choices, too. hamas could immediately release all of the hostages it holds. it could stop using civilians as human shields and stop using civilian infrastructure to stage and launch terrorist attacks. hamas could lay down its arms. surrender the leaders that are responsible for the slaughter, the torture, the rapes of october 7th. hamas could renounce its stated goal of eliminating israel, killing jews and repeating the atrocities of october 7th again and again and again. meanwhile, every one around the world that cares about protecting innocent civilians, innocent lives should be calling on hamas indeed demanding of hamas that it immediately stop its murderous acts of terror and deplorable innocent use of men and women as shields. in our meetings with israeli leaders here and jerusalem and palestinian leaders in ramallah, we discussed our continued focus on preventing the conflict from spreading whether to the west bank, to israel's northern barreder or to the broader region. i raised our deep concerns about steps that could escalate tensions in the west bank including extremist settler violence and proposals from parts of the israeli coalition government to further expand settlements. i made clear our expectations about addressing these issues. we also focused on what we can, what we must do now to prepare for the day after the conflict. to create the conditions for a durable and lasting peace, building on the principals that i set out during the g-7 in tokyo. breaking out of the cycle of violence, cycle of conflict, ensuring israel's enduring security, demands improving the lives of palestinians in gaza in the west bank in immediate and tangible ways and providing them with an incredible path to their aspiration for statehood. ongoing conversations with palestinian and arab leaders, discuss practical steps to make real a just and lasting peace. and what each of us is prepared to do to help achieve it. we have no illusions this is going to be easy. we will surely have disagreements along the way. if we're going to move forward on practical steps to lasting peace, lasting security, we have to be willing to work through these disagreements because the alternative more terrorist attacks, more violence, more innocent suffering is unacceptable. that's why the united states is here and we're leading toward this goal. with that, happy to take some questions. >> the first question goes to reuters. >> hello, mr. secretary. >> good evening. >> you've just said the u.s. is urging israel to ensure the protection of civilians before starting its operations in southern gaza. i'm wondering, you've talked about what you made clear to prime minister netanyahu and the war cabinet. what concrete and specific assurances have you gotten from them, if any, based on what you heard from them today? are you confident israel will follow the international laws of war and southern gaza when it resumes its military operations? my second question is, you and others in the administration have repeatedly said that united states wants to see a revitalized palestinian authority to rule gaza and the west bank. sir, could you tell us what exactly the u.s. vision is for a revitalized p.a. and does it include a reshuffle in the leadership? >> thanks. so as i said, we made clear the imperative that before any operations go forward in southern gaza that there be a clear plan in place that puts a premium on protecting civilians and sustaining and building on the humanitarian assistance it is getting in to gaza. and the israel government agreed with that approach. there are concrete steps that it's not appropriate for me to detail here tonight that we know and we heard can make -- ensure to the best of anyone's ability that that happens. it's obviously challenging given the particular conditions that israel has to deal with in getting to hamas and making sure, again, that it can't represent the threat that it posed on october 7th. but again, israel understands the imperative of protecting civilians, the imperative of humanitarian assistance and will continue to work that that carries forward in practice. again, as i said to the prime minister, to the war cabinet, intent is where you start. it's vitally important. i'm very confident in the intent but results, of course, are fundamentally what matters. with regard to the palestinian authority, we've said and indeed i had an opportunity to discuss today with president abbas the need for reform, the need to revitalize, to revamp the palestinian authority so that it can most effectively meet the aspirations of the palestinian people and deliver for them. there are a number of things that go into that including, for example, reforming so that it more effectively combats corruption, that it supports free press and open media and a number of other things. leadership choices, these are obvious up to the palestinian people. and palestinians themselves. but there are a number of things that we think would be critical to making sure that, again, the palestinian authority can be effective in helping to advance the aspirations and the needs of its people. >> secretary blinken, reportedly there are disagreements between you and the israeli government about the way forward regarding the timetable. >> sandra: is there a time limit from the u.s. point of view on the operation, on the continuation of the operation in gaza? another question, there's about 140 hostages still left in gaza. many of them are reportedly severely injured. yet the red cross has not visited them. can you clarify if this was included in the agreement and if it was, why isn't it being implemented and why is israel pressured to continue to expand the humanitarian assistance to gaza while hamas does not let humanitarian access to our hostages? >> thank you. first part of the question, we support continue to support and will continue to support israel's efforts to do everything possible to ensure that hamas cannot repeat the horrors of october 7th. that means among other things that hamas cannot remain responsible for governance in gaza and it cannot retain the capacity to repeat those attacks. how israel does it, those are decisions for israel to make. as i've said, we also believe it's very important that in engaging in that effort, the way it does matters makes a big difference. as we just discussed, the imperative of putting a premium on protecting civilians and ensuring humanitarian assistance flows in to gaza is something that is vital to us and something that the israeli government agrees with. on the hostages, i am not going to get into any negotiations or any agreements. but clearly it would be beneficial and important for the red cross to have access to the hostages, to be able to check on their well-being and condition. having said that, of course, none of that should be necessary because there shouldn't be any hostages in the first place. that horrific part of what hamas did on october 7th something that we are dealing with now every single day. the positive development, as i said, were now completing the seventh day where hostages have been returned to their families. and that's a very positive and powerful thing. something that we want to see continue. hamas should release everyone right now. in the absence of doing that and as this process i hope continues, yes it would be very good for the red cross to have access and to see them. the question of humanitarian assistance is something fully apart from hamas or the hostages because this is about innocent men, women and children in gaza. not hamas that need the aid, that desperately need the help. conditions in gaza are very, very difficult and severe. and the need for the most basic things, for food, for water, for medicine, for fuel to make sure that people can have clean water, they can have sewage systems that work, that's absolutely essential and imperative. as i said earlier, particularly as we head in to winter, we're already seeing the potential for disease outbreaks because for example, the lack of potable drinking water. so this is an imperative, an imperative because it's the right thing to do, it's an imperative because it's the necessary thing to do. again, i come away convinced with my discussions with the israeli government that they fully not only understand that, but believe that andwill act on it. >> thank you, mr. secretary. i know it's been a long day. apologies for the bundle of questions. hamas is believed to have released the vast number of women and children that were in its captivity. so what assurances, if any, do you have that hamas might be open to releasing male hostages? on the flip side, is israeli prepared to agree to the conditions? president biden has signalled that the u.s. prepared to issue bans on status. in indiana, federal prosecutors charged an indian national in a murder for hire scheme in new york. according to the indictment, the assassination plot was organized by an indian official. canada's prime minister said the indian government was involved in a murder on canadian soil. are you worried about india silencing critics around the world? >> thanks. three. not bad. nice and concise. so on the release of more hostages. look, i can't speak to hamas' views or its intentions. i can tell you for the united states, for israel, for other countries that have their citizens being held captive by hamas, clearly we want to see this process continue, move forward. we want an eighth day and beyond. so that people can be returned to their families. that applies to all hostages, whatever category they may happen to be in. but it's also up to hamas. again, i can't speak to their intentions. i can say that i think this process has clearly been beneficial and the fact that so many have now been reunited with their luhansked ones and families is something that we i think take joy in. a lot of unfinished business. we're determined to finish it when it comes to bringing the hostages home. with regard to extremist violence. all i can tell you is this. we're looking to the israeli government to take some additional steps to fully put a stop to this. at the same time, we're considering our own steps. finally with regard to india, first, this is an ongoing legal matter. so you'll understand i can't comment on it in detail. i can say that this is something that we take very seriously. a number of us have raised this directly with the indian government in past weeks. the government announced today that it was conducting an investigation and that's good and appropriate and we look forward to seeing the results. >> the final question goes to kassam. >> good evening, secretary. lots of discussion are going on about revamping the palestinian authority leadership. do you consider that via free, fair election in gaza, jerusalem and west bank? >> so first, as a matter of basic principal, we support free and fair elections around the world including, of course, for palestinians. they should have a right to choose their own leaders. the way to do it is through free and fair elections. but that has to be a process. and it's something that we need to be talking about as we move from the conflict to as we have been calling at this time day after. looking at what needs to happen in gaza as well as the west bank and starting in gaza particularly with regard to things like governance, like security, like rebuilding. part of that discussion needs to be about elections. again, it's a process and it's something that work needs to go into in the time ahead. >> [inaudible]. >> again, we're focuses right now on gaza and what we need to see happen in gaza to make sure that there is governance that is different from what it has right now, which is hamas, that it has security, that it has rebuilding. all of those things are what we're focused on and need to be focused on. as part of that discussion, we'll obviously look at the question of elections and when and how palestinians are able to choose their leaders. thank you. >> thanks, everyone. have a good evening. >> martha: okay. secretary of state antony blinken back in the middle east today. he met with israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu who has said that israel will eventually to back to fighting in the gaza strip. he says that will be what is -- that will be underway until the end. we know that that means the end of hamas. so the balance between this fight and the effort to release hostages is shaky but it's been ongoing for seven days and it has continued today. today two more israeli women are out of gaza. you likely remember the face and the eyes of these young women this 21-year-old is the first image. that's mia. she was taken from the super nova music festival. she was shown in a hostage video with an injury to her arm where she said that hamas was taking care of her. it was a terrifying video for her family but they at least learned -- this is so rare in this situation. we have not seen a lot of hostage videos here. we all remember watching that and her mother did and interview with mike tobin. she pleaded for her daughter's safe return. >> you can't take a child, an innocent child that went to a festival to have some fun and to shoot her and to drag her and to scare her and god knows what else. >> martha: this is mia being embraced by her mom and her brother just a short time ago. she was held by these terrorists likely in their tunnels for over 50 days. now she begins the long road to safety and recovery. her mom was a fierce campaigner for the release of her daughter. we'll show you the video, which is so heart rendering. it's the story of these happy families in many ways. there's happiness mixed with so much tragedy in what has happened to these families. we'll show you this video in it's entirety in just a moment of their incredible reunion that just happened a little while ago today. with that we bring in neil ferguson, from the hoover institution at stanford university and senior faculty member of harvard. thanks for being here. >> great to be with you. >> you have written a lot about world affairs, and history, about the movement and the shifts that happen over the course of history. we're watching a lot of that play out now. you also wrote a very well-received autobiography from henry kissinger that passed away at the age of 100 yesterday. he was a master diplomat with and extensive history in the nixon and ford administrations and well-beyond that as a statesman and adviser. when you listen to secretary of state blinken try to navigate what's going on right now, what goes through your mind, neil? >> one thing i learned from henry kissinger is you don't know what the secretary of state knows. professors should be circumscept about criticizing people in office. having said that, i can't help by contrast henry kissinger's role 50 years ago when israel was attacked by syria and egypt with the role that secretary blinken is playing today. secretary blinken seems to spend a lot of time shuttling to israel to tell israel to lay off. whereas henry kissingershuttled all around the middle east. he was in syria, egypt, israel, jordan, saudi arabia, went to moscow during the 1972 crisis to make sure that u.s. power was asserted throughout the region and the other thing that is really striking about the role that kissinger played, he understood the terrorists well. he made it clear to all the different combatants that while the united states have stood behind israel and willing to supply with the arms and aid it needed to prevail, it was also willing to threaten -- take military action, if for example, russia sought to intervene on the arab side against israel. what i missed in u.s. foreign policy since october 7th is a much clearer statement to iran that the united states reserves the right to take military against against iran if its proxies continue to threaten israel. i'd like to hear more of that from secretary blinken and less advice to israel about how to go about dealing with the terrorists in gaza. >> martha: it is very interesting to look back at kissinger work during the yom kippur war. he went back and forth. at times counselled them to be cautious in some of their response, in some of their moves. so some of that we see today as well. it interesting when you listen to secretary of state blinken talk about the day after. and i guess that points to a moment when hamas is eliminated, which we know is israel's goal. but it's hard to imagine having that conversation as you just all alluded to without dealing with the root of the problem. won't iran continue to supply and give fortitude to hamas one way or the other in that region, niall? >> hamas or any organization that pledges to carry on its bloody work, a key to the situation we're in now in my view is the biden administration decided to resuscitate the dead iran nuclear deal and has been pursuing a policy that at times has verged on appeasement of iran in mark contrast to the tougher line that the trump administration took. the trump administration was harder on iran, put them under greater economic pressure and more importantly prioritized improving relationships between israel and the arab counties. they produced the abraham accords. i never understood why the biden administration decided to junk it and try to dig up, exhume and resuscitate the iran nuclear deal. one consequence was to ease the financial pressure on iran. guess what they did with those resources? that's right. it armed the likes of palestinian islamic jihad. it has continued to pursue all kinds of nefarious activities in the middle east, arming all kinds of proxies. i don't really get why the biden administration tip toes around this. why at the outset of the crisis in october it decided to act like iran wasn't directly involved in the attacks on israel. all of this seems to be in mark contrast with the star that henry kissinger in his hay day had, which is to make sure that everybody knew that if united states was ready if necessary, to use force to ensure that the threat to israel did not become existential. he was willing to go to defcon 3 at the time of the yom kippur war. sent a signal to moscow and they got the message. consistently not only with respect to israel but with respect to ukraine, the biden administration is not being effective. if henry kissinger were still with us, i think he would be inclined to agree. >> martha: great to have you with us today, niall. thank you. >> thank you. >> let's go live to tel aviv. mark regev. good to have you back with us. you hear antony blinken talking about the day after. can you eliminate hamas or whoever could supplant or replace them or be the new hamas if the united states doesn't directly send a very strong signal to iran? are you disappointed that this administration is not speaking more forcefully about the role of iran? >> so its clear, martha, there's an axis of evil. the head of the octopus, if we can use that metaphor, is in iran. and the octopus has tentacles. there's the houthis in yemen, there's hezbollah in lebanon and there's hamas in gaza. if we succeed and we will, in defeating hamas in gaza, that's one of the tentacles that has been cut. and that will put the whole axis of terror in a weaker position and they'll be playing defense. >> in terms of what we just heard, antony blinken didn't mention iran, ambassador. why not? >> well, that you have to ask him. it's clear to me and to the government of israel and i think to the people of israel that hamas wouldn't be the force it is today without iranian support. you know, iran funds 93 percent of hamas's military budget. they receive weapons, they receive training. their sister organization in lebanon, hezbollah, both hamas and hezbollah are part of iran's axis of terror. >> martha: we don't hear that from the white house. that's why i am asking -- i don't know how you can eliminate hamas if you don't get to the root of what is driving hamas. what is the saudi relationship with israel right now? >> obviously we're talking behind the scenes to arab leaders across the middle east. i can tell you and i don't think it's a big secret, martha, there's not a lot of tears shed in the arab world for hamas on the country. i think there's a perception across the arab world that hamas is not good for palestinians, hamas is not good for the arabs and hamas is doing iran's work. iran is not very popular across the arab world. what we've seen as ferguson said, you've got a situation in the middle east where you've had more and more peace, more and more cooperation. the abraham accords, president biden was about to negotiate a normalization agreement between israel and saudi arabia. those most people on this planet will embrace and welcome arab israeli peace for iran and for hamas, peace is a existential threat because they want to take us back to the dark years of conflict. we want to move forward. i think when we have defeated hamas, and we will, when hamas no longer runs the gaza strip, when they're thrown out of power, when they're no longer the force that they are today, the vacuum created will create space for more moderates and more pragmatic voices. that will be good for peace in the middle east. >> martha: thanks, ambassador. good to keep up with you. thanks very much. >> my pleasure. >> martha: so it was an emotional reunion today. the girl that you see in the middle of that picture is mia. she's 21 years old. she was kidnapped from the super nova music festival and then paraded around in a horrific hamas hostage video last month. watch her mother and brother's reaction as they are reunited with mia more than 50 days later back on israeli soil. watch this. [crying]. >> martha: if those cries don't go right through you between a mother and a daughter who have been reunited. just listen to that. i think it spikes for so many of these families and what they have been going through. she was one of two female hostages that were released today. the other women was a 40-year-old on the right-hand side of your screen. god only knows what these two women have been through. but they're now in safety and no doubt their recovery will be long, but we hope and pray they're surrounded by their families. douglas murray, fox news contributor and national institute fellow has been on the ground for several weeks covering these stories. he joins me now from tel aviv. douglas, it's really -- we all i think followed mia's story and there's so many of these stories. but to see her -- you talk about these hostages when you see images of them in the transport vehicles. they all look aged by what they have been through, douglas. >> yes. and of course, as i have pointed out, a number of venues, the problem is that hamas is playing not a clever but a cunning game. it's not only reneging on its agreements. this morning's hostages, just 50 minutes before the cease fire was meant to end, they finally handed over the names of the next batch of hostages and they're keeping hostages back who are family members of the ones released. in other words, they're continuing the water torture of these families by making sure that if they know they were to say something or do anything to upset hamas, their family member or loved one might be at a greater risk themselves. this whole process is torture for israelis. in the immediate aftermath of october 7, many people assumed that everyone who got in to gaza would be dead. it was worse than death. and then hamas throughout to realize the enormous worth from their point of view of having these hostages. they have managed to stop the israeli's carrying out military actions to destroy hamas by eeking out these hostages day by day, every day they do some trick. every day they do something to further disappoint the families. hamas, of course, are doing that in the hope that there will be a wind down of the conflict. i was very disturbed by what secretary blinken said in that press conference that he just showed us. there seems to be so little awareness outside of israel of the following very basic fact. israel cannot live beside hamas. it cannot live beside hamas. it can't live by side this hamas or hamas 2.0 or anything else. no leftist israeli believes that they can live beside hamas. so hamas has to be destroyed and the israeli government has said that is its principal war aim. but of course, at the same time, they are having to negotiate for these precious hostages. as you know, too few of the media do know, each of these children and young people is being swapped for three people in israeli prisons who are stabbers, murderers, bomb carriers. one woman was released for trying to kill her jewish neighbor. she was just released and gone back to her home. >> that's obviously terrifying for the people who live in those areas. and understand the threat that these people pose. you're right. cunning is a good word for the way they're carrying this out. they knew exactly what they were doing. they have a lot to work with and a lot of people that are the other half of families and couples that have been released. so this story is far from over. douglas, your coverage has been excellent. we thank you very much for covering it for us on the front lines. good to see you, douglas. >> thank you. it's a pleasure. >> martha: so one year after a story that we covered in great detail about the twitter files when they were made public, journalistic matt tybee is back. what you are allowed to see or not see in the places that you engage in social media. he says they say today, that that was just the tip of the iceberg. >> i regret to inform the subcommittee that the scope, power and law breaking of the social media complex are worse than we realized back in march. i want another option that's not another drop. tyrvaya. it's not another drop. it's the first and only nasal spray for dry eye. tyrvaya treats the signs and symptoms of dry eye disease fast by helping your body produce its own real tears. common side effects include sneezing, cough, and throat and nose irritation. relying only on drops? 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>> it's not clear right now. what is clear that there's a huge disconnect between the republican donor class and the voters. the donor class has moved on from donald trump. they want another nominee. national polls show trump with a huge lead over anybody else in the national race. but the single most important thing to remember about the race is that it's a two track race. on one track, all by himself is donald trump way ahead of everybody else and on the other track is ron desantis and nikki haley fighting it out to see who might challenge trump down the line. >> martha: and desantis tonight, hogan, has an opportunity to change the game for himself. he has had a campaign so far that has not taken off the way a lot of people expected it would. what are you looking for tonight? >> it's going to be interesting. they'll have the stage to themselves. it's going to be an argument on republican governance versus democratic governance. it's no secret about gavin newsome. if joe biden were to stumble, he's there to scoop up some of that support. someone like ron desantis who is trying to get some of that oxygen that is sucked out of this race by donald trump is using a moment like this to say watch me debate someone that could be the nominee for the left. watch me take him on and watch me beat them. it's going to be an interesting moment for fox news and the american people. debates are about creating a moment and building momentum and making that in to a movement. will he be able to do that from this debate stage without donald trump on it? that remains to be seen. it's a good opportunity for both men. >> martha: it's a head-to-head that we haven't seen. the process so far in terms of philosophy, democrats versus republican. there is potential here for ron desantis to make a move tonight. >> absolutely. it's a huge opportunity. because when republicans watch a republican debate, you know, a large republican audience is divided between the candidates. some favor haley, some trump, some for desantis. they're divided. when they watch ron desantis debating newsome, they're for desantis. they're for the republican, this is a really huge opportunity for desantis who really needs it because he's been sliding for quite a long time in the polls and haley has taken a dominant position in new hampshire and south carolina. so ron desantis really needs this. >> martha: go ahead, hogan. >> nikki was my brother. the koch brothers endorsement used to be powerful. now it's painful. it's making her a pariah. they don't embrace that. she's going to have a tough time in iowa. she's not going to win iowa or south carolina. she's got problems as well. byron is right. trump is way out front at this point. >> martha: we'll be watching. thanks, gentlemen. thank you. so there's been a lot of talk this week and we were just talking about it about nikki haley and the fire that she's catching in some parts of the electorate. so we'll speak with her tomorrow. we'll get her thoughts on what happens tonight between desantis and newsome. nikki haley will join us at 3:00 eastern on "the story." and in washington today, more stunning new testimony. this was a sleeper story. you volunteer to hear what has happened in this room from these two journalists that dropped the twitter files. they dig in to government and big tech and how it works to influence you to keep certain things from you, to censor american thought. watch. >> the question is was the government involved and engaged in censoring speech leading up to the 2020 election? 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>> the most alarming thing is the regular stream organized stream of communication between the fbi, the department of homeland security and the largest tech companies in the country. they had an organized system for flagging content. not occasionally but in enormous numbers that ran to the hundreds of thousands. >> are you suggesting the "new york post" was in part of a conspiracy on the hunter biden lab top? >> no hard drives can be -- >> what is the evidence if that happens? >> there is evidence of it. the point is that -- >> there's no evidence of that. >> so you're engaged in a conspiracy. >> i'm glad you agree with me that transparency is the most important thing. >> martha: the second time we've seen congressman goldman run into problems when he explained his thinking on the hunter biden situation. let's bring in jonathan turnery, g.b. law professor and fox news contributor. he testified at the first twitter files hearing in march. what about what we heard in there today, jonathan? what stands out? >> you know, martha, i think the most alarming aspect of the hearing is not the massive amount of evidence but the degree of denial from democrats that i have opposed every effort to investigate and oppose this system. at the hearing today, you see this worldly denial. you have thousands of pages now in the record. you have a judge that described this as an unprecedented censorship system and called it orwellian. all of the democrats say there's no evidence of this existing. unfortunately it's working. a record number of democrats that now support censorship. the party has changed. so what you're seeing in that hearing room is a fight over the identity of this country. you know, we're defined by free speech. you're seeing it now play out as we fight over what this central right will be protected. >> martha: the idea and we've heard elon musk talk about and i want to get to him. there should be a free speech town hall, that that was the idea behind social media. i want to put this tweet up from barry weiss that was also involved in going through the twitter files and finding the connection between government, the fbi and the social media companies in terms of what they would allow and wouldn't during covid. here's one example. she said stanford's dr. jay argued that covid lockdowns would harm children. twitter secretly placed him on a trends black list, which prevented his tweets from trending. jonathan, he wrote pieces for the "wall street journal," wrote pieces that surfaced in a lot of places. they tried to lock his thought process and opinions on this down. sadly for children across america, we're learning now that he was right about the harmses that have befallen them that they're still trying to unravel. >> yeah, i talked to him. the level of coercion and retaliation against him and his other colleagues is really alarming. many of these people were thrown off academic institutions, associations. they were right. as you have the u.s. government and academia combining to silence people that turned out to be correct on masks, the origins of covid, the effect on children. these were the voices that were trying to tell the public we need to look at this and they were banned and black lists by the same people that we're hearing from today, the same poll situations that defended that, were attacking the witnesses today. >> martha: there was a demand for conformity that blew apart a hot of things that we hold dear. people should hear about what he's righting and think acted it and make choices on how they want to live their lives based on the input of all of these great thinkers across the country and not being locked down away from them. i want to play this from elon musk. he spoke out in a forceful way with forceful language as well when he sat down at the "new york times" forum yesterday. here's part of what he said. watch this. >> there was advertisers -- >> stop. don't advertise. >> you don't want them to advertise? >> no. >> what do you mean? >> if somebody is going to try to blackmail me with advertising or money, go [bleep] yourself. go [bleep] yourself. is that clear? i hope it is. >> martha: i mean, he called out bob iger. he's been shut down on something that he retweeted that was anti-semitic on his own x formally twitter. he also said i thought it was very interesting, there's a real weakness in wanting to be liked. i don't have that says elon musk. what do you make of that? >> well, you have to keep in mind that this effort to block advertisers has existed since he took over the company and promised to restore free speech principles. there was a huge movement based on his plan to restore free speech. the reason he's hated is because of what you just saw. he has a lot of damn money. the usual techniques that work to get people to knuckle under don't work with musk. that makes him a menace to the anti-free speech movement. they would prefer to kill that company than allow it to be the rogue that allows greater free speech on that forum. >> martha: he's always -- he's a fascinating person to watch. he's sort of like a howard hughs character, eccentric. he does whatever he thinks that works for him and his company. he's not afraid to fail. he said i made a bunch of mistakes but i'm sorry about reposting that one post. the people that felt protected and loved by twitter now hate it and want it to die. jonathan? >> yeah, people need to understand what happened at twitter was a game-changer for free speech. all of these other social media companies are still fighting congress in revealing the level of coordination with the government. it was twitter that blew this open because of what musk did. for that reason, the free speech community will always owe him a debt of great gratitude. he changed the entire course of the free speech movement. we were losing ground across the field. when he opened up the twitter files, these democrats could keep on denying that censorship existed, but many of the public saw it for what it was. the most comprehensive censorship system in the history of this country. much of it still exists. >> martha: it's interesting what we're seeing on tik tok. we've the been digging into and reporters have been looking at the effort that is underway from the biden campaign to have a presence on tik tok. the vice president was asked acted what she thinks, whether tik tok is good or bad influence on the country. she side stepped it because it's obviously a core factor in the biden campaign. on that particular social media, there's no attempt to sort of explain anything or put content modification. you can say whatever you want, whether it's truthful or not about the supreme court abortion decision, for example, and it just goes out there with absolutely no parameters. that seems to be something that they're liking, at least in the campaign environment. what do you think about that? >> no, you can choke on the bias here and hypocrisy. there's no complaint about tik tok. there's no complaint about all of that censorship, what turned out to be true warnings about covid. they focus on attacking musk. he's a danger. they can't really intimidate him. you saw that in that quote. >> martha: thanks, jonathan. always good to have you. >> thank you, martha. >> martha: we've been watching this as well. moments ago, the house debated a resolution to expel george santos after the ethics committee found he spent campaign donations on himself including designer clothes and botox. that's a no-no. santos is also facing criminal charges and has pled not guilty. a vote is expected tomorrow on that and we will keep you posted. also, i spoke with half baked harvest chef and entrepreneur. that will drop tomorrow on the podcast. see you tomorrow. have a great day, everybody. >> neil: the hostage exchange continuebu