so that's his other point that he makes that he got wrong as evidence of not really having advance knowledge. >> there's a lot of information nobody else had at that point, and it's so kind of circular. as van says, lies and lies and lies. >> julian assange did come out on june 16th, i think, on itv and say, i've got e-mails of hillary clinton. we're going to be dumping, and it's going to be really huge. so roger stone doesn't actually start publicly talking about e-mails or anything from wikileaks until about a month after julian assange has already come forward, which surprised me when i was doing the research. >> but with a level of specificity that could be completely made up, right, or not, right? the level of specificity, i think very few other people had or were talking about. and, again, notwithstanding all this categorical denials, he was in communication with them. now, the communication is like a little bit of like bug off, buddy, or you're not helping us. but there was communication. and that and the date, i just think if we really pick through