Transcripts For MSNBCW Deadline 20240702

department as a personal police force to pursue his critics and political enemies. here's what he said about it in an interview with uni vision last night. >> i could certainly happen in reverse. it could certainly happen in reverse. what they've done is they've released the genie out of the box, you understand that, they've done something that nobody thought would happen. if i happen to be president and i see somebody who's doing well and beating me very badly i say, go down and indict them, mostly that would be, you know, they would be out of business, they'd be out. they'd be out of the election. >> it's all out loud now. so out loud that in a statement, a spokesperson for the trump campaign sought to walk it back and clarify trump's remarks saying the ex-president was simply highlighting the dangerous example president joe biden is setting which only makes sense if you say his conspiracy theory that -- the work of joe biden and not the end result of years of investigations by independent investigators and prosecutors, some of which have changed hands. trump's comments are really reflection of his own deep par paranoia and his thirst for revenge against people who in his mind have wronged him. in private the former preside has told advisers and friends in recent months he wants the justice department to veigate former trump officials, and allies who have become critical of his time in office. that is according to people who have talked to him and spoken anonymously to describe private conversations. as we have reported on this show the ex-president has a coderie of allies, to remove any and all existing guardrails to our country's institutions. on that the post reports the plans would, quote, dispense with 50 years of policy and practice, intended to shield criminal prosecutions from political considerations. critics have called such ideas dangerous and unconstitutional. the disgraced ex-president openly wrung on dismantling the rule of law in america. it's where we begin today with our favorite reporters and friends. carol leonnig is here with us, andrew weissmann, and pete stzrok, i remember where i was, andrew weissmann, when the mueller team was looking at trump's desire to fire mueller, and i remember it was such a scandal and it was such a question, and it was such a frenzy because it was this public-facing evidence that he sought to apply pressure on an investigation that may threaten him. now, his 2024 campaign message is that, i mean, it went from being this thing that he so normalized with his own base that they barely even registered. a lot of other people shrug and say this is always what he's wanted to do. at the end of the day it represents the most brazenly anti-democratic corruption anyone has hfr run on, run for in our country's history. >> this is one where it's hard to talk about this without people thinking that you're engaging in hyperbole because you're not. i remember that, too, nicole, i remember being on the special counsel mueller's team and i remember an interview that was done with senators murkowski and collins where they said to the journalist, it doesn't work that way. you don't get to choose your prosecutor. and just think how far we've come from that where there aren't people in congress who are willing to really stand up on the republican side, or independents, and speak for democracy. but you really have the former president saying that he is going to continue to do what he did, but he is taking additional steps. so, you know, we're on a panel with pete stzrok who we hardly need to talk about, the former president just thinking about going against people who he disagrees with, or uses a threat, or should seek to hold him to account, pete is a living exhibit to that. but so are many others who have been the subject of his vitriol and worse. and he -- as you said, is going to do it with respect to attacking the whole idea of civil servants in the justice department of not having people who are insufficiently loyal where he's now including people like pat cipillone and don mcgahn, and even bill barr, saying that's not even loyal enough to him, and he's also spoken about using the pardon power to pardon people like everyone in january 6th insurrection, so that you have a complete undermining of the rule of law with that combination of powers that are in the hands of the executive when they are not wielded responsibly. >> i don't like to point this out but for the purpose of this conversation i'm going to. what he's done to you, pete, and, you know, he had jim comey, and andy mccabe, and -- he's targeted and encouraged prosecutions, in some cases successfully, into a lot of people that threatened him because of his perception that the rule of law would harm him in some way. and this is the part that i'm reluctant to share, but going to do it. it's working. this is from nbc's reporting. in march of 2023 the pew research center found that 38% of republicans and republican-leaning adults had a favorable view of the fbi. 53% had an unfavorable view of the bureau. mind you, it's been led by christopher wray who trump hand-picked after republican chris christie recommended him. back to th reporting, that is a significant rapid shift among republicanvoters, over just a few years of the trump era. in 2018 49% of those republicans and republican-leaning adults viewed the fbi favorably, and 44% viewed it unfavorably. back in january of 2017 just before trump took offic 65% of repuicans had a favorable view of the fbi, 21% had an unfavorable view, and in 2010 71% of republicans had a favorable view of the fbi. can the fbi do what it needs to do, and do so safely, if only 38% of republicans in this country have confidence in it, pete? >> well, i think the fbi is going to do what it needs to do, the question is, what is the impact on morale? what is the impact on the ability of those agents and investigators and prosecutors to do their job? i mean, look, i was struck earlier this week, carol was on with you, she talked about the bodies on the floor following crossfire hurricane and as i listened to trump talk about not only going after political enemies but looking at jay in the fbi, i can't help but think about colleagues of mine, some of whom still are in the fbi, who have legal teams who have massive legal bills because of this huge apparatus. it's not just trump. remember, the same congressional enablers now fighting to impeach joe biden and gum up the works with anything being criminally done with trump are the same people working with him to attack the fbi and doj. and you add in certain right wing media who adds to that chorus, that's the reason why we have such a negative public perception. of course the fbi is going to keep doing their job but it absolutely takes a toll. people on the inside are well aware of what happens when you engage in an investigation that implicates trump. and that carries a cost. and i hate to say it, it does have an impact on the morale within the organization. doesn't stop people from doing their job, but it certainly makes it a far, far more difficult place to go in and do your job. >> it also, pete, the attacks land on an agency very much like the military that doesn't have an ounce of sort of political rapid response in their dna, so when tucker carlson is smearing the military up and down, right and left, they don't have the ability to go on fox and defend themselves. the fbi seems similarly hamstrung by design and by culture to defend itself. even with that, and if you disagree please tell me, but is there more that can be done to bolster the integrity of the agency, specifically as it's been led by trump's hand-picked director? >> well, first of all, i think you're exactly right, i mean, the notion of the sort of ethos of the fbi ethically is that we don't take political sides, that you don't talk about investigations that aren't public, that you speak through your charging documents. when it comes to somebody making obscene, absurd allegations that this is an unmerited investigation, the fbi simply can't go and say, well, here are all the facts that we have at our possession, at our fingertips, to explain why we go out and we're doing an investigation. that's just simply not the way the justice system works. so in some ways the ability to engage, and sort of push back on some of these false narratives is extraordinarily limited just by the way that the fbi is designed, not to make public information, that should not be made public. now, when it comes to how you do push back, this is something i am glad to see director wray recently leaning forward a little bit in his most recent congressional testimony over the past several months defending the fbi, talking about the work, but it really falls to people outside of the fbi and doj, to rise to make a more spirited defense because as you point out, again, the system is not designed to allow the fbi and doj to do that. again, a.g. garland, i think, can and has done some of that. i'd like to hear more of it from the senior leadership at doj and the fbi, but no question about it, this is a very difficult time to be working in this context. >> carol leonnig, the body of your reporting contributed enormously, but perhaps no more so than in giving voice to these voiceless institutions, to telling the story of what was going on, not just inside the military, but inside a tank briefing, where you revealed, i think to the world for the first time, that they were all flabbergasted by his stupidity and his political impulses in that room and lack of presenting anything of a presidential temperament and also the cia, you had the earliest report in the unease about trump in the highest levels in the intelligence agencies as well as in the justice department. and i wonder, i mean, this -- the thing with trump is, he ran on lock her up so people see this and they're like he's always been for locking up his political prisoners. this is different. he has people putting together an architecture to hijack all of the levers of independence that exist in the justice department, and the fbi, and place them, you know, inside the oval office under his desk next to the button he presses to get a diet coke. that is the plan for the next go-around. i wonder if you, sort of with all of your sort of knowledge of what he tried to do last time, how you evaluate the plans that are now out in the open this time. >> well, i've been thinking a lot about how different this moment is than what phil rucker and i reported back in 2017 to 2019. mine, a lot of people joked that you didn't have to go very far to see what donald trump was thinking because he was tweeting it at 2:00 in the morning, and again at 10:00 a.m. and yet he's saying out loud something that is so understandably frightening to people who care about the rule of law, myself among them, even though i'm a journalist, the rule of law distinguishes our country. it's a principle that we uphold, and that means we don't gin up and frame people without evidence. and while -- forgive me. many of your viewers may not like the former attorney general bill barr, i am sort of sputtering to think what could be the crime that bill barr was involved in by being disloyal to donald trump. imagine that, that he wants an investigation of the former attorney general for telling him, you know we investigated potential election fraud. we threw away 20 years of norms and decided to investigate an election in process because you thought there was fraud. we found none. so what's the crime there? think about the difference that -- how different that is than how merrick garland and the current attorney general's leadership team proceeded in very gingerly, cautiously, ponderously, and some people say it took them too long to investigate, really, quite clear evidence of a potential crime in terms of overturning the election. in terms of submitting false electors in a coordinated scheme that appears to have been run by rudy giuliani, none other than the president's number one campaign adviser. the difference is so stark. you asked about at the top of the hour about guardrails and the institutions, what is donald trump doing now? he's not just tweeting, boy, we really should investigate that pete strzok, or firing mr. mccabe for the ig investigation that found he didn't give accurate answers, he's saying let's investigate people willy nilly that i don't like and that hurt me. >> right. >> that is -- that's really different, and really, i think, excuse for multiple hours of your show. >> let me read one of them. because it happened right before we came on the air. andrew weissmann, this was a truth social, a tweet, whatever he does there. he tweeted this, judge -- should end the witch hunt, with the bizarre captainlations i'll have to get over. i have totally won this case which should never have been brought. the only fraud, again capitalized, was committed by attorney general letitia james in convincing the judge mar-a-lago was worth only 18 million in order to make my numbers look bad when it's 50 to 100 times that amount. she campaigned on getting trump. she should be prosecuted. we know it's him usually by the weird capitalizations and punctuations, so we can be pretty sure this is him. and to carol's point this is a prosecutor that has stood up every day at the court us and -- courthouse and said i will not be intimidated. he seeks to punish her for perhaps going after the thing he cherishes most, his brand as a successful businessman, which a body of reporting had already made clear was a fraud. but now a judge has found it to be a fraud, in that civil trial. what do you make of what he's -- the impact of putting this out there, and running on this message? >> well, i think it is part and parcel of attacking the rule of law because it is attacking the judicial system. he is having his day in court. that's the way it works. he is -- has an opportunity in court to convince the judge why he is right, starting monday he will be calling witnesses in his case, as is his right and his co-defendants, that's the way the system works, whether it's a civil case or a criminal case. and when you don't like the outcome, especially as somebody who was in the government attacking the umpire is not a way that you instill confidence in the system. but i think his entire goal is to delegitimize the system, delegitimize people in law enforcement, delegitimize journalists like you and carol. it's to have no checks and balances. these are really the tools of an autocrat. and one final point is in terms of attacking the judicial system, which we're going to see continue because of the upcoming criminal cases is he has a number of enablers, for instance elise stefanik filed a complaint against the judge. that is so irresponsible. she knows better. and that is really -- this idea that it's constantly a step too far and it's now normalized where you have somebody in congress doing that, and the judge is just doing his job, you may disagree with him, you can say that, you can say he's missed evidence, but really, a complaint against him for doing his job beyond the pail. >> i'm thinking of don mcgahn who ended up spending close to 30 hours telling robert mueller a lot of what he would learn about volume two efforts to obstruct the investigation, thinking about pat cipillone, star witnesses in the january 6th select committee, you're looking at people, i won't put it on a right/left pendulum but the autocratic impulses of very conservative lawyers. are they coming up in the post-reporting about who would put this policy in place for trump? >> i think i'm going to completely duck that question. >> fair. >> largely because i think it's really the choice of my colleagues whether or not they want to share that, and i don't want to cross any lines there. but i will just, if you're giving many ethe final word, i think i will say one thing that i found so striking about donald trump's interview with univision the other day was him saying -- well, he mixed up his metaphors, as he often does, they let the genie out of the box, this allows me to come after somebody who may be winning the election, who i don't like, who didn't support me. another stunner if you just put it in perspective. his idea that he's being investigated based on perfectly predicated evidence of a potential crime and a reason to open an investigation, i mean, so much more than a reason, i can't even tell you the people i've interviewed who said, okay, we have such a ton of this material. >> yeah. >> a tiny fraction of it would have been a predicate. so this idea that now -- and the genie's out of the box, he can investigate anybody who is a political foe? with what? based on what? everyone, everyone should be worried about this. what does it mean for the two election workers in georgia whose lives were completely ruined because they counted the ballots and they correctly submitted the results? and their lives were ruined, and they never left their homes for month. what does it mean for a young former veteran who is really excited about representing his district and doesn't swear fealty to donald trump. imagine all the iterations of this genie out of the box idea that he has. >> we will keep imagining them here with your help. it's really terrifying. carol leonnig and pete strozk, thank you for sticking around with us on this. the $250 million civil fraud case against him that's driving him crazy, that effort has failed and now the defense must present its case. it happens monday morning. we will preview what that will look like as well as the allies, andrew previewed that for us already. then a feel-good mood for democrats at least for now, president joe biden setting his sights on 2024, seeking to frame a winning message on reproductive rights and freedom, and on unions, later in the program, the judge in the classified documents case has declined the criminally charged ex-president's request to postpone his may trial, at least for now, but the judge has an asterisk on the order. we'll explain what that means much more when "deadline white house" continues. tinues i brought in ensure max protein with 30 grams of protein. those who tried me felt more energy in just two weeks. -ahh, -here, i'll take that. woo hoo! ensure max protein 30 grams protein, one gram sugar, 25 vitamins and minerals, and nutrients for immune health. 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(♪♪) a hail mary attempt to call it a wrap on the new york civil fraud trial has failed a day after the new york attorney general's office rested its case trump's lawyers asked the judge to clear trump, trump's companies, and executives from trump's companies from any and all wrongdoing, seeking what is known s directed verdict. the judge did no such thing. it is worth noting he has already said that he's found proof of years of fraud. and he said that the trial will go on for now. on monday donald trump jr. will return to the stand as the first witness for the defense. with the trial revealing a steady drip of damning allegations about the trump business and leading to a gag order for trump the gop has stepped in now to carry some of the ex-president's water as he flails. as andrew mentioned in the earlier block elise stefanik filed an ethics complaint against the judge, she accuses him of weaponized -- and on the front lines covering this trial for us here, andrew is with us. let's deal we lease stefanik because andrew teed this up in our last conversation. is there any merit to the allegation. she's been there to carry trump's water in a congressional sense, is this the same? >> yes and no. elise stefanik's letter begins with partial and selected quotations from hearing that read in entirety are not evocative of bias. for example, the quote about her saying that judge engoron characterized trump as just a bad guy that was him responding to allegations that trump was being selectively prosecuted saying repeatedly he doesn't fit into a protective class and that the attorney general is within her rights to make the decision that he is just a bad guy who needs to be prosecuted for his crimes. that's just one example of the selective quotation. the campaign contribution allegations, nicole, are of a different variety. and they may turn out to be true, and a violation of new york rules of judicial conduct. however, i've consulted with a fairly prominent lawyer, very well versed in these rules. and that person tells me, that's not a basis for invalidating or overturning any of these decisions on appeal, it's not a basis even for removing judge arthur engoron from the case. if anything it would be a basis for discipline. i think the trump lawyers knew that. they were hinting at allegations of campaign contributions that it emanated from a bright bot report, late last week and they told the judge on monday, the same day trump was on the stand that they intend to make a motion for mistrial about them. my guess is that they realized that it's not the basis for a mistrial, it's not the basis for an ail peel, and so what did they do? they got elise stefanik to be a part of this complaint and put it in her voice to a different body, not to a court but to a commission on judicial conduct where it sits under new york rules until they decide it should be dismissed or investigated. and that could take months. which means the allegations will stay out there unchallenged unless engoron himself decides to take them on. >> this is the exact conversation we were just having about institutions like the fbi and the military that can't defend themselves from baseless attacks, that they're not structurally or culture ally positioned to respond to political attacks and it sounds like elise stefanik put in the letter what she would say on fox news. >> the letter looks like a legal brief. it is heavily footnoted, contains citations to case law and statutes. it appears as if it were written by a lawyer, which elise stefanik, all the things she is, a white house alum, a mom, a harvard graduate, is not. i have a belief that elise stefanik was brought into this effort when they realized that using these allegations s.a.t. basis to get rid of this case wasn't going to work. >> andrew weissmann, what is the path forward here? what do you think happens next? >> well, i think that the trial is going to go forward. this is an opportunity with respect to a number of the causes of action that have not been decided. for donald trump, and don jr., and eric trump, and the entities to say why there isn't the requisite intent, there isn't materiality, why they acted in good faith, they can put on evidence as to that. remember, these causes of action, the ones that have not -- that are on trial, are different than the one cause of action that judge engoron ruled in favor of the state. that already happened before the trial began in a summary judgment motion, but that cause of action didn't require, even though it's called fraud, didn't require the state to prove intent or materiality. so, i think a lot of the evidence you hear will go to that. to the extent that the evidence is going to legal issues and not just making political speeches. there certainly will be a fair amount of the latter. but on the law part it will be focused on, again, intent and materiality, and then just to be clear the next part is that the state will get a chance to respond to those allegations. so this will take several more weeks. the defense has said that they expect their case to last until december 15th. >> wow. >> so we have quite a ways to go. >> what do you make of don jr. as the first defense witness? what does that strategy behind that? >> i don't quite know, other than that -- >> okay, it's not just me. >> no, it's not just you. >> okay. >> other than don jr. and eric as the two principal leaders of the business right now have a stake in defending themselves against one of the aspects of relief that the attorney general has asked for, which is a lifetime ban on their conducting business in the state of new york. and so, based on something one of their lawyers said last week, i think that would be a metric that would hurt both trump brothers very seriously in the conduct of the business, even if the businesses themselves were not dissolved. don jr. has a desire to come and defend himself and do so in a way that goes beyond the scope of the attorney general's direct examination last week. andrew can tell you that one of the reasons they didn't want to cross-examine their own witnesses is not because they're not hostile to them, they want to elicit testimony on subjects that go well beyond what the attorney general is interested in. so i would expect them to go into, at great length, the relationship that both boys had with the accountants, with the lawyers, how they spent their days, which they have insisted was at a very high macro level of management, but yet -- >> one of them poured concrete. >> can't remember which one. >> it was eric, he poured concrete, into operations, not into gap. and they're going to have to thread the needle carefully, they were expert in the real estate angle of the business, and yet not so steeped in any of the details relating to their family finances that they can be held accountable for the intent that andrew says, rightly, is an element of the remaining claims here. >> andrew, this might be a dumb question, but as someone who was investigating and prosecuting people close to trump when you were on the mueller team, we cover the attacks on judge engoron and his clerk, and attorney general letitia james and we cover their public statements of defiance, we will not be deterred. what impact buzz it actually have, if harder to detect? >> you mean in terms of personally, how the judge and the law clerk and the parties? >> right, does it leave you, you know, wanting to overcompensate, and prove that you're extra fair to the person attacking you all the time? does it leave you scared that if you do your job, and simply look at the facts, you may face threats? does it leave you distracted? does it leave you diminished? what is the actual effect of being threatened while investigating or prosecuting something dear to trump? >> i think i'm going to answer that two separate ways. one, i think there's an effect on people who are outside the system who are thinking, gee, do i really want to get involved in this? maybe somebody else can have this case, maybe somebody else can prosecute it, do i have to -- do i really want to take this on? do i want the threats to my family? do i want to become a public figure when i really just wanted to stay behind scenes and do my job? so i think there's that component of people just want to keep their head down and do their job. so it does have that deterrent effect. i think what you're seeing, both from judge chutkan, and from judge engoron is in some ways overcompensating. if you notice both of the judges in their partial -- they were limited, judge engoron is much more limited than judge chutkan's, they both carved out the ability of donald trump to attack the judge. now, if you weren't overcompensating you would normally be like, you can't do that either, can't attack staff and you can't attack me. i think that's because people -- it doesn't have an effect on doing your job, if anything, it steels you to the fact that that is the rule of law, and i'm confident we were talking about the fbi with pete strzok, that is how the fbi and the agents there, and the analysts there are built, it is not going to have a deterrence effect. with respect to people in the justice department, main justice in the field, it's going to have the same effect. but i do think there's an overcompensating to make sure that you are not in any way going to be tagged as being unfair. >> thank you for fielding that question. i know that was a bit of a curve ball. andrew weissmann and lisa reuben. thank you for being there. i went back and read the lawsuit and all of sue and russ's coverage, and the trial is so explosive because of how -- and you always sort of get at this, how intertwined trump's ego is in the perception of his businesses. it's just been riveting. thank you so much for all your reporting from there. >> thank you for having me. >> thank you so much. up next for us, president joe biden has a little bit of mo, momentum that is behind him after this week's resounding wins for democratic candidates and causes. we'll show you what that looks like next. febreze! hi. i keep my home fresh with febreze fade defy plug. and i use this. febreze has a microchip to digitally control how much scent is released so it doesn't fade. ooh. does mine have a microchip? 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(feedback rings) have a choice in how you invest with schwab. the american workers are ready to work harder than anybody else, but they just need to be given a shot. a fair shot and a fair wage. that's not too much to ask. you okay? i want the press to know that wasn't me. >> those are usually the best moments that any politician has, and for him that is certainly the case. president joe biden, and for the rest of his party as well, a moment of levity at the tail end of an objectively wildly successful week for the democrats. there he was speaking to union workers in illinois, just prior to a fund raising event in chicago in which he claimed some credit for his party's electoral achievements this week. from nbc news, quote, the biden-harris agenda has taken hold, he said, people are winning elections on it over and over and over. specifically, biden touted the reelection of govno andy beshear, saying he was reelected after running on programs that were all biden initiatives. he also pointed to democratic wins in ohio, where voters passed a ballot initiative that enshrines abortion rights in that state's constitution, and in doing so president biden took aim at his potential opponent next november by saying, quote, the only reason abortion is banned in america is because of donald trump. joining our conversation princeton university professor and msnbc contributor eddie glaude with us at the table, president of the national action network, host of politics nation, the reverend al sharpton. i know my viewers hate seeing donald trump but this is something i'm going to play every day i have to. here's donald trump taking credit for ending roe versus wade. >> president trump is going to make a determination, what he thinks is great for the country, and what's fair for the country, but the fact that i was able to terminate roe v. wade after 50 years of trying, they worked were 50 years. i've never seen anything like it, they worked -- and i was even -- i was so honored to have done it. well, i did something that nobody thought was possible, i got rid of roe v. wade. and by doing that -- by doing that it put pro-lifers in a very strong negotiating position. nobody did a job like i did, including roe v. wade, bringing it back to the states. and what i did by killing roe v. wade, which everyone said was impossible -- >> it's a 15% issue for him, 15% of the country is with him on that. joe biden has available to him, to try to persuade in the next 12 months 83% of the country who thinks that abortion should be legal, and some are all instances. >> no doubt about it. i think that if joe biden's campaign doesn't use the clip -- or part of the clip you just playedsh do. >> i'll send it to him. >> it would be political malpractice. you saw, and if you look at the breakdown of the votes in the states, you saw conservatives and even some republicans that voted against these measures because people are saying even if i don't agree personally with an abortion i don't think i have the right to tell women what to do. and i couldn't think of a more unpopular thing to take credit for if i was donald trump than to take credit for what has really caused the midterm elections last time to go down, this time to go down, and now we see what happened on tuesday night. it is -- has been a real political liability for the republican party, and he's bragging about what he did to make it happen. it also is one that i've been able to talk particularly on my radio show to people, that those people that are saying why should we be voting? well, we wouldn't have had those three justices had it not been for donald trump, and you voted in '16 because hillary clinton wouldn't have put you there. i tell people all the time if you didn't vote, you elected those three judges that killed roe versus wade affirmative action and other things. >> eddie glaude, i think when the decision leaked and then was what was leaked, politically a lot of people thought it could go either way, right, it could be an animating issue for women who were already animated around the issue, or it could have been tied to democracy, and this gut thing that voters of all ages, and all gender, and of all backgrounds feel is the natural extension of overturning roe. and josh shapiro made that argument, made it in the midterms, governor beshear made that argument, vice president kamala harris has made that argument over and over and over again. the best-case scenario for the vice president and the president is that voters have perceived. voters have connected, donald trump's promise, caught on tape, bragging about overturning roe to overturning or weakening or changing our democracy, taking away a right that's been enjoyed for 50 years isn't just a woman's issue. anyone with a kid, a daughter or a son does not want to live in a country or 83% of them at least where abortion is a crime. and i wonder what you think democrats do to make sure that that connection stays strong in the minds of voters over the next 12 months. >> well, what they need to do is continue to play that commentary to themselves over and over again as well as the footage you just gave of donald trump. because it's a really important point. remember, when trump goes into office we have the women's march, right, which is really, really this huge gathering, we have the me too movement, it's viewed as this kind of special interest kind of particular issue driven for a particular demographic. then you have this moment, remember youngkin. youngkin wins because suburban white women are worried about what's happening to their students, their children, in schools, right, and we get moms for liberty, but what happened on tuesday? not only did we see the abortion issue, right, take off, right, i mean, drive folk to the polls, moms for liberty got wiped out. i mean, i think they won one of the races that they endorsed. what you see across the board, i think, is exactly your point, nicole, that folks are seeing this not just simply as an issue for women, but as an indication that folk are coming for their freedoms and liberties. >> yeah, and i mean, to your point, eddie, in ohio, majorities of men, women, young people, old people, white people, black people, and latino people voted to enshrine abortion access in the state constitution. i mean, it's so explicit. >> in ohio. >> in ohio, right, right, it's a 41% issue, a 60% -- a 41% approval rating for biden, a 60% issue that gives him a lot of room to go make his case there. i need both of you to stick around. we have so much more to ask you about on the week that was, the president's recent wins, don't go anywhere. type 2 diabetes? discover the ozempic® tri-zone. ♪ ♪ i got the power of 3. i lowered my a1c, cv risk, and lost some weight. in studies, the majority of people reached an a1c under 7 and maintained it. i'm under 7. ozempic® lowers the risk of major cardiovascular events such as stroke, heart attack, or death in adults also with known heart disease. i'm lowering my risk. adults lost up to 14 pounds. i lost some weight. ozempic® isn't for people with type 1 diabetes. don't share needles or pens, or reuse needles. don't take ozempic® if you or your family ever had medullary thyroid cancer, or have multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2, or if allergic to it. stop ozempic® and get medical help right away if you get a lump or swelling in your neck, severe stomach pain, or an allergic reaction. serious side effects may include pancreatitis. gallbladder problems may occur. tell your provider about vision problems or changes. taking ozempic® with a sulfonylurea or insulin may increase low blood sugar risk. side effects like nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea may lead to dehydration, which may worsen kidney problems. living with type 2 diabetes? ask about the power of 3 with ozempic®. i'm sarah escherich, i'm the life enrichment director at independence village, the senior living community in waukee, iowa. everybody here really, really make you feel like family and that they love you. our goal with tiktok was to enrich the lives of our residents and just to be able to show people what senior living can be like. i think i am a tiktok grandma. my kids think i am. i mean, we're the ones that are being entertained. time goes faster when you're having fun. he says he stands with auto workers, but as president, donald trump passed tax breaks for his rich friends while automakers shuttered their plants. and the u.s. lost manufacturing jobs. joe biden said he'd stand up for workers, and he's delivering, passing laws that are increasing wages and creating good-paying jobs. manufacturing is coming back to america because joe biden doesn't just talk -- he delivers. >> i'm joe biden, and i approve this message. >> back with eddie and the rev. seems like a vitally important message to make sure it gets through. >> i think it's a very important message, particularly when everyone in this country first and foremost votes with their pocketbook. >> right. >> here you have a president that is identifying openly with labor, the only president to ever walk a picket line with the union, and that union just won and won big time. i think that for joe biden to be synonymous with that win is something that is extraordinarily important as you go into '24 and be running against, by all polls right now, donald trump, who's been anti- and with billionaires and zillionaires. it could be a better layup for them. yes, the polls are where they are. they were there when president obama was facing re-election and when jimmy carter was penalty v but i think he has all of the elements. the stage is set for joe biden to really benefit because he took the risk of stepping out there with these unions, to go to a picket line. no president ever did that, and that union won big this week. >> eddie, i wonder how you assess -- i mean, the president doesn't have a policy problem. the president seems to have a punch-through problem, right, because if you -- if the president and vice president are trying to reassemble their winning coalition, they have made progress, they have largely done what they have said they were going to do. and as the rev said, the polls look like some of that message hasn't punched through yet. how do you sort of assess the moment? >> you know, when the president looks and sounds like the old democrats, when he looks and sounds like the third way, i think there's a constituency out there that tends to read him as simply the old politics. when he seems to be trying to step outside of the traditional frames, there's a kind of excitement. the first president to ever join a picket line with uaw. but think about it. just a year before that, what did he do with regard to the railroad strikes, right? there's a sense in which there are these moments when he seems to be read as simply politics as usual and people are thinking we need something different and bolder, and then there are moments he seems to be read as someone who's opening the path for a different kind of politics. i think narrative-wise, nicolle, they need to hit the latter over and over again, show how president biden is clearing the path for a different way in which we can conceive of our politics and do politics together, it seems to me. >> i think eddie is exactly right. and i think that might be closer to how he sees himself. joe biden has said he sees himself as this transitional figure, and there's no one more front and center that transition is part of the conversation with the country than kamala harris, especially on the issue of abortion. >> i think kamala harris has been tremendously effective on the issue of abortion. and i think that joe biden, being more of an activist president, in many areas, but clearly with the labor unions, is the way to go. but i also think we cannot underestimate what will drive a lot of voters is the -- donald trump, if you were sitting in the back of the democrat ing national committee and wanted to make up an opponent and have everything that you needed to beat him, trump gives you that. >> he's so extreme that there's no, like, well -- >> and he's proud of it. not even somebody extreme trying to play it down. he's screaming from the rooftops like you played about abortions and like he deals with labor and other issues. i mean, he bragged -- he put the judges on the court that reversed affirmative action. so you don't have anything to worry about other than if the biden people do not know to say we did this, look at the alternative. >> is it your advice to the white house and the campaign to start making that contrast right now? >> i think they must make it now. i think what they the calculated, and it ended up being wrong, is they thought some of the republicans in the republican primaries would start beating up on trump. they didn't. so, when somebody doesn't beat up your little brother's opponent, you'll have to jump in the ring and beat him up yourself. they'll have to take the gloves off. >> the enduring mystery for me until the end of time, when you look at the fact they're 30 to 50 points behind, why not? >> why not is the real question. and you've got everything to work with. and don't expect nikki haley and the rest to do your work for you. get in there and start swinging. >> all right. rev, eddie, to be continued. thanks for spending time with us on this friday. news on one of the upcoming federal trials is next. but we help you shape your financial story. ♪♪ we're not an airline, but our network connects global businesses across nearly 160 markets. ♪♪ we're not a startup, but our innovation labs use new technologies to help keep your information secure. ♪♪ we're not architects, but we help build stronger communities. ♪♪ we're not just any bank. we are citi. ♪♪ [city ambience sounds] [car screech] [car door slam] [camera shutter sfx] introducing ned's plaque psoriasis. 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[ting] ♪♪ live in the moment. ask your doctor about otezla. the government's agenda was to get those -- protect those documents and get them out, and i think it was perfectly appropriate to do that. it was the right thing to do. and i think the counts under the espionage act that he willfully retained those documents are solid counts. now, i think we have to wait and see what the defense says and what proves to be true. but i think even half of what andy mccarthy said, if even half of it is true, then he's toast. >> the he's toast part was what you needed to see before we get to this next story. hi, everyone. an update in the criminal case against donald trump over the hoarding of national defense and documents. bill barr believes he is controversy. aileen cannon has rejected the effort by trump to push the trial past the 2024 presidential election for now. in a new filing, she said the may 20th, 2024 dat she set back in july would stay, again, for now. our colleague, lisa ruben, describes the order as one that, quote, cemented her role as the lucy with the football with the federal judiciary, because she didn't push the date back, she left open the chance of doing so when the sides meet on march isst. she did push back several pretrial deadlines and acknowledged the unprecedented volume of discovery in this case that is complicated by its classified nature. meanwhile, reporting from cnn sheds light on potential witnesses the prosecution may call that reporting says, in addition to those closest to trump, valuable witnesses may include low-leveltaffers at mar-a-lago, including a plumber, a maid, a chauffeur, and a woodworker. from cnn's reporting, "other likely witnesses also include trump's secret service agents, former intelligence officials, as well as people who were in theoom with trump when he was captured on multiple audio recordings referencing a military document abo potential plan to bomb iran." that's according to sources familiar w it. but the low-level workers, who are the eyes and ears of mar-a-lago, if called to testify, could offer public a new level of insight into the usiv clause and trump's approach to sensitive national security information since he left office. some of them are still employed at mar-a-lago. trump obviously angered by the reporting, he criticized cnn and the special counsel that then confirmed the details by saying, of course various people saw paper and box bs at his florida club. he then falsely argued that he had the right to have that material under the presidential records act, which isn't a thing that gave him that right. that's where we start the hour. former deputy assistant attorney general and former u.s. attorney harry lipman is back. former acting assistant attorney general for national security at the u.s. department of justice, mary mccord is here. and former top national security official, brandon. as i read all your titles, i'm grateful to have you all to talk to about this. i hope someday you are back in there, because it feels like we're going to need it. i feel with this case i'm always reminded of donald trump's indifference to u.s. national security. i wonder, brandon, if you're or with worried about that and plugged into the political calendar, should we be worried that the judge has done something that will likely push this trial back? >> i think it is very fair to say that it is up likely this trial will now happen on may 20th, even though the judge has technically preserved that date. if you look at the order and the deadlines and even the language there, it seems unlikely. i'll say it possible but unlikely. the deadlines were shifted anywhere from a month to three months from where they were originally. there are even some -- some hearings and filings that are necessary that the judge didn't even schedule, which signals that even this now prolonged time frame, the judge has concerns that it will be met. on top of that, the deadlines between the filings and hearings, they're really nice cushions, so it suggests that even after we get to these hearings, it's sort of unlikely we'll see this judge ramp things up. >> brandon, what do you do about that? >> well, first thing is, it is not unusual or unheard of for a judge to choose a deadline that one or both parties don't agree with. and so, part of this is you adhere to that schedule. i think you'll see the doj do everything they can to adhere to it and try to convince this judge that even under this deadline they can still meet the may 20th deadline, which is true. it's possible. but there's one sort of particular point in here, which is some of the judge's rulings already are going to make it complicated or difficult. she sort of turned classified discovery, the process, a little bit up on its head, and it's going to take a little more time for the department of justice to handle it. >> mary, what is the consequence of this trial getting pushed out? >> well, obviously, that could have an impact on other trials, because right now we don't know when fani willis in georgia will schedule the next trial. it's interesting to me that in that case is judge hasn't, at least so far as i know, hn't asked her, you know, when is the date you want to go to trial against mr. trump and the remaining defendants. but by maintaining this may 20th trial date by judge cannon maintaining it, that date is sort of off the table for fani willis. yet, as brandon just indicated, given the schedule that judge cannon has now set for so many of the pretrial proceedings that have to take place before they can even think about starting the trial, it seems highly likely that may 20 date will not remain, yet will it become available, you know, too late for fani willis to potentially slot her trial in there. so, there's this sort of domino effect with the various trials. the other pocket, of course, is that this could go before the e lbs, and i would say that's fairly likely. one of the interesting things about the way judge cannon wrote this order, i will say i felt like she was bending over backwards a little to sort of not cast blame on any of the parties, including jack smith and his team, and sometimes he's been quick to cast blame on him. she is didn't do that here. she blames it on the volume of the classified documents and what she says is going to be a more significant and anticipated section 4 hearing. and this is a hearing where the government can come to the court, it's ex parte, and defense counsel are no t there, and say to the court, here are the things we want to keep out of discovery, and because e either don't think they're relevant and need to be turned over, or because they're so sensitive we want to redact them or create substitutions. these are things she'll have to rule on herself. she'll have to read all these materials, have argument, make assessments. i think she's frankly trying to leave hearst lot of space to do that, which is another reason i agree with brandon that i just don't think this trial date of may 20th is going to hold >> harry lipman, a little more from the judge's filing. "the crt cannot ignore the realities of pretile and trial schedules in two other matters identified by defense counsel. although the special counsel is correct that the tractory of these matters remains in flux, the schedules as they stand overp with the deadlines in this case, presenting additional challenges to ensure defendant trump has adequate time to prepare for trial and assist in his defense." i read these. it seemed to articulate the opposite, that there was plenty of time to do both. is it also fair to read cannon as more sympathetic to trump's voluminous alleged crimes against him? >> 100%. it's an order that the more you look at i, the more problematic it seems. to your point, nicolle, if you go back to what the government had to say, they gave many reasons that trump's arguments for a continuance didn't fly, that, in fact, it's not so much discovery, in fact, the government has provided more than it's supposed to. cannon ignored those all together in a sort of five-page really one-sided summary up top, and that was, you know, one side as you read it more closely that it's going exactly where mary and brandon say. and notice the very end of the point you cited, which is she's suggesting a due-process claim, not simply how much time do you need. she's suggesting that, when the time comes, she is going to say that trump's constitutional rights would be abridged if he doesn't get this sort of enormous delay. and one more point. what mary said, it is a complicated notion, but here's a way of simplifying it. on the section 4 skirmish that will happen, before, if there was a week between the procedure that mary outlined and the hearing, now it's something like seven weeks. it really suggests she is ready to adopt a very novel procedure that trump is asking for to take what should be an ex parte or just between the government and the court process, and make it adversary. in many ways, the more you read it, the more it seems like a very pro-trump order cam flanneled, which is a problem in and of itself, camouflaged as a neutral order. >> so, brandon, currently eight years. trump, since mueller existed, and you have intimate knowledge of what that was like on the inside, has always sought to delay. that's always been his strategy, for things to just take longer and then for the political landscape to change and for that to take care of his problems. is it as clear to anyone who's covered trump politically to jack smith that that is exactly his defense strategy here? >> well, i think that is part of it, but i wanted to spend a moment talking about what mary and harry just talked about in terms of this section 4, because delay is part of it. but the other part of it is to understand the procedure and where we're at right now, which is you keep hearing the classified information procedures act. there are procedures to protect classified information in these cases to avoid the government having to choose between pursuing criminal charges and having to disclose classified information in a way that would compromise it. one of the court features of this process is what's called section 4, controlling the handling and the production of classified information. and what the judge has ordered, and exactly in terms of the time line that harry just described, is the judge has flipped the process on its head. the way the process typically works through all my time at the department of justice, is that the production is made to defense counsel, cleared defense counsel for the defendant, who are not accused of compromising or harming national security. and some of the documents can go to the defendant, but oftentimes there is some material that doesn't go to the defendant. it's the defense counsel that has to make the argument, these materials should go to my client. the reason that's the case is because there are individuals, terrorists, spies, who the government understandably does not want to provide classified information. these individuals have already showed the potential intent to harm national security. and by the judge indicating in a prior ruling and through the time line here is, well, actually, the defendant should get all this classified information, it puts the onus on the government to try to pull it back. i go through all that procedural history because i think the other thing that's going to happen here is i think we're setting the stage for the court to order in some instances the government to produce information to defendants that they are reluctant or don't want to produce. and i think you're laying the groundwork for potential appeals and issues that are sort of the precursor to gray mail. >> the term is gray mail. it's the derivative of blackmail. trump is in a category with terrorists, spies, and trump. i want to ask you, i want to understand whether the heart of this issue is about endangering national defense information by its handling, right? it's not just about leaking classified information. all the photo exhibits are in the indictment because it's about endangering national defense information by their handling. who comes in and is the arbiter of that? if it's the judge saying that the guy that endangered national defense information that should see it is making a call that the government thinks it endangers national security. brandon? >> well, and so, this is the challenge of cipa, the challenge of the prosecutors in this case. these are the reasons why these procedures exist. and even though for many people the term cipa, the procedures are new, they've been around for decades. some of the most experienced cipa attorneys are with the department of department of justice presenting these arguments and cases. it is the reason why you have a judge who makes decisions that are unusual, unprecedented, that doesn't follow those processes, you do run that risk. it is a very real concern. and it's the reason why, again, i think -- again, flipping it on it head, by sort of assuming by default these defendants should get all the classified information, it runs the risk of that concern. so, you know, we'll see what happens. i think this is also the basis of the department of justice appeals to a higher court. >> mary, as an outsider, nonlawyer, nonexpert in these legal matters and procedures, ken has been rebuked by the extremely conservative 11th circuit and by a judge who was made a master in this case. how did it get to this point? >> well, it's interesting, because i don't think she should have ever been handle the matter that she ended up getting rebuked for by the 11th circuit to begin with. trump came in after a search warrant had been executed in furtherance of obtaining evidence for potential criminal prosecution, which, of course, did become a criminal prosecution. he then went in and sought separately, through civil litigation, to prevent the government from looking at the materials that had been seized. that in and of itself was unusual, which is partly why, of course, she was reversed on that. so, then, of course, to have her then actually be the judge who drew the supervision of the criminal prosecution is just very unfortunate, to put it mildly. i had some hopes that, because of the experience with the 11th circuit, that she would be, you know, a lot more open minded this time to both sides and a lot more -- take more care with her legal rulings and so on and so forth. you know, some of that still remains to be seen. i understand harry's point that this is sort of a disguised order that's disguised to look neutral but very much leans in favor of trump, but some of the things i think we just haven't seen yet -- and the problem is we probably won't. so, for example, these cipa proceedings, these are not going to be open-court proceedings. we're not going to get orders that are, you know, unclassified that can be reported on. so, a lot of what's going to go on now is going to go on secret. and we're not really going to know how much she's leaning on one side or the other. i think we all have a suspicion on which side she'll lean toward. but one of the provisions of cipa that's so important is the government does have the right to appeal. and so, i think we will know if there's an appeal filed. we won't see the substance of it, but we'll see the case in the 11th circuit and have a little bit of a signal there that the government is, you know, bound -- that there was something they needed to take up to a higher court. and we've got to just then hopefully rely on that higher court moving expeditiously, which it did in the previous proceeding. so, unfortunately, this is kind of the hand that jack smith is dealt in that court, and he knew when he brought this in the southern district of florida, there were only a few judges the case could have been assigned to, high odds she would be the one that got it, and she did. >> harry, mary is the most expert, right. i don't disagree with any of her expertise. but trump will tweet about it. if cannon does anything trump doesn't like, we will know. i wonder what you think exists in the system to correct for that. >> yeah. two quick points. the ultimate corrective here would be to move the recuse a judge cannon. mary detailed the sort of first strike against her, and the 11th circuit will see it that way. but the law is pretty tough to recuse someone. if she makes what they view as an elementary legal blunder, i think they'll not only appeal it but couple it with a motion to recuse her. but so far, she's little by little leaning slightly toward trump, not enough for them to go forward with that kind of motion. the second point i want to make for what brandon said, one thing she ignored and was able to because she didn't face the actual schedscheduling, trump, doesn't matter the content of the classified information. the charge is he had it and he shouldn't have had it. so the normal fight you would have in a terrorist case, we need that sentence and this sentence, is really all beside the point. she sets up for him to be able to go with the content. it's particularly opposite of these charges, and it should be an occasion for the united states to maybe take that shot of recusing her. >> i guess it falls to me to tie the political bow around the whole thing. bill barr features prominently in all of the reporting from the last 72 hours of people donald trump will use his next justice department to prosecute and punish. bill barr, obviously, the voice you saw at the beginning of the hour, is saying donald trump is, quote, toast in this case. harry, mary, brandon, jonathan for starting us off on this. mary will stick around. when we come back, some more breaking news to tell you about involving the arrest of a tennessee man who admitted to conspireing with january 6th defendants to kill fbi agents. also ahead, it is veterans day. with it, news that the senate may finally be close to a solution to the dangerous hold 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(gentle music) is it possible my network could take my business - and now i know anything to the next level? it is with comcast business. powering all your devices with gig-speed wifi. and you get fast downloads and uploads. pick it up! pick it up! oh we got this! because it's powered by the next generation 10g network. more speed for your business? it's not just possible. it's happening. get started for $59.99 a month for 12 months. plus, ask how to get an $800 prepaid card with a qualifying internet bundle. comcast business, powering possibilities. breaking news to tell you about out of doj's sprawling investigation into the january 6th rioters and insurrectionsists. our colleague ryan riley is reporting an associate of a january 6th defendant pleaded guilty this wk of charges plotti murder employees of the fbi. austin carter, who was a 26-year-old security officer and a member of the army reserves at the time of his arrest in december of 2022, admitted in a plea agreement that he, quote, unlawfully and knowingly combined, continue spirped, and agreed with his co-defendant, edward kelly, to kill fbi personnel. nbc news justice reporter and author of the new book "sedition hunters: how january 6th broke the justice system," ryan riley joins us. mary is still with us. ryan, it's shocking and galling, stops you in your track, but i guess very much in line with what the insurrectionists envisioned for that day. tell us about this. >> yeah. so, edward kelly was the january 6th defendant at issue here, and he's one of the first people to breach through that door. he was identified by the sweatshirt he wore, burr it -- but it took work to identify who he was. he busted through the window with a wooden plank and kicked ohm that door, allowing rioters to flood in. after his arrest in may of 2022, he actually plotted allegedly the fbi says with a co-conspirator who is charm here, austin carter, who has now pleaded guilty, and they had this list of 37 fbifficials who were involved in this investigation, 37 law enforcement personnel, and had esent when he was first re arrested. the other person they were conspiring with here was the one who sort of flipped and went to the fbi and said, hey, here's what they're plotting up to here, so someone who was a part of this plot did the right thing and went to law enforcement. but at the center of this, it was disturbing, and it reflects this broader attack we've seen against the fbi sprawling from this attack on the capitol on january 6th. >> let me read from your reporting that flushes that out a little more. "carter," the individual who pleaded guilty to these charges, right, "admitted he provided a cooperating witness, quote, with a list of fbi employees that carter received from kelly on or about december 13th and tha carter instructed the cooperating wness to, quote, memorize the fbi employees identified on the list and then burn the list. kelly and carter discussed plans to attack theield office in knoxville, tennessee, and that the purpose of the conspiracy was to, quote, retaliate against government conduct." is there any sense that this investigation and this guilty plea is tied to or in the same spirit of extremism from the other attack against an fbi field office? that one was inspired in the wake of the mar-a-lago search. >> ye. in that case, the person who actually took part in that attack after the mar-a-lago raid, was present on january 6th, i should note. there's new evidence that individual is now deceased, went inside the capitol building, but he was outside that day. so, it certainly shifts into that broader pattern of this extreme targeting of people who are involved in the january 6th investigation and holding people who participated in the attack to account. you see numerous threats flood into the assistant u.s. attorneys who are working on these cases as well as the fbi personnel. in fact, the fbi has now made a practicedacting the names of individual special fbi agents participating in this, which for transparency purposes as a journalist isn't great, but you have to understand given the attack they have suffered as a result of some of this. so, we really don't know, you know, the names of a lot of the people associated with this. they try to keep that out of the public to keep members of the fbi safe. it's really sort of a disturbing pattern we've seen of attacks from the far right against people who are participating in the january 6th investigation, nicolle. >> so, mary, the prosecutions are largely viewed as having the effect of deterrence. it seems that they are also in a couple of instances having the effect of radicalization. how do you deal with that? >> that's the quand have when it comes to extremist violence, because sometimes to call people to account means other people will be more motivated to engage in simrtlya become all the more angry with government conduct, and that is especially the case when you have someone like donald trump, who is constantly stoking that anger. you know, he is saying that he's being political persecuted and that all of the january 6th defendants are the victims of a weaponized justice department and political prosecutions. that has been supported, of course, by the weaponization of the department of justice subcommittee led by jim jordan, representative jim jordan, which conducted hearings essentially to make an argument -- it was a largely fabricated argument -- that the department of justice was being weaponized to go after political -- people with whom they politically disagreed. and, you know, even suggesting -- and it's kind of unbelievable to me given my entire career of working with fbi agents -- suggesting that the fbi was overwhelmingly biased against trump and against the january 6th supporters. the fbi, in my experience, is a pretty conservative organization and certainly might be biased against january 6th rioters because january 6th rioter ace tacked law enforcement and attacked our democracy, but they certainly don't harbor in general a political bias against republicans or in favor of democrats, in my experience. so, but these are the things that, you know, people like mr. kelly and mr. carter, you know, will get anl ta agitated . in this particular case, too, it's concerning because i don't know the details of where mr. kelly got that list. my guess is he got it in discovery in his case, his january 6th case, as ryan was saying. there would normally be an obligation to provide names, and at some point they will be provided in a criminal case. but to think he used that and plotted to kill those people who were going to potentially temp against him, that also had a personal retaliation for, you know, his own case. and these are the kind of things, you know, that can happen in other cases, too, but, again, egged on by the constant demonization of the department of justice and the fbi is exactly what results in these type of conspiracies. >> created from donald trump all day every day. i read his truth socials earlier in the show, targeting a prosecutor in new york. a permission structure is created all day, every day. kinship is produced by the republicans on capitol hill, who are members of a committee called weaponization of the justice department. i mean, it is a staggering, staggering degree of threat against law enforcement that we're grateful that you're on this, ryan, and mary. "sedition hunters: how january 6th broke the justice system," is out now. ahead, tommy tuberville's one-man hold on military promotions may be close to coming to an end. somedays, i cover up because of my moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. now i feel free to bare my skin, thanks to skyrizi. ♪(uplifting music)♪ ♪nothing is everything♪ i'm celebrating my clearer skin... my way. with skyrizi, 3 out of 4 people achieved 90% clearer skin at 4 months. in another study, most people had 90% clearer skin, even at 5 years. and skyrizi is just 4 doses a year, after 2 starter doses. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine, or plan to. thanks to clearer skin with skyrizi - this is my moment. there's nothing on my skin and that means everything! ♪nothing is everything♪ now's the time. ask your doctor about skyrizi, the #1 dermatologist-prescribed biologic in psoriasis. learn how abbvie could help you save. ♪♪ we're not writers, but we help you shape your financial story. ♪♪ we're not an airline, but our network connects global businesses across nearly 160 markets. ♪♪ we're not a startup, but our innovation labs use new technologies to help keep your information secure. ♪♪ we're not architects, but we help build stronger communities. ♪♪ we're not just any bank. we are citi. ♪♪ tide is busting laundry's biggest myth... that cold water can't clean. - food fight!! - food fight!! ♪♪ cold water, on those stains? welp, only one way to find out... tide cleans better in cold than the leading bargain detergent in warm. ♪♪ cold water can't clean tough stains? i'd say that myth is- busted! i always wanted to say that! turn to cold, with tide. today the veterans day, and as we honor our nation's heroes, this veterans day, the acute crisis our armed services, driven by alabama senator's tommy tuberville blockade on military promotions may be nearing an end. after nine long months of playing politically dangerous self-serving ges with our national security fearful for their live, a group of senators has introduced a measure that would allow the nearly 370 promotions that tuberville has single-handedly ruled out voting on once. this would need to be approved by the rules committee, scheduled to vote tuesday, before heading to the senate, where it needs 60 vote stos pass. normally getting 60 votes on anything in this highly divided senate is described as nearly impossible, but tuberville has changed all that. his blockade is even enraging members of his own. policy. here's dan sullivan. >> our general officer corps is say, you know what, i've done 30 years in, seven deployments, i'm going to be held up, i'm getting out. if we start driving our best flag officers out of the military, this is going to be viewed as a national security suicide mission. >> his words, not ours. tuberville, though, seems content with the nine months of a suicide mission he has carried out. he's now trying to further imperil our national security by attempting to hold up the annual national defense authorization act. one member of congress, adam smith, tells politico, "no. screw him. he lost and he's trying to tear down this country because he disagrees with the policy." joining our conversation, retired u.s. marine corps lieutenant colonel, co-founder of operation saving democracy, andy van grack is with us. and host of the independent americans podcast, paul reichhoff is here. thank you for your service to the country. what can be done about someone like tuberville? >> well, i think the senate is going to have to really look at this going forward, because ultimately, we can't have one senator holding up and hurting our military and our national security in such a way. it has been nine months, and senator tuberville has literally weaponized his own position as a united states senator to actively hurt our military, to actively harm our military readiness and hurt military families. and this has gone on, as you said, for nine months. what has allowed this to happen is that the rest of the republican party and his fellow senators have largely been silent all the way up until now, and so, you know, we can't allow this in the future. and the problem is we see more and more these extremist senators who, in the past, would be sidelined. you know, no one would listen to them. but now the republican party is -- has elevated their most ignorant, most arrogant, least qualified, most embarrassing members to be the leaders of their party. and this is the consequence. and it has real national security concerns. >> i said this about vivek ramaswamy, because i was about top say "i had to watch the debate." it was my privilege to watch the debate. he is what he is, but he's also a reflection of the weakness of the rest of the field. if they were stronger, they could shame him. it's a contest, a primary contest. i think the same could be said of tuberville in some ways. it is the sign of the weakness of the senate leaders on the republican side that he still wields his power. in the old days, if they stood with the 83% of americans that we know they don't who think abortion should be legal and allowed and safe and 83% of all or certain instances, or the 100% of americans i would imagine are not for doing things that endanger our military, especially with attacks coming at them due to the events in the middle east, we wouldn't be there. it is about tuberville but also about the weakness of the republicans. i think that's right. it's friday, so welcome to the latest installment of "this week in stupid with tommy tuberville." it's a special veterans day edition. he doesn't stop whether there's war in ukraine or israel. he's political suicide bomber. this is getting attention, promoting a radical agenda at any cost. i think what we've seen over the last couple weeks is encouraging. the only thing outside veterans day that's uniting them is their opposition to tuberville, finally. what they have to do is what we do in the military -- adapt, improvise, and overcome. they have to go around him. schumer is doing that, mcconnell is starting to respond. and tuberville is feel the pressure. he's being moved. they'll have tock more dynamic not just with him but the budget, everything congress gets done. it's time to re-evaluate the rules and execute different strategies and tactics. >> i also think military readiness is misunderstood. being ready means not being vulnerable. he's done more than impede combat readiness. it's now come bat readiness that he damaged. that means, and if people were to sort of grab on to this, that means endangering our military, putting people at risk. who delivers that message? who takes that message to the country, i mean? >> well, i hope democrats do, because i believe the democratic party is the party of national security now, that the republican party is not, and every day we see that more and more. that message of military readiness, we do not have a 7th fleet navy commander right now, nor a 5th fleet. they're in the pacific area where we're trying to deter a more aggressive china, and in the middle east, where there's active war zones going on right now, where our allies and partners are dying. we don't have these commanders. we don't have a head of missile defense command. we don't have, you know, cybercom. this has ripple effects, not only for the operational forces, but to military families. something we don't talk about enough is the family aspect of this. you know, people sacrifice tremendously to serve their countries. they move their families every three years. and to hold this up just hurts these families, and it's a slap in the face, and folks -- i couldn't agree with senator sullivan even more. he's saying, hey, this is a slap in the face to people that served 30-some years in a nonpartisan way and endured tremendous sacrifice on themselves and their families, to treat them this way. most senators know this, but the republican party is being hijacked by these right-wing. ideologues, which senator tuberville is one of them. and they are powerless to fight back against him, unfortunately. >> and that is the scandal, right? that they render themselves powerless against an extremist in their own midst. we'll stay on this story. thanks for joining us today. we'll shift gears a little bit here. we'll go to ukraine, where there's a big announcement to tell you about that will help children displaced by russia us brial war there. stay with us. 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i don't. cascade platinum plus... with double the dawn grease fighting power and double the scrubbing power. for a no rewash clean... and a cabinet ready shine. upgrade to cascade platinum plus. dare to dish differently. it's been more than 20 months since russia began its brutal full-scale war against ukraine, displacing hundreds of thousands of children in the process. our dear friend is in lviv where he opened a new relocation center to help those kids. the doctor says after his six visits to ukraine, the grinding impact on civilians and kids is undeniable, but so is the continued commitment by ukrainians to a total victory against russia and the protection of children from the consequences of living in a country at war, as well as a resilience of the ukrainian children themselves. 94% of them are still attending regular school. in his study but the ukraine children's action project, they found almost three-fourths of ukrainian moms say their children are doing well. that's despite most of them having witnessed war-related events. joining us from ukraine, pediatrician, msnbc public health analyst, and the co-founder of the ukraine children's action project, our friend, dr. erwin renletter. nice to see you. thanks for staying up late. >> hi, nicolle. i'm a night owl. no problem. >> i know you are. tell us what you see and how this trip is different from your last trips. >> well, first of all, we expected, karen and i, when we got here, that people would start to get demoralized because this war keeps grinding on. and, you know, there seems to be some sort of military stalemate, although president zelenskyy doesn't exactly think so, but the war is still ongoing. even outside the severe combat areas in the east and south of ukraine, even here in the western part of ukraine, there's regular attacks with drones and missiles and constant alerts. one of the things that kids are putting up with are a lot of challenges. they go to school. they're in school. they want to go to school. and then there's a siren in the middle of the day and they have to go down to these pretty, you know, difficult environments for some number of hours. the kids are absolutely amazing. this is a -- you're looking at a victoria, 13-year-old girl who lost her dad on the front. and she's become a phenomenal artist. that was a picture of her with her artwork in the lobby of the school she attends. so the spirit here is incredible. look, the families are doing the best they can. we're looking here at a young 18-year-old named oleg who's completely blind. ucap organization played for this sound proof room and special facilities to help children who are visually impaired really deal with learning how to function in society. it's quite remarkable. everything's remarkable. almost every day we're here, we're seeing things that are really impressive in spite of the trauma. and the thing that's so amazing here is these kids for two years prior to the war, this last phase of the war -- russia invaded february 22 -- they missed almost two years of school because of covid, much like everyone else in the world. now comes the war. and kids are missing another year and a half, two years of school. and one of the big challenges is going to be, after this war is over, the recovery of the country. and big jobs ahead. like the remediation of children who need to catch up educationally. but there is no doubt that these people have the ability and wherewithal to do whatever it takes to restore normalcy for the children in ukraine. but the very, very tough situation here, we've seen some really horrendous injuries of children who have been injured on the battlefields in the east. they've been taken for advanced care in other hospitals and we're helping out medically as well as with psychological trauma and educational continuity. >> doctor, when you talk about the resilience of the kids, and i see the study of ukrainian mothers who say 73% of them assess the mental health of their kids as very good, 79% assess the physical health of their kids as very good. what is it that pushes a traumatic event like a war into something that creates resilience, and what is it that pushes them the other direction, and how close are they to that line? >> it's a very interesting question, nicole. because you would have guessed that these kids would not be so resilient at this point, but they are. why? why is because the whole nature of the ukrainian people and their attitude is, first of all, they feel totally committed to beating the russians, getting them out of ukraine no matter the sacrifices. we're talking about a lot of children who are not an traumatized of what they've seen and what they're dealing with, but they've had tremendous loss. they've lost dads and uncles and brothers, et cetera, in the war effort. and they keep plugging along here. i also thought that, at this point, they would be ready to talk about negotiating. but good luck finding any ukrainian -- teenager or adult -- that says, yeah, we should negotiate, enough is enough. no, they still want a victory. by the way, this is something for americans to take note of. this country is fighting for democracy in a beautiful, vibrant society. they're fighting for us. zelenskyy said this, president biden said this, and it's totally true. and it's really rankled me to hear, maybe we should cut back on ukraine, maybe separate the funding for military support for ukraine from what we're going to do in the middle east. we have to be able, you know -- i'm sure paul would agree with this. we have to chew gum and talk and drive a car and, you know, whatever we have to do. this is too important to take the pressure off. media, really, and ultimately the political system. we cannot abandon ukraine. >> the american people see it that way. this is another issue, like gun safety, like abortion, that by and large does not divide the public, it divides democrats and republicans in congress. >> yes. the work the doctor is doing is heroic, and the ukrainian people continue to be heroic. 20 months of this. if americans are tired of this, imagine how ukrainians feel. they're steadfast. the reason they're s.e.a.l. seeing this massive mobilization, i've learned working in mental health, you need connection and community. they've got both. that's what's going to take them through this. what they also need is allies. on our veterans day as we reflect on the heroism of our world war ii veterans especially, we have to of the reflect on the heroism in ukraine and it's not time for us to get weak. we have to keep our eye on ukraine, question can't drop the ball. they need our funding, our continued support, our continued attention. this is their fight but it's our feist fight too and it's the fight of our time. it should unite all americans. either you're with us or against us. that's true in congress as well. >> do you think there's a moment they'll feel shame? or are republicans past shame? >> i don't count on that but there's moments we can come together. you see it on tuberville. you saw it on 9/11. hold the line. i appreciate that the president's been strong on this but he needs everyone to have his back in both parties. zelenskyy's been amazing. >> yeah. >> he's been the defining leader of our time. we have to back him up, be as good as he is. in many ways ukrainians have been more american than americans have been. we need to have their back, as long as it takes till victory. focus on victory, as long as it takes, whatever it takes. >> ukraine children's action project mission i to optimize the health and well-being and education of kids who have been separady war with or without their families and from their homes and their communities. forore about this incredible work, it is founded by dr. irwin redlenner and his remarkable wife karen. go to the website, www.ucap.health. thank you for being there, doctor, thank you for being here. paul, thank you for being here. we'll be right back. right back. e it matters for you. what if we need to see a doctor away from home? 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"the beat" with ari melber starts right now. welcome to "the beat." i am ari melber. this week is end is with the republican party reeling from that revolt against its policies ohio to virginia. voters celebrated another election to punch back against republican policies and really the wider maga brand. a rebuke that came on the eve of one of the party's last chances to try to puby

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