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national security nightmare in the senate -- >> is doing great damage to our military. >> i object. >> a national security suicide mission. >> -- >> -- i object. >> vote individually on this american hero -- >> reserving the right to object. >> tonight, dysfunction in the age of the maga minority, and then, as a massive new air salt on gaza, senator chris murphy on his call for israel to change course. and why was a particularly bad day for the republican front runner as his other adult son snaps on the witness stand, when "all in" starts right now. good evening from new york, i am chris hayes. when the lone solitary republican in the senate is actively undermining the military readiness of the entire country, as the country finds itself in the midst of some of the most intense and acute global crises in recent memory. two wars, one between israel and hamas, and the russian invasion of ukraine. and it is incredibly important and precarious moment, we have an unprecedented absence of the key pentagon officials needed to administer the u.s. armed forces. and that is all thanks to literally one dude. one guy. you probably know, alabama republican senator tommy tuberville. tuberville is using the arcane rules of the senate to single-handedly block about 400 separate nominations to keep military vacancies in a hopeless crusade to get the biden administration to restrict abortion access for service members. today, senate leadership was able to get a few key nominations through, including a second in command to relieve the commandant of the marine corps, who is currently hospitalized after working 18 hour days to cover the extra work left behind by tuberville 's blockade. but getting around tuberville's blocking it is time consuming. it would take months of around the clock voting to circumvent him and confirm all the vacant positions. and to be clear, these are not controversial nominees. it has basically nothing to do with the nominees. each vote, if it eventually makes it to the floor, garners near unanimous support. even tuberville's republican colleagues have lost their patience. last, night we witnessed a remarkable scene on the senate floor, where senate republicans tried to bring over 60 nominations, and senator tuberville individually blocked each and every one. >> i ask unanimous consent, let the senate proceed to executive section for the consideration of the following nomination. executive calendar number 236. lieutenant general gregory -- to be general. >> is there objection? >> none present. >> the senator from alabama? >> i object. >> the objection is heard. >> it went on like that all night for hours. and tuberville's obstinance led to some of the most thrombolytic legislating i've seen in a while. usually, that is a very composed, boring body, the senate. and we will play you some more of that seen on the senate floor in a moment. because, again, it was raw and fascinating. but before we do that, i think it is important to put senator tuberville's located in its proper context. because, you might say to yourself, this guy just one crank. and he is. but in many ways, he is also more than one crank. he is the embodiment of everything that is broken down about american politics in this mulga maga era. the defining feature, the core principle, and maga-ism, is the belief that trump, trump's base, and trump's allies should be in charge, whether or not they have the votes to do so. rule or ruin. it is sheer hostility to democracy, in the belief and rule by a minority faction instead. because they are the ones who should be calling the shots. trump's political ascendancy, of course, started because he won an election with 2 million less votes, thanks to a quirk in the constitution, the electoral college, that allowed him to rule over country despite losing an election in any other sense. the larger republican party apparatus around him, similarly committed to minority rule, where states like wisconsin, north carolina, ohio and others, using their power to gerrymander themselves into a position where they can override the will of their own voters statewide. and once they have accumulated that power, they block every attempt to make it easier to vote, so they can further limit the democratic process. now, of course, the ultimate bloody culmination of the anti democratic republican movement was, of course, the 2020 election and its aftermath. it was no longer an abstraction or a belief. it was put into practice. donald trump were sounding we lost reelection by 7 million votes. he was rejected by the voters. and then he attempted to overturn that loss with the first attempted coup in american history. and since then, it has only gotten worse. the coup mentality has become the dominant ethos of the republican party, a litmus test more stringent than any other. it is what caused the unprecedented leadership crisis. because, when this small faction deposed kevin mccarthy, having extracted a promise from him during the 15 ballots to make him speaker, that one person could bring up the vote to effectively fire him -- that was the same principle play, a tiny minority, a radical faction of the republicans in the house, able to throw the entire chamber into chaos for three weeks out of personal vanity. they did not care that they were just eight of them. no. we should tell everyone what to do. as the daily beast reports today, at least one of the republicans who were able to collectively oust mccarthy just did it for the attention. according to a former staffer for south carolina's nancy mace, quote, she saw the votes on the board and said, if it, i'm just going to vote for, it just so i can go on tv and talk about it. mason showed up in the capitol wearing the scarlet letter a on her shirt which, incidentally, makes you think she actually didn't read the book. that brings us to the u.s. senate, we are the logical conclusion of this anti-democratic principle is playing out before us. in this case, a single u.s. senator. not a faction of eight. a single u.s. senator has brought the personnel, the most powerful military, possibly, in human history, to a grinding halt, so that he individually can impose his particular hard right antiabortion politics to the folks that serve in the armed services. and this is key. this is in spite of the fact that tommy tuberville does not have the votes to do this in the normal means of business. like, if he wants to do this, he could pass a bill. but he can't, because he does not have the votes. so, instead, he's taking the entire pentagon hostage, and we have been waiting for republicans to do something about it, since he is, of course, one of their own. last night, they finally reached their breaking point. >> the hold responsible, effectively, 300 nominated patriots who ought to be pinning on a star or another star right now, hold them professionally responsible for this and, by extension, to undermine the safety and security of the american people during this perilous time just does not make any sense to me. >> as simply a, in my opinion, an abuse of the powers we have a senators, they say if there is something we vehemently disagree with, that we are going to use that power to hold up the promotion of over 350 men and women in our military. >> we are going to look back at this episode ended just be stunned at what a national security suicide mission this became. >> there is a reason this has not been done this way for a couple hundred years. no matter whether you believe it or not, senator tuberville, this is doing great damage to our military. i don't say that lightly. i just hope we don't do this routinely. because if this is the norm, who the hell wants to serve in the military when your promotion can be can based on something you had nothing to do that with? >> i watch hours of that and -- no one is really watching. it was all in c-span. they are genuinely furious. and the question, obviously, on the mind of many republican senators seem to be, how did we get to this point? and i have an answer for those senators. the answer is, we got here because donald trump. donald trump anointed tommy tuberville as his choice in the alabama republican senate primary. that is why tommy tuberville is a u.s. senator, full stop. that is the complete -- i just gave you the complete explanation. he was a retired college football coach. he was handpicked for the role of senator by donald trump, and the rest of the party just followed along. so, it does not matter how few votes you, have as long as you are close to don't, trump and as long as you have his support you can impose your will on the entire country. senator is chris murphy a democrat of connecticut. he serves on the foreign relations committee, and subcommittee on the middle east. he joins me now. i was, i guess, at one level weirdly gratified to see your republican colleagues expressing the level of frustration that, i think, this situation demands. i am not sure what will come of. it but what do you make of what your colleagues did last night? >> yeah. i think you are right to point out the longer story here. republicans are lying in a bed that they made for a long time. the things republicans support don't enjoy majority consensus in this country, whether it be restricting abortion rights, restricting voting rights, giving guns to criminals. and so they are reliant on a host of anti majority in practices, and tricks, in order to get their way. one of them is holding up nominees on the floor of the senate. another is forcing policy into the judicial branch, we are majorities don't hold sway. so, unfortunately, this is an expected result of a republican party that has just gotten used to supporting positions that the majority of americans and support. now, here is the thing. republicans were, i think, right to go to the floor last night and make a steak. i am glad they did. but they will have a chance next week or the week after to do something about. this we can actually change the rules of the senate to disempowered tommy tuberville, into bunch these nominees -- these promotions -- together, 50 at a time, or 100 at the time. if we do, that we can get them all done in a day. and they will have a chance to sort of put their both vote where their mouth is, and get this done rather than just complain about. >> that's a good thing for us to look for. the question of military readiness, we sounds a little bit like jargon, or whatever -- is the u.s. military, of course we already. it's an enormous bureaucracy. but, i am looking at the map and there is rumblings, now, about the war between israel and hamas widening out. we have u.s. service members, obviously, in the region. they can be targets. the u.s. could be drawn into it. how cute a problem is this in a really, like, specific where we are right now way? >> yeah. so, let's be clear about who has to come before the united states senate for a senate approved promotion? it is only the top leaders. >> right. >> so, you are talking about the people who were making decisions about how we defend ourselves. a about the attacks that are being waged against by iranian proxies in the middle east -- the people who are sitting and working with israel on their targeting decisions inside gaza. and when you have 350 to 400 of our most senior military leaders who have not been promoted, when you have 350 to 400 vacancies in our top posts, of course that has an impact. and in the middle east, i think, at last count, it was about 15 major posts vacant in a part of the world that is on the verge of absolute explosion. that is a national security crisis. there is just no doubt about it. and to lindsey graham's point, it also is not an invitation for anybody else to sign up to serve in an all volunteer military. it has an unquestionable impact on recruitment. >> on the question of you just talked about u.s. service members who may be engaged with the israelis on targeting decisions. when the hamas attacks happened on october 7th, quickly thereafter, i think i had you on the program. we talked a bit, and i ask you about civilian casualties in the densely populated area. the basic macro story is clear to everyone. you have airstrikes in a densely populated area, nowhere for refugees to go. and you talked about the sort of tragic inevitability of civilian casualties and they need to minimize them, basically, is what he said to me. today, he releasedteme in which he said the following. the cuent rate of civilian death inside gaza is unacceptable and unsustainable. i urge israel to immediately rensider its approach and shift to a more delibera, proportionate counterterrorism campaign, surgically targeting hamas and islamic jiha leaders and terrorist infrastructure while more highly prioritizing the safety of civilians in accordance with the law of our incomplete armed conflict. why did you issue that statement? >> there's no doubt israel has the right to defend itself, and there's no doubt that is hamas responsible for the civilian casualties because they had themselves, their weapons, the infrastructure inside civilian buildings. mosques, schools, and hospitals. but israel does have a responsibility to weigh the cost to civilians against the ability to target hamas leaders. and i think when you were talking about 1000 palestinian civilians being killed -- 3000 children -- there is no way but to come to the conclusion that the cost to civilians has been too high, and that israel has to reconsider the way in which it balances its desire to go after and get hamas, and the damage being done to civilians. the moral cost is just too high, when 3000 palestinian children have died. but the strategic cost is too high as well. because, as we learned in afghanistan, when you are too casual or too permissive about civilian casualties, that ends up being recruitment material for the very terrorist groups who are fighting. and so, for me, it was important for me to today to say, we have reached a point at which the rate of civilian harm here is too high for israel to sustain, for the world to sustain. and it's time for them to change course and be much more targeted in their decisions about when they go after terrorists in civilian, heavy civilian population centers. >> i want to give you a sort of argument that i have heard israeli officials made, and speaking to things specifically naftali bennett, who is an israeli politician, who is asked by an israeli interview in about these casualties and something along the lines of, i can't believe you are asking me about, this we are fighting nazis here, and i've made similar points made by members of the unity government and netanyahu, and they basically say, this is existential, is akin to the nazis, and no one second guess the allies when they firebombed resident did what they had to do to win the war. we nd ourselves. and how do you question the position we are in. >> yeah. well, listen, i think there is a lot of second-guessing about the decisions that the military's have made in the past. and i referenced the second guessing that we are still undergoing in our operations of afghanistan, where we killed tens of thousands of civilians, and it ended up hurting, us not helping us. i think everyone admits here that there is going to be some level of civilian casualty. this is war. but, when you were talking about 1000 civilians being killed, and 70 united nations aid workers, 3000 children, ultimately, that prices just too high. and i don't think it effectuate themes of the israeli military. i think, in the end, it may end up strengthening hamas, not eliminating them. so, both from a moral standpoint and from a strategic standpoint, i just think it is time for the israelis to rethink the strategy. i don't think they should stop going after hamas. i just think they need to be more targeted in the decisions 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time after eric testified he had never worked on the trump organatn statement of financial condition, quote, end quote, didn't know anything about it until recently, eric acknowledge he was aware of them as far back as 2013. new york times investigative reporter susanne craig was in the courtroom today. she, of course, one of pulitzer prize for that remarkable reporting on donald trump's financial dealings and tax avoidance schemes. and she joins me. now it is wonderful to have you here. don jr., it seemed to me, his testimony -- he seemed to have a fairly plausible case that he did not actually know what was going on. >> you kind of wonder how much he was around. he did sign off on the number of documents that indicated that he knew about the statements of financial condition, and other things, but he's just less involved in the day-to-day operations of the company. but he is a fiduciary, and he -- statements. but you definitely -- eric was the one who is running the company in his father's absence. and that's -- no question about that. and became really clear, really early on in the trial that that was the case in terms of his testimony this morning. >> yeah, let's talk about that. it seems like it did -- my reading of the account is that it did not go great for him. is that a fair top line? >> i think that is a fair top line. yes. >> why? >> it's interesting, because his fingerprints have been so far on a lot of the trial, a lot of people talk about their interactions with him, that they would go for him to advice on this financial issue where this one. and then, today, when it started out, he was saying that he -- it's too much to say that he did not know a statement of financial condition was. but kind of waiting for him to say that. and they played some tape from the deposition that he gave to the attorney general, it was last year. it was there coming out of the trial, and the deposition. and he was very -- just vague about what he knew. he did not know about the statements of financial condition. he did not have anything to do with appraisals. at one point, he says, i pour concrete, i run properties. i don't know about appraisals. and then, very soon, the lawyer from the attorney generals office today, when they played that, and then they spent the whole day talking about appraisals and about what knew eric about appraisals. and it was just question after question. and previously, in the trial, there has been testimony from a realist fait real estate expert, cushman and wakefield, two does appraisals. and he said he had a lot of interactions with eric, and that eric was interested in sort of lofty numbers, and he wanted them raised. and he just went through all of that. but eric, really, he stood his ground and said he still didn't have a lot to do with, it even in the face of all these emails, and these spreadsheets going up on the screen. >> -- >> no, i really don't remember. i don't know. >> so, that was my reading. so, he says he's a concrete guy at one point. he pours concrete in the deposition. >> right. we could have a whole separate exchange about that. and the trumps have not built a full projects in chicago or -- since 2008. >> his stick was basically, i am just a guy with a tool belt. i show up. i get my hands dirty. you guys with your fancy white papers and you spreadsheets, i don't know what you are talking about. >> there have been a few readouts, but, for the most part, they are modern -- they do licensing. >> right. so, you've got him trying to cast this picture of himself is not in the weeds of the finances and certainly not on appraisals and valuations, which is at the knob of this trial. >> especially one property out in westchester called seven springs. it's an estate that donald trump bought in the 1990s and, unsuccessfully for years, trying to make a golf course out there. and it failed. and they still have this a state. and eric is very familiar with. it he spent a lot of time there as a kid. he essentially runs, it and he oversees it now the trump organization. and that was sort of the property that the attorney general was zeroing in on. because there are some problematic appraisals that have come out of that that they are interested in as part of this case. >> there was also -- i mean, he got sort of testy at certain points in the testimony today, eric did, right? there was also this crazy exchange toward the end of the day. there is this bizarre running theme here. we have seen multiple sanctions against donald trump for targeting the clerk of the court, who has been the subject of complaints of the -- and social media post by the ex president. towards the end of the, day judge arthur engoron got in an angry exchange with -- guys kise -- kise countered, i'm not a misogynists, that he felt he was fighting to adversaries, that the judge got back, i have an absolute unfettered right to get advice from my principal law clerk. at one point after kise complained about the -- passing notes, the judge got so mad -- >> he pounded the table. this has been going on for weeks now. it started out -- the law clerk, just to paint a picture, because a lot of people don't quite understand how she fits into it. she sit next to him on the bench. and they can for a lot. it is not unusual in this circumstance. the person who would be there. >> she says clark, and she's helping him manage the trial. >> right, right. yeah. that's a great way to put. it >> yeah. >> and it started with this. she had a social media and instagram account, and she had a picture of her and chuck schumer on it. and trump had latched onto that weeks ago and had -- said she is chuck schumer's girlfriend. and all hell broke loose. >> that is not true. just for the record. >> definitely not. and that is where the first gag order resulted. and then there was -- then they were supposed to take the social media post down -- >> and they didn't. >> in one instance. >> on the website. >> sometimes i come in in the morning, and one morning before court started -- donald trump, one of his main lawyers in the court, she got up and asked to address the court, and it's a very sensitive issue, and she then mentioned she used to be a law clerk. and she said that she had to be so respectful in court, and she was asking that the law clerk that, the judge tell his law clerk to stop rolling her eyes in court. this has been going on. and it may be a fair point and it's happening, these complaints have just been piling up. and it just exploded today. >> susanne craig of the new york times, thank you so much for joining. us >> thank you. appreciate it. >> just before show tonight, we got some breaking news out of another manhattan courtroom. a jury found former cryptocurrency mogul's and bankman-fried guilty on all seven counts against him. prosecutors allege the 31-year-old founder of the ftx exchange used the company has basically a personal piggy bank and built a, quote, pyramid of deceit. and then, of course, ftx collapsed and bankman-fried was charged with stealing tens of balloons of dollars from his customers. after a months long trial, the jury deliberated for just four and a half hours before convicting him on charges of fraud and conspiracy. thank man free now faces more than 100 years in prison. he's also facing another trial on charges including bribing foreign officials, which is scheduled to begin march. stephanie ruhle is -- msnbc, as well as msnbc senior business analyst, and she joins me now. i've got to say, for a relatively complicated fraud white-collar case where you are looking at numbers and books, four and a half -- this is stunning, that it was so quick. and it speaks to the fact that the government rolled up, they took his closest confidants, his ex girlfriend who worked for, and the top lieutenants in his company. they all cooperated with the government. and they turned on him, and what was stunning in the last week which was sand -- who is not necessarily the best communicator, doesn't present well, he chose to take the stand. and what did the prosecution? do hit him right between the eyes, they showed up with receipts. they used his words, and his own lieutenants proven said no sir, this is what you did. and that is sort of what people are saying this is almost the ghost of trump. right when you think about all the people that the government is rolling up against trump right now, and could they turned him and say no sir, these are your words these are the documents. and so the prosecution showed up with the receipts, and in four hours and guilty on everything, that's stunning. >> yeah and i think part of that there are two things right, one is the hubris of testifying yourself usually don't do that but the certain idea if i can talk my way out of, it which >> but that's how he's always seen himself >> even through this whole thing, he's been talk to reporters, even giving interviews saying bro. >> during this he's taking phone calls from months and months ago, i obviously wanted interview i would talk to this man on the phone thinking i can't believe. this but he has always felt like this business, this corporate world, i know better. which is the same thing he felt about politics at every other. >> he viewed -- you and me, useless. >> well i mean, i imagine there were some on the. jury i mean, part of the thing to about this case as surprising as it is for a sort of complex case like this. again, it's not that complex but to come down so click quickly is the core of the crime was not -- >> okay you just hit everything because people from the outset are like oh crypto i don't get it this isn't about crypto, this is about stealing. it is about saying oh i am losing money over, here and that all of these customer funds -- i'm going to remove and stick it over to -- the big thing that >> sandbank been fraught right here. right, this isn't about how crypto works in the market, we're gonna going. two >> yes if you are banker that had a problem with sports and was. and then just decided okay there's a few thousand dollars sitting in your account >> maybe he could pay off the guy we all understand, like we absolutely can't do that that is essentially the case >> against him >> i'm going to defend him for one woman, one of the reasons he did believe his own hype, it's because everyone else. did okay, the biggest names in finance >> remember that >> it was the most insane thing i've ever seen. it was the f t exciple. and i don't just mean tom brady and gisele you. at some of the biggest investors, the most sophisticated investors and wall street, that can make huge fees investigating in the sky. last year it was just a year ago plus a few weeks, he spoke at a huge finance in new york, everybody rolled up their wearing suits. that guy showed up in his dungeons and dragons look in the hair, and the place of worship the ground he walked. and so he believes his own hype but so did everyone else, and we shouldn't forget that. >> actually in defense of the dungeon dragons, i respect a man that shows up like that. but he is now, it's really. while i mean talk about it's almost a cliché to talk about a meteoric rise and fall, which is a thing that we do in our line of work. but wow, a meteoric rise. i mean the guy went from some random -- to one of the richest people in the world that may be worth like 30 billion dollars. >> to now and that whole thing happened over the course of four or five years >> i thought he was going to change the world and the way the world operated, change politics. >> he was intervening in democratic primaries, he was giving mitch mcconnell money >> okay right there seriously in some media ran out, people saying don't forget sandbanks and free deeply tied to the democratic party. and, republicans. >> you interviewed michael lewis. who just wrote a massive book on sam bankman-fried a few weeks. go and, michael lewis was with sam as sam was headed to washington, for dinner with mitch mcconnell. according to michael's, book where he was going to potentially help mitch. according to michael, he was assessing how much money would sam have to pay trump a, to not run. again >> he had -- a >> and remember michael wrote the book saying, this is a letter to the jury that they will decide. >> will guess what, they decide. >> i don't know if they read the -- book's >> always a pleasure, thank you. >> we'll be right back. we'll be right back this is a hot flash. but this is a not flash. ♪ i got a good feeling ♪ there's big news for women going through menopause. veozah - a prescription treatment for moderate to severe vasomotor symptoms - the medical name for hot flashes and night sweats. with hormone-free veozah, you can have fewer hot flashes, and more not flashes. veozah is proven to reduce the number and severity of hot flashes, day and night. for some women, it can start working in as early as one week. don't use veozah if you have 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[laughter] >> she is very timid and an introverted person. very caring person, she is a physical therapists, so she likes to take care, people mostly elderly people, this is her expertise. and, she is a very family oriented person. so, she mostly like our own little circle of family. we have two other little siblings, a younger brother and a younger sister. her mother passed away ten months ago from cancer, and -- really held our family together, making sure that we are still one unit, to gather. and we just finished three weeks trip with her and her family to south africa. we came back a day before it happened. >> had she recently moved out of the, kibbutz and was back visiting family? >> true, they -- and she was not willing to tolerate what we called the routine of we won -- >> and, she thought, it's unacceptable to leave like this. and they left, just a few weeks before. >> how did, how is it first communicated to you and your family that the israeli government believed she had been taken hostage? >> well, it doesn't work exactly like this. what happened is that we got most of the information, we found out that she is missing, that she has been taken out of the home, due to information that we got through other family members. >> so you werdoing the information, rather than the other way around. >> for example, it's hard to say but, we have seen video of her mother, being taken out of the house. so we know that they have been taken. and a few days, later we saw another video of -- being killed, at the end of the street of the house. on the ground, in her own pool of blood. it is horrible. and, after we learned the story from -- , after he had been rescued and getting into israeli troops, i have been through the whole week, in -- with our, military trying to make them go in search for. so every day i was there for morning tonight, going with them, and trying to make them search, saw the information we, have all the evidence we, have i have it firsthand. and we gave it to the government, for them to conclude. >> what has the communication. obviously, it must just be unbearable to not know where she is, and if she is safe. and there are other families in this same situation. >> of course, too many families. >> talking with each other. what is the government, what are they saying to you about what is being done about the prospects of her being released? when you saw some of the hostages release, how did that hit you? >> well, a lot of questions. >> yeah, sorry. >> i will start with the last. one i think that when i saw other hostages being released, i was very happy for them. because i think it's the most happy moment, probably in -- >> and, i was also happy to see that it is possible, okay. because until it happen, we did know if there was a chance that it could be done. >> and we know right now that is possible. to >> it's a proof of concept, in other words. >> yes, yes. >> also we saw that it is possible to rescue some of the people. i guess so, it is a positive note. at the same time, i don't read too much into it, because hamas is a very manipulative, dangerous, maniac organization. so, the fact that they are being treated a certain way, doesn't mean almost anything to me about how my sister is being treated. she might be tortured, or god forbid right every day. she might be in a very isolated place, different. >> we cannot read too much into it. and so, i am trying to stay pretty balanced with all the manipulation that hamas is trying to make us go through. but basically, my sister also, is still under a continuous terrorist attack, so she is under physical terror attack, but we are under a mental and psychological mental attack that has not been stopped, since until today. >> so this is how i experienced this -- regarding the way that we communicate with the israeli authorities. they don't share a lot of information with. us and i think that maybe it is wise. i think you might be surprised, because i believe in our forces, and i believe that they are doing their utmost best. so, if they are doing that, i think it is better that they will not, tell me so i will not be able to tell you on tv. >> sure, of course. >> what is happening. but we do get some feedback, that they are investing a lot intelligence, and also in the way that they operate and make their military decisions, that we conclude a top priority, the hostages. which is a very big concern, either the hostages are -- >> and so we believe they are. >> you do. >> yes. and i see a very central role, also to the u.s. government, also the german government, -- she is also a dual citizen, she is also german. and so we are spending much time in germany. and so we see a lot of commitments from those countries, and other western countries. and i think it's vital, because a basic duty of all of us to bring them back home. because this is not something that we can allow to happen in the world. this new standard of terrorism, of kidnapping so many people. if that will be tolerated by the west, not just by us as israeli's rights, the whole west. that will be a disaster. >> yes. >> >> your -- -- friend the daughter, how is her daughter doing? >> so initially, it was hard, mostly at nights for -- but she is very, she is super strong. and, resourceful. -- it is acting amazingly, she is cooperative, she is happy, she is nice. and i think the reason for that is because she is a. where she knows everything that happened. >> of course. >> but she is aware that we are all doing our utmost efforts. and she is hopeful, she has trust in us. and, i think that we have to deliver. so we are doing whatever we can do, and we want everybody to share this hope with us, the hope -- that and everyone has, to imagine what -- imagined. it is that her and her mother are being reunited. so >> i hope deeply for that. i know everyone. -- does >> thank you so much for -- >> thank, you. >> we come back, the sheer scale of the destruction in gaza, clearly visible from space. that's next. that's next. when you have chronic kidney disease... ...there are places you'd like to be. like here. and here. not so much here. farxiga reduces the risk of kidney failure which can lead to dialysis. ♪far-xi-ga♪ farxiga can cause serious side effects, including ketoacidosis that may be fatal, dehydration, urinary tract or genital yeast infections, and low blood sugar. a rare, life-threatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. stop taking farxiga and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of this infection, an allergic reaction, or ketoacidosis. when you have chronic kidney disease, it's time to ask your doctor for farxiga. because there are places you want to be. if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. ♪far-xi-ga♪ rsv can severely affect the lungs and lower airways. but i'm protected with arexvy. arexvy is a vaccine used to prevent lower respiratory disease from rsv in people 60 years and older. rsv can be serious for those over 60, including those with asthma, diabetes, copd, and certain other conditions. but i'm protected. arexvy is proven to be over 82% effective in preventing lower respiratory disease from rsv and over 94% effective in those with these health conditions. arexvy does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients. those with weakened immune systems may have a lower response to the vaccine. the most common side effects are injection site pain, fatigue, muscle pain, headache, and joint pain. i chose arexvy. rsv? make it arexvy. the chase ink business premier card is made for people like sam, who make- everyday products, designed smarter. like a smart coffee grinder, that orders fresh beans for you. oh, genius! for more breakthroughs like that- i need a breakthrough card. like ours! with 2.5% cash back on purchases of $5,000 or more. plus unlimited 2% cash back on all other purchases. and with greater spending potential, sam can keep making smart ideas- a brilliant reality! the ink business premier card from chase for business. make more of what's yours. as some dual nationals, foreign nationals, and folks who are gravely ill beget to get get of gaza as the first inches the blockade and bombardment d, we're getting a look at the scope of the destruction here. this is a satellite picture showing part of the gop law refugee camp, justnorth of gaza city on tuesday. it is a neighborhood of structures. it is one of the most densely populated places on earth. just picture was taken on octo31st. this is what that same neighborhood looked like on -- thatone day later, that's after israeli military confirmed targeting of -- local hospital says -- over 100,000 palestinians live in jabalia. this is what it looked like last year, as you get ready to celebrate the holiday, beginning to shop for food, treats, and other goods, we'll children play to the marketplace. these are the pieces on the ground after the airstrike on tuesday, apartment buildings leveled, hundreds of people injured, and a massive crater left behind, when the bombs hit. now, it's hard to find a proper precedent or analog for what we're seeing in gaza, this kind of destruction, of a military campaign in such dense of an area where people cannot flee. the closest there is, maybe the battle for muscle, iraq, after it was taken over for i.s.i.s.. so here's a satellite image from oso, it is direct second biggest city, and this is in this -- and this is the exact same location, two years later, look at that, after i.c.e.'s had been routed. before i.s.i.s., -- was a city of well over 1 million people, they had homes, and they worked, and they ran errands, they shopped, in the race to children like you or i. after the ice's takeover, iraqi coalition forces launched a nine-month military campaign to take back the city of i.s.i.s., who really would let people leave. and so they were sort of trapped there and much -- of as you can see, was largely reduced to rubble. the associated press says close to 10,000 civilians were killed during that military campaign. right now, israel's military campaign in gaza appears to be on pace to far exceed that. the gaza health ministry says 9000 people have been killed, in just over three weeks. we cannot independently verify that number, but those suck let images paint a picture of enormous devastation. sara yeager is the washington director of human rights watch, she recently wrote about what israel could learn from america's counterterrorism missteps, and she joins me now. sarah, if i understand correctly, you are sort of intimately involved with the mosel campaign. and the reason i think of -- is because of usually civilians flee war zone when there is a big battle. this happened with fallujah, de sapin other places and it's horrible and beauty rule. but it is better than being in the way of the bombs. was mosil an example where they couldn't really do that. what does that mean for the warmest toll on civilians, and are the calculations of the u.s., and the collision of what unacceptable risk to civilians was? >> sure. hi chris, thanks for having me. so, i was in mosil two weeks before the u.s. invasion, and i was looking specifically at this issue. how u.s. and iraqi forces deal with an urban environment, in which it was densely populated, and it wanted to take out i.s.i.s., and that was an extremely complicated equation. unfortunately, i think that the u.s. and iraqi forces didn't do a very good job of planning. and when you look at those pictures of mosul today, it has taken many billions of dollars to rebuild, it just to where it is. and what we're seeing gaza is greater then >> tell me more about that because i'm going to benchmark here we have -- journalists inside -- with our msnbc crews, to get, -- what do you mean by -- >> i -- we have seen 9000 people killed in just three weeks of this operation in gaza. entire city blocks destroyed. and, a lot of people, you said that in conflict, people try to flee. that cannot flee gaza, there is nowhere to go. and you know, a lot of people actually don't want to, this is their home. they are disabled, they are elderly, they have children, they are making these horrible choices about whether to break up their families to see if some can get to the south. >> there is, there is a legal part of this. which is, let's say a u.s., that u.s. intelligence and has acquired intelligence that there is an ices commander, they high value license commander's, in 67 fighters, in a building. and there isn't a problem, building on there is 100 civilians in there. there is someone and some process right, whereby a decision is made. and it is a very grim calculation, but somewhere and, some lawyers are involve saying like, is that unacceptable military target, right? >> so for the united states, yes, there are a lot of lawyers involved. i believe it is the same thing for israeli defense forces. i was at the pentagon serving as a senior adviser to the chairman of the joint chiefs, and he actually commissioned a study on this very question in mosul. and you know, proportionality is what it is called, under inter international law. basically, here's your military target, here are your civilians. there are supposed to be proportion to each other. civilians deserve protection, and cannot be, again, orders of magnitude harmed, compared to the military targets. and i think in this kind of environment, what i keep hearing are sort of excuses, for a different proportionality calculus. you know, this is a tough environment, it is an urban environment, hamas is in and among civilians. that factually is not an excuse for a different calculus, it actually means that the military needs to work harder. none of their protection obligations go away. >> i think this is a really important point. i mean, because i don't know anything independently of what various parties say. but let's say it were the case that there was a hamas commander in a system of tunnels underneath, and the commander was even involved in october 7th. in between the missile and the tunnel is a building full of people. like, i guess the question is, is it okay to hit them? right, that's sort of what is being asked right now. >> this is the really tough calculus in international law. it is very subjective. but you know, there is the legal answer, and then there is also what i assumed u.s. advisers are telling the israelis, which is that there is also this piece of the anger, that they have created around the world by a devastating entire city blocks of residences, and hitting refugee camps. so, we're going to get in, there we're going to do the investigations, we are going to make our own assessments of that proportionality. but israel really needs to really focus on its obligations, to protect civilians. >> all right sarah yeager, who is a human rights watch, and was in mossoul, right before that campaign, when the most brutal battles in recent memory's, and your expertise was very, very welcome tonight. thank you so much for taking the time. >> thank you. >> that is all it on this thursday, alex wagner fights are trying to look -- ying to look - your military conflicts in two major parts of the world. and the desire to actually secure funding for the conflicts involving israel, and ukraine was supposed to be, it was supposed to be the reason that moderate republicans voted

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