Your question is an interesting question, you are a football manager, we dont want to be a football manager , we dont agree with any kind of diabetes treatment, higher than any or higher today, wherever we are, tomorrow i will be higher. Yes , you are a special companion of the above program, here in our studio, mr. Goran, the secretary of the mass Makers Association they are present as supporters of vertical development and Apartment Building and mass building, and mr. Imranzadeh , the head of the iranian islamic city think tank , is present as supporters of the development of the horizon of cities. And myself and qut , i would like to allow both guests of the program to start with mr. Omranzadeh and this question. Basically , what is your opposition to vertical development and Apartment Building, and your reasons for agreeing to villa construction and Horizontal Development of cities, in the name of allah, the most merciful, the most merciful, alhamdulillah, the lord of the worlds, peace be upon you and dear viewers, see the reasons for opposing vertical construction or vertical development of the city , we can point to several dimensions and aspects, this is the main reason. That we are against verticalization and highrise development, especially Housing Development and city development, there are various damages and various issues that have been proven that highrise construction and verticalization and vertical development of the city bring various studies in the world during the last 50 years. In our country, maybe dozens of studies have been done that the more dense we are with mental challenges, the isolation of children, their aggression and in fact, many injuries. Which has actually been proven, let me read a paragraph from this book for you. This book was translated in the country almost 20 years ago and it refers to a study that was done 50 years ago. The book the model language of cities by Christopher Alexander says many evidences there is the fact that Tall Buildings make people mad and confused. Apart from speculative benefits, Tall Buildings do not have any other reliable position for banks and land owners. They are not cheap and do not contribute to the urban landscape and social life instead of open space. They destroy, well, this thing 50 years ago, in fact, studies have shown that from 50 years ago until now, thousands of studies have been conducted that we have suffered social and cultural damage from high Level Construction to such an extent that we are looking for this model of urban development in the world. Realizing this means changing our policies from that time on, moving towards low rise, lowclassification, and generally for housing, the development of provinces and the horizontal recommendation of cities. Thank you, mr. Goran. Courtesy and respect for your service, mr. Omranzadeh, respected presenter dear people, look at the things that i describe in the selection of horizontal and vertical expansion, these are the things, namely, land, price and available land area , the infrastructure of the countrys economic situation. And urban economy, culture, history, cash transportation network, housing need, maintenance cost, construction cost, climate and topology. As a result, the fact that i have 100 negative, positive , and zero answers to this task cannot be looked at. It depends on these conditions. We can implement these conditions. Well, we can do it for Horizontal Development or vertical development. It seems that sometimes there is the opposite. It is developing horizontally, we are one of them our problems are that the cultural relations are also separated. My suggestion is to address that issue. What mr. Doctor said is that the solution is to build complexes and live in groups, this is not the case , because of this item that i said, we have to take into account in our calculations , we cannot develop the cost of development. We should not calculate the issue in our issues. I believe that this work comes with numbers and information. It is not something that we come to a city or prescribe in this horizontal city. Should we do it or work vertically in this city , we should do this work by the experts of the suburban program, and it is related to two upstream documents, one is the City Community plan and the other is the Land Development document. In my conclusion, the issue of directly opposing the highrise or in fact the construction of villas is that we should reach this conclusion based on a study and a series of numbers, that is, the statements that mr. Omranzadeh mentioned in condemning the construction of apartments and mass you dont agree with what is common. If it exists, the solution is within itself. The solution is in the solution is not that with goren, i am referring to the economic discussion, we have done the investigations and the General Administration itself, i think the economics of housing, roads and urban development have also been done. In the discussion of Horizontal Development of villas, by the way, the costs are about 25 lower than vertical and highrise Development Due to the fact that you see , when upgrading happens, the type of technology you use, the type of facilities and equipment it uses is much more advanced and requires special technology , and therefore development. Let me tell you that the horizontal Service Costs less. See, this is only our loved ones when they defend highLevel Construction and development. The vertical of the city generally says the obvious costs , the costs of the same, for example, construction, etc. , but look , we are facing huge hidden costs in highrise construction, psychological and social damage and isolation, especially for mothers and children who are the lifestyle of living in an apartment and building highrises, and in fact this kind of lifestyle happens, if we calculate the costs in the long run, it is customary in our country now, usually they produce something in rials, we have to pay for it in dollars, that is, later on people have to pay for these costs in dollars, this is the traffic in the city you see tehran, you see the air pollution, no matter how much you see the population density, construction density and population density in the city. This is an example of huge , hidden and nonobvious costs that we are facing. More traffic for more air pollution. Air pollution in our country in a year is close to 20,000 people. In fact , air pollution is the third cause of death in our country. Well, that means cities. It is crowded, dense and polluted. Consider the same traffic in a city of 8 million or 90 million like tehran. Lets say 2 Million People get stuck in traffic for one hour a day. These 2 Million People are your hour. Make a simple multiplication and division. Human life is about 400,500 years. See, these are hidden costs. It is the cities , while we can easily choose from the models that mr. Goranem told me, with the models that are compatible with our environment, our place, our culture, which in my opinion , the above development is very suitable for our culture, our lifestyle , the biological and natural conditions of our country. It is closer and cheaper, he says, and it is cheaper, and of course, with the same costs, if we calculate the direct costs, it is cheaper , if we calculate the indirect costs, it is very cheap. And in my opinion, it can almost be said that it is free compared to the costs that actually exist, mr. Goran, let me give you an explanation, mr. Doctor. You said that it reduces the cost by 25 . Then, in the construction part , if i take these calculations, i personally do not agree with this number, i agree exactly that the high costs of construction will be expensive, and i do not reject the number that we disagree with, but you did not include other costs related to this issue in these calculations. Housing economy in the ministry of housing, we calculated the cost in the think tank. It is almost the same cost of the basement he has not seen the superstructures, he has not seen the infrastructures. If someone has calculated this and has an opinion on the cost of construction, he said there is no problem at all, we accepted it, but the other costs of this building , the price of the land, when you go to an Apartment Unit , for the same 200 m 10 watt apartment , it will certainly be a headache, that is, practically, this cost the cost of the construction is only predicted, regarding the troubles that exist , i have not gone through the costs, so how much will it be, you mean the finished price, how much do you agree that it will be more, but they say not that much, no, i agree, it will be more in the cost only construction, but here the cost of construction has only been brought up. The cost in the roads, in fact, Horizontal Development , the costs will be more terrible. This is wrong. It may be two or three times for a building of one square meter because you have more highways , streets , urban Development Costs from the location. The added value of the reserve lands, which is provided in the same plans that actually happen and the sharia recommendation , is provided by the Business Units that exist there, that is, you seem to be worried instead of the increase in public expenses , for example, the municipality and the government. I think anbusa is worried now for example, these are the government and the municipality. In my opinion , it may not be very logical. By the way, this route can be reached from the same route as the existing routes, and those costs can be compensated, that is, all Business Units are defined there. The above land is actually owned by different builders and is sold and financed, in fact, the costs of urban development that you are experiencing. We have done in the field of housing that we have built so far because we could not manage what you say, we see today. My people, in all the areas that we have built , they are having trouble with these superstructure infrastructure services. How can it be provided . We have to do this before, and this time, the government and the people will definitely have to provide the cost. Now, look, you are definitely the elites. We are the law of the jump in Housing Production. We have it in a box. The law was defined, yes, with a delay of 2 years, but the National Housing fund was created. We have a National Housing fund. Resources come from Different Directions in this fund. To be created, i happen to say before Public Infrastructure and Services Must be created before the structure is built, but the credit will be provided from the National Resources of the National Housing fund, but this compensation will come later. Can this be provided from the land reserves of commercial units and various other things . No, i do not, mr. Doctor. Explain this too. Now, in the past , we have gone in a wrong direction and we are trapped, for example, in the areas of mehr housing, infrastructure has not been created. A wrong path is a historical experience. Lets change the path. We used to have the National Housing fund. Now we can do this from this. Lets provide the way of public expenses and urban development in any case. We agreed that this issue costs money and the cost is borne by the rest of the people who do not pay out of their own pockets. It costs the people, not the people. What do you mean, people . All 85 Million People are spending money on this hair. There are taxes from the place that happen to be from you and producers and mass producers should take this literature, lets see and make it right again. If they do it from the open pockets of the people , dont make a mistake. This presence and cost is on the shoulders of the people. My opinion, no, the cost is not on the shoulders of the people. Public taxes should be in such a way that taxes it should be effective from certain people, we should not tax the general public. This is quite obvious. See how our housing problem is, how the housing problem was created. Now, you are in the field of construction. The price of land in the area of housing construction should be reduced. What can be said about the fact that it is increasing because once there were towers and ramparts around our cities , our cities were dense and the possibility of recommending our cities was less. We have defined a range for the cities up to the border of the city, sir, four floors, five floors, six floors if he wants to build a villa unit outside the city border in my farm and land, we will stop him, that is , these principles and this urban logic, that is, we closed the cities and raised the price of land. I ask mr. Gora a question, sir. You tell me why now the price of land and housing and the inflation of land and housing are higher than the general inflation. You can answer this. Land inflation is higher. Yes , land inflation and housing inflation are higher than the general inflation. Tell me the reason. It should be supplied and the city is not meant to be solved by additions. We have a lot of land problems what does it mean . That is, we have to turn the housing and the house into a commodity for your consumption. If this tax , yes, if we dont have these taxes and if we add land to the city in the same way, in two days, the same disasters will be repeated in the same areas and the same problems. It means a set of taxes, regulation and market control, along with land supply, is the solution to our urban problems. Let me give you a simple example, sir. Look, now you dont have anyone going , for example, i dont remember. Next month, next year, this is going to be expensive because you can take a Consumer Product or, for example, shoes as an example, but now land and housing are capital goods , these taxes will make land and housing go out of the capital state, and those who want to save will have an increase in the value of their capital. No housing, yes, the supply of land along with effective taxes should be taken from the appropriate target group so that our market becomes a balanced, logical and fair market for the benefit of the people. So, mr. Goran, are you satisfied with the costs . You see, i was not convinced about the costs and i have a number that may not be in this meeting, but the number is that the price is in you are a simple number, you are in 200 meters of your land , mr. Doctor says that it doesnt matter if someone else provides it, this someone else pays for it, and the rest of the people in this fund are sure where the money comes from. Ok, other people have money. Now, regarding the support of the way of working, i mean this is our solution , mr. Doctor, that in our opinion, we are not in favor of Horizontal Development , we are not in favor of vertical development. What is the Development View of the different faces of the land cap . On the ground as you say, the horizontal expansion of the villa is about 6,000 and the vertical expansion is 35,000. You can see that the price of the land has an effect on the price of the apartment. The game market has land. This is available in both. You can be sure that when you develop an urban development in another place, it will happen to an urban annexation. There are other peoples lands, so let them use them and annex the lands again. We have the past experience of rome, where we handed over the lands in 200meter sections, built with two floors after 10 we gave them apartments because we couldnt manage the demand, no, look, we didnt have a regular supply, proper policy, and proper planning. Look, apart from this, now its an economic issue. Look, we have a series of city governors who are the greatest in the world. Mr. Gora, we just checked that the density of people per hectare is correct for habitation. It is different from city to city, province to province, country to country, but there is a tolerance and there is a gap. For example, in america, the density of people per hectare is 12 people, in australia it is 15 people. There are 26 people in germany , not 40 in japan, but in iran there are 70 people in hectare, that is, in the national scale, the same is true for you and us. Goran, when we have massification and high Level Construction, we make these conditions worse. Now, the per Capita Services in our cities are rarely at the level of the governor. I examined the city of tehran a few years ago in my doctoral thesis, none of our per capita uses are at the standard level. We must decongest our cities and towns, especially our big ones, that is, bring the density down, and this is through horizontal redevelopment and i would like to tell you that land supply and lowrise and low classification will happen at the time of statistics that mr. Goran we mentioned 23,000 people, 6,000 people horizontally or 35,000 people in your vertical development. This means that you are in favor of vertical development, thats right, in any case, based on that, it will be for 35 thousand people , it will be 6 thousand people, according to the parameters that i checked, it is economical. See, i checked these statistics and standards, it shows that our situation is inappropriate. And you, when we defend the vertical development of the city, the social and cultural damage will multiply, and the Current Situation will get worse. We have to go slowly. Our city has a higher population density more building density with highrise buildings and highrise buildings. We should not multiply our problems. In your opinion, mr. Goran, in addition to the things we have just mentioned, if you still do not agree on the number of people per hectare, what other problems are on the way . The development of the horizon of your presence , you can see the Horizontal Development of the cities. Let me tell you that the expansion of the horizon that has urban sprawl and the rapid increase in the use of urban land is serious for us. Among the disappearance of agricultural and garden lands and Natural Resources around the cities, the reliance of urban families on cars and the increase in energy consumption, etc. , urban defenselessness due to loneliness, the increase in the cost of living for citizens, the reduction of social connections, and identity changes in urban life. It is an item that, in general, with its development, there are disadvantages of horizontal growth, and we must consider these disadvantages. If a city needs, which is possible, and has cheap land , it can be developed. For these points that you have said, now i will go to the positions where these things are mentioned, see a discussion of a horizontal recommendation. Now , i did not understand the basis of these points that mr. Goran said, that from the context of Agricultural Land, it is quite obvious that i want to build a house, that i do not go in or i want residential development. Urban development for housing wants to happen. Urban development , i dont know , should i do it on firstclass agricultural fields and 2 shares. In fact, land use studies in our country say that 15 of irans vast land is for the construction of human settlements, both from villages and cities. How much have we used now, only 1 of the total now lets sum up our villages and cities. We have occupied less than one percent of the countrys area. Look , its an emergency situation. There is a time when there are 3 of us here and a cup of water is here. We say yes to this cup of water. Each of us should take a sip. If we drink it, our thirst will be quenched, but when we drink 3 glasses of water each, we will all be thirsty. What does this mean . What does our selfimposed sanctions mean . All this land in our country is 15 inhabitable and buildable. We are satisfied with 1 . This is 2 of the total 15 if it is given to every iranian that is, lets separate and give each iranian person 500 meters of land, it doesnt even reach a percentage, which means we dont have a land problem. Lets go, mr. Goran , in my own country, my people can see that in these cities, you dont accept the waste of land, no , no, look, the land is for the inhabitants, they say that we should leave the land for our generation. With psychological injuries and social injuries with numerous problems, then leave the land for the future generations. Yes, it should be intergenerational justice. By the way, we now live in iran if the people they have now live in iran. Our land let us understand that this generation will provide healthier and more rational Living Conditions for the future generations. We should not destroy the current generation. Lets say that you live in a strong apartment with a cage and suffer from all kinds of social and psychological damages. The woman will suffer from neurosis so that later , for example, we will leave the ground for your new result. This is not logical at all. We say yes, according to the residential capacity of iran. I once said it was an emergency. We dont have land somewhere, for example, in the north of the country, i dont know, there is a lot of Agricultural Land, for example, in kurdistan, or in the cities that are surrounded by mountains, for example. We have limited land, yes, it is necessary to build a highlevel building , but where we have no problem now in the villages , unfortunately, we removed this Boundary Line in the villages as well. The same line the one who is worried about the Agricultural Land in that village is more worried about the land than you and i. In fact , it is his own agriculture. We made a mistake in 5060 years we started in the past and we are still continuing this wrong policy. Of course , thank god, good things have happened in the last 34 years. Good things have happened in this parliament. The law of Housing Production surge was also a good thing for the government, which now has a part of its approach to the horizon. And the Horizontal Development of cities and the construction of villas, these are good events, it means that a change of approach is happening. In my opinion , the dear ones who are in the field of construction and are active in this field should accompany this approach