 2010 is substantially complete, and ill speak to that later in the financial summary. It says 28 in your power point, but its 26 of the systems are functional. Thats an enormous asset that was not present in the locations where theyre installed and provide the Fire Department with another sort of arrow in order to assist with fires. Pumping station number two for those familiar with it, or not, its in aquatic park, its one of two pump stations. That pump station contract has been awarded. It took a bit of time for that to find its way to award but finally has been awarded and then street valves within the context of pipe network expected to occur early next year with the funds drawn from 2010. 2014 for the efws continues to do a good deal of pipeline related projects and that really is the underpinning for the most part, currently installing robust pipe extensions and strengthening existing pipelines if they can better respond to the forces if you will of an earthquake. Ill leave it at that on that front. Certainly open to your questions. Police facilities, i guess thats me again. Lisa zoe is our project manager and taking a well deserved break with her family this particular holiday week. Police facility are the smallest of the bond components in dollars. No less important in significance to the Police Department certainly. We are doing projects that are of the type for nfs to establish the dure ability and reliability of the venues for the functions they serve. So, we have approximately nine district stations, theyre attending to in various ways. Most recently notice to proceed for the contractor on the northern richmond stations and we received bids for the park in angleside already. We have a low bid in that regard. And we have already i might as well fast forward. We have obtained our approval for farm Simulation Training facility. And were nearing completion of Police Academy project for those familiar with it at Diamond Heights in regard to the building upgrade system. So that is Police Facilities. And now the office of the chief medical examiner project. Briefly again, the project is completed. We received temporary certificate of occupancy on october 10th and the building is occupied by the staff of the medical examiners facility and open to business as of november 6th. When the close out phase in the project, we are finalizing training and addressing items. For the next project, traffic divisions, i would like to have the project manager speak. Good morning. If you are not familiar with this project, it is taking the csi and the Traffic Company out of the hall of justice and combining with the crime lab currently located at the shipyard at Hunters Point and putting them at a new facility at 1995 evans avenue, approximately a block from the public works yard. Currently owned by the city, the Real Estate Division manages the property and they have vacated as of november 10th. Notice to proceed was issued to a general contractor who will be overseeing Hazardous Materials over the next five months. At the same time recently, a notice to proceed was issued to the construction manager general contractor who its Clark Construction who will lead a cmgc team. The Team Component is design, build, core trade, subcontractors, will come on board starting november 27th to coincide with the executive archite architect to work in sync with them to address budget concerns on the project and get the project to budget and solicit bids from the subcontractors. That will start at the beginning of Preconstruction Services phase 1. As soon as the budget is achieved and the bids are taken, we will start a Preconstruction Services phase 2, where the core trade subcontractors will become the engineers of record and continue to work towards document preparation and permitting over the next year with hok architects as we move through towards construction. Thank you. Thank you michael. Just a note on contractor form of delivery, that is the favored Design Delivery model for most capital projects. What it does is introduce the builder up stream in a phase we call preconstruction where we can learn their expertise and insights that assist the engineer team so its more consistent in align. Thats a valuable participation partnering with the builder that we have generally found to be good in the delivery of the work. In this particular instance, we have introduced the participation of what michael regarded as the core trade subs. For laboratory projects, you know, the mechanical engineer, the plumbing engineer, and those trades are critical to the success as you can well imagine, Lab Buildings are very dense with those kinds of systems, having that participation early on, again, very invaluable to earn the insight we need with less conflict and compromise. So now, a brief status of budget and Financial Plan. I am missing my senior budget analyst as well this week. Its a good week for folks taking the time. 2010 as you can see from the far right column has been substantially spent. Were at 90 between them, fire stations 5 and 16 in the context and some of the work i described to you for awfs. Substantially spent down. We would expect this work to all be completed by next year. Great. Thank you. One more. Last but not least, the status of budget and Financial Plan for 2014. Obviously this is underway. Were two plus years removed from the first infusion of bond funds. Medical examiner is done effectively. You might ask why is that done and Everything Else seems to be a few Percentage Points behind . Well, the city at the time it was entertaining the project for the bond, decided it was of such importance, especially regarding reaccreditation that it should have funding prior to the bond to bring it to a several level of completeness, such as when the bond pass, we could pick it up and go to construction. That was a very wise approach for getting it done sooner. Clearly its evidenced by what we described to you and this percentage. The other projects as you can see for the most part are still in their preliminary phases, although i would tell you that Police Facilities among the bond components is really fast and otherwise out of the gate and completing some work very quickly. In sum total, i can tell you the ambition we have, the plan is to complete 2014 by the fall, late fall of 2019. We are preparing as we speak for 2020. We want to make sure as we present ourselves to the voters in that year, we can speak to all of the good work we accomplish and to the fact that we would have spent the monies entrusted to us at that point. We dont want to have a sum of money sitting there and having people wondering why are you asking for more money when youre sitting on a bunch. That is our plan across all of the bond components inclusive of the efws as well. With that, we will conclude the presentation and ask for any questions you may have. Please. My question is about the eser and the old water supply system, i live in the Outer Richmond district and richmond review, a local paper, has an article about a system that is planned now to replace the awss and among the things that it says is that the new system is going to rely on the Domestic Water system to provide Fire Fighting and questions integrity if it will stand up during an earthquake, especially an earthquake of some magnitude like the 1906 earthquake. Apparently one of the reasons pec doesnt want to do this, a legitimate reason, they have an estimated for water piping opposed to 19 million a mile for the strengthened piping with the joints that have mechanical connections and upgraded fire hydrants. Big money difference for the numbers in the paper. Hard to imagine the difference of five times. If you had a good crew, i would question that a little bit. That aside, is it just a matter of cost or are they confident in the event of a large earthquake, the firefighter system is capable of delivering the water needed for fighting the fires. Thats an excellent question. Im not an engineer, im an architect but what i can tell you, pc has been studying the modernzation if i can call it and the expansion of the emergency Fire Fighting water system for a number of years now. There is as a goal, a parity throughout the city for access to dedicated Fire Fighting water. There are different ways to accomplish it. Clearly the system that was designed subsequently to the 1996 earthquake was landmarked, still landmarked, its never really been attempted again in the modern age. I think there are two i wouldnt say comparable but two that reassemble them in a remote way. One in japan and one in vancouver. It is opinion that it is prohibitively expensive approach for providing for High Pressure Fire Fighting water. Was the pec has done, with the special engineering consultant, pursue an attack that would more quickly provide for that parity in access to Fire Fighting water sooner than not. If we spend the multiple commissioner you remarked upon, given the pacing of the bond program, at least historically, it would take us far longer to accomplish that parity than if we pursued a less expensive tack. As far as reliability and dure ability, i would prefer to have the pc speak to that. I do know that it would be in the new iteration if you will, benefits portable water system it would be more durable than what currently exists in the regular hydrant system. Theyre trying to approach it in a way that as i said renders the access to good Fire Fighting dedicated water much sooner than not. We know the big one as we call it, its not a question of when its not a question of if but a question of when. Any delays not doing as much as we can for as many in the city is probably not the most prudent approach. Ill stop there. Youre at a disadvantage, you dont have the project manager to answer questions as specific as this, maybe you could give me his contact information. Absolutely. I do believe that the puc will be responding to the article that was published at least to the neighborhood newspapers. Yeah, i think the sunset beacon had it, too. Theyre the same paper almost. Ill defer further discussion until well get back to you with more detail. I had a couple of quick questions. The fire station 35 its noted there was a notice to proceed for october 10th, did that happen . Yes. Thats been issued . Yes. Okay. The other question i had was the hazmat and demo for the Traffic Company Forensic Services was going to be a notice to proceed in october, did that happen . So that happened . Okay. Great. Thats fine. Thats the notice was issued october 20th. There were some delays with the Real Estate Division in vacating the property. That happened november 10th. Everything is proceeding. Great. And so in my role as the liaison for these two bond issues, in this last quarter i did have a tour of the new chief medical examiner building along with brenda, and so i want to thank charles and project manager magdalena for the tour. It was an impressive building and going to serve the citizens of San Francisco for many, many years to come. Its really state of the art, and i really appreciate the opportunity to get to see that. And the second thing i did also this last quarter was mentioned here, the awss pumping station number two, at the very foot of where the pier begins to take off, thats been awarded, the contract was awarded for about 18 million, its going to be a 26 million seismic upgrade in that facility and a lot of steel will be going into it. Theres also some historic preservation. But it was great to get a tour of that and see it before they started the construction and well be able to come back and take a look and see how its going. I appreciate david meijerson from the puc project manager on that. Im looking forward to that. I did have i did review the bid items and there were a couple of bid items where the bid that came in that was awarded, the contractor was very much lower than what our engineers estimates were. And that always concerns me because thats a potential for change order. I did talk to david about holding the contractors feet to the fire. Thank you commissioner. One of the things i would like to say, in fairness to the puc, theres been amazing work completed for the awss system, certainly within the context of the bond. 26 of 30 large 75100,000 gallons, we seismically restored the ashbury tank and jones street tank. We repaired and strengthened the twin peeks reservoir. These are all and pump station, the pump stations are being undertaken now. These are all critical components of the overall system. We can certainly have discussions about the pipe network. Thats very important. I dont think it can be lost in the conversation that weve done some awfully robust strengthening improvement of the system that was much needed. Much needed. I would like that to be understood as well as the current discourse about what the best pipeline approach should be. Okay. So in addition, when i did get the detailed Quarterly Report for the bond programs, for september, i noticed and it was noticed in the report that the Financial Data was as of june. There was no updated Financial Information to review. Could you comment on why the september Financial Data wasnt available and is it now available or whats going on there . Ive heard references to the new city system, i would like to know when i might be able to see september financial bid. Commissioner, the new Financial System adopted by the city currently does not enable us to collect data we require in order to present you the reliable and accurate even as of today. Thats correct. So there are a lot of cost centers in the new Financial System that the budget data didnt come over accurately. We have accountants working on the corrections. I honestly cant tell you what the schedule is for the different types of expenditures. Theyre making a lot of progress and we will ill find out with ben and check with funding accounting supervisors and update you i need to know myself. I assume it wouldnt run past another end of a quarter. I will find out and know what priority order the bond programs are going to be in to be accurate about it before you would be receiving more Quarterly Reports. All right. And last, it is important for liaisons to have meetings with the bond staff. My attempts to get a meeting scheduled this time were not successful and so maybe charles you could comment on that. I think i sent some emails and made some phone calls but didnt get replies and again, not having the Financial Data is but there were other things i had been asking for such as projects that had fallen off from the schedule or changes in the schedule but didnt get that either. I think we have to figure out a better way to communicate. Yes. Apologies again for failing to align with your schedule and ours. I think thats the first time we have missed the opportunity to sit with you and review matters at a finer grain of detail. Well endeavor to do much better the next time out. Certainly were available to you if you would like to get into anything that you were wanting to know before the meeting, we stand at the ready to respond to you. One more general follow up question, not related to you referred to core bid, th. Theyre now part of the official team. We will be working with our Architect Team as well as with the builder team to arrive at a price point if you will for the Representative Work of the core trade subs. Well then have a moment in time when well say now you have to put your name to that number. And it will be a number we will have reconciled and understood to be appropriate for the scope of work, especially in the context of the other work that needs to occur. Its a matter of agreeing to agree. Sorry. They will be given that opportunity to basically affirm the number, if by some curious set of circumstances they choose not to, then we will be duty bound to go out to others to secure a pricing more in line with our budget capacity for the particular elements of work. Okay. This sounds more like negotiator procurement than competitively bid its different from bringing out a set of documents and asking for it to be bid. In this market especially, i would say this is a more certain way to arrive at a more favorable disposition of the scope and funding cost. We are being buffeted by the market when we put out documents that we believe should be x and the cost comes in at 2 x. There was no opportunity for discussion regarding why 2x. It just is. Curiously when some projects have descoped because of the overage and gone back out, it comes in again higher. Theres not a lot of rhyme or reason, we firmly believe this is a more certain way to avoid that head scratching moment where we have to lower scope and quality and suffer another cost lump. I dont question you made the decision in good faith. Its just to me its atypical. Even with cmcg as i mentioned earlier, its a bit of a twist because of the unique characteristics of the lab facility and why we thought it was more spot on our ultimate number is our ultimate number. We have to work within it. We believe this is a way to stay in the number. Im sympathetic to what you say about labs. Loads of change orders, so good luck to you. Youre doing this in accordance with the California Public contracting code. Yes. And our city administer code as a charter city gives us latitude to do different. Thank you. So following what robert said, we dont have updated financials and you have outstanding requests for those. I notice on our sheet here, you guys are going out for the last bond of 142 million, which i see is across both bonds, probably 2010 and 2014, is that right . This is the one subsequent to the immediate bond. When is the immediate one and how much is that . I believe its parks and road improvement. Im just talking about this yeah, in late spring early summer. So we have concerns so in the second page of the report, the 2014 is issued 210. 251,000 and they have capacity to go to 400 million. So this brings them up to about 350 million. There still would be is there a reason you didnt do the last 50 million . Last 50 million under the 2014 bond authorization. Well, we were dictated by our perspective cash flow. We like well, were not allowed to sit on bond sale funds very long and so we try to really be very respectful and mindful of i think its three year spend down of bond sums. If we suggest were going beyond the three years, we dont pursue that sum of money, whatever the balance is. My suggestion is our liaisons are important to our process. We cant know everything and these are complex bonds. My suggestion to the chair, in the january 22nd meeting, we quickly revisit this to make sure robert has the updated financials and everything he feels comfortable with prior to the bond sale. From our perspective, all we can do is stop the bond sale. We need to make sure this body feels comfortable moving forward and i dont know if the procurement issues are relevant here, but that would be great to do between now and the 22nd of january. My other comments were, you said at one point it was wise approach to plan these things ahead of time im sorry what . You were talking about the one of your the chief medical examiner building and said we planned it ahead of time and were able to move faster. That is a wise approach, we agree. And were working with a lot of other bonds to hopefully take that approach. The other thing i wanted to say, it can be hard to read these with a lot of acronyms in them. If you could spell things out a bit, it would be helpful. Well improve on that next time. Any Public Comment . Seeing none. Item six. Thank you. Presentation from the Whistleblower Program and possible action by the committee in response to such presentation. While were waiting, our liaison is also our chair. Sorry. She has a liaison report im going to read for her. Probably not as well as she would herself. Good morning im chief audit executive on the audit side and with me, i have civil investigator steve flaherty, responsible for the Whistleblower Program. Todays presentation is an update on Whistleblower Program activities and initiatives through quarter one of fiscal year 2017 18. We last presented before you on may 2017 at which time we received fiscal year reviewed fiscal year 16 17 through quarter three. Since our last presentation we issued quarter four annual report and two fraud bulletins on our web site and we anticipate fiscal year 17 18 in december. In advance of the presentation, staff supported quarterly meetings with our liaison, brenda kwee mcnulty, our chair who will keep aprized of the activities. For the benefit of new members, our first four slides provide an overview of the Whistleblower Program, authority, jurisdiction and role in ensuring a well run government. It is derived from three sources, california government code 53087. 6, to maintain a Whistleblower Program to receive information regarding allegations of fraud, waste or abuse by local government employees. Campaign government code charter appendix f directs the controller as the auditor to administer a Whistleblower Program and charter appendix f1. 07, administer a Whistleblower Program. It investigates and resolves four broad categories or complaints as stated on our slides, misuse of city funds, improper activities by City Employees and officials and quality of Government Services and wasteful and inefficient government practices. The Whistleblower Program is tasked with investigating the matters per charter f and article 4. Per San Francisco campaign and government conduct code article 4 section 4. 107, referring the following complaint, those which another City Department is required by federal, state or local law to adjudicate, resolved through a grievance mechanism, those involving violations of criminal law, however, the controller may take action on the non criminal aspect of the matter. Often times when we receive complaints, sometimes there are criminal elements and at the same time, there are non criminal elements. Those subject to an existing investigation by the district attorney, City Attorney or Ethics Commission where the applicable, official or commissioned states in writing that an investigation by the controller would impede or delay their own investigation into the matter. Those which allege violations of governmental ethical laws. An organization hotline reporting system serves many purposes. Mainly a confidential place for employees to report concerns. It serves as a Central Source for complaint intake, ensures that systemic issues and risk trends are identified early and can be proactively addressed by city management. Good morning. Ill talk a bit about the complaint volume trends and it goes back approximately five fiscal years to fiscal year 2012 13. The annual number of complaints has increased every year since fiscal year 2012 13. 415 complaints last year. This increase in complaint trend looks likely to continue into 17 18 as we have received 121 complaints in quarter one which is a 17 increase in the number of complaints as received from the same quarter in the previous fiscal year. Well talk a bit about some of the trends within the complaint volume on the next slide. The controllers use different communication to make them aware of the program. An on demand outreach video we distributed to existing employees and requested the departments include in new employee orientation programs and use other communication, including Quarterly Reports and fraud bulletins. The majority of complaints come through the online web form, complaints received via 311 as well. The web form is an important tool, not everyone feels comfortable to speak to a person. With the web form, individuals can type information in and take time to think about and review what they have written before submitting it. Its available 24hours a day, 7 days a week. Complaints can file by email, in person, over the telephone, fax or written letter. The Whistleblower Program is readily accessible to complainants. We take anonymous reports servi seriously, there may never be the chance to ask clarifying questions, so we have tried to make the form as detailed as possible when they file the complaint. As follow up, the Whistleblower Program has anonymous reporters get in touch with assigned investigator. So the increase in complaints, we decided to analyze the volume to see if there are any trends in there. We date back to 14 15 when the complaint volume started to grow and reporting out on the disposition of complaints as they were closed. This analysis was conducted to determine the make up of the increased volume. So what we noticed, there was an increase number of complaints closed because another department had charter grand jurisdiction over the matter. This number increased from 6 to 10 and that looks likely to continue in fiscal year 17 18. The other trend we noticed, the Whistleblower Program was closing more complaints due to merging them with previously investigated issues or investigations in progress. This is another trend that looks likely to continue into this fiscal year. I think what accounts for that, a couple of things, one, the whipped Whistleblower Program, we have tried to make employees aware of our existence and freely available to employees. We cant control what comes in, they file a complaint on their own accord but we take everything in and process it appropriately. In the event that a complaint is under the jurisdiction of another City Department, we refer that over to the department before closing the matter on our end. As i mentioned, the number of complaints we received this fiscal year, 17 increase from the 103 complaints in the same period of the previous fiscal year. We have closed 112 complaints in quarter one. Its the goal of the Whistleblower Program to close 80 of the complaints within 90 days. Going into quarter two, we have 63 complaints open. We make the need for investigations in a timely manner, if not, the complainants could think their allegations are not taken seriously. Resolving timely improves employee trust. Through quarter one, the program closed 84 in 90 days or less. That said, not all complaints get closed within 90 days. There are several factors that can cause the investigation to go beyond the mark, the number of allegations in the deplancom, the number of witnesses and subjects to interview, multiple departments and need to gather evidence from multiple sources. It ended quarter one with 63 open complaint. The majority were open less than 90 days at the start of quarter two. Ill hand it back to tanya to talk about the initiatives in the fiscal year 2017 18. Once an allegation is reported as steve talked earlier about, it must be addressed and when necessary, fully investigated. Often times delays will damage our reputation or the programs reputation. So we take the time to critically assess each and every claim that comes in to determine which investigator on our team should investigate that particular complaint as well as do we have jurisdiction over the complaint and when we dont have jurisdiction over the complaint as we talked about earlier, we give it to the correct department. We have taken the time to ensure we have strong protocols in place within our organization. And part of those protocols not only in ensuring our own staff and how to properly investigate as well as document, we have now designed a program to do so with our own liaisons within the department. We have a pool of liaisons within our department and just here on november 14th we conducted of course, i think the class was about three to four hours and we had over 54 individuals in attendance at the training across our 50 plus departments. When we completed the training, we sent out slides, the class was interactive and the fact that we sent out a survey to receive feedback on the training to ensure that the training was fully understood, to determine where there were other areas that needed additional explanation as well as where we could improve overall in the training program. So we plan on building out on the topics in the spring of 2018. The other initiative that were continuing fiscal year 17 18 are the issuance of fraud bulletins, that make aware of red flags associated with costly work place or occupational frauds. Part of the effort is to help employees understand what is appropriate for referral to the program versus another City Department. In this past quarter, since to date to fiscal year to date in 2017 18 we have published two fraud bulletins on insider threats, in other words employees with trusted status in an organization using organizational systems and data for personal gain and grant misuse. The Whistleblower Program will issue two more bulletins before the end of the fiscal year. Were also continuing our popular fraud hotline webinar series, collaborating with hotline investigation best practices to jurisdictions throughout north america by hosting fraud hotline webinars. We started hosting them in 2013. To date this fiscal year, we have hosted one webinar, performed in arizona and they spoke of property and evidence management. The webinars are well regarded by peer jurisdictions and we typically have more than 60 attendees across more than 30 jurisdictions in north america. We recorded the webinars and made them available online. So more broadly on one of the initiatives we have been working on is with our professional association such as local government, auditors and the internal auditors we have been speaking about how we can have peer review for our Whistleblower Programs, not just ours but all the programs held at the local level. So i will be in a conference this coming the latter part of this month and that will be one of topics of discussion on the government side of the iia institute of internal auditors. This is something i have longed for and ben and i have talked about much, as well as steve. My hope is in the coming fiscal year we can move it forward a little more. Thank you. Will read brendas report. Below are my observations with the latest meeting. In line with previous reports although the volume of complaints has increased. This may be attributed to greater awareness of the Whistleblower Program among City Employees, through the pro active efforts, one page visibles, posters, details at new hire orientation programs. I am satisfied with the process of reporting complaints, it is accessible to City Employees and general public. The investigative process is well thought out and professionally executed until it is closed. The Program Staff are professional and responsive in questions from us. And scope and frequency the training designate Program Liaisons in every City Department. I welcome and applaud the Program Staff to host the first ever Program Training for designated liaisons of all City Departments with 54 people attending, thats fantastic, training them on the various aspects of the program toward more efficientive and collaborative effort in carrying out investigations. I have a couple of questions. It seems like, i might be wrong, before we would get a report showing complaints by department and over time so you can kind of see, did we decide not to do that report anymore or am i mistaken we didnt do it in the past . I believe the statistics youre referring to, we make them available, theyre contained in our quarterly and annual reports. Okay. Thats probably where i saw it. It lists the complaints investigated and closed by departments with more than 200 employees. And then theres another chart in the reports as well that show which complaints were referred to which departments for charter jurisdiction reasons. Was there a september Quarterly Report that had that . The quarter one reports for fiscal 17 18 are in progress and we anticipate it coming out in early december. Okay. And then im just curious, theres one complaint over 360 days, can you say anything about the nature of the complaint . Off the top of your head. Theres there are certain complicating factors with certain complaints. Some common reasons we see complaints age greater than others may have to do with employees leave of absence from the work place, we cant compel them to come back in. Some other factors overriding that, the number of allegations, the complexity of the allegations, some employees in the city are granted certain timelines for and then i guess, this is im just thinking off the top of my head, we have a budget for whistleblower complaints and local legislation, is there any metrics that sort of determines whether the program is effective or changing behavior or would somehow you can i mean, at the end of the day, maybe you would go back and change the legislation because its not really meeting the intended purpose. I dont know. Is there some way you folks measure your work in terms of effectiveness . Id say there are we constantly look to other jurisdictions and other professional societies or other body issuing reports on Whistleblower Programs to see a good measure of effectiveness. You know, ive heard in the past, i think at some of the meetings, requests for specific dollar amounts associated with investigations because the body of complaints are so diverse. Theres not always a specific dollar amount associated. I think we look at the volume of complaints received. Just to make sure were still letting people know were out there and i think complaint volume is an indicator of that. Employee awareness is one measure and its another measure we look at that we have a great deal of control about, the quality of complaints received and sometimes i think thats measured by corrective action or preventive action as result of a complaint coming in. I think theres 25,000 City Employees and 700,000 population and were getting about 400 at the most complaints. That seems low to me, given the size of the population, but well, remember, as it relates to the employees, the hotline is for internal City Employees. One of the things we do measure on, when we receive complaints, our goal is to have those complaints resolved within 6090 days. And generally weve had those metrics out there. So were looking at that. Again, we look after quality and the fact is, complaints are the hotline is specifically set up for City Employees. And of course we can receive we do receive complaints on quality of service and sometimes those come through the citizen base as well. Im not sure that if i receive a thousand complaints versus 400 complaints, does that mean that were not doing our job, were not effective and or is it that because there are deterrents in place, we have the Whistleblower Program, its very visible through the different mechanisms as the fraud bulletins, the different trainings that speaking to new employees so forth and on, also the reports that go out on the web site as well as the auditing sometimes very connected in different ways that may not be known to the public in general at large. Also create ways of deterrent. So the goal is really to have deterrent versus which drives down the volume, but at the same time, notice and understanding it is available to you, to our staff and those citizens who might report. Great answer. Thank you very much. Yeah, i think deterrent and as employees feel they have a place to go, its more of a perception thing. It wouldnt necessarily be a numbers thing. I want to say from a social media perspective, we have one or two videos out there as well. I think we do a really good job trying to promote that the program exists, that we the Controllers Office takes it seriously and were working with key government members of the city collectively to deal with challenges and issues that come forth through the program. Yeah. If i might, thank you very much for the presentation. I have always been following up on commissioner carlsons thoughts a little bit. I have always struggled with the definition of closed. We had volume Trend Analysis on page 7 and a column that says investigated and closed. Just being in the line of work im in, i have how do you measure what is closed when we have a program that provides a mechanism to make wrong doing and you receive that and do an investigation and get a complaint that City Employee xyz is sitting in front of their home for three hours from 11 00 in the morning until 2 00 in the afternoon and then they get back in their city vehicle and go somewhere somehow that falls in the closed i think, that falls into the closed category. When we think of metrics and assign a dollar value, how much did the city lose from employee xyz at home for three hours, theres a dollar volume you can assign to that. You can also measure a complaint that had merit found in wrong doing that was stopped. Thats another way to measure it. And thats never reflected in the analysis of the material i have ever seen. I think it was, we dont want to put in first of all, theyre confidential. We dont want to put