Transcripts For KCSM An Evening With Eric Holder 20180205

Capehart good evening. His life has been a series of firsts the first African American u. S. Attorney for the district of columbia, the first African American Deputy Attorney general, the first African American attorney general of the United States. His life has been committed to excellence and social justice. Tonight we are here to celebrate a life well lived, and here to help us is the amazing artistry of mr. Raul midon. [playing invisible chains] midon when i was a little boy vivid dreams were my favorite toy sweet music set me free i closed my eyes to see the invisible chains invisible chains now ive grown to be a man gonna make my way with my own two hands wish that i could be absolutely free from these invisible chains invisible chains where theres a will there is a way, mmhmm where theres a will there is a way oh, whoa, yeah where theres a will there is a way oh, whoa where theres a will there is a way making my way toward my redemption this prison is of my own invention, yeah what will it take to capture my attention . Love will help part the sea dark sea thats inside of me that holds these invisible chains invisible chains where theres a will there is a way to break these invisible chains where theres a will there is a way, mmhmm where theres a will there is a way to break these invisible chains where theres a will there is a way to break these invisible chains [applause] capehart please welcome to the stage the honorable eric holder. [applause] ive covered you for many years. Ive gotten to know you, but tonight provides a unique opportunity for us to get to know who eric holder really is. Like so many americans, your familys story is an immigrants story. Uh, both of your parents came from barbados. Youre youre double bajan. Lets take a look. William my father is, um, born in barbados, came to america through ellis island when he was 12 years old. My mother was born, um, in atlantic city, new jersey. Um, she was born of bajan parents, as well. Malone eric grew up as the older of two sons. His mother was a wonderful woman, and she doted upon her son. William we were raised by, um, two parents who were very much aware of what was going on in america at the time, very much connected to the movement inin terms of thinking and teaching us of how to interpret it and where we should stand. Malone i think that was one of the things that motivated erics father so much, you know, to work hard and to make sure that his sons didnt have that sort of uncertain existence. William my father and mother would read the newspaper every day, and my brother picked up on that, and so he would start the newspaper at the back. He would start on the sports pages and read it forward and then read it backwards. He was chosen in fourth grade to go to a Junior High School outside of our neighborhood in the gifted childrens program, so at Junior High School, um, he wound up being elected the student president , um, first black one at that school. Obviously, it was a big event in our house to have him go to college, do as well as he did. Bollinger ii dont know anybody, uh, who is an alum of columbia who loves the institution more than eric. Foner eric holder talked about when he was a student, he took my course on the civil war reconstruction period. That class, uh, really emphasized the importance of slavery in shaping American Development and bringing about the civil war. He really learned a lot about what he knows about the history of race. Malone in a lot of ways, i think, he was, uh, shaped by, you know, what was going on at the time with, uh, the vietnam war, the protests, the burnings, you know, thethethe student takeovers. Must go. Jim crow must go. Jim crow must go. Jim crow must go. Malone eric sort of saw the injustice in the world, you know, and i think that that was ultimately what sort of led him to law school. He tried to figure out whether or not you know, how are you going to be able to change the system. Are you gonna change it from within . Are you gonna change it from without or some combination thereof, and i think that eric probably saw the law as the best avenue for being able to effect change. [applause] capehart so you emulated your father reading the newspaper backwards and forwards. Tell us more aboutabout your parents. Holder my father was raised by his mom. Uh, his father abandoned him, and i think he was determined to make sure that his sons never felt that sense of uncertainty thatthat he felt in his life. He didnt graduate from high school, and yet hehes, i think, the wisest man iveive ever known. My mom was a traditional, you know, mother who was always there for her sons, constantly pushing us to make sure that, withwith regard toto educational achievement, that that was something that we focused on because that was gonna be the key toto success. Capehart why dont you tell everybody what was extraordinary about your father joining the army . Holder he was too old to be drafted orso he decided to enlist, and he capehart he was almost 40. Holder yeah. Yeah. He, uh, was a master sergeant, and while in uniform, he was discriminated against, both in North Carolina and oklahoma. In oklahoma, he was told he couldnt get a sandwich at a lunch place, had to walk around to the back, which was new to himcoming from the west indies, having lived in new yorkand yet that never shook hishis faith in this country. As an immigrant, heuh, the immigrant love for the new country was something that he always had and that whole generation that put up with so much so that people like me would have the opportunities that i had. Capehart and did i read this right . It was yourit was your grandmother in atlantic city. Uh, she was politically active in that she helped toor was part of demonstrations to integrate the woolworth lunch counters in atlantic city. Holder oh, yeah. She was a firecracker. She was from barbados, and one time, we picked up the new york times, and i said, hey, that looks like grammy, and there she was holding up a sign protesting to desegregate the lunch counters inat woolworths in atlantic city, new jersey, and so people have to remember that, you know, this whole question of segregation, discrimination was not only confined to the south. Capehart so from the fourth grade on, you, like so many, um, who went through integration and so many like me who are children of theof the civil rights movement, you had to live in two worlds. You had to become bicultural. What was that like . Talk about that. Holder yeah. I did lead that dual existence. I mean, ii was certainly still aa kid grounded in east elmhursta lowerclass, predominantly lowermiddleclass, predominantly black neighborhoodand then i was in another part ofof queens where i went to school that was overwhelmingly jewish and a little morelittle more upscale, and i had my feet in in both worlds, which, i think, in some ways was and adadvantageous to me because it equipped me for the world that i was gonna have to deal with, uh, as an adult, never wanted to lose mymy roots, you know, andandand mymy sense of myself as primarily a black man, but at the same time, i wanted to be able to figure out how to negotiate, you know, the majority society. Capehart andand you didnt lose your roots becauseeven though you were going to a predominantly white, predominantly Jewish School you socialized at home. Most of your friends werewere from the caribbean. Holder yeah, yeah. Capehart is that right . Holder yeah, a lot of people from the caribbean, a few, um, who had parents from the south, but, uh, you know, my ability to dance, my ability to, uh, you knowand i can dance uh, my abil capehart iiive seen it. Yes. He can. Holder my ability to focus on the appropriate music. You know, beatles were cool, but i was with the temptations, the supremes, you know, parliamentfunkadelic. That was east elmhurst, you know . Thats where i was. Capehart uh, and you also went to stuyvesant. Holder mmhmm. Capehart which is still to this day one of the most exclusive schools in the country, in new york city. You got some incredible score. Whatwhat was it . Holder 260 out of, like, 300. You get 300 questions, and i think i got about. Capehart thats right. Holder 260something or other of them right, you know . Capehart and so you wanted to go to ucla. Holder i wanted to go to ucla. Kareem was there, you know . Um, he washe has been my idol for as long as, i think, ive been alive. I followed him in high school and college, and i figured, you know, um, i wanted to be out there with the man and got into ucla, but they didnt give me nearly as much money asas columbia did, and so i decided to stay in, uhin new york, and i remember when my father said, now, you got to think about this, son. Where would you be ratherwhere would you rather spend you time in college, in providence, rhode island, or new york city . [laughter] and i thought about that for about a nanosecond and said, im going to columbia. Capehart now, one of the professors youyou had is, uh, eric foner, one of the nations most preeminent slave historians. What impact did he have on you . Holder well, he, at the time, was talking about things that are more commonly accepted now. He talked about the impact of slavery on this country in terms of the economic base that it created for this nation and how the north was dependent on slavery and how the development of the United States was dependent on the maintenance of the slavery system inin the south, and these are things that we had never heard ofof before. I think he was probably a minority voice at the time, but all those who have really studied the issue at this point really acknowledge that but for slavery, this nation would not have become the nation that it became. Certainly, it was you know, if you look at slavery population, that was the single most valuable asset in the United States at the time. Im not, obviously, saying that it was a good thing, but in pure economic terms, that is thats true. Capehart in your senior year, you decide to apply to law school. Holder yeah. Capehart now, did you really want to go to law school, or were you trying to delay the inevitable . Holder no. Ii describe law school at that time as the haven for the undecided. Um, i came out of, uh, college with a degree in American History, and i was thinking, all right. Now what do i do here . And people told me, there are so many things that you can do with a legal degree, and i said, all right. That sounds good. Ill go there and find out what i can do with awith this degree inin the law, but in first year, um, i had criminal law taught by, uh, telford taylor, who was a former nuremberg prosecutor, and something clicked. Um, you know, the notion of dealing with, uh, criminal law and being a litigator, it was, i guess, after my first year, towards the end of my first year, i decided, you know what . I think i really want to be a lawyer. Thats what i want to do with, uhwith a legal degree. Capehart and then you also liked constitutional law. Holder yep. Constitutional law iswas probably my favorite subject in law school because you really understandyou get a sense of the history, uh, of the United States by the study of constitutional law and especially the way in which the Supreme Court got it right sometimes, got it wrong too often, and, um, through the study of the legal system and decisions made by various judges and particularly the Supreme Court, uh, you got a better understanding of, uh, how we got to be the country that we are. Capehart and you had some great clerkships during that time. Holder that i did. I, um, clerked after my second year uh, after my first year, actuallywith the naacp Legal Defense fund, and after my second year, i came down to washington, dc, and i was, uh, a clerk here at the Justice Department in thein the Criminal Division. Capehart its interesting to see your life in hindsight because those clerkships literally set the stage for your career and life in dc from the department of justice to become Dc Superior Court judge and beyond. Lets take a look. Malone when eric was judge, one of the things that i think permeated his tenure was this concept of fairness. Everybody really liked eric and had a lot of respect for him, and i used to always thinki was like, how can prosecutors and Defense Attorneys like you . You know, but you learn that fairness isnt a zerosum game. Yates i remember him talking about his experience when he was a superior court judge here in the district of columbia, and he was required because of the minimum mandatory sentencing in place to sentence so many young, African American men to literally decades in prison for drug crimes, and he saw the impact that that had not only on them, but on their families and on their communities. Wilkinson the, uh, crack epidemic had hit the district of columbia, and, um, he cared, obviously, very much about, uh, the Public Safety of the citizens of the district of columbia. There were conditions that were breeding crime, andand he realized that just locking defendants up, um, without, uh, appropriate treatment programs and chances for rehabilitation, uh, perhaps was not the answer. William i remember a particular case. It was a 12yearold who was in Gang Activity and had shot and killed another very young personi think it might have been another 12yearold and that case really, really moved him. Norton i chose, uh, eric holder because of his very distinguished career in the Justice Department with the Public Integrity section and his career as a superior court judge, the trial court judge, uh, here in the district of columbia. He seemed to understand that this local responsibility, uhwhich, by the way, is the predominant responsibility for the u. S. Attorney for the district of columbiawas something he had to rethink and make sure fit. Wilkinson he really, um, i think, transformed the way thatthat that office, uh, conducted business prior to mr. Holder becoming u. S. Attorney. The office seemed somewhat detached from the community. Reno in the course of these oversight functions and committees, we have debated and disagreed, sometimes fiercely, on a number of issues, and today, obviously, is no exception. Henderson the appointment of janet reno as the attorney general was a sign of hopefulness. Eric holder was her deputy ag and took responsibility for initially handling her criminal justice portfolio. Holder i appreciate the opportunity to speak with you today, uh, on the important and troubling issue of hate crimes. Uh, as you know. Henderson we, among other things, tried to advance, uh, the passage of the hate crimes prevention act, now known as the Matthew Shepard james byrd hate Crime Prevention statute, uh, and so, uh, we were able to work with eric holder, uh, to work with janet reno, uh, to try to advance those concerns, and for that reason, i think he, uh, deserves to be recognized as one of our greatest public servants. [applause] capehart one of our greatest public servants. The man who said that, wade henderson, is here in the audience, and public life has been your calling, and now, you started with the department of justice in the Public Integrity section. Holder the Public Integrity section is the part of the Criminal Division that prosecutes, um, official corruption cases, and so i had the opportunity to try cases all over the country, i guess as far west as guam and as far east as, i guess, philadelphia, boston, never tried a case, though, in washington, dc, interestingly enough. Capehart and then the Public Integrity section was that section that was the creation as a result of watergate. Holder yeah. It was created after watergate because the department of justice at that time did not have a mechanism within headquarters to deal with, uh, public corruption cases, and, uh, thenhead of the Criminal Division richard thornburgh, who later became attorney general, decided that there was a need for that, so i was the first honors grad to be a part of, uhof the Public Integrity section. Capehart andand did you like that work . At the time, did you think that thats the work you wanted to be doing . Holder oh, i loved it. My plan was to comei took the new york bar because i was going back to new york, which was the center of the universe, and i was gonna stay here for about two oror or 3 years. I ended up spending 12 years at theat the Public Integrity section, and ive never leftuh, never left dc. Capehart now, so after working at the Justice Department, as you said, for more than 12 years, you were then appointed by president reagan to be dcs superior court judge, but you found that work to be, uh, interesting, to say the least, because of what was happening in washington at the time. Talk about what it was like, one, being a judge, so how old were you . Youyou were. Holder 37. Capehart so young but also at a time in washington that was difficult, to say the least. Holder it was a time when dc was in the throes of the crack wars. Um, people tend to forget that at that time, washington was considered the murder capital of the country. We had the highest percapita, um, murder rate, and i had coming before me on aon a daily basis, um, these just waves and waves of young, black men who i had to sendsend to prison, and it was something that just wore me down over the course of the 5 years that i wasi was a judge, and so i, uh, ultimately decided to, uhto leave the bench. Capehart now, was it Thurgood Marshall who said that the Dc Superior Court was one of the most powerful places you could be . Because its washington, dc, you have, uh, jurisdiction over local things but also federal matters. Holder yeah. He was talking about the position of the u. S. Attorney, and u. S. Attorney in, um, washington, dc, is both the local prosecutor as well as the federal prosecutor. Its why its the largest u. S. Attorneys office in the country, and given, you know, where you sit in washington, dcuh, you can do things asas complicated as, you know, complex political corruption cases, like the case of dan rostenkowski, in addition to doing, um, you know, street crime where youre dealing with, umwith misdemeanors, and, as the u. S. Attorney, you have the ability, uh, to set policy, and thats one of the reasons why i was, uh, so grateful that Eleanor Holmes norton gave me the opportunity to be, um, u. S. Attorney and was supportive of the ideas that i had about shifting, um, responsibilities and resources to the superior court side and taking people away from even more draconian federal drugsentencing laws that we had at the time. Capehart one of the wonderful things that happened to you while you were sitting on the bench was that you met sharon. This is what she said once you met and you asked for her number. Holder oh, yeah. Capehart and she said, well, you know what . Im listed. Im listed, and my names listed as s. D. Malone. Holder right. Capehart Call Information and get my number, and if you cant remember my name between now and the time you get home, then dont bother. [laughter and applause] holder and she did tell me that, and i still have the piece of paper, the invitation that i gotoh, i remember. I got to the car, and i wrote down, s. D. Malone, and i called up, and we spoke, uh, the next day. Capehart by the time you met sharon, youyou were sitting on the bench. Holder right. Capehart right, and you mentioned earlier that congresswoman Eleanor Holmes norton is the one who put you forth to be u. S. Attorney for the district of columbia, and then you were nominated by president clinton. Holder yep. Capehart and confirmed in 1993, and it was during that period you also became close with the late ron brown. Holder i did. Capehart you considered him a friend and a mentor. Holder and a mentor. Hes a guy who, uh, i owe a great deal to, who i miss onon a daily basis, and one of the darkest days inin my life as u. S. Attorney was the day of the plane crash. Capehart now, a year after ron browns death, uh, 1997, president clinton nominated you, or appointed you, to be Deputy Attorney general of the United States under attorney general janet reno. Holder yeah. Capehart you were confirmed 1000. [laughter] i mean, thats unhear that would be unheard of today. Holder no. Thatyeah, exactly. 1000 . No. No. Thatthat thatthats virtually impossible. I mean, aa noncontested, um, conformation vote now would be, like, 9010. Youd have to figure out, now, why did you voteyou know, what people just reflex they dont want to let people get 1000 votes, but, yeah, i got that asas deputyDeputy Attorney general. Capehart and as Deputy Attorney general, uh, again, under attorney general janet reno, youre basically running the department. What does that actually entail . Holder it isit was, for me, in some way the most physically demanding job thatthat i had because you have responsibilities for policy but you also are the person whos the interface between the Justice Department, other executivebranch agencies, and all the u. S. Attorneys, 94 u. S. Attorneys around the country, all of whom, you know, think that they havethey have a president ial seal on their walls, and they all think they know better than anybody else, and so you try to navigate that, trying to make sure that the attorney general has all the information. Um, its a really, really tough job because the reality is, the attorney general has the ability to say, you know, in some nice way, well, im not gonna do that. Let the Deputy Attorney general do it, soand, um, youre kind of like the mikey of the Justice Department, and, um, ii left that job saying to myself, i will never again be the numbertwo person in any organization that, uhthat that im a part of. Capehart now, you said attorney general janet reno let you work on things that you were interested in. What were you interested in . Holder i was certainly interestedwe started something called the children exposed to violence initiative, um, where you look through all the studies that shshow that, um, kids who are exposed to violenceand not peoplenot kids who are necessarily the victims of violence, but just exposed to violencewere less likely to finish school, more likely to become involved in the criminal Justice System, and, i think, very interestingly, more likely to be revictimized, and so we tried to focus on ways in which we could, um, intervene in the lives of kids who had been exposed to violence so that they wouldnt follow into all of thosethose negative things. Capehart mmhmm, and during that time, the nation was shocked by the murder of james bird in texas. Holder yep. Capehart killmurdered by white supremacists, and then it was about 5 or 6 months later Matthew Shepard. Holder Matthew Shepard. Capehart was left to die on a prairie fence inin wyoming, and that led to the push and a call for hate crimes legislation. Holder yeah, and it was something that we, uh, worked, you know, long and hard to, um, make law, toto come up with ways in which we could put on thethe federal books, give us the ability to deal with those kinds of crimes, and, uh, you know, we were butting our heads against, um, you know, a wall in congress. It took an awful long time, didnt happen during the clinton administration, to get thosethose billsuh, those bills passed. Capehart 2000 rolls around, and its Vice President al gore versus thentexas governor george w. Bush. You had maybe visions of serving at a higher capacity in a gore administration, but, as we all know, that did not happen. Al gore went down to defeat, um, so you couldnt be janet renos holder im not sure he actually went down to defeat, but for purposes of this conversation, well say that. All right. Capehart yes. He did not become president of the United States, is what i mean. [applause] as a result of al gore not becoming president of the United States. Holder mmhmm. Capehart you toyed with the idea of running for mayor of washington. Holder i did. Capehart first, why . Holder mmhmm. Capehart and theres a part two. Holder well, you know, ithis is a city that i love. I thought that there were things that i could contribute, given the relatively unique experiences that i had as a judge, as a u. S. Attorney. It seemed to me that the potential of the city was untapped. All of the potential of the city had been, uh, untapped. Id made, um, friends, relationships asespecially asas u. S. Attorney, that i thought i might be able to convert into some good policy and be a force for effective change. Ii was really intrigued byintrigued by that possibility. Capehart theres one person you talked to in particular who, um, killed the idea. Holder yeah, my lovely wife, um, who said, i thought interestingly, that she would vote for me and that she thought that i would be a good mayor, but she said that i would be serving as a single man. [laughter] capehart andand thus holder that pretty much ended it. Capehart yeah. Ha ha ha so you didnt run for mayor. Um, sharon put a stop to it. You decided you wanted to stay married. Holder yeah. Capehart and so you went into the private sector. You joined the law firm of covington birling. Holder yep. Capehart what did you work on when you were there . Holder ooh, a whole variety of things. It was my First Experience in, uhin the private sector, and so, you know, i worked on, uh, commercial cases. I worked on international cases. It was a fascinating 8 years. Id really tried to avoid private practice, but covington turned out to be a really good experience. Its one of the reasons i went back to the firm after i left, uhleft asas ag. Capehart but there was aa shift in the country after 9 11. How did 9 11 impact you and your thinking Going Forward in terms of whether you wanted to stay in private practice or go back into government . Holder after, um, 9 11 and after our governments reaction to 9 11 and especially with regard to the, um, interrogation techniques that we, um, employed, ii began to speak out about those kinds of things, uh, talked more about, um, i thought, the way in which the socalled war on terror was being, umwas being prosecuted, was also concerned about, um, the way in which the war on drugs waswas being prosecuted, and i becamei started to gravitate more again towards towards public issues and thought, to my mind, in my own mind, that if i had the opportunity to serve again, that might be something that id be interested in. Capehart and, in terms of waterboarding, when you swhen you spoke out about that, what was it about waterboarding that so offended you that required you felt required, compelled to speak out . Holder well, you know, its interesting. The first question i was asked in my conformation hearing, um, was, was waterboarding torture . And i said, yeah. Its obviously torture. Um, we prosecuted people, the japanese, who did that to our prisoners in world war ii. Um, we tried to hold accountable people, uh, in the vietnam war who did it to, um, ouruh, ourour prisoners, and the notion that our nation would then engage in, umin activity that we had condemned, um, seemed, to me, to be antithetical to who we say we are, um, aas a nation. Capehart as it turned out, the, um, al gore not being president of the United States turned out to be a brief pause because you would go on to be appointed the first African American attorney general of the United States under the historic presidency of barack obama. Holder yep. Capehart lets take a look. Henderson when obama chose to appoint eric holder as his attorney general, we did not know at the time that he was really making a significant, uh, contribution to reshaping American History and most especially the history of civil and human rights. Biden not only is the attorney general the president s lawyer, but he is the peoples lawyer. Wilkinson the day that he walked into the Justice Department, the staff in the rfk main Justice Building erupted with applause. I mean, there were folks lining the hallways, the stairways, the balconies. It was a sense that eric holder had come home. Holder i want to begin by thanking Vice President biden, a good friend. Abduljabbar i think erics role in Race Relations has been showing all americans that a black american can handle a job. Color has nothing to do with your abilities. Holder in things racial, we have always been and we, i believe, continue to be in too many ways essentially a nation of cowards. Muhammad the speech he gave to the employees of the Justice Department, um, about the importance of black history and its role in achieving justice in america. Henderson he believed that real change, lasting change began with confronting the hard truths that may have stood as barriers to advancing your goals. Murguia we saw this in last years election with countless attempts to suppress the vote of communities of color. Stevenson minorities, those who will never have the political power to protect themselves fully through the political process, that, for me, is the most important thing the Justice Department can do. Ifill the day the shelby versus holder case was decided, the case in which the Supreme Court struck down aa key provision of the Voting Rights act, eric holder convened a number of civil rights leaders in his office. Henderson using his lawyers aggressively in the Civil Rights Division to defend Voting Rights, that made a powerful statement. You know, eric understood that voting is the language of democracy. You know, if you dont vote, you dont count. Maya my father acted as someone who wasnt afraid to be an agitator. My dad has really impressed upon me that you should always do the right thing. No justice. No peace. Protesters of different ages and races demanding answers in the shooting death of 18yearold Michael Brown at the hands of a policeman. Cummings one of the things that is seared into my memory is when he went on behalf of the president to ferguson after Michael Brown was killed. Holder arrived in st. Louis this morning. He met with students, community leaders. Cummings to watch his sit down with grieving mothers and family members, to watch him put his arms around them and embrace them, its full impact on ferguson may never be properly written, but it is written in the hearts of probably everybody that lives there. He will live in so many African American men for generations yet to come, and his impact will have a tremendous effect on generations yet unborn. [applause] capehart i mean, we have a lot to get to. That video and seeing your reaction speaks volumes about your tenure and just the reaction from the audience, how the public sees your tenure, but also how you feel about your own tenure, and you would not have been in that position if you had not been introduced to one thensenator barack obama from illinois, and you met him at a dinner party in 2004 . Holder it was after he had been elected, um, to the senate but before hed actually been sworn in as a senator. , capehart and so you meet him. What did you think . Holder well, you know, it was interesting. I mean, we immediately kind of hit it off talking about sports. He has this, you know, misimpression that chicago sports teams are better than new york sports teams, so there was a bit of friction in addition to that affinity, but we also started talking about the kinds of things that he had been doing in chicago, things i had done as as Deputy Attorney general in my time inin the Justice Department, and, uh, we talked especially about, um, criminal Justice Reform and some of the interesting things that he had done, uh, as a state senator, and, you know, it was the kind of thing where youyou just kind of have a feel for somebody that you kind of like them, and beyond liking, you know that they have athey shthey share a worldview, um, with you. I went to his office on a couple of occasions, uh, after he was sworn in, and we talked about,y what could we possibly do with the, uhthe federal criminal Justice System and the criminal Justice System, um, writ large. I think that was kind of the the initial glue that, um, you know, held usheld us together. Capehart did you think then that, wow, not only do i like this guyhes interesting; hes funbut hes gonna be president . Holder oh. Um, no. I cant honestly say that i thought he was gonna be president. You could see that he was gonna go places, maybe be a force, you know, in thethe senate, um, a force in washington. Um, you know, he was impressive. Um, he was engaging, um, and hes all hes still all of these things. You know, heshes funny, um, and he was just a person who i liked and who i respected and who i thought, um, had a lot an awful lot to offer. Capehart so then he decided to run for president , and you decide toyoure gonna help him and you along withwith Valerie Jarrett andand now the first lady there inin iowa campaigning for him. Holder yeah. I remember he called me to, uh, ask me to be a past ofof the campaign, and, uh, i cut him off midway, you know, through the conversation and said, im in, um, and i thought that, you know, this was gonna be an idealistic quest that we were gonna be involved in. I wasnt at all certain that we were gonna win, but i remember after that first trip, um, to iowa and coming back andand telling valerie, theres something going on here. Ii thought all about, you know, my dad, the stuff he went through inin world war ii, discriminated against while in uniform. I thought about my grandmother and the protests that she was involved in and about all the folks who made, um, my career possible, and it just seemed to me that was something that i wanted to be i wanted to be a part of. Ive never regretted it. Capehart then senator obama becomes president elect barack obama from the state of illinois. Did you think you wanted to work in the administration . Holder yeah. I definitely wanted to work in the administration, and the question was, um, you know, where i was gonna work in the administration. Capehart i mean, was there any question that you would be tapped to be attorney general of the United States . Holder yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, there were posother possibilities discussed among them, you know, positions within capehart such as . Holder positions within the white house. Capehart such as . Holder white house counsel, and the question was, you know, where could i serve the president best, um, and there was at least one school of thought that thought, you know, we want to keep you here in the white house and close to the president. I thought that, given my experiences at theat the Justice Department and how important the Justice Department was and how critical the Justice Department was to this whole notion of criminal Justice Reform among other things, that i could best serve the president uh, president there. Capehart what did you view as, uh, your priorities coming back into the building as attorney general, the first African American attorney general of the United States . Holder well, first thing was to, um, reestablish the morale and sense of direction, uh, within thethe Justice Department. The place had been inespecially the Civil Rights Division had really been, um, decimated in a whole bunch of ways, both in terms of resources dedicated to the Civil Rights Division and, um, the way in which the career people in the Civil Rights Division had been had been treated, and the same thing was true in the environmental and Natural Resources division, to a lesser extent antitrust division, and so the first thing was to build up morale and give people a sense of, umof purpose and then from there to focus on the things that i thought were, um, important. We had National Security responsibilities, but i said, you know what . The Justice Department has responsibilities for a whole group of other things, things that i call the more traditional parts of the department, and i said, im not only gonna be a nationalsecurity attorney general. Im also gonna be focusing on these other things criminal Justice Reform, antitrust enforcement, um, environmental, um, protection. All those kinds of things were gonna get equal, uhequal weight. Capehart now you are attorney general of the United States, now you are back in government, and you have, um, all the access to all the information that comes with that job. How did your view on waterboarding, on the patriot act, on the socalled war on terror, National Securityhow did your views in those areas change as a result of now being the top lawenforcement official in thein the country . Holder i dont think they necessarily, um, did change, and one of the first things that we did in the Obama Administration was to rescind those office of Legal Counsel opinions that served as the, uhthe underpinning for, uh, those enhancedinterrogation techniques which were inconsistent with, again, who we say we are asas a people, and we came up with a way in which you look at the Army Field Manual and said, if this is the way in terms of interrogating prisoners, were gonna do so in a way that, um, stands up to the ideals that we have, uh, aas a nation, so, you know, my views didnt necessarily, um, change. I was critical of thethe Prior Administration when it came to how certain parts of the of the war were, umwere prosecuted, and, umand this has been publicly reported i ordered an investigation into, um, some of the techniques that had been used and some of the people who had employed the employed those techniques. Capehart in that time, the the political environment, um, became increasingly more difficult not only just not from since the time you were there, but, uh, before, but when there asas attorney general, how difficult was it to do your job in that pressnot Pressure Cooker isnt even the right wordjust an environment of hostility . Thats the word im looking for. Holder yeah. You know, it was an interesting thing because there was a lot that i thought we could accomplish if wed had just kind of a normal give and take. I mean, you know, theres always gonna be friction between republicans and democrats, conservatives andand liberals, but there were a lot of positions that were taken by the other side that i thought were unprincipled and kind of unnecessary that were designed, um, to not give any successes to this president , to this administration, you know, perhaps to this attorney general, and so it became a difficult thing, and so the question then became, how do youhow do you navigate that, and you looked for, um allies on the other side, um, in a way that you didnt have to do inin the past, but also, you had to rely on executive power that we had. The president did. I did, as well, identifying where we wanted to go, um, seeking legislative solutions to the extent that was possible, and if that failed, to see how we might use our, umour executive power. Capehart uhhuh, and one of the things thatthat happened was that you were found in contempt of congress. Holder right. Capehart um, as a result of fast a furious, which, i take, you dont take too kindly. Holder no. I donti dont take too kindly. On the other hand, ii think it says an awful lot more about the people who voted to do it than it does about my conduct. I mean, thats, uh [applause] thats you know, in all other administrations where you had theseand were fighting over documents here. I mean, this wasnt a question of, you know, thethe merits of fast a furious. The contempt thing is all about whether or not were gonna give them certain documents. There were always ways in which that was negotiated, and i was involved in that, um, when it came to the independent counsel, um, controversies during thethe clinton administration. We always worked out ways in which it could be done, but the folks on the other side and a particular group on the other side decided inin, uh, conjunction with the gun lobby that they wanted to make an example of, uhof this attorney general, and so they did what they did, um, and you know what . I woke up the next day, the day after that, umthat contempt vote, and i was still attorney general of the United States. [laughter and applause] capehart and. Have you seen chairman issa since youve gone into private practice . Holder no. Ive not seen him. You know, people always told me as i was going up there to testifyuh, ron weich, who whos the assistant attorney general of the office of, uh, legislative affairs, would say, eric, go to your good place. Go to your good place, and hehe saidbecause i alwaysi told himhe said, whats your good place . I said, beach on barbados. He said, go togo to that good place, to try to calm me down because im not wired in the way that, um, i might have seen, uh, in those hearings, you know, being kind of stoic and, you know, accepting allall this criticism. My Natural Inclinationim sonny holders kid, you know, and my Natural Inclination is, you hit me, i hit you back, you know, um. [applause] and so it was a hard thing to stay in that good place, but, you know, i didnt want to, um, lower myself or somehow, um, seem undignified as attorney general of the United States. I was gonna leave that, uh leave that to them. Capehart i cant let you go without talking about a couple of things. One, it was the the vacating of key provisions of the Voting Rights act. Holder mmhmm. Capehart that basically gutted it, and now weve seen a proliferation of voter i. D. Laws, uh, around the country. I would love to get your view on that and what you think the prospects are of repairing the vra. Holder i think that the Shelby County decision is one of the worst decisions the Supreme Court, um, has issued in the last 50in the last 50 years. Uh, it reflects a naivete or an ideological perspective, um, that ii think is really kind of breathtaking. Its umits its just an awful, awful decision. Capehart and the day after the shelby v. Holder decision, came the Supreme Courts decision in u. S. Versus windsor. Holder mmhmm. Capehart that was the case that vacated the socalled defense of marriage act. Why did you think it was important for you as attorney general, for president obama as president of the United States to make thatmake that determination . Holder i ultimately decided that, umgiven that legislative history, given the way in which gay and lesbian people in this country had been discriminated againsti was not gonna have my Justice Department be on the wrong side of history, and, um, i remember telling the president that, and, umbecause i didnt want him to read about it inin the newspapers, and, um, he said that, you know, he agreed with us taking that position, and then we saw, you know, some time thereafter that, um, a very conservative Supreme Court, um, agreed with us. Capehart uh, inin the Video Montage that we saw earlier, theres a terrific picture in there of you in ferguson. Um, you were meeting with community members, and theres a woman who is leaning on you. Shes leaning on you. Holder mmhmm. Capehart um, and you are perfectly comfortable. Youre still clearly in that picture talking, um, to the other people who arewho are there to meet with you. Why was it important for youas attorney general or, uh, as an African American man to go there to be in ferguson at that time . Holder we made the determination, which was a pretty risky thing at the time, that i should go out there. We were putting the prestige ofmy prestige at risk, the prestige of the president and the administration to see if my presence, my interaction with people there might have, you know, a calming effect, at least a shortterm calming effect, and what i did was to go in to selltell people, look. Im the attorney general of the United States, but im also a black man, and i understand, um, what it is you are talking about, having had some negative experiences myself with people in Law Enforcement, uh, with the criminal Justice System, and i can assure you that i will bring that perspective. The department will bring that perspective as we look at the issues here ininin ferguson. Capehart we also saw in that earlier clip the famous nation of cowards speech. Holder yeah. Capehart here we arehow many years ago was that now . Holder that was 2009. It was black history month, 2009. Capehart right. 22yeah. Your first holder i think it might have been my first address as attorney general. Capehart yes, your first, and i remember the reaction to that speech. Feel vindicated . Holder yeah. I mean, if you read the entirety of the speech everybody says, you know, nation of cowards, as if that was the ias if i came out and said, nation of cowards. Thank you very much, you know . [laughter] itit is a speech that, i think, really has stood up pretty well, and what i was trying to convey was that we are aa nation that isand i said it in the speechwe are expert at avoiding the discussion of racial issues, and its understandable because its a painful part of ourof our past, and were uncertain, you know, if you are white, black, whatever, as to how we interact with one another around issues of race, and it was really a call to say, look. We have to get beyond that if we want to get to, uh, the place where we need to be. We first have to have an ability to talk about these issues, and then we have to come up with, uhwith concrete actions, so id urge everybody, actually read the whole speech. I wouldnt change a word, you know . I wouldnt change a word. It wasi got a lot of criticism for using that phrase, you know, and, you know, others might have used a different phrase, but, uh, what i was trying to say was, this nation just doesnt confront its racial past in a way that it should. [applause] capehart so, as you know, at the historymakers, we like to end the interviewswe always end the interviews with a legacy question, so i want to ask you what you want your legacy to be, and when you think about that, talk about it from the perspective of a child of immigrants whos been able to reach such incredible heights to become the top Law Enforcement legal official in the United States. Holder hmm. Well, id like people to think of me as a person who believed in this countryum, always have, always willbelieved in the ability of this country to do the right thing. Id like to think, um i hope people think of me as, uh, an advocate for people who, um, too frequently werewere voiceless, um, as a man who tried to change institutions in our country that needed reform, and as aas a man who left this country, um, more fair and, um, more just. [applause] capehart so, eric, here to provide tribute to you is one of your favorite motown artists, kem. Holder yep. Capehart in a tribute performance of a beautiful world because that is what you are committed to, making it a beautiful world for all of us. Thank you for a great interview. Holder thank you. Capehart uh, lawyer, public servant, leader in the cause of social justice and equality, ladies and gentlemen, a round of applause for the honorable eric holder as the artist kem performs. [applause] [a beautiful world playing] kem well done, man. Well done. Another round of applause for eric holder. [applause] yeah mm, yeah whatever will be it will be wont let the weight of this world bury me we all want a place in the sun come whatever, what may it is gone will you walk out on water . Will you breathe on heavens door . Will you leave a path to follow a beautiful world . Hee a beautiful world, yeah mmhmm, hey you come suffer with me im your friend yeah theres a river of love at your hands all right, uh take your troubles and hurting to the sea, uh pass your care on, the love and be free yeah, yeah will you walk out on water . Will you breathe on heavens door . Will you leave a path to follow or will you leave a path to walk . Only faith can ease your burden only love can heal the hurt let your peace fall on the earth a beautiful world come on. Put your hands together, yall. Mmhmm. Uh its a beautiful world ooh, yeah uhhuh, yeah yeah, its a beautiful world hey, hey, all right come on, hey its a beautiful world yeah, yeah, yeah uhhuh will you walk out on water . Will you breathe on heavens door . Will you leave a path to follow or will you leave a path to walk . Only faith can ease your burden only love can heal the hurt let your peace fall on the earth a beautiful world it takes Extraordinary People doing extraordinary things to make this world we live in a much more beautiful place. We thank you for your service. [applause] capehart mr. Attorney general, thank you so much. Tonight has been truly incredible. Ladies and gentlemen, the honorable eric holder. Holder thank you. Thank you. [applause] thank you. Announcer to order your own dvd copy of an evening with eric holder, please call 8669141900thats 8669141900or by mail, send check or money order for 19. 99 plus 5. 75 shipping and handling to the address shown. The preceding program was funded in part by toyota; pepsico; toyota lexus minority owners dealership association; american airlines; Toni Cook Bush the honorable dwight bush; discover financial services; enterprise rentacar; paul, weiss, rifkind, Wharton Garrison llp; Price Waterhouse coopers; and others. Many of this regions hill towns date back to etruscan times, well before ancient rome. Others date to the fall of rome. When rome fell, europe was engulfed in chaos. People naturally grabbed for the high ground to escape the marauding barbarians that characterized those dark ages. Over time, these towns were fortified and eventually functioned as independent citystates. In their glory days, they proudly charted their own course, generally free from the dictates of popes or emperors. Then, the bubonic plague swept through tuscany in 1348. That, combined with the increasing dominance by the regional bully, florence, turned many bustling cities into docile backwaters. Ironically, the bad news of the 14th century mothballed these towns, leaving them with a unique charm and a tourismbased affluence today. Siena maintains much of its medieval character. Its sprawling main square and towering city hall recall the days when it rivaled even florence. Assisi with its walls, gates, and castle was home to st. Francis. Its massive basilica remains a favorite destination for countless pilgrims today. Volterra was an etruscan capital centuries before christ. Within its wall, the towns rustic Center Offers an evocative tuscan charm. And san marino all 24 square miles of it is unique in that its still an independent country. While novel today, tiny twobit dukedoms like this were once the norm. Medieval italy like most of europe before the rise of modern nation states was a collection of independent, little san marinostyle city states many of them no more than fortified towns on hills. Gncn has been provided by the Richard King Mellon foundadatio, the heinz endowments, the mccune foundation, the pittsburgh foundation, upmc, and bny Mellon Foundation of southwestern pennsylvania. crickets chirping mellow jazz music i was born in the hill district of pittsburgh. People call it a ghetto. Ghetto . I thought it was paradise. I can remember as a kid hearing my dad talk about wylie avenue, which was the main boulevard through the hill. I wasnt old enough to really know what he was getting at, but my dad said, theres wylie avenue, and his eyes got big. Then he said, and then theres deep wylie