Im not generated here by going underground is echoes of the twenty eight failure of western capitalism resoundingly on the british capital the Peoples Assembly against austerity today holds a demonstration against the policies of tory minority government needed to resume here in Central London going up in the show as competition has collapsed after profit warnings this week we speak to a labor m. P. And member of the karelian inquiry roots george about whether tory welfare reform is driving people to suicide and to claimants in different stages of the disability testing system tell us whether reassessing one point six million britons following arguably another failed neoliberal privatization experiment is a good thing told us and more coming up in todays going underground but first since you cant be empty. Resume was hold not being with communists in beijing it was left to a man called david living didnt to answer questions at this weeks pm queues in london and im a celebrity please get me out i livings in replace tourism a is deputy pm damian green who left because of covering up porn in his Office Computer living to new used to work at controversial Mining Company rio tinto was called mr clean by the tory Daily Telegraph will emerge that he wanted u. K. Taxpayers to pay for his toiletries anyway as the share price and u. K. Government private contract to capita all but collapsed while he spoke living did was first for us to say that a previous multibillion pound failure karelian was being addressed would be publishing proposals later this year to stop directors being able to siphon off Pension Funds in any way that he described the message to directors of u. K. Taxpayer funded monopolies could be interpreted then as siphon the cash out of Pension Funds now before teresa mayes government publishes stuff well replacing Jeremy Coleman for label the shadow foreign secretary Emily Thornberry just some identity rather than class politics questions before the speaker had to intervene the order im sure it will no obvious kate Public Notice and it is rather a sad irony that when a woman is addressing the house quite a lot of noisy berish and in one case rather stupid individual out trying to shout the right honorable lady down the. Hall merry return to our main questions about rights of sixteen year olds to vote when change is right it cannot be resisted for ever and this is a change whose time has come to its living to name checks Fred Wilma Bonnie and betty my advice there i told the lady is to wean herself off the habit of watching old versions of the flintstones on the rock and roll away from the fence stones and lowering the voting age a blairite member of jeremy cool beans palm and relabel body use b. M. Cues to attack his own leader and arts fun. Being in goldmans london constituency of his things and every year for over a decade one london borough to london is reeling turn has received more Arts Council Funding than the entirety combined of the middle earns a northern ex caulfield community yes the big issue of our age is arts funding in areas represented in westminster by jeremy corbins front bench no wonder living in was confused im not sure whether that was mentors an attack directed on the right old member for islam to north or for islam to the south is a good south is the constituency of the shadow foreign secretary and livingston went on to defect to defend both corbin and thornberry it seems as if the real battle in parliament is now not between tories and labor its arguably between the red tories of blairite labor and the largest socialist movement in europe led by Jeremy Corbyn corben certainly does not favor means Testing Private contractors and the arguable perfect storm created when the conservative government decided on mandatory testing of disability for those too sick to work personal independence payments or pip were brought in by the Coalition Government in twenty thirteen to replace disability living allowance as part of austerity cuts to bail out the bankers in the city of london assessments once carried out by the British Government were outsourced to private companies capita and i toss now the independent Assessment Service sincerely thirteen nearly two hundred thousand disabled people who previously receive disability living allowance were denied pip with over sixty percent of cases winning on appeal former parliamentary undersecretary of state for the d. W. P. And disabled people just in tomlinson heard this to say in this weeks debate on pip claimant experiences. Only sixteen percent of claimants the highest rate of benefit under it is twenty six percent if you had a Mental Health condition only twenty two. Said a straight sixty six said this is why we are spending three billion a year. Jeremy goldman shadow minister for Business Energy and industrial strategy. This just say back if there is an alternative reality. These are things these affairs these if it does diminish an. Experience is it. Well going underground wanted to speak just some of the people affected by the changes made by the d. W. P. And minority government leaders or is amazed to reassess one point six million claims after the High Court Ruled it was a blatantly discriminatory system the why of never nine when youre going to be assessed never. Going to. Render department of. Health. On how we fair we do treat it and. Frame it we get the pip assessment is a functionality test is about what you can do and not about. Impairment know about your condition know about what trade me in a medication you know taking its can you pick up that cup can you get out of bed can you get dressed can you. Talk to people can you travel on public transport is about functionality its not about your impairment its about disability denial and that youve got. Health condition to nine you need treatment you know and you need medication their attitude you can improve it can get better. And you have any kind of impairment until. Twenty first thing they reassess me. Twenty twenty seven. Going to go for assessment which is. Really when its not its not a north wind. And its a if the closer the city is the voice. Of the medical evidence how hard it was that thick and the martha did not want to take it i have to prove the army and. The impression not poor arthur prove it every world for makes it pain sometimes its three hundred eighteen months. With this one point six million i could look at me as i know we want to so youre going to say well enough if you know the model. Of the person anxiety but you still got to go prove that you deserve your eye hundred pound a month when you lose your support or your supports being cut you cant afford to say your high carb food to pay your electric bills with castillos youre in a freezing cold house you cant afford eight c. Or relying on the food bank to eight we know people who have. Cut back on their medication if theyve had to pay for their medication i have a prepayment prescriptions to fix if i lost my paperwork yet afford that which mean i couldnt have the medication i need day to day so youre making life or death decisions stark choices can i hate can i ate can i pay for my miti cation cannot pay for my equipment that i need and to be a disabled person we have additional costs tutoring pearman we need equipment and Additional Support when youve lost a pet that supports taking away your mobility car which is your legs your independence we are losing our independence our icici been right city to this day are abusing our fundamental here are not in this country has got money it always has money for bombs wars we were. We have money for that we find money for that that way but we cant find money to help kids starving you know people are starving old age pension is not here now we cant for money for that of all and here mark a food bank and i can tell you now that over sixty seventy Percent People in work poverty theyre coming for food but are working out a lady turn up in a carriage in the form. And put shes come into a food bank because she cannot afford to eat. And when you see you see things and you talk to him and you just see him you know all of them appear on paper as well. Is just food banks anything not a food bank should exist in a country which is a country with an affluent hundred twenty thousand people whove died on the streets through to the cuts and i think thats confirmed and we are the first government saw you for good. We pledge of all aid fable people who are u. N. C. R. P. They were published this week the world was involved in it. And then in the shadow side our report is going theres another i call on a government that were going to watch commission going on or i thought that theres eleven point. The eleven points then went on for an advance of one and this is you know this is you wince and youve youve got youve got a youve got to do this youve got or you go out for war you train your seriousness disciple people this is why this government is they want a welfare state on welfare states going union they want unions gone i dont want any of that because then youve got roy i just want you to work to do in the capitalist attend thats all i want you to do this work for your people and then you dont pester independents by mitts process assesses asking claimants who have a history of five or dicing and trying to tell you right now why you know dead yet. That she said to my g. P. Consultant if the nats are success or asked me why you know on seven die prescriptions dive to go to the chemist every week to get to stop me from harming myself my medication is supervised pharma family so i can overdose and i am high risk of harming myself that is what the consultant said if i couldnt if thats a success or asked me that. I could all end up i know the assessment ive told my kids and so cartoonist. Seriously distressed me i wouldnt be able to cope with it theyre in doubt ask me a question not that i could end up buying high. And take in serious money medication and another statistic will never grow and. I dont go out drinking i dont go out you know gambling not i. Do is go out drinking youve got gambling you go with money go. Now i havent. Got anything. But you know why ive got to go. Now to our forum. Where were some people. They cant fire as well as alex and i will fight for them and that is what we do this is what we do it we will fight for we will. We will win if in the end but its a war and thats what filled in a way thats what for over display was about this week was about. Its been one. Where we were in a war. We pit where win awards of all men award for wife. What if we lose and then i. Will all die and im afraid this is war some people. Come in government put out care if i could have warm would be best in the fire but now. That you know what you got blood on your hands for your during this government has blood on its hands the human rights abuses for the human catastrophe of the cuts and this i will peoples lives for the foulness of people are no longer here. Disabled people right now is. Another organizations and groups out there get involved join in. Your rights these are your services you can fight back and do something about it its not hopeless it might feel like. There are people out there to support groups out there to get involved when he can do something about this and its it rattles the m. P. s when you go into parliament and sit it by its because you are living testimony of what theyre doing and i cant run from that. Heart i try and you know i. Exist we are here and i am here to say this is rome and we will. If youre being affected by any of the issues raised contact any of the following organizations which may be able to provide professional help and advice coming up after the break more from collective punishment or austerity britain the u. K. Work and select committees rules george impede the number of british suicides of those being assessed for disability is double pole is a ball coming up in part two of going on the ground. Level for hard selling you on the idea that dropping bombs brings police to the Chicken Hawks forcing you to fight the battles. That you stopped by to tell you that something gossiping probably my files to. Tell you poland might. Be all the hawks that we along with all the. Well go back to the first of the show we heard from two people in different stages of an arguably calf gasket assessment process that has been ruled by the British High Court as blatantly discriminatory the d. W. P. Said we introduced pip to replace the outdated d. L. A. System pip is a better benefit which takes a much wider look at the way an individuals Health Condition or disability impacts them on a daily basis underpaid twenty nine percent of claimants receive the highest rate of support compared to fifteen percent under the d. L. A. Our next guest attended this weeks debate on personal and about abatements ruth george labor m. P. And member of the u. K. Work and Pensions Committee joins me now ruth welcome back to you are going underground so we heard a little earlier from some of those affected by these disability tests conducted by private contractors or big logs on the show about it we created a debate in parliament about this what are you hearing from your constituents about disability testing absolutely i think all them pays a hearing from their constituents about disability testing were getting cases through often every week. Particularly after i was first elected i agreed to meet with a group of women who were survivors of Sexual Violence and abuse who wanted to tell me about how the benefit system had affected their im a member of the work and Pensions Select Committee so they wanted me to be able to take that very harrowing evidence and try and use it change the systems that theyre finding because so many assessments are not allowed to be done as a Home Assessment then people have to travel often considerable distance to an Assessment Center somewhere in a in a big city very impersonal buildings often and for someone whos a survivor of violence and is often and suffering from posttraumatic stress disorder then thats incredibly difficult thing to do and very traumatic again let alone to be faced with an assessor who simply wants to get them through a list of questions in the time. Time allotted and they have a standard script to follow i mean ive heard from women whove said that theyve been curled up on the floor and crying from the trauma of having to relive the experiences that theyve been through and describe the impact that its had on them with an assessor who simply repeats the question to them doesnt acknowledge their trauma and their grief at all and this has a Lasting Impact on people who have to go through the process and he also said the. Newton leaders abilities to do instead as to regress department they want to give people a good Customer Experience will you make of the answer to what you just said when you say the environment what i asked them really is a language there give people a good Customer Experience its very much the language of the private sector but i i dont object to the fact that if people in they they do you have to we do have to have some form of assessment for benefits we cant just have anyone who applies to receive benefit absolutely we all understand that on all sides of the house but you want to make sure that its helpful it was weary and means these were means tested before were they being means tested now why do you recognise the importance of mean its its not so much means testing for income its about testing what people are able to do one nasal of the able bodied she work and i mean the government say that they want to enable people to live a fulfilling life often there should be enough medical evidence from peoples medical records to be able to ascertain whats the point where theyre all in knots theyre able to work for some people there might be a need for them i mean my view is that theres far too many people having to undergo these assessments far too many are having to go to Assessment Centers and the private companies that are doing them are actually cutting the costs by particularly outsource or i. A. S. As theyre now calling themselves say about. Sixty nine percent of their assessments are done in Assessment Centers whereas the other Company Capita its only sixteen percent done in assessment so it was members of the minority conservative government say the problem with what were going through is you dont understand that we have to reduce costs theres no doubt this is reduced cost testing the most vulnerable in society to bail out because of the cost of bailing out the banks incentivizing bankers to come here this is what is what is important you dont realize it because. Government is again still repeating even though theyve changed their mind on the testing regime that its intention is to reduce cost by twenty percent absolutely thats the aim is to reduce costs but the government themselves are admitting that theyre failing in that way the whole system is actually costing more than it did previously partly because weve got private Companies Involved so theyre making a profitable way although maybe only if you are not as in peoples hundred quid a week is it. Disability benefit theyre paying the disability benefit but i mean theyre also paying for the costs of the whole assessment process where were seeing so many hundreds of thousands of people having to go to monday to reconsideration and then even more than that having to go to tribunals and appeal because the decisions are wrong thats costing the state millions and almost a balance of sounds really added to the cost of the assessment process so if you are the costs to the government of rectifying the appalling decision that they made to illegally refuse people with psychological trauma support in order to get out of the house then thats going to cost three point seven billion pounds to reassess that make takes up all of the savings that theyve made over a three year period they should have simply done these assessments properly in the first place in a way that really supports people with disabilities have to be made properly why are they being made at all i mean now the government does seem centers. As you would have it and i just cited to two of now again reassess what point six million claims. That the right decision listing government finally weve had the right decision that the government needs to reassess the claims of one point six Million People to make sure that theyre receiving the benefits that they need to make sure that they get the support that they need to get out of the house to work if theyre able to do that. Certainly we on the labor benches would say they need to look very carefully at how they do that to try and make sure that they dont actually contribute. Any more why are we testing them at all i mean if one figure is seven hundred Million Pounds the cost to someone argue torture people out of one hundred pounds a week do you in the labor party seem to believe there are a significant number of people faking Mental Illness no absolutely. Not certainly not saying that Everybody Needs to be tested by any means and only a very small number should actually have to go for any sort of assessment notice that who is tested im certainly arguing on the work and Pensions Select Committee and the labor party are arguing that the government ought to be bringing this back inhouse so that weve got a proper system for training the assesses and proper system for making sure we havent got targets in place so that they have to meet the targets for the numbers of people who are refused benefits and that weve got a decent system that treats people properly not as weve seen from all the case studies that have come through give a general exam which labels only its not demagogue and Labor Party Policy to get rid of this its not mean says youre on income which means testing on health youre going to continue it if youre going to government what were saying is that the vast majority of people can be assessed from their medical records and that their medical information should be made available to assesses and it should be clear is day for most of that. Medical records what a person is capable of or not in a few cases because there are cases where people have graduations of a different disease then maybe a few people need to sesson but not the sort of ninety percent or so assessed in Assessment Centers or at home as they are at the moment were looking more like a sort of five or ten percent number who may lead to five or ten percent its done inhouse by the government in a way that supports people make sure that theyre actually getting the support that they need because thats part of it to some peers in the region to blairism to the golden everybody that you are still going to means test this isnt this isnt about means testing its about where its absolutely necessary there will be cases where people have to be tested on abilities. In the vast majority of cases that is not necessary what people are being put through is not necessary its not Cost Effective and all its doing is putting money in the pockets of private companies you not only on the official work and Pensions Committee environment your other sort of a Committee Regarding karelian the multimillion pound failure because a lot of it was going drag are you going to bring some of this experience youre having over a person depends very much disability has to do what you do on that committee you want to really i think its absolutely relevant to look at the way that these huge outsourced companies which gain billions of pounds of taxpayers money are actually using that money whether theyre meeting quality standards and whether theres actually any competition in there to make sure theyre not simply taking money for old rope. And driving their own costs down driving paying conditions for their own staff down to the lowest common denominator but simply using a system that takes more and more contracts and fees of the government to prop up an increasingly failing internal financial structure where youve got huge dividends of directors taking huge bonus payment. Of ours as a the taxpayer is being mugged for hundreds of millions of pounds to. Her these people are trying to get around. I think that if we look at the way the system operates the system is mugging people for. A by putting them through so much trauma that often they dont feel able to go through an appeal process because theyve been through so much as part of an assessment process already and those people individuals are losing out this is what we can show that it wasnt meant to you because the majority agree winning their cases on appeal yet almost two thirds of people win their cases on appeal thats how bad the system is i would absolutely advise people if they have been turned down for a benefit assessment that they should go to appeal if they feel they can cope with that process but theres so many people in such a fragile state of mind that they really dont feel they can cope weve had some figures in the last couple of months from Disability News Service who said that the number of suicides the proportion of suicides had actually doubled the people who undertook the Work Capability assessments thats an absolutely appalling statistic that labor party have asked the government to go away and look at in the context of the questions on suicide that being asked in those assessments and its very important that we protect people absolutely i would want to see people go to appeal if they will get what they need and what they deserve from that i would hope that they can also find support through that process because it is so traumatic but unfortunately support services are being cut as well and many people are finding that theyre having to go through that whole legal a stick adversarial process with minimum support george thank you thats it for the show will be back on monday the door jam again showed the british member of parliament who represent the richest constituency in the u. K. Which includes the world of kensington and chelsea she thinks a new government led by jeremy told me you can get to god with us by virtue of media with your money fifteen. He is today u. S. Secretary of state colin powell would use to fabricated evidence to the u. N. Security council to justify the illegal angloamerican invasion of iraq. All to see we have a great team but we need to strengthen before the free float world cold and greenbacks have been a legend to keep it so i took it back. In ninety ninety two that must qualify for the european championships at the very last moment no one believed in us but we won and im hoping to bring some of that winning spirit to the r. C. T. Recently i had a lot of practice so i can guarantee you that Peter Schmeichel will be on the best form since my last will come on that story as well as three. Thousand zero zero zero zero zero zero i called russia. Nice dr. No i was left left left more or less ok stop thats really good. Oh no appetite i mean for conflict is very very low these days publics are much more eager to see economic improvement than they are to actually get into a fight with a neighbor or or with other powers in the world. P. D. Q