the congress can't find some common ground? >> absolutely. if we have a second recession, in the as sense of a deal on the fiscal cliff, we'll certainly give us a recession. we're not likely to rebound again. the definition of a depression is when you have a downturn and you can't get back up. it doesn't have any capacity to regenerate the economy. jon: well, this is the greatest nation in the world. why wouldn't we have the ability to pull out of another recession? >> well, this last recession was very deep and severe. and a lot of folks still haven't recovered. they run down the ira's, keough's and savings. they used to use that money to buy cars which got the economy going. this next time around they won't have savings. there are a lot of families with one earner and used to be two and earning a lot less wages. if we go down again, to 12 to 13% unemployment there won't be any rye serve capacity. jon: what about stimulus? the president would say