employees will flock toward these cheaper plans because they're cheaper and more affordable and that's what's happening here. >> and they have limited benefits? >> they have very limbed benefits. it caps payouts at $2,000 per year. you have a limited number of doctor visits, a limited number of prescriptions. and at one point, 4 million people were under these plans and the health care law said to eliminate all of these. so it's a real departure from what we were sold in 2010 when the law was passed. >> if the employees opt for the bare bones plans r they subject to penalties? >> that's the thing. when you add in the fee, which is 1% of your income with a minimum of $95, if you add that in to the bare bones health care plan, you're still significantly less than what it would cost to get to those traditional obamacare plans. so the fee is not much of a disincentive for people to shy away from these bare bones plans. >> people probably come to you and ask for advice about how to handle this situation. what do you tell them?