thanks for joining us this hour. really happy to have you here. we have an interesting show tonight, and i'm particularly glad you are here for it. we will go a ways back when allied soldiers came ashore on the coast of france on the beaches of normandy for the d- day invasion. they opened up a new western front against the nazis in europe , a shock to the germans. the operation, the d-day invasion relied on the element of surprise. and the germans really were shocked. they had been occupying france for four years at that point. they installed a collaborationist regime that they assembled from pro-fascist and pro-nazi organizations. there was a french resistance to the nazi rule and collaborationist's, but the nazis and their puppets you know, were definitely in charge. they were heading into year five of being in charge. they were really settled in, in france. and then, here comes this shock arrival, this invasion, ultimately millions of allied troops, landing on the beaches at the cliffs of the northwest of france, and they are clearly planning to take it all back. the d-day invasion, the allied invasion began, june 6th. now, on this date, june 10th, 1944, just four days into the d- day invasion, the germans were reacting. they had been shocked by the initial invasion, of course, but a few days into it they realized the scale of what they were up against, and they started scrambling their units from all over france, turning all available german troops in france toward the northwest of the country to try and stop the allied advance. and that included a nazi division that had been in the south of france, and it was ordered to essentially traverse the whole length of the country, head to the beaches of normandy to the north, and on their way toward the new allied western front, this division stopped in a village, called oradour. nazi collaborators said the french resistance was active in this town, and, they told them the french resistance in that town had killed a nazi officer. and in response, that unit decided, yes, they were on their way to the north of france to go join the new western front, and the battle for the whole war, right? to try and shore up the german lines against the big allied invasion, but they decided on the way there they would stop and do something in oradour, they would destroy that entire village, and everyone in it. that unit rounded up every single man, woman, and child, in that village, they even rounded up random people who did not live in the village, but work nearby or had the misfortune to be passing through the village when this nazi unit made this decision. and that nazi unit killed every human being, in oradour , or everyone they could find. the killed 643 civilians, the vast majority of them, women and children. the used machine guns. and, they burned them alive. they looted the entire village. and then they tore down the village as best they could. they razed it. oradour. this is what it looks like today. it is still in ruins. the french decided after the war that they would never rebuild, they would leave the ruins, preserve them as they were left at the end of the war as a memorial to what the nazis did. and, we have these photos of what oradour looks like, today, literally, today , because this morning, the president of france and president of germany visited the ruins at oradour to commemorate what they call the martyrdom of that village, to remember what happened in europe, in france under fascist occupation. now this is not the first time that french president, emmanuel macron, has visited oradour. 10 days before he was first elected president, he went there, he visited the village just before he was elected president. he visited in the company of a man who was then the last living survivor of that massacre. i said the nazis killed everyone in the village, at least everyone they could find, the nazis did kill over 600 civilians that day. but, there were about half a dozen people from the village, who against all odds -- in a miracle-- managed to survive. the last one of the survivors was in his 90s when he brought emmanuel macron to oradour in 2017. that survivor has since died. but, today, macron went back to the site of oradour to show this place to germany's president. now, in 1944, six months after oradour happened, the germans were still hanging on, but thanks in large part to the d- day invasion, they knew by the end of 1944 that they were losing to soviet forces in the east, for sure. they were simultaneously also losing to the allied forces coming from the west. once the allies opened that new western front with the d-day invasion, they started pressing their advantage against the nazis come everywhere. they were not only liberating france, they clearly intend to liberate everywhere the nazis have taken over. they are pressing toward germany itself. hitler knows that his military is on the ropes and cannot sustain the losses they are taking on the eastern and western fronts. and so, about six months after- - d-day, about six months after oradour, decides he's going to mount a surprise of his own, he decides he's going to mount a huge, german counteroffensive. in belgium, against the allies. the allies are basically closing in on germany's own borders. and when hitler musters hundreds of thousands of men to mount a counteroffensive in the forest of belgium, it was a surprise, everybody, well, a lot of people thought the war was going to be over by christmas. where did the germans muster 500,000 men to mount this new counteroffensive? but, they did. that counteroffensive started in mid december, 1944. it began a six-week long battle, the single deadliest battle of the entire work for the u.s. military. aside from just the brutal toll of that battle, that was the battle of the bulge, that battle also came with its own, astonishing-- and unforgettable atrocity. there was another german unit much like the one that killed the entire population of the french village of oradour. the unit was in belgium, and and they ended up in the very outset of that counteroffensive, they ambushed a bunch of americans, and the result of it was they took custody of a large group of american prisoners of war, unarmed pow's. they had surrendered, they had no weapons, and the nazis lined up those americans in a field, the americans have no weapons, they have their hands above their heads, they are pows. but, the nazis just massacred them in that field, mowing them down with machine gun fire. and-- like at the village of oradour, what is asked almost as unbelievable, somehow, they were miraculously some survivors. there were some american gis who had also been lined up in that field who nevertheless lived, american gis who played dead, who hid under the dead bodies of their comrades, who managed to drag themselves into the woods to get out of the way. and what happened to them? you will not believe me when i tell you this, but it would not be long before a sitting united states senator would email the object to those who would object what they said about their men and that platoon in the battalion, the other pows who were massacred by those nazis. a sitting u.s. senator tried to block the american soldiers who survived that massacre from giving testimony about it, in congress. he said the american people should not hear it, that it would be inflammatory, that would inflame the public against the nazis, who killed all those unarmed american pows. i find it absolutely insane to think about, but this became a very strange thing in american domestic politics. i mean, there were unrepentant leftover nazis in germany after the war. they were trying to make the allies and and eric in particular the real bad guys from world war ii which is understandable when you think about unrepentant nazis who lost the war. but what's amazing is not that there were leftover nazis trying to do this, the thing you wouldn't believe is that they enlisted a lot of americans to help them in that project. including taking a stand against the american soldiers who survived that pow massacre, and, demanding that the nazis who did it should be set free. this became a cause cilhbre in the right-wing press at the time and launched the national career, the rocketship ascendance of arguably the most radical figure in electoral potter electoral politics before donald trump. while he was swimming in these very dark waters, darker than what seems possible for someone in mainstream american politics, he would go on to lead a movement of millions of followers, who were increasingly radicalized by his increasingly radical rhetoric and tactics over time. his fellow republicans were repelled by him, horrified by the rhetoric, but they also wanted in on the devotion he attracted. they thought very seriously about putting him in form for the presidency, and the reaction among close observers of him and his tactics-- looks so much like what you are seeing in the american press today about the fear of a second trump term. you wouldn't believe it wasn't just a straight up rerun. in his time those who stood up against him mostly got mowed down by his fanatical following. that happened until eventually, ultimately-- it stopped happening. and the forces against him prevailed. and i'm telling you this for two reasons [ laughter ] um-- number-one, this is what i've been working on for the past year. um-- my podcast, rachel maddow reasons ultra, season two is out today. episode one is available anywhere you can get podcasts. if you don't usually listen to podcasts, take out your phone right now, open the camera on your phone and point it at that weird looking circular, square thing, click on the box that pops up on your phone, it will bring you right there, so you can listen to it for free. it's free to listen to. there are eight episodes altogether. episode one is out today. i hope you may want to listen. i've been working hard on it, i'm proud of it, but i hope you like it. i hope you will check it out. that's one of the reasons i'm telling you this story. i have been working on-- this story-- i've been working in general on stories about other times in our american history where we've dealt with really terrible threats to the country, where we have confronted really radical people with really radical designs to undo the fundamental things that make us who we are as a country nevertheless get into political power and attracts large followings. this has happened to us before. and the reason i have in working on this for the past couple years, the reason i've been working, on this, it feels like for me i need to learn this stuff, and fast. for me there is a real urgency to learn these stories now. from when we have contended with terrible challenges before, particularly in why we are talking about powerful americans advocating for authoritarianism or flat-out embodying it particularly when it's about selling factually unhinged conspiratorial lies to the american public, and half the public is mortified and mystified about it, but the other half is super energized by it, and they not only believe these lies-- they kind of become their whole new reason to live-- the public eye for kid like that, sort of earth one and earth two were some are based in reality, and some are based in a different place, and it's emotionally satisfying to them, and radicalizing, and it takes radicalizing for them, and it takes over their lives. we are living through a moment like that right now with what is ascendant on the american right. but, we have lived through it before, and i feel like i'm racing to learn these stories about americans, who have fought these kinds of fights before us for the simple reason that i feel like i need their ideas about how to fight it. [ laughter ] we need their ideas about how to fight these things. we need to see what worked and what didn't when america faced these threats before. that does not mean fighting them always works, sometimes they get away with a lot of this stuff, and people take on incredible risk and danger to themselves. many people risk or give up their lives to fight these things, but knowing the track record of americans who have stood up to these dark and authoritarian and anti- democratic forces, knowing who else has tried it and what happened to them is helpful for us calibrating our available responses, now, and knowing what to expect, when we confront these dark movements. so that is why i have been working on this. that is why this story is on my mind-- tonight. but, it is also was on the news right now. i mean, one of the remarkable things about seeing the french president with the german president at the ruins of oradour today, in france, is that they took that to her tour. they saw what fascism did to europe. just one day after the german far-right and french far- right won shockingly large elections that were held yesterday. and both those countries the parties that did so well have ties not only to the old fascist parties of world war ii era germany and france, they both have current ties, including financial ties to vladimir putin in russia. when president biden and president macron of france met for the commemoration of the 80th anniversary of d-day, president biden said that he and president macron agreed on a new plan to seize russian assets in the g7 countries and use those seized assets to provide even more support to ukraine as ukraine continues to struggle against the russian invasion of that country. president biden is just back from france for the d-day commemoration ceremonies in those meetings with president macron. he's back but heads right back to europe the day after tomorrow to go to the g7 summit, amongst other things, to rally the g7 nations to support this new plan, to support ukraine as much as possible including this new plan he and macron agreed to involving seizing russian assets to help ukraine even more. and-- you know-- in the american aperture here, what's going on in politics while president biden is trying to, you know, rally the free world, trying to strengthen our alliances as much as possible, to lead collective international will against a rogue dictatorship that has invaded one big european country already and has its sights set on more-- here at home, literally while president biden, and other american leaders were headed to europe for the 80th anniversary of d- day, while they were heading to europe for that, but was happening in the american congress? a fit of the republicans in congress voted that we should leave our allies altogether. that we should break up the big western alliance, that we should defund nato. and, i think nobody really paid attention to this vote, because this legislation was put forward by very fringe member of congress-- a member of congress, who is known for her publicity stunts, and she-- she is-- i am eager, but 46 republicans voted for this thing. one fifth of republicans in congress voted to defund nato. don't just forget being the leader of the free world, forget the idea of a free world at all. they save that for the anniversary of d-day. 46 republicans voting to defund nato. and as radical as that may seem, particularly when you think about where nato came from and why, the winged of the republican party that is pushing for this stuff, on its face it seems unlikely that they would have such sway. right? every few days we get a new mug shot of one of their leading lights, because so many of them have been charged with crimes. today it was their presidential candidate's personal lawyer. who, has had his law license suspended, is under indictment, rudy giuliani's mug shot, after he was arraigned in arizona. you can put it up on the wall with all the other maga mugshots we've accrued over the past year. their presidential candidate is a convicted felon. he had to meet with a probation office in new york ahead of his sentencing which happens a month from now. his rally members where t- shirts with his mug shot, they started carrying signs and wearing shirts that now say they are proudly voting for the convicted felon. at a rally this weekend their presidential candidate described members of the mob of supporters who physically attacked congress and injured dozens of police officers, he described them in a speech this weekend as "warriors." his warriors. people who took part in that mob attack on congress. his warriors. well a few days ago two police officers who were badly injured fighting hand-to-hand with that mob to defend congress and defend the u.s. capitol, those two police officers were jeered and booed by republicans in the pennsylvania state legislature. they jeered at them, and turned their backs on them. these are two officers who survived that attack. they were literally injured fighting for their country, defending our seat of government against a violent attack, but, the republicans who jeered at the men turned their backs on them and walked out, they want the attackers freed, and they don't want to hear what the survivors of the attack had to say. they don't want to hear from the survivors and witnesses and want the attackers set free. we are going through some weird stuff right now. but, we have gone through weird stuff before. and, i do think that we can learn from it, and that we urgently need to. that's why i've been working on all these projects. that's why i have this new podcast outcome and i hope you listen. but, it's not just the distant past. in the recent past when we got trump in the white house in the first place you might have remembered what proceeded that shock election result here in the u.s., in 2016. the result in 2016 was proceeded that year by some shocking and surprisingly right wing election results in europe, including the brexit vote . i asked ben rhodes to please join us tonight in the wake of what seemed to be surprisingly right wing election results in europe. was it right in 26 2016 is a harbinger for what was coming for us in the fall of 2016? as president biden balances campaign responsibilities, he just got back from europe, he heads back to europe again on wednesday. do the election results from europe right now this weekend have hallmarks that tell us anything about what to expect here about how weird this is going to get? president biden clearly sees our connections to europe right now as absolutely key to the future of the world. just what's going on in european politics right now tell us anything to expect about the future of our world here? ben rhodes, cohost of the pod save the world podcast, ben, really good to see you. thanks for being here tonight. >> good to see you. >> for some of our viewers who may not have paid close attention to what was happening in the european elections this weekend, the sq two questions. do you think they are important for us to pay attention to? >> sure, these were elections for european parliament. european union did have an election, it's a good barometer of where europe is. the far-right made noticeable gains in the two largest countries, france and germany. the national front party, the front party that used to be on the fringe of french politics emerged as by far the largest alert vote-getter. and this is a party that is not only far- right, they've had ties to russia. they received a $10 million loan from russia in the last decade. this is no conjecture, it's reality. and the adf party that goes back to neo-nazi party, they received an alarming total. now i want to be clear in other parts of europe actually the center did hold, but the two most important countries, france and germany, we saw these far-right gains. >> do you think that um-- it's right to look at 2016 and see what was going on in europe as a harbinger for the shock election result we received in 2016's fall when trump won? should these results be read as a harbinger of what's coming for us? >> i absolutely do, rachel. the commonality between the brexit vote , to leave in 2016, and the trump election, it was a surprise. people did not think brexit was going to win the campaign, and they campaigned on a right-wing populist message, saying take back control. they ran against immigration, liberal elites, and it was very trump-like, foreshadowing what we dealt with in the fall here. i think the warning in this election, rachel, and you asked me a question when i came on to talk about my book a few years ago about far-right parties and their commonalities around the world you asked what lessons should we learn? the lesson i take from this one, rachel, is that their incumbent parties in germany and france that defended essentially the status quo.emmanuel macron has been a defender of the eu. scholz for the so-called national order. you cannot defeat these by being defenders of the status quo. that's hard for president biden, but you have to tap into people's dissatisfaction with globalization, dissatisfaction with any quality, a sense that things are slipping out of control. it's not enough to say we are the responsible adults here. you have to have a different message for how things are going to change, and i think that's the warning sign that joe biden should hear. not enough to defend even the things we think are important. you have to meet people where they are and people are frustrated. >> and rhodes, former deputy of national security to former president obama. ben, thank you for making the time. we need to like, widen the lens a lot for where america is in the world. and you helped a lot. >> thank you, rachel. can't wait to check out the podcast, too. >> thank you. stay with us. ay with us. migraine with or without aura and the preventive treatment of episodic migraine in adults. it's the only migraine medication that helps treat & prevent, all in one. don't take if allergic to nurtec odt. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. people depend on me. without a migraine, i can be there for them. talk to your doctor about nurtec odt today. new centrum menopause supplements help unpause life when symptoms pause it. with a multivitamin plus hot flash support. 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we could all unsubscribe and switch to xfinity. their connection is unreal. and we could all un-experience this whole session. okay, that's uncalled for. let's get down to the nitty- gritty here. in the aftermath of the 2020 election, georgia became this kind of benchmark for principled republicans refusing to go along with improper-- un- american-- machinations from president trump. governor brian kemp, two very conservative republicans nevertheless stood up to personal pressure from trump to overturn president biden's win in georgia. and of course all that pressure trump brought to bear on georgia republicans and the ways in which those republicans resisted. that formed the basis for fulton county district attorney willis against trump and other codefendants. so that's the 2020 election could republicans standing up, the record of them standing up and what they had to stand up against forming the basis for this sprawling, damning criminal indictment. the other story is all the work that protrude republicans pro- trump republicans to make sure that never happens again. no matter what the votes save you the most obvious thing georgia republicans have done is use every tool at their disposal to derail willis' prosecution of trump. in the latest development three republican appointed judges have just put the whole case on hold while they take their time considering whether fani willis should be disqualified from the case, thus guaranteeing that the georgia prosecution will definitely not go forward against trump, before the election. but that's only the start. in georgia's most populous county, fulton county, one republican elections board member refused to certify the primary results they are. because, you know, elections are scary. with the help of lawyers from a pro-trump think tank she has filed a lawsuit seeking power to block the certification of elections, which would throw novembers results in georgia into chaos, which is presumably the point meanwhile just north of fulton county republicans recently started agitating to take over an elections board in cherokee county. now the board there, like other counties in georgia, has always been evenly split between democrats and republicans, but republicans in cherokee county are no longer okay with that, they wanted a full-scale republican takeover. when it was blocked they came up with an ingenious new plan, deciding they would replace one of the democratic commissioners who had been nominated by the local democratic party with their own choice, their own choice for a democrat, a new guy none of the local democrats had ever heard of. but, don't worry, the republicans who run cherokee county swear this guy they picked is definitely a democrat. the atlanta journal- constitution reported the republican commission assured the new board member is a democrat even if the party is unfamiliar with him. i assure you, he's definitely on your team, i know you've never met and i picked him, but- - trust me. pinky promise. meanwhile, at the state elections board in georgia, republicans there started writing a new rule that would allow county elections boards to conduct an "reasonable inquiry" before they certify results. so instead of signing off, they would be empowered instead to investigate those results as they see fit. the constitution notes the proposed rule doesn't say what a reasonable inquiry would entail before certifying an election. yeah, why would you specify that? you definitely want every election denying member in georgia not making it up as they go along, calling their own behavior reasonable. while the presidential election potentially hangs in the balance. speaking of that state elections board one of its republican members was ousted, last month, one of its republican members, after trump reportedly spent months calling georgia republicans, insisting that that election board member had to go, because that person was not backing trump's lies about the 2020 election. and so of course the guy had to go. trump's personal involvement in remaking the georgia state elections board is just one of the revelations in the reporting from rolling stone. that new piece is headlined "georgia is our laboratory: inside trump's plan to rig 2024." allies are trying to make sure there will not be a straightforward election result, giving the swing state status that could be a deciding factor in how this whole election is going to go down. what's happening there? what's happening to try and stop what's happening there? one of the reporters on that piece joined us next. stay with us. stay with us. i t? can this be treated? stop typing. start talking to a specialized urologist. because it could be peyronie's disease, or pd. it's a medical condition where there is a curve in the erection, caused by a formation of scar tissue. and an estimated 1 in 10 men may have it. but pd can be treated even without surgery. say goodbye to searching online. find a specialized urologist who can diagnose pd and build a treatment plan with you. visit makeapdplan.com today. 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>> they are planning to challenge the election result regardless of the result. we think of it if trump loses. in-state polling trump is ahead in georgia if you believe the polling, but what they told us is you cannot let the left getaway with this cheating because it didn't succeed, quotes around cheating, and the plan is to challenge the outcome no matter what. essentially it is a permanent delirium adjacent. i think you mentioned this in your intro is one of the things people should play paper pay close attention to, the fulton presidential primary, because one of the things that's very notable about that is that the attorneys who filed that lawsuit um-- work for america first, a very trump leaning organization. what you see is the legal january 6th in miniature, essentially. you are taking someone who is acting beyond their brief anti- trying assessment of vote tallies. >> adam, is this actually a fight in georgia? i think you know importantly that georgia is a place where republicans control all of the levers of power. we played the sound of one democratic member of the state elections board getting shouted down when she talked about brad roethlisberger. is this pushback, or are they running the table? >> they definitely have quite the built-in advantage, and i think that's why georgia, relative to other battleground states is particularly interesting, because it is more so than perhaps any other state fight for the soul republican party when it comes to their faith in free and fair elections. and yet, even folks like brian kemp, who was an absolute obstacle to trump's attempt to illegally overturn the election in georgia, brian kemp a law that allows for a range of sort of procedural, joe biden called it jim crow of the 21st century. even folks who have proven themselves to be obstacles to some of the more overt aspects of it, sometimes will just go along to get along. and so they have an advantage, and they are running the table in certain ways, but you see folks like you mentioned earlier, like lindsay, whose resignation letter we obtained in the story. people like that do still have these principled republicans who are willing to stand up for what they believe in, but as you saw with the case of ed, he resigned under a great deal of pressure, not just from president trump, but from the grassroots of the party who believed in a lot of election conspiracies. >> the bare fact a presidential candidate is personally lobbying to remove individual state elections board members ought to be on the front page and every paper in the country. adam, you and all those who worked on this article of georgia as trump's laboratory, thank you so much. stay with us. because there ar e places you'd like to be. farxiga can cause serious side effects, including ketoacidosis that may be fatal, dehydration, urinary tract, or genital yeast infections, and low blood sugar. a rare, life-threatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. stop taking farxiga and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of this infection, an allergic reaction, or ketoacidosis. ♪ far-xi-ga ♪ oooh! i can't wait for this family getaway! shingles doesn't care. shingles is a painful, blistering rash that can last for weeks. ahhh, there's nothing like a day out with friends. that's nice, but shingles doesn't care! 99% of adults 50 years or older already have the virus that causes shingles inside them, and it can reactivate at any time. a perfect day for a family outing! guess what? 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that meeting could be particularly nerve-racking for him because-- you know, one of the things a probation officer asks you after you are convict did a felonies is if you been associating with anyone who has a criminal record. that's worth noting, because if he is ultimately sentenced to probation next month while he's on probation he will not be allowed to associate with anyone with a criminal record, and for many that would not be a big deal, but for him that's a big deal, that restriction eats away at a lot of his very close social circle. so, maybe that was all distracting him, i don't know. whatever the reason he decided to venture into new territory in his campaign speech yesterday. we are five months out from the election, this is an important swing state, and he supposed what the landlocked state of nevada voters needed to hear was his fear of boats, heavy boats, boats with batteries, and your sharks. you know, nevada sharks-- i know you have heard this happened. he might have seen a headline or scrolled past it on social media feed. have you actually watched it, uncut, straight through? it is-- very-much worth watching. it's astonishing. you can see people at the rally behind him, who are really trying to follow along but clearly have no earthly idea what he's saying. >> what would happen if the boat sank from its weight, and you're in the boat, and you have this tremendously powerful battery? in the batteries now underwater? and there's a shark that's approximately 10 yards over there? by the way, a lot of shark attacks lately, have you noticed that? i watched some guys justifying it today. well they were really that angry, they bit off the young lady's leg because of the fact they were-- not hungry, but they misunderstood who she was. these people are-- he said there's no problem with sharks, they just didn't really understand a young woman swimming now got decimated, and so i say there is a shark 10 yards away from the boat. 10 yards. do i get electrocuted if the boat is sinking in water goes over the battery, the boat is sinking, do i stay on top of the boat and get electrocuted, or do i jump over by the shark and not get electrocuted? he didn't know the answer, he said you know, nobody has ever asked me that question. i said i think it's a good question, i think there's a lot of electric current coming through that water, but you know what i would do if there was a shark, or you get electrocuted? i'll take electrocuted every single time. i'm not getting near the shark. so we could end that, we could end it for boats. >> we are going to end it for boats. we are going to end it for boats. vote accordingly. pet food. they're quitting the kibble. and kicking the cans. and feeding their dogs dog food that's actually well, food. developed with vets. made from real meat and veggies. portioned for your dog. and delivered right to your door. it's smarter, healthier pet food. get 50% off your first box at thefarmersdog.com/realfood nothing dims my light like a migraine. with nurtec odt, i found relief. the only migraine medication that helps treat and prevent, all in one. to those with migraine, i see you. for the acute treatment of migraine with or without aura and the preventive treatment of episodic migraine in adults. don't take if allergic to nurtec odt. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. it's time we all shine. talk to a healthcare provider about nurtec odt from pfizer. we're looking for adults 45 and under to be in our hpv vaccination ad. sound like you? 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