And what the Biden Administration is actually doing. On its face a hearing this week with Donald Trumps former Chief Of Staff mark meadows revolved around what might sound like a sideshow legal issue compared to the larger problem facing the former president hooch he wants to move his case from state to federal court, but what we learned from his nearly four hours of questioning has implications far beyond a potential Change Of Venue for his trial. In addition to giving us the first sense of what the argument may be from one of trumps other coconspirators of which there are many, the testimony was also another Flashing Warning Sign of what a second trump term could look like. I mean, lets zero in on the key defense we heard from mark meadows. He argued that the allegations outlined in the indictment, you know, the unrelenting pursuit of baseless claims of Election Fraud, the Pressure Campaign on georgia officials to find votes, the conspiratorial behavior to keep trump in power, he says all of that, was quote part of my role as in his role. And he doesnt think anything he did including overtly Political Campaign activities wus outside his scope as Chief Of Staff. They may sound outlandish to, even laughable but it does tell you a heck of lot was going on inside the white house at that time. Meadows himself acknowledged he helped coordinate the fake elector scheme for Trumps Campaign because trump might yell at him if he didnt. Thats literally what he said. Heres the thing, the job of white house Chief Of Staff is their job is to tell the truth hard truth tuesday the president and sometimes you get illed at. A chief of that is a card core conservative but also a protector of the constitution. Thats a pretty big warning sign that a second trump term could be far worse. Author Chris Whipple wrote this in the new york times, quote, for mr. Meadows his place in history is secure as a primary enabler of a president who tried to overthrow democracy, but his example should serve as a warning if mr. Trump regapes the white house. All guardrails will be gone. That is something ive heard from many, many people who have worked in administrations about their concern. Should trump be reelected in 2024 there should be no doubt hell surround himself with even more damaging men and women than to date. People like Jeffrey Clark who tried to blackmail other member of the Justice Department to do the former president s bidding. That guy would probably be on the short list for attorney general, people similar to or worse than Rudy Giuliani, yes, that guy who just this week was found liable of defaming two Election Workers so relentlessly that he put their lives in danger. These are the type of people he all but certainly would install in his second term, people at the top level of government who will tell him exactly what he wants to hear, not the hard truths, who he can basically control. People who will agree to attack and even prosecute any of his adversaries. People who will say, yes, sir, law be damned. My biggest take away this week was not just the legality of the actions taken in trumps first term, theres a lot to dive in there, too, but also the damage that could be done if he gets by staffing the government with loyalists and blind sycophants. You follow this all closely. Were you surprised watching mark meadows testimony of anything he had to say on monday . Not surprised so much by what he had to say as the fact he said it at all, that he felt the need to take that gamble, that big gamble by taking the stand. I think its a Dedication Both on the fact he feels he needs some kind of a hail mary to escape a potential conviction but also that if he were successful in removing the case to federal court, he has the potential to knock it out completely by arguing immunity, but listening to that testimony, reading what he had to say, i think its very weak case both for removal but also for immunity. If actions of a Chief Of Staff to try to subvert an election, to try to overturn an election, to try to defraud and violate the laws of a particular state are somehow within the Job Description of a federal Chief Of Staff, then the constitution becomes in Justice Jacksons words, a suicide pact. And as he wrote in that dissent, that famous dissent, the constitution is not a suicide pact and shouldnt be interpreted in such a way as it would negate itself, but i think he feels it necessary to take such a profound risk with this testimony. Given as you just said profound risk that he took by testifying for more than four hours, that now can all be used by other prosecutors. Did you hear anything that might be useful for jack smith and his team as they are working to put together their case in prosecuting the federal election interference case . You know, mostly the absurdity of the argument that he did this as part of his role in order to determine what further reforms might be necessary to election laws or to see the election law was faithfully carried out. That i think will be very successfully mocked during the course of the trial, and it should be. Its absurd. I think he was, you know, by and large pretty careful about what he was saying, using repetitive words and phrases by accounts of his attorney, but just the absurdity of the argument i think will ultimately be used against him. Its worth telling everybody, reminding everything its not your role as Chief Of Staff to work to overturn an election, to state the obvious. One of the things, congressman, that stood out to me is when meadows was asked directly by State Prosecutors if he had any role in courting fake electors, he said no, i did not. The prosecution then submitted into evidence an email he sent to jason miller where he wrote, quote, we just need to have Someone Coordinating Lectors for states. Youve been in a range of position in these courtrooms. Did he perjure himself there . Or how problematic is that for him . I think its problematic. This is why most attorneys would have counseled against him testifying other than as a last resort but because he is completely familiar with the discovery, and maybe he remembers these emails and maybe hes flat out lying and hes exposing himself in that way as well, but it may also be he hasnt familiarized himself with all the volumes of material yet. This is the risk, this is the peril trying to get out in front like this to remove the case. And i think prosecutors are only showing a fraction of what they have under various issues so that they can prepare a trial to use this testimony against him. But theres an argument circulating about whether the 14th Amendment that prohibits anyone, quote, engaged in insurrection or rebellion from Holding Public office bars trump from running for president. Now, this hasnt been tested in our system before. What is your thought on whether thats a valid argument . I think it is a valid argument. You know, the 14th Amendment section 3 is pretty clear. If you engage in acts of . Surrection or rebellion against the government or you give aid and comfort to those who do, you are disqualified from running. It just requires you have engaged in these acts. Its a disqualification from Holding Office again, and it fits donald trump to a tee. I think it will be tell used when either the Secretary Of State refuses to put him on the ballot or puts him on the ballot and is challenged by a litigant. I will imagine it will go up to the Supreme Court, and thats the big Question Mark through all of this, which is what will the Supreme Court do . There are prominent constitutional scholars as well as prominent progressive scholars who believe that he should be disqualified, but will the court take that step . Ultimately only time will tell, but i do think it is a very legitimate issue by the clear terms of the 14th Amendment he should be disqualified from Holding Office. Congress is not returning for a couple of weeks but republicans are already ramping up talk of an Impeachment Inquiry into president biden. Heres what Marjorie Taylor greene recently said. I will not vote to fund the government unless we have passed an Impeachment Inquiry on joe biden. Now, shutting the government down has implications on the public broadly. What is your reaction to her tying a Government Shutdown to an Impeachment Inquiry . Well, it just shows the extreme lengths theyll go to carry water for donald trump. Theyll shutdown the government. Theyll do whatever they can to initiate an impeachment of joe biden, and part of the motivation here is of course to distract from Donald Trumps multiple indictments. Part of it is to somehow dilute the stain of trumps impeachments, but the common denominator is this just unswerving, undeniable willingness to debase themselves in the service of donald trump. I think many of them would like to shutdown the government anyway. This would just give them further leverage to try to shutdown the government having failed to default on the nations credit. Many see this as the next demonstration of their commitment to god knows what. So i fear that were on a path to Government Shutdown because there are a enough members of the republican conference who want it, and Kevin Mccarthy will do whatever it takes to remain speaker one more tay or one more week. Thats his sole motivation. Congressman adam schiff, always a pleasure to have you. Thank you so much for joining me today. Thank you. Coming up, some republicans in georgia are taking aim at District Attorney fani willis, but Governor Brian Kemp is having none of it. A former State Senator who testified in front of the grand jury joins me next. Plus Election Workers ruby freeman and Shaye Moss Notch a huge victory against Rudy Giuliani. Their attorneys going to join me on set as well. Next ill ask about addressing the violence and new polling. Were just Getting Started today. Well be right back. Were just Getting Started today. Well be right back. Every busins deserves a great deal. Thats why Comcast Business is launching the mobile made free event. With our business internet, new and existing customers can get one year of unlimited mobile for free. Its our best internet. Powered by The Next Generation 10g network and with 99. 9 reliability. Plus one line of free mobile for an entire year. Its the mobile made free eventhappening now. Get started for just 49. 99 a month. Plus, ask how to get one free line of unlimited mobile. Comcast business, powering possibilities. Donald trump and his allies are digging in and lashing out as the former president s four criminal cases continue to move through the courts. They have tried discrediting the indictments, calling them among other things political prosecutions. Now theyre casualty talking about Political Violence and civil war. I told one senator, i said, listen, i said weve got to put our Heads Together and figure this out. We need to be taking action right now because if we dont our constituencies are going to be fighting it in the streets. Do you want a civil war . I dont want a civil war. I dont want have to draw my rifle. I want to make this problem go away with my legislative means of doing so, and my first step to getting that done is defunding fani willis. And dont have to want to draw my rifle. That was someone who donald trump has praised for planning to nee cap the georgia investigation. The republicans seem to be drawing a line and instead of interfering many of them seemed to promise to abide by the basic tenants of the law. Governor kemp flatly rejected calls for a Special Session or any act against willis for an indictment against trump. Ive not seen any evidence that d. A. Willis actions or lack thereof warrant action by the prosecuting attorney oversight commission. A Special Session of the General Assembly to end run around this law is not feasible and may ultimately prove to be unconstitutional. As long as im governor were going to follow the law and the constitution regardless of who it helps or harms politically. In this day and age it is kind of newsworthy when republicans dont blindly do Donald Trumps bidding believe it or not in 2023. Hes always benefitted from a tremendous amount of political cover from members of his own party, but it does not look like its going to be universally the case this time in georgia. Joining me now is the former senator who testified in fulton county. So great to see you today. Thank you so much for being with me. I want to start, first of all, with kemps rejection of the Special Session. What do you make of that, and what should we all take away from it . I think, a, he knows he shouldnt do that because whatever acts that happen it would be illegal. Theres something about separation of powers in the constitution, and you cant just do anything you want no matter what republicans in georgia or some republicans in georgia think. And then separately, look, what willis is doing is shes prosecuting a case. If trump is not guilty or going to be exonerated, then let the process play out. But just bringing charges in and of itself is not grounds, you know, for going after her or defunding her office. So this past may the governor did sign a law that setup a commission that has the power to investigate complaints and remove District Attorneys, that that commission will not be setup until october. Its currently being challenged in the court, but you know georgia politics well. I mean do you think there are a bunch of republicans going to try to take advantage of this . Or what should we beimenting here . Absolutely because anybody can make a complaint. Its not even you have to be someone who has a problem. They are going to use this as a political vehicle to go after prosecutors they dont like or they dont like what theyre Charging Decisions are. And, look, one of the biggest things is there were a lot of democrats that were you know, people of color that got elected in 2020, and so the law originally was really kind of a push back on all of those folks winning office, and now its just rolled into the trump stuff where now theyre using this law specifically to go after willis because they dont like that shes prosecuting trump. I mean you mention the separation of power, which im so glad you did because its important to remind people that is part of the tradition of our country. Is there any repercussions for people going after willis, for politicizing these cases, for trying to prosecute her . I think so. Whats interesting is what i always try to tell people and specifically even in the political context is be careful what you wish for, right, or what you push because the door goes both ways. Now weve got this prosecution Oversight Committee that goes after prosecutors who dont make appropriate Charging Decisions. You know, if we think about ahmaud arb r. A. And that prosecutor in south georgia. Really there folks politically are there going to be repercussions for that, there should be, but you never know. Thats the problem. We seem to have a very short political memory in terms of what people are doing and their policies and whether or not theyll vote for them in the future. So lot to watch there. So you there are a number of codefendants in the case that had demanded a speedy trial. Hence some of them are going to have their trials start in october. What do you make of that strategy . I know you kind of questioned whether thats a good strategy for them or not. Why would it not be a good strategy . Look, one of the biggest things is you dont know what a prosecutor has. A lot of times as an attorney you would do it because youre trying to call the hand. Under georgia law if you demand a speedy thiel, you have to get it. And if you dont get it by a certain time, then you are effectively acquitted as a matter of law. Its one of those things when you make that demand, youre going to go to trial effectively within two to three months, and you dont know what the prosecutor has. Here with respect to d. A. Willis and her office, theyve been working this case up for two years. They are red to go. She wasnt going to launch until she was ready in terms of the indictment. So thats why i question it in terms of a strategy because the only people that could possibly be called flatfooted are the defendants and the accused. Because shes already done all her homework. Now they have to cram for the test. There was a Special Grand Jury proceeding where they had i think it was like 76 witnesses. Can you imagine the discovery and what they know . To be quite frank all these various different defendants, they have no clue what she knows, whos cooperating with her, and what she has in her back pocket. Were expecting a ruling as aurally as this week on mark meadows request to move the venue of this trial. T. What do you make of his argument and what is your expectation knowing georgia law on whether he can be successful or not . Its interesting because as a general matter federal removal is a low bar. You have to show youre a federal official. Its usually pretty easy to get it over, but not with the facts of this case. Meadows did as much as he could to basically minimize the position. I was always like were you an admin, were you getting coffee and tea for folks . We know Chief Of Staff thats not really what they do. I think he lost a lot of credibility with that. He came to georgia. He tried to kind of push his way into a room where they were auditing votes, and his fingerprints are all over everything. And of course the moment where he effectively lied on the stand and said we didnt have anything to do with the fake elector thing and then of course the District Attorney pulls out an email, thats the problem with the speedy trial. Thats the problem of testifying so early on when you have no clue what exactly the prosecutor has. Thats a proof example all the things they can pull out. Jen jordan, it was such a pleasure. Thank you for joining me today. Coming up Rudy Giuliani may have to finally pay for his lies. Ill talk to the attorneys representing the Election Workers he defamed. Later my oneonone conversation with senator chris murphy. Were back after a quick break. Were back after a quick break goli, taste your goals. Theres this saying that democracy is a verb. It means democracy isnt just a concept, it involves the actual act of showing up to the polls and casting a ballot. And in every election ordinary citizens serve as Election Workers to ensure the act of democracy goes smoothly. They help voters register, operate Voting Machines and count ballots. The work these people do should be applauded, but right now theyre under attack. Theyve charged more than a dozen people for threatening Election Workers since 2020. In one indictment an iowa man threatened to, quote, lynch and hang an Arizona Election official. In another indictment a man left a voice mail for a michigan election worker saying, quote, a million plus patriots will surround you when you least expect tg. Thats pretty alarming. About one in three Election Officials have been harassed, threatened, or abused simply by doing their job. As we continue to learn, lies like these do have consequences. This week a federal judge ruled Rudy Giuliani is liable for defamation and intentional infliction of Emotional Distress on two Election Workers in georgia, ruby freeman and shaye moss. Identify might remember theyre the mother and daughter who testified before january 6th about what Rudy Giuliani did to their lives. Ive lost my name, and ive lost my reputation. Ive lost my sense of security all because a group of people starting with number 45 and his ally, Rudy Giuliani, decided to scapegoat me. Rudy giuliani can never undo the pain he caused ruby freeman or shaye moss, but now he does have to pay for it. Joining me now is the attorney for shaye moss and ruby freeman, mike gottlieb. Now we have a try to determine how much Rudy Giuliani must pay your clients. This phase is going to be a quantification phase which doesnt sound exciting to most ordinary people, but what it really means is a chance for our clients to tell the story of the harm its caused to their lives and how its up ended everything they had and knew about it, and it would give us an opportunity to demonstrate what that means financially and what we think mr. Giuliani should be required to pay to our clients for the harm hes now been found to have caused. You said tens of millions potentially if you do your jobs. Do you think that will prompt others who have been defamed by Rudy Giuliani or other trump allies to come out and File Lawsuits . I mean one of the purposes of punitive damages awards is send deterrence message, and actually one of the purpose of sections as well. When you think about why the court has entered an order of defult liability the judge is sending a message youre required to cooperate with court orders, cooperate with documents when you receive a lawful subpoena. There are consequences to this action, and we do hope itll send a message to people who might want to engage in defamation or but a message to Election Workers there are people who will have your back and stand up for you if these kinds of lies and this kind of harassment occurs to you in the future. Now, one of the people who did not provide documents is Rudy Giuliani. I mean, even as he is claiming recently he has Scientific Evidence to prove Election Fraud took place, he has been saying that for years, never produced it. Hes saying he has evidence in this case. Explain to nonlawyers whats going on here. Its very puzzling. It happens with proponents of people with conspiracy theories. Theres always some pot at the end of the rainbow that demonstrates all the details of conspiracy. The thing about lit dpagz and thing about civil litigation is there comes a time to put up or shut up, and that time came and Rudy Giuliani had an opportunity not just to turn over, you know, the documents we wanted from him but any documents at all that demonstrated any of the claims of fraud that he had in this case. And i think what you see from the opinion the court issued is she basically turned over nothing. We didnt get any affidavits from these magical witnesses who could prove fraud existed, any reports of Scientific Evidence of fraud. We got nothing. I think its puzzling that if after all these promises of fraud and all this time theres just no evidence to back any of it, and the reason is actually pretty simple. If you just watch the video that Rudy Giuliani claims demonstrates fraud has been explained by the republican Election Officials in georgia, it doesnt Show Anything other than ordinary processing of counting the ballots performed by, you know, honorable, decent servants who volunteered for that duty. So so many people i think watching are rooting for ruby and shaye in this case given everything theyve been through. But then theres question of if you sued successfully or the victim of your own success here, giuliani, why not sue trump too . Yeah, we do get that question quite a bit. I cant really speak to that in a televised interview. Oh. All i can say is, you know, if people continue to defame our clients i dont care who they are, but if people continue to go out and tv and repeat these lies we have demonstrated to be false, they can expect to hear from us. Sounds like if donald trump is out there defaming ruby and shaye he should stay tuned. How are ruby and shaye doing . Does it change their lives . How did they react to the recent ruling over the past couple of weeks . I mean they were thrilled would the ruling. Its vindication for what they have been saying, you know, for a couple of years now. Its vindication for their decision to not take this lying down, to actually stand up and do something about it, but both for them and whats happened in their lives but for the other Election Workers out there and other Civil Servants who have been harassed and denigrated. So theyre very happy with this step in the process. They recognize were not done yet and theres more work to be done, but i think they see this as an important step in the right direction. Thank you for joining me today. Congratulations to ruby and shaye as well. Coming up gun violence and same old Talking Points from republican politicians. Later ill ask senator chris murphy if he believes now is the Time Congress really could close the socalled Gun Show Loophole as the Biden Administration is proposing. Were back after a quick break. Were back after a quick break i take oncedaily jardiance, at each days staaart. As time went on it was easy to seee. Im lowering my a1c. Jardiance works 24 7 in your body to flush out some sugar and for adults with Type 2 Diabetes and known heart disease, jardiance can lower the risk of cardiovascular death, too. Jardiance may cause serious side effects including ketoacidosis that may be fatal, dehydration, that can lead to sudden worsening of kidney function, and Genital Yeast or urinary tract infections. A rare, lifethreatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. Stop taking jardiance and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of this infection, ketoacidosis, or an allergic reaction, and dont take it if youre on dialysis. Taking jardiance with a sulfonylurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. Jardiance is really swell, the little pill with a big story to tell. If you listen to some Public Officials answer questions after a mass shooting in this country theyll tell you its because of a Mental Health crisis and only a Mental Health crisis all these Mass Shootings. Weve heard it time and time and time again. Guns, no guns, it doesnt matter. You have people that are menfully ill. I dont want to take guns away from lawabiding citizens. I want to focus on people who have Mental Illness. Anybody who shoots somebody else has a Mental Health challenge, period. Weve talked about the need to improve Mental Health in this country, and thats been the driver of a lot of these shootings. We have people, though, with Mental Health were not taking care of. We have a Mental Health crisis that often disguises itself as a gun violence. We also do have a Mental Health epidemic across this country, chuck, that really is reflective of a purpose for hunger and meaning. Even if Mental Health really was oonly factor here and of course it isnt youd think these same politicians would be all for funding Mental Health programming and resources. But that doesnt seem to be the case. For example, medicaid is the largest payer of Behavioral Health services in the country. They support lots of Mental Health funding, and time and time again republicans in congress have continued to slash medicaid. And take a look at the ten mostly red states that havent adopted the Affordable Care act medicaid expansion, which basically means theyre declining extra money from the federal government that would help cover Mental Health care for lower income families. So lots of the same people who are saying gun violence is a Mental Health issue are refusing to provide more coverage for Mental Health services. Meanwhile, those who solely blame Mental Health for Mass Shootings are also stigmatizing the very people who struggle with it, struggle with Mental Health. The fact is only 5 of Mass Shootings are related to severe Mental Illness according to a study from columbia Universitys Department of psychiatry. And although 25 of Mass Shootings are associated with depression and other nonpsychotic Mental Illnesses, in those cases those conditions are incidental. Weve also seen elected officials point to Mental Health to deflect from the ideologies that clearly motivate many Mass Shootings like say the shooting at the Dollar General store in jacksonville last weekend where the gunman did have a history of mental issues, but when a white man targets black people and kills three of them, racism is clearly at play. And all you heard from these officials is Mental Health. There wasnt talk of racism. A brand new study led by Harvard Medical School and the University Of Queensland found that half of the worlds population will experience a Mental Health disorder at some point in their lifetime, and yes the u. S. Gun homicide rate is 26 times that of other high income countries. Our Mental Health problem isnt unique. Our Gun Violence Problem is unique. So whats the outlier . Im sure most of you wont be shocked to hear it. Its the guns. The United States has more guns than people. U. S. Civilians have an average of 125. 5 firearms per million people. So the republican argument that a Mental Health crisis is the only reason we have a horrific Gun Violence Problem in this conjust isnt accurate. Its also a big copout. Mental health a big issue here and everywhere, and theres no question we need to be better as a country in funding care for those who are struggling with loneliness and isolation. Theres a long list of complex societal issues that could leave someone angry enough and want to commit a mass shooting in any country. The only reason those in the United States can act on it so easily is they can go out and buy a gun in a matter of days if not minutes, and that is inherently an american problem. Senator criss murphy, a long time advocate of common sense gun reform, joins me next. Ommon gun reform, joins me next. Good thing the general gives you a break when you need it. Yeah, with flexible Payment Options to keep you covered. Just tag us in. Ouaaaahhhh [bell dings] for a great low rate, go with the general. Trelegy for copd. 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[ Tires Screeching ] jordana, easy on the gas. I gotta wrap this commercial, i think im late on my payment. Its okay, the general gives you a break. Yeah, we let you pick your own due date. Good to know, because this next scene might take a while. For a great low rate, go with the general. Despite what the cynics and skeptics would have you believe, there are solutions to the epidemic of gun violence in america. Just this week the Biden Administration moved forward with the plan to regulate gun sales in the United States. The new proposal which is a direct result of the bipartisan gun reform law passed by Congress Last year would eliminate the Gun Show Loophole. Right now a massive amount of private gun sales are happening without Background Checks. This new proposal would require all Firearm Dealers to get a federal license and to conduct criminal Background Checks regardless of where the guns are sold. Joining me now is one of the countrys most vocal proponents of gun safety reform, senator chris murphy of connecticut. Great to see you labor day weekend. Thank you for joining me today. Yeah, thanks for having me. So weve been Hearing Versions of closing a Gun Show Loophole for some time now. A lot of us youve been talking about it for years. Do you think theres a greater appetite to do this now, and what are you hearing from republican colleagues thats encouraging . Well, you know, this is such an exceptional issue in American Politics today. The public has made up their mind, they want universal Background Checks. It polls at 85, 90, 95 approval in this country. You dont get that kind of Approval Rating for grandma or apple pie or baseball. Its like the most popular thing in the United States that criminals and people with serious Mental Illness dont have guns. Its been frustrating to voters at the top of the list why congress cant get it done. You did mention we did make a pretty important change. We made it clear anybody in the business of selling guns even if its a part time business has to be licensed and has to perform Background Checks. The Biden Administration announced just this week they are going to be implementing that section of the bill and literally Tens Of Thousands of guns sold without Background Checks, how did Background Checks apply, and that means theyre going toby a lot fewer criminals, a lot fewer criminals with Mental Illness to find loopholes around the law to get their hands on a firearm. And its predominantly people who are selling, you know, maybe 20, 30, 40 guns a year at a gun show or online who werent doing Background Checks before who are now going have to have to perform Background Checks and by the way fiveminute backgrounds checks. Background checks that dont stop a gun owner from getting their hands on a weapon. One of the big challenges is what the fbi director has been saying for years, racially motivated violent extremism is the largest threat to our country. Unfortunately, weve seen White Supremacy as the primary motivator of a number of Mass Shootings in the last few years including recently in jacksonville. But a lot of the rhetoric from a lot of the leading candidates continues to escalate. What can we actually do about this as a country . Well, i think theres two important things to say here. First st. There is a direct through line between the glorification and endorsement of violence that is happening in rightwing political circles and the usage of violence against black, brown, gay, lesbian, transgender americans. Folks out there glorifying violence as part of trumps movement theyre sending a signal of endorsement to people who think they can deal with the demons by taking out violence on people that they hate. But the second piece of this is related to your opening. You talked about this scapegoating of the mentally ill. Its really important to point out you dont have to be mentally ill to be racist. There are plenty of people its not the same thing. Who are not mentally ill who are hateful and prejudiced towards minorities and vulnerable populations in this country. Its just not true to look at many of these hate crimes and just write that away as a consequence of Mental Illness. Theres a difference between Mental Illness and racism, and the folks that are distributing this racist hate material, they have to be held accountable for that. So back in congress i know the senate is not back identity yet, but of course theres lots of thought about whats going to happen when you do return. Majority leader schumer said in his Dear Colleague letter the focus will be preventing House Republican extremists from forcing a Government Shutdown. For people just tuning into that possibility, therethreats of an Impeachment Inquiry into president biden. Do you think that will be the hold up in getting government funded through the house, or what are the issues that will be really debated here . Well, it would be an absolute tragedy as this economy is recovering and seeing record job growth, as youre seeing wages rise for the government to shutdown because of rightwing republican demands. That is the last thing our economy needs right now. The truth of the matter is that we can keep the government up and operating. We can get a budget, but its going to be without those 100 or 150 most Radical Republicans in the House Of Representatives. There is a coalition of democrats and a handful of Reasonable Republicans in the house along with the senate that can pass a budget, and that really is just a question as to whether Kevin Mccarthy is willing to stand up to those right wingers who are clamoring for impeachment or he is going to let them run the business not just at the House Of Representatives but run the business of the United States of america. Thats a question hell have to answer in the next 30 days. Taking it to the president ial race, theres a polling that shows president obama and joe biden tied in the president ial race. It is very, very early. And trump actually takes the lead when you include Third Party Candidates. We go through the ebbs and flows talking about Third Party Candidates. How concerned do you think people should be about a Third Party Spoiler . Is it something youre concerned about . We certainly look back to prior president ial elections like 2000 and come to the conclusion some of these Third Party Candidates were just positive. I do think were in a bit of a different time right now. I think stakes are higher. I think its less likely voters are going to throw away their vote on a Third Party Candidate when we actually get to the election day. Sometimes people are more willing to suggest theyll vote for a Third Party Candidate in early polls, less willing when it actually comes down to decision time, but i think joe bidens going to do incredibly well. I think hes going to probably run against donald trump. I think hes going to beat donald trump by a bigger margin than in the last election, and i think thats because hes going to have a pretty incredible record to run on and there are going to be issues like abortion that are going to drive even more voters especially young voters out to the polls in 2024 than came out in 2020. And i think that our success in passing things like the bipartisan Safer Communities act is proof to those young voters that when they turnout and vote for democrats we actually can get things done that matter to them on issues like guns, choice, and climate. Im not worried about the 2024 election. I think youll see a lot of these close polls, but when choice is made by voters i think joe biden is going to do incredibly well. There are few people i can do a tour of the world with but you are one of them. I want to ask you before i let you go youre on the Foreign Relations committee. There are reports some weapons being sent to the ukrainian front lines are ending up in russian hands. How do you feel about the accounting youve bip given about the stat of that . Do you want more information or do you feel satisfied with what you have . I feel very good about the accounting. Lets be honest the front lines interest dangerous, chaotic places. In every single conflict there have been weapons that end up changing hands in part because territory ends up changing hands. But what ive seen thus far, the information ive been given tells Me Ukrainians have been incredibly thoughtful and responsible in the usage of weapons we have given to them. I think what youre going to see is a lot of opponents of the ukraine war supporting ukraine in this war, propagandists around Vladimir Putin who are reg gotie troocome up with lots of excuses as to why we shouldnt give weapons to the ukrainians, but one of those reasons is not their end usage. The ukrainians have been incredibly responsible and we should continue to support them. Senator chris murphy, thank you for the tour of the world politics. Cant do that with everybody. Appreciate your time today. Well be right back after a quick break. Stay with us. Well be right bac quick break. Stay with us goli, t Car Engine Revs engine accelerating Texting Clicks tires squeal glass shattering Loose Gravel Clanking that does it for me today. Thanks for joining us on this holiday weekend. Well be back here next sunday at noon eastern. But stay right where you are because theres much more news coming up on msnbc. Over a third of his supporters have said they would happily go to a another candidate. They just need more time to look at them. Thats where trumps weakness is. A lot in the media like oh, this is over, this is over. Its really not. Remember this guy named barack obama who they said had no chance against Hillary Clinton and the Clinton Machine and all that back in 08. In about six months all that got very, very different. You have to let the process play out. Thats New Hampshire governor chris sununu pushing back against new national polling