with lawrence o'donnell. , good evening, lawrence. , good >> after neil katyal andy litman take us through the latest delay designed court filings, congressman dan goldman will join us. he's going to rush off the house floor where george santos just spoke, just spoke in his own defense against the expulsion resolution introduced by dan goldman. now there has been a second. he has had two expulsion resolutions introduced against him on the same day, today, and he set a record, once again, today. >> he has been setting records, not for expulsion votes but for other things, and i'm eager to hear this discussion, lawrence i'm eager eager to know whether george santos had a historic volleyball career. >> i'll save it for later in the show. and alex, by the time you get home, you'll be able to turn on your tv and see me do something i have not done on tv in many years. >> are we finally get to see you juggle. >> i'm gonna walk. i haven't gotten out of this desk in many years. we used to have a giant studio on the other side of the hall. >> i remember. >> and there used to be a certain amount of walking and demonstrating things on the giant board. we do have another section of the studio that allows for me to take a little stroll. >> i'm excited to see the walk. that might be the most exciting part of the show. >> walking on tv, and i haven't rehearsed it, so who knows? >> see, lawrence o'donnell roth walk, and that's all the t's you need. >> that'll do it. thanks, alex. liz cheney has information that could be of interest to special prosecutor jack smith, according to a report about her new book, titled oath and honor, which will be published next week and which the author will discuss monday night at nine pm in liz cheney's very first interview with rachel maddow, right here on msnbc. cnn we have obtained a copy of the book and an excerpt saying that donald trump knew that he lost the presidential election two days after the presidential election. liz chey reveals this information in the conversation she had at the time with kevin mccarthy. he knows it's over, mccarthy said, according to the book. he needs to go through all the stages of grief. that makes kevin mccarthy a witness who can testify to donald trump's two state of mind about the election. he knows it's over. mccarthy told liz cheney, two days after the presidential election in 2020. last night on trump's lawyers filed a massive discovery request in the case of united states of america versus donald j trump, in which donald trump is accused of crimes leading up to and on january 6th in his attempt to overturn that election. in their filing, the criminal offense lawyers say that prosecutors, quote, cannot blame president trump for public discord and distrust of the 2020 election results. don't trump's current defense lawyers insist that it was perfectly reasonable for donald trump to believe that there was election fraud, no matter how many times he was told by his own attorney general and white house lawyers that there was no election fraud. and now comes kevin mccarthy saying he knows it's over. two days after the presidential election. the trunk criminal defense lawyers request for discovery demands, they are demanding documents from all over the federal government, one of the many claims for discover that the trump lawyers make is, quote, president trump is entitled to all information regarding undercover acting at the direction of under the direction of official authorities because it suggests that there were adequate controls in place and that the violence at issue resulted from a failure of those controls and war field sting operations rather than any direct directions from president president trump. among the many problems for the trump lawyers at that point is that it ignores the fact that once the attack was underway, there were absolutely no directions from donald trump to any of the governmental forces under his command to stop the attack on the capital. not one word in any of the trump lawyers voluminous pleadings in this case has ever attempted to explain why donald trump did absolutely nothing to stop the attack on the capital that he watched on tv and why it was vice president pence who simply took over the role of commander from his hiding place in the capitol to communicate with congressional leaders about the attack, and defense department officials about how to regain control of the capitol building. donald trump completely surrendered, and that inaction by donald trump that liz cheney calls dereliction of duty during the attack on the capital, is part of the criminal charges against donald trump by jack smith in this case. the trump discovery request also asked for information about mike pence that appears completely irrelevant to the attack on the capitol on january 6th and on trump's attempt to get mike pence to violate the law on january six. those attempts are described by jack smith in the indictment against donald trump. the trump discovery request asks for, quote, evidence relating to unauthorized retention of classified documents by vice president mike pence. the potential criminal charges faced by vice president pence gave him an incentive to curry favor with authorities by providing information that is consistent with the biden administration's preferred and false narrative regarding this case. jack smith's team has until december 11th to respond to that trump discovery request. judge chutkan, moving in this case already, has found that donald trump's latest discovery request was, quote, a fishing expedition and she denied his request. don trump's criminal defense lawyers fear of mike pence's as a potential witness has been fueled by new reporting of what mike pence actually told special prosecutor jack smith's prosecution team earlier this year. abc news is reporting, quote, in his interviews with smith's team, pence will call the meeting he had alone with trump inside the oval office on december 21st, 2020. when trump privately asked pence what they should do, pence said, he told the then president that if nothing changed, you should simply accept the results, you should take a bow, travel the country to thank supporters, and then run again if you want. and i'll never forget, he pointed at me as if to say, that's worth thinking about. and he walked away. pence recalled, to investigators, sources said. nbc news is also reporting that mike pence's notes turned over to prosecutors revealed these lines from christmas eve, 2020. not feeling like i should attend electoral count, pence wrote in his notes in late december. too many questions, too many doubts, to hurtful to my friend. therefore i'm not going to participate in certification of election. then, sitting across the table from his son, a marine, while on vacation in colorado, his son said to him, dad, you took the same toe oath i took, it was an oath to support and defend the constitution, pence were called to summits investigators, sources say. that's when pence decided he would be at the capitol on january six after all. according to the sources. leading off our discussion tonight is we'll catch you all, former acting u.s. solicitor general, and professor of georgetown law, msnbc legal analyst and host of the podcast courtside. also harry litman, former deputy assistant attorney general, senior legal affairs analyst for the los angeles times. and neal, let me begin with this massive discovery that the trump criminal defense team has filed with the same judge who ruled their last discovery request a fishing expedition and didn't allow it. this one seems like a fishing expedition with a much bigger net. >> yeah, so lawrence, as usual, the latest motion is not worth the paper it's printed on or the pay fees that you have to get to download it online. when he ran the justice department justice department was known for hiding such information from criminal defendants. and now he wants everything that suits him. this is nothing more than a delay tactic. trump is asking for the kitchen sink at a time when he already has troughs of sinks, basically. the trial judge, judge chutkan, very experience, respected by everyone on both sides of the aisle in washington, she's not gonna have anything to do with this, i suspect. she's going to limit this. the government already has an incentive to turn over as much information as possible, so i don't see this as doing anything whatsoever to try and delay, to actually succeed in delaying the trial. one other thing about this that i found striking, you put it on the screen, donald trump is blaming pants in this filing and basically saying, as vice president, trying to curry favor with the justice department because he's under investigation for stealing documents. but trump knows a lot about such investigations because he's failing facing a really serious one in mar-a-lago where, i, think experts of all sides agree trump's looking at a serious set of federal felonies. but the pence investigation is nothing like that. this does play into my mind a little bit to the need for a gag order here. this is someone who is going and attacking potential witnesses, particularly, as you noted, on the day that embassy is reporting dramatic words from the vice president. >> harry litman, what defines what the defense is allowed to ask for and obtain in evidentiary situations like this? and how much delay do you think this kind of motion could cause? >> the legal hook is the obligation. it's a real one. there is a hook in this fishing expedition. there's just no fish below. you must give over any information that might tend to exculpate a defendant even might tend to impeach witnesses. this is, as neal said, it scattershot, it malicious, and it's very well planned. he was once for a few months under investigation which is closed up and he wanted to curry favor, therefore, it goes the argument, it goes to show that i'm innocent. likewise with the private investigators that you mentioned. so he takes an actual principle and uses it to leverage all kinds of insults to and politicization and very speculative hooks to it, and i think is neal says chutkan will make short work of this and say this isn't the type of stuff that the government has to produce. this is just a fantasy mission? >> neal, can the defense appeal a discovery motion like this and a ruling by the judge? >> no. not really. it's an interlocutory appeal and you have to be certified and get very special standards. it's not gonna happen here. the judge here has massive discretion to rule the evidence the way she wants him to an extent on trump has a complaint, if he is convicted, as i suspect he will be, he can appeal and make that part of his complaint that judge chutkan didn't let him see some particular piece of evidence or not. good luck with that appeal. >> i want to get both of your reactions to this new information from liz cheney's book that kevin mccarthy is saying two days after the election he knows that he lost. we're gonna squeeze in a commercial break right now and be right back with neal katyal and harry litman. back with neal katyal and harry litman and harry litman >> a statin, leqvio is proven to lower bad cholesterol by 50% and keep it low with 2 doses a year. common side effects were injection site reaction, joint pain, and chest cold. ask your doctor about twice-yearly leqvio. lower. longer. leqvio® mr. clean magic eraser powers through tough messes. so it makes it look like i spent hours cleaning, and you know i didn't. it makes my running shoe look like new! it's amazing. it's so good. it makes it look like i have magical powers. magic eraser and sheets make cleaning look easy. struggling with the highs and lows of bipolar 1? ask about vraylar. because you are greater than your bipolar 1, and you can help take control of your symptoms - with vraylar. some medicines only treat the lows or highs. vraylar treats depressive, acute manic, and mixed episodes of bipolar 1 in adults. proven, full-spectrum relief for all bipolar 1 symptoms. and in vraylar clinical studies, most saw no substantial impact on weight. elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. call your doctor about unusual changes in behavior or suicidal thoughts. antidepressants can increase these in children and young adults. report fever, stiff muscles or confusion which may mean a life-threatening reaction, or uncontrollable muscle movements which may be permanent. high blood sugar, which can lead to coma or death, ain and high cholesterol may occur. which may be permanent. movement dysfunction and restlessness are common side effects. sleepiness and stomach issues are also common. side effects may not appear for several weeks. ask about vraylar and learn how abbvie could help you save. announcer: try tide power pods with 85% more tide in every pod. who needs that much more tide? everyone's gonna need more tide. it's a mess out there. that's why there's 85% more tide in every power pod. -see? -ah. ♪ limu emu & doug ♪ [bell ringing] and doug says, “you can customize and save hundreds on car insurance with liberty mutual.” he hits his mark —center stage— and is crushed by a baby grand piano. are you replacing me? with this guy? customize and save with liberty bibberty. he doesn't even have a mustache! oh, look! a bibu. [limu emu squawks.] only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ >> he knows it's over. that's what liz cheney's new book quotes kevin mccarthy saying two days after the presidential election about donald trump. he knows it's over. neal katyal and harry litman are back with us. it sounds like what would be considered classic hearsay in a courtroom. is there a way to get that into the united states of america versus donald trump in washington, d.c.? >> i do think that there is going to be away. first of all, i do think it's significant. it's not surprising. basically the prosecution has to show a bad actors reyes, a bad act in a mens rhea, bad criminal intent. donald trump have a having a fake electors plot, trying to interfere with pence going to the hill on january six to count votes. the mens rhea has always been the part of the case that's a little bit harder, not that hard, frankly, but a little bit harder. trump has said i really thought i won, and the like, but we've had witness after witness, cassidy hutchison and others who said, no, trump knew, trump told people that he lost and the like. this is further evidence like that. i do think there are ways to get it in. as a prosecutor, there are 23 different exceptions to the hearsay rules and so i do think it could come in. but at the end of the day this is not a game-changer. people know that donald trump lost. he's not claiming insanity. he could have tried to pull off some sort of defense out of this kind of argument. >> harry litman, i suppose we can expect the trump attacks on liz cheney any minute now, possibly during this program. >> right, exactly. but on the evidence, lawrence, it's super straight forward. the code defines admission by donald trump, anything he says is non hearsay. so even before you get to the 23 exceptions, this isn't hearsay. it is hearsay fillers cheney to say kevin mccarthy told me. it's not hearsay for mccarthy. you give him a trial subpoena and mr. mccarthy, what did dom trump tell you? and there's no hearsay protection there. and of course they all rail against anybody, including mccarthy, but admissibility straightforward. >> but neal there's a risk there for prosecutors who can't have real access to mccarthy head of time. you get on the witness stand and say i don't remember, i don't recall, i had a conversation, that never came up. >> yeah, absolutely, it is at that point that maybe you call mccarthy -- v. october 23 exceptions. there's a way to get this evidence in but again i don't think the case is gonna hinge on that, one way or the other. in georgia there's a report today in the guardian saying that prosecutors are willing to enter a plea agreements with every defendant in the case except donald trump, mark meadows, and rudolph giuliani. harry litman, the gaiety in said that that's the current strategy, as the reporting indicates, in the d.a.'s office that strategy could change. but what do you make of that strategy, if true? >> these are the kinds of lines that prosecutors draw. it's bad news for meadows and giuliani, who really is broke and now doesn't appear to have the option of doing anything. he can always plead but he can't get any kind of break. one thing i would add to the guardian report is, david schaffer, there basically two cases here, lawrence. remember, she's an elected official from georgia. she has people from washington who came down and tried to bribe people in georgia. also people in georgia, political officials, and david schaffer, former head of the republican party, he's the most culpable there. i wouldn't be surprised to see a flurry of please. but stopping at him and making him bna similar position as giuliani, meadows, and trump. it's a four to maybe six person case at this point, i think, once the pleas come in, which will require a setting of a trial date. this could be an important hearing on friday, and we'll see where judge mcafee is going with the actual scheduling here. remember, that's what triggered the other please before, and i think they need to feel the heat before they start having more guilty pleas. >> neal what do you make of that current strategy, if it's true, the d.a.'s office say no possible plea agreements offered to don't, trump will giuliani, mark meadows, but everyone else is willing is welcome to come in a negotiated. >> it makes sense, but they need to take with a grain of salt. the case against trump is very strong. but if you're a prosecutor and you have mark meadows willing to testify against him, and mark meadows -- some of the four seasons landscaping nonsense that rudy giuliani's, so as a result, you might, in the end of the day say i really don't like the idea of basically keeping the chief of staff to the president a pardon when he did so many things. but there is a bigger fish to fry here, and i don't think that fani willis has made that calculation yet. she may have some preliminary views on that. but views can change overtime. i think the book has yet to be written on that particular decision. rudy giuliani strikes me as an easier case because as a prosecutor i'd be surprised if that's really going to help the case tremendously, because he has credibility issues. we >> neal katyal and harry litman, thank you very much. coming up, it in breaking george santos news, congressman santos went to the house floor to defend himself against expulsion. congressman dan goldman who introduced a resolution today to expel george santos will join us next. wil join us next join us next >>are provider about the number one prescribed h-i-v treatment, biktarvy. biktarvy is a complete, one-pill, once-a-day treatment used for h-i-v in many people whether you're 18 or 80. with one small pill, biktarvy fights h-i-v to help you get to undetectable—and stay there whether you're just starting or replacing your current treatment. research shows that taking h-i-v treatment as prescribed and getting to and staying undetectable prevents transmitting h-i-v through sex. serious side effects can occur, including kidney problems and kidney failure. rare, life-threatening side effects include a buildup of lactic acid and liver problems. do not take biktarvy if you take dofetilide or rifampin. tell your healthcare provider about all the medicines and supplements you take, if you are pregnant or breastfeeding, or if you have kidney or liver problems, including hepatitis. if you have hepatitis b do not stop taking biktarvy without talking to your healthcare provider. common side effects were diarrhea, nausea, and headache. no matter where life takes you, biktarvy can go with you. talk to your healthcare provider today. at bombas, we're obsessed with comfort. quality. movement. because your basic things should be your best things. one purchased equals one donated. visit bombas.com and get 20% off your first order. so... i know you and george were struggling one purchased equals one donated. with the possibility of having to move. how's that going? we found a way to make bathing safer with a kohler walk-in bath. a kohler walk-in bath provides a secure, spa-like bathing experience in the comfort of your own home. a kohler walk-in bath has one of the lowest step-ins of any walk-in bath for easy entry and exit. it features textured surfaces, convenient handrails for more stability, and a wide door for easier mobility. kohler® walk-in baths include two hydrotherapies— whirlpool jets and our patented bubblemassage™ to help soothe sore muscles in your feet, legs, and back. a kohler-certified installer will install everything quickly and conveniently in as little as a day. they made us feel completely comfortable in our home. and, yes, it's affordable. i wish we would have looked into it sooner. think i might look into one myself. stay in the home and life you've built for years to come. call... to receive $1000 off your kohler walk-in bath. and take advantage of our low monthly payment financing. >> breaking news from the house floor tonight from indicted republican congressman george santos after two resolutions to expel him were introduced in the house today, the first by democrats in the second my republicans. >> madam speaker, on the matter of expulsion, we are now going down a third attempt for a privileged resolution to expel me from the house of representatives this week. just introduced one earlier today in early this evening we had a second. here's the case in point. in history, five members of congress have been expelled. all five had suffered convictions in a court. all five had due process. this expulsion though simply undermines and underscores the precedent that we've had in this chamber. it starts and put this in a new direction, a dangerous, one a very dangerous precedent for the future. are we to now assume that one is no longer innocent until proven guilty, and they are in fact guilty until proven innocent, and to set the record straight and put this in the record, i would not be resigning. with that, i yield back. >> joining us now democratic congressman daniel daniel goldman of new york who introduced the first of the two expulsion resolutions today against george santos. congressman goldman, your reaction to what you just heard george santos say on the house floor? >> george santos is obviously not a criminal lawyer because what we are talking about here is not a criminal case. innocent until proven guilty is a standard used when someone's liberty is at risk in a criminal court. he had to process with the how the house ethics committee. he obstructed their investigation. he refused to provide documents. he refused to come in and meet with them, even though he was asked to do so repeatedly. so this is not an issue of due process and it's not an issue of innocent until proven guilty. the question is whether there are sufficient facts that have been either in a minute to buy george santos are found by the house ethics committee that have broken house rules and have made george santos unfit for congress. and it would seem to me that the only americans who would ever determine that the facts of this case are not enough to expel george santos, are house republicans who have protected him for 11 months. >> the new republican speaker of the house, johnson, called sanders today, and here's how george santos described that. >> he asked me hi how i was doing and if i had made my decision, and i said yes. put up or shut up at this point. all of these members are pushing this. they want me to resign because they don't want to take this tough oath that sets a precedent to their own demise in the future. because they are not immune from all the nonsense that goes on in washington. >> congressman goldman, it brings to mind nancy pelosi's handling of a former out of control new york congressman, anthony weiner, who exposed himself, literally, on twitter, and within three weeks of anthony weiner exposing himself on twitter, nancy pelosi personally forced him to resign. and so there is precedent in this sort of thing, the george santos doesn't seem to know about. >> it's also an embarrassment for speaker mike johnson, who has not publicly called for him to resign, much less for him to be expelled. lawrence, i know you have reviewed ethics report. it's not just the george santos violated just about every law and rule related to campaign finances and disclosure obligations. he also just simply stole money from his campaign. when i filed the original complaint to the ethics committee in january, i fully expected that there were significant campaign finance violations. but i never in 1 million years would have anticipated that he could have stolen nearly $200,000 for his own personal luxury goods, botox, porn sites, you name it. this is so much more egregious than what i even anticipated when i filed this complaint. it is long past time that finally, once and for all, the republicans in the house of representatives make a statement that there is some degree of integrity and morality that is required to be a member of congress and that political power in slim injury does not always trump corruption within that republican party. >> you are a member of the new republican created house committee that has a name that's actually a lie, but it's the hunter biden committee, the committee that's doing nothing but trying to investigate hunter biden. interesting twist, when hunter biden and his attorney said yes hunter biden will absolutely testify to that committee as long as that testimony is public. what was the house committee, the republican reaction to that offered by hunter biden? >> you would think that would be great. they would love to have the witness that we have been attacking for 11 months come in and answer our questions. but they said they don't want him to testify publicly. they don't want the american people to hear directly from hunter biden. they want him to go behind closed doors, where they can take secret testimony, leak misinformation, misleading information, cherry-pick information, to paint thi entirely fictional story that they have been painting all year. they had one public hearing at the end of the year, abject failure. chairman comer is leaning it is astacin vesta geisha in and hunter biden just called his bluff, because what hunter biden will say will not help the oversight committee. it will put the final nail in the coffin of this bogus sham investigation. and jim comer knows that. he knows that if this is public he's doomed. that's why he wants to do in private. in fact, what he really wanted was 400 to say that he would not testify, because his last ditch effort was to claim some sort of obstruction, which would somehow support his bogus allegations, but under biden called his bluff and jaime comer in the house oversight committee in the sham impeachment investigation is running around with her tail between their legs. they don't know what to do. >> congressman dan golden, thank you very much for joining us tonight. >> thank you, lawrence. >> coming up, it has been an extraordinary year in modern union history with major strikes involving unions from the united auto workers to the screen actors guild. one of the unions i belong to. the executive director of the screen actors guild will join us next to explain what was achieved in their strike and how union solidarity this year has helped all the unions that have faced difficult negotiations. that's next. negotiations that's next. >> ever notice how stiff clothes can feel rough on your skin? for softer clothes that are gentle on your skin, try downy free & gentle downy will soften your clothes without dyes or perfumes. the towel washed with downy is softer, and gentler on your skin. try downy free & gentle. i'm kareem abdul jabbar. i was diagnosed with afib. the first inkling that something was wrong was i started to notice that i couldn't do things without losing my breath. i couldn't make it through the airport, and every like 20 or 30 yards i had to sit down and get my breath. every physical exertion seemed to exhaust me. and finally, i went to the hospital where i was diagnosed with afib. when i first noticed symptoms, which kept coming and going, i should have gone to the doctor and told them what was happening. instead, i tried to let it pass. if you experience irregular heartbeat, heart racing, chest pain, shortness of breath, fatigue, or light-headedness, you should talk to your doctor. afib increases the risk of stroke about 5 times i want my experience to help others understand the symptoms of atrial fibrillation. when it comes to your health, this is no time to wait. hey everybody, w. kamau bell here. they say that america is the land of the free. but right now, people in the u.s. are seeing their freedoms taken away at an alarming rate. freedoms some of us take for granted. the right to vote. equal access to health care. book banning and other forms of censorship that threaten our right to learn and here's something truly shocking. right now in our country, hundreds of thousands of people are incarcerated simply because they couldn't afford bail. that's not free and it's not fair. but there is hope for change. it lives in people like you and in a great organization called the american civil liberties union. so please join me and other concerned americans in defending our civil liberties by joining the aclu as a guardian of liberty today. all it takes is just $19 a month. only $0.63 a day. when you're surrounded by oppressive laws. you can't just sit back and be oppressed. you get up and fight. and all of us at the aclu are fighting for you. whether it's criminal justice reform or protecting the lgbtq plus rights, abortion rights or voting rights. the aclu is in the courts fighting for your rights, and mine and i, for one, sleep better at night knowing they're working every day in all 50 states to protect our freedoms. but these freedoms are at risk. we have to fight for them tirelessly. and with your help, we will continue to do so so please go to myaclu.org and join the fight for just $19 a month. use your credit card and get this special we the people t-shirt, aclu magazine and more to show you're helping ensure justice for all. as an individual, donating to the aclu is one of the most powerful things you can do to fight for justice. but the aclu can't do it alone. they need your support now to continue defending our democracy and the freedoms we hold dear. so please join us. call or go online to myaclu.org today. thank you. - [female narrator] five billion people lack access to safe surgery. thousands of children are suffering and dying from treatable causes. for 40 years, mercy ships has deployed floating hospitals to provide the free surgeries these children need. join us. together, we can give children the hope and healing they never thought possible. it's a mission powered by love, made possible by you. give today. do you own a lot of bras, but not a single one you really love? it's time you got into a wireless bra from knix. the ultimate in comfort and support, in sizes up to a g-cup. visit knix.com to find a wireless bra you'll love. >> come in. with >> if you hide your ignorance no one will hit you and you'll never learn. is this your quote? >> dad, i wanted to mention something to you that maybe weren't aware of requiring regarding salary equity. is >> is this your quote? >> it's actually raise bradbury. >> and you quoted wray bradbury? >> in an article you and your friends wrote condemning a presser of literature. >> he banned all these books. >> stop it, you're a guest of this school. >> with that episode of nbc's the west wing i became a card carrying member of the screen actors guild. my sag card took its place beside my writers guild card as a writer and executive producer of the west wing. the writers guild was the union already providing me health insurance when i joined the screen actors guild. but in some of the year since then, my health insurance has been covered by the screen actors guild. i might be the only person working at this network who has never used the company health insurance plan because the unions who had jurisdiction over my work before this job already guaranteed me even better health insurance. if, like most american workers, you've never been a member of the union, you might not understand what appears to be the blind loyalty of union members to their unions, especially during a very long strike. that the writers guild and the actors guild enjoyed this year. but most workers were not members of unions know exactly what it feels like to have no advocate for them. in their workplace. this has been a year of important and successful strikes and labor negotiations by the united auto workers, the airline pilots union, the writers guild, and the screen actors guild, and it has been a year of extraordinary unity among unions among several different industries. joining us now is duncan crabtree, the national executive director and chief negotiator of the screen actors guild, the sag actra union as no. now duncan, thank you very much for joining us tonight. you are in the final week of voting on ratification of the deal, the writers guild deal got an overwhelming i guess the biggest so supporting ramification ever in the history of writers guild deals. what do expect to happen this week? >> first of all, thanks for having us on. and thanks for being a sag-aftra member. we have had a robust discussion going on within the members of our union, as you mentioned. union members are all about solidarity and standing united but wait what we are standing in the middle of is a campaign to educate members about what's in this deal. it's 190 pages long, this deal. part of a whole member dialogue about it, but the votes are due by next tuesday, the 5th of december. i expect that our members will be really excited about the unions that are part of this agreement in so many areas, but ultimately this deal is out for their verdict. i think it will be a favorable one, but it will be up to them to decide. >> we're running some of the pictures of the sag strike as you speak. i was out there in l.a. during some of these rallies, not enough, but the unity during the strike was really striking to me and the unity of the writers guild was stronger. i've been through many strikes with the writers guild, that was the strongest feeling of unity that i've experienced in a strike environment. i have to say, i have never been in any of the show business strikes heard more clear guidance from a union official of what was going on than what we were hearing from you throughout what was the most complex set of strike issues that sag has ever had to deal with. >> well, i thank you for saying that. this is a huge team effort. we're very fortunate to have a very powerful communicator in our president, also the head of our negotiating committee, fran drescher, in a powerful negotiating committee. but the unity and solidarity of our members, among the sag-aftra guild and writers guild and other unions, it was unprecedented. it heralds the future of continued and expanding cooperation in solidarity between all of the entertainment industry unions. and frankly unions around this country. i think it's a very good thing for working people. it doesn't mean everyone has to agree all the time, but it does mean where in this for the same thing, which is to make sure the working people, our members, are properly taken care of and are treated well by the companies they work for. >> what can you say about the union solidarity that supported your strike beyond the screen actors guild, beyond the writers guild, across the industries? >> absolutely, well, i have to say the teamsters in the basic craft unions, the crew unions, we are with this from day one. all the way to day 119 of our strike. but the afl-cio under the very capable leadership of liz schuller and other unions around the country came out, they walked picket lines with us, they helped amber flyer message. and most importantly they help to make sure that everyone in this country new, this is a working peoples strike. this isn't working people's contract. and even though there are very well-known people such as yourself who were part of our union, there are tens of thousands of our members who people don't know their names, they might recognize their face but we are fighting for everybody to make sure that they are treated fairly in regards to every issue in this contract. obviously from a eye to minimums to lots of specific issues for different types of performers. >> duncan crabtree-ireland, thank you very much for making it so clear during the strike what exactly was at stake. and thank you very much for joining us tonight. >> thank you so much. >> coming up, how much money would it take to change your life? in tonight's last word, you meet a high school girl named veronica whose life was changed for the batter by $3. less than what many of us spent on coffee today. veronica's story is next. veronica's story is next veronica's story is next >> nutrients for immune health. and ensure complete with 30 grams of protein. (♪♪) i was stuck. unresolved depression symptoms were in my way. i needed more from my antidepressant. vraylar helped give it a lift. adding vraylar to an antidepressant... is clinically proven to help relieve overall depression symptoms... ...better than an antidepressant alone. and in vraylar clinical studies, most saw no substantial impact on weight. elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. report unusual changes in behavior or suicidal thoughts. antidepressants can increase these in children and young adults. report fever, stiff muscles, or confusion, as these may be life-threatening, or uncontrolled muscle movements, which may be permanent. high blood sugar, which can lead to coma or death, weight gain, and high cholesterol may occur. movement dysfunction and restlessness are common side effects. stomach and sleep issues, dizziness, increased appetite, and fatigue are also common. side effects may not appear for several weeks. i didn't have to change my treatment. i just gave it a lift. ask about vraylar and learn how abbvie could help you save. honey, i think i heard something. ok. ♪ from christmas tree mats... to floorliners... cargo liners.... no drill mud flaps... seat protectors... and more... weathertech has the perfect holiday gift. honey, is everything ok? oh yeah. order at weathertech.com and don't forget weathertech gift cards. my most important kitchen tool? my brain. so i choose new neuriva ultra. unlike some others, it supports 7 brain health indicators, including mental alertness from one serving. to help keep me sharp. try new neuriva ultra. think bigger. he hits his mark —center stage—and is crushed by a baby grand piano. you're replacing me? customize and save with liberty bibberty. he doesn't even have a mustache. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ ♪ you were always so dedicated... ♪ we worked hard to build up the shop, save for college and our retirement. but we got there, thanks to our advisor and vanguard. now i see who all that hard work was for... it was always for you. seeing you carry on our legacy— i'm so proud. at vanguard, you're more than just an investor, you're an owner. setting up the future for the ones you love. that's the value of ownership. so... i know you and george were struggling setting up the future for the ones you love. with the possibility of having to move. how's that going? we found a way to make bathing safer with a kohler walk-in bath. a kohler walk-in bath provides a secure, spa-like bathing experience in the comfort of your own home. a kohler walk-in bath has one of the lowest step-ins of any walk-in bath for easy entry and exit. it features textured surfaces, convenient handrails for more stability, and a wide door for easier mobility. kohler® walk-in baths include two hydrotherapies— whirlpool jets and our patented bubblemassage™ to help soothe sore muscles in your feet, legs, and back. a kohler-certified installer will install everything quickly and conveniently in as little as a day. they made us feel completely comfortable in our home. and, yes, it's affordable. i wish we would have looked into it sooner. think i might look into one myself. stay in the home and life you've built for years to come. call... to receive $1000 off your kohler walk-in bath. and take advantage of our low monthly the partnership we created payment financing. with msnbc and unicef to provide desks like this one to elementary schools in malawi where the students and teachers have never had desks. and we will prove to you tonight that no contribution is too small. the kind fund also provide scholarships to girls to attend high school in malawi, where public high school is not free and the girls high school graduation rate is less than half the boy's graduation rate. as i said, no contribution is too small in malawi. this is 5000 quota. malawi currency, 5000 kwacha. veronica -- told us how 5000 kwacha kept her in high school, got her into a high school and kept her in eyes will long enough so that she could get a kind fund scholarships to pay for the rest of her high school. 5000 kwacha would mean a lot to the budgets of 99% of the families in malawi, 5000 kwacha is $3. 5000 kwacha means the world to students in malawi. so no, no contribution is too small. if you can send $3, the k.i.n.d. fund will make those $3 and go further then $3 could ever go in this country. life expectancy in malawi is among the lowest in the world. it has recently gone up to an all-time high of 65. so one of the most common stories i've heard from students in malawi is about the death of a parent or the death of an uncle that made their family all the more impoverished and unable to pay i school tuition fees. the hardships that students describe our routine in malawi. every girl on a k.i.n.d. fund scholarship in malawi has a hardship story to tell, and every one of them has heard and even more difficult hardship story from friends of their's who are also on scholarships. veronica's mother died when veronica was an elementary school. veronica was living with her aunt and uncle when she was in eighth grade taking the test to be admitted to high school. veronica's aunt died that year. her uncle then managed to come up with the 5000 kwacha. this allowed veronica to enroll in high school, $3, $3 that changed veronica's life. when i was in malawi in october, a young girl tony about an uncle who offered to pay her high school fees if she would have sex with him. that photograph you're looking at now is a photograph of girls who received our scholarships in high school and are now in college. the girl who told about the uncle who would pay her high school fees if she would have sex with him tooled that story unemotionally. but she was filled with emotion when she expressed her gratitude for her scholarship that changed her life. you can go to last word desks dot msnbc.com to make a contribution of $3 or more to the k.i.n.d. fund. you can specify that your contribution is for desks or for scholarships, and you can make that gift in the name of anyone on your holiday gift list and unicef will send them an acknowledgment of your gift. the first time i spoke to about kids in need of desks in on this program 13 years ago, i sat at this desk. i said then that he's desks would give children their own little stage on which to perform. and thousands of times since then, in malawi classrooms, i have watched this become this. he is ten years old. his name is blessings roderick. blessings wants to be a teacher. that desk he has now is going to help him be a better student. these desks do not guarantee better academic achievement. but these desks do create that possibility. as someone who sat in the last row of a classroom of 50 at st. brandon's elementary school in boston and then set closer to the teachers in high school and smaller classrooms and then worked as a public school teacher, i know it, as many of you do, what a difference it can make to just improve a students line of sight to the teacher in front of the room. each of the hundreds of thousands of desks like this that your generosity has delivered to malawi classrooms carries the possibility of creating that classroom miracle of transforming an unreachable student into a great student who might go on to do great things. the students who get to sit at these new desks have no possessions, on. they have no choice. their friends do not have toys. most of them have never seen two ways. many of them have no issues. the first time we delivered desks to a school in malawi, victor -- , a unicef official who help me with that first delivery, told me this minutes before the first desks arrived. >> i can tell you that a desk delivered at the school, that's christmas for these kids. christmas comes in december 25th, and pretty much nothing happens in their lives. when a desk is delivered to them at the school, that is christmas. you have made -- many lives. >> my dear friend, victor, gets tonight's last word. tonight, mike pence's initial