trump says he will get rid of the popular health care program if elected again, as north carolina becomes the latest state to expand medicaid. that states governor, roy cooper, joins me to discuss. and sashay away, george santos becomes the first member of congress sixfold were the 20 years. with more than half of its republican colleagues voting to give him the boot. you just know tara setmayer will have something to say about that. no jonathan capehart, this is the saturday show. >> we begin this morning with the israel-hamas war, where the israeli military is intensifying its attacks on southern gaza after a week long pause in fighting came to an end. the idf says within just the last 24 hours, it struck more than 400 targets across the gaza strip with airstrikes, tank fire, and its navy. according to the hamas-run health industry in gaza, that least 200 palestinians have been killed since the fighting resumed. secretary of state antony blinken in dubai yesterday blamed hamas for ending the seven-day pause, and the white house says it's working with israel and qatar to broker a another pause in fighting with hamas. meanwhil nbc news has learned that three months ago, israeli military analysts have learned their superiors to a serious plan to sign to start a war by hamas mitants, but their concerns were dismissed by eir superiors, according to this really from individual familiar tter. cells reporting from new york times that israeli officials were warned hamas is planning a mass assault more than a year before it's happened. but israeli military and intelligence officials reportedly dismissed the plan, as aspirational, considering it too difficult for hamas to carry out. joining me now, evelyn farkas, executive director of the mccain institute and former deputy assistant secretary of defense for russia ukraine and eurasia, and david ignatius, foreign affairs columnist and associate editor at the washington post, and an msnbc contributor, evelyn david, thank you both very much for coming to the saturday show. let me start with you, david. has the reporting from the new york times and nbc news had any impact on the dynamics at work in the region right now, we're where the consequences, particularly for is really prime minister benjamin netanyahu not be seen until after the war is over? >> so jonathan, i, in general, the assessment of how this catastrophe of the october seven attack happens has been deferred until after the war it's completed. but every israeli knows that the basic facts of how unprepared the country was, of how divided it was by prime minister netanyahu's political campaign for judicial changes. what's new and stunning is that within the intelligence services, which, as you know, process, there was detailed information about precisely the kind of attack that took place on october 7th. it is still not clear to me from, the reporting, whether that intelligence got all the way to the prime minister, whether netanyahu himself was informed about the new york times called, jericka will wall, which was planned to break out of a gaza fence, pretty much exactly like what happened on the 7th of october. but we do know is within the intelligence services ourselves, those reports were downplayed. analysts said, this is real. this is happening. this is a real plan, and more senior people said, no, we don't believe. it so, did it go all the way to the prime minister, who is responsible for just rolling forward into this nightmare? we don't know yet. >> let me follow up with you, david. this morning, all attending the cop28 conference in dubai, vice president harris met with the president of egypt, and had a call with the amir of qatar. and i haven't checked my email to see any readout of other calls were meetings, but the readouts note, yost kmiec it's rockets to -- release all the hostage. was this noticeable to be -- the vice president discussed the importance of planning for the day after the fighting ends in gaza. am i overstating the importance of that? >> i think u.s. officials have been talking about the day after, urging israel to think more about the day after for some weeks now. my strongest impression, when i was in israel briefly, in gaza, was that there simply had it been clear thinking on the israeli side about how this war will end, and what comes after the u.s.. suppressing to think about that. the rays, i'm told, a task force with senior u.s. and senior israeli officials, trying to think about ideas, ways to have a stable transition, good but the -- ways, and she's one of many u.s. officials who will do that. the israeli's response is, first we, have to destroy hamas. the problem is, the u.s. east the damage to civilians and infrastructure, possibly being so severe, that it leaves you know, nothing but rubble, to use a metaphor for the day after. and almost impossible cleanup task. >> evelyn, let me bring you in here to pick up on something dave it was just talking about, and that's the israeli goal to destroy hamas. my question is, is that even possible, do you think? >> well, jonathan. it's not possible to completely destroy hamas. you want to decimate a terrorist movement, the terrorist for so it's not an immediate threat to the state of israel. i don't know whether they've achieved that objective. you know, the israeli government, the israeli defense forces, have never outlined for us exactly how they define you know, getting the threat to a level where it is, again, no longer existential to the state of israel. because if you're going to say you have to destroy 100% of the hamas terrorist force,, then you're going to lose a lot of civilians in the process, and that is just not tenable, worldly or otherwise. and if i could add something about the day after, you, know it's not just that. there's going to be a bunch of rubble and people who are throughout gaza, especially if the israelis continue doing what they were doing and conducting the operations the way they've been conducting them in the north of gaza, but you still don't see any thing about a political settlement, i think it's what they were talking about there on the sidelines of the meeting of the cup 23 meeting. they were trying to give some reassurance that there are people who are thinking about the day after, not literally the day after the rubble, but the political settlement, the decade after, what is this gonna look like for the people of gaza, because but one hope that you might get the people of gaza on your side, if you're israel or frankly, the united states and the international community, it's to offer the people of gaza some kind of political future. you know, i'm sure, without taking a poll, jonathan, the majority of the inhabitants of gaza were not overwhelmingly satisfied with their leadership, right? and in the aftermath of this, sure, they can blame the israelis, but it's also a failure of political and military leadership, to say the least. , so >> hang on with that. finished that last thought. >> now, so, i think that the end of the day, the way to get out of this whole situation, of, course president netanyahu, he's the only one, frankly, that is not interested in bringing this to a swift close, and that is a whole other topic. but we need to move. >> we don't even have time to get to netanyahu's future, even though i have a couple of questions about that. let me stick with you, because israel's been telling sufficient in northern gaza to head to the south, to avoid the fighting in the north. but as we've seen this morning, much of the attacks have been aimed at target in the south. meanwhile, the israeli military released an online map the finding of the gaza strip into sections, in case of an evacuation. you can see it there on the screen. but my map is no designated safe ared, to put a finer point on it, there is no internet in gaza. how is this possibly protecting civilians? >> i don't think it's doing the job, jonathan. again, this is why i think our government needs to continue making the point that it is apparently making that, according to the new york times, telling the israelis they have to use precision. they have to be more precise. and maybe, it will come out a greater risk to the israeli defense forces. i don't know, but they cannot just displaced people from one place to another, and add to the point you made, jonathan, -- you doctors without borders, they basically asserted that they were bombs or they were thanked, rather, by israeli forces, if they had told the israelis they were coming. so, the point being is that there are adverse that are made, even when people are trying really hard and you know, i'm just really concerned the longer this goes on, the worse it is, frankly, for the government of israel, for the israeli people, long term solution and certainly, also, for u.s. interests. >> they've, it is the international outcry over the humanitarian disaster in gaza having any impact on netanyahu and his government? >> >> it's limited so far, certainly, -limited to the pause and provided humanitarian assistance for people in gaza during those seven days. i think the impact is that the biden administration is moving towards a possible break with israel on the way it conducts the remainder of this campaign, that's a big deal. if the united states says to israel, openly, and it seems they've already said privately, quietly, but if they say openly, we don't find the way you are committing the war acceptable, that's a major change in the balance. it's something i think any israeli leader, including netanyahu, has to take very seriously, so i don't think we're there yet, but i think that's behind the scenes. the challenge for israel is to complete this clearing phase in southern gaza quickly. isolate but leadership, the leader of gaza, of hamas, yahya simard, thought to be underground in khan yunis, if they could identify where he is, focus on, that gets other people to some safety, they are thinking about that. they never the camps. are then, conceivably, the administration will say okay, that's the plan we can except. but for the moment, i think they are heading towards a possible collision. . >> save it, we are out of time, but real quickly, i want to pick up on the news that you just dropped there. that the united states is or maybe moving towards a break with israel. what do you think that breaking points could be? because that would be extraordinary, if it happens. >> it would be huge. it would be unprecedented in their relationship. i don't mean to imply where they're get. just as i look at the statements that blinken made on his visit, to israel, and the clear statement he made, there must be a clear path. those were his words, to a resolution in this conflict. to greater safety for civilians. the israelis have not yet responded with that clear path, so, i don't expect the u.s. will pull back from that, when the secretary says that emphatically, he says it's imperious, then, you know unless there's some response, there could be consequences. i think the israelis are responding, again, when i was there is they are having to make this up on the fly. they never expected this attack. they never had a clear vision of the day after. they're having to think, tete, how do we do this? and they're not there yet. >> david ignatius, evelyn farkas, thank you both very much for coming to the saturday show this morning. and coming up, no immunity. federal appeals court rules donald trump can be sued for the january 6th capitol attack. plus, the dangers of another trump presidency, less than a year out from the election. this and much more, after the break. you're watching the saturday show. 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>> so, first of, all i think in those clips, the really saw donald trump making his legal argument, which is on the president, i could do whatever i want. that's an argument that king george the third try to make. that's an argument of vladimir putin has tried to make. it's really not an argument the president of the united states has made before, except for richard nixon once, in a tv interview. if this is not what donald trump is saying, these two different courts, jonathan, in this criminal trial in washington, d.c., as well as in the civil trial in the court of appeals in washington, d.c., our nation's second highest court, and yesterday, he lost both of those. not surprising, because trump's arguments here really appear to be made in bad faith. they are also just plain bad. they are just about delay. nobody who knows anything about constitutional law thinks that the president can do whatever he wants. that's insane, and we saw the consequences of that kind of thinking on january six. when trump effectively directed him up to go and attack the capital. that can't possibly be the rules america is governed under. >> okay, i agree with everything you say and everything you say is right, right, true, and fair. however, we should expect trump to take this all the way to the supreme court, as part of his delay tactic. would, my concern is, what the justices hear these cases, and how do you think they would rule? >> no. >> so no, they won't through the middle. >> i don't think so, these are so clear. these are slam dunks, so, look, trump is going to try and take his loss before judge chutkan in this criminal trial to the d.c. circuit, nation second highest court, the one that ruled against him yesterday. i'll say something about how criminals difference civil and the like. but this can't be right. i mean, basically, trump is saying in this arguments, it can be facing trial when he's running for president, he can't face trial if he wins the election, that's what one of his lawyer said in georgia this week, and, you know, if he loses, trump's gonna say, he's gonna claim he won, so it's basically the former president is making every possible argument to just try to delay his trial and what. be surprised if trump's next move is to say their claim can't go to trial on any day at the week that ends in the letter why. i mean, it's just absurd, so, i think the supreme court will see it as. such so, basically, there will be a quick appeal to the d.c. circuit, i suspect the d.c. circuit will rule against him quickly. based on the ruling from yesterday. then, trump will try to take it to the supreme court, and i don't see any appetite for the supreme court entertaining such bogus arguments. >> what do you make of the appeal court noting that trump's lawyers do not dispute, that he engaged in his village reactions and up to and on january six, just that he is entitled to presidential immunity? >> yeah, look. i think the average fourth grader can tell you attempting to overturn a lawful election doesn't exactly fall within the job description of the president. and this appeals court yesterday made that important distinction official. and jonathan, notably, on that appeals court was a judge, judge cats this, who is not just a trump appointee, he was trump's deputy white house counsel. you know, so. its number two lawyer at the white house. and cat says ruled against donald trump. so, that tactic tells you all you need to know. trump can try to spin this as a bunch of obama judges, but no, these are trump judges. >> one more thing for you, neil. my washington post colleague, robert kagan, has a brilliant essay online right now with the headline, trump dictatorship is increasingly inevitable. we should stop pretending. former congressman liz cheney shared similar thoughts, in a cbs interview airing tomorrow. listen. >> he's told us what he will do. it is very easy to see the steps he will take. people who say well, if he's elected, it's not that dangerous, because we have all of these checks and balances. don't fully understand the extent to which the republicans in congress today have been co-opting. one of the things we see happening today is sort of a sleepwalking into dictatorship in the united states. >> neil. do the american people yet fully understand what's at stake next year? >> i don't think they do. i think everyone should read the kagan column. i think everyone should listen to liz cheney. you know, basically, this goes back to our founding. alexander hamilton in 1790, said the following, quote, when a man on principled in private life, desperate in his fortunes, bold in his temper, it seemed to mouth the hobby horse of popularity, he may ride the storm and direct the road, that is hamilton saying exactly what's happening, trump's own allies are saying if he wins the presidency, he will illuminate checks and balances that every president has labored under. for example, we are used to setting confirmations for all sorts of important posts, cabinets up, trump saying i'm going to get rid of the confirmation process and just have recess temporary appointments for two years to install his cronies in. for another example, our federal government is staffed with thousands of experts, nonpartisan people who know everything about you know, securities regulation or food and drug regulation or treasury and the economy, or transportation safety. he wants to fire all of them and put trump cronies in. and we know how he governs. look at how look at what he prioritizes for his lawyers. look at who he puts on, look at who he gives pardons. to his friends and cronies and allies and the like. he is going to do that throughout the federal government. so, this is the election of our lifetimes, because it really does ask ourselves, are we going to listen to alexander hamilton and be vigilant about these kinds of threats, or are we going to just watch tiktok and watch our democracy bleed away? >> we are going to be vigilant here at the saturday show. neil cocktail as always, thank you so much for being on this morning. and next, feeling vulnerable. the muslim community is facing rising hostility as the israel hamas war continues, and the white house is trying to navigate its relationship with that community as the conflict continues. minnesota attorney general keith ellison, who recently attended a private meeting with president biden and other prominent muslim americans, joins me next. stay with us. stay with us ryone on your holiday list. offering a variety of american made products... weathertech! nice! like floorliners... cargo liner... seat protector... boot tray... cupfone... sink mat... pet feeding system... anti-fatigue comfortmat...and more. order the weathertech gift card instantly for the perfect gift at weathertech.com. i'm retired... and you know what that means? it means i let someone else do the work now. that's what i love about the medicare helpline. order the weathertech gift card choosing a medicare advantage plan can be overwhelming... and they make it simple. he's right. with the medicare helpline, powered by selectquote, a licensed sales agent will do the work for you. we simplify choosing a medicare advantage plan with our easy 3-step process. we work with many of the nation's most recognized insurance companies, on your behalf, to find the right plan for your needs. susan told us: “my experience was outstanding, easy, and informative. i got all my questions answered and left the conversation feeling excited about the decisions i made.” the annual enrollment is october 15 to december 7. to find out about the medicare advantage plans with benefits available to you, call the medicare helpline now. call this number for a free plan review (christina) with verizon business unlimited, i get 5g, truly unlimited data, and unlimited hotspot data. so, no matter what, i'm running this kitchen. (vo) make the switch. it's your business. it's your verizon. he hits his mark —center stage—and is crushed by a baby grand piano. you're replacing me? customize and save with liberty bibberty. he doesn't even have a mustache. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ ♪♪ vicks vapostick provides soothing, non-medicated vicks vapors. easy to apply for the whole family. vicks vapostick. and try vicks vaposhower for steamy vicks vapors. after a weeklong humanitarian pause, the idf has reinstated its missile attacks on southern gaza. the idf says more than 400 targets across the gaza strip have been hit. and according to the hamas-run health ministry in gaza, at least 200 palestinians have been killed since the fighting resumed. the continued war is putting a strain on relations here in the united states between the biden administration and the muslim community. resulting in a small group of prominent muslim americans going to the white house recently to discuss islamophobia with president biden. joining me now, minnesota attorney general keith ellison, who was at that white house meeting. attorney general ellison, thank you very much for coming back to the show. bring us inside the meeting. what happened? what was said? >> well, a number of really eloquent, passionate leaders shared with the president how, as this war moves on, it is escalating anti-muslim hate, anti jewish hate, it is not good for domestic relations. in, fact some of the folks from chicago made it emphatically clear that six year old when he murdered, his mother stabbed, because he was palestinian, and because his landlord thought that was what he should do. and we are seeing these tensions escalate, and the point is that there are domestic ramifications as this war moves on. so, the request was made that this, there needs to be a cease-fire. and also, there needs to be a permanent solution for palestinian people to lift their. that is the way to undermine hamas. to give the palestinian people what they deserve, and what they need, and what has been our policy for so long. but anti-muslim hate is a real thing. we had people speak eloquently on this point, and to really drive home to the precedent the urgency. and the president was very empathetic with president, he listens attentively. the president was very clear that he needed to watch how he talked about this. to make sure that he is looking out for the interest of all americans, including the muslim community. but the message was left very clear. this war is obviously, devastating and deadly for the people of gaza. and it has implications for the united states, for islamophobia and antisemitism. >> so then, attorney general ellison, since that meeting, how do you feel about the administration's response? >> well, i think everyone has to say that the cease-fire pause for humanitarian releases was a welcome thing. it needs to be extended. we need to get about the business of stabilizing people in gaza, on stopping the bloodshed. rebuilding. and that will allow the domestic politics of the united states to stay, stabilized as well. at this point you, know, you just never know. what person's gonna strike out in violence, and hurt somebody who's muslim or to wish because they think that is the way to advance their position in the war in the middle east. i use the word war, i use it advisedly. i think it's more of a massacre than a war. and that point was made to the president as well. of course, everybody wasn't real clear that a tragic attack on israeli citizens on october 7th, it was completely unacceptable, and everyone condemned it. but the aftermath is something that is just catastrophic, when you look at it more but now 11,000 dead. we shared with the precedent that a lot of americans have loved ones in gaza, one personal friend of mine has a body count in her personal family units over 100 right now, so, they made that point a pundit leclaire. >> real quickly, attorney general ellison, a lot of the conversation here at home it's about the political fallout for the president for the administration in the upcoming presidential election, with many muslim americans going on the record saying they supported him in 2020, and they definitely are not going to support him in 2024. do you believe that is indeed the case? can the white house, can the president, when those people back? >> i believe that the sooner this hostilities, this violence ends, the sooner we can get back to the work of trying to repair this broken face. i will tell my friends in the muslim community that this is a biden race. we will have biden or trump asked the president, and trump is the one who has said that he would expand the muslim ban. he is the one who actually kicked the diplomatic presence of palestinians out of the united states. he's the one who said he would let this current practices go on unabated. he's the one he said who would not allow gazans refugees to come to the united states, you know the sad reality is, trump 's catastrophic for the united states and the muslim community, and biden is at least pushing for a humanitarian pauses, and he is aware that the expansion of this war has global implications that are very negative for the united states, and he understands the urgency of a palestinian state. so, some folks are saying that they're having to pick between something they are unhappy with and something they are really, really, really cannot accept. and that's a tough position for any voters to be in. but i'm trying to communicate to people in the muslim community that joe biden is the best chance for people in gaza and around the world right now. as difficult as that may be, >> minnesota attorney general, keith ellison, thank you for joining us. especially since you're taking time out to join us while you're there in south africa. safe travels home. >> thank you, thank you, sir. >> still to come. donald trump goes after obamacare, again. why that losing battle for him could be a putin for president biden in next year's election. north carolina governor roy cooper joins me next to weigh in. in (bobby) my store and my design business? 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(dog bark) it's just smarter, healthier pet food. it's amazing what real food can do. donald trump is already forecasting all the terrible things he plans to do if he's reelected. so, it comes as no surprise that the former president and current republican front runner decided to spend the last week vowing to replace the wildly popular affordable care act, also known as obamacare. with a new plan, and he even posting, for good measure on social media, obamacare sucks. biden campaign has already swung into action, aiming to weaponize trump's threat to repeal a health care law that's provided coverage to millions of americans. joining me now, north carolina governor roy cooper, whose state just expanded medicaid yesterday, and will likely be one of the key battleground states in 2024. governor cooper, welcome back to this show. thank you very much for being here. explain how the issue of health care has played out in your state, which donald trump won in 2016 and 2020? >> well, donald trump, this was his closest when. he only won north carolina by 1.4%. in 2020. so, we plan to win north carolina for joe biden in 2024. but let me tell you, but signing on with the biden harris administration gave to states that would expand medicaid was significant, in allowing north carolina to convince a republican legislature to give health insurance to 600,000 more working north carolinians. we are talking about people who are childcare workers, people who stop our grocery store shelves, people who look after our seniors. people who have been making too much to qualify for medicaid, but not enough to qualify for subsidies under the affordable care act. medicaid expansion was a key components of the affordable care act. now, in north carolina, after a decade of fighting, a long and winding road, we've got in the republican legislature to say yes, and this shows you that the affordable care act and medicaid expansion is popular across the board, because health insurance means so much to american families. >> you know, president biden warned voters in colorado this week that donald trump could repeal the aca. watch this. >> meanwhile, my predecessor wants to get rid of the affordable care act. over 40 million americans a day get their health insurance from the affordable care act. his plan is to throw them off that point. >> you know, when don trump is president, he never repealed affordable care act, so, what makes you think this isn't just a hollow threat for years later? ? >> this is one of the few campaign promises he actually tried very hard to keep. as the recall in 2017, we came perilously close to losing the affordable care act. he pushed this very hard. i think it was a one vote margin. so, we better believe him when he says he is coming after this. and you know, it's amazing that he actually did this again, because it didn't work out so well for republicans when they tried to eliminates health care for millions of americans. donald trump is really good at reading a roomful of conspiracy theorists. he is not very good at reading a roomful of americans who need health care. i just couldn't believe he was bringing this up again. i think many republicans were upset as well, because this is so popular across our country, but when you think about these american families who are now getting the health insurance they need, and when you think about the ten red states that have extremists, who are blocking medicaid expansion, north carolina provides a plan for them. we pushed in a bipartisan effort to get this health care in place to expand medicaid. jonathan, we actually would have tough on crime republican sheriff's come to the legislature to testify that many of the people they have to deal with or have substance use disorder are suffering from mental illness, and that these people need the health care and not handcuffs. republican rural county commissioners, watching their rural hospitals begin to close, know that medicaid expansion can help keep those alive. people who know that insurance companies could block them with a pre-existing condition know the affordable care act protects them, and you would rip the affordable eric care at the way, you take it from the people and giving it to the insurance companies. this is what donald trump wants to do. and at the end of the day, as we go through this next gear with this campaign, it's coming, we'll see that joe biden has done more the first two years as president than most presidents could have hoped to do in two terms. and as a governor, i'm working hard to implement the inflation reduction act, the american rescue plan, the bipartisan infrastructure act, chips and science act, it's going to make a real difference in -- overtime. a generational, a generational investment for our country. and at the end of the day, when the choice is joe biden and donald trump, joe biden is going to get reelected. but we cannot take anything for granted. because we know the damage that donald trump could cause this country, our democracy, and reproductive freedom. he is going to come after all of it. >> amen to that message, and hopefully, bed-wetting democrats out there will take that to heart. north carolina governor roy cooper, as always, thank you very much for coming to this show. >> thank you, jonathan. >> next, another historic move in congress, and not in the way republicans anticipated. george santos expelled from congress just two months after kevin mccarthy's ouster at speaker of the house. where do we go from here? i'm a talk to tara setmayer about all of this, after the break. break. have you ever considered getting a walk-in tub? well, look no further. proudly made in tennessee, a safe step walk-in tub is the best in it's class. the ultra-low easy step helps keep you safe from having to climb over those high walled tubs, allowing you to age gracefully in the home you love. and now, back by popular demand, for a limited time, when you purchase your brand-new safe step walk-in tub, you'll receive a free shower package! yes! a free shower package, and if you call today, you'll also receive $1600 off. now you can enjoy the best of both worlds. the therapeutic benefits of a warm, soothing bath, that can help increase mobility, relieve pain, boost energy, and even improve sleep. or, if you prefer, you can take a refreshing shower all in one product! call now! there is one less member of the house of representatives this morning. yesterday, new york republican congressman george santos became former republican congressman santos after he was expelled from congress in a historic vote following a report from the house ethics committee accusing him of defrauding campaign donors. apart from the ethics committee investigation, santos is also facing 23 federal charges, including allegations of fraud related to covid-19 unemployment benefits. misusing campaign funds, lying about his personal finances on house disclosure reports. he has pleaded not guilty to those charges. tires set meyer's lincoln project senior advisor for gop communication director and resident scholar at the uva center for politics. okay, tara [laughs] 105 republicans voted to boot santos. are you surprised? >> no, actually. not at this point. we are going into an election year. they do not want to be saddled by the controversy of george santos. this is pretty low hanging fruit here. the fact that it has taken this long. the fact that it took three votes. that they hid behind ethics investigations in order to kick the can down the road because they needed his vote because of how small the margin was. it is just par for the course for these republicans. it is clear though that even though the majority of the republicans understood that this guy has an albatross around his neck, the fact that gop leadership came out the morning of the vote to support keeping him there, they were against the expulsion? that is so outrageous to me! these people, their maga mandate to support this con artist takes precedent it takes precedence over everything else. it doesn't matter what's right. and in a matter if he's 1000. it doesn't matter if he's the fraud. it doesn't matter anymore. nothing matters anymore for these people. they, i think, expose themselves every time they do this for the political craving powers that they are. this, this is another example of that. i am glad that the majority of the congress to the right thing and kicked this guy out because he was a disgrace, undeserving of the taxpayers confidence and a paycheck. >> i want to correct you on something, tara. he called he has not been found guilty. he is not a felon. >> yes, alleged. alleged! >> he has not been found guilty of any felonious activity. however, he's a fashion felon. i would've put that out there. >> [laughs] indeed, indeed! >> let's talk about another disaster. republican governor ron desantis debating democratic governor from california, newsom this week. why on earth is desantis debating newsome? >> oh, he is so desperate for attention. the poor thing. ron desantis's campaign is a dead campaign walking and has been for quite some time. they have been hemorrhaging cash. it doesn't matter how much money you raise, you cannot buy a personality. people do not like this guy. we at the lincoln progress warned about this as soon as desantis became the buckeye of the political right. desantis is going to be the guy. while, okay. wait till he opens his mouth and starts campaigning! sure enough, here we are. gavin newsom wiped the floor with him even in an environment that was cool to the other way. it wasn't exactly a fair and violence debate. gavin newsom took him out more than once, pointing out how nikki haley is beating him. pointing out how he is trying to beat trump two point oh, he failed at that. it is just sad to watch. i am you not feel sorry for ron desantis. he gets everything he deserves. but it is just a sign of desperation. the fact that ron desantis has to go and do these types of debates on fox news to get attention just shows you the state where his campaign is. >> it was so sad to watch. folks didn't talk about how the playing field was tilted. it was two against one. gavin newsom was like neo-in the matrix. he was like, i don't care! bring bring them all. i can take them all on! >> that's right, and he did! >> and he did. totally did! also dispelled the notion that he is running some shadow campaign for government. he said president biden and vice president harris, he said it so many times you would swear that he was sent there by them to debate that poor thing. >> he's a gd surrogate for them. very good surrogate. >> cellent saga! okay, one more thing. hunter biden has offered to publicly testify before the house oversight committee this month. the chairman, james comer, shot down that request. why? i thought they wanted him to come in. >> because they do not want the embarrassment of hunter biden going in there dispelling all of their bs and nonsense they've been trying to pin on him for years. hunter biden has laid everything out, literally, for the public to see. there is nothing more that republicans could possibly do to embarrass him or bring anymore sheen to him. he has owned it all already. the fact that he is willing to do in public and the fact that republicans don't want that, again, it exposes their motives here. they want to do it behind closed doors so they can manipulate the messaging income out make nonsense claims about whatever incredible fly hunter biden even more. hunter biden is like, no! let's do it in public! i have nothing to hide anymore. they have been twisting themselves in knots trying to justify less transparency in a public carry. it is just the complete opposite of what they carpet battle all the time for. again, it exposes them for the un-seriousness and just the political motivation here. frankly, it have backfired. they were embarrassed the last time they had one of these hearing on the biden impeachment nonsense. they were embarrassed by their own witnesses. other people who they claim, one was on the lam. other one said no, that's not true. you know what? i say, good for hunter biden. being willing to do this publicly and do this to make the republicans the idiots they are. >> tara, i'm gonna say this on air to put pressure on you. you need to be sitting right next to me the next time we this segment. i'm tired of seeing you put. screen >> lligured out. >> thank you so much. all right, that will do it for me today. thank you for watching. be sureto tune in tomorrow for the sunday show. congressmanrobert garcia joins live to discuss george santos's expulsion from congress. plus, i will speak with former ep administrator genome carson about the climate in dubai. that is tomorrow right here on msnbc. remember to follow us on acts, the platform formally known as twitter, instagram, tiktok, using the handle at weekend key park. don't go anywhere, my friend ali velshi is next with more news. news (vo) make the switch. it's your business. it's your verizon. theo's nose was cause for alarm, so dad brought puffs plus lotion to save it from harm. puffs has 50% more lotion and brings soothing relief. don't get burned by winter nose. a nose in need deserves puffs indeed. america's #1 lotion tissue.