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as nervous as i was about this whole process the one thing i didn t lose sleep over was the possibility of taking bin laden out. justice was done. and i think that anyone who would question that the perpetrator of mass murder on american soil didn t deserve what he got, needs to have their head examined. head examination, i totally agree. let me bring in the host of grit tv and free speech tv. what was that comment? was that a shot to those who were saying oh, gosh we might have fallen off the moral high ground here? how did you take that? ed, i hate to break your rhythm here but this is one of those heads the president thinks needs examining. good, tell me why. i m one of those who says, you can say a lot of things about what happened sunday night. you can say it was justified. but justice is not the word. it wasn t what we stand up for ....
these are not torture. these are techniques that we know work. that debate is over. it worked. it got the intelligence. it wasn t torture. it was legal. all false. let s bring in the president of the foundation for democracy, defense of democracy s cliff may and also former cia officer jack rice. gentlemen, good to have you with us tonight. jack, ms. cheney is obviously referring to waterboarding there. she says it worked. it wasn t torture. it was legal. what about that? well, ed, thanks for having me on the program. first of all, it was torture and guess what? the reason the bush administration determined that it was legal was it hand picked the lawyers who had said it was legal and asked them then if it was. it is not exactly shocking but if you ask whether it had an impact it did. it had a negative impact. i m quite confident like your prior guest matthew alexander that it made this much more difficult, it took much longer, and i think osama bin laden ....
Do more than one thing at a time. now just like her father liz cheney is questioning why president obama won t use waterboarding. when she was asked a question about so-called enhance the interrogation, she said this. these are not torture. these are techniques that we know work. that debate is over. it worked. it got the intelligence. it wasn t torture. it was legal. all false. let s bring in the president of the foundation for democracy, defense of democracy s cliff may and also former cia officer jack rice. gentlemen, good to have you with us tonight. jack, ms. cheney is obviously referring to waterboarding there. she says it worked. it wasn t torture. it was legal. what about that? well, ed, thanks for having me on the program. first of all, it was torture and guess what? the reason the bush administration determined that it was legal was it hand picked the lawyers who had said it was legal and asked them then if it was. it is not exactly shocking but if you ask whether it ....
Would have been found earlier but for the fact that torture was involved and what it did throughout the middle east. cliff, would you defend waterboarding on all the points liz cheney made? i m going to defend my own position if you don t mind, ed, and start with this. sure, sure. that is to say, look. in this particular instance we do know that the seed of intelligence that grew the vine that led us to find osama bin laden came about through coercive techniques of interrogation. in one instance waterboarding, the other two instances sleep deprivation and probably psychological humiliation. a second i think it s important to have a little context here and that is thousands of combatants have been taken into custody. about 100 have ended up in the cia program. about 30 have suffered any coercive, enhanced interrogation techniques. only three individuals have been waterboarded. i also think it s important that general hyden the head of the cia said more than half of the intellige ....
Policy. you will never hear former vice president dick cheney talk about the fact that it was al qaeda s number one recruiting tool in iraq and that it brought in droves of foreign fighters who killed american soldiers, hundreds if not thousands of american soldiers. and today there s press reporting, again, of another senior interrogator like myself. this one currently serving in afghanistan, who said just the mere fact that these former administration officials are on tv talking about how they would still torture is helping the taliban and al qaeda to continue to recruit new fighters. so this is going to continue to have a cost in american lives. so you re saying in a round about way tonight that the former bushies who are out on the talking heads right now are actually hurting the troops. i m not saying it in a round about way, ed. i m saying this is fact. department of defense tracked these statistics in iraq. it was a fact that the majority ....