Transcripts For KPIX 60 Minutes 20240712

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Dont stop taking eliquis unless your doctor tells you to, as stopping increases your risk of having a stroke. Eliquis can cause serious and in rare cases fatal bleeding. Dont take eliquis if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. While taking eliquis, you may bruise more easily and it may take longer than usual for any bleeding to stop. Seek immediate medical care for sudden signs of bleeding, like unusual bruising. Eliquis may increase your bleeding risk if you take certain medicines. Tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures. Ask your doctor about eliquis. And if your ability to afford. Your medication has changed, we want to help. Whitaker for years, Chanel Miller was known to the world simply as emily doe, the name used in a court case to protect her identity. She was sexually assaulted in 2015 by a Stanford University athlete named brock turner, who was found guilty of three felonies, including assault with intent to rape. Before his sentencing, emily dom delivered a powerful victimpacte Emotional Trauma the assault and the Legal Process had put her through. It instantly went viral, becoming a kind of manifesto for assault survivors all over the world. Chanel miller reclaimed her identity as the author of that statement and shared her story for the first time with 60 minutes last september. As youll see, she chooses her words carefully when she speaks, just as she did when she put them to paper for her best selling book, know my name. So this is where you write . Chanel miller mmhmm. Whitaker for the last three years, Chanel Miller has been writing her own story. Miller here are some of the drafts. Whitaker the 27yearold majored in literature at u. C. Santa barbara, and has wanted to be a writer since she was a child. She decided to relive the most painful experience of her life because she believes her story, filtered through the glare of the media and restrictive lens of the courtroom, remains untold. Yeah, im sure it wasnt your top choice to write a book about this. Miller its not the topic i wouldve chosen. But it was the topic i was given. Audiobook director so start at the top and let them have it. Whitaker we were there when she recorded her audiobook. Miller in january 2015, i was 22, living and working in my hometown of palo alto, california. I attended a party at stanford. Whitaker she didnt attend Stanford University, but she grew up in its shadow. Whyd you decide to go to a Fraternity Party . You were out of college at that time. Miller my sister was home for the weekend, and it was my way of spending time with her. Whitaker so people were drinking . Miller yes. A lot of red cups, like a typical fraternity scene. Whitaker do you remember having fun at the party . What were you doing . Miller i was dancing on top of a chair. And my sister was sort of coaxing me down, to stop embarrassing her. Whitaker chanel has never denied she drank a combination of whiskey, vodka and champagne. You drunout . Four hours later in a hospital surrounded by nurses and a police deputy. She had abrasions all over her body. Her hair was tangled with pine needles. Miller i had no idea how to put those pieces together. Whitaker how did they tell you what they thought had happened . Miller all they said was that i had been found, and that somebody had been arrested. And that he had been chased down because he had been acting hinky. Hinky was the word the detective used. Whitaker did they tell you where you were found . Miller behind a dumpster. Whitaker what they didnt tell her was that her underwear and cell phone were found on the ground by her body. They also didnt tell her there were witnesses two of them who not only saw the attack they stopped it. Swedish grad students Peter Jonsson and carl arndt were riding their bikes to the party that night when they saw something disturbing behind the dumpster outside the frat house. Peter jonsson we see a couple lying on the ground, with one person on top of the other. Carl arndt he was moving a lot. But we just saw her lying there completely still. Whitaker they realized the woman was unconscious. Jonsson says when he approached them, the man, later identified as brock turner, got up and ran. Jonsson i didnt really have time to think, so i just chased after him. I remember quite vividly. Like, i was on his left side. And i got my right leg in front of him. And then i took my body, my upper body, and threw him over my leg and down on the ground. Whitaker so, carl, you go over to help peter hold brock turner down . Arndt yes. He was trying to get loose. Whitaker he was squirming, trying to get away . Arndt yeah. Whitaker did . Jonsson not super drunk. Like, he could talk. Arndt and he clearly could run. Whitaker they held him until police arrived. They also checked on chanel. Jonsson she was completely unconscious. Arndt i was trying to, like, shake her, and nothing happened. Whitaker chanel was taken by ambulance to the hospital in san jose. Early that morning, she was examined and told she may have been sexually assaulted. The deputy asked if shed be willing to undergo a rape kit test. She agreed. Did it sink in . The gravity of your situation . Miller absolutely not. I just thought i had passed out somewhere and that there was a suspicious man at the party who had behaving in an odd way. I had no idea that he was connected directly to me in any way. Whitaker chanels sister, who had left the party early, and had been frantically calling and looking for her, got a call from chanel at the hospital, and came to pick her up. The sisters agreed not to tell anyone, not even their parents, until chanel knew more. For ten long days, she heard nothing not from the hospital, police, a counselor. Nobody. Whats going through your head . Miller in order to survive, you just shut everything down. You have to function. You have to go to work in the morning. So its much easier to just repress everything. Of course, i had questions. I woke up and didnt have underwear. Why is that . No one tells me where it went. But you just have to keep living. Whitaker then one morning at her job at a small tech startup in silicon valley, this item popped up on her newsfeed. The words stanford, rape, and intoxicated, unconscious woman leapt off the and she learned for the first time that her assailant had penetrated her, with his fingers at the very least. Yound out wht happened to you . Miller yes. Whitaker reading an article online . Miller yes. It was surreal, having the news broken to me by the internet. I was alone, sitting at my desk, surrounded by coworkers, reading about how i was stripped and then penetrated and discarded in a bed of pine needles behind a dumpster. And thats how i figured out all of those elements. And they all added up. And i finally understood. Whitaker the name brock turner was mentioned in the had you arhis naef milleever. T r reading the article was read the comments. And there were many hateful words. Whitaker what were some of the comments . Miller what was she doing at a frat party . This isnt really rape. Why was she alone . Shes the predator because shes older. Why would you ever get that drunk . It was endless. Whitaker so what do you say to those critics . People who say, you did drink until you blacked out. You did make yourself vulnerable. What do you say to those people . Miller rape is not a punishment for getting drunk. And we have this really sick mindset in our culture, as if you deserve rape if you drink to excess. You deserve a hangover, a really bad hangover, but you dont deserve to have somebody insert their body parts inside of you. Hiker the da it deputy distrittornealalehianl she would be handling th were there specific elements of this case that stood out to you . Alaleh kianerci i mean, the entirety of it, the fact that it was a stanford swimmer, who was an olympic hopeful. Really a privileged athlete and student, so that stood out. The fact that it was so very clear to anyone who encountered chanel that evening that she was not conscious, that she was super intoxicated, so she was in no position to consent. Whitaker what did his privilege and stanford have to do with making this more difficult to prosecute . Were looking at what brock turner had to lose, versus what he did to chanel. And so, the narrative changed. We were almost on the defense, explaining why chanel got too intoxicated instead of focusing the attention on, why did he think it was okay . Why did he think that he could take advantage of her when she was in such a vulnerable state . Whitaker the case received international attention. The media couldnt resist the story of the fallen athlete from one of americas most prestigious schools. To protect her identity, chanel was dubbed emily doe. Turner was almost always identified by his accomplishments in the pool. When you saw the description of him as a champion swimmer on the stanford swim team, what did you think of that . Miller i didnt understand why it was relevant, when youre also reporting that my lower half was completely exposed, that my necklace was wrapped around my neck. That my hair was disheveled. That my bra was only covering one breast and the rest was pulled out of my dress. I dont understand why it is relevant how quickly he can move ntext t e. Whiker did you fet that description of him as a championship swimmer sort of changed the narrative . Miller yes. They were framing it like he had so much to lose, and were not focusing on what had already been lost, for me. Whitaker by then, she had told her boyfriend and parents. But despite their love and support, she felt alone. Chanel told us she became angry, withdrawn, and deeply depressed. Miller i would just sit at work and do nothing. I would stare at the screen, and then i would come home and i wouldnt sleep. And so, physically, i began breaking down. Whitaker she didnt want anyone to know she was emily doe, the woman in the news. Four years later, the trauma remains just below the surface. Miller i felt if anyone ever found out that that was me, that it would be absolutely humiliating. I felt dirty and embarrassed. I my dream is to write childrens books. I felt, no parent sighs is going to want me as a role model, if im just the discarded, drunk, halfnaked body behind a dumpster. Nobody wants to be that. Whitaker how did you carry on . Miller well, when i was reliving all of this, i thought, well, the same night the assault happened, a miracle also happened, which was that i was saved. And thinking of the two swedes who knew to do the right thing, and who wanted me really to be okay, always gave me hope. Whitaker so, they changed the story . Miller they changed the story. They changed the entire trajectory of my life. Whitaker when we come back, the trial, the sentencing, and Chanel Millers compelling courtroom address to her assailant that would reverberate around the world. ticking are you still at risk for a heart attack or stroke . Even if youre on a statin . Statins may lower some risks, but may not be enough. Thats why science delivered vascepa. For people who have persistent Cardiovascular Risk Factors and take a statin only vascepa is clinically proven to provide 25 lower risk from heart attack and stroke. Dont take vascepa if youre allergic to icosapent ethyl or any inactive ingredient in vascepa. 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What was it like when you finally realized that you were going to have to face brock turner in court . Miller it was absolute dread. And i went to a therapist, almost like a personal trainer, and said, you have three weeks to get me mentally ready. But until then, i thought, you have to drag me into the courtroom, because im not going to go. Whitaker the case would become a media maelstrom. Chanel miller told us that as bad as the previous 14 months had been, nothing prepared her for the cold, adversarial and intimidating atmosphere inside the courtroom. Miller i remember standing outside the courtroom doors, and theres a very thin sliver of window in the door where you can look in. And i remember seeing the back of brocks head and his neck. And i thought, wow, this is this is him. Kianerci it is incredibly difficult for a victim of Sexual Assault to walk into court in front of their perpetrator and recount the worst thing that happened to them in a room full of strangers. Whitaker Deputy District Attorney Alaleh Kianerci had charged brock turner with three felony sex crimes. Rape charges were dropped, because there was no evidence of intercourse, which was required in california at the time. But, she was convinced she had a strong case because of the two swedish eyewitnesses. Kianerci they were integral. Without them, we would not know the identity of brock turner. They chased him down, and they physically held him down until police arrived. Hes an athlete. This is somebody who got into school because of his, you know, physical prowess. And these are two engineering grad students. And theyre really the most important reason why chanel didnt suffer a more devastating Sexual Assault. Because i believe, and i argued this to the jury, that had they not stopped him, he wouldve completed the, the rape. Whitaker so what was the hardest part about making your case to the jury . Kianerci chanel had no memory. She was completely unconscious, or too intoxicated to remember the immediate moments before. So, we had a perpetrator who was able to write the script. Whitaker turners first draft of that script was his police interrogation, conducted just hours after the attack. He told a detective he met chanel outside the frat house, they started kissing, and that he followed her, holding hands, behind the dumpster. He said he placed his hand between her legs and she seemed to enjoy it. He also told police he didnt recall running when the swedish grad students interrupted them. But when turner got on the witness stand 14 months later, his story changed. Now, he said he recalled meeting and dancing with chanel inside the fraternity, asking her to go back to his dorm room, leaving together, slipping and falling and laughing. Then he said he specifically asked her if he could touch her, intimately, and she said yes. G from the swedish grad students,o bound by the truth. I thought those are the rules. Thats how court works. Whitaker you wrote that this version of events sounded like a poorlywritten young adult novel. Miller yes. There was a lot of tumbling and laughing. Whitaker sounds at great odds with what he said shortly after having been arrested. Miller it was all completely new. He had written a new narrative. Whitaker so, in this new narrative, youre in agreement . Miller the new narrative was extremely convenient, because he needed consent. He needed the word, yes. Whitaker turner would add one more lurid detail he claimed under oath that she had climaxed. Miller oh, i was livid. I didnt understand why it had been allowed to go that far. Whitaker i think you told us before that you felt as though you had been assaulted a second time. Miller i felt like i was assaulted multiple times. Every time youre reliving this. Like, this is the list of body parts submitted as evidence. Whitaker the trial took its toll. The barrage of questions, the mortifying photos of her half naked and unconscious body shown in open court, and worst, she says, turners defense attorney constantly objecting and cutting her off to make her words fit his narrative. Miller and i remember in court, the defense attorney always said, chanel has no chanel has no memory. And i remember sitting there and thinking, i will remember everything. I will remember every remark. I will remember the lighting inside this courtroom. I will remember the texture of the Defense Attorneys hair. I will remember the depth of the pain you made me feel. I will remember it. And i will record it. And i will write it so that it will not be lost. Whitaker chanel poured all those memories, feelings, and frustrations into her memoir, know my name. With anguish and humor, she takes on a criminal Justice System she says fails the most vulnerable. I want to read something you wrote. This was not a quest for justice but a test of endurance. Swearing under oath was just a madeup promise. Honesty was for children. Thats what the courtroom experience felt like to you . Miller yes. After brocks testimony, it felt like all rules had been abandoned. He will go to any end to come out of this without a guilty conviction. And for me, it felt like, how many times can we make her relive this . Whitaker after all those traumatic days, you get the verdict. Tell me about the verdict. Miller my heart was beating extremely loud. It was deafening. It was really hard for me to focus. And i was just waiting for the sound of guilty. Whitaker and she heard it. All 12 jurors found brock turner guilty of all three felony counts. But it wasnt over. The sentencing was two months away, and chanel was asked by the deputy d. A. To write a victim impact statement, a letter to the judge to inform his decision. Miller its basically documentation of your thoughts and feelings throughout this process. And i majored in literature, which was basically four years of talking about my feelings and reading about other peoples feelings. So i thought, wow, theres an assignment that exists in the world that i was made to do. Whitaker she had been keeping notes on her iphone throughout the process, and in one impassioned allnighter, she wove them into a defiant, first person narrative. A few days before the sentencing, she gave it to the prosecutor. Kianerci when i first read her letter, i immediately shared it with people because i thought, this is so good. This is what we see victims go through, what we know that they go through, but its never been summarized in such an articulate and profound way. Whitaker chanel recently read those words for her audiobook. Miller your honor, if it is all right, for the majority of this statement, i would like to address the defendant directly. You dont know me, but youve been inside me. And thats why were here today. Whitaker chanel spoke directly to her assailant in court. She says she noticed people crying. Brock turner wouldnt look at her. Miller your damage was concrete; stripped of titles, degrees, enrollment. My damage was internal, unseen. I carry it with me. You took away my worth, my privacy, my energy, my time, my safety, my intimacy, my confidence, my own voice, until today. Whitaker as he handed down his sentence, judge aaron persky acknowledged chanels words, but also cited the defendants good character, the fact that hed been drinking, and the impact prison would have on his life. Judge persky sentenced turner to six months in jail a sentence at the low end of state guidelines. With good behavior, hed walk free in 90 days. Your prosecutor had been asking for six years. Miller yes. Whitaker how did that hit you . Miller i was in shock. So youre saying i just put aside a year and a half of my life, so he could go to county jail for three months. There are young men, particularly young men of color, serving longer sentences for nonviolent crimes, for having a teenieweenie bit of marijuana in their pockets. And hes just been convicted of three felonies. And hes going to serve one month for each felony. How can you explain that to me . Whitaker chanel didnt think her voice had been heard, but it had. The news wsiasubli impstatt without giving it much thought, she agreed. Miller i didnt think it would take off anywhere, and i actually felt really vulnerable again, thinking, why am i putting myself out there one last time . You know, whos going to sit and read through this entire thing . But then the views started trickling in, and soon it was 100,000, then 500,000. And by the end of the day, it was a million. Whitaker within four days, it hit 11 million. By then, her statement had been shared globally, published by newspapers, and read aloud in its entirety on tv. Members of congress staged readings in the capitol rep. Ted poe you have dragged me through this hell, with you. Whitaker and so did people all over the world. Youtube woman you dont know me, but youve been inside me. Whitaker and thousands of emails and letters addressed to emily doe flooded the courthouse, eventually making their way to her kitchen table. So these started coming in the next day . Miller the next day. And it was really like medicine. Reading these was like feeling the shame dissolve, you know, bringing all the light in. Whitaker you heard from a number of survivors . Ler many survivors. And sometimes they would say, you are the first person im telling this to, or this is the first time ive been able to speak in six years. Whitaker in the wake of the sentencing, there was a national uproar. And, after a contentious special election, judge aaron persky became the first judge to be recalled from californias bench in more than 80 years. The case also led to significant changes in california law, setting mandatory prison sentences for anyone convicted of assaulting a person who is unconscious or intoxicated, and expanding the definition of rape to include nonconsensual sexual penetration. Kianerci i mean, thats democracy in action. Within 90 days, a law was changed, all because of her words and her strength. Whitaker what do you think of that . Kianerci im extremely proud of that. Ill take the defeat of a light sentence for a change in the law. Miller two bills were signed into law by california governor jerry brown. Alaleh mailed me a copy of the signed document, like a certificate that granted me the right to sleep peacefully, knowing this botched sentencing would not be repeated. I began to believe again in justice. Whitaker after the trial, brock turner was required to register as a sex offender. 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Until recently, the giant panda was on its way to extinction. But then, it was saved by its one evolutionary advantage its adorable. In 2016, the pandas conservation status was upgraded from endangered to just vulnerable. Because the giant panda is chinas national symbol, the chinese have worked four decades to perfect breeding the bears in captivity. This past fall we first told you how theyve achieved one of the biggest successes in conservation. But there is more work to do. The next step is introducing captive pandas into the wild. That research slowed after a few freed bears were found dead. And, as you are about to see, no chinese scientist can afford to lose even one baby cute cat bear. In theigh mountains of china,goe pandas werent discovered by western naturalists until 1869. Today their fans know where to find them. Each morning humans compete for position at the Chengdu Research base of giant Panda Breeding in central china. A ticket is about eight bucks. Some days there are 100,000 visitors. So, yes, thats 800,000 a day. But the experience is priceless. If these bears were in the wild, theyd be rare and solitary. They would be in alpine forests as high as 13,000 feet and we saw, about 30 feet up, how they went unnoticed for so long. At the research base, each bear is known by name, liked online and wrapped in the flag. A selfie with chinas national symbol, is a tap of patriotism. Marc valitutto when im out on the street, and if anybody asks me about what i do, i tell them, i work with giant pandas, they immediately thank me. And then they follow it up with, that is our national treasure. Pelley enriching the treasure is the work of Marc Valitutto, a wildlife veterinarian from the Smithsonian Institution in washington on loan to the Chengdu Research base. And so what we see here is actually a normal healthy panda lung and a normal healthy panda heart. Pelley the smithsonian has helped propagate pandas since china sent Richard Nixon home with a p 12. Back then, china barely had two to spare. By the 1980s there were only about 1,200 left in chinas bamboo forests, which humans were cutting down. Is bamboo the only thing they eat . Valitutto 99 of their diet in the wild is bamboo. Pelley a forest is delivered every day to the chengdu base. The common name, panda, means bamboo eater. But because this member of the grass family is so low in nutrition, each bear spends up to 16 hours a day shredding 40 pounds of leaves and stems and that is hardly enough to keep him alive. So, the rest of the day, the bears burn as few calories as possible. Even mating is incredibly rare. Valitutto only once a year can a female be prepared for breeding. And that is within a very small threeday window. Pelley a female panda is capable of breeding three days a year . Valitutto exactly. A very small time. Pelley a very small time for a very small bear. And, how old are these cubs . Dr. Wu kongju one month. Pelley dr. Wu kongju told us, when these cubs are newborn, they average about four ounces. The size of a stick of butter. And how many cubs do you bring into the world in a year . Kongju this year is five. Five babies. squeak pelley of the five cubs that are born here this year, how many do you expect to survive . Kongju all. Pelley all of them . Kongju all will survive. Yeah. Pelley about half the time, pandas have twins, but the mother cant care for both. Valitutto in the wild, the smaller, the weaker twin will be mother doesnt have ghf ha babies. Pelley but in captivity, twins are fed in the nursery and, with a touch, mom is called to duty, to nurse the twins one at a time so both survive. The cubs eyes wont open for about six weeks, so mother helps him to her breast. And like every nursing mom a change of position helps. Especially, when her back is killing her. The cubs are dependent up to three years. Shell raise only five, or maybe eight, in her lifetime. How big do they become . Valitutto so, the females can be up to maybe around 200 pounds, and the males up to 300 pounds. Pelley why are they black and white . Valitutto you know, thats a very interesting question. Its a mechanism to protect themselves, like many, many other animals out there that are black and white or various different colors. Pelley its camouflage . Valitutto you know pandas love the snow. So, the white parts really helped them hide in the snow, where the black would be presumptive of shadows. Pelley the panda is a curious bear. Belonged in the bear family. Pandas dont hibernate. And though theyre virtual vegetarians, they have the digestive tract of a carnivore. Panda nutrition was a mystery when dr. Hou rong came here nearly 30 years ago. Shes director of research and told us that the base started as a shelter for injured pandas that had been rescued. There were very few pandas, she said. All of them were seriously ill, close to impossible to breed. We were also broke. I was the only scientist. You had a dozen pandas . Dr. Hou rong yes. Pelley how many do you have now . Rong now is 200. Pelley 200 healthy pandas have grown from the research into nutrition and understanding those fleeting female hormones. Its gone so well that a new area of research has opened panda geriatrics. The bears live about 20 years in the wild, but up to 35 in the in 1937, a leading american naturalist described the giant panda as an extremely stupid beast, dull and primitive. But Marc Valitutto showed us pandas understand commands. The whistle signals something good is about to happen generally involving apple slices. Then, on cue, the bear volunteered its arm, through the bars, to a metal tray and gripped a handle. Its having a blood test. Valitutto all of the pandas, the adult pandas here, arely tor their arm for a blood sample. It really helps us to prevent the animals from having to be anesthetized and allows the animal to be an active participant in their health. Pelley ive seen people throw a bigger fuss than he did. Valitutto theyre incredibly complex creatures, just like many other bear species or carnivorous species like dogs and cats. Pelley like dogs, pandas come at the sound of their name. They know their day will start with apples and continue at the enless bamboo buffet. But success in captivity does not necessarily mean salad days for the species. To thr gic must come home to the wild. Melissa songer this is really an exciting time, because theyre doing so well in captivity. And we can really consider them safe. Thats not so for the wild populations. Pelley Melissa Songer is a smithsonian conservation biologist working at the foot of mount qingcheng, near the center of china. Songer this is the Chengdu Field Research Center and most people know it as panda valley. And it was established for the purpose of preparing captive pandas for release into the wild. Pelley one of the Amazing Things that we saw is how well trained they are. But it strikes me that thats a blessing and a curse. Songer they dont have the opportunity to learn how to find food or defend against predators. Even mating is very complex in the wild. So yes, theyre highly trained, but they arent really trained to be in the wild. Pelley then do you train them to be wild . And and if so, how do you do that . Songer theyre not going to be fed. Theyre going to have to move around and find food. And taking it step by step so acclimatizing them to a very different situation is an important phase before full release. Pelley like sending the kids off to college. Songer yeah. Exactly. Pelley there are fewer than 2,000 wild pandas, living in only three mountainous provinces of china. Theyre segregated into small groups, cut off from one anoth songer about half of those populations are less than ten pandas. And so that kind of puts them at risk for losing genetic diversity, it puts them at risk for other events, natural disasters, diseases that might come through. So, its a dangerous number. Pelley to reduce the danger, two research bases are testing competing ideas. One, from a research station called wolong, minimizes contact with people to the point of dressing the trainers in panda suits that are scented with panda urine so the bears dont even get a whiff of humanity. The other approach encourages the human relationship, in case a panda needs to be rescued. While the bears walk on the wild side, theyre monitored with radio collars in case they get into trouble. So far, 14 pandas have been released, three have died. But those few failures have slowed the research because if a panda is killed, its not just some bear, its a bear with a name, and a million likes on its web page. Songer any time you release a captive animal to the wild youre taking a risk. And you prepare as best you can, but there are things you cant really prepare for. Pelley one of the pandas who died was attacked by dogs, another appears to have fallen from a tree. The captiveborn pandas take longer to establish territory but, for the most part, they fit in. China says it will soon spend more than a billion dollars on a 10,000 square mile Panda National reserve to connect those pockets of wild bears. It suggests that species can be saved. Valitutto it absolutely but more than that, whats even better than the survivability of this species is that they are an umbrella species, meaning that the care that we provide for the pandas and the tracts of land that we preserve, will also save a whole multitude of other species that also need our care, that a lot of people dont even know about. Pelley which raises a fair question. If a multitude of species is saved, if climate benefits from five million acres of forest reserve, are we saving the panda or is the panda saving us . ticking ticking how do you raise a baby panda in captivity . At 60minutesovertime. Com. Allergies with nasal congestion overwhelming you . Breathre airflow two timese than the leading allergy spray at hour one. [ deep inhale ] claritind. Get more airflow. [players hustling] [swish] see the game like youve never seen it before. Shingles doesnt care. I logged 10,000 steps today. Shingles doesnt care. I get as much fresh air as possible. 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