To go back and, i mean, i dont know. A refresher on jim jordans Insurrection Ties as he seeks the house gavel, and why its a blinking red light for the american experiment. If you want to know what it looks like when democracy is in trouble, this is what it looks like. Plus, why the trump request to dismiss his coup charges may be destined for the Supreme Court. And the chilling echoes of authoritarians passed, as a republican front runner warns of immigrants poisoning american blood, when all in starts, right now. Good evening from new york. Im chris hayes. The last time that donald trump wanted to go to the capitol it was to lead a violent coup against the duly elected american government. You remember this is when he supposedly had a tantrum in the president ial limousine. He wanted to go so badly that he got into a physical altercation with the Secret Service over it, according to testimony before the january Six Committee. The Secret Service understood that sending the president to lead an armed riot would present something of a safety concern. But in some ways more importantly i think they also understood that they could end up in a situation where they were essentially drafted into service as the armed Praetorian Guard of the wouldbe coup, entering the capitol with a duty to protect the president in defiance of the Armed Police Officers who were defending it. Gun against gun, creating a situation of unprecedented constitutional peril. Thankfully, that did not happen. The Secret Service held their ground. They didnt let him go. But now donald trump wants to go to the capitol again to continue the project he started on january 6th, ending American Democracy as we know it. Part of that includes undermining the Department Of Justice investigation into him, their attempt to hold him accountable to law so he does not have to go to prison. In fact today he filed a motion to dismiss the january six case out right against him, citing president ial immunity. He is hoping this motion will make its way to the 63 Supreme Court that he appointed one third of and that they will find a way to let him off the hook, at the very least delay things until after the election. That is the play here. But if that doesnt work, donald trump is publicly floating he could be the next Speaker Of The House, after republicans fired the last guy for the first time in american history. A lot of people have been asking me to be speaker. All i can say is, look at what the country has would you take the job . A lot of people have asked me about it. I would help them in the process. But there are people in Republican Party that can agree job is speaker. A few hours ago trump told fox news, quote, they have asked me if i would take it first short period of time for the party, until they come to a colusion. Im not doing it because i want toyeah, sure, i will do it if nessary, should they not be able to make their decision. I dont know, what does that mean . Look, it goes without saying, i think, the donald trump as Speaker Of The House, or second in line to the presidency, would be bad for everyone, probably disastrous. It would be bad for the country, bad for American Democracy and i think outright dangerous. Becoming speaker would not absolve trump of his criminal liability, although i think he might have some notion it will, so i sincerely hope it does not happen. The fundamental problem of course is that trump, or someone like him, is what the Republican Base has demanded. To some extent, marco voters want their party to be on ungovernable. A lot of this has been stoked by cynical voices in the party in the rightwing media. To be fair, people that are making a lot of money off of this, but if you want to perfect illustration of this problem, which is what would happen if trump were to become speaker . The most basic level it appears that they would have to change the actual house rules, because as of now, the house rules quite sensibly say that someone who has been indicted for felony that carries more than two years in prison cannot serve in leadership. The problem is, many folks in the Maga Movement won trump for speaker, not in spite of his indictments but because of it, because trump matters to them inasmuch as he can vandalize, desecrate and destroy the institutions they have come to despise. The best we can do right now is how President Trump on an interim basis, return to the nations capitol, walk in to the sanctuary of nancy pelosi. Think about it for a second. How would the established order except that . Thats what he is good for you, folks. That dude. In his tshirts and his four hour live stream every day, awaiting possibly going to prison. Remember, there are people that invaded the capitol and actually devastated in the halls . Basically thats the Selling Point here. Is that a vision of what a good life would look like, a good society, Good Government . Thats the vision. Thats it. Thats what they got. There not trying to hide their motivations here. Theres a new poll out today that provides an incredible case study, and a study in contrast, with the vision that steve bannon articulated in the Democratic Party, and among the base approach the same issue. So as you have no doubt heard, and has been covered on this program and many others on this network, bob menendez of new jersey was indicted on federal charges last night. He is good accused of taking bribes to abuse his position as chair of the Senate ForeignRelations Committee and provide special favors to government. Senator menendez has denied the charges. He says he will vigorously mount a defence. But we should note, last time he was indicted by the Department Of Justice they did fail to secure a conviction. So thats a good the internet. And of course of the senator is do, the Presumption Of Innocence of law, like all citizens protected by the constitution. But the Presumption Of Innocence doesnt provide magical immunity of in the court of public opinion. People are allowed to form opinions about you especially if you are sitting politicians. You cant say a well due process. You can see that in the way that the Democratic Party has responded to that damning indictment, as two senators, Democratic Senators have called on menendez to resign. States democratic governor has also said that menendez has to go. And then today we got this, which is to, me fascinating. It says a lot. We have the first look at what democratic primary voters think. Basically the Democratic Base. Guess what . Unlike in the Republican Party, the indictment has not helped robert menendez. In fact, the indictment has done what you would expect. Menendez is losing badly. He is polling at 5 . Thats the sitting incumbent democratic senator. Hes polling at 5 in the three way race. Andy kim who has thrown his hat in the ring is democratic congressman in new jersey has 42 . I again, dense just based on the news. Sitting senator, indictment, Democratic Party leadership says the guys gotta go, thats how Democratic Base voters respond. But thats just one of the two gravitational fields that exist in the physics of american politics. There are two Different Gravitational fields that exist. There is one where you get indicted and everything pulls towards your resignation. Your party calls for you to resign, voters abandon you, and theres another. Getting indicted on anyone charges in four jurisdictions, which pushes you toward leadership and popularity. Poll numbers go up. Not only that but in addition to supporting for president , the party encourages you to run for House Of Representatives in the interim. Run the House Of Representatives. And all of this, ultimately, inference of the vile political project you began when you tried to overthrow American Democracy. Claire mccaskill is a former democratic senator in missouri now the cohost of the msnbc podcast how to win 2024, and she joins me now. In any moment of the last eight years with some little piece of data in the world are just makes me feel like im standing on earth, i feel this sense of brief relief. And when i saw the polling of menendez, it was like, again, i dont know if hes guilty. I cant say if theyre gonna prove this case. But yeah, the indictment was, it looked really bad. Democratic leadership has said this guy is a problem. The voters are like, yeah, i dont like this. That, to me, was like, right, this is the way it can work and does work in one portion of american politics. This is the way it is supposed to work. In one party you have people who warned the norms of ethical behavior and the respect for the rule of law. And frankly, the sense that whether he did something illegal or not, what is in that indictment makes it an unattractive to vote for as United States senator. I mean thats the essence here. Thats the essence. And on the other hand, youve got a guy indicted, as you say, 91 felony counts, and his party wants to bring him back to the capitol and have him in charge. Of the only part of judge government taking control. Its a breaking glass moment because if there arent enough republicans that stand up and say, come on folks, really . Are we really going to go down all those guys that one and women that one in biden districts, theyre done. They are down. Hakeem jeffries will be the new Speaker Of The House in january of 2025. End of discussion. Talk about how to win 2024, let donald trump back in the capitol. Yes. I do agree with, you always hedge with the fact the features and certain lots of crazy stuff has happened in the time that i have been hosting this show but yes. My next question to you wise, when you think about the vote on the motion to vacate, all republicans are mad because it was eight votes. Tiny little sliver of the caucus. I understand why they are mad. That annoying. When eight of your colleagues blow this thing up. The question is, the math works the same way in reverse. The speaker needs to get to 17 or 2 18 depending on, i think there are a few vacancies. There are eight members in the house caucus who should be able to say no way. No. Were not voting for donald trump for speaker. Theyve got the same Power Leverage in the situation. Its a question of whether they are too cowardly to exercise it if it comes to that. I want to believe that this is just him looking for another moment and i think it probably is. But the fact that they think its a good idea to tout it, i believe, by allowed the majority of them will be horrified of this idea. I agree. I think everybody ought to remember, gaetzs deal was about the deficit. They control government first two years of trumps president ial term. They controlled everything. They didnt do anything on deficit. And that was precovid. They did nothing on the deficit. They did nothing to bring down spending. He believed and running up the debt. He didnt do anything to secure the southern border. Its so as if this guy was a strong leader that he just had levers of power he could do, the crazy caucus, is that would be one thing, but we know he cant. He didnt. Even when they controlled all of government. So, i know its a normal analysis, not a crazy town analysis, but would help these guys to look back and see what trump actually did when he was president. Forget all the lying. Just how bad he wasnt delivering on anything they believed in. Yeah. And again, ultimately this is what bannon said. That is the impulse. There is a cult of personality and also the middle finger. Basically. Were going to come in and tear the place up and, to your point about what we said about, it i totally agree, but i have a little this queasy feeling that its got one of these enertial things, someone sort of floated the idea and then they planted it and then no one in this party has ever shown a unified ability to give a hard now. And again, so its madness to contemplate, but until youve got eight declared no votes, or seven, whatever it takes in the republican caucus, you can shut the door, and they have never done that in the time he has been around. No, what they have done is highland ridgeesques and told people like me how much they hate donald trump. There are those people there. The question is, what will it take them to get out from under their desks . In the fetal position, where theyre just make him go away make him go away, hes awful, hes horrible. Hopefully there will be eight of them that will step up. I kind of believe there will be because at least there are eight of them that can ever get reelected if they do this. Yes. You would think, although, again, the logic of Self Preservation is weird. As one of the strangest things about this whole thing. The kind of polisci 101, you as an elected politician, having had a very successful career, you are a reelection seeker, right . A rational agent trying to find the aids voter, trying to get reelected, and that logic has, should have been more constraining than it has been so far. We will see what happens if and when this comes next week. Claire mccaskill, always good to talk to you. Thank you. Thank you, chris. So, again, to declare the point, i tend to think its its one of these who knows . So if that is Speaker Of The House is not donald trump, and again, i think it likely will not be. If i had to bet, i would bet against it. There are two official declared candidates, the first is congressman steve scalise, and mccarthy lieutenant who wants to clear himself, quote, david duke without the baggage, thats an actual quote, when he was coming up in louisiana politics. He was declaring that is a Selling Point, just for context. And theres this gentleman, that would be ohio congressman jim jeffries. Sorry, jim jordan. [laughter] jim jordan, you probably recognize him. He spent a lot of time on television. Hes been doing the rounds trying to sell himself as a serious legislator and peacemaker, as if we have all not been watching his antics for the last five years. Heres the thing. The line between that gentlemen, jim jordan, and matt gaetz, is really thin. Like, its the width of a coat suit jacket. And it is worth noting that jordan appears to be as implicated in the coup plot, again, the original sin here, the crime of the century, as it were, he is as implicated as almost any other legislator. Scott perry may be close. Remember, jim jordan was subpoenaed by the january Six Committee and he just ignored it. A subpoena from the House Of Representatives, which he would be running, where you do when speaker. So before hes put in charge of congress, shouldnt have a better answer for what his role was on the day the capitol was overrun by a violent mob . I, i, im kind in amazed. I talked to the president last. Week on january six, did you speak with him before during or after the capitol was attacked. I would have to go i spoke with him that day after i think after. I dont know if i spoke with him in the morning. I just dont know. I would have to go back and, i mean, i dont know about that, when this conversation happened, but all i know is i spoke to him all the time. By the way, we did not speed up that tape to make him sound extra untrustworthy. Jim jordan, Like Mccarthy and scalise, is one of the lawmakers who, after fleeing the violence sacking of the capitol, for their own personal safety were escorted away. And after the capitol have been cleared, they returned to the chamber, whereupon they voted in favor of the coup. They voted with the mob. So, yeah, jim jordan is not donald trump, but pretty close. Congresswoman dean is a democrat of pennsylvania, impeachment manager for serves on judiciary committee, chaired by congressman jordan, and she joins me now. Let me say first, congresswoman, your democrat, jim jordan is a republican, youre gonna vote for hakim jeffries, not jim jordan. But ive covered Congress Long enough that members will often say, that person, i have a good working relationship, we worked on legislation before, we dont see eye to eye. Where are you on jim jordan as possible speaker . I am pleased to be with you and always glad to hear from Claire Mccaskill and her rational wisdom and experience. Thanks for having me. That clip you just showed of mr. Jordan stammering to come up with his memory, could he have spoken to the president during the rare insurrection at capitol the where we all ran for allies, most of us with gas masks . I remember who i called. It was my family, my children, my husband, and you would remember as you are fleeing for your life whether or not you spoke to your good friend the president Who Incited Americans to come attack americans. So that tells you everything you need to know about mr. Jordan. He is incredible, he has been sadly, i think, very glib in other places when he is viewing disinformation, lies, in support of his own power, his own search for power, in fealty to this extraordinarily grotesquely failed former president , and so i presume that his bid for speaker is doomed. I cannot see him getting 218 votes, or whatever will be required and heres why. I served with him on the judiciary committee. I watched him in the minority. He was ineffective. I worried as he came into the chairmanship judiciary, would he be much more effective . He has been feckless. He has been spinning and fretting and leaving the room a lot. You see him in the Committee Hearing after markup, and he has been ineffective. I dont see him succeeding in this run for speaker. Thats interesting. I always sort of, that is very interesting you say that. You just dont think he has the relationships, the juice. He is a fox news mainstay, so when you put together numbers it was shocking. Hes doing almost 100 hits a year. Basically fulltime. So hes doing that part of the job. But obviously these votes are about the relationships you have with your fellow legislatures and you are saying this guy just doesnt have it. He doesnt. In some ways i think about what happened to mr. Mccarthy. Mr. Mccarthy failed for a number of reasons. He was a traitor to the truth. He could not tell the truth. He did it in a more pleasant way, i would say, and mr. Jordan. He was a danger to our institution of the house. You saw that in what he gave away and what his crazy ruled that a Single Member could call the question to vacate the chair and obviously did that. First time in history. But ultimately he was a danger to our democracy. Mr. Jordan is the same exact thing in a different persona, less the suit coat and in and out running in and out. He has the same problem. He lacks credibility. He doesnt know or speak the truth. So he will never lead us. And i dont believe he will garner, even if he goes 15 or 16 votes, i dont believe he will garner the votes to become speaker. Ultimately, and this is a point that we have returned to again and again, but its worth repeating. Ive talked to other members of your conference. Theres a structural problem here. First of all, Legislative Business has to be done in 45 days and there is no consensus within their caucus. They dont want to adhere to a deal that has already been struck. Jordan today during a call with the, quote, main street caucus, promised to protect moderates, vowed not to put them in tough positions, pitched himself as a team player, bringing the factors of the party together. But again and again thats a big promise, but no one has been able to deliver on it youve got ten or 15 members who, you know, i genuinely imperil right now. And then one seems to be listening to them. Someone counterintuitively. Anybody who has spent any time working with mr. Jordan knows that he cannot be trusted. He is answering into one man, mr. Trump. And im pleased that you talk to voters the absurdity of mr. Trump returning to the capitol. I hope you are right. I hope Senator Mccaskill is right. That it is an absurdity. But we must guard against. It never did we think that mr. Trump would have sent his minions, his american citizens in search of attacking the institution of democracy. I do want to Say Something in contrast, and i hope you saw it this week. I couldnt be prouder to be a part of the democratic caucus. You saw us unified on the floor, in our committee work, and everywhere else, but on the floor, unified. And i talked to Hakeem Jeffries yesterday. I said hakeem, our unity has never been stronger in the five years ive been here. And i really thought about, what is that glue . And it is something he said in caucus, we are. Say we have a unity of purpose. Our purpose is our glue. It holds us together. We care about the american people. We care about doing better for the american people. Thats why we passed a cr. They needed us. Yes, you and your caucus have a political project that youre pursuing, and it has a coherent vision, whether people like it or not, but it is a project. And i dont think theres congresswoman madeleine dean, thank you very much. Good to be with you. Coming up, donald trump shoots a shot. Putting his legal future in the hands of the people he put in the Supreme Court. This is a big one. Well talk about it next. Hi, im stacey, and ive lost 60 pounds on golo. guitar music this belt i used to wear, way down at the first and second notch, its the only thing ive kept from before losing weight and im keeping this because im never going back. Ever since special counsel jack smith indicted donald trump for his attempt to coup, one of the most consequential legal questions has been whether trumps lawyers can craft an appeal that would make its way to the Supreme Court before trial and give conservative justice there potentially the chance to help the ex president beat the raft. Well, here we are. Today, we have what could have been that case with trump filing a motion to dismiss the whole thing out. Based on president ial unity, the 52page motion argues trump has absolute immunity for criminal prosecutions, for actions performed within the Outer Perimeter of his official responsibility. Presumably attempting to overthrow an election and something a mob for capital within the Outer Perimeter of president s official duties. Trump has been promising to appeal this indictment on the basis of immunity and here is the filing. Former federal prosecutor harry litman posted, quote, this i would say is the big one weve known would come. Trump moved to dismiss 16 case based on immunity. Hell lose before chutkan, and probably d. C. Circuit after the great panel for him but this equals the most likely candidate for Supreme Court surprise in 2025. Joining me now is Harry Lippman the former u. S. Attorney for the Western District of pennsylvania. He also served as Deputy Assistant attorney general and the Department Of Justice. And, catherine christian, former prosecutor for manhattan district attorneys office. Harry, since i just quoted your tweet, let me start with you. We anticipated this would come because its what we call interlocutory a feel. Interlocutory you could do it before the trial, meanwhile he wants to lead the trial. Lets start on the merits of the briefing, what do you think of the argument his lawyers make . I dont think it makes it, but i think its the best that they have. Thats whether its interlocutory or not. It is really designed for pointing conservatives, and i say that with all good meaning because im pointing ahead myself. The first half of it, chris, are all these sort of constitutional separation of powers or impeachments as the sole remedy. Things like that. Then, only that, and you get the Outer Perimeter, and there is this slated sort of level of generality game with all of these, meadows and him as well where you could potato potato. You just said, well, an insurrection et cetera. Trump calls it, and i quote, ensuring the integrity of federal elections. Could the Supreme Court or conservative somehow pick up on that, and the worstcase scenario in a way wouldbe they see it and remain the case for starting all over. So, there is this sort of blatant rhetorical war of words that they are definitely going for. The second half of the brief and the first very much these conservative constitutional arguments. Yeah, i mean, there is fairly i think ridiculous argument they make, which really just sort of i think theyre just pulling out of essentially nowhere. As far as i can tell. The Impeachment Clause has provided the president by Charge Indictment only in cases where the president has been impeached and convicted by trial in the senate. Here President Trump is included by the senate. He was acquitted in the senate you cannot charge him even though one of the people that voted not to convict him mr. Connell quite explicitly says in his big speech about it, well, theres nothing stopping him from being tried in the court of law. Congress is far afield from court of law you could ever get. They also impeached him for the acquitted him on inciting that riot. That is not what january six indictment good point. Its about conspiracy against right, conspiracy to the United States and obstruction of official proceeding. So, there is no insurrection or Seditious Conspiracy count. I may be an optimist, but i dont think we should assume that the six conservative members of the Supreme Court are part of the Donald Trump Fan Club maybe im just an optimist. Right. I agree with you, what do you think . I agree that theyre not going to endorse him on the facts, but the question is the law. Even that question you just said its chunky, what they want is for the court to take it and decided it, and theres going to be a big question if hes convicted to lose the election, does he get bail pending appeal, which i think he probably does. So, that, and others are designed for them to a pine more than thought hold for him. Thats a few years. Thats the real risk here. The question here, the question comes down to good faith bad faith. It comes down to sort of everything. I was just making sure that things were being dumb, i was just checking up. The facts i think show that thats ludicrous. The big question becomes delayed. Thats really it, kathryn. This is where weve been anticipating this. Does the courts say everything stayed pending arguments . Well get to arguments in six months or did they say, stayed pending arguments and well get to arguments into weeks . For them to basically kick the can pass the election in front of the entire nation on a Shutter Dog Position i think would be a catastrophe for this court which is already barely hanging on to legitimacy. What do you think . A win for donald trump. The whole purpose, and harry is right, is delay. Lets hope that they grant and then say will decide when we feel like deciding. It will be after the election. It is all about the lay, for every single one of his cases, thats what his Defense Attorneys are doing. What do you see, to get back to harry here on the immediate schedule here, because again, everything is a clerk. He is filing, he wants to push his maralago case till after the election, now hes got, this is all the clock, its all the clock. What do you see is the immediate thing judge chutkan does and the d. C. Court doesnt dealing with this motion . She denies it. Then, he moves for an interlocutory appeal. They of course on have to grant that appeal, and they can wait until after a trial. But, they granted, absent if you do sort of the mast on the d. C. Circuit i, dont see it happening. There is one case a totally against him here, and this is a very brief, four pages of authority and federalist papers all that kind of stuff. I dont see them doing it. Then, he moves for certain. Now, where exactly were captain which is talking about, that will be the issue. All right. Strap in. Real test here for those numbers. Harry litman and catherine christian, thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you catherine. Still to come, legal System Bearing down and donald trump continues to inflame supporters. Michael beschloss joins you on the continuing threat of farright violence, ahead. More cash. You think those two have any idea . That they can sell their Life Insurance policy for cash . So theyre basically sitting on a goldmine . I dont think they have a clue. 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So far, we have actually been relatively lucky, but i worry how long that will last as donald trump continues to demonstrate he is more than comfortable urging his followers towards mayhem. We just had another near miss. Yesterday afternoon, wisconsin manager to State Capital loaded handgun scene he would not leave until he saw the governor, Capitol Police took action, but that was not the end of the episode. Immediately, the man was taken into custody for illegally openly carrying a firearm in the capital. He was arrested and booked into the states in county jail. Hours later, were told the man built himself out and showed back up to the capitol wednesday night, this time, with a loaded rifle. The same man who shouldve with the handgun was arrested. Returned to a capital from jail with an ak47. He demands to the governor. Thankfully, he was taken back into custody without incident, this time for a psychiatric evaluation. This incident came less than a week after another event in new mexico that sadly did turn violent. 23yearold ryan martin a seen here wearing a maga hat shot and wounded an indigenous man attending a protest in the city of espanola. Albuquerque journal capture this chilling photo of martinez as he drew a gun and fired. Also Report Martinez published Pro Trump Post and has previously been invested by the fbi after posing violent threats about the federal reserve. That story is a warning signal, barely cracked national news. If you look around, youll see even more. This reports out of franklin tennessee. To hear from the candidates who want to run the town for the next four years. They were joined by nearly a dozen white supremacists. Someone said you are here making a statement, i dont know that statement is. Im not making a statement. We are here for gabrielle. You are. White supremacy is protecting that candidate who is made Fighting Lgbtq events a focus of her campaign for mayor. The man on the left is showing kaufman who has been described at the stop of Antisemitism Group as, quote, a disturbed neonazi and Holocaust Denier with a documented history of violence and a massive cash of firearms. Miss hansen, how does it look having white supremacist here providing security . No comment about that whatsoever . She refused to the white supremacist who say they stand with her and her beliefs. So, fascist, guarding the candidate, thats one local race that will be a very disturbing one. You cannot disconnect any of this from the man at the head of the Republican Party. Just in the past couple of weeks, donald trump has called for Police Officers to shoot shoplifters. He suggested that fourth our general mark milley be executed. Hes used blatant not see tropes, in a recent interview, he said migrants are, quote, poisoning the blood of our country. The more he keeps this up, the more i worry our relative luck so far is going to run out. 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Understand we worry about the stability of this country and what that means for the world. Michael beschloss and we see news president ial story in joins me now. Michael, one thing i was trying to tell myself when i get too presentist is that the u. S. Has been two periods of and that look of violence, already the civil war and reconstruction in the 19 twenties during the 1960s. So, i want to put things into a historical perspective. Im curious where you can sort of see us right now in that sense. Its a violent country, its not the only thing to know about america, but just as you are seeing, slavery was continuous violence for centuries, violence against native americans, and just as youre saying the civil war. Also, when the nearly 1960s for instance after john kennedy sent a big civil rights bill to congress, if you look at his fbi files, the number of Death Threats against president kennedy rose. 1990s, the violence against the federal government both threatened an actual Oklahoma City, the bombing of a building. Other domestic terrorist threatening. The difference between that time and this time is this. In the 1990s when those threats were there, when the actual tragedy of Oklahoma City happened in 1995, we could rely on the president of the United States both parties in congress and across the country to say violence of this kind is outside the american system and has to be stopped. Peace has to be restored. Now, we are in a situation where many more guns in america, Gun Safety Laws have been relaxed, and you got one of the two parties, the Republican Party that is absolutely seduced by donald trump, who loves violence, who when he was president threatened to invoke the Insurrection Act Or Martial Law to stop violence. This is the heart of america, not on the fringe. Thats point about what you might call organic Political Violence of certain factions, it might be quite sophisticated or deadly in the case of Oklahoma City bombing. That is the difference that the person who is the nominee likely to be the nominee of major parties, the leader of the party, his countenancing of it is encouraging. One of the most chilling moment, i havent mentioned, but i want to bring it up. Were not going to play it because its too despicable to do so. But, he was in that room in california fundraiser, and he made a joke about speaker pelosis husband who was savagely attacked an eight year old man in his home. He says, how is he doing and the crowd roars. Thats to me, the message that sends to anyone who wants to do something horrible is that hes got your back. He approves of it, and that to me seems really pretty unique and uniquely dangerous. In modern times, when did we ever hear a president or an ex president ever Say Something remotely like that and people applaud and gets normalized . Plus, in modern times, domestic terrorists and people like the one that Assaulted Pelosi perhaps, these people can now contact each other on the dark web. They could not do it in jim crow alabama in 1925. This is a very new period. If you get a possible next president of the United States, if donald trump is elected 13 months from today exactly, or if somebody like jim jordan become Speaker Of The House, just as you were saying earlier, where was he on january 6th . Why cant you remember what kind of conversations he had or did not have with donald trump at a time donald trump may have been running that whole operation to wage a coup detat and congress. One third of our Supreme Court was appointed by donald trump. We are not in a situation that we might have been in in the 90s where we could depend on all three branches of our government to protect us against this kind of violence. There is also the question of federal Law Enforcement and what they do about it. Obviously, this is a longstanding question. You have huge attacks against federal Law Enforcement, the 90s, and what happened at waco and ruby ridge providing inspiration for folks like timothy. Of course, a very tortured and complicated legacy of how the fbi has dealt with this. Incredibly despicable action and things but also, going after the claim in the south. You got the situation now where the fbi is seen as deep state. Every motion he tried to make is immediately subject to political backlash and on fox news. What is donald trump savvy, he has said flat out, Elect Me President , i will neutralize the fbi, which is a blind organization, all do the same Department Of Justice, and i will essentially appoint lackeys if the pentagon. Can i say one more thing, chris . Please. What you are saying at the beginning, which was brilliant and we should all Pay Attention to your warning reminded me a little bit of franklin roosevelt, who was very aware of vulnerable populations in the United States. In the late 1930s, he said, privately, direct quote he said, if a demagogue ever to Up Antisemitic violence in america, he said, there would be more Blood Running in the streets of new york city than in berlin. You need a president to understand this potential is there to protect every american against that, not to try and encourage it. Well said, michael beschloss, thank you, appreciated. Thank you, chris. Still ahead, its often i get the share good news. That was a pretty dark 20 minutes. Tonight, i do have something very encouraging. A victory, im going to do that next, stick around. Attention hearing loss sufferers do you struggle to hear loved ones . Do you have trouble keeping up with conversations . Do you listen to tv on max volume . Hearing loss affects your life. You miss out on important moments. You feel alone. Start hearing better today with rcas all new, advanced hearing aids. 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This would give Alabama Voters in 2020 for the chance to send to representatives of majority black districts to congress for the first time ever, a victory Voting Rights act, and for the rule of law. That is all in on this thursday night. Alex wagner tonight starts right now. Thanks to you at home for joining me this evening. The rrpen party has two major problems on its hands right now. An ungovernable House Majority quickly descending into chaos and a