that campaign she certainly earned the trust after the campaign about her performance which is many many many people who support her and to michael and your point and everybody's point around the table, i'm not sure this is gaining traction of every day hard-working voters as it may be -- not to suggest that it's not important. i don't think that has the impact with voters that it may have with some of us around the table. >> the specifics don't matter to voters. the general themes of distrust of the clintons of slipperiness that does matter. and that does stick. that's why a guy like bernie sanders that goes out and tells it like it is resonates the way he does. >> the question is do you believe that she did something elicit illegal, wrong with these e-mails? i think the vast majority of americans based on her record in public service say, no. and that's what she's benefitting from. >> then how do you account for her trust numbers being so low? >> she's the only person in the democratic side. i it this press has a