Transcripts For DW REV 20240710

A gop Talking Point and a frequent topic of conversation on conservative media. The rightwing scare tactic flies in face of President Bidens actual record, though. In fact his supportive 90s era tough on violence, his ability to even win the nomination for president. That, in fact, that joe biden may be the democrats best hope against the incoming attacks preying on voters fears, especially those of suburban men and women who remain a vote. Democrats in private and public are warning that rising crime represent the single biggest threat to their electoral chances in 2022. The ap adds this reporting, quote, white house aides believe that biden with his long legislative record on crime as a former senator is not easy to paint as soft on the issue and the president has been clear that he is opposed to the defund the Police Movement which has been effectively used against other democrats to paint them as antiLaw Enforcement. Biden is also trying to boost progressive efforts to reform policing. And while combatting crime and reforming police dont have to be at odds with each other, the two efforts are increasingly billed that way. And this is where we start today with some of our favorite reporters and friends. Washington post White House Bureau chief ashley, robert gibbs joins us, both msnbc contributors. I will apologize to both of you and our viewers. Were waiting for the president. If he starts i will rudely and awkwardly interrupt but weve all been warned. Ashley, talk about this tightrope that the president has to walk with these two key priorities is it. Thats exactly right and if you talk to white house aides they would argue these two things are sort of not mutually exclusive. There can be serious efforts to reform policing and deal with problems in that and serious efforts to reduce Violent Crime and get that under control. The tightrope comes in with, first of all, the way President Bidens republican opponents are trying to create this as a one or the other type of situation and democrats painted generally as not tough on crime as people who are for the defund the Police Movement, which its worth saying some have come out and said that. In many ways it is a fair characterization. It is not of President Biden himself during the campaign. He was one of the candidates who specifically did not say this but he does need to get crime in the country under control. It is a real control and in addition to just being a legitimate problem for the nation it is potentially a political problem for democrats especially in Swing Districts especially with suburban populations, men and women as you mentioned before. And its something he needs to deal with. You know, robert gibbs, it is sort of the height of cynicism to even put these things at a policy level, i understand the politics and i think all of the reporting on this is spot on. But that is because of the republican efforts to position these things as impossible to coexist. The truth is the best policing is the most sort of in touch with the community and those are the best examples that can model the reforms theyre working on in the senate. Just talk about the reality of being able to do both of these things at the same time. Yeah, and you mentioned that Community Based policing which is what joe biden has 30 years of experience on and having written legislation to put more of those officers in the communities and on the streets as a plus for him. We dont live in a world, as ashley said, these two things are mutually exclusive. It cant be either we have police who do what happened in minneapolis or were safe from crime. We dont live in that kind of Black And White world. Look, i get that your political opponents try to make you pick either or. Youre seeing it today with the president being out there is understanding this is a cause and concern and moving resources to do something about it. The presidency gives you that important bully pulpit that allows you to take issues that are difficult to have conversations on and gives you the platform to be able to do that. Smart of this president today to begin to use that platform on an issue that is likely to only get worse before it gets better. Its happening in a lot of our bigger cities. Its happening in places like atlanta, in chicago, in baltimore. Voters are going to hear about it more and more. Theyre also now going to hear and see their president acting and doing something on it and trying to explain to them why we can have better policing and less crime. Ashley parker and robert gibbs are staying with us as we await President Bidens live event, live remarks to the nation on crime. Hell be joined by the Attorney General. I want to bring in Cedric Alexander, former member of president obamas task force on policing and a former Public Safety director foe dekalb county, georgia. Weve been having a conversation that may be so quintessentially wash be washian, how does a president do both, when in the real world citizens should expect everyone to be able to both be safe and not discriminatory and patrol the streets and keep their communities safe. Just speak to that frame thats been put around this President S Challenge in rising crime in america. Quite frankly, both can be done and it certainly can start with the george floyd bill. Let me seg this as well, too. We can reduce crime and reform policing at the same time. But what we have to do is make sure that we do this. We need to define very clearly what we want our Police Officers to do. We need to narrow the scope of their responsibility so they can go after the most violent criminals and Repeat Offenders who are out there and we cannot piecemeal but must wholly look at how do we address the social issues in this country, right . The Rail Causation of the crime and the uptick in violence that were seeing as were coming out of this pandemic which was exacerbated much of the crime that we see, high unemployment, people losing their homes, increase in Mental Health experiences that people are having. All of these are Driving Factors in fact we have a lot of young people who have been out of school for a year, many unsupervised. Weve reached this point where something needs to desperately be done. Whether its chicago, miami, atlanta, you name it, theyre struggling with this issue that is totally out of control and the primary issue is how to reduce crime, but we also have to do it simultaneously as we reassess what we want our police to do. We need our money put into policing to provide them the support they need. Longrange planning later will not happen overnight. People are dying on american streets as we speak. So there are things that need to be done right now to help police. Yes, they both must work collaboratively together but actually right now we know we have strains in our community between police and the community. Leadership is the order of the day. Cedric, can i go through with you some of the policies we expect the president to announce and get you to expand on if you think theyre in the right direction, not enough, what you would advise . We expect the president to unveil a plan to revoke licenses to gun dealers the first time they violate federal law. The flood of guns is contributing both to the dangerous face of police and all of us. Talk about that measure. I think thats fine, but here is the reality of it. The greatest majority of people who own guns are exercising their Second Amendment right and are doing so legally. The problem we look at the data, its the stolen that are getting into the hands of bad people out here in the communities. You have a lot of communities if you look at the data you see a large increase in guns being stolen out of cars, out of homes, et cetera. That is the driving force. We may have a Mass Shooting in some Large Department store or some function, someone loses it mentally, but the greatest majority and the frequency of the shootings were seeing are happening in many of our neighborhoods that are struggling. Neighborhoods, particularly black and brown, very specific neighborhoods, where daily people are dying of street violence, Gang Violence, enabled violence, and thats where the real issue is. So we need to be very realistic. We need to fight that front, too, but the reality of it is in the here and now, in the moment were in that right now this is Gang Violence in the streets of america. Ask any city mayor, ask any of them, and they will tell you thats their struggle. Thats their challenge. Thats where they need the help are in those neighborhoods. Cedric, as youre talking, im just thinking of a word i use, sort of the highest cynicism a lot of this debate is framed around the politics of it that swing voters are getting scared of crime. There is no political season or swing voter that is more affected by communities of color and People Living in poverty and live with this day in and day out regardless of who the president is. What is the real conversation. Even before this uptick that weve seen. For a period weve seen a reduction in Violent Crime but just before covid we saw this uptick. The real conversations we need to be having at this very moment is twofold. One, what are things we can do to narrow the scope of policing, two, the criminal Justice System because this reform for violent criminals are repeating a lot of these crimes. That needs to be revisited immediately. We dont want to lock up folks but, let me say this, there are people out there doing great harm to many people who are just innocent. We have to address the here and the now. The political rhetoric on either side of the aisle is fine. But for the American People who live in these communities, and if we look at their stories every day that comes across our news, people are being affected in community, as people in buckhead, georgia, they will tell you the challenges they have in that upscale community. We have to address these issues far greater at a local level and provide the resources from our federal and state government, bodies will continue to drop, people will continue to get hurt, but we need to do things in the here and now and right now weve got to be able to help our Police Department get them what they need and look at strategies that have worked and we have to create new strategies that are occurring because our country is in a very different place. All of us will have to use a different imagination, invite our Research Institutions to give us clear data of new and emerging type of trends that are coming about because we need help. The American People in our cities, large and small, are getting hurt every day and the politics have to come out of this because thats not going to do anything. Lets get the george floyd bill passed. It needs to happen for this entire country so that we can move forward. Thats one aspect of it. The real change is at the local level. You know, cedrics point is something this president is trying to address. Some of the prescriptions he will unveil is set aside 350 billion of the covid relief packages, state and local funding, to help with communitying policing, including investing in new technologies and bolstering prosecutions of gun traffickers, going a little further than arresting the dealers, one of the other elements that he will announce today. Where did they turn to for the specifics and policy proposals today, ashley . Well, jen psaki was asked that at a briefing today actually and she gave a somewhat nonanswer and said it really came from the president himself. He oversees all policies. It does get to what we were talking about which is the politics and policy of it is some of these things that are really targeting guns which are the drive in Violent Crime and homicides. These are things joe biden can do now through executive order, Executive Action including ghost guns, making sure they have a serial number atouched, that gun stores that people are not allowed to buy one without running the necessary Background Checks, are penal ized with one strike. That is joe biden and his team that is good policy. That will stem some of this crime and has the benefit for them of being good politics within the democratic party. While there is this debate about exactly how do you reform policing, and, as you mentioned, more Community Involvement or some of those calls to defund the police, sort of all manner of democrats just about can get behind some of the stronger prescriptions on guns themselves. So the biden team believes it is, again, good policy, first and fror most, but also generally good politics for a pretty diverse conference that can be hard to hold together. Robert gibbs, let me ask you something that i hear coming up in my conversations on and off television and that is the ticking of the clock. And let me actually put out some data, some statistics. In the First Quarter of 2021, homicides are up over the same period last year in atlanta, chicago, thats, houston, indianapolis, orlando, pittsburgh and tampa. Thats from the mayors. Homicides and shootings are both ahead of last year. There are 181 killings as of june 6th up from 162 last year. Los angeles, the same kind of picture. How long does this president have to, one, show some results, show some declines in crime, and, two, show some action, deliver some legislation or policies for the Democratic Base that is justiiably looking to see Real Progress . Its a great question, nicolle. President s generally have less time than they think they do to get something moving on this. You mentioned with these statistics going up year over year and the challenges likely to get even more challenging as the months go on through summer, i think that clock is ticking and thats why youre seeing the action today. The biggest thing is the moving of resources. There are some things you can do in washington, but as has been said by all the guests in this segment, this is going to get done at a local level. Its going to get done by the mayors in many of those cities. And i think moving money out, getting them resources is going to be crucial to making an impact on something that will take a long time and this has no doubt been exacerbated by what the country has been through, made worse, definitely by whats happening economically. And that will not get fixed overnight. This president is looking to take action, having answers, being able to add something into this debate, moving those resources so the mayors and the cities that they govern are feeling the impact of increased resources. Ashley parker, Cedric Alexander and robert gibbs, thank you for starting us off. I have to say this, the president is running late. Maybe he heard cedric and added some things to his announcement. We will bring it to you in its entirety live. Thank you for starting us off. Up next for us, Donald Trumps Special Relationship with the Kingdom Of Saudi Arabia and its crown prince remained rock solid, even when the u. S. Intelligence community concluded that he was most likely behind the brutal murder of Washington Post columnist khashoggi. Reporting reveals for the very first time that some of khashoggis killers were trained right here state side in the United States. The reporter who broke that story and congressman jim hines, his committee, wants more answers, will be our guests. And the big lie in arizona and michigan, more proof, as if we needed it, it is all a lie. Why are these states still making it harder to vote then . Deadline white house continues after a quick break. Ontinues after qua ick break. When technology is easier to use. Barriers dont stand a chance. Thats why well stop at nothing to deliver our technology asaservice. The light. To deliver our technology asaservice. It comes from within. It drives you. And it guides you. To shine your brightest. As you charge ahead. Illuminating the way forward. A light maker. Recognizing that the impact you make, comes from the energy you create. Introducing the allelectric lyriq. Lighting the way. I brought in ensure max protein, with thirty grams of protein. Those who tried me felt more energy in just two weeks Sighs Wearily here, ill take that excited yell woohoo ensure max protein. With thirty grams of protein, onegram of sugar, and nutrients to support immune health abbot sonic talk to me. What do we got . When you have xfinity xfi, with blazing speed. And nutrients to support immune health [ screaming ] a powerful connection. Thats another level. And ultimate control. Power us up. You can do more than you ever thought possible. Yes hold on. Get a powerful and secure connection you can count on. Only with xfinity xfi. And see f9 only in theaters. Its a very complex situation. Its a shame but it is what it is. Mr. President , why are you siding with the saudis over your own intelligence . Its America First to me. Were not going to give up hundreds of billions of dollars in orders and let russia, china and everybody else have them. The cia has looked at it. Theyvedefinitive. Maybe he did, maybe he didnt. We are with saudi arabia. Were staying with saudi arabia. It was stunning then and is even more stunning today. The expresident let saudi arabia and its leader off the hook and now two and a half years later theres new reporting, a twist, if you will, surrounding the brutal murder of journalist khashoggi. Documents and people familiar with the matter that four who took part in the training in 2018 received paraMilitary Training in the United States the year prior. Under a contract approved by the trump State Department. It was conducted by an arkansasbased contractor called tier one group. The Parent Company maintains the training was defensive in nature and unrelated to their subsequent heinous acts. As for the Trump Administrations role, quote, theres no evidence the american officials who approved the training or tier 1 Group Executives knew the saudis were involved in the crackdown. The fact the government approved highlevel Military Training for operatives who went on to carry out the grisly killing of a journalist shows how intensely intertwined the u. S. Has become even as its agents committed horrific human rights abuses. A member of the Intelligence Committee and a New York Times washington investigative correspondent, tell us more about what they thought they were training them to do because i think the governing style of mbs were pretty clear, no . The contract, nicolle, goes back some years to as far back as 2014 during the Obama Administration and during a different time in saudi politics. The training was supposed to be for the Saudi Royal Guard to protect senior royals, the crown prince, some of it was defensive in nature. Again, sort of more bodyguard protection. Over time, however, over the years, things changed. Mohammed bin salomon takes power and he turns this group or parts of this group into much more of an element to crush dissent to go after his enemies. Thats why this starts around 2017 and this is the time when those people who went through the training, some of the people who went through the training, ended up being part of these Missions Including the one to kill khashoggi. So its sort of a tale of what happens when you allow this training without much oversight and some of the real repercussions of that. What is adjacent to this is Donald Trumps dogged defenses of mbs even as his own Intelligence Community was briefing him about mbs role in khashoggis killing. Yes, it gives me a bit of ptsd to seeing the president do what he did on a number of occasions im sorry. Which is dismissing the work of the Intelligence Community. What donald trump always missed, the key ingredient to figuring out how to do this right its who do we sell weaponry to, send military trainers. All of this stuff in National Security circles is called dual use. We need to be very careful. And what donald trump always missed over his presidency one of the Core American strengths, if you want to be America First, thats great but one of the core, maybe the core, american strength is we care about values. People like us because they know that we care about values. And, look, i get it. We work with saudi arabia on things like counterterrorism. We like their energy, et cetera. Thats fine. We have a complicated relationship with china, too, but providing training, equipment and advice that could be used lethally you need to ask yourself a question whether you can be sure the people youre providing that stuff to share the underlying values that we do because, if not, you can end up with stories like the very wellresearched story. So, mark, speak to that. When did we start outsourcing paraMilitary Training to private equity backed firms . Its a good question. Some of this training of foreign forces, allied forces, has happened for a number of years. As we point out in the story these firms, a lot of which have popped up in the 20 years since 9 11, have in recent years, seen less business from the American Military because there is a gradual pulling back of deployments overseas so theyve gone looking for business and theyve gone looking for business with Foreign Countries who are eager to have this kind of training, a lot of it is done by former special operations, former navy s. E. A. L. S, intelligence operatives. So countries want to pay for this. The State Department provides licenses for that training. This is a little bit of a glimpse of the future as well because these companies are still seeking out business overseas from these partners, and its unclear whether the vetting, the oversight, has gotten any better. Congressman, do you want to get a handle on how many contracts like this are out there and whether there are currently contracts to train other elite saudis teams, whether they were a participate of this mission that murdered and brutally murdered khashoggi . Do you want to know how much of this is going on right now . Sure, of course we do. Congress is charged with oversight and there is a lot of this going on right now. We havent used the word that was front page many years ago and that word is black water. You asked how many outsourced contracts are being given. Remember blackwater, eric princes name. They had to change their name because of the abhorrent massacre a u. S. Contractor committed in iraq. Again, this is not a new problem and, believe me, its not if you think back on what blackwater did, its not just the killing of one individual. The answer obviously is its not good enough to say, hey, we like the saudis or these people. You really have to do some hard work to say are the values consistent with our values . And its not just with people like the saudis. Turkey, f35 Jet Airplanes and they turn around and buy russian stateoftheart antiaircraft stuff so this is not sexy work but inside the State Department, inside the Department Of Defense and, yes, inside the intelligence people. They are in partnerships in unsavory places. This is subject to specific oversight. Congressman, i will ask you to stick around and ask you other big stories. Mark mazzetti, its great to spend time on this extraordinary piece of reporting. Thank you, my friend. When we come back Michael Finone joining forces with congress and the damage republicans are doing to the entire country as they obstruct the 9 11style commission to investigate the insurrection. Details on where that stands next. S on where that stands next re powerpacked vitamins. That help unleash your energy. Loaded with b vitamins. And other key essential nutrients. 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Is what business is all about. Its what the United States Postal Service has always been about. So as your business changes, were changing with it. With ecommerce that runs at the speed of now. Next day and twoday shipping nationwide. Same day shipping across town. Returns right from the doorstep, and deliveries seven days a week. Its a whole new world out there. Lets not keep it waiting. If you believe antifa and blm actually attacked the capitol you should want a january 6th commission. If youve been lying about it the whole time, then you dont want a january 6th commission. Thats why we have to do it. Do you worry about more violence . Yes. Here . Yes. The best antidote against that is unity among democrats and republicans saying were not going to let that happen again. Republican congressman Adam Kinzinger and swalwell joining up with Michael Fanone who was injured during the january 6 insurrection. All of them agreeing on the need, the urgent need for a 9 11style commission to get to the bottom of what happened that day and what led to it. Nancy pelosi contemplating her next steps telling her colleagues she plans to announce whether she will form a House Select Committee to take that on after republicans blocked legislation for a bipartisan vote. Were back with congressman jim himes. We have turned to you for information about what happened. Weve pressed you on what you know. And it is amazing all these months later there still isnt an investigation thats even commenced. What do you think about that point that kinzinger was trying to make, really pulling back the bs that covers up the republican obstruction, that if you actually believe anything youre saying about antifa or it was peaceful, you would want an investigation to prove youre right, that they may very well be covering up their own complicity. Nicolle, the reality is that with a few kind of flammable exceptions, the ones that sort of get famous pretty quickly, very few have any illusion about what happened and precisely because they understand what happened you saw the trump flag, you saw trumps words, they understand what happened. Precisely because they understand this was a trump cat alyzed event that is inconvenient to what theyre trying to do which is Retake Control of the House Of Representatives am so dont be fooled. There may be one or two folks who believe the fbi did this or antifa did this. The republicans know what happened and really dont want to talk about it, and thats a dangerous thing for a country who came very close to having its democracy turned over. I want to show you something officer fanone said in the same interview. Well talk about it on the other side. If there was participation from members of congress, from their staff, as an officer that served that day, i certainly would like to know that. As an american i believe very strongly in a twoparty system. Right now one of those party has a cancer, and we have to cut it out. And until we do that were not going to be able to move forward as a nation. So, congressman, this is someone who has no interest, i dont think, in partisan politic. Correct me if thats not your perception. Because he was on the Receiving End of hundreds of officers who were mutilated with trump flag pose and other weapons that day, hes seeing, i think, something you and i have talked about for many years, one of the two parties has broken bad and doesnt is so sure theyre wrong, they dont want an investigation to reveal that theyre wrong. What about this idea it just goes uninvestigated, that we never connect the dots . Is that a possibility, or is Speaker Pelosi going to announce something . I do think Speaker Pelosi will announce something and it will be a far cry from what we should have, a nonpartisan investigation, the way weve always done these things, but it will be important at getting at the information we might not get at and the many hundreds of investigations that are occurring out there. And my hope is, the republicans keep saying the commission should look more broadly. Its silly to say what happened on january 6th that its somehow the mirror image of black lives matter. Thats silly. It should look more broadly. I worry less about an individual republican who may have, whatever, shared a map of the capitol, than i do about the wholesale use of the federal government, including the doj, to spy on members of congress and journalists, the use of state Department Aid to advance the Political Aims of the president. I got a briefing today that suggested that there are specific ways in which the Intelligence Community compromised intelligence to satisfy the president s political beliefs. We need something that actually looks at the entire compromise of the entire federal government in the service of one president s Political Aims. And if we dont grapple with that, the republicans dont want to talk about it, we will fail to learn the lessons of how we almost lost our democracy and that would be a terrible, terrible inheritance for the people who come after us and, by the way, the republicans should realize im not saying that democrats are more virtues. Some day there may be a democratic donald trump, and do you really want that democratic donald trump to be using the tools that your donald trump used . I dont think so. Youve touched on something that is the bigger story, and we dont do a good enough job, i think, of placing it out there. I think what merrick gar left hand announced yesterday that hes not going to review his department, hes going to leave it to one of a handful of igs the expresident left in place, the expresident got rid of igs at state and at the pentagon, but he left the one at doj. Hes going to let him investigate what you just described, that the department did all the things that donald trump was asking them to do. They spied on the chief witness in the mueller investigation. Now we dont know if they reported back to trump and it shaped his defense, Rudy Giuliani was defending him. We dont know if they were answering his call to spy on adam schiff and eric swalwell. Will we ever know . Is it enough to simply refer all of those big, Big Questions about the corruption of the department itself to the ig . Well, thats a really good question. What is true is that former Attorney General barr so obviously compromised that office by repeatedly acting not in the interests of justice but in the political interests of the president and the examples go on and on and on of the Attorney General barr doing that. Attorney general Merrick Garland is in an uncomfortable position because now that position is sullied by this political shadow. And so maybe its not ideal, but i actually appreciate the Attorney General saying, hey, this will not have political fingerprints on it. This will be done objectively full stop. All right. Well be watching. Well be watching with you. Congressman jim himes, thank you for spending some time with us today and for rolling with us with the breaking news. Up next for us a months long gopled investigation into the 2020 vote in michigan. Finding what those who furthered the big lie were doing for perm gain. You dont say . Will there be any accountability for those lies . 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And many of us realize a fundamental human need to connect with other likeminded people. Welcome back to the world. Viking. Exploring the world in comfort. Once again. We are still watching and waiting on the white house where President Biden is set to unveil his plan to address the rise in Violent Crime. Mike, i believe this is the latest he has been for an event as president at the white house. It was scheduled for 3 30. This is something he has been working on his whole career. Do you have any reporting on why hes so late . Reporter he had a closed to the Press Meeting with local leaders, the Baltimore Mayor among them, to discuss exactly what he will talk about which is this spike the white house has been closely tracking in Violent Crime over the past 18 months. The white house is laying out the strategy that the president will be discussing, some of the tools he will be using to try to confront this. One is talk about the pandemic as an instigator, so Many Americans were cooped up and the economic dislocation that happened because of this, and, secondly, the ways in which this president , who obviously saw his record on Law And Order and crime issues litigated both in the democratic primary and general election is staking out a very clear line about the need to invest in Law Enforcement and interestingly theyre making those connections, allowing local and state governments to take advantage of the Covid Relief Money that was passed, the president signed in march, to take some steps and the White House Press secretary laid out an example of some of how local cities are doing this including hiring more police, investing in their Law Enforcement, renovating Police Offices and Police Departments. And so this is a president who has deep experience in Law And Order issues, talked about what motivated him writing the 1994 crime bill and that was a spike in Violent Crime in the late 80s and early 90s. And so im curious as he is very, very delayed in coming out and speaking to us what he might have been picking up in some of these conversations he was having with the local leadership that was part of this roundtable discussion because i think this is a president who enjoys, especially now that the pandemic has made it easier for him to connect with people across the country and in person to do so, some of what he learned that he may now share when we eventually hear from him in the next few minutes perhaps. You know what else i thought, i had the same thought this morning when i saw the News Reporting about what he was expected to announce today this was the thing, his experience in the early 90s, being on the tough on crime side almost cost him the democratic nomination. I had forgot he what you said. It was also used by the folks on the other side of the aisle to try to create or widen divisions in the democratic party. It seems to me this might have worked out perfectly for democrats. He is the one guy to which you cannot affix a label soft on crime. He has too long of a record, and the public knows about it. Also, the attacks on him over it were so public on both sides. And youre right, throughout the primary and the general. Is there a sense of relief thats the case . Does it continue to cause divisions on the left . How is that dealt with inside this white house . I think the way he was staking out a course to be one of the most progressive president s preps since lbj, certainly since fdr, and the idea he was embracing that internally and sweeping history in doing that. We also remember he was not the most progressive candidate in the democratic primaries. If you look politically about how he won the nomination and how he won the general election, it was a laser focus on two things. One, the Africanamerican Community and a lot of the kind of steps hes announcing today are geared toward empowering the Africanamerican Community, providing more after school and internship job programs for the summer. Also providing a path for former ly incarcerated individuals to have more than a bus ticket but to have real support systems to reenter as a part of society. But its also the laser focus that he had on the suburbs. Joe biden represented delaware in the senate for 36 years, especially the northern parts of delaware, a very much suburban community. Hes attuned to that. So announcing especially the steps on gun violence and trying to stem the flow of guns in this country is very much geared toward that as well. Nbcs mike memoli. We had hoped to hear from the president this hour but you are a very close second. Thank you for spending some time with us. There are two new reports out this week totally tearing down efforts to sustain the big lie. In arizona a group of Election Experts blasting the socalled audit of ballots in Maricopa County as partisan and detailing the many, quote, fatal flaws including letting workers who are supporters of qanon and stop the steal handle ballots. And in michigan the gop stateled senate is out with no evidence, zero, nada, zilch for claims of widespread fraud in the 2020 election there. They conclude citizens should be confident the results represent the true results of the ballots cast by the people of michigan. Joining us now is michigan Secretary Of State jocelyn benson. Madam secretary, i wonder what you thought when you read this this morning. It was certainly a vindication of the truth weve known for a very long time now, that the results of the election of 2020 were an accurate reflection of the will of the people here in michigan. So it shows that no matter how many ways you look at it, if youre willing to look at the facts and the data, it underscores the truth. I just hope that state senator ed mcbroom who led this report, that others in this party follow his lead and tell the truth to their constituents about the security and integrity of our 2020 election and we stop seeing them support legislation based on lies and misinformation that this report widely debunks. I wanted to ask you about that because the report debunks the notion that there was any fraud in michigan. Yet michigan is still moving forward with Voter Suppression laws. Exactly. Theres 39 bills going through the very same state senate, the very same state Senate Committee that the author of the report sits on. And so i think its important that we acknowledge the truth and the integrity of the 2020 election, which this report does, but now weve got to act in furtherance of that truth. In doing so, not enact laws that would undo the very policies that led to our success in 2020, which the vast majority of these 39 bills do. Yet they are still moving through the senate, they are still moving through the statehouse. In fact at this very moment they are being voted on in the statehouse, some of the pieces of legislation. So its time to stop the misinformation, but its also time to pull back efforts to pass laws in furtherance of that misinformation and this report i hope is the first step in that direction. I guess you just articulated the whole conundrum. You know having republicans putting their name on a report that is sort of the Good Housekeeping seal of verifying there was no fraud. But those same republicans are still behind laws to do something. What . Predicated on a lie, make it harder for people in michigan to vote. Is there any chance of slowing that down in any state absent federal Voting Rights legislation . It remains to be seen, but it is you know, we certainly need the federal government to step up and protect states like michigan, like arizona, where there still are people even now acknowledging that there is misinformation but potentially supporting legislation to undo the very policies that enabled such high turnout. Here in michigan if they move forward with the bills, for example, what that now underscores is that this legislation is not a reaction to voter fraud. The legislation is a reaction to Voter Turnout. And we have to be very truthful with our voters, with all citizens about what the legislation now is. And this report helps us do that, but it remains to be seen whether others in the state senate or the State Legislature will embrace the accuracy of this report and act accordingly. I hope that they do. We also hope that the federal government acts to protect voters, which is their historical role and their constitutional obligation. At a time like this when democracy is the most important issue at stake in our country right now. So we remain hopeful that the federal government will act. We remain hopeful that the State Legislators in our state will do the right thing. Weve got to also keep calling for them on all fronts to do the right thing because our democracy is at stake and the right to vote for every citizen is in the middle of all of this. I spent some time in the Republican Party and they wont stop. I dont know of any antidote. There are 389 of them making their way through states. You mentioned the constitution. Nowhere in the constitution is the word filibuster. Should democrats put that aside for Voting Rights legislation . Yes, i think so. I think now is a moment, as it was in 1965 with the passage of the Voting Rights act, as it was even in the 1860s when the amendments to the constitution, the 13th, 14th and 15th amendments were enacted which sometimes you have to do the right thing. There are the votes to bring the for the people act up for discussion. 50 plus 1 with the Vice President. So we need to have that discussion. The federal government has to play a role in protecting the states and protecting voters in every state. And at a time like this where so many states are not just passing laws to undo policies that enable Voter Turnout in 2020, but passing laws to strip authority from the Election Administrators who stood guard to protect the voices and the votes of every citizen, this is one of the most perilous moments in our democracy today and its an all Hands On Deck moment for everyone to play their role and the federal government is a critical player in that partnership. Michigan Secretary Of State jocelyn benson, thank you so much for spending some time with us today. I want to tell our viewers what were going to do. We are going to listen in to the Attorney General and the president in those remarks weve been discussing all hour. Weeks and months ahead. Every one of our u. S. Attorneys offices is working with its local partners to establish an immediate plan to address the spike in Violent Crime that typically occurs during the summer. The Law Enforcement components of the department are making enhanced Resources Available to help prevent and disrupt Violent Crime and to focus on the most dangerous, most violent offenders. The department is also strengthening our project safe neighborhoods. Our Cornerstone Initiative that brings together Law Enforcement and Community Stakeholders to develop solutions to pressing Violent Crime problems. Communityled efforts are vital to preventing violence before it occurs. The Justice Department has available over 1 billion in funding through over a dozen Grant Programs that can be used to support evidencebased Community Violence intervention strategies, and i want to say thats what i found particularly useful in our discussion just a few minutes ago was the fact that there are such evidencebased programs available and im hoping that you will get together with us so that we can spread those across the country as well, of course, funding your own. A properly functioning criminal Justice System is essential to our efforts as well. We have Grant Funding available to help cities and services that were curtailed during the covid19 pandemic. That includes funding for technology and equipment, for courts to address the backlog of cases and enhance access to justice. We know that an effective Violent Crime strategy must also address the illegal trafficking of firearms and focus on keeping guns out of the wrong hands. And so the department is delivering on the promises we made here at the white house in april. On may 7th we issued a proposed rule to help address the proliferation of ghost guns. On june 7th we issued a proposed rule to clarify that pistols equipped with stabilizing braces are subject to the same statutory restrictions as easily concealable shortbarrelled rifles. On the same day the Department Published extreme Risk Protection order legislation for states to consider as they craft their own laws to reduce gun violence. We are now taking further steps. First, we will hold gun dealers that break the rules accountable for their actions. Most federally licensed Firearms Dealers operate legally selling guns to individuals who have passed Background Checks. But those dealers that willfully violate the law increase the risks that guns will fall into the wrong hands. Absent extraordinary circumstances, Atf Will Initiate Proceedings to revoke the licenses of dealers that willfully violate the law by failing to conduct required Background Checks, falsifying records, failing to respond to trace requests, refusing to permit atf to conduct inspections or transferring firearms to persons who are prohibited from owning them. Second, we are seeking funding to increase atfs Dealer Inspection Capacity and improve its effectiveness. Atf has very limited inspection resources. The president s fiscal 2022 Budget Requests resources to add Inspection Positions in every Field Division. The effectiveness of the Enforcement Program depends on the ability to identify and focus on those dealers that pose the greatest risk to Public Safety. Starting today, atf will make clear to investigators in every Field Division that as they prioritize inspections, they must consider the extent to which firearms sold by a dealer are later used in criminal activity. Third, we will improve information sharing with state, local, tribal and territorial participates to help bring more intelligence and Law Enforcement resources to bear as well as with the public to increase our own accountability. Today atf has a point of contact in every Field Division to receive information from mayors, Police Chiefs and other local leaders about Firearms Dealers they believe are acting unlawfully. And starting next month, atf Will Begin Sharing Inspection Data with the 16 states that license or regulate Firearms Dealers themselves. Also beginning next month, atf will publicly post information about Inspection Frequency and outcomes aggravated by Field Division providing for enhanced transparency and accountability. Fourth, we are launching a concerted effort to crack down on gun traffickers. Yesterday the department announced that it will establish five new crossjurisdictional Law Enforcement Strike Forces within the next 30 days. The Strike Forces will focus on addressing significant firearms trafficking corridors that Fuel Violence in new york, chicago, los angeles, the San Francisco bay area, and washington, d. C. As well as in cities and towns along the way. The Justice Departments Violent Crime reduction strategy and our initiatives to stem the rising tied of illegal guns will save lives. But these steps alone will not solve the problem of Violent Crime. Success depends on all of us joining together. Those of you in this room, the many like you across the country who are working to keep their community safe, and the people of our communities themselves. I would now like to introduce President Biden, who has emphasized the importance of this issue and who has my gratitude for gathering us together today. Thank you. Thank you, general. Let me before i begin thank the participants at our roundtable today. Two mayors, three mayors, chiefs of police, Attorneys General and Community Organizers that have been doing significant work in bringing down Violent Crime in their communities. There is no one answer fits everything and its about being engaged in multiple organizations being engaged so i want to thank you for the time that you spent with us today. I warned you im coming back at you again for more information. We just met as i said with a Bipartisan Group of mayors, Law Enforcement and Community Leaders. We discussed a comprehensive strategy that im releasing today to combat the epidemic of gun violence and other Violent Crime that weve been seeing in our country for far too long. It has spiked since the start of the pandemic over a year ago. Crime historically rises during the summer and as we emerge from this pandemic, the Country Opening back up again, the traditional summer spike may even be more pronounced than it usually would be. For folks at home, heres what you need to know. Ive been at this a long time and there are things we know that work that reduce gun violence and Violent Crime and things that we dont know about, but things we know about. Background checks for purchasing a firearm are important. Ban on Assault Weapons and highcapacity magazines. No one needs to have a weapon that can fire over 30, 40, 50, even up to 100 rounds unless you think the deer are wearing kevlar vests or something. Community policing and programs that keep communities safe and folks out of trouble, these efforts work and save lives. Over time, these policies were gutted and woefully underfunded. In our conversation today, we talked about our strategy to supercharge what works while we continue to push the congress to act on sensible gun violence legislation. First, we discussed cracking down, as you heard from the Attorney General, on Rogue Gun Dealers. We know that if theres a strict enforcement of Background Checks, then fewer guns get into the hands of criminals. Background checks have thus far kept more than 3 million guns out of the hands of felons, convicted felons, fugitives, domestic abusers and others prohibited from being able to purchase a gun. Theres still too many loopholes in that system. And today enough Rogue Gun Dealers feel like they can get away with selling guns to people who arent legally allowed to own them. I might add the Second Amendment from the day it was passed limited the time of people that could own a gun and what type of weapon you could own. You couldnt buy a cannon. The blood of patriots and all the stuff about how were going to have to move against the government. Well, the tree of liberty is not watered with the blood of patriots, whats happened is that therefore never been if you think you need weapons to take on the government, you need f15s and maybe nuclear weapons. The point is there has always been the ability to limit, rationally limit the type of weapon and who can own it. The last time we had data on this issue of who is purchasing a gun is more than 20 years ago. 5 of gun dealers it turns out in the study we did showed that 90 of illegal guns were found at crime scenes sold by 5 of gun dealers. 5 sold 90 of the guns found at crime scenes. And these merchants of death are breaking the law for profit. They are selling guns that are killing innocent people. Its wrong, its unacceptable. As the Attorney General said, were going to crack down on those gun dealers and the violent criminals they knowingly arm. In april i announced that the Justice Department is going to be issuing an Annual Report On Gun Trafficking so we can update that data. Today the department is announcing the major crackdown on stemming the flow of guns used to commit Violent Crimes. Zero tolerance for gun dealers who willfully violate key existing laws and regulations. I repeat, zero tolerance. If you willfully sell a gun to someone whos prohibited from possessing it, if you willfully dont run a Background Check and willfully refuse to cooperate with inspections, my message to you is this. Well find you and we will seek your license to sell guns. Well make sure you cant sell death and mayhem on our streets. Its an outrage. It has to end and well end it, period. Second, we discussed illegal Gun Trafficking. Now the gun lobby wants you to believe that cities that have the toughest gun laws still have the highest rates of gun violence. As was pointed out by the group that we had today at our roundtable, the violence is they argue why do you need gun laws if they dont work in cities that have tough laws. Heres the truth. Todays conversation with mayor scott of baltimore echoed what we know to be the case and hear from mayors across the country. Mayors have the power to help shape and enforce the law in their cities but cant control the laws in neighboring cities and states even though the gun legally bought there often ends up in their streets. Mayor scott says 80 of the guns in baltimore were acquired outside the city. Outside the city. Theres nothing he can do about that so we have to act. As part of our strategy, the Justice Department is creating five new Strike Forces to crack down on illegal Gun Trafficking and supplying weapons to cities like new york, chicago, los angeles, washington, d. C. , and the bay area. With these Strike Forces, local and federal Law Enforcement and prosecutors are going to be able to better coordinate the prosecution of illegal Gun Trafficking across city and straight lines. So illegal guns sold from the back door of a gun shop in virginia dont end up at a murder scene in baltimore. And if they do, then local and federal Law Enforcement can better coordinate to trace illegal gun sales back to a shady gun dealer and hold them accountable. Police chief murray of the baltimore excuse me, Police Chief Murphy of baton rouge, louisiana, talked about how hes coordinating more closely with the bureau of alcohol, tobacco and firearms, the atf. And the federal bureau of investigation, fbi, to help take on organizations and Violent Crimes in the city. This is essential keeping the weapons of war out of the hands of dangerous criminals, fugitives and gangs as well as organized crime. Third, we discussed historic funding for states, cities and counties and tribes for Law Enforcement and Crime Prevention. You know, they have not only had to fight this pandemic, they have also had to deal with economic crisis that has decimated their budgets, forced them to cut essential services, including Law Enforcement and social services. Amid the covid19 pandemic, they have had to deal with a Second Public health crisis, gun violence. The American Rescue plan which we passed in the first 100 days of my administration is providing much needed and historic relief to bring back those Law Enforcement jobs and social service jobs. Much of this relief has already arrived. The rest is on its way. Were now providing more guidance on how they can use the 350 billion nationally that the American Rescue plan has available to help reduce crime and address the root causes. For example, cities experiencing an increase in gun violence are able to use the American Rescue plan dollars to hire Police Officers needed for Community Policing and to pay their overtime. Mayors will also be able to buy crimefighting technologies like Gunshot Detection Systems to better see and stop gun violence in their communities. They can use the funding to scale up Wraparound Services for the residents as well, including Substance Abuse and Mental Health services that we know will make a difference to prevention of crime. Heres another example that reminds me of the old saying my mom used to use. Shed say an idle mind is a devils workshop. Well, school is out for the summer. Teenagers are in tough neighborhoods. No jobs, more trouble. We know Summer Job Training summer jobs, training and recreation for young people work to help make sure young people pick up a paycheck instead of a pistol. One study found a Boston Summer Jobs Program for youth reduced Violent Crimes by 35 in boston. Another study found that a program that offers High School Students in chicago a good summer job and an adult mentor and Behavioral Therapy Led to a 45 drop in violence. We can invest in more of these programs with the American Rescue plan. Heres another thing states, cities, counties and tribes can do with that funding. When someone finishes their time in prison, they cant just get we cant just continue to give them 25 and a bus ticket. They end up right back where they started and got them in trouble in the first place, or no option for being able to provide for access to Public Housing or for schools or for mentors to help them finding their way and the tough that prevents recidivism and helps them integrate into society. Thats changing. With guidance were issuing today, the American Rescue plan funding can help formerly incarcerated people get skills, training, apprenticeships and Work Experience so they can gain stability and security and a chance for a better life rather than going back to exactly what they left. The Attorney General of new jersey and mayor Daniela Levine Cava of miamidade talked about their efforts to lift up those kinds the kinds of Community Programs that reduce gun violence, keep communities safe and make a real positive difference in peoples lives. For folks at home, the American Rescue plan, which is a once in a Generation Investment to reduce violence in america, is available. Im proud of it. It means more Police Officers, more counselors, more social workers, more Community Violence interrupters to help resolve issues before they escalate into crimes. It means we go after the people who flood our streets with guns and the bad actors who decide to use them to further terrorize the communities. It means saving lives. Congress should in no way take away this funding thats already been appropriated. In fact a few weeks ago, the bipartisan United States conference of mayors, the National League of cities, National Association of counties, they all came out forcefully against efforts to reclaim American Rescue plan funds that have already been allocated to the states, cities and counties and tribes. This is not a time to turn our backs on Law Enforcement or our communities. Fourth, we discussed the need to support Community Violence intervention. These are local programs that utilize trusted messengers, Community Members and leaders, to work directly with people who are most likely to commit gun crimes or become victims of gun crimes. We know who they are. They intervene before its too late, these interrupters. Turn down the temperature. Halt the cycle of retaliation, connect people to social services. And it works. Community violence intervention programs have shown a reduction in violence up to 60 in many places. We heard from two Community Leaders that do this work. Eddie, thank you for coming from chicago. Quite frankly, it was impressive, your presentation. And devon from richmond, california. Eddie was formerly incarcerated for gun homicide and devon lost his brother to gun violence. Eddie worked as a violence interpreter. Now he provides a program that provides highrisk men with Cognitive Behavioral Therapy to help them react to the impulses by slowing down rather than following through on violence. It puts them in paying jobs to change their trajectory. The program has reduced shootings by 40 . Devon runs a program across california and six other states that enroll highrisk individuals in peace fellowships, complete with intensive mentoring and social services. Its saving lives. In sacramento, for example, 91 of participants stayed away from gun violence. States and cities should invest in American Rescue funds and those kinds of antiViolent Crime programs. Today im announcing that the white house will be working with 15 jurisdictions that are doing exactly that from baltimore to baton rouge to memphis to minneapolis to build up their Violence Community intervention programs starting this summer. Mayor Steve Allender from rapid city, south dakota, a republican and chief of police himself joined us today and will be part of the effort to help disrupt cycles of crime and violence in his community and nearby tribal communities. We need more mayors to follow and im going to be pushing for more of these proven programs which are part of the american jobs plan and my budget. Fifth and ill close with this. We talked about the lives we lost that have already been lost and the lives that we can save. We talked about how much pain and loss so many people have experienced and so many people have now accepted as their fate here in america. We have an opportunity to come together now as democrats and republicans, as fellow americans to fulfill the first responsibility of government and our democracy, to keep each other safe. Enough. That Means Congress passing sensible gun prevention, Violence Prevention Initiatives makes sense. Background checks, ban on Assault Weapons. Repeal on liability for gun manufacturers. It means the Senate Authorizing the violence against women act. My proudest legislative accomplishment, to close the socalled boyfriend loophole. Boyfriend and stalking loophole to keep guns out of the hands of abusers. We added a provision saying if you have a stay away order, you are stalking someone and youre told it has to stop, you cant own a weapon. Every single month an average of 57 women are shot and killed by an intimate partner. We can help stop that. It means confirming my outstanding nominee to lead the atf, david chipman. The top job has been unconfirmed for much too long. A career and distinguished atf official for 25 years, david is eminently qualified for the job that we desperately need to fill. As Vice President , i pushed hard to lift the freeze Gun Violence Research and to see the cdc. Why should they not be able to study gun violence and what causes it . But theres been a block on it. I want to unfreeze that. As president , my budget doubles funding for the Gun Violence Research at the cdc and the National Institutes of health. The nih, to study gun violence as a Public Health threat that it is. While we keep pushing there, Vice President harris and i also and our entire administration are continuing will continue taking action where we can. Lets stop the proliferation of ghost guns as we announced back in april with the Attorney General. We need to support the development of smart gun technologies. This doesnt affect responsible gun owners or Second Amendment rights. It helps keep guns out of the hands of people who shouldnt have them in the first place, from a child who actually picks up a picks it up to a burglar or violent criminal trying to steal it and use it. We need to keep building on the gun violence and Crime Prevention strategy were laying out today. Folks, this shouldnt be a red or bluish you. Its an american issue. Were not changing the constitution, were enforcing it, being reasonable. Were taking on the bad actors doing bad and Dangerous Things in our communities and to our country. Talk to most responsible gun owners and hunters. Theyll tell you theres no possible justification for having a hundred rounds in a magazine of a gun. Like ive said before, what do you think the deer are wearing kevlar vests . Responsible gun owners will tell you that there are too many people today who are able to buy a gun but shouldnt be able to buy a gun and these kinds of reasonable reforms have overwhelming support from the American People, including gun owners. The bottom line is this, lets show the world and show ourselves that democracy works. That we can come together as one nation. We can do this and save lives. So thank you. God bless you all and may god protect our troops. And again i thank you all for participating. But the bad news for yall is im coming back. I need your continued help. So very, very much. General, thank you. Mr. President , are you Still Holding out hope that congress can pass another Assault Weapons ban . I never give up hope. How do you feel about the bipartisan Infrastructure Deal thats been released . Ill tell you that when i get the final numbers tonight. Mr. President , what do you think is the most effective thing government can do to change the mindset of those that feel compelled to pull the trigger of these guns . By being engaged in a whole range of programs we talked today, everything from Mental Health programs to engaging people early on and letting them know theres other options. Making sure that when a child is young, they have access to a real education, they get started off on the right foot. Making sure when someone gets out of prison, theyre not denied Public Housing, they dont have to go back under the bridge where they were living before, this theyre able to get help for health care, et cetera. And reengaging them in the neighborhood, giving them some hope, some opportunity. And in the meantime, making sure that those folks who are taking advantage of them by taking advantage of their situation are in fact held accountable. Do you think its time to reform the filibuster . President biden fielding a few questions there following detailed remarks on the rise in Violent Crime across this country and the reforms his administration is enact ing to support state and local policing, to crack down on gun sales and rally support for the gun Safety Measures that hes promised sense he was a candidate. When we return, the most important story of the day that you havent seen yet. A rare and powerful and stunning rebuke from the nations top pentagon leader in the face, literally the face of Republican Disinformation And Culture War Attacks against americas military. That story is next. Dont go anywhere. Anywhere. Theyre pants, dog. No, these are pants, dog. No way. My pants are pants, dog. Pizza on a bagel we can all agree with that. Uhm whatever those are, theyre not pants. [ ding ] tonight. Ill be eating Cheesy Cauliflower Pizza with extra broccolini. My tuuuurrrrn tonight. Ill be eating Cheesy Cauliflower Pizza and yummy broccolini doorbell rings thanks. doorbell rings thank you. Is that my leotard . No. Yes. Ehh, you can keep it. Welcome to allstate. You already pay for car insurance, why not take your home along for the ride . Allstate. Here, better protection costs a whole lot less. Youre in good hands. Click or call to bundle today. Keeping your Oysters Business growing youre in good hands. Has you swamped. You need to hire. I need indeed indeed you do. The moment you sponsor a job on indeed you get a shortlist of quality candidates from a resume data base claim your seventyfivedollar credit when you post your first job at indeed. Com promo this is the sound of change. Its the sound of low cash mode from pnc bank giving you the options and extra time needed to help you avoid an overdraft fee. Low cash mode on virtual wallet from pnc bank. One way were making a difference. Brother against brother. Low cash mode on virtual wallet from pnc bank. Well, this should be interesting. [ grunting ] ive spent my entire life in your shadow. And now, you spend the rest of yours livin in mine. I aint going anywhere little brother. It is the most dramatic story of the day today. Its a story that represents todays Starkish Clash between good and sinister, and it happened in a House Armed Services Committee Meeting covered by few reporters. In that hearing, the nations top military leader, general mark milley, offers a blazing rebuke of gop disinformation and politicization of the United States military. Were going to show you milleys remarks which were a response to a question from alleged child sex trafficker matt gaetz. Here they are. I want to understand white rage and im white. I want to understand it. So what is it that caused thousands of people to assault this building and try to overturn the constitution of the United States of america. What caused that . I want to find that out. I want to maintain an open mind here and i do want to analyze it. Its important that we understand that because our soldiers, airmen, sailors, marines and guardians come from the American People so its important that the leaders now and in the future do understand it. Ive read karl marx and ive read lenin. That doesnt make me a communist. So what is wrong with having some situational understanding about the country for which we are here to defend. I personally find it offensive that we are accusing the United States military, our general officers, our Noncommissioned Officers, are being, quote, woke or Something Else because were studying some theories that are out there. That was started at Harvard Law School years ago and it proposed that there were laws in the United States prior to the civil war that led to a Power Differential with africanamericans that were threequarters of a human being. Then we had a civil war and Emancipation Proclamation to change it. So look, i do want to know and i respect your service and you and i are both green berets but i want to know and it matters to our discipline and the cohesion of this military. Wow. The chairman of the joint chiefs there smacking down an ugly attempt to smear the military as woke. Milley a sermon on antiracism and prointellectualism. It was one of the most forthright rebukes of the right wings brazen attacks on the military which include comments like this. So weve got new hair styles and maternity flight suits. Pregnant women are going to fight our wars. Its a mockery of the u. S. Military. If youre wondering whether our Military Leadership has gone woke, you can consider that settled for G The Pentagon is the yale Faculty Lounge but with Cruise Missiles and that should concern you. Other attacks by the gop centered on the standdown of the u. S. Military after january 6th to take stock of extremism in its own ranks which brings us to Secretary Austin when matt gaetz probed him. I dont know what the issue of Critical Race Theory is and what the relevance here with the department. We do not teach Critical Race Theory. We dont embrace Critical Race Theory. I think thats a spurious conversation. And so we are focused on Extremist Behaviors and not ideology, not peoples thoughts, not peoples political orientation. Behaviors is what were focused on. And one final point and thanks for your anecdotal input, but i would say that i have gotten ten times that amount of input, 50 times that amount of input on the other side that have said, hey, were glad to have had the ability to have a conversation with ourselves and with our leadership. And thats what we need. Joining our conversation, author and distinguished professor at vanderbilt university, michael eric dyson. Also joining us msnbc contributor tim miller, whos a writer at large for the bulwark and former rnc spokesman. So, professor, first a good day for pushing back. A tragic day that our elected officials on one side of the aisle are using congressional hearings to push fox news segments. It is utterly reprehensible but boy m squared, mark milley, a general pushed back in a poignant fashion. Ive read mao say tongue im not a communist. If you read a comic book, are you a comic . The point is this man says we should be openminded. He encouraged them to study what Critical Race Theory is. He knew its roots better than most of them. He knew it was rooted at Harvard Law School with the late great derek bell. Of course now professor kimberly crenshaw. All Critical Race Theory is saying is that its not about individual acts of bigotry or bias or racism, it is a systemic and Institutional Network that should be somehow discerned and dismantled. Lets not point the finger at individual White Brothers and sisters and say, aha, we caught you. Lets look at a system that produces and reproduces the pathology of bigotry. Isnt this what weve been saying after george floyd . We dont want to point the finger at Derek Chauvin as an individual, we want to talk about Police Forces that recreate the same pathogen that is unleashed in the body politic. So the misunderstanding about Critical Race Theory by the way, there aint no problem with being woke, its better than being asleep at the wheel. Lets all be awake, sensitive to and alive to the differences, the virtues, the values, the contradictions and the disagreements that we have so that we can arrive at an understanding of what democracy is. But what he did today was so extremely important. And even giving matt gaetz credit as a green beret, he says i am as well, and i find it offensive that you would try to impugn the integrity of the military with this attempt to smear them. It was a remarkable defense of openmindedness and free thinking in america which ostensibly is the right and prerogative and bully pulpit of the right wing that so often tries to undermine it. Youre making me want to rewind it and play it again. Im going to ask them to do that. I want to follow up with you, professor, on one more thing. He talks about white rage. And he says i want to understand white rage and im a white guy. Yes. Plus one, by the way, i do too. But he makes a really important point. He says i want to understand why thousands of them stormed this building. Right, right. And i want to understand why white rage drove them to overthrow the constitution. I mean i think what he didnt say is why dont you . Right, no. Well, it was implicit. If people are intelligent enough, let he who has ears hear. So the point or she who has ears hear. So the reality is that yes, why dont we want to understand white rage . Because we saw it in action. As Secretary Austin said, its not about ideological contestation or battling over interpretation, its about action. So he removed it from the sphere of if its right wing or left wing. Look at the manifestation of the rage. The rage that was out of control. The rage that led people to hurt Police Officers. The right wing, the Conservative Junta is often speaking about love and appreciation for, you know, offices of the peace, who keep the peace. Officers of this United States of america who stand with the backing of the constitution to protect, to preserve the calmity of this nation and yet these people cant even protect these Police Officers, nor can they impanel a commission to try to study it. So they are not interested or curious about that white rage because that white rage is boiling in their blood. Its overflowing in the coffers of the American Senate and the United States congress. And unfortunately, people like, you know, General Milley are too often too rare in this society to say lets just out of a sense of compassionate curiosity about our fellow citizens try to understand what drove them to such Lunatic Fringe behavior as Seymour Lipsit would call it, to suggest that we need to take a serious inventory of whats going on in our nation. Again, its been so deeply politicized that we cant even have common sense. I want to do two things. I may turn out to be wrong, but i think that what happened in that room was a big deal. Im going to play it again. First, were just getting in some reporting. This happened this afternoon. There are no Newspaper Stories written about it yet. Apparently milley was addressing someone else on the committee that was a green beret. Matt gaetz wasnt a green beret. Let me watch it again. General milley. I want to understand white rage and im white. And i want to understand it. So what is it that caused thousands of people to assault this building and try to overturn the constitution of the United States of america. What caused that . I want to find that out. I want to maintain an open mind here and i do want to analyze it. Its important that we understand that because our soldiers, air american, sailors, marines, guardians, they come from the American People. So its important that the leaders now and in the future do understand it. Ive read maosay tongue, ive read lenin. That doesnt make me a communist. So what is wrong with having some situational understanding about the country which we are here to defend. I personally find it offensive that we are accusing the United States military, our general officers, our commissioned Noncommissioned Officers of being, quote, woke or Something Else because were studying some theories that are out there. That was started at Harvard Law School years ago and it proposed that there were laws in the United States prior to the civil war that led to a Power Differential with africanamericans that were threequarters of a human being when this country was formed. We had a civil war and Emancipation Proclamation to change it. It took 100 years to change that. So look, i do want to know. I respect your service and you and i are both green berets but i want to know and it matters to our military and the discipline and cohesion of this military. So tim miller, this truth did not sit well with matt gaetz who made quite a face there. Yeah, i was glad you made that correction, nicolle, because i was coming in on hot for that. Matt gaetz is only if Florida State fraternity handed that out for keg stands. Matt gaetz has no respect for people that went to fight for this country, no matter what side of the partisan aisle theyre on. General milley served in the Trump Administration and was there and really had to apologize after he showed up with then President Trump at that horrific day in Lafayette Square when President Trump and general and Attorney General barr and others cleared the square of peaceful protesters. So this is not some like woke military member that joe biden plucked out of harvard or whatever and put into the administration. This is somebody that has served both parties and served his country and i think made his position very clear. I cant say it in i any better he did. One thing i do want to give a little more context on is why he had to make that statement, why he was there. It wasnt just that brat, matt gaetz. It also was dan crenshaw and tom cotton had started this effort where they are asking for whistleblowers inside the military to report to them, not to their commander, but to these members of congress if they see any instances of wokism in the military among their commanders or people at the pentagon. I just think that that is an astonishing and horrific undermining of General Milley, undermining of our military. I think if you just put this shoe on the other foot, i want you to imagine what tom cotton and dan crenshaw would say if it was Raphael Warnock and jon ossoff who were asking Military Members to whistleblow to them about Maga Ideology or nationalist ideology among their commanders. I mean they would be calling for Military Tribunals to go after democrats to try to undermine our Military Leadership like that. Tom cotton and dan crenshaw think that they can just do that because of their privilege. And i think, frankly, this is the last thing on this. If there is any ideology to be concerned about in the military, it is that Maga Ideology. There were 120 former generals and admirals that signed a letter saying that our election was fraudulent. Do you remember that . That was really chilling. And i think that if that is true among these highranking former individuals, obviously thats happening internally. So clearly this is something that milley is dealing with on both sides. As he demonstrated today, hes more than capable of doing it without matt gaetz rolling his eyes at him. Tim, i want to follow up on Something Else. Who may have more culpability than the professor for the rot on top of corruption on top of rot in the Republican Party, and i thought milley tried to do a few things to maybe disinfect that. I think taking on antiintellectualism, someone has to do it. Milley is busy. Someone else should take it on. But the most potent attacks that republicans launch are made by the most elite people. Josh hawley is an elites elite, but their whole song book is predicated on the fact that voters are too dumb to google any of them and these elites, these overeducated elites from some of the countrys best, i dont know if you want to call them the best, but most prominent universities make antiintellectual arguments. And this whole defense of reading, of Understanding Mao but not being a communist and reading lenin. Someone should have done that years ago and maybe we wouldnt be here today. And i think that, frankly, a lot of democrats could maybe learn something from that approach that milley took today. I think thats exactly right. I think sometimes, sadly, this isnt how it should be, but in order to pop these antiintellectual, antielite bubbles, you need somebody like a serviceman, like somebody like General Milley who can say, you know, this isnt just for the frufru coastal elite ivyivys. You need to be smart about the world, learn history and read books. I think thats why that was so powerful today. If you just look at the clips that you played at the beginning of whats happening over on the other cable network, they are just leaning into these Culture War Battles and trying to make it seem as if our military is becoming weak or effeminate because, god forbid, women might be serving in it or gays might be serving in it or transgender soldiers can now serve in it after the trump ban. They are going to continue to pick at that. I think its a powerful Political Tool in addition to being correct to have somebody like General Milley be a face of pushing back on that and saying actually, no, its you guys who are the weak ones that arent able to listen to these contrarian or alternate ideologies and not be able to handle that and make a decision for yourself about whats best for our Military Readiness and what we need to know to understand these threats coming from within the country in addition to abroad. Professor dyson, i want to give you the last word. Theres Something Else about this story that to me makes it feel lasting and important. We dont need to grope around for any more evidence that for the Republican Party, nothing is sacred. Not the chain of command, as tim is pointing out. Cotton and others are looking for people to go straight to them, not up their chain of command. Not the service of the United States military. Not the men and women who give their lives to protect our democracy, and not the democracy itself that they are so eager to see move in the wrong direction. No, absolutely right. I agree with brother tim in speaking about the maggots im sorry, the maga. That is so corrosive in this political moment. Can i tell you, nicolle, that as a black person, as a black intellectual, as a black person with a ph. D. From Princeton University whos taught at several ivy league schools, isnt it interesting before black and brown and minoritized and racialized and women could get in, those were the gold standards, harvard, princeton, vanderbilt, university of north carolina, on and on. When we get in, all of a sudden it becomes a benchmark of your being a sellout. So you tell us were too dumb to get in. Then when we get in, you tell us were too much of an egghead to identify with the common people. Im confused. Which one is it . When they talked about intellectualism in america, he was talking about the fact that they chose eisenhower over, you know, a more wellheeled and thoughtful democrat who was thinking seriously about this nation and yet they called him an egghead. A pointed head intellectual. Now, im critical of certain distancing rhetorics that intellectuals can carry out. Im certainly critical of the obscurist language we can use. Jesse jackson once told me if you Say Something i cant understand, thats a failure of your education, not mine. So i get that. But i resent as an intellectual and as a black person in america that we have taken the brunt of antiintellectualism. We have borne the brunt of being disloyal to this nation. And we have stood by to see mediocre mealymouthed snowflake white men who are incapable of taking critique, who are willing to dole out infamous are you pud yagss of the humanity of the other and yet they call us snowflakes and they are the biggest flakes of snow to hit the earth. They are incapable of criticism. They are incapable of tolerating difference. Theyre scared of, oh, my god, Critical Race Theory is going to kill your mother. They are not critical, they have no race and dont understand theory. Yet they are allowed to wax eloquently about the means and limits of rationality in this country and they couldnt save themselves if the world depended on it. I am tired of hearing mediocre white men take to their pool pits to excore yat women and trans people and every other folk that aint them. It is time that we in america take back in country for certain. And to seize the reins of authority so that rhetorics of compassion, discourses of empathy and love in the most radical sense possible would prevail. And that means we read everything. I read rightwing stuff every day. I aint no rightwinger. I try to understand and get beneath what it is that drove that rage but it doesnt make me full of rage. So i think its necessity for us to be openminded. And women and people of color and sexual minorities can lead the way because the white guys are flubbing it up in big fashion, and matt gaetz and josh hawley and Mitch Mcconnell and mr. Manchin and all of them are in the same boat. Michael eric dyson, tim miller, i thought General Milley would be the best thing i saw today. You guys came very, very close. Thanks for spending some time with us on this story. When we return, why is Attorney General Merrick Garland handing the investigation of the very, very long list of abuses in the trump era doj to the one major watchdog trump didnt fire. We watch that question next. Deadline white house continues after a quick break. Dont go anywhere. After a quick break. Dont go anywhere. Ce, or necessity. We can explore uncharted waters, and not only make new discoveries, but get there faster, with better outcomes. With app, cloud and anywhere workspace solutions, vmware helps Companies Navigate change meeting them where they are, and getting them where they want to be. Faster. Vmware. Welcome change. [sfx revving trucks] pilot over radio here we go, lets do this. Pilot over radio right there, right there. [sfx revving trucks] pilot over radio g complete. How do you introduce the largerthanlife gmc yukon . With the worlds biggest tweet. The next generation gmc yukon. Premium thats made to be used. Wayfair has everything you need to make your home the next generation gmc yukon. Ready to seize the day. Make it look like, its from another planet. Make your new sink work a little harder. Make your home everything you need it to be. And make it yours. Oscar will love that. [ bark ] however you make it, make your home like no other. Vo the world is racing to create the Clean Energy Jobs that will solve the climate crisis. President biden has a plan to make sure america wins that race. Biden doing nothing is not an option. The world is not waiting. If we act to save the planet, we can create millions of good paying jobs. And i want to put the world on notice, america is back. The competition of the 21st century, the future, will be built right here in america. Doing nothing is not an option. Congressional investigations and news accounts the last few months. We know the Justice Department appeared to heeded trumps calls to investigate his enemies. The department functioned as the expresident wanted to. And despite mounting concerns of Unanswered Questions about how deep they went at the Justice Department. Mayor garland ruled out a fuel investigation at doj and is leaving and cleaning out the department to one of the few Inspector Generals. Mayor garland stopped short of saying that he would under take a comprehensive review of trump era Justice Department officials and their actions. Joining our conversation is barbara mcquaid. My question is really this question of what trump called for four years to prosecute of his enemies appear to have happened in the congressional release of documents in the revelation that his five most public enemies, cnn, Washington Post and New York Times and adam schiff all turned against him were all spied on. I dont know if it is fair to say the one ig that trump liked. It is one ig that trump did not fire. I dont think there is any reasons to doubt the integrity of michael horowitz, he came during the Obama Administration and been there ever since. It is the idea that mayor garland is refraining from investigating the politicalization of the Justice Department. The Inspector General investigates fraud, waste and abuse. You have to have predicated conduct, thats something specific to look into. We have seen that with the subpoenas to the media and members of congress and the election interference. I think that hes wellequipped to investigate that and he can make criminal referrals if he finds evidence that crimes were committed. Keep watching barbara, thank you very much for spending some time with us and adding context to the new reporting. The beat with our good friend with Jason Johnson and ari melber is after this quick break. Dont go anywhere. S after this k break. Dont go anywhere. Hnology is easier to use. Barriers dont stand a chance. Thats why well stop at nothing to deliver our technology asaservice. Welcome to allstate. You already pay for car insurance, why not take your home along for the ride . Allstate. Here, better protection costs a whole lot less. Youre in good hands. Click or call to bundle today. Hooh. That spin class was brutal. Well you can try using the buicks massaging seat. Oohh yeah, thats nice. Can i use apple carplay to put some music on . Sure, its wireless. Pick something we all like. Ok. Hold on. Whats your buicks wifi password . buickenvision2021. oh, you should pick something stronger. Thats really predictable. Thats a really tight spot. Dont worry. I used to hate parallel parking. [all together] me too. Hey. You really outdid yourself. Yes, we did. The allnew buick envision. An suv built around you. All of you. Welcome to the beat, i am Jason Johnson in for ari melber. We have a lot to get to tonight. I will talk to a da prosecutor who says Trump Organization and weisselberg playing russian roulette. The gop lost Voting Rights. Senate republicans blocked Voting Rights reform. Activists marching to the Supreme Court to the office of joe manchin. Multiple arrests. Protesters telling manchin who keeps calling for bipartisanship to get tougher in the fight against mcconnell. What i am not saying from manchin is the higher sense of pu