and, you know, on the issue of ann couture, you say on white house messaging, that's a gift to president trump. >> when she says that. >> when she says that. and, you know, he doesn't have to go full triangulation of bill clinton, but, you know, what my former boss used to tell me is you know you're doing something right when both sides are criticizing you. the far right and the far left. he's got a place here, but he seems so intent on either pleasing his base or so afraid of disappointing his base, and that's a characteristic of the whole presidency. that he only seems to govern for the people who voted for him. >> the empathy thing is fascinating to me also. that's the wildcard here if the the difference between this shutdown and other shutdowns is that you have a president who is not perceived as having empathy for the people who are suffering from the shutdown and that's having an impact. errol, another development over the weekend, the vice president of the united states went out