who are not so fond of him. >> bill: and you come down in the political arena where? >> well, i think it's hard to tell what rick perry really is. is he a conservative or not? as you mentioned, the 27 billion dollar budget deficit, something texas had never had before, it was accumulated on his watch, he was out of the state during much of that time. denied it would be that much. he said at one point, it might be $10 or $15 billion. then when he finally came down and faced it, he blamed in large part the comptroller, susan combs for the deficit. our unemployment under rick perry, when rick perry became governor, texas unemployment was at 4%. in his double -- on his watch. it's now 8.2%. >> bill: but under perry, texas has one of the best job creations, if not the best in the country during the recession.