Much humanity, in a piece of sound you just played, you see the anguish on her face and you hear it in her voice. Yeah, again, like i said, she is very good in unscripted settings. I think it is pretty clear at this point, and so, i think it is great to see her in those settings. Thank you, my friend. So, when joe biden first dropped out of the presidential race, the earliest signs we saw of enthusiasm for kamala harris, the first indications that she might change the fundamental dynamics of this race were these headlines. Tens of thousands of black women mobilize to support kamala harris. We were built for this moment, black women rally around harris. When we vote, we make history. Black female leaders rally around kamala harris. Very same day that president biden announced he was withdrawing from the race, a group called women with black women held an organizing call that was quickly flooded with support. 40,000 people logged on, putting the online meeting at capacity. While another 50,000 streamed the event from other platforms. Now tonight, that same group, win with black women, is holding another major event for kamala harris, this time with the help of one of her most powerful surrogates. Let's all choose kamala harris! tonight, just before we got on the air, tens of thousands of kamala harris supporters logged onto an online rally with oprah winfrey and kamala harris, including some very high profile supporters. There is brian cranston. Hey, brian. Hey, hello, hello. Chris wagner is in the house. [ cheers and applause ] a ben stiller, jennifer lopez, tracy ellis ross. Julia roberts, where are you? [ cheers and applause ] and miss meryl streep is in the house. [ cheers and applause ] vice president harris took questions from audience members and from oprah winfrey herself. It seems to us that something happened to you the moment joe biden, president biden, stepped aside and withdrew his candidacy, that a veil or something dropped and you just stepped into your power. [ cheers and applause ] you know, we each have those moments in our lives where it is time to step up. So, i felt a great responsibility, and the incredible power of the people, right? i am not the only leader in this, we are all leaders in this, this is so much bigger than me. The reason that events like this are so important is because black voters and in particular, black women voters, are the key to a potential future kamala harris of victory. Here is how it went with a black women's ed put it when she was talking about how all of this came together. What we knew is that it was a moment in our country to show what black women have always done. I just think that it is an honor for all of us to be able to usher in this moment, knowing that those who worked this mighty field are now allowing us to eat the fruit. For decades, black women have been the backbone of the democratic coalition. Their support helped propel joe biden to the democratic nomination in 2020, then helped put him over the finish line in key swing states like georgia during the general election. But for most of this year, there have been warning signs that democrats support from black voters was slipping. That all began to change when democrats switched their ticket. Created its first political action committee to get involved in this year's election, while others have begun organizing get out the vote efforts, including new ads in swing states like pennsylvania, ones that are targeting black voters. A child born today may have fewer rights than her mother and her grandmother. Right now, those hardearned rights are being threatened. The right to vote. The right to choose. Even the right to learn our history. Now it's up to us to stand up. Organize and use our power, our right to vote. It only takes one person to change the world. Imagine what we can do together. You can see this enthusiasm in the polling. A new howard university poll of black voters in swing states finds kamala harris winning 82% of black voters. In arizona, georgia, michigan, nevada, north carolina, pennsylvania, and wisconsin. Donald trump, on the other hand, gets only 12% of black votes. Harris's numbers are close to biden's share of the black vote in the same battleground states in the 2020 election, suggesting that harris has gained back most of the ground lost by black voters since then, most but not all. While this new polling shows vice president harris getting overwhelming support from nearly every subgroup of black voters, there is one group proving harder to win over. Young black men. According to this new poll, more than one in five black men over the age of 50 support donald trump for president. And when you look specifically at black men under 50 without college degrees, then support for trump rises to more than one in four black men. So, that may be why kamala harris told the national association of black journalists this week that she isn't taking black men and their votes for granted. I think it is very important to not operate from the assumption that black men are in anybody's pocket. Black men are like any other voting group. You've got to earn their vote. So, i am working to own the vote. Not assuming i am going to have it because i am black. But because the policies and the perspective that i have understands what we must do to recognize the needs of all communities, and i intend to be a president for all people. Joining me now is melissa murray, the cohost of an upcoming special here on msnbc call black women in america: the road to 2024, airing september 29th. Also with me is charles coleman, writer for slate and cohost of an earlier msnbc special call black men in america: the road to 2024. It's great to have two people who have been on the road talking to voters about the exact topics we need to go into tonight. First, let me start with your reaction to this oprah event that i believe is still going or just wrapping up, melissa. I understand the inclination to do an event with oprah. If oprah called me, it wouldn't matter what it was about, i would go do it with her. Certainly there were a lot of stars lined up in this event. I do wonder, though, in terms of drumming up enthusiasm where she most needs it, do you think oprah makes a difference? x i'm just going to say, i think it is a real missed opportunity if oprah doesn't tell every woman in the crowd to look under her seat, because you get a democracy, you get a democracy, missed opportunity. I don't know if oprah is going to play well with the demographic of young black men who are perhaps skeptical or maybe trump curious, but i do think it is clear that there is support within the black community, and that could be very important in translating to young black men like their mothers, their grandmothers, everyone in the community is behind this, maybe there is a reason for that and maybe i should investigate or interrogate why i am not quite in line yet. Can you expand on that, charles? is that the sort of family dynamics, the matriarchy coming together and saying, you will vote for kamala harris, young black men in my family? it does exist, and in quite simple terms, that may be part of the problem. Because of the conversation and the way it is being had. There are a number of black men who i spoke to in the course of filming black men in america: the road to 2024, who expressed part of the issue they are having is the way the people are talking to them about their vote. As opposed to having conversations with them, a lot of black men have expressed feeling like folks are talking at them and castigating them for having questions, having reservations, wanting to see some policy before they make a decision and commit. So, at the end of the day, you are still talking about men. So, there is a feeling in some respects of hold on, who are you talking to like that? you can't shame me to the polls, that is not an effective strategy. And you can see that in her response at the conference when she said i don't take them for granted, i know i need to earn it. That seems like she is reading from what you are reading from, which is don't tell people they have to vote for me, don't shame them into it, i got to earn it. Give me a reason why. I think the problem with democratic messaging for some people has been you have been selling me a vision of a less last. A meeting that i have survived donald trump once and now you're telling me this is going to be worst, but at the same time, you tell me the same thing about george bush and ronald reagan and i'm still here. I'm not saying it is valid, but i'm saying that if for example i am a black male who has only seen the implement rate in this country be surpassed by native american men and no other demographic, selling me a vision of less last is not necessarily the best way to go. But again, i think one of the things that we saw when we went around the country talking to black women, it is not just black men have questions, black women also have questions. Women of my age and older are solidly in that camp, and they were even before the switch. We have talked to women who said i would vote for joe biden's desiccated bodies it comes to that. But these younger women have questions. One of the things that was really interesting to me as i thought about questions of police brutality. What has the biden administration done around police brutality? in fact, the biden administration has done a lot. One of the most historic executive orders, putting money into policing and police accountability. We don't really talk about that on the media because we have spent the last year covering january 6th and trump's trials and whatnot. And police brutality, the appalling footage of police brutality continues to be generated, independent of the biden administration. Here is another part of it, i think it is the same with black men, it occurred to me that this is the generation of people who grew up in schools after no child left behind, so they grew up in an educational system where we are interested in music and pe and civic education, so they may not understand as clearly as other people in the media and law and whatnot that the president has very limited power over the 18,000 police departments in the country, that is a municipality and a locality issue. Part of this, they want to see change, but they're looking to the president, and maybe that is not the person who is going to do this. So, we really have to think about the way in which our electorate is being educated, what it means downstream, because this isn't just about black men. I think we are going to see this further down the line with lots of grits. And when you account for the educational divide, that is where you're seeing it. I've got to say, though, the positive case for voting for harris, then there is also the case for voting for harris as an antidote for trumpet and i have got to wonder what you guys think of the rhetoric directed at springfield, ohio. It is something oprah winfrey brought up this evening a few minutes ago, i think we have the clip if we could play it for you guys, you can hear how she is framing it. Ever since the debate, we feel for our fellow citizens in springfield. Do not think about the fellow citizens in springfield, ohio? the haitian families, the non haitian families, everybody having to deal with this lie that has endangered the lives of haitian people and anybody who looks haitian. Everybody in america feels for that. Okay, the key part of that, i think, is everybody having to deal with this lie that has endangered the lives of haitian people and anybody who looks haitian. We have the chair of the local naacp chapter on yesterday, charles, and she was saying how her grandchildren can't go to school, she is worried about them, they are not haitian, they're black. And i've got to wonder, one of the areas where [ inaudible ] integration and the economy. Talk about immigration for a second when you hear his rhetoric around immigration, when you hear how he is vilifying people of color in the united states, they could be haitian, they could just be black, is that not a deterrent? do you think that that matters? in your experience, granted, this is before any of the springfield stuff came up, but is that the kind of stuff that is going to penetrate young black men and their sort of information bubble? i think the notion of donald trump as someone who is a racist is not something that is new or foreign to young black male voters but i think with respect to what we are seeing in springfield, it needs to be framed more broadly and it needs to be framed under the appellate of white nationalism. And the reason for that is because racism is one lane, but when you're talking about white nationalism, now you invite xenophobia, you invite other things into the picture to other other people. And the reason why that becomes critical is because it is not just a conversation that black people or haitian people or people who are dark skinned dominicans are dark skinned humans need to be worried about, it is a conversation that if you're not a wealthy, straight am a white male, you can be altered under this notion of white nationalism, because it is a virus that spreads and it is a virus that donald trump has no problem unleashing, along with jd vance, on the entire electorate. And because of that, you have to expand the framing, so that people understand, this is not just a racial issue that extends to people who might appear to be haitian in some way, this is something that potentially has the ability to affect all of us who can be altered. The white nationalism frame also encompasses some of the issues that harris is really going on, like abortion. One of the things that really hasn't been talked about enough is the way in which this antiabortion rhetoric is also accompanied by replacement theory but there is a reason why you want to stop women from terminating their pregnancies, certain women, and there is a recent why you are fine with certain women like amber thurman bleeding out in parking lots. And so, the worst effects of these abortion bans are going to be visited on poor women, women of color, we are seeing that. And it is now that it is also spreading to women who look like random suburban moms, and now it is becoming a real issue, but it has always been an issue for women of color, and she has made that very clear. And i think adjoining it to this broader message white nationalism makes both of these issues, and there is a real choice here. Is also aided by the fact that there are neonazi's marching in springfield, when you talk about white supremacy, and they're talking about the great replacement theory is now a former republican orthodoxy, so the data points are there, it's just people maybe connecting them to the candidates. Melissa murray, charles coleman, two people on the road to know more about this than i do, thank you for joining me tonight, really appreciate it. Coming up, trump lackey and senator lindsey graham makes a secret trip to the state of nebraska to try and convince republicans to change the way the state awards its electoral votes. I wonder who sent him. At first, the republican candidate for governor in north carolina refers to himself as a black nazi on a porn website and he has no intention of leaving the race. That is next. [ music ] subject 1: who's coming in the driveway? subject 2: dad! dad, we missed you! daddy, hi! subject 3: i missed you. My daughter is being treated for leukemia. 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And i quote, i am a black nazi, slavery is not bad, some people need to be slaves, i wish they would bring slavery back, i would certainly buy a few. That is alleged commentary from mark robinson, the current republican candidate for governor in the key swing state of north carolina and an ally for donald trump. According to reporting from cnn today, robinson, under the username mini soldier, wrote these and plenty of other comments on a porn site called nude africa between the years 2008 and 2012. While endorsing slavery and cosigning [ inaudible ], he is no stranger to shocking, hateful commentary on topics ranging from abortion to the holocaust to the lgbtq+ community. Robinson today vehemently denied that he posted these comments, and insists he will not exit the governor's race. Is not us, these are not our words, and this is not anything that is characteristic of me, nor has it ever been. How do you explain all the matching details on this profile, the profile on nude africa, lists your full name is mark robinson. The email listed on the account is an email you have used elsewhere on the internet, including with your photo. I am not going to get into how somebody manufactured these lives, but i can tell you this, there has been over $1 million spent on me through a i buy a billionaire who is bound and determined to destroy me. Joining me now is sam stein, an msnbc contributor. Sam, it was all a. I. That did it. I just want to remind everybody at home that these are posts from 2008 to 2012, which was really the prea. I. Area, and mini soldier is his official hand on pinterest, youtube, and twitter. What you make of his excuse thus far. It's remarkable how advanced a. I. Has become, that it could take 15yearold internet postings and what they want with them. No, it's ridiculous, this whole thing is ridiculous. I am glad i could come on to talk about nude africa. This is ridiculous, and the way it is kind of insulting to the constituents of north carolina, specifically the republican once, that mark robinson believes he can survive this. No one really thinks he is going to win the governor's race. But the idea that this type of article would come up and he would not have introspection and say maybe i am not the best person, really suggests that he thinks the constituents of north carolina and the republican party primarily, can be duped, can be suckered, can be told that in fact everything in front of them is not real, that it is generated by a. I. And they should not believe the compelling evidence of sort of grotesque, insensitive statements and behavior. And so, you know, that is just the reality we live in these days, but i guess this is the sad sort of trump era politics, where you can just plow forward through the most hellacious of scandals. Yeah, and i think that maybe it most appalling part about it is his compilation might be right. I mean, the north carolina republican party is standing by at mark robinson, a man, who as you point out, is eight points behind in this race. And i am not even saying it would be understandable if he is neck and neck, but the fact that they have every reason to get this man out of the race and are choosing not to tells you about as much as the north republican party as it does about mark robinson. My question to you is do you think any of this relates to donald trump, who is a mark robinson ally, who has said he thinks mark robinson is better than martin luther king. I think you are martin luther king times two. Do you think the stench of the scandal walks over to donald trump or no? well, first off, the fact that he compared him to martin luther king, we now know that mark robinson probably took that as an insult, given his history of posting insulting things in the past about martin luther king. In terms of what you're saying, obviously it doesn't help. You want someone running for governor who can maybe bring in some people that you are depending on. Usually, it is the top of the ticket. Obviously that gives benefits down ballot. Mark robinson would benefit from trump in this case, but i talked to a couple republicans in north carolina today for a piece, they said this is a huge trend distraction. He cannot go into the estate and appear with mark robinson anymore. He is going to be asked why he was so effusive in his praise of this guy, did they not that in? if you are a republican in with any sort of sanity and introspection, he will say is this really the ticket of republicans that i want? are these the elected officials i want to elevate? so, i don't know if it is going to have a huge impact on donald trump, but keep in mind, this is the state that harasses people at continuously said, it's the kind of main prize for clipping, more so almost in georgia. This is already bound to be a very close state and this does not help in the slightest for trump. Yeah, really good point, it makes alanna sarabia kryptonite for trump, because if he goes there, he is going to have to talk about the site nude africa. Just to be clear, not my words, mark robinson's alleged words. Sam, i forgot to ask you, put on your sherlock holmes hat for a moment. The timing on all of this is very interesting, is it not? i mean, this is the deadline for mark robinson to stay on the ballot or have his name removed, and this is breaking right now. Now, that is not to diminish the excellent k file reporting that i know went into this, but does this lack a little opposition research to you, from the democratic candidate? so, no. I thought about this, too. I don't think democrats first of all, andrew kaczynski is an amazing reporter, i think this was not opposition research. That is my theory. Before i knew it was andrew, i did have this exact thought. Then i was thinking, i talked to a couple democrats up i in national politics, close to the harris campaign, and they're all sort of like despondent. They're like, why is this coming out on september 19? we need it on october 19th. They wanted much further. Republicans, look, it is infuriating, if you're a republican, you wanted robinson to leave, this would be the time to do it. But the truth is this is way too late. Even if he were to leave, there would be a huge swath of people. First of all, he is going to fight it, he is fighting it. There would also be a huge swath of electric who feels like you cannot abandon these people, that you have to fight any accusation level by the mainstream media, because that is a given, the mere act of giving in his political defeat in and of itself. So, we are at this place where republicans cannot quit races, where they cannot step aside, because that would just press depress the basis so much. No matter how repellent the candidate is, you stand by your man. Even when you have to say the words black nazi over and over again. Sam stein, thank you for your reporting and analysis and your time. Thank you for saying nude africa. Any time. Coming up, why did lindsey graham make a secret trip to nebraska? it is like 2020 all over again. We will get to that. Buffers, another day, another round of polls. This one showing kamala harris leading in key swing states. We are going to have more on that, that is next. [ music ] next. [ music ] [cough] honey. . . Honey. Nyquil severe honey. Powerful cold and flu relief with a dreamy honey taste nyquil honey, philip: when your kid is hurting and there's nothing you can do about it, that's the worst feeling in the world. Kristen: i don't think anybody ever expects to hear that their child has cancer. 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Singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ kamala harris's performance at last week's debate is beginning to move the polls. We are now seeing slow but steady movement in the key states harris needs to win. In pennsylvania, three recent polls show harris leading trump. She is up by three, up by six, and up by four points, leads that are outside of the margin of error in two of those polls. Another very interesting data point comes from pulling on how kamala harris's approval rating has changed in pennsylvania. The new york times today found that harasses favorability in the state has risen to 51%, which is up nine points since the last survey in early july. Joining me now is our campaign manager for bernie sanders' presidential campaign, he is also the founder and executive director of more perfect union. It is always great to hear from you. And i wonder, as a campaign expert whether you can unpack the sort of golf that exists between people liking kamala harris, or favorability going up, but that not translating directly into a greater share of the vote. I mean, how do you explain people who are in significant numbers saying i like her, but also not saying i can vote for her. She is newer to a lot of people, and you know, she is coming onto the scene unless defined around her policies. The upshot around all that, alex, is the room for growth and for her is greater than donald trump spit majority of people have already decided that trump isn't for them, so he has to count on dispiriting a number of voters to vote thirdparty to skip the presidential line, and you can count on him and his campaign trying to engage in those nefarious actions down the home stretch. For kamala harris, she is continuing to hopefully reach people on the number one thing that is on their mind, and that is the economy. Particularly for the people that are going to come on late, and i think the narrative of what are her values is still probably the least a fine for her. I even listened to your first segment of young black voters, probably they know the least about her and the least about her values. The opportunity is there for her, but she has to tell a story about what is it that animates you, why do you want government power so much? just unpack that a little bit further, does that suggest that the undecideds are basically people are saying they like kamala harris, they don't know if they can vote for her, it is really all about what harris says in the closing weeks of this campaign. Basically the onus is on her to close the sale. It is not really about donald trump at this point, because we already like kamala harris, which suggests they don't like the donald trump and they're not even necessarily considering him at this point. I think that is correct to a degree, and how she talks about herself. It is not that she needs to tell more people she lived a middleclass life, i'm not arguing that, and she has done that well enough to this point. I think it is more about her reflecting that i know your life. I know the struggles you're going through, i know the pains that you're dealing with. I know the economic insecurity and lack of freedoms that you feel, i am aware of all those things, and i can contrast that with a person who i know it doesn't get your life, that is donald trump, he fights for the wealthy. Most people know, the vast majority is, that donald trump stands for the wealthy. You have got that working to your advantage. Now, you have got to show that you stand with the people and you know and understand their lives. I don't expect that you are going to solve their problems immediately, but the opportunities are right for her. You have boeing workers on strike, what are they striking about? the lack of economic freedom, 16 years, i did get a pay raise. You have got uaw workers about to go on strike again stellantis. You have& workers about to go on strike. Automation is taking our jobs. Much has been said about the teamsters. A few days ago, amazon workers said we want to organize, because we are drivers, we are being exploited. If you can access and talk about those conditions of the economy, i think opportunities of growth for her are huge. I will say, the pulling on her being a trusted steward of the economy is getting better and better and better. I believe she is caught up to trump and maybe even surpassed them on the question, who do you trust most to handle the economy? i mean, do you owe that to harris just being out there more? do you credit that to the argument she was making, which is very much what you're talking about, looking to the camera and saying i'm fighting for you, he is fighting for himself during the presidential debate, what do you attribute that to? the convention did a great job of introducing her, you saw it during the course of the convention, the choices of how they were going to frame the structural successes of her record, particularly as a prosecutor. I have prosecuted and fought for working people like yourself and the choices of the types of people across the ideological spectrum to vouch for her. That is one, and two, if you look at the ads that are running the number one and i was looking at the other day is about price gouging. I know that you are feeling hurt and in pain, i have a plan about going after corporations that are jacking up prices on you, i'm going to go after corporate predator landlords, i am going to reduce the cost. That is a lot of work for her to introduce her policy agenda as well. Faiz, does she need to do more media? i guess part of the frustration for a lot of democrats is that donald trump has no plan, other than maybe a tax cut for billionaires and terrorists that would raise taxes on americans all over the country. And yet, harris is being told that she needs to put more meat on the bone and they need to know more and see more. Where does she need to display that? you talk about striking workers, and even if she went to march on the picket line, as she has, would that make the difference? i guess, how do you get the information out at this point? is it sitdown interviews? she just did an event with oprah winfrey online. It is hard to understand where those inflection points are in the last 45 days of this race. Yeah, and i obviously am not going to argue against her doing more media, i think she is good at it, i trust the principal in her and i think she would do great in those settings. But even if you weren't going to do more media events, i think it is getting her into more settings in which she is interacting with real people. Where you're getting a flavor of her values that are better showcased than at a rally and often a teleprompter. I think seeing her humanity, seeing her values, seeing how she expresses the ability to connect with people and understand the lives they are going through, that to me is much more vital, and you can do that and a lot of different settings, whether a town hall or just going and interacting with regular workers in different settings. I can imagine that you could get creative with this, and you can also get creative on the platforms, tiktok, however you put those things together. That to me is much more critical and the media interviews could solve that as well, but i would focus more on just making sure that she is being able to connect with real people and documenting and showing that in animated and interesting ways. In the world, in america. Faiz, thank you. A wealth of information, thank you for joining me tonight, my friend. Thank you, alex. Still to come, republican senator lindsey graham of south carolina turned up in the state of nebraska yesterday on a quest that if it works, could hand the electoral college to donald trump. We will explain, coming up next. [ music ] [ music ] subject 1: who's coming in the driveway? subject 2: dad! dad, we missed you! daddy, hi! subject 3: i missed you. My daughter is being treated for leukemia. Subject 2: mom, mom, mom, mom. 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No matter where life takes you, biktarvy can go with you. Talk to your healthcare provider today. To the governor's mansion now, where the only media outlet was posted outside of state lawmakers along with south carolina senator lindsey graham came together for a conversation regarding winner take all. We are told graham was trying to drum up support to change the way alaska hands at its electoral college votes. Hold up. What was a republican senator from south carolina doing in nebraska yesterday? missing votes in the senate to speak with the nebraska state legislature about how their state allocates its electoral college votes? well, to understand you have to zoom out a little bit. Almost every state in the country uses a winner takes all system to distribute its electoral votes. If you in california you get all of california's electoral votes. If you in texas, you get all of texas's electoral votes. The exceptions are the state of maine and nebraska. They split their electoral votes. For example, in 2020 donald trump one most of nebraska, but joe biden still walked away with one electoral vote from the state and joe biden one most of maine, but donald trump still got one of that states electoral votes. Cut to 2024 and the selection is so close, it is so close that those single electoral votes could be the margin that decides the whole race. If she were to hold those three states, wisconsin, michigan and pennsylvania, there you go. Exactly 270 electoral votes. This would require her by the way to hang on to that one congressional district around omaha, nebraska. Okay, maine is a reliably blue state and nebraska is a reliably red state, so historically they have balanced each other out, you get one from here and one from here, but it seems like south carolina senator lindsey graham wants to change that. He wants the red state of nebraska to become winner take all and if he gets what he wants then donald trump would have an edge. An edge that would come too late for the state of maine to do anything about. For the state of maine for example to change the way it allocates its electoral votes and make that winner take all. Why is it too late? it is too late because yesterday was not just any random wednesday. Yesterday was 90 days until december 17, which is the day that all of maine's electors cast their electoral votes. That is when the electoral college votes are actually locked in and in maine, a bill only becomes a law 90 days after it has passed, unless the bill gets two thirds in both chambers and democrats in the state don't have the votes to do that, so they have to abide by this deadline, 90 days. So if they want to make any changes to the electoral vote allocation, they have to do so by yesterday, which is 90 days to the day they certify those electoral votes. So lindsey graham and his republican friends and nebraska are essentially trying to pull a fast one, to change the rules of the electoral count in nebraska in a way that will benefit trump and to do so just late enough that democrats in maine can't respond by leveling the playing field. If this is all ringing a faint and distant belt you it might be because of what lindsey graham did in the year 2020. Before donald trump's infamous call telling georgia secretary of state to find him 12,000 votes to flip the results of the election, before that it was south carolina senator lindsey graham calling up the georgia secretary of state, brad raffensperger, pressuring him to toss certain mailin ballots that would give donald trump an edge. Now brad raffensperger did not bend to the attempts, but there is a pattern here, am i right? republican south carolina senator lindsey graham traveling the country, trying to make our elections less democratic. Lindsey graham knows that it is almost without question that vice president harris will win the popular vote in november and he knows that despite all the advantages the electoral college gives donald trump, that this race could very well be decided by a handful of electoral college votes. But rather than trying to actually convince people why they should vote for donald trump, lindsey graham is trying to disenfranchise them. What was your argument though about the idea of having nebraska be winner takes all? i think nebraska should not be the state that gives her the presidency. We discuss all that, coming up next. Up next. Right now across the u. S. , people are trying to ban books from public schools and public libraries. Yes, libraries. We all have a first amendment right to read and learn different viewpoints. That's why every book belongs on the shelf. Yet book banning in the u. S. Is worse than i've ever seen. It's people in power who want to control everything. Well, i say no to censorship. And i say yes to freedom of speech and expression. If you do too, please join us in supporting the american civil liberties union today. For over 100 years, the aclu has fought for your rights and mine. Including the right to read all manner of books. So please call or go online to myaclu. Org. For just $19 a month, only $0. 63 a day. You can become a guardian of liberty and help protect all the rights promised to us by the u. S. Constitution. Make no mistake, this move to ban books is a coordinated attack on students right to learn. This is a clear violation of free speech. That's why the aclu is working to fight against censorship in all its forms. It is so important now more than ever. So please call or go to myaclu. Org and become an aclu guardian of liberty, for just $19 a month. Use your credit card and you'll get this special we the people tshirt and more to show you're helping to protect the rights of all people. The aclu is in all 50 states, d. C. And puerto rico defending our first amendment right of free speech and all of your constitutional rights. Because we the people, means all of us. So please, call or, go online to myaclu. Org today. Craig here pays too much for verizon wireless. So please, call or, go online to so he sublet half his real estate office to a pet shop. There's a smarter way to save. Comcast business mobile. You could save up to an incredible 70% on your wireless bill. So you don't have to compromise. Powering smarter savings. Powering possibilities. Switch to comcast busines internet and mobile and find out how to get the latest 5g phone on us with a qualifying tradein. Don't wait! call, click or visit an xfinity store today. I went and talked to some senators and the governor. They asked me to come out to talk to the caucus, i guess that is what you call it about the state of play in the world and the consequences of the next election on a foreign policy front. That was senator lindsey graham, republican of south carolina this morning after a trip to the midwest to drum up support for a vote that would prevent the state of alaska from awarding one of its five electoral college votes to kamala harris. Joining me now is mark leibovich, staff writer at the atlantic's latest pieces called hypocrisy, spinelessness and the triumph of donald trump. Timely piece. First of all lindsey graham saying he went to nebraska to talk foreign policy, like why bother at this point? who among us hasn't? if you know one thing about lindsey graham he is a student of the nebraska legislative constitution. No, it is bizarre. Lindsey graham, you just covered this. The court case which could obviously have a huge impact on the selection. The personal aspect of lindsey graham and the trajectory he has been on over these years is that it always seems to fall on some errand boy tour he does down in georgia or nebraska like today and if you look at this, i mean it is just his bearing in that interview that you just showed, the clip, he just seems kind of defeated or confused or tired. It is not like a larger principal is guiding him or anything. He is kind of going all over the place, like this adhesive to the objectives of donald trump, wherever he sends him. I hate to use the word of the day, but it is just weird. You know lindsey graham as a creature of washington, not you, lindsey graham and it is just stunning to see the man who once called trump a race baiting xena phobic bigot, then did his bidding in the 2020 election to try to subvert democratic votes and is now doing this to try to change the way a state in the midwest allocates the electoral college. The shamelessness is staggering and goes to the piece in the atlantic where you talk about the way in which trump rolls over weaklings or aims to rollover politicians who trump considers saps and weaklings. I wonder now about the few holdouts in the state of nebraska who are almost certainly going to get calls from donald trump. Republicans in the state legislature who are standing between him and maybe one more electoral college vote. I would be surprised if they haven't already. When you get down to it we are talking about a few votes. There are some steadfast republicans in the legislature who are not committed to voting for this. It is the kind of thing where oldfashioned arm twisting and lobbying from nationally known politicians like lindsey graham and donald trump might be susceptible to this kind of thing. But again, if i am a citizen of south carolina i am thinking what is my senator doing here? put all that aside and it is just a strange role he continues to take on for himself and look if there is one thing we've seen about donald trump, he can seize on the weakness of individual politicians that he feels can roll over and in this case entire political parties from which lindsey graham, who at one point had a lot of principals and was seen as kind of an honest broker in these things, has been turned into a pile of jello on these things. I do wonder, though, you could see this coming from a mile away given the 2020 election. Of course republicans are trying to do this in nebraska. Does it surprise you that democrats have not been lobbying maine to make their state winner take all? it seems there is no plan on the left. From what i can tell there isn't and look, when you get down to it this is all legal, right? states control legislatures and parties that control legislatures can change laws and change constitutions. Every state has different laws. Maine could have done this and probably a whole separate group of people would've been credited for being savvy on all of this. Maybe this could have a massive difference in the course and trajectory of the nation's future, but hopefully it is just a sideshow that we will never speak of again. If we are talking about this on november 6, seven, eight, and nine, it is not good for the country. As fun as it is. Mark leibovich with the atlantic, thank you, my friend