number one recruiting tool in iraq and that it brought in droves of foreign fighters who killed american soldiers, hundreds if not thousands of american soldiers. and today there's press reporting, again, of another senior interrogator like myself. this one currently serving in afghanistan, who said just the mere fact that these former administration officials are on tv talking about how they would still torture is helping the taliban and al qaeda to continue to recruit new fighters. so this is going to continue to have a cost in american lives. >> so you're saying in a round about way tonight that the former bushies who are out on the talking heads right now are actually hurting the troops. >> i'm not saying it in a round about way, ed. i'm saying this is fact. department of defense tracked these statistics in iraq. it was a fact that the majority of foreign fighters who came there were recruited because of our policy of torture and abuse. and it's undisputable that they made up 90% of the suicide bombers and that that cost us