with me former u.s. attorney joyce vance and former federal prosecutor john flannery. joyce, i'm going to start with you on this one. could the house democrats really do a lot more to help mueller, or is this really about messaging here from them? >> no, i think that there is substance behind this. we've already seen that it's possible to indict folks for lying to a committee, whether it's in the house or the senate. and roger stone looks like someone mueller has been carefully examining. there are other people who as additional house subcommittees go through testimony that was taken in front of them, for instance, the standing select committee on intelligence, they may provide mueller with additional people to take a hard look at for perjury charges. >> so let's look at that, john. we know michael cohen has been charged with perjury. >> exactly. >> for lying to congress. so do we expect mueller to go after others here? >> well, i think so. and one of the things that we learned december 7th when he was brought up on these other