Blah, blah, blah, blah. Dont forget, his son hunter, just got a sweetheart deal. A plea, bargain that a judge. Well, this is a mess. This is all a, just a total mess and what theyre doing to donald trump is not only are they sending a message to him, you will never be president again. Theyre sending a message to anybody in my view from outside the washington swamp, as its called, you better not run for president for this will happen to you as well. And i think it stinks. And thats all for now. But for the latest breaking news, head over to r t dot com. Thanks for joining us and dont go far. My colleague, nicky aaron, will be taking over at the top of the hour. The european nations ultimately experienced that transformation with, at the exception that is, was kind of defeats us by the hard realities. Right . Or at least confronted was that mean to get a very significant way spend, you know, the space up more or less the more or less the only exception to the general tendency. That of course, has to deal with the fact that the jet radical situation of the United States is funding it. Is that open iowa, that is the size of the confidence in the the hello and welcome to cross talk. Were all things are considered on peter level. The architects of natos proxy war and russia have big plans for the key every team. As the cranes counter offensive fails, the countrys postwar realities are being planned in the west. Alas, these plans will fail to the crossing ukraines fades. Im joined by my guess. Erin, good in philadelphia. Hes a political scientist historian, as well as author of american exception empire and the deep state in raleigh. We have re, mcgovern, he is a former c. I a analyst and elizabeth we cross and natalie morris. She is post of the redacted podcast white cross top roles and the fact that means you can jump any time you want. And i always appreciate re, let me go. You 1st. Um, we all know its, its safe then to reach the media and then in the west that the counter offensive is not going well. We also know from the wall street journal, again regime media, but it was never thought to be, it would work out very well any way. Um and, but they let it go forward. But at the same time, i hear the state department and pentagon officials talking about post war realities. I mean, i dont know how we get from a trailed calendar offensive to talking about post war realities. Can you connect that dot for me . Go ahead. Right . Yes, peter, are there finally trying to act like the best versions in the gospel of matthew . You remember those verges . Some of them bored, extra oil and extra shells for their 155 millimeter howitzers. They got to go to the wedding. The ones that ran out of the mission vision. In other words, theres been no real planning for it happen here. Your grands are out of admission. And yet the president United States, and heres the lieutenants, keep saying russia has already lost the war. Yeah. Bottom line here, bottom line, the president is delusional. Ringback he would speak in, in maine last friday and he said, you know, who could save the world, who couldnt bring the person who couldnt bring the whole world together. Is not may, but the president of the United States can only he can. And then a cited Madeleine Albright for god sakes, a, you know, we are exceptional, were indispensable. And you know, the aaron is written the whole book about how accept true and where you are. Its go to all folds already flat. Meanwhile, i have to complement i missed approaching. Im being very cautious or very gradual. And youre with a delusion or impression that one doesnt want to put his back against the wall earlier than one pastor. Yep. Natalie and elizabeth. Well, ray is already mentioned, so im going to pull it forward. We had a anthony blink and the secretary of state, and the president , the United States saying that russias losing the or has lost. So natalie, did they already implying that ukraine is one . I mean, it is kind of a binary when lose. Go ahead. Now. Yes. And we saw that when cnn talked to President Trump recently a few months ago, and they said, who do you want to win or lose as if it is a binary . As if theres just no nuance in it. He said, i want the dying to stop indicating that there is sort of an option for peace. If we all understood the nuance, the problem is that the west sort of feels like all of ukraine is being just bombed to oblivion by russia. You know, to their chagrin that they have no way to stop this. They dont understand the offerings of peace talks. They dont understand that the war has been concentrated in the don boss for almost 10 years now. This lack of nuance enables them to continue to sell the war and enables them to sell the idea that if we dont stop hooting, hes just going to keep on going all the way to where i live been, which is the western most part of europe. That, you know, all of a sudden this will be russia if we dont stop this regime of putin. And this lack of nuance is lack of studying this inability to rewind the tape is what allows them to sell the war to americans. So that they, it just, you know, they accept it, they accept the same price as they expense what the president says. They sell it to a respect to the realities of the ground. Thats what were trying to. Absolutely, but i think whats important is just today or just recently on military dot com, there was an open call for a draft inside the United States. And i think that thats important because the previous floors in the middle east really didnt cost the middle or upload classes very much. It was farmed from the poorest among the amongst us. So we didnt have to feel it. If you were an educated upper middle class person, its just like, oh, thats too bad, right . But if there is an opportunity for a draft, if it cost actual american lives, we might feel quite differently. I have a teenage son now. I absolutely dont feel like any of the wars, but the United States has been involved in the last 40 years or something that i would want to sacrifice my son or anybody elses son. And its different when it involves your husband, your nephew of your brother, group, son. But it is what is interesting, aaron, is that we have us congressman lindsey graham, for example, wanting the ukrainians to give up their sons at a whim. I work for for ideology air and i mean, you know, this is what makes it really whimsical because the us in many ways because it can print money into oblivion the, the, me, the chickens will come home to roost eventually on that. But the, they couldnt print all the money they want and they can buy all this extremely expensive hardware and send it to ukraine, but they dont lose forces. And that is part of what part of the cynicism of this war, aaron . Yeah, absolutely. The ukrainian losses are pretty staggering now, i mean 400 that over 400005 many accounts, which is thats how much the us last fighting world war 2. If you add up both theaters, pretty much. So this is, and this is a much smaller country. And so the idea that theyre going to somehow turn this around is preposterous at this point. And yet theyre saying this, you do, it does raise the question is by unseen ill uh, or is he being misled or does he, does he just delusional in some other way . Or are they just trying to somehow limp along and say were waiting, you know, everythings going great and hope that they can do that until the election or mean it, its become strange because you at some point they have to be aware that the reality is going to is going to come into play and be brought to bear on the perceptions of people. And it just reminds me of karl rove. And that statement he made a ron suskind. Its always attributed to call rosalie. Were an empire now and we make our own reality. And were seeing the end of that cycle, which really began at the end within the world war 2, the dropping of the nuclear bombs, which was totally gratuitous. And the way that the u. S. Has just fix, explains the way that it one of the world to be understood by people and pretty much and forced that as much as it could. And, but the more, you know, the more the empire kind of, it comes over extended and praying. The more that the narrative just stops conforming to reality. Yeah. But were in that stage now or nothing. Makes any sense. It doesnt make any sense in cuz i in aarons right, right, right. But then one of the problems that i be a symmetrical element of all this is that russia is couch, thats all in its security concerns. The west ignores them, but russia will enforce them. But they, the us primarily and its in and they to world, theyre fighting, an ideological more per, had gemini and not about security. And that is why its so a symmetrical re well, so russia, as you say peter, its an existential thread. And just look at what made g h here. So for my purposes, its a just a few days ago about being required to use Nuclear Weapons in the unlikely chance that nato shyster prevail. So is it an exercise schultz, right to nato or to the United States . Well, not in reality for the take terms, but in a logical if it will. Age administer terms. Yeah. It is. Yeah, yeah. So right, right. But right, they made it that way. They framed it that way is some kind of moral crusade in the end. And thats what makes it even more dangerous because these people look at victoria know and got a promotion for goodman say go gay. These are idealogues and you cannot negotiate with ideologues re, and theyre also delusional. Okay . Theyre not going to, when theyre going to have to face up to the possibility the actual when definitively, russia has enough troops in place to do that. So what will bite and do . Thats really the questionnaire, right . Of administering normally have it, you know, should there, there certainly will be out of this cluster. I mean theres, will lose nail fight, say, well on that top shelf. Theyre the one that has the lock on it, those are the many noakes, will they do that . I would not, would put it passed. So i was thats why you know, natalie, that in ray is absolutely right, and this is what ive been arguing all along. Is that, you know, red lines mean nothing to these people here because they believe that they are, you know, they, the angels are on their side and that they must win the end. And because they have that perception logic, he loads them natalie. Right . But as an american living abroad, it never ceases to amaze me how just being american affords me some kind of cool points. Because america is so good at selling an image at x sporting cultural capital, right . And so for that reason we can sell anything and get away with it. So what the hell was there to pay for the words in the middle least not really much. We were able to leave a smouldering wreckage and go home and what did it cost . Well, not the media leads and their families and so for that reason we continue to sort of think that this is a good template, right . But the idea of, i mean, youre right, its the, you know, the idea of selling something that you are too afraid to push back on. So for instance, weapons of mass destruction, even if you believed that that was not a possibility, it still was too scary to push back. Because of this idea of your family and smoldering bruins. Now we have the same, the same weapons of mass destruction is being used as the narrative of Nuclear Weapons. And if it was going to say that we sent out around with that, but not but natalie. Again, looking at being rational and being using logic, the United States never would have invaded iraq if it did have weapons of mass destruction. I mean, nobodys right. Or they need a price to flip that around to pick it because they knew they didnt have it. Thats why they did have the invasion here, but this they have a hedge, a monic mine site is in place here. I have ok, right, but my air study is the media and so the median knew that there was no weapons of mass destruction. They knew that there was no mounting a forest on the border to create. They knew that and shows not to broadcast it. And so what im most interested in is why is the media picking up the state Department Lies and running with it going into a war where weve been there before . No. Well, i thought you didnt see what ray was doing, but yeah, im gonna ask ray what his name is. Oh, using his fingers far. When we come back from the break, im going to jump in here. Were going to continue our discussion on ukraine. Se state without the, the, [000 00 00;00] the, the welcome back across stock were all things are considered non Peter Roosevelt room, and you were discussing ukraines fate. The. Okay, before we go to re, i want to go to aaron, 1st in, in philadelphia, im glad that natalie brought up a erac because, you know, it was a catastrophe and it was, it was, there was no victory there. Afghanistan, there was no victory there. Um, olivia, up north have forget, still living with the consequences of that even now as we speak right now and i here, but the air and you know, all of those conflicts, catastrophes they didnt directly affect the United States. Natalie is absolutely right. If youre a middle class family, you probably saw it on the news every once in a while and probably got tired of it. Okay. But this is very, very different. And something being a scholar of the cold war, im a product of the cold war, a child of the cold war. Is it one thing great powers bit and do you didnt go after each other, you had proxy wars. This administration wants to take out a Nuclear Power and have regime change. Now, i know people have fantasies, but you know, the reality of that is that that is the, the recipe for catastrophe for world war 3. Aaron. Yeah, absolutely. It is really the continuation of, of policies that do day back to the early cold war of the nato did. And the iron curtain didnt have to exist in the way that they did. They did so because the us economic planners, the pinnacle of wall street power, people at the council on foreign relations. And the oligarchs answered to decided that they needed to make western europe totally aligned with the United States and not trading with the soviet union or the eastern bloc. And so this is a big part of why you get nato and the cut, the iron curtain. And you know, throughout, once the cold war ends a few years later in the mid ninetys, you have china and russia issue in joint declaration saying that they, they believe this would be a multi polar world. And its a few years later that we start seeing the, the us like, you know, launch of the c i a launch is an Al Qaeda Branch to deal with al qaeda and then months after that. Okay. It just says its going to attack the United States, which is an interesting chronology. But all of these incursions into this whole, the near abroad of, or of the former soviet union. These lead up to, um, to what, really, what so the, to the, well, its like a prelude to the global war on terror, which is a way to also sure up air, contested areas of the, you know, energy infrastructure, the world. And then also, you know, ukraine brzezinski writes about this explicitly in the late 19 ninetys commissioned by the council on foreign relations. His book, the grants um the grand test board, he writes about how you create is pivotal entity. If you want to make sure that rested in china, dont come together in force of calorie hedge a monic block. You need to control these areas and emissions ukraine specifically. So this is the latter, and i think the terminal stage of this whole initiative, you know, in the project for a new American Century where you can call it and it failed with the 911 wars in afghanistan on the rack. And it failed with the air of spring wars in libya and syria. I mean, i guess they quote, unquote succeeded in libya, but syria, they failed in this still occupying it blatantly legally and so on. And they are and, and losing, and ukraine. And this is really, i think the its, it represents the collapse eventually i believe, well, well, the air. And so when i, i want to go back to, to ray on this one, went ahead to mine is going down. It doesnt take it lightly. Ok, it doesnt take it lightly and what i worry about going to re right now in raleigh is that they get it refused to lose. Okay. Or theyll come up with some kind of praise. Ive already coined it for on this program that the russians didnt make it to paris oversight. Lisben. We won. Okay. But on a more serious note array, you know, weve, weve seen the north streamed pipelines blown up. Weve seen a major dam destroyed. And what else do they have up there is late because why mike only will concern now is this complet comes to an end eventually is a false flag operation. Thats what i worry about. Most right. Well, peter, you may recall, and so lets see his own ideas about a false flag operation. Namely, blowing up example, russia, a nuclear plants, the largest in europe. They advertise that, and of course, it would be the book, the russia, so were blamed for it. And what, what was really interesting is just a few days before the videos summit, all manner of western officials, nato officials, are came down on the list and said, dont, dont waste 100. I dont, the, the russian attack are ends up. Oh, sure. Yeah. I said they said those though and so id ski and so when you arrive in this use, it was already under a cloud. Are you . Why does that have fall out co into poland and romania and the rest of you . Yeah, he was sort of already ostracized. Now that was the last straw in my view. I dont see any of balls flights from the west of for sure. A certain weather zone and sky will try it on his own. I will not put a pass to. The important thing here is the fact that the no matter what tony blinked and says and already said, of course is i put it in did not a chief is a him. So of are you applying and taking over all of ukraine . Well, you know, like and thinks that those were good trans ams, these willfully what mission formed. I prefer to give them the benefit of those hours. I lie, i dont, he has a long career of being a liar. Okay. I mean, he was a great russia gator. As well, okay, he doesnt get a designated pass in my book and all these people are very maniacal. Natalie, when, you know, when people keep talking about, you know, bringing peace, bringing this conflict to and, and the west. It says it thinks that they can have an a meeting and in copenhagen now in jetta in this, in saudi arabia. But theres always a missing piece, rushes never there. And so theyre not serious about coming. When they want to do is they, they want to re galvanized the world that has losing interest into conflict at the west started against russia. Right . Clearly not because restoral has had an open invitation for peace talks. And zalinski passed a law saying that peace talks are illegal. So how can he attend some parties where peace is going to be a discussion . And every time he talks about peace, what he means is increased security guarantees from the west, which he thinks guarantees, peace, which have not so far, right. And so theyre not serious conversations. And now we see zalinski has extended Emergency Powers to keep himself in office pass what was planned, an election in october. And so if youre a ukrainian you really have no options here for peace. You have a leader who obstinately refuses, and then every now and again, 10 per 10. Theyre asking for peace. Thats what we saw when he address Congress Just a few months ago. What he meant by piece was increased weapons. And so those 2 things do not go together unless youre in new york on, but you know, again its lost in translation because of the sort of, the inability to study the past 10 years of this conflict for most people. And so this idea that it had, you know, had gemini, would lose this battle, be able to spin it because were so good at p r. And then move on. Well, if you look at the map, went from the middle east to ukraine, now well go to taiwan and try that there. And then i dont know when this same template happened, so just keep going, right. And so we go around the horn. Well, either way, aaron, how, you know, im very cynical by watching because i study the media and very cynical its, i always cant. My default tends to be a gripped ok. Afghanistan was a griffith. Ok. You know, you had mark milly crying in front of bible. What about the goals and thats a case of knows about money. Okay. Because it was a good grant there 20 years. Itd be a lot of people made a lot of money off of it does try the country, but by the way, so air and i mean think the ukraine adventure is a griffith as well because i tend to think that people in care of realize yeah, but jake is going to be up eventually, but lets catch it as much as we can while we can. Aaron, the right i, its hard to that. Of course. There are a number of parties interested in eluding ukraine or profiteering office in any way that they possibly can. I dont think that fundamentally it is about a military Industrial Complex boon dog or anything that state forward or crass. Well, i mean its crass but its it, i think its propelled mostly by the urge to punish russia, especially after a rush, intervene and disrupted their plans in syria. I think that the us realize that a, a sort of rush, so thats going to defend its mirror. Broad is a real threat to their long term plans. And that the only place that they can bring this to a head would be in ukraine. And so the evolution, i quote, unquote, fundamentally, i agree with you, particularly, you know, when we look at all of these complex, around the world last 40 years. But this one is against russias specifically, and thats what makes it different. It makes it different because the way the west has constructed this one side has to win and one loses. That is a paradigm that weve never seen before. Aaron, continue, well, is it right . Definitely. They will do. Im sorry, they will end up. Theyll end up taking a good chunk of that territory, and i think that what youre going to end up with in ukraine is something that looks like the 2010 election math the which is the actually you could argue in terms of like justice that, that sort of suitable because i, i wish i would throw that. I wish i had that graphic and because youre absolutely right natalie. I interrupted, you jump in. Oh i, i just wanted to say, is it different or is it same when you look at the middle eastern floors . Those were an attempts to make sure that various countries did not become friends and present a united economic block. That is a similar thing. Its, its more geography than it is. Um, i dont know. I mean were trying to describe attentions intentions here. And aaron was giving them the benefit of the doubt. But it is, it literally just about geography is that you are friends with whoever can disrupt unity in that region. And so ukraine is strategically placed in the same way that syria was in the same way, but libya was. And those leaders who had unifying aims were the ones that became the biggest enemy. Yep. Yep. Right. You want to jump in there, but yeah, one minute before we go to the end, the program go ahead, right. Well, i just wanted to say that i think what youre driving at here is that this is very different. This is challenging a Nuclear Power, which was on voided ever since then, since so, so youve got no clear weapons, right . This is what john kennedy warned about backing up a Nuclear Power into a choice between that humiliating the state and something less than that. Thats what weve done here and weve got a better wake up and smell the coffee. Meanwhile, lets, lets just hope that the biggest proceed as a gradual attrition. I attrition attrition page and ukraine road have to have those early radical hawks in moscow prevail over what i consider to be put change approach. Well, i think all of this, and im not original in saying that so that we all want the conflict to come to an end, because this has a complex that never should have happened in the 1st place. It could have been easily avoided, but there was a certain class of people that were hell bent on making this happen. Thats all the time we have one, i think my guess in philadelphia, raleigh and, and lisbon. And of course, i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at r t c. And next time, remember, prospect roles the, the, the, of the known in vietnam, american war, the vietnam war lost it for almost 2 decades and dragged in numerous countries. Nor does he have written down that you dont see it now. While its all on the empty hundreds of thousands of american troops who was sent to the country to back the south vietnamese on me. I got the not, but the american soldiers, limited resistors, most loosely burned down entire villages and spread dangerous chemicals and lee by all right, did the americans ever fully acknowledge what they did on the vietnamese veterans ready to forgive . Yes, yes, thats the way to the new jobs. Cool. Government is rotating military tax with from the corporate foreign, truthfully, the country he demanded immediate departure of Foreign Military forces in occupations including french forces. It is high time for these horses that have been driven out of my lease and brook enough possible to leave me here. Between targets 20 and a naval base with rows of a nice martian defensive to relate to the top of that this now and do not flatter yourselves because the habits and methods of the former colonialists have not changed. It is only their packaging but as a change for every dollar spent,