still with him. >> looking forward to that interview and all the conversations on "a.m. joy" coming up from columbia. >> you look at the debate prep footage, how much work is that? >> it's tremendous. when you're spending hours a day for weeks on end in that kay, from the general election, you're not doing other things, you're not shaking hands, you're not raising money. some people don't take it seriously. the thing we're not talking about is there are going to be ten podiums, but there will be an 1 1th player on the field. it's going to be donald trump, live-tweeting. and to go back to biden, we did not think would be successful at this point because he was an older white male who had been in washington for a long time. people are giving him a pass to some extent. think he's going to be the best against trump. what happens when you're watching these debates and there's someone else who defines