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your time. andrea mitchell picks up with more news right now. right now on "andrea mitchell reports," the white house and prime minister netanyahu in a public dispute over weapons, further straining an already tense relationship. is the prime minister trying to tip the scale toward donald trump in the 2024 campaign? this as thousands of tons of critically needed food, medicine and fuel are stranded near border crossings still not getting to starving and ill palestinians. our guest, samantha power. the showdown coming up in atlanta. a busy hurricane season. south texas is slammed by high winds and storm surge from tropical storm alberto now moving into mexico. ♪♪ good day, everyone. i'm andrea mitchell in washington. the war of words between the white house and israel's prime minister's office is heating up. benjamin netanyahu fired the first round, accusing the u.s. of withholding weapons from israel. speaking in english for maximum impact in the u.s. >> it's inconceivable that in the past few months the administration has been withholding weapons and ammunition to israel. israel, america's closest ally, fighting for its life. churchill told the united states, give us the tools, we'll do the job. i say, give us the tools, and we'll finish the job a lot faster. >> the white house reacted sharply yesterday, since nothing -- saying that nothing has been withheld except one shipment of 2,000-pound bombs that the u.s. suspects could have been used inappropriately against civilians. >> we don't know what he is talking about. we just don't. >> the former ambassador to the u.s. is in washington on a 24-hour visit. he will meet with antony blinken as well as jake sullivan. netanyahu is facing incoming from his military as an idf spokesman said the prime minister's goal of completely destroying hamas is, quote, unattainable. joining me now, kelly o'donnell and matt bradley, from jerusalem. matt, why is netanyahu attacking the white house after all the support from joe biden, which is causing biden a lot of political protests and problems at home? except for the one shipment of 2,000-pound bombs that were allegedly used against civilian neighborhoods. >> reporter: it's baffling, isn't it? you have been covering diplomacy your whole life. you can see there was a serious lack of it in what we saw in the last couple of days, not only from netanyahu but also from white house. it looks as though this relationship is facing its most serious rupture yet. we have been hearing a lot about it over the past couple of months. most of it has been more or less private, behind the scenes. we know there's been a massive falling out. this was a rare, very, very strong citing of this. i have been speaking with people who are close to netanyahu, close to his office. they say that, yes, as you mentioned, this was about an english language video targeting the americans. it's a lot about appealing to donald trump and his base only a couple of months before the election. it also says mostly, benjamin netanyahu is facing pressure internally. this is about what he is facing here from his far right cabinet. they are making demands on the prime minister that he tried to shove aside time and time again, even as he relies on them for support. he is facing serious criticism, sometimes not so veiled at all from his own military, the ones who are leading the charge in the gaza strip. he is also facing incredible military pressure, from hamas in the gaza strip, who are still holding on, eight months later, and now -- we have seen this not just now but for the past eight months, but over the past couple of days we have seen an uptick in the violence over the northern border. hezbollah has been fighting in a way that cannot be shoved aside anymore. we hear from the israeli security establishment and most recently from the leader of hezbollah yesterday, long that worries a lot of people. if that fight over the northern border breaks out into a war, it could wrap in the entire region. >> indeed. kelly, let's talk about the meetings. a national security official and ron dermer are meeting. he was the ambassador in the u.s. he knows the u.s. better than anyone. this is clearly a crisis. the white house -- john kirby has been briefing. that's also adding fuel to this, because they are saying that it is just completely inaccurate that they are withholding weapons. >> reporter: what's notable on many levels is simply stating that there's a meeting today is news in and of itself. that meeting was something that officials had told us would be postponed in direct response to the netanyahu video. because u.s. officials say that it is perplexing. they don't understand it. it's disappointing, they say, that the prime minister of israel would speak out publicly in the way he did and make an accusation about withholding weapons that the u.s. says is simply inaccurate, false, and in conflict with the kind of support that the biden administration, the president in particular, has provided, noting the time when iran fired into israel and how the u.s. was able to marshall all kinds of resources to fend off that attack. in addition to a large amount flowing into israel. this shipment that included 2,000-pound bombs is under review. the reason for that is that they believed that it was not the appropriate type of munition for what they expected would be a big ground offensive in rafah. that goes back to may. that is still under review. the meeting was in a volatile and tenuous place. the importance of the relationship, the ongoing conversations behind the scenes, that that meeting with secretary blinken and national security advisor jake sullivan will take place today. thursday, today, was the intended target for the meeting. it was said to be postponed in reaction. that message, apparently, got through to israel. they found a way to come together today. >> i'm curious -- i'm checking with the israeli side. was this the original meeting that was supposed to be on iran? or is this -- this could be a damage control meeting. >> reporter: that's a very good distinction. the iran meeting was supposed to be dealing with the threat -- the scope of threats iran poses to israel. that had been in discussions for a long period of time. that meeting is, in fact, the meeting i was referring to as being postponed. you are making a very smart point that blinken and sullivan could be doing relationship repair. i don't have more insight on that at this time. we will look into it and get back to you. it is significant that any kind of meeting at this point could be viewed as a sign of the respect of the relationship, even amid what is a frayed and tense partnership. >> absolutely. in any case, it's damage control. we both know that. to matt bradley, kelly o'donnell -- kelly, you will be busy today. thanks very much. major supreme court decisions, including a ruling on presidential immunity, it didn't come today. it could impact the 2024 race still pending. what's up with that? that's next when "andrea mitchell reports" is back in just 90 seconds. stay with us. you are watching msnbc. ♪♪ big story to tell. ♪♪ ♪♪ i take once-daily jardiance ♪♪ ♪♪ at each day's staaart. ♪♪ ♪♪ as time went on it was easy to seeee, ♪♪ ♪♪ i'm lowering my a1c! ♪♪ jardiance works twenty-four seven in your body to flush out some sugar. and for adults with type 2 diabetes and known heart disease, jardiance can lower the risk of cardiovascular death, too. serious side effects may include ketoacidosis that may be fatal, dehydration that can lead to sudden worsening of kidney function, and genital yeast or urinary tract infections. a rare, life-threatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. stop taking jardiance and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of this infection, ketoacidosis, or an allergic reaction. you may have an increased risk for lower limb loss. call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of infection in your legs or feet. taking jardiance with a sulfonylurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. ♪♪ jardiance is really swell ♪♪ ♪♪ the little pill with a big story to tell! ♪♪ what a letdown. the supreme court did release several opinions today, but not the big decision on donald trump's claim to have unqualified immunity from criminal prosecution that we have been waiting for. it's been pending for months. twice as long as the high court took years ago to decide unanimously that president nixon had to turn over his white house tapes, which does involve whether a president is immune from criminal prosecution. certainly, that's a precedent. critics argue it's an attempt to push former president trump's january 6th trial until after the presidential election when if he's elected, he could shut down that case. it's been waiting because of the immunity case. a new report says the supreme court -- justice amy coney barrett could be splitting from conservative justices, specifically justice thomas, on at least one case. this is a case involving whether people who have been held for -- prosecuted for domestic violence or found guilty of can keep their weapons. justice barrett cited with liberal justices last week. joining us now is josh kristy, who is reporting on that split, and joyce vance. josh, help us understand what could be emerging tensions between justice barrett -- this is all speculative, but you are deeply sourced. you broke the story on the dobbs case on the draft. could she be splitting from the conservative wing? she appears to have shifted in some of her views. >> it seems like there are rumblings of that, at least on this key question of how the supreme court should be using history. it's worth remembering that justice barrett obviously went along with the court in dobbs two years ago, overturning the federal constitutional right to abortion after nearly half a century in an opinion that had a lot of history in it, that's been disputed before and since, relied on authorities going back to the 1600s at least, which was kind of mocked in some circles. she went along with that. you are seeing in this very recent trademark opinion last week and another opinion from last year that she seems to be drawing some lines and some limits to how much she's willing to rely on history. one really does have to wonder if that's because she's nervous about some of the implications of doing that the way justice thomas and justice gorsuch, alito often seek to do in other cases like the domestic violence-related gun case that you just mentioned a moment ago. >> joyce vance, could precedent play a role in the immunity case? >> look, it absolutely does. what josh is talking about is a real shift in the way the court evaluates its prior precedent with this constant appeal to history and tradition. that's a history and tradition where, for instance, black people and women didn't have the status in society, the level of protection for their rights that they have today. this seems, i think, to be -- it's very early. justice barrett is new on the court. we don't have hundreds of opinions written by her to evaluate. we see her trying to set a more moderate approach in some ways. it could impact cases from the presidential immunity decision on through the gun case that you referenced and others yet to be decided this term. >> josh, let's talk about the immunity case. it has been since february 28th that they took the case. at that point, judge chutkan had to halt everything or even before that. she had to halt all pre-trial motions. she said she needs 80 days. we're up against it. it's unlikely this case will be -- depending how it is decided. if they agree with blanket immunity with donald trump, then january 6 is moot. but they could split the decision. they could try to send it back, can't they, for argument on what could be in the official realm and what is non-official, what would be immune and whatnot be, and have that argued in a lower court? >> right. we saw a lot of liberal legal activists say that they thought the supreme court dropped the deadline to make a decision and have this trial go forward before the election was sometime in the last week of may. we are obviously no longer in the last week of may. we are almost at the end of june and we don't have the decision yet. we might not get it until next week or the first week of july. there's not a lot of wiggle room here. you are right, andrea, that judge chutkan said she wanted i think it was 88 days to give that to the trump people to prepare if she gets the case back. at this point, it looks like one possibility is some sort of a hearing that would try to triage the evidence and perhaps the charges in the case separating the allegedly official acts, things that have some connection to him being president and things that have no connection. the special counsel says he can make that with that. whether there's time to do that and whether judge chutkan has the stomach to start a trial of a major presidential candidate in the beginning of october, say five weeks before the election -- we are already in uncharted territory here. we are leaping into outer space with that assessment. >> that's a good metaphor, isn't it, joyce? do you think that it is likely that there won't be a blanket immunity? i mean, there won't be -- the court rejecting the arguments as the appeals court, i should say, made very clear in a unanimous decision and a deeply written decision that presidents do not have immunity? >> you know, if the supreme court had wanted to just adopt the scholarly written by the court of appeals, they could have done that quickly. this delay suggests they won't do that. i think -- i tend to come down with folks who believe the court, to justice kavanaugh's point during oral argument, is writing a rule for all time. they will ask the judge, judge chutkan to apply that rule. that could be a lengthy process. >> joyce vance, great to see you in person. josh, thanks for jumping in on all of your great reporting. the flood watch. communities across south texas now feeling the effects of that tropical storm alberto, the first big weather event to kick off a busy hurricane season. you are watching "andrea mitchell reports." this is msnbc. you'll never truly forget migraine, but zero-migraine days are possible. don't take if allergic to qulipta®. most common side effects are nausea, constipation, and sleepiness. qulipta®. the forget-you-get migraine medicine™. ah, these bills are crazy. she has no idea she's sitting on a goldmine. well she doesn't know that if she owns a life insurance policy of $100,000 or more she can sell all or part of it to coventry for cash. even a term policy. even a term policy? 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>> reporter: you were in this room? >> he was sitting across from it. a glass table sitting there. on his phone doing whatever, getting ready to eat. i was in the living room. the den right by it. i came over there to show him, bob, look, that's right over here. by that time, it must have hit. >> reporter: it hit your house? >> yeah. i was still holding my phone. he said, that was a tornado and it hit. we didn't have time to get into no thing. the notice was very short. >> reporter: wow. like many others, they love it here. they don't plan to move. they will repair their home. just so you can see the intensity of the wind, there was a shed here that's no longer here. it's sitting over there by the house. that's the master bedroom. there's a tarp the neighbors placed on top of that where the roof was before. there's a hole in the roof there. that's the damage they suffered. they did have individuals from the state begin assessing the damage. we are still under a wind advisory here with wind gusts expected to get up to 40 miles per hour. other parts in the coast area are still flooded with much of the heavy rain gone, but still residents suffering the consequences here. >> the damage behind you, guad. thank you very much for that report. russian american ballerina serina carolina since being arrested earlier this year. she's from california. she was visiting her elderly mother when she was arrested on treason after she sent $51.80 to a charity supporting ukraine. she faces a sentence of 12 years to life in prison if found guilty. her trial was supposed to start today but postponed. it's now supposed to be held in august. the humanitarian crisis in gaza. the efforts to get aid into gaza to starve feeding civilians. deliveries of aid are at a standstill amid the fighting on the ground in gaza, even during pauses. we will talk to the head of u.. aid in a few moments. it u.s aid in a few moments pickle! yeah, aw! whoo! ♪♪ these guys are intense. we got nothing to worry about. with e*trade from morgan stanley, we're ready for whatever gets served up. dude, you gotta work on your trash talk. i'd rather work on saving for retirement. or college, since you like to get schooled. that's a pretty good burn, right? 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(kev) ... i guess we're movin'. he has been a top lawyer and a washington power player for decades. president biden's personal attorney and the former white house counsel for president obama. now, in his new book he is admitting that winning at all costs might not be the right approach in politics. recently, he has turned his attention to defending election integrity and fighting disinformation. joining me now is bob bauer, appearing in his own capacity, not as the president's attorney, and as the author of "unraveling." congratulations. show the cover here. it's a wonderful book. >> thank you. >> the way you describe your career and also what is happening right now. let's talk about what you see as the threats right now to democracy in the way our elections are conducted. >> there are a lot of sources of distress in the democracy, a lot of sources of strain on the democracy. one is what i call politics without ethics, which is politics is a hard driving business. it needs to be waged vigorously. there are enormous stakes. that's all to be taken for granted, to be understood. i'm not at all apologetic about the battles i have joined in. what i have observed over time -- i write about it. i try to explain it through my experiences and observations. this win at all costs, a form of anti-democratic politics. politics in which your adversary is your enemy. a politics in this you refuse to accept the outcome of elections. in this law is a blunt instrument to bludgeon your opponent with. if those democratic norms are worn away, then we don't have a true -- small d -- democratic politics. >> you advised lawmakers to change the law so it would no longer be possible to make sure that a vice president doesn't have the authority, even though he or she does not have the authority, but that there could not be any confusion about any loopholes. of course, they didn't. now won't. given what we are facing now, you and ben ginsburg, an election lawyer, you have combated in the past but you have worked together. >> yes. we have been opponents in cases on the other side of the table. i met him representing different parties in a contested election in congress. we recognize those fights -- they are vigorous and there's little we agree on in the way of policy matters. but those fights have to stop when it comes to protecting fundamental democratic institutions. we recognize people involved in politics and government have a responsibility when they make choices every day to win elections or win policy debates to think about the implications of those choices for democratic institutions and norms. i have been pleased to work alongside him and other republicans where we can come together, which is how electoral count reform passed. it was a bipartisan effort. >> right now, we are facing another no decision yet on presidential immunity, what many people say are unconscionable delays on the immunity issue because of the d.c. circuit's opinion, there's so many ways it could have been handled. right now, it has been longer -- more than twice as long as the high court in an 8-0 decision decided the nixon tape issue, which did involve presidential immunity. >> yes. i think a lot of people expected the court to schedule the hearing on this more quickly. but certainly, to decide it more quickly once it had heard oral argument. i imagine it's every day now. but, of course, those who are concerned about whether we're going to have a resolution of the federal prosecutions are increasingly coming to the conclusion that the chances of those coming to trial this year are slight. >> slight if non-existent. let me ask you about debates. you write about debates in your book. you write about having played donald trump the last time around and having to behave unhinged and having to go after joe biden and insult him. at one point, you got so carried away, you fell into the swimming pool. another point -- i think you stepped on one of the dogs. >> matter of fact, i was taking a break and playing with the dog. i launched myself into the swimming pool in the course of trying to heave the ball. >> at least you didn't get bitten. this was major. >> no, no, no. he was delightful. what you try to do in any debate prep -- i've done it in other campaigns and others than donald trump -- is you try to give the candidate that you are working with a real feel for what it's like to be debating that particular opponent. so you have to look at how someone like donald trump or whoever that might be actually performs. what are they willing to say? how are they willing to argue their case? >> is it harder for trump? he jumps from one thing to another. many of his insults have to be fact checked if real time. is that hard to prepare someone? >> no. to be honest, it's hard to say some of the things he says. some of which are very fact free. it's hard sometimes to take on that tone, just because -- it's not a natural tone for me. but you are playing a role. you are trying to make the experience as realistic for the person you are working with as possible. that's true throughout the all the debate preps i have done. i played al gore in the primary challenge with bill bradley. >> you write about that. >> you try to be as much like as possible the person you are -- that that candidate is facing. >> you regret some of the things that happened in that campaign? >> pardon me? >> you regret some of the decisions you made in that campaign? >> i write about that campaign. what i regret most of all is there were moments -- one of them occurred during a debate -- when the gore campaign chose to completely misrepresent senator bradley's vote on a particular issue and knew it and was called to account for it by the press, eventually. but wouldn't deviate from that line. that's part of a chapter in which i talk about, again, the responsibility of people to be tough in their politics, to make their argument, to make it fiercely, but at the same time to step back from misrepresenting issues to the voters. we cannot have the people most responsible for the dialogue not respecting the voters. they can argue hard to the voters. they can puff up, if you will. there has to be a line that deception and misrepresentation -- i write about that in the book. >> thank you so much. >> it's a pleasure. thank you. next, my conversation with samantha power on the efforts to get aid into gaza to feed starving civilians. you are watching "andrea mitchell reports." this is msnbc. t bloating iberogast thanks to a unique combination of herbs, iberogast helps relieve six digestive symptoms to help you feel better. six digestive symptoms. the power of nature. iberogast. ♪ febreze man: i don't about y'all, but when it comes to working from home, i gotta have every part of my house clean. that means tidying up, then spraying my febreze air mist, to leave every room smelling fresh and clean. with that done, it's time to get to work. ♪ la la la la la (man) mm, hey, honey. with that done, it's time to get to work. looks like my to-do list grew. 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>> well, it is in some ways a doom loop, because the assistance getting in gave rise to such desperation on the part of families that every time a truck shows up or goes through a part of gaza, there's a feeling this might be the last truck. there's not that regularized flow of assistance that we need in order to give people the confidence that they need that more will continue to flow. that's one aspect. there's criminality. there are gangs. there are armed elements there. then, of course, there is idf, hamas fighting. there's war, which makes it difficult for unarmed humanitarians to move convoys from point a to point b. it's a perfect storm of really difficult circumstances. there are humanitarians operating on the ground who you have seen working in conflict zones their entire careers. they have never worked in a more complex or more desperate situation. >> israel and the aid groups are trading accusations over who is to blame. from my analysis in my travels there, with rafah closed, that's cutting off a huge choke point for people to get out, also, for injured people, for sick people to get out. >> there's no question that the medical evacuation process needs to be amped up dramatically and significantly. you are right the rafah crossing was a crucial point of exit for kids and civilians who had life-threatening -- have life-threatening needs. we have been on the phone all of this week again with the groups and the israeli authorities to try to get that back up and running as scale. you know personally again how frustrating it has been for families to show up and to wait for hours when it's a life and death circumstance. that just can't happen. on the food situation, we do have lots of trucks that have moved into gaza, but if hamas would take the cease-fire, we have trucks that really could be reaching hungry people and are unable to move because of the conflict or because of the other elements that i have described before. we could do industrial-scale surge of assistance if the cease-fire would take hold. barring that, because it hasn't happened yet, we are working with the idf and the humanitarian groups. i was a participant in a meeting with the most senior idf commanders to try to expedite procedures at long last. it has been eight months. there's been some improvement but not enough. also to make the aid workers feel safe. more than 270 aid workers have been killed simply trying to deliver assistance or sometimes in their own homes. that can't happen if we will to have a reliable humanitarian operation. >> of course, you most recently -- we have seen sinwar, wherever he is hiding, with intercepted communications saying it's helping his cause, the most militant cause, when people are dying, that this is a good thing for him, which is unspeakable. i want to ask you about the u.s. diplomats. a number of them -- a group of diplomats, both at main state and u.s. aid have resigned in protest, believing that the administration has been too uncritical of netanyahu's policies in terms of the way weapons are used in very dense civilian areas, refugee camps included, as well as the initial policy of holding up aid and basically trying to starve people out. >> look, at u.s. aid people come to work here in order to deliver on a humanitarian and development mission. that is un difficult right now. there have been occasions where the blockages on humanitarian assistance coming from israel into gaza have been issues that we have raised with the israelis, pressed on. president biden makes this -- the granular details of this truck subject for every engagement with the prime minister. there are strong views at u.s. aid. people come to this agency to deliver assistance. they are going to continue to push from within. some of them don't feel comfortable being here and have objections to u.s. policy. i engage with them, hear from them. i think it's incredibly important that we have an agency where those viewpoints are brought forward. >> can you empathize with them? >> especially when they have ideas. imagine, your job is to help civilians endure the worst of conflict. and you find yourself unable to meet the needs of these people because trucks are backed up or because aid workers are killed in idf operation or hamas is hiding among civilians. it's frustrating and heartbreaking for them. we have teams of people working 24/7 to reach as many people as we can as quickly as we can before it's too late. >> samantha power, congratulations for everything that you are doing, your agency has been critical in all of these efforts. we thank you for joining us today. >> thanks, andrea. the deciders. we will head to michigan and the race for u.s. senate there. you are watching "andrea mitchell reports" on msnbc. ortsc ] listen. horsepower keeps you going, but torque gets you going. ♪ ♪ [ engine revving ] oh now we're torquin'! the dodge hornet r/t. the totally torqued-out crossover. ♪ i have type 2 diabetes, but i manage it well ♪ ♪ jardiance! ♪ ♪ it's a little pill with a big story to tell ♪ ♪ i take once-daily jardiance ♪ ♪ at each day's start! ♪ ♪ as time went on it was easy to see ♪ ♪ i'm lowering my a1c! ♪ jardiance works twenty-four seven in your body to flush out some sugar. and for adults with type 2 diabetes and known heart disease, jardiance can lower the risk of cardiovascular death, too. serious side effects may include ketoacidosis that may be fatal, dehydration that can lead to sudden worsening of kidney function, and genital yeast or urinary tract infections. a rare, life-threatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. stop jardiance and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of this infection ketoacidosis, or an allergic reaction. you may have an increased risk for lower limb loss. call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of infection in your legs or feet. taking jardiance with a sulfonylurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. ♪ jardiance is really swell ♪ ♪ the little pill ♪ ♪ with a big story to tell! ♪ with abortion a key issue for voters this election year, the presidents of three prominent abortion rights groups, emily's list, planned parenthood, and reproductive freedom for all, rallying grand rapids, michigan, today. each of those groups backing democratic congresswoman elissa slot kin, running for michigan's open senate seat. joining me live, shaquille brewster who spoke with the congresswoman. she's known primarily in washington for her armed services past work at ceo and pentagon. abortion is a huge issue especially with undecided voters, right? >> reporter: right. that was her message today, andrea, that she believes abortions is an animating and motivating issue even in this cycle. this is the first time that we've seen the leaders of these prominent organizations together in somewhat of a show of force for a candidate this cycle. they came here to grand rapids which is in kent county, a county that was traditionally republican but that biden flipped in 2020, to make that case. but the dynamics even since the midterm elections have shifted. donald trump now says that he wants this to be an issue that's left to the states. slotkin's likely opponent, mike rogers, says that he wouldn't vote for a 15-week abortion ban. so my question to the congresswoman was what's her message to voters who are considering taking republicans now at their word? >> they are not to be believed. look at their voting records, look at what they've done. not what they say now because it's politically unpopular. i just -- these guys have shown no backbone against the far right extremists who have been pushing this issue for 50 years. if somehow someone's going to tell me that donald trump, the guy who brags, glorifies how he was the president who overturned roe, is somehow the guy who now protects women, again, that is on you if you believe him. >> reporter: andrea, in polling we often see the economy and immigration come up as top issues, but the message from slotkin and the members -- leaders of these groups is that abortion is something that is animating and for some voters disqualifying as they look to cast their ballot. >> shaq brewster, thank you so much. let's turn to nbc news political editor mark murray and brendan buck, former communications adviser to presidents ryan and boehner. so mark, michigan's kent county is one of the seven counties that nbc has been tracking. what can kent county tell us how michigan will go? >> this is historically a republican county. this is the home place of gerald ford, mitt romney, won it by eight percentage points in a 2012. joe biden won by 6% points. as we end up seeing that president biden's, you know, numbers have decreased a little bit including in michigan, he has to win kent county by that kind of margin. that was the secret to his success in 2020. he has to replicate it to win again in 2024. >> hillary clinton barely went to michigan, and that was one of her problems. and brendan, let's talk about michigan and donald trump. it's critical for him and you've got arab and muslim voters, young voters, angry at joe biden or many of them angry and frustrated with joe biden. are they going to vote for donald trump? are they going to stay home? >> yeah, that's the question obviously that -- that's the issue that donald trump is trying to press. he's stirring the pot quite a bit. and look, i don't think that the biden campaign has made the case enough with those voters there about what the actual alternative is. we know that they have gone -- quite a bit of attention now trying to ease the concerns of that population, particularly in that state. there's a huge population there of arab and muslim americans. donald trump's campaign in a lot of ways has been trying to poke holes in biden's vulnerabilities whether with black voters or young voters. now a lot of places that feels like a bit of overreach. you're probably not going to win this election on the back of black voters if you're trump. but in michigan, this could be the deciding factor. and i think as trump becomes more front and center, biden will have a bigger opportunity to say i know that you're mad at me about how i've handled the situation in gaza, but look at the alternative that you have here. today he's -- as much of a referendum on joe biden. i think over the next few months he'll be able to make much of a choice between the two of them. >> and mark, with the debate just next week, we understand now that the coin toss has gone to donald trump. so he will have the last word. >> and you know, sometimes you want to have the last word, andrea. of course, sometimes in debates you want to do well at the beginning when most people are tuning in. and you know, at the end of the day, this is going to be a very big moment that we'll see with a lot more moments to come. >> and brendan, what -- what are the stakes right now? who has the most to prove in this debate? joe biden or donald trump? >> well, i think it's easy to say joe biden. usually the incumbent president typically doesn't do very well. they're not used to having people challenge them in situation like this and haven't debated in a long time. obviously we'll be looking closely to see how joe biden is able to perform, how fast he is on his feet. what's helpful for joe biden is the expectations have been lowered so incredibly low, as we saw with the "state of the union." republicans had basically presented an image that joe biden was going to melt the moment he stood up there to give his speech. if he's able to get through with an even historically average performance, that could be fine. i do think that donald trump himself also there is a lot of pressure because he himself has not been in a position to be challenged or have to debate anybody in a while. as we know, he surrounds himself with yes people and lives in his own little bubble. so i think this is the first time that we've been able to see these two men on a debate stage, either of them, in a very long time. and the perception of who is really on top of their game i think could have a much greater impact than debates typically do. >> mark, briefly, right now the trump campaign and their allies with a lot of these trumped up media -- videos taking them out of context, distorting them, whatever, from g7 and other places, are trying to portray the president as weak, feeble, out of it. >> this is why the debate really does matter. prem -- you're going to see millions of americans tune in, be able to judge them side by side. both see the contrasts, the comparison. i think that's why this is going to be big, andrea. >> well, we'll have to leave it there. that does it for this edition of "andrea mitchell reports." and "chris jansing reports" with ana cabrera starts right now. hello, and thanks for being with us. i'm in for chris

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