Transcripts For MSNBCW The 20240704

Driver at gunpoint and fled to new jersey where he was tracked to a home in trenton but somehow managed to slip out of the home but was eventually apprehended nearby. Joining me now nbc news correspondent george solis on the scene in trenton, new jersey. George, what can you tell us now . That the suspect has been apprehended. Reporter yeah, learned about this within the last 20 minutes that this individual, this 26yearold accused of killing three of his Family Members somehow managed to slip by the s. W. A. T. Presence here and not to mention state police and fbi agents who had a presence here and was apprehended. Without incident were told basically give up and is now in police custody. However, whether or not he was apprehended with any weapons that he may have had at him at the time of his surrendering. Now what were seeing is report of the dismantling of the scene. Theres still the Police Presence and police tape here and we have seen some of the officers actually in the Background Congregating presumably they will go ahead and clear this scene within a little while and im told the mayor is also here within the vicinity being briefed about all of this here about where the suspect was apprehended and his connection to the area. If i can reset the scene for you a little bit. Authorities from bucks county telling us lethis began with a carjacking here in the trenton area earlier this morning before he crossed over into pennsylvania into bucks county. And carried out these three alleged murders. Then he also carjacked an individual in pennsylvania stealing a honda crv panel an suvtype before dumping it off here in the trenton neighborhood and barricading himself inside this home. Authorities telling me there were no more hostages and it was just him inside the home and he was believed to be alive for some time but obviously were learning from all this, before the whole perimeter was set up. The 26yearold suspect somehow slipped by police and apprehended here in the trenton area. Not very far where this has been taking place. The more pressing questions where was he islanding out and how hid degette out and why of course he carried out the three alleged murders. Jonathan. George, just to reiterate again, did police say in the information that you got whether they found a weapon on andre gordon . Reporter yeah, thats a question that we are asking and we have not received an answer at this avpoint. They are only telling us he was taken into custody without incident. All right, nbc news george solis coming to us live from trenton, new jersey. Thank you very much for that report. Lets bring in dr. Errol suthers a former fbi special agent. Former fbi s. W. A. T. Team member and professor of the practice in national and Homeland Security at the university of southern california. Dr. Suthers, thank you for being here. Andre gordon had been holed up in that house on Phillips Avenue since about 12 20 p. M. Eastern time. How did he manage to slip out to another location with all that Law Enforcement presence on the ground and drones in ther air . Jonathan, thats a very good question. What i would have to assume is that he was not holed up in the house initially. When he went initially and startled everybody inside the resident and as police were responding and people were trying to get out that he likely walked out before the house was secure certainly before the perimeter was secure and may have actually walked amongst the people the residents in the neighborhood as they were being evacuated. He may have walked amongst them to a safe location where everybody assembled. Im going to assume he was not in the house for very long and he has the presence of the mind to get out of there before the perimeter was set up and unfortunately didnt take anybody else hostage or hurt anyone else in the process. And as weve said, andre gordon, the suspect, was apprehended alive. What do you think went into maybe not the negotiations to end the standoff. But how i mean, he was apprehended alive. The question is whether there was a weapon on him or not. But how did we get to a peaceful resolution in this situation . Well, as was mentioned previously, patience certainly if there was a conversation had with him, trying to reason with him. Unfortunately, everyone he killed today had some relationship to him. So it seems that he was very intent on harming people that he knew. And not harming anyone else. Even in the carjacking and the other crimes that he committed along the way. So it also appeared that he did not want to take his own life or be killed by the police. Theres a conversation that you can have and they obviously did have if hehe was still in there with him to reason with him there was no need for any other persons to lose their lives much important most importantly him. And to come out alive. And unfortunately, he was already gone. But thats the kind of conversation you would have with a person like that. Is empathy and trying to reason with them to give up. Dr. Suthers, the suspect is reportedly homeless. So im just wondering, how might have he gotten an ar15 and from whom . That will be the question everyone will need to answer right off and thats how this all started. As you put this forensic information together as now we look toward prosecution, it will start with a trail and a timeline with a the very first crime which was the carjacking. Was he armed and was he armed with the alleged weapon that we described. How did he get it and was it purchased legally . Was it obtained illegally and as you mentioned he was an unhoused individual. Did he have the resources to obtain a weapon like that . Was it taken in one of the other crimes . So this is going to be a very important question to how he obtained that weapon and most importantly, aphow was it used along the way with regards to the Killing Spree that happened this afternoon. All right. Dr. Errol suthers, thank you very much hfor coming to The Saturday Show and lending your perspective on this Breaking News saturday. Up next, up next republicans are left scrambling as their Impeachment Probe against President Biden runs on fumes. What The White House is demanding now and how House Speaker mike johnson is responding. Congressman mike nsgarcia joins me live with his reaction. And later, an historic visit by Vice President Kamala Harris and why it could be a defining moment in the 2024 campaign. Much more ahead on this sunday show. The saturday show. Next. 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Its tmobile. It started when we got him under a new plan. But then they unexpectedly unraveled their price lock guarantee. Which has made him, a bit. Unruly. You called yourself the uncarrier. You sing about price lock on those commercials. The price lock, the price lock. So, if you could change the price, change the name its not a lock, i know a lock. So how can we undo the damage . We could all unsubscribe and switch to xfinity. Their connection is unreal. And we could all unexperience this whole session. Okay, thats uncalled for. The white house is going on offense. On friday, in an unprecedented letter to republican House Speaker mike johnson, white House Counsel ed sis coal declared the Impeachment Investigation into President Biden is quote, over. And urged the speaker to quote, move on. He called out republicans failure to produce any evidence that links biden to any crime, even after theyve reportedly collected more than 100,000 pages of records, interviewed dozens of witnesses, and held public hearings. And dont forget, their central witness, well, he was arrested for lying to the fbi. Speaker johnsons spokesman responded to The White Houses counsels letter on x stating quote, The White House doesnt get to decide how impeachment gets resolved. Thats for congress to decide. But just this week, the House Speaker admitted that hes not paying much attention to the investigation. Or the socalled evidence. To be very frank with you, very honest, and transparent, because i have been so busy with all my other responsibilities, i have not been able to take the time to do the deep dive in the evidence. What has been uncovered is alarming. Theres a lot of things that we believe have violated the law. Does it does it reach the high crimes treason high crimes Misdemeanor Standard . Everyone will have to make that evaluation when we pull all the evidence together. Joining me now is Robert Garcia, member of the House Oversight committee and house Homeland Security committee. Thank you for coming to The Saturday Show. I see you shaking your head. Articulate your reaction to the speakers comments there. I mean, look, it is time for the Impeachment Sham to be over. I mean, mike johnson can barely keep a majority and republicans retiring right and left. Weve known from day one that this entire impeachment stunt has been about damaging President Biden and helping donald trump get reelected. And like hes noted, the you know, long list of witnesses that have been brought for Wardended Up Being chinese spies and disgraced former mafia bosses and Business People that are in jail and Rudy Giuliani Conspiracy Theorists so this whole thing has been a complete joke. Its time to move forward and really glad that The White House sent that letter because we have essentially wasted months and months and months of time we can actually be doing work for the american people. On essentially this donald trump expedition and i want to remind people as well, this entire impeachment stunt started with Marjorie Taylor greene and actually filed the initial impeachment papers against President Biden. So this is all the far right extreme magas trying to damage the president. But its time to move on. Like day two of the biden presidency . Right. So congressman, New York Times and politico reported that House Republicans are looking for some type of backup plan including issuing criminal referrals against biden and his inner circle. How can they issue criminal referrals without any evidence at all that the president committed a crime . Well, first lets not forget that the modern Republican Party doesnt doesnt really care about evidence anymore or facts. Or truth. They are completely worked in their world view of doing whatever it takes to support, you know, their orange king. Donald trump. And i mean, that is what they are obsessed about. So the facts dont matter. And weve been arguing and myself included, if were going to talk about real corruption or real crime, then republicans need to look in the mirror and start investigating Jarred Kushner who we know got a 2 billion payout from the saudi government and actually starting to put together much larger Land Acquisition deals with other foreign governments. This is someone who had complete access and worked in The White House. This whole impeachment effort is a project. What happened in the trump white house, the president is trying to do his job. This Impeachment Sham is over. I think mike johnson needs to do the right thing and just move on. We have a lot of work to do. And you have been one of the members of congress who keeps trying to shine the spotlight on Jarred Kushner when it comes to alleged corruption. So congressman, lets switch gears and talk about tiktok. Because on wednesday, the house passed with an overwhelming bipartisan majority passed a bill that would force tiktoks chinese owner bytedance to either sell tiktok or face a ban in the United States. The Driving Reason is that the Social Media Platform poses a National Security risk. You voted against the bill. Does that mean those National Security concerns are overblown. Why did you vote no . Yeah, i mean, i joined, you know, 50 other democrats and also i joined the highest ranking democrat on the intelligence committee. Who made very clear that there was not yet any sort of National Security concern over our data and the Chinese Government. Who of course are adversaries and of course were competitive with but lets be real honest about whats happening. We have an app that 170 million americans use. Onethird of allamerica are on tiktok and yes, there are real data privacy concerns but thats the case on every platform whether its meta and facebook whether its x. We saw what happened on facebook and the last election cycle and so this idea that were going to target this one Social Media Platform without yet any direct evidence that our data is being manipulated by the Chinese Government i think was the absolute wrong approach. I vote at strong no and its really important at this moment that we focus on data broadly. But to single out the app is particularly the main space where young people are communicating every day i think is a huge not just policy mistake, its also a huge political mistake. So im urging the senate to slow this down. This was the fastest moving bill that i have seen in my one year in congress and from what i hear, from a more veteran members, they dont remember a bill moving so fast through the floor. So i am very concerned. We all share the Data Concerns but theres a better approach than what we just did. Yeah. As im a nonmember of congress. And i can tell you, i have not seen a bill move that fast through congress in my 17 years of following congress here in washington. But you mentioned the political problem here. You know, President Biden said he would sign the bill if it passes the senate. So would that be a political mistake, especially in the eyes of young voters . Think its a political mistake to go forward with the process without any sort of guarantee this will not lead to a disruption of service or a ban. Theres in guarantee in the bill that we wont end up at a ban of tiktok or certainly not disruption for a period of time. Now imagine a service that is being used by 170 million americans. And the main source of communication for young people across this country. And All Of A Sudden thats interrupted . We know who young people are going to assign blame to that that instance. We have to be very careful and the senate needs to take its same and we have to ensure that people understand that for so many young people, its where people gather. 7 million americans use tiktok as the main source of income for the Small Business and millions other businesses and Small Business owners rely on tiktok to actually get referrals. I dont know that all my colleagues in congress understand the power of this social media tool. Yes, we should be concerned. Yes, theres data privacy issues. But this bill is not the right approach. Congressman Robert Garcia of california as always thank you for coming to The Saturday Show. Coming up next, with a tight race in the Ohio Republican Senate Primary, donald trump is rallying with a candidate whos the subject of a bombshell report. Plus, trumps former Vice President says he wont endorse him. Well chew on that with our political panel. 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Tonight, the four times indicted on 88 counts former president is in Ohio Rallying Support for bernie moreno. A former car dealer and Senate Candidate whos never held public office. Now according to an Associated Press report, moreno could be linked to a 2008 profile on an Adult Website that was seeking casual sexual encounters with men. A former intern for moreno says he created the account as a prank. According to the a. P. Moreno used to be a supporter of lgbtq rights but now is a hard line opponent. Joining me now, amecia cross democratic strategist and former advisor for the Obama Campaign and Stewart Stevens Senior Advisor for the Lincoln Project and author of the book the conspiracy to end america five ways my old party is driving my democracy to autocracy. Stewart, ohios Senate Primary happening this tuesday and Republican Leaders are worried about the possibility of moreno winning the senate nomination, do they have reason to worry . Look, i think Sherwood Brown is probably going to win this race. You know, i have to say this stuff about his personal life or that you know, that stuff really kind of disgusts me and i wish we didnt get into that kind of stuff. I dont think it has any place in politics and i dont care and i dont think most people care about that stuff. But whats really more important here is that you have got two people who support trumpism who dont believe the president of the United States is legal and this is ohio and it has been a state that you know, history of such great leaders. So i dont know. I like Sherwood Browns chances. Hes a very, very appealing, interesting, unusual personable guy. I mean, that coming from you, stuart is big, because a lot of people are looking at that ohio race as being one of the endangered seats whether endangered for the democratic majority. Switching gears here stuart. Because former Vice President mike pence did something yesterday far too many republicans have been willing to do. Watch this. It should come as no surprise that i will not be endorsing donald trump this year. Donald trump is pursuing an articulating an agenda that is at odds with the conservative agenda that we governed on during our four years. And thats why i cannot in good conscience endorse donald trump in this campaign. Go ahead. Mike pence, why stuart, why is pence breaking ranks now . Yeah. I mean, you know, the problem is we knew mike pence before he was a virgin. But look im glad that he is [ laughter ] where he is now. I think in life, we probably have to meet people where they are. And so its a binary choice. Either endorse trump or not endorse. Think its better for the country that he not endorse trump. I dont really like the idea that donald trump is not running on this conservative agenda. Just say he attempted to kill me and overthrow the government of the United States. But look, i would consider it and i would put it in a positive column. Uhhuh. Let me turn to you. And talk about the significance of Vice President harris visit to the Planned Parenthood Clinic in minnesota. On thursday. Its historically significant in many ways and first and foremost womens reproductive rights on the ballot. We know thats going to this that has been a unifying figure for both democrats, republicans, and everybody in between. Womens reproductive rights have taken the polls and the midterms. Theyve done the same thing in a lot of the special elections and quite frankly as republicans try to continue to peel away womens reproductive rights up to and including Birth Control and up and including measures to restrict abortion in and of itself but also eradicate the clinics. Also that the vp talked about exactly what these clinics do. Someone who suffers from fibroids myself i went to a Planned Parenthood Clinic for my fibroid care. It was not for abortion. And i think that for individuals who recognize what these clinics do and what they are for, less than 3 of planned parenthood funds go towards abortion. The majority. The overwhelming majority, is for womens Reproductive Health care so that means your annual physical exams and that means uterine care. And that means you know, these test to ensure that everything is working the way it should but also to flag things when they may not be specifically for low income women and women who may not have insurance. Thats the thing that people need to understand. Planned parenthood a lot of people go just for general care. General care you were just talking about. Punch bowl news is reporting that republicans, theyre leaning in on the Abortion Issue too but on the anti abortion messaging side in 2024. Have they learned nothing . You just talked about the fact that it was a big issue in the midterms and special elections around the country including in ruby red kansas and yet, they dont want to believe the red flags. Its just showing itself to be the thing that they cannot rise above. Even though their voters are actually supporting democrats here. This is very its very interesting to see the republicans are so far outside the mainstream here. My grandfather was a mississippian. If you see a fool knock him on the head. Thats whats happening here. Over and over again they cant get out of their own way. Women, conservative women, often as well, they actually are forming their own pacs in states across the country to fight against some of the abortion restrictions, republicans will not win on this. A couple of minutes left and i cant have you both here without talking about republican Congressman Ken Buck who announced hes leaving congress at the end of next week. Listen to what he had to say. What has frustrated you so much about this era of politics and in particularly congress. Whats made it so difficult. You really need me the say that. You need me to explain what is so difficult about this place. Weve taken impeachment and weve made it a social media issue. As opposed to constitutional concept. This place just keeps going downhill. And i dont need to spend my time here. Both of you to give your response. But Congressman Buck is 100 right. Stuart, will voters punish republicans for this level of dysfunction. I actually think they are. Congress is not getting anything done. Kind of two levels of the impact here, one theyre not doing anything to improve peoples lives and that ultimately affects voters and i mean the way things trickle down and affect them matters. And i think also theres just something about it that seems small and petty. That theyre up there talking about stuff that people really dont care about. From Hunter Bidens laptop to, you know, trying to impeach random people in d. C. I think that it shows its a small party. And you know, believe it or not, there really was a time when republicans were like to say were a party of big ideas. I mean, Ronald Reagan standing in front of the berlin wall. Big stuff. And this is really small petty stuff and i think people just find that unappealing. What do you think . Absolutely. I think that were going to see voters really push back against this because they know theres nothing impeachable with joe biden and the Hunter Biden Case has nothing to do with it. And that hes literally trying the republicans are literally trying to impeach everyone in bidens cabinet at this point. All of this at the behest of doing the work of the americanpublic. Theyve done nothing. They blew up the immigration bill. At this point it doesnt make sense why most of the republicans are here because they cant get ahead of themselves. Its a mess. It is a mess. Couple of things on i went and took myself out to lunch and the few hours after ken buck announced his resignation and he came walking into the restaurant for his nice little lunch. And but also one other thing people being impeached for this that and the other. Lets remember something. The department of Homeland Security Secretary Mayorkas was ohm peached by The White House and yet the articles of impeachment are still sitting there. They have not been sent over to the senate . Why go through the exercise if you are not going to complete ther and . Thank you very much for coming to The Saturday Show. And coming up, coming up, another complicated week in the many legal efforts to hold donald trump accountable. Georgia, new york, maralago. Theres so much to catch up on. Well dig into how these new developments could determine whether trump will go on trial in these cases before the november election. Stay with us. Or ted, which may need a different doctor. 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Think youre not at risk . Wake up. Because shingles could wake up in you. If youre over 50, talk to your doctor or pharmacist about shingles prevention. You know that thing your family does . Someone made it a thing, back in the day. But where did it come from . Ancestry can help you find out. Lucky you, its on sale now. When my doctor gave me breztri for my copd, things changed for me. Breztri gave me better breathing, symptom improvement, and reduced flare ups. Breztri wont replace a Rescue Inhaler for sudden breathing problems. It is not for asthma. Tell your doctor if you have a Heart Condition or high Blood Pressure before taking it. Dont take breztri more than prescribed. Breztri may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. Call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. Ask your doctor about breztri. Were continuing to follow Breaking News out of trenton, new jersey. Police have confirmed that Shooting Suspect andre gordon has now been taken into custody. This morning, gordon allegedly killed three of his Family Members in neighboring falls township, pennsylvania. After the shootings, police said gordon then carjacked a driver at gunpoint and fled to new jersey where he was tracked to a home in trenton. That led to hours long standoff but somehow, gordon managed to slip out of the home and was eventually apprehended nearby. Now we turn to a big week in Donald Trumps many trials. In georgia, Fulton County Dafani Willis will not be disqualified. In the 23 page ruling on friday the judge found there was no actual conflict resulting from the relationship between Special Prosecutor nathan wade and willis. But judge mcafee took things a step further by establishing there was quote a significant appearance of impropriety and ruling the case could move forward as long as wade stepped down. Just hours after the ruling, wade submitted his resignation. Meanwhile, in new york, the judge overseeing trumps Hush Money Case Pushed The Trial originally scheduled for march 25th until at least midapril. Trumps team initially sought a 909 day adjournment and outright dismissal of the case after they received Tens Of Thousands of pages of New Discovery material from the manhattan u. S. Attorneys office. Manhattan da alvin bragg who supported a 30 day delay says theres no basis for dismissal and the documents are quote, largely irrelevant to the Subject Matter of this case. And in trumps federal classified documents case, his teams efforts to get the case thrown out took a hit this week. Judge Eileen Cannon rejected one motion that argued the Espionage Act statute was unfairly vague when applied to a former president. And cannon also expressed doubt over trumps claim that the president ial records act prevents his prosecution. Joining me now Glen Kirshner and host of the Justice Matters podcast and melissa redmond. Professor at the university of Georgia School of law. Thank you both very much for being here. Glen, your reaction to how judge mcafee reached the decision here that Rebukes Da Willis but still allows the georgia case to move forward. You know, jonathan on the upside judge mcafee after a lengthy everett Chair Hearingconcluded that willis the District Attorney should not be removed or disqualified from the case. She will continue to head up the rico prosecution of donald trump and his 18 criminal associates, his coconspirators and his codefendants. He also found there was really there was no financial gain by her having hired nathan wade and then having a relationship with him. He found there was no prejudice to any defendant and no due process violation. However, he then went on to say well, under georgia law, the appearance of impropriety is enough for me to put a remedy in place and the remedy i choose is that either nathan wade can remove himself or fani willis and her office can remove themselves from the case. Not surprisingly, nathan wade promptly tendered his letter of resignation and willis accepted it. You know, i think judge mcafee went little bit too far. I i think he used some really heavy handed and inflammatory language when sort of condemning the things that he perceived as either unseemly. And i dont know that he had to go that far. But i think it was the right call. That because theres absolutely no conflict, and absolutely no prejudice to any defendant of course fani willis and the District Attorneys office should not be recused from the case. So melissa, lets talk about the age Family Tour Language because judge mccay fee criticized Da Willis Citing Quote A Significant appearance of impropriety and even that quote an odor of mendacity remains around her actions. How could language like that have an impact on willis as a prosecutor . Well, we know that there are many challenges that da willis will face outside of this particular motion to disqualify and in fact judge mcafee mentioned some of those in his order that there are other means by which any perceived impropriety or dishonesty or misconduct on behalf of the da can be handled. Be it through the state bar of georgia, theres a state Senate Committee currently investigating the District Attorney and the newly formed Prosecutorial Oversight Commission that was signed into law. Admittedly will be subject to some legal challenges before it takes effect but we can best believe one of the first things well be investigating will be a complaint promptly filed against da willis. When he puts in the order after finding, you know, some may question whether or not they the da and the Special Prosecutor actually split costs. That information was or that testimony was never refuted or proved or discredited by the defense. But these a reasonable person could possibly believe that if nathan wade were to continue on the team, that those issues will continue to arise. But if you found that theres maybe an appearance of impropriety although their testimony was not discredited by the defense, it seems you know, fortuitous to me to put in that type of language. That well, they could have been lying. I dont think that was necessary for him to make his point that she should not have hired someone she was in a relationship with. And just leave it at that. So i think a lot of that language was in factunnecessary. The Hush Money Trial in new york has been pushed back but still a hearing on march 25th. What can we expect out of that hearing. You know, the judge asked the parties to give him a detailed timeline about why there have been some late disclosures of documents and this one really gets me jonathan because it looks like the late disclosures were not a product of alvin bragg and his prosecutors but of who no the Department Of Justice specifically the Southern District of new york u. S. Attorneys office an arm of the Department Of Justice. The reporting is that alvin bragg asked for documents ages ago. And for whatever reason, doj seems to be very late in turning things over. What i can tell you is a former career prosecutor, is that when you get stuff and you turn it over to the defense in you know, on the eve of trial or within a week or so of trial, delay is very likely to occur. And the reason im so concerned that the doj seems to be the one that for whatever reason was dragging its heels, we have yet to see the doj prosecute a single solitary member of the hierarchy of the insurrection. The suits of the insurrection. And now this delay and ill give them the benefit of the doubt that it was unintentional. It was not designed to slow the manhattan District Attorneys prosecution. But it, in fact, has slowed. And derailed prefer at least it looks like 30 days and maybe longer. It has slowed the prosecution of a former president who is about to go to trial on march 25th. I very much look forward to what the u. S. Attorneys office and the Department Of Justice has to say about it because i assume it will be all in that detailed timeline that alvin braggs prosecutors and trumps Defense Attorneys present to judge marshan on march 25th. We have about 30 seconds left. Do you think the new york case is till on track to go on trial before the november election . I think its possible that it could be before the november election. I think there may be another slight delay after march 25th. It appears from da braggs filing yesterday the department indicated there would be more documents forthcoming next week. Depending whats in the documents and how relevant they are to the case, that may push the 30 day delay out a little bit if they feel like the defendant needs more time. But i also want to note that it was defense who were able to get those documents from the subpoena. And it appears that da brag asked for them over a year ago and the Justice Department declined to give them to him. When donald trump subpoenaed them in january, they are now being turned over. That seemed odd to me as well. That one Prosecutor Office wouldnt give them over you know, more timely to another prosecution office. With that we have to leave it there. Melissa and glen, thank you both very much for coming to The Saturday Show. Up next, israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahus plans for a Ground Offensive on rafah ratchets up tensions with President Biden. And ambassador dennis ross, former u. S. Envoy to the middle east, joins me live in studio next to discuss why he believes israel needs a new strategy. Because there are places youd like to be. Farxiga can cause serious side effects, including ketoacidosis that may be fatal, dehydration, urinary tract, or genital yeast infections, and low blood sugar. A rare, lifethreatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. Stop taking farxiga and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of this infection, an allergic reaction, or ketoacidosis. Farxiga heres to Getting Better with age. Heres to beating these two every thursday. Help fuel today with boost high protein, complete nutrition you need. Without the stuff you dont. So, heres to now. Boost. You always got your mind on the green. Not you. 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And this week, Senate Majority leader Chuck Schumer the highest ranking elected jewish official in the country called for a twostate solution and called out netanyahu on the senate floor. Prime minister netanyahu has lost his way. By allowing his political survival to take the precedence over the best interests of israel. I believe that holding a new election, once the war starts to wind down, would give israelis an opportunity to express their vision for the post war future. And here was President Bidens thoughts on Senator Schumers speech. Im not going to elaborate on his speech. He made a good speech. And i think he expressed a serious concern and shared not only by him but by many americans. Joining me now ambassador dennis ross a farmer u. S. Envoy to the middle east. And ambassador ross, thank you very much for coming to The Saturday Show. So do you think President Biden and Senator Schumers tough words will have any impact on Prime Minister netanyahu . Probably not in the near term. The speech was probably a reflection of Senator Schumers concerns and the fact that somebody like Senator Schumer has been such a close and strong supporter for israel that he would Say Something like that. It will be noticed in israel for sure. In the near term a kind of natural backlash over that but over time people are going to ask the question how is it possible that someone like senator Chuck Schumer always been a strong supporter of israel. Possible that hes saying that and maybe we need to think about why thats the case. You wrote about this in foreign affairs. One of the things, netanyahu keeps claiming is that he wants to declare total victory over hamas. No, its only a slogan. Theres a need to have a Military Objective thats achievable. There is one. Thats demilitarization. Israel is in fact succeeding in demilitarizing gaza and hamas. What would be important for the administration is to work out an agreement with the Prime Minister. What is enough and hamas will find it very difficult to reconstitute itself militarily and no remilitarization of gaza afterwards. Is it twostate solution still viable . At this point. It is. The key is, can you provide separation between the two peoples . On both sides theres going to have to be pretty profound changes. Its hard flight. The psychological trauma in israel. The sense of loss is to great and the perception if there was a palestinian state it would be led by hamas is something that basically among most israelis says thats an impossibility. On the other side you have the palestinians who suffered their own set of traumas. And theyre not thinking in terms of what do we need to do to reassure the israelis . So we need to on the one hand deal with the humanitarian issue. Get beyond the war. And then begin to create a set of obligations on the palestinian side to demonstrate look, if were going to have a state, its not going to be a failed staid. Its not going to be a state that can be led by hamas. Committed to coexistence and on the israeli side there has to be a readiness to not take steps that makes a two state outcome impossible. Calling for new elections that netanyahu needs to go. A poll a survey from the institute found that if an election were held now. Benny gantzs National Party would win 34 seats whereas netanyahus party would win 17 seats. Basically if that happened, netanyahu would be out as Prime Minister and benny gantz could be the new Prime Minister. Interesting. Because he was gantz was just here last week. In defiance of netanyahu. Right. Look, i think obviously you always take polls with a certain grain of salt. Oh, yeah. But theres been a pattern to the polls that gives you some reason to see that a political reckoning is going to take place. Its impossible in israel to have october 7th. Impossible not to think that wont produce a political reckoning. And my guess is well see a different Israeli Government at some point. When that election will take place, its hard to predict that at this point. Because i think its tied up very much with the character of the war and the timing of this war. One more question for you. I asked the president a week ago today whether he invited to address the israeli parliament. Would he go and he flat out said yes. Would that be a wise thing for the president to do . Right now. I would say probably not. And the reason i say that is if hes going to the parliament to look like hes appealing over the head of the Prime Minister, there could be kind of instinctive reaction to that which says well take make our own decisions. Look, say whatever decisions you make here in israel, they are your decisions, that could be a different story. But right now, being asked for my recommendation, i would say hold my horses. Ambassador dennis ross, thank you very much for coming to The Saturday Show. My pleasure. And a Programming Note for tomorrow. Tune in to Meet The Press and join Kristen Welker for exclusive interview with Chef Jose Andres to discuss. And we just learned that nathan wade the Special Prosecutor who just resigned on the georgia interference case will be a guest on Meet The Press. Thats tomorrow on nbc and check the local listings. And that will do it for me today. Thank you for watching. And be sure to tune in tomorrow to the sunday show. When quentin folks for President Biden joins us live to weigh in on the election rematch between the president and donald trump. Thats tomorrow at 6 00 p. M. Eastern right here on msnbc. Keep it here, Amon Mulldean is up next. Which is why downy does more to make clothes softer, fresher, and better. Downy. Breathe life into your laundry. Introducing, neds plaque psoriasis. He thinks his flaky red patches are all people see. Otezla is the 1 prescribed pill to treat plaque psoriasis. Otezla can help you get clearer skin. 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