thank you, ali, for that reporting. that does it for us today. see you back here tomorrow beginning at 10:00 a.m. you can catch our show online around the clock on youtube and other platforms. i'm ana cabrera from new york. andrea mitchell picks up our coverage. >> right now, fright night. the fight night that biden and trump campaigns are gearing up for. their first face off at this week's debate, but the candidates are taking very different approaches to their warm ups. on today's second anniversary of the dobbs decision, abortion is front and center along with the other debate topics the biden campaign is promoting. we look at what they're promoting and the trump campaign and the impact of the landmark decision on abortion on families across america. and the second of three days of hearings in the mar-a-lago documents case critics say are completely unnecessary amid continued questions about delaying tactics and judge cannon's questionable decisions. plus, prime minister netanyahu adding fuel to the fire with his feud with the white house. even as a political rival, his own defense minister, arrives in washington, trying to put out the flames. good day, everyone. just three days to go before the highly anticipated presidential showdown. the first 2024 debate between former president trump and president biden. it's the first time the two men will be in the same room since their last debate in 2020. president biden is at camp david preparing to face off with his closest aides while former president trump is fund raising after a rally in philadelphia in weekend. team trump saying his campaign events are all he needs to get ready for the debate and throwing down completely false claims to try to undercut the president. >> it's been reported that right now, crooked joe's gone to a log cabin to study, prepare. no, he's sleeping now. because they want to get him good and strong so a little before debate time, he gets a shot in the [ bleep ] that's, they want to strengthen him up. so he comes out, he'll come out -- okay. i say he'll come out all jacked up, right? >> mr. trump also telling reporters that he knows who he'll pick for vice president. nbc news has reported that he's now down to three top contenders. we'll have more on that. and with today's two-year anniversary of the supreme court's big decision overturning roe v. wade, the biden campaign is making the fight for reproductive rights central to the race. vice president harris speaking in maryland now saying donald trump is quote, guilty, the word she's using, of rolling back reproductive freedoms as president biden labels his opponent the sole person for affecting abortion bans. on "meet the press" yesterday, biden campaign national co-chair was asked about the trump campaign's continued attacks on the president's ability to serve four more years. he immediately pivoted instead to a top theme for team biden against trump. >> he's a twice impeached convicted felon who's been found to have defamed somebody, sexually abused somebody and gone bankrupt six times. the person who wants to be president has to go sit with his probation officer before he actually goes to the debate. >> and joining us now, kelly o'donnell and nbc news correspondent, vaughn hillyard, who's been covering the trump campaign. kelly, how is the biden campaign leaning in on this issue of abortion and what are the plans around the debate? >> well, good to be with you, andrea. this is a summer with big events and today is one of them in marking the second anniversary of the dobbs decision where the supreme court overturned roe v. wade and the national right to an abortion. this is an issue that the democrats have felt over a period of years now is a very animated one for its base. and vice president harris has been in many ways leading on this. the president's also put out a statement and video dealing with this anniversary, reminding voters that donald trump is solely responsible in their words for changing this policy and taking away that right that had been available for decades. the vice president is speaking in maryland right now as you alluded to and there is a different tone in some of her rhetoric on the campaign trail where she's addressing this anniversary and using language that might be evocative of the fact that the former president has now been convicted of a number of felonies in new york. the vice president using the word, guilty, now in this context of taking away those rights. here's the vice president in maryland just a short time ago. >> in the case of the stealing of reproductive freedom from the women of america, donald trump is guilty. >> reporter: so using sort of the language of criminal behavior to apply it to this constitutional area. of course we've heard from donald trump he thinks this is the right path to have it back in the states. the administration here believes strongly that it can prevail with women voters and independents and others by working toward trying to restore the rights of roe. that's part of debate prep. of course, it's involved at camp david with the president meeting with various advisers, going through policy positions and doing some mock debates as we understand it with a number of key advisers as the president spends time gearing up for thursday. andrea? >> thanks to kelly and vaughn. so both campaigns are using language, trump campaign using the word, biden campaign using the word fight over and over again and guilty. the trump campaign talking about you know, juicing up joe biden, which is you know, patently ridiculous. donald trump joking over the weekend about starting a sports league of migrants fighting each other. and are we really believing he's not doing any mock debates? >> the best we can do is take his advisers' word that he is prepping through the form of you know, right wing media interviews as well as being out on the campaign trial. he of course had a rally in philadelphia this weekend. he is en route from new jersey to new orleans for a fund-raiser. they are saying they are doing no mock debates like he did four years ago. of course, he didn't take part in the republican primary debates over the last year. for donald trump, you played the clip of him making the accusation this weekend that joe biden would shoot something in his butt. i just want to be clear when we talk about those remarks by donald trump about joe biden. is that he said literally verbatim the exact same thing four years ago after the first debate. of course, he and his campaign in 2020, before that first debate, had suggested that joe biden was sleepy. on the cognitive decline, but then after the first debate when joe biden showed up with ferver and energy, not the type of man that so often is seen on short video clips that are posted online, donald trump's response in the days after was that he must have injected and taken something. you're saying something from the trump campaign as donald trump is expectation setting, that they should expect to see a president like the one they saw at the state of the union address where over the course of a long period of time, again, not just in short video clips, somebody who is very much with it and engaged. as for donald trump, we have seen him deflect and deny that he was guilty in the new york hush money payment scheme case and we have seen him deny the other charges from the sexual abuse, the civil trial that went forward as well as the financial fraud trial. so while the president biden may make those assertions for the public and millions viewing, donald trump we have seen repeatedly not run away from the accusations, but instead deny them and place the blame on joe biden and democrats for propelling what he calls political persecution, of course which there is no evidence of. >> no evidence of that, but also raising record amounts of money since the conviction, including the timothy melon donation of $50 million. kelly, vaughn, all over it as we lead into the debate week. and joining us now, adrian, senior spokesperson for the biden harris 2024 campaign. great to see you. let's talk about the setting of expectations. a lot of manipulation on both sides. mitch landrieu used the word fight 11 times in one interview. that is no accident. a recent cbs poll showing 66% think donald trump is tougher than president biden. how is the president going to come back at the debate? they're similar in age. just three years apart, but there is a physical difference. do they just look different and joe biden has been plagued by just the physical present. the way he walks. a lot of fake or cheap fakes as we look at some of these falsely edited clip that is the trump campaign have been putting on to put him in the worse possible light. >> thanks for having me. a couple of things. it's important to take a step back and keep in mind that president biden and donald trump have not been on the same stage in nearly four years. since then, several things have happened. number one, donald trump has been impeached twice. number two, he's been convicted of 34 felonies so he's now a convicted felon. and number three, women's reproductive rights have been severely put in jeopardy because roe has been overturned. i will tell you this. he's taking this debate prep very, very seriously. why? because he knows what is at stake for the american people because president biden is out there fighting for the american people. fighting to lower costs, putting families first. donald trump is fighting to get back in the white house so he can seek political retribution among his enemies and to you know, essentially do things that are selfish for him. he is a very selfish person. president biden is fighting for the american people. that is why president biden is taking this debate prep incredibly seriously. you'll see a very energized president biden because he understands what is at stake for the american people. he understands he's the only person standing in the way of donald trump getting back in the white house and being a dictator on day one like he said he's going to do. cutting corporate taxes on the back of middle class families and creating a nationwide abortion ban that would harm women even more so. a contrast of different visions for this country. president biden is taking this very seriously. you're going to see a very energized president biden who's looking forward to having these direct conversations with donald trump on thursday night in atlanta. >> and the president's personal attorney, bob bower, former white house counsel, expected to again be playing the role of donald trump in debate prep. here's what he told me last week because he was here talking about his book. >> it's hard to say some things that he says. some of which are you know, very fact free. it's hard sometimes to take on that tone just because it's not a natural tone for me, but you're playing a role. you're trying to make the experience as realistic for the person you're working with as possible. >> how hard is it to prepare for a debate with donald trump when he is so aggressive and says things and interrupts so often as we saw in at least the first debate last time? >> yeah, first of all, president biden beat donald trump twice in 2020 when they debated so he's looking forward to having this conversation again. i think when the issues are on your side, when you're fighting for the american people and that is where your priorities are versus donald trump who by the way, has to resort to lying. to as you mentioned earlier, his campaign putting out these cheap fakes online perpetuating them because he doesn't have a vision for america. he is not fighting for the american people. he has no substance he's running on. so when you're president biden and you're prepping with your team to get ready for this debate, you know, it makes it a lot easier when you have number one, a record to run on. four major economic bills. 15 million jobs created and counting. historically low unemployment rates. when you've got a record to run on, a vision for what you want your second term to look like, it makes debate prep a lot easier. donald trump has nothing to run on. >> let me ask you about the immigration issue, which the administration has been struggling with. and inflation. even though it's coming down, still food and energy prices are still high and those are the prices that impact people. and one other quick thing is that there is a profile in "the new york times" today of the three closest advisers. longest serving advisers to the president. they're all white men in their 60s or higher. former senator ted kaufman, 85 years. >> i'm glad you mentioned immigration because one thing president biden wants to talk to donald trump about on thursday and you'll see him do this, is why did you stop your maga cronies in congress from moving forward with the historic immigration bill that was bipartisan. would have solved a lot of issues we're dealing with at the border. why did you stop them from doing this when you say immigration and our situation at the border is one of your top priorities. when it comes to prices, president biden has done a lot to lower prices. we came off of a once in a generation pandemic which president biden made sure we didn't go into a recession because of policies he put in place. donald trump practically cheered from the sidelines when inflation was going up. so he's going to talk about that. i'll talk about the people who president biden surrounds himself with. some of his top aides. these are loyal, dedicated public servants who have a lot of experience and are part of a team that helped get some of these major economic policies in place and are president biden's first term in the white house. they're long time allies of the president. of course they should be there in the debate prep. you also have plenty of other women around. long time senior adviser to the president. so he's got the team around him that is going to make sure he is the most prepared for this debate. and again, president biden is going into thursday night with the american people at the forefront of his mind and how he's going to continue to fight for him. whereas donald trump only wats to fight for himself. you are going to see a significant contrast between these two candidates on thursday night. >> we'll all be watching. thank you very much. of course, we've reached out to the trump campaign as well. thursday, rachel and team leading special coverage of the debate hosted by cnn. watch thursday beginning at 7:00 eastern. coming up, more delays from the judge in the mar-a-lago classified documents case. why she scheduled two more pretrial hearings today. that's next. you're watching "andrea mitchell reports." back in 90 seconds. stay with us on msnbc. rts. back in s90econds stay with us on msnbc. ♪♪ ♪♪ chewy, a citi client, uses citi's financial expertise to help drive its growth and keep its supply chain moving, so more pet parents can get everything they need... right when they need it. keeping more pets, and families, happy. ♪♪ for the love of moving our clients forward. for the love of progress. 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(vo) new and existing customers get iphone 15 on us when they trade in any iphone. verizon today in florida, it's day two of hearings in the mar-a-lago classified documents case. donald trump's legal team arguing before judge cannon that jack smith's position is unconstitutional even though that's been decided by other judges. the afternoon hearing today, judge cannon is hearing jack smith's request to restrict donald trump from falsely claiming the fbi agents were complicit in the search when the warrant included boilerplate language to protect those being searched that was also in the search of president biden's home. joining us now, andrew weissman, former senior member of the mueller probe. i'm not a lawyer, andrew. did i get anything wrong there? >> no, you did not. there are two motions that are on for today. one is super technical. it has to do with appropriations. that is whether the department of justice is spending the right amount of money and using the right bucket to pay for the special counsel in this case. one of the points that jack smith made is that this is the same funding scheme that's been going on for decades for numerous special counsels. republican and democratic. so there's nothing new here to see. yet as we know and as you pointed out, judge cannon is insisting on having lengthy hearings on every single issue, but not the trial. >> couldn't she refer some of this to the sitting magistrater experienced because he handled the search warrants on mar-a-lago? >> absolutely. that is an excellent point that she has all of these motions that are stacked up. even with the hearings this week, there's a lot of other motions that are pending that she has not gotten to. standard procedure is the use magistrate judges assigned to every case. there's one assigned here to hear these cases. and she is not doing that and yet she said she's so busy with these pretrial motions that she can't set the trial date. as you point out, there's some tense in that position. >> could jack smith have a red line, for instance, if she rejects his request for what in effect would be a gag order on talking about the fbi, which fbi people have said is really dangerous for their agents and that the attorney general has said is boilerplate language. if she rejects that, could he go to the 11th circuit and try to broaden it? is there any chance of trying to remove her from a case where she is just delaying even today and last week amicus briefs off the trial at the district level rather than appeals court level? >> i think her mere delay of the trial, that alone, that was all there was. that unfortunately is not a basis to seek her recusal. however, your point about if she does not extend the gag order, that is the type of issue that you can imagine jack smith taking to the 11th circuit. why? because it goes to the safety of law enforcement and that is something that having been in law enforcement for over 20 years, that's something that, that's why you were in law enforcement is to make sure that you are reducing the risk. so you could imagine that would be appealed. then once you're in the circuit, the circuit on its own actually has the power to remove a judge if they think that judge is not confident or capable. and remember, they have already, the 11th circuit, court of appeals here, has already ruled against judge cannon on two occasions so this might be a third. >> andrew weissman, thank you. and join andrew and me and all of the msnbc hosts on saturday, september 7th. this is a really big deal. the msnbc live democracy 2024. it's our premier fan event in brooklyn, new york. hear thought provoking conversations about the most pressing issues of our time and take part in a sit-down dinner for an insider's view. scan the qr code on your screen to buy your tickets today. and born to run. a wisconsin doctor hoping to make history and become one of the only pro abortion rights obgyns on capitol hill. dr. lyerly joins me next. what straps bold to a rocket and hurtles it into space? boring does. boring makes vacations happen, early retirements possible, and startups start up. because it's smart, dependable, and steady. all words you want from your bank. for nearly 160 years, pnc bank has been brilliantly boring so you can be happily fulfilled... which is pretty un-boring if you think about it. 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-five years. introducing the comcast business 5-year price lock guarantee. powering 5 years of savings. powering possibilities. today marks two years since the supreme court overturned decades of abortion protections. democrats are highlighting the issues hoping it will rally women voters to the biden campaign. in battleground wisconsin, dr. kristen lyerly could become the first in congress. and joining us now, democratic candidate for wisconsin's eight congressional district. welcome. en thank you very much. talk to me about how dobbs affected your practice whereas i understand it, you had to commute to minnesota from wisconsin because of the way the law was changed. >> yeah, i'm actually on my way home from work duty in minnesota. i'm in wisconsin in the children's library. i was able to find a little wi-fi hot spot. because in wisconsin when the dobbs decision happened, we stopped performing nearly all abortion care. the only exception was for the life of the mother, but that was so poorly defined most of us were sending patients outside of the state for even the most heartbreaking, devastating care. it was terrible for doctors. horrible for our patients. and so we fought back. and i'm proud to tell you, andrea, that it is myname on the judgment in -- >> yeah, we had a little bump there in your connection, but got you back. there was an 1849 abortion law that resurfaced in wisconsin after that dobbs ruling in 2022. talk to me about how impacted people in your state? of course, there was a larger attempt, lawsuit to nullify that. >> right. it -- but here in wisconsin, our patients were unable to see -- in our ability to take care of each other. >> i'm so sorry. we lost that connection, which is one of the problems of your commute in terms of communicating your issue. going to try to reestablish that and at least get you when you're back home. and coming up, a high stakes visit. israeli defense minister is in washington today meeting with cabinet members as washington and israel look to diffuse rising tensions over arms shipments, but the prime minister has reignited that only last night again. you're watching "andrea mitchell reports" only on msnbc. watchinl reports" only on msnbc e are so y tina feys i could be. so i hired body doubles to help me out. splurgy tina loves a hotel near rodeo drive. oh tina! wild tina booked a farm stay to ride this horse. glenn close?! with millions of possibilities you can book whoever you want to be. that's my line! booking.com booking.yeah why use 10 buckets of water when you can use 1 fire extinguisher. and to fight heartburn, why take 10 antacids throughout the day when you can take 1 prilosec. for easier heartburn relief, one beats ten. prilosec otc. one pill. 24 hours. zero heartburn. when you put in the effort, but it starts to frizz... you skipped a step. tresemmé silk serum. use before styling for three days of weightlessly smooth hair that frizz can't beat. new tresemmé keratin smooth collection. israel's defense ministers in washington now meeting with secretary austin. he'll be meeting with secretary blinken as well as other officials today. prime minister netanyahu repeated sunday that the white house is withholding weapons delivers to israel despite white house denials. netanyahu also said his military is winding down its intensive phase but still plans to quote eliminate hamas. and conflict is heating up, risking a second front that could be very damaging to israel and lebanon. major israeli cities and military installations boasting about its missiles reach. joining us now, the former israeli ambassador to the u.s. ambassador, it's great to see you. thank you very much for being with us. the situation in the north is so threatening. according to all of our military analysts, hezbollah has a huge missile force, military force. 90,000 people have been evacuated for eight months, since october 7th, from the north. so just first of all, how dangerous is that to israel? and to the -- >> good to be with you, andrea. it is hair trigger. about a week and a half ago, i brought the first delegation of israeli displaced people. nine housewives have been out of their homes for eight months, three kids in one room, with rockets going over their heads every night. it hasn't really been covered in this country. but it's essential because a war with hezbollah would be ten times more damaging than the war with hamas. as you mentioned, hezbollah a has missile force of between 120 and 170,000 rockets. they're longer range. far more accurate. in terms of fighting force, hezbollah is three to four times hamas. and they've been killing syrians for half a decade. they're very adept at that. extremely dangerous and assumption is a war with hezbollah, iran would join in, iranian backed militias in iraq. even the houthi rebels can fire missiles from yemen that can hit israel. it's a degree of scale of warfare that hasn't been witnessed in the middle east in generations and it's really at a hair trigger situation in which hezbollah won't accept a cease fire unless hamas accepts a cease fire and hamas rejects a cease fire. >> i know the special enjoy has been trying so hard to prevent this from happening so at the same time, it's hard to understand why prime minister netanyahu is amplifying his dispute with the white house. the administration has been paying a high political price for its embrace of israel. widespread resignations from the state department. the state department only stopped delivery temporarily on 10,000 pound bombs used against civilian areas. so talk to me about you know, why netanyahu would be doing this. we all assume here in the states and also in israel by his critics that this is for domestic, political reasons. >> i'm not a spokesman and i'm not in government right now. i assume something of the order of during the first months of the war, in october and december, president biden sort of did a run around congress. usually when you supply arms to another country, it has to go through all sorts of approval processes and president biden went around those processes and rushed arms to israel. by december, those processes were back in form and that caused certain delays. that's my best reading of this. and so both sides can say prime minister netanyahu can say there's been a delay at the state department and in the white house, they say there's no delay. i think the major issue is keeping your eye on the ball, which has hezbollah and the bigger ball beyond that, which is rushing toward a nuclearization. so this particular spat is very unfortunate right now and we shouldn't be having it. any disagreements we have, and we're going to have disagreement, should be kept behind closed doors and not letting our common enemies derive any benefit from it. this is why the trip is so essential. we've got to take down the temperature here and focus on the major threats to both israel and the united states. because if there's a war between israel and hezbollah, yes, the united states could get involved and if there is an iranian nuclear rush, that changes the entire balance of power, not just in the middle east, but the entire world. iran is an ally of russia and china. so we have paramount interests and we have to get on the same page. >> understand and very good points there, ambassador. that's one of the reasons why right after october 7th, the u.s. sent a carrier there to send that message to iran. and hopefully it's going to work. >> they're coming back now. there's two carriers now and it's a very important, i think, as a personal opinion, that the united states put some teeth into don't. do you remember what the president said in october, directed it to iran and hezbollah. said don't. don't dare attack israel. while israel's engaged in gaza. it would be very good if the united states send a message to iran and hezbollah. don't, but with teeth. we're serious about it and we're there, not just to make a show of naval power, but to actually prevent a regional war from erupting. >> ambassador, great context from you. we appreciate your experience. thank you very much. >> thank you very much. bye bye. have a good day. and abortion on the ballot. democrats are pushing hard on that issue trying to ignite opposition to donald trump over the abortion issue. on the second anniversary of the dobbs decision, virginia congresswoman and candidate for next year, joining us. this is msnbc. year, joining us. this is msnbc. has no idea she's sitting on a goldmine. well she doesn't know that if she owns a life insurance policy of $100,000 or more she can sell all or part of it to coventry for cash. even a term policy. even a term policy? 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(vo) sail through the heart of historic cities and unforgettable scenery with viking. talk to a healthcare provider unpack once, and get closer to iconic landmarks, local life, and cultural treasures. because when you experience europe on a viking longship, you'll spend less time getting there and more time being there. viking. exploring the world in comfort. in virginia today on this dobbs anniversary, activists rally in richmond. they were joined by actress ashley judd and two members of congress. and joining me, u.s. congresswoman and now virginia gubernatorial candidate, abigail spamburger. while the governor's election isn't until next year, november's election could have a huge impact on your race. talk to us about why it's important for your campaign and for supporters of abortion rights to focus on reproductive rights today? >> on this day, the two-year anniversary of the dobbs decision, i think so many of us remember where we were back when that decision came down. i was on capitol hill and i started being inundated by phone calls and messages from friends, from former colleagues, from former college roommates. you name it. people across the political spectrum who were stunned. even though there would been a draft opinion leak, were ultimately stunned that this was our reality. that nearly 50 years of supreme court precedent, what we believed to be settled law, was indeed upended and in fact, the freedoms that american women believed they had, had been pulled back. and so as we head towards november, it is once again not just an opportunity for us to voice our opinions and our desires to see the right to abortion, the right to a contraception access, the right to ivf protected, it is also an opportunity for us to once again elect people who will do the work. that is codification and law. that is constant clarity of principle when protecting the rights of women and so this november 2024, for me, the obvious choice for re-election is president biden, kamala harris. senator tim kaine here in virginia and our extraordinary nominees across the commonwealth. we saw in virginia in 2023, when we, the house and delegates and maintain the majority in the state senate, those elections in large part were won because people want legislation who are focused on what matters most. and yes, those issues are cost. those issues are the challenges that people are facing in their day-to-day. but it is also fundamentally the issues of our freedoms and whether or not this dobbs decision is the first step in potentially seeing a greater rollback of the rights. >> let me ask you, sorry, we've got this connectivity problem and a delay from your zoom. i love that we've got the pink today. by total coincidence. turning to another topic. according to the "washington post," virginia's department of education is proposing revisions in an elective course on african american history. including cuts to many references about white supremacy, systemic racism. if elected governor, what would you do about that? >> well, first and foremost, virginia is the birthplace of our democracy. also the birthplace of slavery in the united states. virginia has a history of progress. we have a history of challenges. if we are not teaching the fulsome history of the commonwealth of virginia, we are doing a disservice to the kids, to our communities, and to our educational systems. in our schools, teachers and educators are teaching children true history at an age appropriate level, understanding it is through our progress and movement each day, each day, ea year, making our country a better and better place, that we can celebrate the successes and the progress we've made. importantly, virginia faces other challenges. we face challenges with retention of teachers in classrooms. we face challenges of -- in some communities, inability to recruit enough teachers, a large classroom size, learning loss from covid. the governor must be focused on ensuring every child going through virginia's public school system, as 3450i three girls currently are, are educating, graduating, ready for a college experience or ready for a career. that's what any governor across the country should be focusing on, not rewriting history. >> congresswoman abigail spanberger, thanks very much. will this week's debate change the dynamics of such a closely fought presidential contest? that's next. you're watching "andrea mitchell reports" on msnbc. you're watching "andrea mitchell reports" on msnbc. ing. ♪ ♪ [ engine revving ] oh now we're torquin'! the dodge hornet r/t. the totally torqued-out crossover. all—new subway wraps are packed with delicious ingredients in a pillowy lavash wrap. finally a refreshing lunch that tastes deli— perfect for pro athletes like me, right? can i finish? try all—new wraps from subway today. it's derm's day off, but neutrogena ultra sheer sunscreen is still on the clock. vital sun protection goes six layers deep blocking 97% of burning uv rays. it's light, but it's working hard. unlike me. neutrogena ultra sheer sunscreen. thursday's presidential debate in atlanta is going to be the first time a sitting president is challenged by one of his pred so ses sores. the face-off will be the earliest televised general election debate in american history, hosted by cnn with commercial break, not by the non-partisan debate commission as with every general debate since 1988. there will be no audience. microphones will be muted when the opponent's time is slated to speak. joining me now, msnbc political analyst, former ohio governor john kasich, "new york times" columnist david french and dan balls. you said president biden's debate prep has been too insular as someone who has debated donald trump, how should the biden campaign be approaching the debate? >> first of all, i think it's time for biden to change the narrative that he's too old. it's a chance for him to stand up and show he really knows what he's doing, if he can show that, number one. number two, he needs to debunk the myth that everything was great under trump economically. thirdly, i think he needs to talk about the foreign policy situation that's going on and probably also touch on his latest plans to deal with immigration. so it's very, very important for donald trump, is basically to not interrupt and not get into these antics that will turn people off. in some respects, as somebody said, this may be the most important debate since the 1980 debate with reagan and jimmy carter, reagan having to prove that he really knew what he was doing, particularly on foreign policy. this is important for biden to be able to show that he's in command. >> dan, you sort of counterintuitively, you're writing that given the lack of any real movement in the polls so far this year, it's questionable whether thursday's debate would provide a significant jolt to the electorate that fundamentally changes them absent a major mistake. there's always that caveat, absent a major mistake. we've seen that with poland not being under the domination of the soviet empire back with gerald ford. we've seen the way ronald reagan preempted the age issue which had been a real concern in 1984 against walter mondale, saying he wasn't going to take advantage of the youth and inexperience of his opponent. there could be a blunder. we certainly saw that, maybe not at the time, but what drum said about the proud boys last time around, well, in 2016. >> andrea, i think it's very difficult to overhype this debate. as governor kasich important t the 1980 debate. so that's the first thing i think everybody agrees on. i think the second is that, if anything is going to change the trajectory of this race, it could be this debate. we've gone through a lot of big events over the last year and nothing has really moved the polls in any significant way. we're in basically a margin-of-error race. the third thing i would say is i think each of these candidates has more to lose than to gain because people are going to be judging them from a kind of a negative perspective. and if they play into that stereotype or caricature or whatever you want to define it, it could be quite damaging. i think that people are going to be watching this debate to judge these two candidates, first of all, on their kind of temperament and readiness, and then there will be the issue debate. those are separate, and people will judge both of those as they see it. >> and david french, donald trump told nbc news in his mind -- there was a whole gaggle of reporters in philly -- that he knows who he's going to pick for his vice presidential choice. nbc news has reported that there are three type candidates, doug burgum, senator j.d. vance, marco rubio. among those, who do you think would be the most effective vice presidential running mate for donald trump? >> i think the most effective running mate for trump, the one that would help him win would be j.d. vance more than any of the others. this is a guy who is true believer, has become -- even if he is or isn't is irrelevant, he's become a very eloquent defender of maga, perhaps the most eloquent defender of maga. rubio has already proven that he doesn't necessarily flourish on the national stage. that's an understatement. burgum is just a non-entity. there's nothing about him that is going to challenge the absolute dominance of trump, sort of his charisma and perez sense. both j.d. vance and rubio do have real gifts in communication that burgum does not have. i think better for trump and maga is j.d. vance. i think burgum is a non-entity. rubio, he's in the middle. he's in the middle. i don't think he brings as much as j.d. vance, but he is more of a presence than burgum. >> and what about -- dan balz, what about the double haters that ashley parker wrote about today in terms of voters opposed to both candidates. how do you think the candidates is try to appeal to those and change their minds? >> well, that's a very important question, because i think those double haters, as we're calling them this year, are in general so dissatisfied with both candidates, the question is how many of them will actually vote. i think each of these candidates has to say something directly to them saying they understand their lives, where they're coming from and why they're disillusioned both with the candidates and the political process. i think it will be a challenge for each of these candidates, president biden and former president trump to be able to speak that effectively to these voters. i think these voters are going to wait well into the fall before they make a decision. >> we're going to have to leave it there. please, all of you come back this week as we continue to talk about the debate and some of the unusual ways that the candidates are preparing for them. thank you very much john kasich, david french and dan balz. that does it for this edition of "andrea mitchell reports." follow us on social media @mitchellreports. on youtube go to msnbc.com/andrea. "chris jansing reports" starts right now. good day. i'm chris jansing live at m