Rightwing extremist groups, and of course there was some of that, but a large number were simply ordinary working people who see their livelihoods slipping away. Theyve lost jobs, income and in some cases hope for the future. Theyre scared. A few states are responding to the demands. Florida and South Carolina opened some of their beaches. Texas is now allowing retail to go curb curbside pickups. Georgias governor brian kent went further allowing nonessential businesses to given operations. To begin operations. But the pressure for continuing to keep the economy shut remains. Even President Trump came out against georgias governor. I disagree strongly with his decision to open certain facilities which are in violation of the phase one guidelines for the incredible people of georgia. Finish i think its too soon. Gerry now, moving too fast certainly does risk the spread of the disease weve been working hard to stop, but perhaps this lockdown wasnt really necessary at all. In sweden, which which has so fr resisted lockdown, theres been intriguing ed that they have not fared any worse than those of us who have shut down more or less completely. And later in the program, ill be interviewing the swede you should foreign minister to try to understand what we might if learn from them. But first, lets look at how the u. S. Has responded so far. More than a decade ago president george w. Bush was warned about the risks of a pandemic. He set about creating a plan to deal with just such a crisis. What happened . Michael leavitt was the health and Human Services secretary under the president bush and instrumental in preparing those plans. He was also head of the epa, governor of utah and cofounder of left visit partners which advises partners on how to maximize health care strategies. Governor leavitt, thank you very much indeed, for joining me. Thank you. Pleasure to join you. Gerry lets start the with what president bush said. He said and i quote, if we wait for a pandemic to appear, it will be too late to prepare. And one day many lives could be needlessly lost because we failed to act today. Did we learn the lessons of what president bush so presciently spelled out there . I think its clear that we did not and truthfully, most other generations have not learned them either. I spent three and a half years working to develop and a plan and to bin to enlouvren the concerns of the endeliverren endeliverren enliven, and i learned an important lesson. Anything you say in advance of a pandemic sounds alarmist. Anything youve done after it starts is inadequate. Thats an important lesson that every generation needs to learn are. Pandemics happen, theyre biologic fact, but they happen infrequently enough that every generation seems to forget. Gerry well, perhaps what could we have done differently . Again, from your experience, could we have prepared more for testing, more prepared to have the kind of medical equipment we needed . Those are all lesson that we as well as other generations have learned. Yes, we can be better prepared. And the good thing about preparing for a pandemic is that it prepares us for all kinds of different emergencies. Its essentially the same kind of preparation you would make for a terrorist event, an earthquake, a weather disaster. This is not just about pandemic preparedness, its about preparedness in general. Gerry the response we have taken, obviously, essentially when the coronavirus hit was to go into a kind of lockdown. Most states have imposed sometimes enforceable by law shutdowns of schools, businesses, restaurants, bars, Economic Activity has come to a halt this much of the country. We cant carry on doing that for much longer without risking real longterm damage to the economy, can we . I think thats evident to all of us. Its a dilemma. We know we have a Health Disaster on our hands potentially, and we know well have an Economic Disaster if we continue to do the only thing we have which is social distancing. This is not a shortterm problem either. Its likely one that were going to have to learn to manage. Its not one we will resolve in the near term. Gerry but what would you do . I mean, some states are pushing to reopen, weve seen that this week. Some places around the world are starting to reopen. What would you do if you were still there in government now, what would you be ad vising the president and states to do . A metaphor is helpful here. Think of a frozen lake, and we have to cross it. We dont know exactly how thick the ice is. How do wees cross . We take a few steps is and we pause, and we listen for cracking sounds. If we dont hear them, we move forward. Now, the dilemma, of course, the further into the middle of the lake that you get, the more dangerous it becomes because theres no turning back. Were in a similar situation. Were now starting to walk across the frozen lake, and were listening carefully for cracking sounds, and well have to make decisions as we go. Theres no single formula here. Were going to learn as we go, were going to learn from each other, and were going to figure this out. You mentioned the swedish government. Were going to learn some things from them. I think well learn some things from other countries. Well learn from other states. Gerry what do you think, do you think we will what kind of measures will that take . Will certain one key is obviously testing, and we find out more and more people who maybe have antibodies to the virus, who maybe already have it or lower risk, they could go back to work. Is that one way to move forward . Yes, it is. Its clearly going to be part of any solution. Obviously, there are dilemmas with our testing not just in our execution, but the tests themselves have not proven to be totally accurate, and were going to have to refine and improve that. The truth is were likely to struggle a bit as we work through this transition during what we will refer to as the first wave. Pan denialics almost always have a second or a third wave, and theres biology behind that. This is not something that we choose, its just the reality were dealing with. And we can be better prepared for a second wave or a third wave and make certain that we have our testing in line. We can have stockpiles, we can have protocols, we can know what to do in terms of how we what the most e ways of social distancing will be. The reality is until we have a vaccine and we have the capacity to create immunity in a controlled way new vaccines, this is, these are the tools we have. Gerry one final question, governor, because were almost out of time. I want to ask you about china. Theres been a lot of criticism, understandably, this thing started in china, china clearly didnt behave in a way that was very open and transparent. Do you think theres going to be a reckoning . Do you think once this is over we need to really look very hard at our relationship with china . One thing that every pandemic has in common and that is for decades after there was debate, argument and accusation among parties about who started it, where it came from, and the reality is well likely never know. Our relationship economically with china is a complex one and one thats complicated by this situation. But ultimately, it will not be the determinant of our relationship, nor should it be. Gerri my thanks to former governor michael leavitt. Just ahead, sweden has been operating without a lockdown since the outbreak began. How is that working out . Ill ask the countrys foreign minister next. Stay with us. In these uncertain times, look after yourself, your family, your friends. But know when it comes to your finances, we are here for you. What can i do for you today . Well take a look at the portfolio and make adjustments. Im free to chat if you have any more questions. Our j. P. Morgan advisors are working from home to help guide you through this. For more than 200 years, weve helped our clients navigate historic challenges. And we will get through this one. Together. Many of lifes moments in thare being put on hold. Are staying at home, at carvana, we understand that, for some, getting a car just cant wait. To help, were giving our customers up to 90 days to make their first payment. Shop online from the comfort of your couch, and get your car with touchless delivery to keep you safe. And for even Greater Peace of mind, all carvana cars come with a sevenday return policy. So, if you need to keep moving, were here for you. At carvana the safer way to buy a car. Founder of times square churchid told mike evans. Number one New York Times bestselling author, mike evans, has written an astonishing book on it, called. For the full prophesy by David Wilkerson and the book by mike evans go to www. Foz. Org gerry while most countries around the world including the u. S. Have essentially shut down their economies to try to suppress the coronavirus. One countrys chosen a somewhat different route. Sweden didnt order the closure of businesses, restaurants, schools, workplaces for most people, but instead encouraged socalled social distancing. Now, its still too early to know for sure if that was a suggest, but the numbers certainly, according to the latest data, sweden hasnt had a larger number of deaths than many other european countries. So have they got this right . Here to tell us about what sweden did is the countrys foreign minister, anne lynn. She comes from stockholm. Thank you for joining us. Thank you. Gerry start by telling us what measures did you take to address the krone veers coronavirus and how they differ from other countries. We have the have have the same challenge like everybody else. We want to stop the spread of the virus, we would like to not have so many dead people, we want to get our Health System working during the pandemic, but we also want to mitigate the effects on businesses and economy. And, therefore, we have a combination of recommendations and of legally binding measures. And we also dont believe in lockdown in that way. We want people to be outdoors if they dont is have any symptoms as long as they keep the social distance. We also have made it possible for people to stay at home if they have any even mild symptoms. For example, not asking for a doctors certificate make it possible to call in for sick leave very, very easily. And we trust each other. The people trust the authorities, the authorities trust the people. And i think thats one of the biggest differences gerri so people, just to be clear, people are still schools are open, people are going to work, many people at least, restaurants, bars are open, very unlike what you see in the rest of europe or in the United States. Well, its not exactly like that. We have not closed our schools until between the preschools and the secondary schools, and thats also because the effects will be devastating when you cannot see so much spread among children and young people. In sweden about 80 of the parents, both the man and the wife or two men and two women work, and out means that it would it means that it would have severe effect if we closed the schools and all those people have to stay home, one parent in each family. So we have decided that that is not working. Gerry and what would if we get the recommendation that certainly the spread is so big this schools, there would be no problem for us to close it down [inaudible conversations] you cannot drink in a bar. You have to sit and you have to sit with social distance. Gerry but at least you can go to a bar which you cant do here in new york city. What effect quickly, got to take a break, but what effect that seems to have had in terms of have you had a higher number of cases, a higher number of deaths than other cups because [inaudible] well, actually, of course its too early to say. But our number of deaths could be compared to several other european cups, but its very countries, but its very different. After the pandemic is over, its pointless to say finish but we have managed to flat then the curve, and we flatten the curve, and we think our strategy is working, and we believe its much better for people to be outside than work in their home for the public health. Gerry we need to take a very quick break, but well be back and discuss more about what swedens been doing and perhaps some of the lessons sweden might have for the rest of the world. Stay with us. Americas oldest lighthouse has weathered many storms. Seeing the break in the clouds before anyone else. Together, well weather this storm. Its a great escape. So many Great Stories from amazing people. It makes me want to be better. It changes your perspective. It makes you a different person. See what listening to audible can do for you. There are times when our need to connect really matters. To keep customers and employees in the know. To keep business moving. Comcast business is prepared for times like these. Powered by the nations largest gigspeed network. To help give you the speed, reliability, and security you need. Tools to manage your business from any device, anywhere. And a team of experts here for you 24 7. Weve always believed in the power of working together. Thats why, when every connection counts. You can count on us. There are times when our need to connect really matters. To keep customers and employees in the know. To keep business moving. Comcast business is prepared for times like these. Powered by the nations largest gigspeed network. To help give you the speed, reliability, and security you need. Tools to manage your business from any device, anywhere. And a team of experts here for you 24 7. Weve always believed in the power of working together. Thats why, when every connection counts. You can count on us. Gerry my guest is swedens minister of foreign affairs, ann lind. Tell us what effect this seems to be your measures, social distancing measures that youve had, what effect its having on the economy. Is it disrupting the economy . It is disrupting an economy, and we will see a downfall in the growth of at least 4, it could be up to 10 . We dont know that yet, but at least 4 . We also have a rise in unemployment that [inaudible] but actually what we have been doing is to have a strong economic package with about 10 million u. S. Dollars, and since we have very strong finances actually, we have the Lowest National Debt since 1977 we can afford this. Finish and thats because we have saved for situations like this. But even so the economy taking a hit. And its not gerry but you sorry, excuse me. Youve taken a bit of a hit, but the u. S. Economy is expected to decline perhaps by 30 , most of the european economies are expecting similar measures. Youre talking about a much smaller hit to your economy. Well, thats we are trying to get, as soon as it is over, we think we will have a very strong start, and we try to work with goals in mind not to spread the virus, but also to mitigate the impact on jobs and businesses and provide security for those who lose their jobs and also to tackle problems, social problems. And we have been able to include shortterm work, is sick pay responsibility, liquid reinforcement via tax account and increase opportunities for government loans and guarantees. And also we have raised how much you get when you are unemployed, the unemployment benefits. So we try to mitigate the economic consequences gerry which you seem to have done. I dont want to make it sound like we dont have any effects. Gerry let me ask you about how far you think the virus has spread. This is obviously key. Part of the strategy that some people thought might be a good idea would be to have the virus spread quite quickly so so that a country would develop herd immunity. Other cups talked about this, some of them did it. A very large reporting population has the virus, develops immunity, and then the country can move on much more quickly. Do you have any evidence that its closer to that . We dont have a strategy of herd immunity. But after a certain phase in the pandemic, there will be herd immunity. Its a state we will come to, but its not our strategy. So far we think we are somewhere in the middle of the situation, and we have been able to flatten the curve, but there will be a long time still until we are out of this situation. Gerry just very briefly especially, for example, the president [laughter] in the United States thought that we have this strategy of herd immunity, but that is not the case. Gerry very quickly because weve run out of time, youre confident though, are you, that this approach is working, that its limiting the damage to the swedish economy and also not letting too many people get sick and die as a result of the virus. Very briefly. Actually, my government really believes that this is the way that works for sweden, and then im sure that every government is doing whats best for them. And this is the way that we are handling it. Gerry my great thanks to foreign min ester ann linde, thank you very much, indeed. Up next, what is it going to take for us in nearly 100 years serving the military community, weve seen you go through tough times and every time, youve shown us, youre much tougher your heart, courage and commitment has always inspired us and now its no different so, were here with financial strength, stability and experience you can depend on and the online tools you need because you have always set the highest standard and reaching that standard is what were made for so to breathe better i started oncedaily anoro. Go your own way copd tries to say go this way i say ill go my own way with anoro. Go your own way oncedaily anoro contains two medicines called bronchodilators that Work Together to significantly improve lung function all day and all night. Do not use anoro if you have asthma. Anoro wont replace rescue inhalers for sudden symptoms and should not be used more than once a day. 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Gerry one of the Biggest Challenges in dealing with the covid19 epidemic is uncertainty. There is so much about this virus that we simply dont know. Most importantly, we dont know how many people have had it. This is vital for a number of reasons. For one thing, those who have already had the virus are likely to have developed immunity, and they can go back to work or school or whatever they were doing. Second, knowing how many people have had it will tell us how lethal it is. So far in this country around 5 of those who have tested positive of the virus have died from it, but thats based only on those who have been tested. Its likely the actual number of people who had the virus way higher. They had mild or no symptoms at all ask never got tested. New York Governor Andrew Cuomo reported on thursday a random study of supermarket shoppers found that 21 of new york City Residents had tested positive for the aunt bodies meaning that antibodies meaning that theyd had it while across the state was 14 . If accurate, that would mean about 2. 7 Million People in the empire state have already been infected that. s more than ten times the actual number of confirmed cases. Perhaps more importantly, that equates to a fatality rate of half of 1 , 1 person for every 200 people who caught it who have died. This disease is much less lethal than we had feared. Now, that doesnt mean we can go straight back to normal. Its still a deadly disease that spreads easily, but it does indicate the number of people who are at real mortal risk very, very low, and it emphasizes that the key challenge is to protect those who are most vulnerable while steadily letting others get back to life as usual. The quicker we find out about the true reach and threat of this disease, the quicker we can end this economic nightmare. Thats it for this week, be sure to follow me on twitter, facebook and instagram. Next week well be discussing the Global Economic implications of the coronavirus outbreak. Thats right here one street jo thank you very much for joining us. Jack welcome to barrons roundtable where we get behind the headlines and prepare you for the week ahead. Im jack otter. We begin with what we think are the three most important things investors should be thinking about right now. Major upheaval in the Energy Market with oil supply overwhelming demand. Who are the biggest losers and what it means for prices at the pump. But coronavirus still this control of the market as the medical industry rushes to develop treatment and the pandemic retesting Food Companies as growth stocks, which ones are benefiting from consumers cooking and eating at home. On the barrons virtual round table, ben, karl and jack. Great to see