Vice chairman of the built in rhode institute as hes also southwest asia coordinator at the sure institute. The joints even still come in sweden. This is a thanks so much for coming on the show. Ive got the, the book that you wrote a few years ago, extending the new silk road to west asia and africa. But of course, while tomorrow it may be this, the, the, the forum im showing kind of escaped you, that nature nation propaganda media says its basically a failure easily is leaving china as partners are all in depth. China is a Property Market is collapsing, would you probably say, actually that the propaganda may be some dramatic of its success and will that be discussed tomorrow youre going to be there . Yes, so thank you. Ill shoot for, i mean, its my pleasure. Yeah, sure. I mean, all these predictions that says when i think you have 2000 china, it has collapsed many times. According to these, a dues, say theres uh, you know, producing chinas fall in collab. Zip has been going on for 20 years, is not going to happen. China has a completely different structure, they can always start to another about chinas own growth and development is dependent on the growth and their loved ones in the world, which is an interesting actually factor we can discuss about this. A dozen roll floor on tomorrow is a very, very important, a combination of a series of, of some is involving mostly this global styles. Remember, we had the, the russia, africa test on the china africa assignment. This year we had the briggs summits, which now the board grades, the new members, a very, very scientific thing to develop. And also the end of last year we had the china error summit and china adult Corporation Council summit. Now, all these things involved trying to, and all these things in the quote, the bills are Road Initiative and it is incorporated in all these uh, developments knowledge of wanting to remind people that theyve built and bRoad Initiative is. And i think its going to be, this was great, this the Biggest Development you should see, it is cold and also the depths that the we have seen the so far. I think the most important issues which will be presented, i guess is 1st of all is that that we have now the tabs. And of course we have been for be a demonstration of that. Shed missed something built on the Road Initiative the last 10 years. All the projects which were built all these developments, but also the resilience of theyve built a road in the face of all these. A doomsday relations that despite all the vilification and the negative media attacks, political that tax on the bills are road, its increasing and membership. Now we have 152. 00 nation joining that. And so if the International Organizations and so the nations were outside the bill to the road, i actually today, i, minority. Its important to, i think, to note that the males enrolled it, it should do pass is probably a new model for trash Boundary International cooperation based on the comic cooperation Economic Development without affecting without interfering in the sovereignty of nations on the political, social, and cultural structures. Of nations, which makes it unique, that these nations bank we on certain more universally accepted principles that are related to the Economic Development that grows eliminating poverty and aligning the policies, coordinating the policies to reach the goal, the sustainable level, often both. Okay, but the thing is that the thing is that uh, i mean obviously nature propaganda major is not going to mention the band dont get caught a High Speed Railway as they discuss the fact the inventors of Railway Britain gone even have a high speed railing from london to the, to the north of england. But what do you say about the fact that the washington i may have had to bailouts for lanka, which i was trying to 41000000000. 00. And the fact that the total bailout loans from china between 20082021 or 240000000000. 00. Look at the engine team. A look at the buck is fun gone. Those ambia are in default of the build mode is not going uh the way that the Chinese Communist party predicted it in quite a few countries as a fail. I think there is mixing of a apples and oranges here. We have a Global Financial crisis and the most effective nations are the United States and europe to britain. As everybody comes, notice, we have an International Financial and Banking System which is not based on Economic Development. Then growth is based on financial speculation, gambling which has ruined many nations. And now we have had a series of crises including the crating prices. That will be 19 prices, which but many, many nations, into tosh. They can always have financial situations. This has nothing to do with china. It has nothing to do with the bit with the initiative these nations, which everybodys talking about, the house we bought got back to styles. Im the many nations in africa. They have been in these difficulties long time ago. And the real death trap was actually set up before china and the bells arose, came bumped to the sea of these nations. How seemed their economies being displaced by the smaller colonial powers. There was civil wars, they were terrorism, there was the colby 90. Nobody. They say passion for these things, we did the thorough investigation and all the cases of stories are and go back in style and zombies and the causes of their prices have nothing to do with china. Chinas portions above the depth of these nations. And so you lock up and that is only 10 percent. On top of that, the 10 percent of china is, is, is uh, as low as 3. 00. That is the finance in prospect of progress will make it sweet 9th, that come out of it. Surprises while the 90 percent. That is encouraged by some lines of belonging to west as private and multi last little financial interest is the dogs has all contributed to any growth of this reacted dom as it was the aspect. But that debt still exists. And this is the point that the facts that uh the mill road may be succeeding in so many other countries away from all that propaganda will delegates tomorrow understand that it is in the interest as uh, the hawks in washington. See it to destroy all the progress created by the built in Road Initiative like weve seen with the United States. Its got you raj and tina. Weve seen the with him run con, claims in progress on happened to him and weve seen, nor the stream pipelines being destroyed by the, by the administration. So well delegates fully understand that this conference in badging, the, the United States instead of the ukraine, china, thats what your grain is about. Theyll destroy the infrastructure that everyone will be excitedly discussing tomorrow. Well, i think the reason these patients have come to badging to attend this are up tomorrow because they believe that this is an important aspect of their future Economic Development. And which can also lead to peace if it actually, i dont believe that is indeed for us of the United States and europe. They used to destroy the trying not to destroy the bells our own efforts in their interest to promote. We say, im sorry to interrupt, were seeing the European Union arguably act against since economic interest repeatedly as it followed the United States from one more into another. And all china ever does is a issue harsher and harsher words against you as foreign policy. We see that from the statements made by a Chinese Government spokesman, but, you know, just looking for the United States doing in the philippines. This. Yeah, it is. The Chinese Communist party even understand many us basis around it left his own surround all the Infrastructure Projects around the world. Yes, we have a very dangerous at the security and it is a situation in the world which is the because of the aggressive policies of nato and the United States. And the difference in philosophy, this is where this whole issue of the bill is around its. Its a new philosophy of governance among nations where it is that the prosperity of china is dependent on the prosperity of other nations, including the United States. Now this is going to be a big, huge up table. All the governors philosophy, we have have the 0 sum game that you have political manipulations is not the interest of the United States that china and about that route sales. This is something which surprises shots. The Chinese People why youre in the United States are acting against their own interest. Well, of course they dont realize that they may have certain leads into the nice stays. Why not really serving the people of the, the, all of the nations. But thats certainly special economic and financial security. Lets be industrial interest. This is something very important for the chinese brand. Is that because every time they, they see what the United States is doing, they see why this is counter productive. Why are they doing this . So we have a shift in the global situation. At the end of the day. We ology will be the judge northwest, but the dishes was the trap of just talked about because they cut the realities of the kind of like social and financial collapse and cultural collapse in the west. And if you are, for example, and in the United States, this will be determining factors. And the success of china is all as its neighbors. The aspect on space and video, its, uh, click on all these boxes. This will improve the, you know, at the end of the day, which way the weather has to go. Look, we have had this fantastic, the brakes. We had the shy fault ration organization expanding more and more nations bunker joined that there was a completely new power Diamond International relations, which those nations are, you know, hoping to join because they have them lost all space and pull in these. So uni paulo world, which the United States and nasal and the you have to be. And then we dont know when the United States and do you will wake up. So thats we allergy, but the rest of the world, the majority of the global majority people call the global south is moving already input to different direction. The only thing which will stop is a cataclysmic event. Such a will more, which will be followed by nuclear weapons. Otherwise, this new Global Economic warner with china is leading russia. Is there the break stations are there . The ill see ive got to be asia, is there a now there are countries, i wont be that direction. Advocates moving direction. Many companies in south america moving that direction. Nothing can stop that unless we have a global war. And well, ill get to the issue well, ill get to the issue or, but to me you mentioned cultural collapse, you, c, l, e to control of media and culture in nato nations is so strong that to many ordinary working people do perceive china as an enemy possibly because of the propaganda or in the daily news. And of course, with the aid of hollywood, is just trying to understand how hed not only subverts any message that you might have given just now in the developing world where america is still seeing the United States, as youll seen as a, as progressive in some way rather than regressive it develop it, disabilities the developing world, let alone maybe even in china, let alone the working classes of nato countries. So actually that quite unified in nature, countries on the United States, behind the model of as you see it, self destruction. Yeah thats, thats what units. And he said terrible, but i think there will be shifts even in, in europe. And in my space us people realize that this is not, this is suicidal, but germany is doing is suicide. The German Industries many german does so exactly in the country that moving to asia and moving to the United States, moving to the gulf countries because they find out that their petitions are the killer. And therefore they have to find somewhere else the to survive. Now how, how much pressure from the population will come close to close . The political change in the United States and in europe is not clear. The elections in the United States will be very important. But i think the majority of people around the world have realized that the United States and you are especially with the quote with crisis which they all the weaknesses of the, their, their power was expelled. And now with the brain the war even more. They suppose they are the enable that they these mighty powers. Im not really able to do anything to, for example, defeats russia and the rest of the world. Now realizing that this is a strong man in the field of which is terry, but it has very little substance. And you know, its a says that the state of affairs been but nations i look present happening in west africa as a and this guy, ill stop you. The more from the vice chairman of the belt and rodents, huge in sweden and southwest asia coordinator, the Center Institute for this, right . The of the same rom, just dont you have to see the house to come after and engagement because the trail when so many find themselves will support. We choose to look for common ground, the the, the welcome back to going on the ground. Im still here with the vice chairman of the building road institution, sweden who signed his car, his hand. You were about to talk about west africa when theres been a lot of developments, obviously this year against a french imperialism. But youre also talking about the threats of global war that could stop the dreams of being jokes about it. Tomorrows belton road to form for International Cooperation can, can the Shanghai Cooperation Organization add to built in road and replace um, well, can it be nato, basically, in the context of what youre saying about war . Yeah, i dont think the chinese and asian nations are the shy go visit. They see themselves as a arrival which have to destroy the west. They dont want to have that china. It has been, but yeah, i didnt mean about destroying the assignments. Protecting the mail to hurt initiative. As i said, as i said before, we know how they destroy infrastructure from the north stream pipelines supplying natural gas and russia to germany. Every railway line, every road, every built that is created with Chinese Investment in partnership with developing well the government is shortly on the threats as it is on the thread. But nations are trying to protect themselves looking practiced on, for example, the, the chinese engineers have been active building the class, the roads, the boards app is under attack many, many times, many involved in work show by terrorist groups separate. This groups werent worthy, you know, for all the interest, but they never gave up. Because this is a, a, a pretty substantial question for both pakistan and china. So its very interesting because the chinese side is proving that really the Security Council on Economic Development all the other way around. If you dont have, you cannot develop it. If you dont have prosperity in a society, its not be secure way, but dont you think every time china, i mean i was in damascus, interviewing brazil thats. Id be able to watch our interview and rumble. China was just making efforts to invest in reconstruction there, and the United States is allies were really bombarding, is, have, as you said, impact your son. Can they not, in spite of proxies as they have in the past, the terrorists, as theyre even cooled in the major nations with the, the, i dont get them to the thing. So aging. Yeah. Yeah. Things are changing and looking, for example, at the symbolic gesture, when the chinese president stance is own president ial airplane, to transport. President chavez, other fish, 1st lady to be to china for the summit. Basically, this is a shift in this or that you cannot swenson and friends of the security of our friends. Now these are not the allies, the chinese dont like this have allies. They like to have friends. But china is, is drawing a line there with it, but they clearly threatening the security regardless of that visit to magic. Because joe biden occupies a 3rd of the country there, and it has all the energy in northern syria. Thats true. The reason that they are capable of doing that is because the turkey, which is an angel member, but also have not decided which way he wants to go. And iraq is an unstable country. So when these things run these nations for starting to think about their own future, that will shift and the United States will not have people to rely on to continue this policy. Look, i really dont think they have people to rely on in the leads of developing well nations who may school their own children at western Business Schools and the want their children to be educated in the nature of nations. They, they dont have enough in the lead. So all of these developing countries during building Road Initiatives that actually favor the new liberal model over the china is model. Yeah. Well those, those leaders, for example, and the children are being bobus thrown in west africa right now. Those were loyal to france and broke the of the United States. The vehicle was wrong. Theres a new generation there, which is, you know, taking over low down more africans getting education in china today than africa is getting education and brittany and the United States. China has surpassed those 2 countries already in 2018. All the fries is still the trying to, for historical reasons. So nations, people will send their children there and the children, actually, the china will probably to russia and other places where they will get their education in the future. Because they realize that there was a homeless. The only thing in the west is doing is taking advantage of them. So there is a reality we have to talk about the economic realities of nations. This is, was really the term is everything at the end. Saudi arabia of adult countries have been loyal friends and allies of the west, but look at the ship which has taken place because those nations can no longer live with the fact that they have dependent every morning they have to look at the oil price on the tv screen, if they go to survive this month, so not the way with 3. 00 major loyal shocks in the, in this decade, in 2014, 2016 at 2020 with saudi arrived. Yet the largest boiling spot was on the brink of going bankrupt. And do you know what that means socially and secure the terms . So saudi arabia have decided that they no longer going to go with the old system where they can sell oil and buy luxury stuff as to that. So they want to become an industrial nation. And who is ready there with the engineering, scientific, technological capability to help them become an industrial nation. It is china. And thats why it did the last years summit between china as under theres 13 major cooperation agreements and very, very important sophisticated did listen to the speech given by president. She didnt think in his stomach with the gulf cooperation, causal leaders. There was 5 points which i would like to drill peoples very great. Right now, i will not mention them all of the very quickly. Besides, people focus too much on the china wants to buy oil in the local currency and you are from the gulf countries from knowledge of 2060, this is very important, but further seeds are being talked about industrialization, 5, g, 6, g to communication systems, proud Technology Space cooperation, technology in the space. Training astronaut, Nuclear Power development, a sort of sofa. So is a waste because its presented, which of course, given the nature of ation, media here is uh, you know, we even showing the us bullet issues talking about the war and ukraine really being about the future war on china. Its singleton easily talking about the fact that joe, by boons, india middle east, your, because a little bit closer door. Imac is going to somehow, you know, make the belt road in nature to have some small footnote in history. Is it actually true . But it ends in perez board, which is controlled by the Chinese Government just described quickly what this you have bite and the initiative which is being celebrated in nature propaganda media like the bbc and cnn actually is one of those, those bbc, us. Yeah, they dont want to think about economics unless does President Biden and the, the most that up on the line, these barriers, they dont barely go about economies and go to the geography. Now kind of does not control the photo pre riots. The china is operating the photo guy has been corporation with the government trying to is not going to imperialist country. They told me to do as board which was for sale. They use the you force grease to sell the autopay is to pay his steps. Try that, came in and developed it. Now china is also building the railways. Everybodys talking about this in the middle east. The europe a forwarding or trying to is building the re ways. Do these been your best f o u i did that didnt make it into videos and fall. I didnt make it into the news. Obviously the china was a central part of it, nor did it make any and using the bindings, i have to blame change and errors. United everywhere as china is involved in building that it has raised. A network in china is involved in the saudi land bridge. Projects, its china, build 2 major ports and these are out and 55 and i flew as the one i sold was. Okay, but what about buying and blinking is build back better world and partnership for Global Infrastructure investment is youre all these just pos, schemes by nature, nations have helped by that propaganda media to try and attempt to, to make out basically compete with building road. Absolutely. They, you look if you want to compete with the bills that wrote, you should build better a faster way in which is, you should build better and more efficient power plants. You should build better and more efficient ports on the airports. United states and youre unable to do these things anymore. They cannot finance them, they cannot bill, but they dont have the engineering as killed capacity with trying that has to be these things. So this is not the way its gonna be. These are just propaganda. They, this is the 7th or 8th initiative, goss, its not the 1st well and all these things are like, all the air has no substance. You know, what are well actually on the, on the other issue of not no substance. And they give it up on the, on this says in gen genocide story that we covered dont going underground as a, as a lie. And they give it up on talking about this fake genocide in nature. Now its fading away. I call it the silliest genocide in district because for the 1st time the victims of genocide are growing and number and their Living Conditions are improving. This is a very silly kind of genocide. And therefore, you know that the, even the company as a way of trying to sleep shinji i, they have to go back and work it and try and i wasnt trying to resolve it. Local. The big guys in the find tech at the banking is, are, these are big american, a foundation, european bass and company. Everybody knows it, that they want to prosper. They want to have their business, they have to work with china. Now these, the whole situation and ukraine has, but the big problem for working was russia, but the door is still open to china. And the, one of the interesting things that i should mention here is that the, you know, electricians doc live in reality when the ukraine war broke out. Uh, many things, parents and media and the way i said, oh, mr. Bolting till theres so pro, which they mean that theres this important right away from china, was prizes through central asia, because that style worship bellows into poland. This has become one of the most important transform andres for the industrials on both ends in china and new, especially the old, the industrial and mesa office, the gate and industrial. Now everybody was says, oh, when did they do the warning ukraine started. They said this is finished, has got, i was almost the only one i went then and it started investigating the whole thing. I said, no, no, no, its not spanish. This is gonna actually continue and grow because youre a cannot survive without this. And therefore, they didnt dockwood sanctions on the russian and bennett, who was really and con companies. So these are the trains continue to go from china to you from europe to china. There was a short disruption at the beginning of the war to do 3 months, but it is continued that increase as i predicted. Now listen to this that you are right. Thats 90. Percent of the rare metals used in europe come from china. How do they come in a quick way . They come through this way way was going to pass as through the nose of the russians. And taylor was in to paula. Many of the rear metals i use in the on industrial youre including died tags. The munition use in the war in ukraine against russia. All these ro, materials they passed from china, russia, 2 bedrooms and 2, your and they continued to do that until today. Thats reality. Reality is not determined by the dishes. You are being industrious, especially in germany. Well, most of by, without working with china and without keeping the door open through bedrooms and brush it. This is my big argument that we have a physical and the comics. Reality and full of dishes are not, itd be out if you want to talk about the economics we already talked to business man. Talk to industrial is how they see that the out of things are moving between the east and west out inter dependence kind of the entire the, the Global Supply chains are. This is what the chinese that frankly gets people down to is that you cannot the couple you cannot disentangled yourself. Otherwise you are, you are committed, suicide is a nice guy. Thank you. And thats it for the show. Remember we bring you brand new episodes every side day monday, and until then, keep in touch via all social media, if its not sensitive in your country and had to a channel going undergoing tv on mobile dot com to watch new and old episodes of going underground so you see the the the, the, me as the death sold in gods us the buses 2700. Youre in, says the region is on the verge of the best. Even those residents taking shelter guns process gave utah for these big kill innocent people. In 5 days, we have witnessed palms on houses, roofs, and pay offices in the streets about the sauces. The border between garza and egypt remains close to us as well as preventing live saving aid from entering the region civilians unable to escape from the escalating complaints to express their outrage