NCHSAA press conference addresses concerns of state lawmakers
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A friend wanted you to see this item from High School OT: https://wr.al/1K6ut
The commissioner, president, and vice president of the N.C. High School Athletic Association are meeting with members of the media after HighSchoolOT broke the story this week that members of the General Assembly are investigating the association's authority as a non-profit organization and looking into the association's finances.
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have you on this morning for a press conference of the North Carolina High School Athletic Association. My name is James Albertson. I'm the assistant commissioner for media relations, and I will be moderating our press conference today. We do have on the call with us this morning President Jerry Simmons, who is the principal at New Bern High School, and Vice President Bobby Wilkins, who is, uh, the principal at Hendersonville High School, and we're glad to have both of them on the call with us this morning. Commissioner Q. Tucker is sitting right beside me. She will also be on this call, and they will be the three primary speakers today answering your questions. But we will begin with a brief opening statement from, uh, President Simmons and then Commissioner Tucker. Before we take your questions, we will take questions via the Q and a, uh, down in the bottom of your screen. If you would like to ask a question, please type it into the Q and A and I will be reading those questions, moderating them and directing them to the appropriate person, whether that's Jerry Simmons, Bobby Wilkins or Commissioner Tucker. So with that and without any further ado. Uh, we will be posting the recording of this and sending a link out to you guys that you're able to download the recording when we wrap up. But without any further ado, I'll turn it over to President Jerry Simmons. Thank you very much for being with us this morning. All right. Thank you so much, James. And good morning. I am Jerry Simmons on the principle of New Bern High School and president of our Board of Education, the board of directors for the North Carolina High School Athletic Association. I want to thank each of you for your attendance this morning and your interest in high school athletics. As a member of the board of directors for the past several years and now the board president, I just want to reflect on the hard work of our board of directors and school administrators and in particular, athletic directors. Over the course of the past year, statewide, a BS have worked tirelessly to clean, sanitized schedule, reschedule and plan for student athletes to have the chance to participate in sports this year. Their efforts were are what make the N. C. H s a possible, and their leadership has been a shining light in this pandemic. I want to shine the light. Also on the work of this year's board of directors, I have the pleasure to lead this group. Working with some truly dynamic professional educators and administrators, they've sacrificed time and effort on behalf of the membership. I believe that it's safe to say that this board of directors has met more often and devoted more time to the association business than any other board of directors in a single year. And the association is proud. 108 year history. The Covid 19 pandemic has required that level of sacrifice by each of us. And we've gladly given that I can't say enough about Commissioner Tucker and our Associates association staff. They are creative and innovative. Approach has been tremendous, especially since last spring. With those things said, I will highlight a few things about the N C. H s A that I have come to understand over the course of my years, serving on the board first, the N. C. H. S. A. Is a voluntary association of schools. It's not simply an office in Chapel Hill or our staff who worked in that office. All 421 member schools of the N C. H s A. Constitute the organization. Our member schools are represented by a board members based on their geographic region and classification. These persons are nominated each year and ultimately approved by the membership. Our association is student focused. Every endeavor of the N. C. H. S A is undertaken with the goal of benefiting student athletes at our member schools across the state, whether working in student services, sports and championships, or health and safety. The N C. H s. A. As an organization strives to put the necessary tools and training in the hands of those on the ground level, working with the student athletes in order to support and enrich the educational experiences of our students. Our association staff makes decisions in a thorough and thoughtful manner when applying the rules and regulations of the association's member schools. When board members hear appeals on the staff decision, they consider rules the situation and then determine whether or not the rule is applied fairly and just they also consider whether or not the rule as developed as having the intended effect board of directors do this on behalf of the membership. To keep the playing field, fair members govern other members. That is what happens when joining and participating in a volunteer organization like the N. C. H. S. A. Over the past several days, it's been disheartening and honestly infuriating to hear some of the comments that the members of our General Assembly have made about the NCHS A. Its governance and leadership of high school athletics in our state. These comments ranged from ill informed to just plain wrong to set the record straight. I want to unequivocally state that the N. C. H. S. A. Is not an organization devoid of oversight and is not lining the pockets of his staff and board members any a search can. Otherwise it's careless, uninformed and downright false. The board of directors provides regular oversight of the day to day operations of the N. C. H. S. A. The articles of Incorporation by Laws and Handbook regulations outlined the prescribed ways in which the association is to operate our board of directors, provides governance, provides guidance on organizational direction and oversight of budgeting, finance, investment and other organizational decisions. The staff meets measurable benchmarks for progress towards board action items and requests. They do so on behalf of the member schools we served. I want to be clear. Members of our board of directors regularly supervised and review the association's budget, investments and distributions to member schools. These items are approved by the board on behalf of the member schools that we served. Our association has ordered it once a year. And the board Here's a full audit report annually. The N. C. H. S A. Has an exemplary track record of fiscal responsibility and stewardship of the resources entrusted to us by its member scoops. Frankly, we are fortunate to have such resources and careless and careful leadership in our state. It has been suggested that the N C. H. S A. Is sucking money out of schools. Nothing could be further from the truth. In 2010 and 11 board members looked at the growth and health of the association and its endowment, and it found more substantial ways to give money back to the member schools. In the 10 years since those decisions, the financial stewardship of the association board and staff has allowed the NCHS A to send more than $12.8 million back to member schools. Last year alone. In a year when we were unable to play the state basketball championships and our spring playoffs due to Covid, the association was still able to distribute more than $1.2 million to its member schools. Of that, $1.2 million over 400,000 was from the interest earned on the visionary endowment put in place by Charlie Adams and the NCHS, a board of directors. Another nearly $100,000 came from the the other association investments and $250,000 due to the N. C. H s A. Coming in under budget. This is a remarkable track record and one that, quite frankly, is not common in state associations across this country and closing. Let me just put to rest any questions as to whether or not R N. C. H s a member schools have received money from the $4 million allocation by the Board of directors for Covid Athletic Program subsidy or Caps program the board approved last December. The answer is absolutely yes, we have as a member school principal, I can assure you, assure you that it has been received and it is highly appreciated. While not all of the $4 million has been dispersed, association has distributed more than $2.4 million already with each member school. Whether offering a sport this this year or not receives a piece of the pie, the remaining dollars will be distributed at the close of this athletic year. That distribution will be based on a formula for the number of sports to school field it this year. The allotment is designed to help offset some expenses encouraged by participating in a year when spectator attendance has been limited or not allowed at all. We're fortunate to be in the financial position. We are as an association because of the stewardship of the association board on behalf of the member schools and the cooperation of schools to contribute to such a plan, high school athletics in North Carolina is able to weather this difficult storms that none of us could prepare for an arm in this way and many other ways. We, the N C. H s A are truly better together. Thank you Now to Commissioner Tuck. Thank you, President Simmons. And good morning. My name is Q Tucker and I am the commissioner of the North Carolina High School Athletic Association, just as President Simmons did. I want to welcome you to this press conference and thank you for the important role that you, as the media play in telling the story of high school athletics in our state and in your communities. I want to thank President Simmons and Vice President Wilkins for their outstanding leadership throughout this very difficult year. Uh, a year in which we've tried to do everything we can to ensure that we have athletics. Over the past several weeks, we have withstood a barrage of public outcry relative to spectator limits. And in the past few days, we have witnessed legislative involvement in the business dealings and operations of the N C. H s A. This is unfortunate because much of what we have read and heard is inaccurate and does not accurately reflect the NCHS a and its mission. So please indulge me as these comments I'm about to make maybe a little lengthy. The N C. H. S. A. Is an outstanding organization currently made up of 421 outstanding member schools across the state. Their athletic programs are led by dedicated and hardworking administrators and coaches who care about their students and the communities. When people attack the N C H S A. They attacked not only the association staff but also the board of directors and each member school. We have heard legislative state that the NSA is not student focused. They have insinuated that the NCHS A has charged student athletes to play in our programs, taken cash and resources from our member schools, particularly the poorest of the poorest of schools, and that the N. C. H. S A. Does not have the credentials to make the decisions that we have been required to do during this pandemic. All of this is far from the truth. So I want to take this opportunity to refute some of the misinformation that has been shared of late by legislators and aired on radio shows or printed by you. The media. The NCHS A has never charged individual students fees for regular season and postseason competition, while the N C H s A. A does charge minimal membership dues for services that the Association provides to its member schools. Those fees have been authorized by the board of directors. The N C H S A. Does not take gate money away from its member schools, and it does not impact its poorest members by stripping them of their resources. The association does not receive any gate money during the regular season, with one exception. Currently, member schools are allowed to voluntarily schedule and contest one extra game per sport season above and beyond the season limitation, in which the association receives 25% of the gate revenue for that contest, schools keep the other 75%. The 25% is designated for the N. C. H s a endowment. This is a voluntary and extra regular season game. During the playoffs, the N C H S A takes a small percentage of gate revenue that is made in each round of the playoffs but still shares that revenue. With competing teams in the content all the way up to and through the state championship games now does the N. C. H s A need revenue to operate. Absolutely every organization does does the n. C. H s a unnecessarily put heavy burdens on its member schools financially. No, it does not. In fact, this year, when limited or no Spectators have been allowed by governors, Cooper's executive orders the association has not taken a share of revenues made for home games hosted by our member schools. This is only possible because of the solid financial position of the association and the commitment to measure and very meaningful stewardship about the board of directors. Some have stated that the association would not have provided the $4 million dispersement of board designated endowed funds that President Simmons talked about had the Legislature not pressured staff to do something for members stools. Actually, last summer, N. C. H s a staff began exploring ways to assist member schools during the pandemic. When the agenda for the board meeting was posted by November 1, it included a suggestion for a financial support dispersement. During its December 2nd and third meeting, board members reviewed those suggestions and settled on a $4 million dispersement. On November 18th. Staff did in fact receive an inquiry from a legislator asking the N. C. H s a A to consider some form of grant program for struggling athletic programs. But in fact, we already had in place such a grant program. I shared with that legislator that we financially supported our member schools in other ways. The Caps program that will distribute $4 million from the endowment back to member schools was already in the works prior to a senator requesting the association do something for member schools. So to suggest that the legislation that the distribution, um, was driven by a legislation a legislator is not factual. Since this is a press briefing, let me address the credentialing of the media. During the recently concluded state basketball championships, we forwarded to our member schools that would be participating in the state basketball championships, a procedure whereby they could credential media who had followed them throughout the regular season. They were given the option to have six MIT media in attendance at that contest, and once they designated those six individuals, then the NCHS A had a procedure in place whereby we allowed them to be able to attend the contest and at the same time followed the Covid 19 guidelines, as issued by Governor Roy Cooper. I'll pause there to say this the mission of the N C. H. S A. Is to provide governance and leadership that both enriches and supports the educational mission of the N C. H s A. Okay, we, as they have those educational opportunities, we understand the role of athletics in support of the educational, uh, mission of our schools. So we exist to support that we exist to enrich those opportunities. I have been with the association now for almost 31 years for almost 30 years, and if I thought that we were straying from that mission, I would not continue to do what I do. I believe that we have led under the guidance of our border directors in a way that is fair. It is equitable, and it provides unlimited opportunities for our students to participate in interscholastic athletics. We also are fortunate that we are able to also provide unlimited opportunities for leadership development. And so, with all of that in mind, I feel good about what the N. C. H s a has done is doing today and will do in the future. So at this time, our paws and take your questions. Just thank you, Commissioner Tucker. Uh, I will start the Q and A with a question from Bryan Hanks for commissioner Tucker. Did the NCHS a take out a PCP loan? And if so, how did the organization certified that economic uncertainty made that loan request necessary? Brian Yes, the NCHS at a did take out a P P. P loan. We did that just like every other state association across the country. And just to be clear, just about every other state athletic association in the country as a five Oh, one c three, just like we are with the staff we have with the bills that we incur to operate, Uh, that loan provided us the opportunity to continue to pay staff without laying off the staff and then to be able to operate so that we could find ways to get our students back into the playing arena as we move throughout the summer. And as you know, we did not have any spring sport championships. We did not have a state championship, so the finances that we typically would have received that go into our operating budget were not available last spring. So we did in fact apply for the loan. We received a loan. It was forgiven, with the exception of a small amount that we had to pay back. Thank you, Commissioner Tucker. Our next question will come from Caleb Talman, who works at Fetch your news sports up in the mountains. Uh, and this is for Commissioner Tucker or Jerry Simmons, or even for Bobby Wilson, Um, listed in the N. C. H S. A s core values and beliefs is fair play. It says the interpretative shared interpretation of the rules. The equal treatment of all concerns sticking to agreed rules and not using unfair advantages is something to be strolling for. With that said, how fair is it for one A schools to compete against charters and prep schools that have open enrollment where a so called lottery system. And then he mentions Winston Salem School District, uh, where they have prepping magnet schools that can pull from 55,000 students, while a Cherokee County, a traditional district, has about 2500 students. K 12 or Clay County has 1200 students K 12. What way would you all consider it to be fair and equitable treatment for those types of districts to have to compete against charter and prep schools from Winston Salem. So the one of one of my, uh, president, vice president, would you all like to take the lead on that? And then I can follow up? Well, let me say this First and foremost it is. Winston Salem is not the only school system in our state that has charter schools or magnet schools. There are several school system in our state with such schools. Now, one of the things that obviously hurts Winston Salem Prep is the fact that it has prep in its name, which, in and of itself just gives people the idea that it is a charter school. But that is a decision that the board of directors that the Board of Education for Winston Salem Forsyth County schools made as to what they would name that school. But that school is overseen by a board of education. Just as other school systems oversee their magnet schools, their specialty schools that allow students to play at one school while attending another school under the control of that Board of Education. Now it is very difficult for us to tell boards of education how to assign their students. We obviously leave that to the boards of education. We consider each charter school its own l E A. And so, in terms of the equity as it relates to where they play and whether you can draw from multiple schools within your school system, then certainly that is not something that the N C. H s a A can control itself. But we do have limitations and boundaries in place. That deal, let's say, with our charter schools as it relates to athletics moving from one charter school to another school once they have enrolled in that charter school, there are some rules in place that keep the movement within reason. So, you know, to be able to control it is certainly not something that we can do. We simply must yield to our boards of education, especially if they have those magnet schools or specialty schools. They are within their rights to assign them as they see fit. Jerry, do you have anything to add to the commissioner's words on charter and prep schools? I think Commissioner Tucker nailed it. Look, uh, the athletic association were reactive, and and, uh, I don't like using that word, but that's the appropriate word. like like the rest of us. Meaning we talk about the landscape of public public education to this education in general. It has changed, and it's constantly changed. And so we, um, are fortunate enough that our board the boards of directors in in the past and no different than our current board we have to react and try to make sure that we put, um, stipulations in place that will keep things as fair and equitable as possible. But, um, things things are rapidly changing. Um, but but just so we're clear, those are still young young student athletes at all these these institutions and we want to make sure that they have opportunities to compete. And so yes, um, Commissioner Tucker, she pointed out that there are certain rules in place to make sure that that things are fair. Once there, we we do very little in trying to control um, what Elliot's do with their schools inside their district. So no, that's about it. Alright. Next, we'll take a question from Joe's correra Greensboro News and record this for Commissioner Tucker. Do you believe the investigations by legislators are politically motivated? Yeah. Yeah, Well, I don't know it's I'm not gonna try to speculate as to why I think people do what they do. Um, that's not a power. I have to try to, uh, figure out what goes on in the minds of people. What I will say, Joe, is that this probably started back in the fall back in 2019, during the football season, we had a football team, Um, in the second game of the season, Um, that participated in an altercation on the field. We have a rule that states if you rise to a level of three or more altercations in one event, then that team would be ineligible for the playoffs. Unfortunately, um, after we viewed all of the footage we had, we levied that penalty and the school decided not to inform the team and the community. And two months later, when the penalty and of course, the member school did not appeal. And two months later, when it came time or it became apparent what that rule was or what the penalty was for that school, it created an outcry, and the members of that community were upset. And it was at that point that we received legislative inquiry. Now I'm not telling you anything that hasn't been in print already this week. And so when legislators inquired about the team and ask for the team to be placed back in the playoffs, then obviously that is not something that I had the authority to do. And since that time, there has continued to be, um, questions. And then it would appear that there are those who started looking to see by what authority we do, what we do. So, you know, is that political? I don't know. I'll leave that to you, Joe, to put your own spin on it. But that's when I think this really took a life of its own coming out of the fall of 2019. And I can tell you that you know, all of you know that we have this handbook right here, and this handbook is really what we used to, uh, make decisions as a staff. Um, the rules and regulations that are in this handbook were approved by membership over the course of time. And so for me to stray from from the interpretation and then the levying of penalties when those rules are not followed, would be dereliction of duty on my part. And so, as unfortunate as it is, when a team misses the playoffs due to inappropriate behavior or using an ineligible player, I still am required to levy the penalty or issue what the interpretation of the rule is. And if that involves for 15 games missing the playoffs or whatever may be the case, then I have to follow through with my responsibility. Bobby. Jerry. Anything to add? There. Okay. Next, we'll move to Chris Hobbs. Hobbs Daily Report. Chris asked how many people are employed in the Chapel Hill office currently? And what's the total expenditure for those positions on an annual basis? Well, currently, we have 18 18 members employed. We have one part time employee, our health consultant. We have a part time receptionist, Uh, and then everyone else is hired on a full time basis. Um, what is our total expenditure? Salary wise? Uh, like I don't know. I'd have to look. What's that? Give me a moment. I don't need to look at the budget. I don't really spend a lot of time trying to see what all my staff members make, uh, to try to see what? That totals, uh, in in terms of, uh, But we'll get that for you here in just a moment. So if we can get another question, I'll wrap back around and give that figure to you in a moment. Chris. Nick Stevens high school ot asking State legislators expressed to you what their goal is in their inquiry into the association. And have they mentioned any specific changes or actions they want to see from the N C. H s a well knit? No. I think legislators have talked to you more than they talked to me. Um, I have not spoken to any legislators. Um, I did have I did have a voice message from a legislator yesterday. Uh, and any time a legislative calls, I am always open and listen to their questions. Usually it has to do with something. You know, I had a conversation with the legislator about cheerleaders. Uh, so usually it doesn't rise to the level that it it is today. So I have no idea what the end game is for the legislative involvement. I'm probably just gonna wait to see what you guys are able to find out because as I said, uh, there on your radio shows and talking to you way more than they're talking to me. So I guess, uh, the endgame remains to be seen. Alright, Next, we'll have a question from Bryan Hanks. Uh, this is for Cube. The N C. H s. A s value has doubled from 20 million to more than 40 million in the last decade or so. While many schools in rural and urban areas have unmet needs for their student athletes, uh, he asked, How is that massive accumulation justified While so many NCHS a member schools are suffering? Okay, the first thing I want to say is this. State associations across the country are not designed to fund school athletic programs. The choice of having an athletic program rests with the school itself. So if a school decides that it's going to have an athletic program, then it is incumbent upon that school and its community to to determine how they will fund that program. So I just want to be clear with that now, in terms of amassing the money's if you if you to to get right down to it. We have $40 million in net assets. Okay, now, that includes the building that includes, um, you know, the equipment and everything that's in here, inclusive of the endowment, et cetera, which we've used over time. But as, um, when I came on board in 1991 was when the idea of the endowment was born and began. And so over time, the idea of that endowment was to grow the endowment to a point that we would be in a position to be able to help our member schools and any of you who have money? No, that in order to make money, you have to have some money. So over time, that endowment has grown and it grew to a point that in the late two thousands before Charlie Adams retired, we started doing some things to help our schools. Coming out of that endowment, every school was was given an e. D back when I e ds were just really coming into existence or coming into its own, we made sure that every school had an a e. D. That was just one way that the endowment started to be used. We set up scholarship programs. Those dollars were coming out of the invested money. And so we. We then got to a point when Davis Whitfield came on board and in his leadership, along with the board of directors during that time, made the decision that the endowment had grown to a point that we could start giving money back on an annual basis. And so, starting in 2010 11, that's when the formula was put in place by the Finance Committee of the board of Directors. They approved how we would give monies back, and since that time we've been, we have given back a lot of money to member schools. Now there are those people who believe that, well, we just should wipe out the endowment and let's just give it all back to the schools today and then then we don't have to worry about this. Well, I would bet you even legislators would say that's not a very wise move, because I believe I read the other day where the General Assembly says that we have billions of dollars that have been set aside for a rainy day. So I guess you could say that the association has millions of dollars that are set aside for a rainy day. And certainly we're in a rainy day right now in terms of this pandemic and have been able to give back some monies, and we'll continue to do that. I'm sure that this board of directors, before it's all said and done, we'll take a look at the formula that is in place and try to determine. Does it need to change? Do we need to change it so that more money is given back? So to say that our poorest schools are not getting the monies that they deserve? Um, I think it's unfair. I think our board has has a plan in place that is equitable and helps every school from what we call poorest to the most risk to the most resourceful school that we have. Jerry, Bobby, Did you have anything you would like to add on the UNECE unmet needs of schools and and the association Endowment. Thank you, Yeah, James, I'll just I'll just say quickly. I I didn't understand everything that our association did for us until I became a member of the board I've been working at at high schools and with high schools for a decade and a half, but a full appreciation for, um, just the visionaries that came before me on the board and and and certainly the staff and how they've been able to plan for for this. So I agree with Q and everything she said. Oh, hardly. The goal has never been to zero out. Um, what what we have in the way of of a balance, because we we have to be there and have have a have resources that are able to help remember schools in a time of need. But but certainly, um, much of those dollars that are being talked about here those have come through some very wise choices and some very smart investments over the years and, um, with without ever, um, sliding our memory schools at all. So, um, I've become even even a larger fan of our association, having had the opportunity to see that the inner workings and how we've gotten to this point. Uh, next question. We'll go, uh, to Langston works Charlotte Observer. Um, and I'll wrap this in with a question from Earl von uh down in Fayetteville as well. It's just for Q or even Jerry Orr. Bobby with the Association Consider having charters play upper class. And how do you view concerns about non boarding schools in the association? As that issue has come up constantly, Earl is essentially asking about the possibility of creating a separate class or championship for charters, private and open or wide enrollment for one A and one a trying to level the playing field. So I'll kind of wrap those two questions in together. Q. If you lead off, and then Jerry, Bobby, any thoughts that you all have on that as well. Well, uh, Langston and uh, Earl, first of all schools, joined the association understanding, uh, the structure they understand our classification system. So we had a traditional schools committee meet many, many times over the last 10 years trying to figure out a way to level the playing field. Uh, and one of the things that that committee always walks away from, uh, their discussion is that if we try to do something, uh, to our charter schools, then not only are we being unfair, but in a sense we have been set up another inequitable playing field for member schools. And so I can tell you that the very first time a non traditional schools committee met, they started tossing around ideas that range from, uh, playing upper class to having a success formula, uh, to you know, anything that you could just about think of. But at the end of the day, I remember one of the principles saying, Well, you know what if we start trying to say that you've got to play up if you win X number of championships, we can't just say that to the charter schools. It would have to apply across the board because that would be the only fair thing is that we would have to apply to those traditional schools that win championships after championships after championships and those of you who have been around for a long time. You remember when Hazel or high school up in Clay County won six straight women's basketball championships? So if we applied that formula, we would have been saying that hes for high school would need to go from being a 18 girls 1 18, to I guess, the 2 18. And as that committee started thinking about that, they said, Well, this night, we can't do that. We can't have people playing up. Uh, we've got to figure out another way. And then one of the principal also went this far. He said, You know what? We just gotta quit fussing about what charter schools are doing, and we've just got to get better ourselves. He was a traditional school principal, and he said, We just need to get better ourselves. We gotta go out, work harder and do what we need to do to be better. Um, and so you know, it has been addressed, uh, and playing divisions. Uh, I'm not sure that that is the answer again. You have to treat everybody fairly because schools come into the association because they believe that we are a fair organization. We have structure, we have rules and regulations in place, and that's why they want to be in this association. So, uh, I think want if people will will be a little patient, and we'll kind of look at what has happened with the realignment this year. There are some things that were put in place, some out of the box thinking by the Realignment Committee that has moved several of of schools from one classification to another that should make some difference. Obviously, uh, you know, that remains to be seen, but we hope that that will at least level the playing field to some degree. I'll let Bobby and injury maybe answer or share some other thoughts about that. Mm. I would just jump in and say, um yes, the inclusion of R I. P. R. Meaning of, Of course, trying to address are folks who have less access to resources than others. And, of course, um um, are Wells Fargo Cup points. Um, this year, um, and setting our classification benchmarks. All of that was aimed at trying to and and so we're clear. We know we don't have a perfect product. I don't know that one exists. This this this this goal of equity I mean, that's that's not an arrival. Um, that's that's a pursuit, and we and we're after that. But, um, as Cuba has already stated, being a non traditional and we use that term loosely now. But being a charter or private school doesn't automatically mean that you you have an advantage over others, and we we have a We have lots of our more traditional schools that are very successful, but the goal is for us to continue to, um, sort of gauge the landscape and make sure that we're we're trying to get ahead of that, But But in many cases, again, we're reactive. But, um, we are trying to make sure that we're giving everyone the opportunity to be successful. So we feel like we are at least aware of it. And we're trying to move in the right direction. Yeah, Bobby, anything for you to add? Well, I've been in this for 43 years and I've watched all of this. I've been a part of both sides of it, and I have to say that, uh, I think it's been looked at very closely, and I think they've done a really good job over the years, making sure that we do the right thing for the kids, and I think that's that's what I look at. Like I said, I've been on both sides of it because I used to coach and I coached against some teams that I felt like I shouldn't have been there, but after I've looked at it and heard more about it, I'm back on the other side. I agree I think the N C. H. S. A. Has done a really good job doing the right thing for all the kids. It's hard to do the right thing in everybody's mind all the time, but overall, I think it's been very well done. Thank you very much. Bobby and and Jerry. Our next question will go to, uh, Jerry and Bobby, and it's from Nick Stevens at high school. O. T. If you ask as principles of the NCHS a member schools, what would you say to principals and administrators in the state who are reaching out to their legislators to raise concerns? The legislators have told them in high school and see that they're hearing from athletic records and principles about many of these issues we're discussing today. What would be your message to them, Jerry about, dear. I'll go ahead. I read that and I thought, Wow, why are they not contacting the NCHS? Say, Hey, why are they calling the, uh legislators? They need to go through the High School Athletic Association? I would say before they do anything to their state legislators. I don't understand that That thinking that's who I would go to is is Go straight to the point, uh, and find out. You know, whatever the n c. H s a has is an answer. So I don't understand that. Yeah, And I would if I'm speaking to fellow principals and school administrators, I would say so. This is very familiar territory for us. Um, because leading schools were we're accustomed to folks not always agreeing with the end results of things and and at times, um, that that will lead them to want to dig into things that they may or may not understand. And I commend folks who work at district offices around the state because usually what happens is if someone goes over the head of the, um the principals and school administrators, they will direct them back. And then, at some point, the folks who have questions will actually have a conversation with the folks who are the key players. So, um, Bobby's exactly right in this situation. My hope would be that our state legislators and I don't believe I honestly don't believe there are bad people, and I hope they don't believe we're bad people. I I think just at some point people get misinformed and they and they run with things. But my hope is that at some point they will sit with us. And and I know there have been correspondence, but they will sit with us, um, along with the association staff. And we can all because I think we're all trying to get after the right things. We want to do what's best for the state of North Carolina now. So, um, that's my hope. But as far as talking to other principals and school administrators were used to this this type of scrutiny and and But we we also stay focused on trying to do the right things. Oh, and, uh, James, if you will let me, I would also say to principles, um, the members of the board of directors represent you, and each member of the border directors is regionally located. They serve the same roles that we have principles on our board. Uh, we have superintendents. We have athletic directors who also our coaches. And so I would hope that our principles would reach out to their various board members and ask those questions before they go to the legislators who we know have other things that they are doing should be doing need to be doing as opposed to knowing what is going on with the High School Athletic Association. So I would just encourage anybody remember principles to reach out to your board. Members, uh, call us as the bylaws state in our handbook. The principle is the voting is the constituted authority for each member school. And what that means is the principal has the right to ask questions, has the right to see information, and any principal who has ever called and ask for something has not been denied from this office. So I encourage our principles. I know where it's a new day. And like I said, I've been around now for almost 30 years. So many of the principles who are now sitting in those seats may not have the same understanding and degree of comfort with the NCHS A. But I would encourage you to read that, read the articles of incorporation, read the bylaws and see what your role is and how you can be more involved in asking questions and getting the answers that, as a principal, you have a right to have. All right, thank you all for your comments. There we go to a question for Mr Simmons or Commissioner Tucker or Bobby. There are any of you. Um, he he asked about your feeling when the association sets a rule by the board, they set a penalty and then enforce that penalty. The penalties obviously originate from Chapel Hill and then do not provide press release or information on the situation and tells media that they have to go to the penalized school for information. Uh, he asked, should it not be common practice for the association to comment on its own rules application of those rules, especially if decision impacts with the ripple effect other parts of the state. Well, I think I know what this means is oftentimes we get a call from the media wanting to know what the penalty is. Um, and sometimes they we get those calls prior to the member schools, even having received the penalty. And so certainly we're not going to do that. Remember, the N C. H. S. A is a membership driven organization, and our responsibility is to the membership. It is never our protocol to put the business of a member out to anyone. Uh, If a member says to us, we know we messed up. Let's just use this as an example. We know we violated the rule, Uh, and we know that the media is going to call Go ahead and put it out there then certainly we would respond in that way. But most school systems have communication or public relations personnel, and it is their job to put the information out the way that school system wants the information to get out to the media. And so we operate differently than the colleges and universities do. I know how they work. They will put that information out there. But remember, we're education based athletics. We're trying to teach lessons to young people about how to be and how to do once you get out into the real world, in the working world, in the in the college world, and so we try to teach things differently. And so for us to give the media that information without the permission of the member school, it's not something that I plan to change unless I'm directed by our board or I'm directed by the membership. Jerry, Bobby, Anything. What I had there, I'll just say I mean, leaving as a person leading a school. I actually appreciate the opportunity to tell our own story, because what happened is anything that cure the staff with the issue from the state level about a member school. It would be they would just get into two very vague information. They couldn't give details we're still talking about and in many cases, something, um that that will will go directly back to to a teenager. Um, so we can't give out that type of detail, but it would. It would cause people to start speculating so allowing schools to craft their own statement, schools and school districts to put together their own statement and and talk with their own, um, parents and and and coaches and such, um, Prior to put out that statement. I appreciate that opportunity, and I would I would venture to say most principles, um, and and athletic directors appreciate that opportunity. So, no, we have no intention on on doing anything different. Next, we'll, uh, answer one more question from Nick Stevens. Are you aware of any forthcoming legislation in the General Assembly related to issues legislators have raised you? I'll leave that one to you? Uh, no. We have some consultants, uh, in the who help us with knowing when legislation is going to be forthcoming. I was made aware of a bill. I think that has been filed that deals with, uh, uh, interscholastic athletics. And it tied to that is the military, uh, schools and military students being able to participate, Uh, and let me just say this we have all of our rules are designed to work with our military schools such as, um, luxury in high school. Uh, and we have a great working relationship with with Deputy Bryant, who is the athletics director there. And so we worked diligently to make sure that our students have the opportunity if they are from a military situation. Fort Bragg has students who are enrolled in the school's in Cumberland County. But keep in mind now that the NCHS A can't go into a school system. So if Cumberland County has rules and regulations for its military schools, as long as they're not less than our rules and regulations, then their rules with supersedes, so sometimes it doesn't. You know, folks don't understand how that works, but, uh, that's really the only piece of legislation that I am aware of. I heard about that last night. Uh, just, uh, a bill, perhaps that has been filed, uh, to look at interscholastic athletics. And as I was reading through it so much was, um, you know, had strike throughs that I had a little bit of trouble trying to follow that, but we'll continue to monitor that to see, um you know what comes of that And where that leads? Uh, next we'll go to, uh, another James Alderson. This is not me. On a burner account, tweeted are asking these questions, but J. Albertson from 4 85 sports over in the car Annapolis Charlotte area. Um, with the easing restrictions as the association considered allowing sports teams like baseball, softball, doll, tennis, lacrosse and track to have more competitions than the allowed 14 this year. Well, no. I bought the directors, had had a meeting yesterday. We started at nine. Yesterday morning, and, uh, one of the things that you want to keep in mind When the When the board approved a calendar last August, that calendar was published. Uh, it was sent out to the membership and Not only did the membership see it, but parents saw it. And as a result of that, people made plans based upon what that calendar was and continues to be. And, yes, we know that some of the spectator limits have been increased. We know that there has been some easing of restrictions, but let me assure you that we are not over. Uh, you know, this pandemic, we are still dealing with it. And so I think our board has looked at everything we've done and what we've had in place and have essentially said, We need to stay the course with all of this. And if you're talking about equity and all of those things to now, increase the number of gangs, uh, that the teams that are upcoming would have an opportunity to participate, uh would really be unfair to some of the other sports that have had to deal with what we have just concluded. Such as in basketball. We're in football right now. So where do you draw that line? Do you say Okay, football? You have seven games during the regular season. Well, we're we've decided. Now we're going to let you have nine game. So how do you jump back in and reschedule, then? Where does that put your state championship? Football can only play one game per week. So there are a lot of dominoes that would start to fall if the board were to start thinking about increasing that number. And I think it is still incumbent upon us based upon on what I understand, coming out of the H H s coming out of the governor, the governor's offices, that we still must do our part to mitigate the spread. And I can tell you guys, I talked to an athletic director yesterday who had just gotten out of the hospital. He had been in the hospital seven weeks from Covid, and he is still struggling. So we still have people who are struggling with this virus. They are getting it every day, so it's not going away. And so we don't want to just rush out, throw caution to the wind and start to do things that would put our young people in danger. And I know some people will say, Well, the students don't get it as as quickly as others. We understand that, but we also understand that we don't want our young people to be exposed to someone, and then they go home to Grandma Grandpa, who maybe has a condition that would allow them to contract the virus. The vaccine program has now been ramped up, and it is working, and I think we stay the course. And once all of North Carolina has received the vaccine or getting close to being a vaccine, um, state, so to speak, then I think you know, our board is wise to continue what what they have done. And there was no indication yesterday in that meeting that we needed to change the number of contests that are allowed for the remaining sports. Okay, uh next question. Bryan Hanks asked, What's the formula for the grants? The NCHS A awards. We do have a separate grant program. I'm not sure if Brian's referring specifically to the $4 million dispersement from the endowment, or if if he's referring to the NCHS a grant program itself. There are two different programs for that. So, Commissioner Tucker, I'll allow you to talk today. Well, the grant program. Actually, we had the idea to start a grant program back, and when Davis Whitfield was was a was the commissioner, and we that was we had the recession. And, uh so the board said, You know what? We've got to scrap this idea for right now. Let's we'll wait because we don't want to do anything that will jeopardize us not being able to sustain being able to sustain a grant program. So last year, uh, staff came before the board a year before last. So we're entering our second year of the grant program. And the way that program works is that we tell our schools about the program. We allow them to share what their needs are and obviously a component. Or there are several components, uh, needs that would address not just one team, but would be across the spectrum of their sports program. Uh, it would be designed educational. It could be material, um, whatever that would be. And then they would write that up in the application for the grant. And then we have an external committee that then reviews those grants. And unless it is something that, uh, falls in the purview of, let's say, the county commissioners putting lights on the field, I can tell you that we had some requests to light certain fields. Obviously, that is not the reason for the grant. Um, but we I think we helped by some lawn mowers last year. But again, it's the school is in charge of saying to us here our needs. And then that committee reviews those makes recommendation. And either they are fully funded at the amount of school requests or they receive partial, um, funding for the that, um, request. So it's not a formula. It really is open for any of the schools to submit their request for help. But if it's the $4 million coded subsidy that there is a specific formula for that well, yes. Then let me let me share with you what that formula for caps was, um so caps, uh, if the as Jerry mentioned, all of our schools have received their first check, and that was based on what membership dues would be. And there was an I S P multiplier put in place by the subcommittee of the board that came up with that. The second check that schools would receive will be the remaining monies from the $4 million it will be split buy shares. So it will be based on the number of varsity teams a school fielded this school year and the number of JV teams that this school fielded during the school year. So it will it and that money will be a shared amount. So we have some schools that have not played any sports, so their share will be less if not zero. Um, hopefully some of the schools with the orders that came down yesterday, some of them may get back in and decide that they are going to offer some programs, uh, for the remainder of the school year. But if a school did not field any sports, then obviously there would not be any funds going to that school. Hopefully that answered that question, and I'd like to James, if I could circle back to I believe it was Chris Hobbs, who asked about the salaries. How much money per year is for salaries? It's 1.2 to $1.3 million. Now that's just not salaries alone. That's the 41 K. That's the insurance that Social Security. So when you add all of that up with our employees, um That's the range of the salaries 1.2 up to $1.3 million. And keep in mind that the operating or the budget the annual budget of the association is typically a little less than $5 million. Okay, we do have one more question, and this will be the last one for the day. I know we got to get, uh, President Simmons and Vice President Wilkins back to, uh, being principles of their respective schools, and we appreciate their time today. But from Nick Stevens, just a question of clarification. Is it possible to explain the authority given to the association by the State Board of Education and Department of Public Instruction? How is that relationship set up? Well, Nick, uh, years ago, and and obviously, you know, there is a history to the High School Athletic Association and back when, uh, and once the once covid is over and we can have people in our building again, I'll invite some of you to come and look at all of the handbooks we have. James has those on a bookshelf in his office. They go all the way back to when this association began and their hand books that are very, very thin compared to what we have today. But when the association began, it began through the University of North Carolina. That's the relationship. That's why Chapel Hill, uh, is, I guess, near and dear to the heart of the High School Athletic Association is because we grew out of the university. We were housed on the campus. We started out in a trailer and then moved into, uh, one of the buildings on campus and then, uh, in the forties, the university said. And and the and the operations were taken care of expense wise by the university. Well, in the forties, the university said, You know what? You guys need to divest yourselves, go out and set up your own organization. And so principals and superintendents said, Well, you know, that's really what we ought to do. So in the seventies, the the State Board of Education and the Department of Public Instruction actually had something that's called articles of Interscholastic Athletics and back then, uh, Nick. There the association had a constitution, but in the seventies, all of that changed when the association decided that it needed to formally incorporate Doctor Friday had said to the group back in the forties, Go out, do your own thing, set yourselves up. And so as time went on, uh, that Board of Control, as it was called back, then recognized that it would have more value and could do more if it truly became incorporated. So in 1978 the association became a five oh one C three organization, But even then, the association still answer to the extension division of the University of North Carolina. But at that point, the association started to carry its own weight. We paid into a trust fund with the university, and that relationship went on, and that set up lasted really until, um, 2010. But the State Board of Education. In their policies and procedures, it states that the North that schools can belong to the North Carolina High School Athletic Association, provided that the High School Athletic Association follows any rules set forth by the State Board of Education, and so that all came into existence well before even we were incorporated. And so even to this day neck, we still follow state board guidelines, especially as it relates to academics anytime the state board is going to change the academic structure, they let us know many of you remember back in the day when we used to be, uh, we were able to determine the eligibility of a student based only on its based on its yearlong grades or based on the semester, whichever suited the student. Well, some years ago. It's probably been 20 years ago, State Board said. You know what? We're moving now to a different form of educational structure. We're now in the semester mode, so we need to change that you're eligible based on what you did the previous semester. So that change, but that came down from the state board. State Board has an age rule. Uh, state board says, Hey, everybody must have a physical exam. So there are those rules that the State Board has in place that we must follow. We don't deviate if we're thinking about something that needs to change, or we can offer those suggestions. So there is a great work working relationship with the state board. Uh, and the Department of Public Instruction has a person who is an affiliate member of our board. We are fortunate this time that we do actually have a state Board of Education member who is also an affiliate member of this board of directors because he was, he was representing the School Boards Association. So we have liaisons or we have affiliate members of the board. They represent those entities Department of Public Instruction as well as State Board of Education, as well as the North Carolina School Boards Association. So we have never stepped outside of recognizing where we get our governance. We do not pretend to be the be all and end all to anything that we do. We understand that we must follow those guidelines, and so that relationship has existed and it continues in existence to this day. And so, as we continue to address and hear from our legislators, it is my hope that the state Board of Education will step out and say Here is what the North Carolina High School Athletic Association is allowed to do as it works on our behalf. So it's not like we're just trying to do things on our own. Our staff comes to work every day, understanding that we represent the 421 member schools and we understand that our board of directors ultimately have that authority to say yea or nay and even when we make decisions as a staff which is given as the commissioner, I have the authority to make those day to day decisions as it relates to those rules and regulations. But there is an appeal process in place that allows a member school who believes that I have interpreted a rule incorrectly to be able to appeal that. And yes, there have been times when those that appellate process has changed the ruling we've made, which is fine because that's the way it ought to work. That's the way it works in our court systems and so we're not any different and so we certainly understand that. But again, the bottom line Nick is we have a relationship. We continue to do so and we hope that that relationship will last for years to come. With that, I will conclude today's press conference and certainly thank all of you that we're able to attend today, also on behalf of the media I know of. Several have already reached out expressing their thanks to Commissioner Tucker and President Simmons and Vice President Wilkins for their time today in answering their questions. And so we certainly do. Thank you all for that. Um, and I want to say thank you to each of you for your coverage of high school athletics and the, uh, particularly when you go at it from a fair perspective and give us an opportunity to tell our side of the story we do. Thank you for that. As you have done, uh, today. So we thank you. And if you have any questions, feel free to reach out. We will have some press conference or some press releases coming out later this afternoon about lacrosse and soccer playoffs, as well as some decisions by the board of the Records yesterday. So with that, we'll close things and say thank you very much and we'll talk to you again. Some? Yeah. Yeah.